Demand for controllable starting pitching is, as always, through the roof in Major League Baseball, but it’s in perhaps shorter supply than at any point in recent years. The Marlins are one of the few teams with starting pitching available on the trade market, as they’re reportedly open to offers on just about anyone other than ace Sandy Alcantara and top prospect Eury Perez. Other options are few and far between, though Chris Cotillo of MassLive.com writes that the Red Sox have received “significant” trade interest in righty Tanner Houck as teams explore alternatives to Miami’s starting pitching glut.
That’s not to say that a deal of Houck is expected or likely. Houck doesn’t have a definite role on Boston’s starting staff thanks to the presence of Chris Sale, Corey Kluber, James Paxton, Garrett Whitlock, Nick Pivetta and Brayan Bello, but the injury risk among that group means that Houck can’t be expressly ruled out of the running, either. Sale has pitched just 48 1/3 innings over the past two seasons, and Paxton has just 21 2/3 frames across the past three MLB seasons combined. Kluber rebounded with 164 innings in 2022 but prior to that had thrown just 116 2/3 innings over a three-year period himself.
Moreover, the 26-year-old Houck could yet find himself with a pivotal role in Boston’s bullpen after impressing as a reliever in 2022. Just four of Houck’s 32 appearances last year were starts; he tossed 43 1/3 innings out of the Red Sox’ bullpen and worked to a sterling 2.70 ERA with a solid 24.2% strikeout rate, 8.4% walk rate and 53% grounder rate. Overall, the former No. 24 overall draft pick logged a 3.15 ERA in 60 innings between his two roles, showing roughly average strikeout rates with slightly below-average command but above-average ground-ball tendencies.
It was the continuation of a strong start to Houck’s still-fledgling career. The hard-throwing righty made his debut when he started three games in the shortened 2020 season, and overall he’s pitched 146 innings of 3.02 ERA ball at the MLB level. However, he’s never topped 119 innings in a professional season, and his 2022 campaign ended in August when he required surgery to address a back injury.
Prior to his big league debut, Houck had some struggles against left-handed opponents, although he’s worked to incorporate a splitter, which has helped to remedy that issue. A hefty 89% of the splitters Houck has thrown over the past two seasons have come against left-handed batters, and in his career opponents have mustered an awful .115/.207/.231 output against the pitch.
Houck is controlled for another five seasons and won’t reach arbitration until after the 2024 campaign. As such, it’s only natural that opposing teams would inquire about his availability. That doesn’t necessarily mean a trade is looming, although the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier reported just two weeks ago that the Red Sox were open to dealing a big league pitcher — “potentially including Houck” — in the right deal. Cotillo, meanwhile, adds that the Sox would be more willing to part with Houck than either Whitlock or Bello, although again, that’s a far cry from saying Houck is someone the Sox are looking to move. That Speier report came before it was publicly known that Trevor Story’s entire 2023 season was in jeopardy following an elbow injury that necessitated internal brace surgery.
In the weeks since that report from Speier, the Red Sox have agreed to a one-year deal with outfielder Adam Duvall, whom they believe can handle center field for them, and brought in veterans like outfielder Greg Allen and catcher Jorge Alfaro on minor league deals. The Red Sox aren’t punting on the 2023 season in the wake of Story’s injury — not after already signing Kluber, Justin Turner, Masataka Yoshida, Kenley Jansen, Chris Martin and Joely Rodriguez for a combined $173.2MM.
As such, it stands to reason that any deal involving Houck would need to involve Major League talent heading back to Boston. The Sox could theoretically withstand the subtraction of Houck from the pitching staff thanks to those aforementioned bullpen additions and a decent crop of depth options in the rotation (which, in addition to the previously listed names, includes Josh Winckowski, Bryan Mata and Kutter Crawford). There’s also quite a bit of rotation depth still available in free agency, so the Sox could always look to backfill via the open market in the event that they trade a current starting pitcher.
Potential areas for improvement on the big league roster include the middle infield, where Enrique Hernandez and Christian Arroyo figure to play prominent roles following Story’s injury, and behind the plate, where the combination of Reese McGuire, Connor Wong and Alfaro could all vie for time. It’s feasible, too, that the Sox could still pursue a long-term option in center field, although those are also in short supply this winter and the addition of Duvall at least ostensibly lessens such a need.
