It’s been largely quiet from the Cardinals since the team inked longtime division rival Willson Contreras to a five-year contract, officially tabbing him as the heir to franchise icon Yadier Molina. Filling the void left by Molina was clearly the top priority for the Cards this winter, though they were also loosely tied to the market for the top available shortstops and some free-agent pitchers.
With Contreras now signed, a look up and down the roster in St. Louis reveals a strong group that’s likely to contend for another NL Central crown in 2023. The Cardinals could use another left-handed reliever — Andrew Chafin, Matt Moore, Zack Britton and Brad Hand are among the still-available names — and perhaps they could stand to find a more potent backup to Contreras. Broadly speaking, however, it’s a deep and talented roster with a nice group of relievers, plenty of rotation depth and a good bit of positional flexibility, thanks to the versatility of players like Tommy Edman and Brendan Donovan.
All that said, it also doesn’t feel as though the Cardinals are done this winter. For one thing, their entire rotation, aside from lefty Steven Matz, will reach free agency next winter. The Cards could also stand to add another bat to the mix; while young sluggers Juan Yepez and Nolan Gorman offer upside as candidates who can spend some time at DH, neither has quite established himself as a proven big league bat just yet.
In left field, the Cardinals have a quality option in Tyler O’Neill — if he’s healthy. A shoulder impingement and two hamstring strains limited O’Neill to 96 games and quite possibly contributed to a diminished .228/.308/.392 batting line. In center, 24-year-old Dylan Carlson is a former top prospect whose numbers were solid in ’22 but not quite what they were in 2021. Lars Nootbaar had a breakout second half in right field. It’s a talented trio, but not to the extent of the Cardinals’ star-studded infield. Moveover, the Cardinals have other young outfield options waiting in the wings, with Alec Burleson already having made his debut, Moises Gomez all but ready on the heels of a huge minor league season, and uber-prospect Jordan Walker also looming in Triple-A.
It feels like, for all the young talent the Cards have, there’s room for at least one more notable bat to be plugged into the lineup. And, with so many starting pitchers set to reach the open market (or, in Adam Wainwright’s case, retire) next offseason, the Cardinals would probably love to add some controllable pitching.
Looking through the Cardinals’ depth chart, there’s virtually no player who could both be conceivably available and also unattainable for the Cards. The Redbirds have prospects and young, MLB-ready talent at virtually any position, which sets them up for innumerable trade possibilities, be it with the Marlins or another club.
Let’s run through some of the talent they could dangle when seeking an impact bat or high-end pitcher to slot into the rotation:
A Top Catching Prospect
Ivan Herrera was viewed as the Cardinals’ catcher of the future for the past several years, but with Contreras now signed for a half decade, a cloud has been cast on his role with the club. Herrera could still function as a high-quality backup to Contreras, and Contreras is a good enough hitter that he could slot in as a DH on days he’s not behind the plate. Perhaps that opens the door for Herrera to carve out a larger role than most backup catchers might hold, but this is a 22-year-old who just batted .268/.374/.396 against older Triple-A competition and ranks as the game’s No. 84 prospect over at Baseball America. He’s a nice safety net and a potentially very overqualified backup to Contreras… but he’d also be highly appealing to any club lacking a long-term option behind the plate.
Outfielders Galore
As mentioned above, any of O’Neill, Carlson or Nootbaar would hold appeal to other clubs, albeit to varying extents. O’Neill has just two years of club control remaining and is coming off a down season … but he also mashed at a .286/.352/.560 clip and clubbed 34 homers while playing strong defense in 2021. Plenty of teams are looking for a righty bat and might be intrigued to gamble on a rebound. Both Carlson (who was mentioned in Juan Soto rumors) and Nootbaar (who was reportedly of interest to the Jays and A’s in their talks about catching trades this offseason) offer even more club control and plenty of long-term upside.
Trading anyone from that group would absolutely require the Cardinals to receive big league talent in another area: be it a more impactful, established offensive presence to slot into the outfield or perhaps a quality starting pitcher with multiple years of club control remaining. In either instance, any of O’Neill, Carlson or Nootbaar would probably be just one of multiple players moved as part of the return for an established big leaguer.