For now, it seems the Sox plan to head to camp with the idea of Houck stretching out as a starter, then scale him back to a short relief role if necessary. That said, given the dearth of options for teams seeking rotation help on the trade market, this probably won’t be the last time Houck’s name pops up on the rumor mill in the weeks leading up to Spring Training. There’s no indication a deal is likely, but other teams will surely make efforts to pry Houck and others loose — particularly now that a major injury to Story has altered Boston’s 2023 outlook.
Eh, kinda wanna keep this one, yes? Houck would be a great swingman. And he can take Sale’s spot in the rotation when he goes down with migraine infection syndrome.
The worse fear you should have is bloom making a trade. He prioritizes ‘reclamation’ projects over proven talent in his returns – not the type of PBO/GM front office you want handling a young controllable pitcher when what your team needs is…. more young, controllable pitching.
Seriously, most of the rest of the rotation is a walking geritol commercial, and, not far from free agency.
Move someone? Trade sale, paxton, and/or pivetta. Those should be the available names. I’d add kluber, but, rules require he stick around a bit before being eligible.
Who exactly do you assume would take Sale or Paxton without the Sox eating his entire salary?
Paxton is the easier trade with a 4m price tag. I feel he would be of some interest to many clubs at that price, and, if you eat the 4m, I bet most contenders would love to add him for depth.
But the point is you move the geriatrics if you feel the need to move anyone at all. Otherwise you’re just exacerbating a looming problem.
GASox – If I may interject, I don’t foresee the Sox trading Houck or any of their starting pitchers as long as they are in contention. They will keep the team intact to continue giving the impression they aren’t punting on the season, even though we all know several of the players currently on the roster would be made available at the trade deadline if the Sox are toast by then.
If they fall out of contention and Sale or Paxton are pitching well, then yes I would expect either of them to be traded.
Paxton has pitched a total of 22 innings in the past three seasons. He’s not going to fetch any kind of return.
So Alex Verdugo was a reclamation project?
I guess that makes Schwarber a reclamation project also?
Was Jeter downs a proven talent? We can go down the mookie rabbit hole for the 10,000th time, but, two facts remain immutable:
1) after the mookie/price trade, even with the salary BOS took on it was roughly $18m under cbt. (Recall including price only saved $16m off cbt, and thus, leaving price off trade would have left BOS $2m under cbt)
2) price was not a desirable piece to LAD, or anyone else. You’d maximize returns by keeping price and demanding better pieces coming back.
Now, what did bloom do with that extra money from shedding part of price’s contract? BOUGHT DAMAGED RECLAMATION PROJECTS.
Come on Joe–no-one can make a case for a player or 2 but there is no denying for every Schwarber I could give you many names Bloom has added that fit the reclamation project. Most have not worked our–Hill, JBJ, Cordero that come to mind without even thinking. I know you are a Bloom fan but he is the king of the one year contracts. As a fan I dont want to be supporting a revolving roster every year..
Tell me you don’t know anything about trades without saying you don’t know anything about trades
Demand for pitching is at an all time high? Really? The 2020 NL Cy Young winner isn’t signed. We all know why but I just think MLB’s hypocrisy is a pathetic joke.
And as far as Houck goes why would you sell low on him after his back surgery unless you know something.
It’s not like Bauer isn’t signed because he wants a ton of cash. He isn’t signed for obvious reasons and I hope it stays that way.
Why? He’s a great pitcher and was proven innocent. He’d help this rotation immensely and they can probably get him cheap.
He wasn’t proven innocent, a district attorney office declined to prosecute. Big distinction.
Also, legal standard for criminal acts isn’t more likely than not, it adds that there can be no reasonable doubt what-so-ever. DAs take all that into account including evidentiary issues which could be too many to list.
GA Sox- fan.you sound pretty narrow minded. guilty until proven innocent seems to be your philosophy…If the DA didn’t think there was enough evidence for a c conviction ??
MLB saw enough evidence to levy the largest suspension in league history. That counts for nothing?
If you spent any time in the profession you’d know enough of the ins and outs of what leads to failures to pursue charges.
Rapists and murderers let go because chain of evidence is broke, or, implicit bias in an investigating officer.
Lack of witnesses – he says one thing, she says another.
Picture this fact pattern: she says she consented to the choking, not an offense because to be battery it needs to be offensive and not consented to – except she asked to be choked as a kink. When she was unconscious she says she woke up with bruises and injuries she didn’t consent to. But WHO saw Bauer land the blows? If she was unconscious, she didn’t. If she was awake did she say stop? Where were the defensive wounds on him? Doesn’t matter if she says she was blacking out and weak, couldn’t land any. He says she never tried. If he invokes the 5th as to answering whether he made the hits, or, his hits did all the injuries, where the eyewitness testimony? She can only say she consented to choking and passed out. Nobody saw who landed blows which was the offensive part. He says she was kinky and someone else created the injuries and she just blames him.
Doesn’t mean he’s innocent, just means it’s murky and you don’t move forward. Lack of resources and the rise of pro-criminal DAs.
The world is pretty messed up these days. Legal system is full of sausage making. People think it’s about ‘justice’ which is wrong, it’s about resolution. Sure, many times it’s about getting to truth, but in reality, it’s about finality and ending disputes, not about some higher truth seeking mission.
GA Sox fan–Listen I don’t profess to being a Bauer fan in fact I have always thought he was an arrogant idiot. but is it not possible that the complainant fabricated or at least exaggerated the charges?? A similar thing happened in hockey to Jake Virtanen of the Vancouver Canucks and the case went to trial and he was acquitted but his NHL career is basically in ruins. MLB was forced in my view to impose a lengthy suspension while the situation played out in the justice system which can be a VERY lengthy process. Once it became clear they re-instated him. Because the case is not going to trial one will really never know what truly happened. I understand Bauer has filed a suit against the compliment.
Anything is possible Randy, it’s just a question of how probable you think it is and how you weigh the negatives. Sort of like a long term correa deal.
To me, Bauer never was that elite. He had one better than career average outlier year. Porcello also had one good year and won a CY Young too, didnt make him all that, and, doesn’t mean we go dig him out of mothballs and sign him to be an ace.
Bauer also had clubhouse issues, is arrogant, and as a personality I’ll refrain from using the language of how I view him here.
If some team wants to take a flier on him? OK, sure, have at it. But I wasn’t a fan of Osuna, Ozuna, Chapman, or any of the rest of their little club sticking around either. Outside the sports world you’d see bigger consequences too these days, no reason not to hold athletes to the same standard.
And as far as Houck goes why would you sell low on him
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You don’t know they are selling low. Right now, I view him as a high-quality RP, with a ceiling as a closer. Another GM might view him as a solid #3 SP.. If we give him starts, his 3rd tine thru results might have other GMs convinced he is nothing more than a quality BP arm.
Until Houck proves he’s good after BACK SURGERY they’d be selling low. Do you know what back surgery means?
It was only lasix on a bulging disc. Those procedures take less than one hour and you walk out of the hospital the same day. His back will be 100% fine after that simple procedure. It’s not like he had fusion surgery.
Why the saws would even consider trading such a controllable good arm is nonsense altogether
Which, given the fact its chaim bloom at the helm, is exactly why they’re fielding offers on him.
This team hasn’t had a coherent blueprint for roster construction since 2019.
Why would they wanna do that? Unless some GM wants to overpay big time.
Because he has only shown two quality pitches in which profiles him as a pen arm. Which drastically reduces his value. If they can trade him to a team that views him as a starter they may get a decent piece back. If he plays the season is a middle reliever his value will drop pretty quickly.
Of course if they keep him and he can be a quality starter is value would go up. So it’s comes down to how the Sox view him more then anything.
My question is what kind of return would they be seeking? Not all pitchers work out. That said, I don’t see him as a starter but I think he can be a top closer. Regardless of the bullpen additions, HT to me is a closer and can learn from Jansen. By August, the rolls get reversed and he becomes the closer. Thus, unless a team overpays, I’m keeping him.