Beyond their stable of current MLB outfielders, the Cards have Burleson, Gomez and Walker. Burleson, the No. 68 prospect on Baseball America’s Top 100 list, struggled in 53 plate appearances during last year’s MLB debut but posted a massive .331/.372/.532 slash in 109 Triple-A games. Gomez played 60 games apiece in Double-A and Triple-A, hitting a combined .294/.371/.624 with 39 home runs. Walker, a 2020 first-round pick who ranks among the sport’s top ten overall prospects on just about any publication, is perhaps the most “untouchable” of all the Cardinals’ young hitters. However, like Gomez and Burleson, he also offers a near-MLB replacement should the Cards move one of their current big league outfielders in a trade package. Walker was drafted as a third baseman, but Nolan Arenado’s presence means he’ll likely debut as an outfielder. After hitting .306/.388/.510 as a 20-year-old and one of the youngest players in Double-A, he’s probably not far off.
Young Infielders
The St. Louis infield is mostly set with Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt at the corners, Tommy Edman at shortstop and Brendan Donovan at second base. It’s unlikely the Cards would move anyone from that group, though if you wanted to argue that Donovan, the third-place NL Rookie of the Year finisher, could be included in a package for an impact player, that’s at least loosely feasible. The A’s reportedly asked about him in talks for Sean Murphy, although perhaps the fact that the Cardinals balked at Oakland’s asking price tells us most of what we need to know about Donovan’s availability (or lack thereof).
It’s a strong group, and both Edman and Donovan can be deployed virtually anywhere on the diamond. Each played at least five positions in 2022 alone. Perhaps Donovan will ultimately settle into some type of super-utility role, but that’d require a step forward from another young infielder — which the Cardinals just so happen to possess.
Nolan Gorman didn’t exactly explode onto the scene in his rookie campaign, but he held his own with a .226/.300/.420 batting line and 14 homers in 313 plate appearances. Much of his production came early on and was followed by a strikeout-laden slump — he fanned in 32.3% of his plate appearances — but Gorman is another former top prospect who also tattooed Triple-A pitching in the form of a .275/.330/.585 output, including 16 home runs in just 188 plate appearances. Originally a third baseman, he shifted over to second base because of Arenado. He now has a fair bit of experience at both spots.
Down on the farm, 20-year-old Masyn Winn occupies the No. 56 spot on BA’s Top 100 list. Like Walker, he’s already spent a full season in Double-A. He didn’t hit quite as well, but his .258/.349/.432 output was league-average by measure of wRC+ (100), and like Walker, he was one of the league’s youngest players. BA lauds Winn for having “by far the strongest throwing arm in the minor leagues” and touts him as a plus-plus runner and gives him a chance to be an above-average defender at shortstop. Winn was drafted as a two-way player, but he’s only pitched one inning in pro ball.
Starting Pitching Prospects
It’s perhaps counterintuitive to have just mentioned how the Cardinals need controllable starting pitching and then tout a deep crop of quality pitching prospects from which they could trade. But attrition among pitching prospects is even greater than position players. That’s not to say those arms don’t have value — of course they do — but it’s easier to bank on those arms converting when hoping to fill one rotation spot. Hoping to fill three to four rotation spots with in-house prospects is nothing short of insanity.
The Cardinals aren’t short on intriguing arms, with Gordon Graceffo, Matthew Liberatore and Tink Hence all actively ranking, or having recently been ranked on various top-100 lists around the industry. Hence (No. 57) and Graceffo (66) are just a few spots apart on BA’s top 100 at the moment.
Both Liberatore and fellow lefty Zack Thompson (the No. 19 pick in 2019) have reached the Major Leagues already but have not yet established themselves. Liberatore posted ERAs north of 5.00 in both Triple-A and in 34 2/3 big league innings last season, but he’s still just 23 years old and has at least six years of club control — plus a pair of minor league option years remaining. Thompson threw an identical 34 2/3 Major League innings in 2022 but did so primarily out of the bullpen. He also pitched to a pristine 2.08 ERA, and while his 19.9% strikeout rate and 10.3% walk rate both leave something to be desired, he averages just shy of 95 mph with his heater and did rack up an impressive 53.7% ground-ball rate.
St. Louis has further depth in the form of righty Dakota Hudson, who’s been pushed out of their rotation but is a ground-ball machine with two years of club control remaining. Hudson has just a 4.31 ERA and 13.3% strikeout rate since returning from Tommy John surgery, and his once-blistering sinker averaged just 91.6 mph post-surgery. Still, he’s a ready-made fourth or fifth starter candidate with three option years remaining. Jake Woodford is cut from a similar cloth as a low-strikeout, ground-ball oriented pitcher who could slot into the back of a rotation, although he also posted a 2.23 ERA in 48 1/3 innings out of the St. Louis bullpen this past season (albeit with some good fortune on balls in play and a fluky-low home run rate).
Some of these arms will be earmarked for opportunities in the 2024 rotation, and there’s a good chance some will see their stock dip after an injury or a step back in performance. Still, their present-day value gives the Cardinals the opportunity to condense some of that talent into a trade for a more established player.
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Overall, the Cardinals’ wealth of young talent is remarkable for a perennially competitive team that hasn’t drafted higher than 18th overall in the past 15 years and, within the past four years, has pulled off trades for in-their-prime stars like Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado. It’s an excellent position in which to find themselves as an organization, but if there’s one “downside” (and I’m using that term loosely), it’s the timing of this surfeit of young talent.
The trade market, in general, is quite bleak right now. Miami’s quartet of available arms has dominated headlines, but there’s little else of substance on the market. The Pirates reportedly have a sky-high asking price on Bryan Reynolds that makes him unlikely to be moved in the first place, and one can only imagine they’d ask for even more from a division rival. There are certainly other names that could change hands between now and Opening Day, but the obvious candidates aren’t clear upgrades to the Cardinals. The Mariners have a pair of back-end starters (Chris Flexen, Marco Gonzales), while the Twins (Max Kepler) and A’s (Seth Brown) have some outfielders who could be available. There’s just not a ton to be excited about on the trade market right now.
That shouldn’t stop the Cardinals’ front office from trying to force other teams’ hands and convince them to part with starting pitching help or perhaps a slugging bat that might not be a natural trade candidate at first glance. Failing that, the Cardinals are as well positioned as just about any team in the league to swing a deal with the Marlins whenever Miami finally make what feels like an inevitable trade.
Anybody think the Cubs have a chance of winning the NL Central?
Nope, cant see it. Cards and Brewers still look like top dogs in nl central.
– Brewers
– Cubs
– Cardinals
Cubs can certainly win the Central
In 2024, yes.
Yes. 100% believe they will.
100% chance they won’t
Just because your the prom queen in a class of 40, doesn’t mean your pretty and that’s what the Cardinals were last year and they were prom queen runner ups the previous past two seasons. The cubs will be better and will be willing to make the in season moves that Mozalak will never doz
Your not the brightest crayon in the box are you sparky!! Your flubs don’t stand a chance, they will be fighting the pirates at the bottom the of
the division.
Not a cubs fan. Even with the Cardinals since the Herzog days. I just don’t drink kool-aid and watch any baseball that’s in TV not just Cardinal games.
Love how everyone “hates” on the Cards… lol could you imagine what they could do with Cubs big market $$? We would never lose. Bottom line, cards organization is head and shoulders above the cubs and most MLB teams.their farm system was just rated by multiple sources as one of the very best in baseball. And that’s all been done while they had a winning record for many many years. I’m a cards fan first bit also a fan of baseball and what they have done with their system is very impressive
I think with Justin Steele and Taillon having great years and Belli and Hosmer or Mancini having bounce back seasons it is possible but I def like our chances next year much better.
as a die hard cards fan the cubs are not a team to sleep on, i see the cubs as a 79 to 85+ team this year, but a lot has to go the cubs way. the cubs have improved this year i don’t know if it’s enough to win the nlc a lot of things have to go the cubs way but there not a team you can overlook. imo the cubs are making the right moves very similar to 14/15 but i think 24 is when we see the cubs as legit.
I like some of the cubs moves but the reality is that they lost a player (Contreras) that is way better than anyone that they signed. Hosmer stinks, Mancini is just ok, Bellinger has been bad for two seasons in a row so the Dodgers simply let him walk, and Taillon has an injury history dating back to his time in Pittsburgh. Yes they signed a lot of guys, but are any of them really that good?
The Cubs signed a lot of guys, but the only one with well above average numbers last season was Dansby, who’s not known for his consistency. Taillon has consistently been average. Eric Hosmer is good for about 3-4 weeks before dissapearing. I don’t know if Bellinger will ever be the same again. If you can get his 2018 or 2020 self, he’ll be fine, but there’s the very distinct possibility he produces another sub-.700 OPS season. I would love to see Mancini return to his 2019 self, but after the last two seasons, and considering the juiced ball no longer a factor, my hopes are not high.