Dewey…. Perfect!!!100%… reminds me a little of PAP and he also did not have more than two pitches….
Houck can relieve but it’s like putting Sale in the bullpen in Chicago a decade ago. Great place to get your feet wet but he’s a starter for the long haul. In fact, he looks to have the best upside potential of any SP in the Red Sox organization. Those aren’t the guys you send to the bullpen. Guys like Whitlock go there because they don’t have as good of stuff but for an inning they can be effective.
Pulled I like Houck I think he can be starter hopefully he can develop that splitter to with his good fastball and wipeout slider. I think Javier has shown the blueprint if your fastball and slider are elite enough you can start and I hope that he can be that. I do have to disagree on the highest upside potential of any starter with the Red Sox that is easily Bello. Bello has 4 or 5 pitches his four seamer is high 90’s, his two seam sinking fastball is mid to high nineties and is ground ball inducing machine. His mid 80’s changeup is also a plus pitch that he throws at anytime in the count. He also has a good slider and just for good measure picked up on a curve on the fly last year from Rich Hill. It remains to be seen how that pitch ultimately grades out but just the fact he was willing to try and learn a new pitch on the fly talks about his moxie. When you combine superior starters stuff with the no back down attitude the willing to try new things he is easily the highest upside starter the Red Sox have produced in long, long, time.
Bruin1012 – You are spot on here! Bello is the best starting pitching prospect Boston has developed in 10+ years. I’m really hoping that Bryan Mata follows suit this year. Prior to his TJS, Mata was actually ranked ahead of Bello. Mata did quite well last season coming off TJS so I’m hopeful that Bello & Mata become the 1-2 punch this team has been missing for years.
I don’t want to trade Houck, but I’d be alright if he could bring in Ha-Seong Kim
Same
While I like Kim, I would hope Bos could get more than that for Houck.
Yeah as I posted that I had the same though lol. You have any ideas of other middle infielders that the Sox could get for Houck?
None that at are better. Plus I don’t think the padres would trade Kim for houck. Not exactly a lot of 5 war shortstops that are being paid 7m a year available.
The Padres have like 6 shortstops already
Boston should see if they can get that Xander Bogaerts guy! Oh… too soon?
Kyle Farmer?
Rodgers?
2 years of a player coming off a 5.1 bWAR season at a reasonable salary is pretty valuable in this market. Kim would probably hit better in Boston too.
Sox should ask for Campusano to solve their long term catching situation too
Campusano is already washed up
Lol he has had less the 100 at bats. 24 year old catcher who was a top 50 prospect before graduating. Has crushed the minor leagues but you are right he is a bust.
some of the shine may have come off Campusano but he’s hardly washed. Catchers take longer to develop.
If he wasn’t you wouldn’t see SD constantly cycling through veterans now and in the recent past, and they’re still in the market for a catcher……well, they’re in the market for anything all the time, so nothing new there.
Or they value experience in that position. He is slated to be reg part of the duo between him and Nola this year. So he will get his chance to prove himself.
I would like Cronenworth but we couldn’t do that on top of Kim
You couldn’t get cronenworth for houck even without Kim. Let’s not acting like houck has some massive trade value. He is a good flyer for a team willing to risk him as a starter. These expectations of what he is going to bring back are crazy. Kim and campusano for houck….is laughable
Simm: because young controllable pitching is suddenly in abundance?
3 era bullpen guys are
Really? how many are available right now that have 5 more years of control? with MLB experience under their belt?
Well you would have to look up every single team and find a pitcher with 5 years of control left with a 3 era and see. Not a project I’m going to spend the time doing.
As far as available they are all available for the right price.
I’m also not saying tanner is worthless. I’m just saying some have said Kim and cronenworth or campusano for houck and that’s just not happening.
If houck had an above avg 3rd pitch then that would be a different story.
Heck Boston is talking about possibly stretching him out to see if he can be a starter. Let’s not act like the Sox have 5 elite starters where they don’t need him. If they really thought he was a definite starter they wouldn’t even consider trading him.
If the padres view houck a middle reliever they aren’t trading Kim straight up for him. So once again the lack of knowing exactly what he can be is mixing his value. Nobody is saying he is a scrub.