@mlb1225 i feel for you and all pirates fans, your a very astute follower of bb and a die hard fan, but you have an owner that doesn’t care and just wants the “free money”. i fully believe that once would sell out every night if you all felt like the team was actually trying and build a system and actually pay for players. heck i’ve watched pens and steelers games when they were dogs but fans still showed up because they were putting in the effort, unfortunately i don’t see that with the pirates and i feel like your going to be stuck with a perennial loser with glimmers of hope until you get new ownership
I don’t agree with that. While Nutting may be cheap, even though he is top half in net worth. Cherrington has been doing a good job. Their youth looks good. They could be competitstsrting this year, but more likely next year. If they could start getting significantly higher attendance, with the $100+ tv revenue sharing money, Nutting may shock us and spend.
Definitely a chance in such a winnable division but I don’t see it happening. For whatever reason the Brewers chose to fold last season, we won pretty easily with an underperforming outfield and while he’s likely my favorite player ever, we probably could’ve benefited by having a random fan DH for Yadi.
Milwaukees acquisition of their Contreras is magical to me and their pitching is again going to be incredible. I don’t think the Cubs have done enough and while enormous amounts of “potential” is both our current blessing and curse, I still think we win the division by a decent margin.
For what it’s worth, I’m one of the hopefuls that our front office still has a trade or move left this off-season, so maybe that shows that I’m the delusional one!
@cardsfan21 imo your pretty spot on with your prediction, for me i’m airing on the side of caution thanks to 15, the cubs were meh first half then got hot and we’re damn good for about 4 years, where they failed was going all in after 16. this years cubs reminds me of 15 but they don’t have “win or go home” theo running the team the cubs might have the fo personnel that might be a team to look at for years to come. tbh i hope it pans out for the cubs, i have no love for the cubs but who wants to see meaningless games between chi and stl, i want both teams to be good so when my birds beat them or if your a cubs fan and you beat us we can at least say (bleep) yeah we just beat our rival and there a good team
I’m with you man, as much as I pretend I hate you guys, it’s a hell of a rivalry. I like it better when it’s closer. No offense to the Brewers but it’s just not the same
@cardsfan21 we do have a somewhat of a rivalry with the brew because we beat them in 82, but your right it’s just not the same as stl and chi that rivalry has been going on before my great grandparents time. even outside of bb there has always been that rivalry between us just like bos and ny
I love meaningless games against the cubs because that means things are normal. Most seasons over the last 60 years the cubs suck especially compared to the Cards!
Ok they’ve got no chance!
I think they’ll play just under .500 ball. Not that great of a team.
Alcantara for Libratore, Herrera, Burleson, and Gomez
We would do that trade in a heartbeat. Them? Not a chance.
everyone has a price.. but Kim Ng’s first major deal cannot be trading away Sandy Alcantara.. Bringing in an elite level talented arm that has yet to prove their ability at the ML level to pair with Alcantara will be what makes the Marlins ears perk up…
Hip
You’re kidding right? Alcantara is not only the best pitcher in baseball he also has a reasonable long term contract and salary. He would probably cost Jordan Walker, Dylan Carlson and Tommy Edman, and maybe Winn too. Unless The dirty birds want to trade Walker I don’t see a deal with the fish for starting pitching. Better for Marlins to trade with Dbacks for Thomas or McCarthy, Dodgers for Cartaya or Nets for Alvarez. Or with Atlanta for Harris.
Not one single chance, no. Only way that happens is if Goldy, Arenado, Burns, and Woodruff all hit the DL for the entire year. And maybe even not then.
Just like the 2012 Miami Marlins right?
The Cubs have a solid mediocre to good team now that is certainly capable of winning the division and surprising everybody.. They have retooled. Not to the greatness of before but good enough to win the Central because STL and the Brewers have not addressed their weaknesses properly.
Cardinal’s biggest weakness was catcher.. How did they not address that? Ohhhh thats right, Contreras is a backup has been. The Cubs are barely even mediocre.
Backup has been? That’s absurd
Was sarcasm to earlier comment
Didn’t someone else already write the same article with fewer words?
Nvm. It was a similar article by the same guy that seems to have been expanded upon.
So, this comment section is currently waiting to be filled with idiotic trash-for-treasure trade suggestions. Aaaaaaaaaand GO!
Walker, Hence, Winn, Liberatore, and Gorman for Andujar, Frazier, O’Brien, and Florial!
Or how about Julio Rodriguez for Mickey moniak, Alec bohm, Bryson stott, Brandon marsh, Jesse biddle and maikel Franco. Quantity over quality right?
What do you think the price would be to trade for JRod, as a thought experiment? Ive got Sandy, Perez, Jazz Chisholm, Eder, Cabrera, and Bleday. Is that even enough (again just a thought experiment)?
I was in LA back in 2017 or 2018, out east of Hollywood in Los Feliz, I was walking down the sidewalk, bumming around in the early afternoon, and walking towards me was the actor who played Stevie Janowsky, and I had been a big fan of the show, had seen every episode, but I didn’t know the guys name, and as he’s approaching I’m a little starstruck you know and I was getting ready to yell, “STEVIE!” but kept it together and said, “bravo!” was pretty cool.
I hope this is satire…
Trash for nothing trade: Martin Perez, Duran, and Marcus Semien for 100% salary relief to whomever is willing to take it
how about this one, 12 low a lotto tickets, delong and a case of skunk budweiser for julio, if not we’ll throw in a mid tier fringe guy as well lol.
Guardians trade SP Zach Plesac and SS prospect Jose Tena for 1B Alex Burleson. BTV scores this 13 to 11.4, favoring the Cardinals. I’ll cede that bit of difference because I think Plesac carries some baggage.
Cardinals get a pitcher with some controllable years left, even if he is a bit of a headache (Broke quarantine with Clevinger in 2020 which led to his teammates demanding he be demoted, has injured himself twice whole showing how upset he was). They also get an interesting middle infield prospect who has upside with the glove (won a platinum glove in the minors) and the bat (has hit only kind of well, but has been really young for the level each of the last two years). The last few years have shown that MIF prospects don’t always work out and having spares is good.
Guardians get a LHH 1B/OF option. You might say they already have that, but Josh Naylor hasn’t really been a consistent starter yet and Josh Bell is ultimately a rental. They have virtually nothing like that in the minors. In best case scenario, Burleson is good depth this year and replaces Bell after the season. If things go wrong, he replaces Bell when he gets traded mid-season. He would immediately be a much better 1B option than the next guy up in the Guardians org chart which would be… I guess Micah Pries?
His teammates would probably be the problem then.
Plesac has injured his pitching ha d trying to rip apart the buttons on his shirt, and also from punching the mound. The COVID thing was stupid (he broke very clear team rules at a time everyone was just trying to get through a brief season, and jeopardized them getting incredibly short handed), but forgivable. It’s the fact that he seemingly hasn’t matured that sucks. Him punching the mound was in September this year when the playoff race was close, and he missed several starts and ended up not making the playoff rotation because of it.
I think he needs a change of scenery because nobody here seems to have any sort of control over him.
Alcantara for Libratore, Herrera, Burleson, and Gomez
Alcantara for walker hence and Herrera. Miami should be all over that !
Marlins need to include Jazz, Eury, and Lopez along with Sandy.
Win /win
Walker will not be moved. End of story.
The Cubs are currently tied for 1st. Every one has a chance but a Cardinals collapse from where they should be and a breakdown of the Brewers pitching will likely be needed for the Cubs to win the division.
Liberatore is incredibly overrated as a pitching prospect. Graceffo a future backend starter. Hence is a stud, but multiple years still from touching a rotation. This team needs to trade-off some of their young positional prospects for a controlled starter, then also raise their payroll by extending 1 or 2 of Montgomery/Mikolas and signing a FA starter or two next offseason. Not impressed with their SP prospects from their farm.
Montgomery switched to Boras as his agent in 2021. That’s not the move of someone wanting a contract extension. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t go to free agency.
I didn’t know that. Definitely just deflated my already low expectations of an extension.
Same. I wasn’t really expecting a Montgomery extension, but now I’d put him in the same “definitely testing the market” category as Flaherty.
I won’t be surprised if the Cardinals trade an outfeilder to the Marlins for a pitcher during Spring Training. The Cardinals and Marlins both train in Jupiter, Florida.
Tigers should package Eduardo Rodriguez with an OF or RP for a package including Gorman and Burleson or perhaps Yepez.
Why would the cards trade valuable prospects for a garbage starter?
That outfielder needs to be like Riley Greene. No way are the Cards taking on E-Rod after last season, and giving up Gorman and another young player.
The cardinals have said time and time again they aren’t trading Nootbaar. He has all the tools to be an elite player. Stop mentioning his name in trade take in these articles. Nonsense. Tired of reading the same junk over and over.