Houck has a strong chance of being an elite closer hence he has more value than what you’re giving him credit for. I do agree the lack of a third pitch is a problem but he has the temperament and two elite pitchers that would make him more than just a middle reliever. I’m not saying he should fetch a bunch of top prospects but asking for a solid SS and a catcher that has slipped (even though he has a lot of potential) as part of a trade isn’t as unrealistic as you’re making it out to be.
Kim isn’t exactly swimming in control either. It’s a 2 year rental followed by free agency, vs a 5 year control legit pitching arm… maybe a great closer, maybe a mid rotation arm.
Price out what an average SP or high end RP go for these days vs an average SS.
5 war shortstop is avg then all the mlb metrics are way off. You do realize avg is zero war right?
And what did Kim do the year before? He had one good season out of two in mlb, and people act like he’s a future HOF.
His total body of work doesn’t show him as an elite SS, which is exactly why SD dumped hundreds of millions on Bogey and moved Kim off the SS position.
Instead of war, which is skewed by position and weighted, look at his OPS and OPS+ which also were one season below average, and one just barely above, and consider the value Kim has where SD has him deployed currently on the depth chart.
Kim as PART of the return for Houck is one thing, but there better be other pieces packaged with him in a deal and even then it’s dumb to trade from a position of long term weakness for boston who can’t afford to buy a competent 1-5 off the FA market
Kim is currently the padres starting second baseman. Just because the padres are loaded doesn’t mean Kim isn’t good.
He came over from Korea and took a part time first season to adjust to the majors. I really can’t tell if you are trolling or just ignorant.
If the padres would trade Kim for houck bloom would be driving houck to the airport tomorrow. Even in todays mlbtr’s chat today the question came up. The answer from the writer was if the padres view houck as someone who can go 3 times through a lineup then it would be an interesting trade. That’s the million dollar question because the padres aren’t trading Kim for a current middle reliever.
Also almost every single padre fan would tell you Kim should be playing short over Xander. That Xander should move to second because Kim is that good.
Doesn’t really matter what the fans would say. At the end of the day Xander signed to play short thus it creates a redundancy even if Kim is playing second for now.
Kim’s top value is at short so that is somewhat true. Though if the padres trade him they move cronenworth back to second leaving a hole at second. They could play carpenter there but they probably don’t want to risk a 37 old player who may or may not be good playing the field everyday. So if they trade Kim now they have to acquire a 1b. So Kim even at second is still very valuable to the current padres team.
The Padres don’t need a closer, they already have two. The Padres are all-in and going for it this year. They are not looking for guys who are risks. Is Houck the Red Sox #3 starter? No. He is their #6 starter. Houck is a big risk and Kim is the Padres starting 2B. The Padres want innings. Houck does not provide them.
I just don’t see the Padres making this trade.
Yep, would have to add a piece, like a 15-20 ranked Sox prospect
I would take Kim in a heartbeat. Houck has upside, but is still a risk that he won’t be a starter or a closer. Kim seems very low risk, and fits very well.
Would have to be a mighty big haul( Fort Knoxish) again when’s the last time Redsox developed any kind of pitching not named Lester/Pap???
Buchholz
Houck’s ability to start or close games gives him tremendous value, problem is can Bloom maximize it. Long term the Sox need a CF, however if they view Rafaela as a CF than maybe they don’t. Story is signed long term, Yorke and Mayer are coming in a couple of years. The Sox best Catching prospects are both in A ball and could be a ways off. Not sure if they could get a decent controlable Catcher for Houck (M.J. Melendez?) But it might suit the Sox better to keep him
Melendez would be interesting. I’d be willing to make that trade
Thats a mistake unless the get a really good piece back. Someone in the Jackson Jobe or Jack Leiter and Kumar Rocker tier.
He isn’t valued near those guys
Sounds like we got the president of the Tanner Houck Hater Club over here
FletcherFan6959 mins ago
Sounds like we got the president of the Tanner Houck Hater Club over here
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I disagree. Simm is just saying that too many RS fans are overrating him. Just think about his position with the RS. We aren’t starting him, and we paid $10M to Kluber instead. He isn’t closing, and we paid $32M/2 for Jansen.