Wasn’t this already written today in the Cards/Marlins post? This seems like a front office fed article after Mozalak took so much heat this weekend for lack of activity this off-season. Let’s set some things straight. Carlson is a bust when compared to his prospect hype. Nootbar, Donovan and Edman are high OBP guys with no power. Nootbar does it through walks and Donovan with singles. Singles and walks in a vacuum are essentially the same thing. But at least singles are more sustainable and have the opportunity to drive in runs walk are as much a product of luck as anything else. At least Edman and supplement with stolen bases. That said, a team in a competitive division can win with one or two players like that, but not when half of your position players are the same hitter. The bullpen last year was solid. The year before not so much. Relief pitching is hit or miss for every team any given year. I think it will be a plus, but they could also set a record for walking in the most runs, who knows. The rotation is very far from quality. Mikolis has had as many good years as bad or injured. Matz has never been healthy or very good. Flaherty is laughable and if you think he will contribute this year you probably own FTX stock. Wainwright is a Cardinal great, but couldn’t finish last year because of dead arm. Hudson walks too many and throws softer than my dead grandmother. Montgomery should be solid though. Gomez will probably be traded. He’s shown the kind of success that the cardinals usually trade and ends up being good on other teams. Same thing with Tino Hence, everything I hear about him sounds very similar to what was being said about Alcantara a few years ago. I think this year with a balanced schedule the overly homeristic best fans will get a get their eyes opened to have average or slightly below the team really is.
Nootbaar has no power? And walks are a product of luck? Good job at exposing to everyone here you know nothing about baseball. Please delete you account now. Thank you.
A .448 slug does not scream power to me. It’s ok.
Noot had a .221 ISO last year, for reference Soto has a career .239 ISO. Guess Soto has no power too. Why isn’t your account deleted yet?
Soto’s career slug is .526 with a season high of .695. .5-7 his rookie year at the age of 19. Go to bed Mrs. Nootbar.
Stevie is right you need to delete your account and do more research
“Wainwright is a Cardinal great, but couldn’t finish last year because of dead arm.”
It was WELL publicized by Wainwright and everyone in the STL media that Wainwright was hit with a comebacker in a late August series with the braves and over compensated by shortening his stride sub consciously and didn’t catch it on video til mid September…. that’s why September sucked for him?
All of the idiots who don’t really follow STILL think he was suffering from dead arm? Wow you must live under a larger rock than I do? And mine is almost the size of the moon?
I think the Cardinals have a stalker!?!?
Definitely, this post is a joke !!
I hope for my cubs sake they don’t trade and stick with that rotation. Very risky starting 5. Like our depth way better. Hell our Iowa Rotation should be better than the back end of their rotation. I think we are being underestimated and personally I love it..Everyone keep saying we have no chance to win the division.
You should become a professional analyst guest678. You are WAY better than all the current professionals on MLB teams and in the media. All those guys not only think the Cardinals have a chance, they actually have them as the favorites to win the division. They also think the Cardinals have a fairly deep roster. Wait until you show them what’s what,!
For once I agree with you. I watch almost every cardinals game every year, just tell it how I see it, rather than buy what the local media feeds us, when they have no more of an idea than any other casual fan, except their need for bias to book guests. They aren’t going 48-28 against their division this year. They don’t have the opportunity too and they wouldn’t even if they did. They went 45-41 against non nl central teams last year. They haven’t gotten better this off season. They are a .500 team.
I was talking about national analysts like Fangraphs and the other MLB team’s talent evaluators. I don’t pay attention to local sports people. I never have.
The lack of trades after the whirlwind FA signings is interesting.
I believe that many FO’s are rethinking their intermediate futures. If this offseason’s FA frenzy is to continue even mid-market teams are looking at 4-7 players on their roster with $150m, $200m, $300m. and $400m-plus contracts.
We’ve even seen the Yankees and Red Sox cut back on playing
that game….perhaps even the Dodgers as well. In short – it’s unsustainable.
The Yankees haven’t stop playing and the Sox just handed devers a bag. If they didn’t sign him to a one year deal before the extension they would be tax payers again. The dodgers are tax payers again this year even with their lack of spending this off season. It’s where baseball is at. If you want a star you are going to pay specially in years. The only way to avoid that is to not sign stars. There is a boat load of money in the league right now so you choice is to bring up young players or pay the price. This could very well make young players even more valuable which can lead to a slowing of trades. At the same time don’t get caught up in big markets not spending. They will spend again because they will have no choice.
Simm;
You didn’t read what I wrote – rather you prefer to deal in absolutes.
A team stuck with “4-7 players on their roster with $150m, $200m, $300m, and $400m-plus contracts” has no flexibility whatsoever. If half of those contracts are bad the team can be stuck out of contention for years (imagine a team having 3 Chris Davis-type contacts on the books).
Sorry, but the Yankees, Red Sox and apparently the Dodgers are putting a limit on those sorts of contracts. Today every MLB team has at least 2 candidates that will be wanting them in coming years (look at the FA pitchers after 2024), and there simply aren’t enough teams around to pay them all.
“This could very well make young players even more valuable which can lead to a slowing of trades.”
Yes, that’s what I wrote. FO’s have to figure out how they’re going to handle this situation. And from what I see, the answer is to follow the small market teams and have a large percentage of your players under their 6 years of control. The Braves gave out a lot of long–term contracts. But what they did was pay the arbitration years and maybe a year or two after (John Hart started this in Cleveland 25 years ago). But we don’t see them going on the FA market to pay players those salaries for extended years.
There is not “a boat load of money in the league right now”. There may be in the large markets and with a few mid-market teams that are currently winning – but that’s not the league. Even mid-market teams such as Detroit, Chicago White Sox (they don’t generate the revenue of the Cubs), Mariners (they’ve put a stop to the excessive spending), Nationals, DBacks and others simply cannot take the chance of one bad long-term contract – let alone multiple ones.
The sale of the Nationals has been held up. The claim is the bad TV contract. It’s also the deferred payments on their books as well as
the bad contracts owed Corbin and Strasburg.
The Yankees, Red Sox and dodgers aren’t putting a limit on long term contracts. They are just picking the guys they want to give one to. If Ohtani and Soto were free agents right now all those teams would be willing to hand them a 300m contract. Matter of fact one or more team maybe even give them both 300m. Of course they will both get more than that so it’s unlikely one team would get them both (hypothetical since neither is a free agent). It’s not as much as the long term big money but being wise to who you give it to.
Are low and mid market teams going to do that? Maybe not on multi players but they will eventually do it here and there. Like the twins did on Correa and the dbacks have done on grienke in the past.
Saying there isn’t a ton of money out there and then see what was spent this off-season says otherwise.
Lastly yes I was agreeing with your point that these contracts make the young guys more valuable. Well young possible stars, non stars aren’t getting paid too crazy. Also pitchers aren’t getting stupid crazy deals right now. When it comes to the number of years because of the injury risk. So the massive contracts are going to star position players. Pitchers are getting 2-5 year deals with a high aav. Star position players and getting a ton of years that lower their aav. This is all being done by teams to avoid paying some tax dollars.
Just came to comment that this has to be about the dumbest headline I’ve ever read.
These guys really need to come up with a new shtick. This one is getting old.
No they wouldn’t. Barren farm system after the top 2-3. Plus cheaters so no one should even call these clowns
I wonder what it would take for the sox to get Gorman.
Alcantara, Lopez for Walker, O’Neil, Hudson, Yepez, Winn
They aren’t trading alcantara. It’s been widely reported.
Apart from that and the fact the Cards arent trading Walker either, its a great proposal…
Alcantara for Alec Burleson, Ivan Herrera, and Mathew Libratore? If they need one more to get it done include one of Yepez, or Gomez? If your gonna make a trade, get the ace you let go of?
Other than that I wouldn’t pull a trade till mid season once you figured out whats what and who’s who for 2023?
And it’s all Randy Arozarena fault!
You forgot Donovan and Herrera.
When looking at prospect stats pitching or hitting where they play the games matter more then the level in which they are playing at. Example playing at aaa El Paso boost hitting stats well beyond what they will do in the majors. I could be wrong but it seems like more aaa parks are more hitter friendly then aa.
Unless you follow the minor leagues across the league it’s hard to have a true meaning of what the results mean. Most fans usually only have an idea of what the teams they are fans of know what the real weight of these stats are.
I have no idea which stadiums the cardinals minor leagues are played at. I just know that some stats pitching and hitting can be a bit misleading.
The PCL is a massive hitters league. Many parks are at high elevations, too.
I don’t follow all minor leagues but AA is more fair in our system.
Very true. Never trust excellent hitting stats from the PCL or the California League. They both skew heavily as hitters leagues…
Gee Steve, why don’t all teams only trade with the Cardinals? This sounds like a public relations announcement in behalf of the Cardinals organization. Cardinal fans are insufferable.
Stacked.
Getting an all new rotation wouldn’t be fun. Perhaps a package deal to get a young, controllable guy would work.
I’d entertain a guy who can play ss plus one of their current starters for Sandoval, for example. Saves the Cards money, too.
Before the trade deadline, I suggested a deal like Pablo Lopez and 1 or 2 of the bullpen arms for Gorman, Carlson, Gordon Graceffo, Alec Burleson, and a lower level pitching prospect…
So some smaller version of that…Marlins still do have some LHRP depth (the only bullpen stuff they actually have). Maybe 1 or 2 of those movable bullpen guys, and/or Wendle/Berti, and/or a depth arm like Castano or Bryan Hoeing, added to Lopez for some kind of similar package as that
Good God, man. That’s waaaaaaay too much for Lopez. That’s the kind of deal they were talking about for Juan Soto!
I think you misread what it said
They certainly have options. They always give themselves the ability to restock from within and be very selective in the FA signings/trades they make from outside their system. I wouldn’t be surprised if they extend Monty before spring training. Also wouldn’t be surprised if they pulled off a blockbuster for an ace that nobody saw coming.
I’ve said all along the guy they should pursue is Beiber. Cleveland would probably be able to take the Cardinals to the woodshed prospect-wise, but the reality is if the Cardinals don’t go trade for an ‘Ace’, there’s not much point in it. They should have just signed another 3-4 starter.
Problem is, and its the first time in a long time, the following seasons rotation is completely up in the air. Mo’s done a good job with that aspect for a long time. But after this season it seems improbable to have a solid group going into the next year unless a lot of moves happen.
People say they should extend Mikolas and Monty. But why would they do that? Especially Monty. If he’s remotely decent — and presuming health he should be — he’ll get paid a lot more than the Cardinals would like spend on him. Mikolas might be a bit different, as he’s older, and probably amenable to a shorter term deal. But if he’s good again, he’s gonna cost quite a bit.
To me trading a chunk of the farm for Beiber is worth it. Even if you have to extend him as well. They need an Ace. Otherwise, just let these kids come up and play.
Why would the Guardians trade Bieber? They just made the playoffs as the youngest team in baseball. He’s under control for a few more years and the division is almost as bad as the NL central. If you buy into the Cardinals’ just get into the playoffs and see what happens mentality, the guardians are World Series contends for the ne t few seasons. With their current rotation, they definitely have a better chance then the Cardinals.
Bieber is not being traded unless the Guards fall out of the race. Then, maybe. But I don’t expect that to happen.
This is why I think the Cardinals will wait to make a trade. I can see Bieber becoming available if Cleveland is struggling at the deadline. I don’t see him available if they are in it. They will trade him if they’re struggling this year because he becomes a rental at next years deadline. They get much more for him this year.
bpskelly;
Cleveland will keep Bieber in 2023. They’re trying to get to the WS in 2023 – as says their POBO. They have an overflow of controlled quality prospects. They don’t need more as there are only so many that can play each game.
They’ll very probably keep Bieber in 2024 as well. Even if they can’t sign him to a long-term contract, they’ll use him all year and get a draft choice when he leaves.
Short of trading Goldschmidt, Flaherty (and picking up 80% of their salaries), along with one of Liberatore or Graceffo, there’s nothing the Cardinals have to get Cleveland to even think of risking this 2 year window that they’ve spent years and well over 100 million of dollars preparing for….although Cleveland will send Josh Naylor and Josh Bell back to you.
And might I add – after Bieber leaves their window will still be open because of some pitchers in the high minors that will be up in 2024.
You don’t need frigging commas after the word “and” in the way you’ve used it, Adams. Get an editor, MLBTR.
But here, however, you absolutely need a comma:
“That shouldn’t stop the Cardinals’ front office from trying to force other teams’ hands and convince them to part with starting pitching help or perhaps a slugging bat that might not be a natural trade candidate at first glance.”
What a nosebleed of a sentence.
“That shouldn’t stop the Cardinals’ front office from trying to force other teams’ hands and convince them to part with starting pitching help, or perhaps a slugging bat that might not be a natural trade candidate at first glance.”
At least do that.