This is telling other teams how we value him. If we thought Houck was going to be a dependable starter or closer, then either Kluber or Jansen would not be here.
Which isn’t to say he doesn’t have good value. He had 12 relief outings of more than 1.0 IPs, and was outstanding in 11 of them, almost unhittable. But that’s also the resume of someone that another GM might reach for.
All this is true, the signs the Sox are showing is they don’t know what he is. Some fans though are saying he is an elite closer. He is number 3 starter. Perhaps he can be one or both of those things but right now he is a 2 pitch pitcher that is 26 now coming off a series back injury. Hasn’t pitch many innings. It’s hard to Gage full value for a guy that has real questions.
Joe, kluber could just as easily be there because they decided paxton was a BUST, and, sale is not dependable.
Jansen is there because the BP in general was a BUST, and, the reliance on high mileage old age arms is telling that there is still a failure to commit to what a sustained BP takes.
Neither says Houck was viewed as not having a role.
I know but that’s what it’s going to take for me to accept it.
Shoot, Jobe for Houck?
Sign me up
Houck is a stud.
Stud, agreed. Outsider looking in here. Red Sox draftee. First round pedigree, Tons of team control. Young. FO ain’t moving him.
Oh, Significant Interest, as to those who are opposed….. Strenuously Object!!!
@Swanhenge – If the Sox can get Ha-Seong Kim for Houck straight up, they should seriously consider doing so. Kim plays an incredible defensive SS, which will be more important than ever given the ban on shifting this season. Plus Kim’s bat came around last season in a big way, posting a 5.1 WAR on the season. I do love Houck but being able to cash him in for an everyday SS would be hard to turn down.
They won’t block Mayer… they will go for a 1-2 year guy..
Kim won’t disappear in two years. He he maintains his 2022 numbers (which I expect some regression), he’ll be a great trading chip in 2 years.
Or second baseman
Kim, is under control for 2 years. That would give Mayer time to develop if he isn’t ready in a year/
Houck is the premiere pitcher on the Red Sox roster. This news scares the crap out of me because Bloom consistently does the wrong thing. Cross your fingers he keeps him.
Maybe we can switch things up for Bloom and have him trade Sale for Arraez in Minnesota. Arraez could play 3B so Devers could go to DH. Batting Arraez and Yoshida in front of Devers might produce a lot more runs than the team is going to get as of today. It’s a bit of a salary dump but Minnesota desperately needs a #1 to be competitive and there are no #1s on the market any more. Bloom will like dumping yet another DD guy and this time unlike all others he’d get an excellent player in return..
New place, no Cora. Sale might like this deal a lot. Two high OBP guys with Devers is just the type of turn around this club needs. No Cora is just the type of turn around Sale would thrive in.
Maybe we can switch things up for Bloom and have him trade Sale for Arraez in Minnesota
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Virtually no chance that Minny swaps Arraez for Sale.
So Cora has been responsible for Chris Sale`s injury history the past few years? As for your trade proposal, I’d love having Arraez on the Sox… I just don’t see Minnesota doing it. Too risky to trade one of their best hitters for a frequently injured starter, as good as Sale has been when he is available.
I actually think dealing Houck would be a smart move. The Sox have been doing this yo-yo act with their young pitching prospects for like two decades now where they shuttle them between starting jobs and high-leverage bullpen gigs, and it almost never seems to pan out (sometimes it’s really disastrous—remember what they did to Daniel Bard?). I’d rather they’d just given Houck and Whitlock the reins this season instead of bringing in Kluber, but I’d much rather trade Houck while he’s valuable and recoup some controllable infield talent than mismanage him into the ground like they’ve done so many other young pitchers.
I’d rather they’d just given Houck and Whitlock the reins this season instead of bringing in Kluber
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I feel just the opposite. We’re at our best when Whitlock is in the BP, and probably Houck as well, even though I am not sold on him. High-quality 2-inning outings are gold, imo.
Please don’t trade Houck.
Mondesi and Taylor royals salary dump
The Red Sox have had a nice offseason, they should jump Ceddane up to the bigs and let him play SS, Duvall in CF, Kiki at 2B
bwmiller – The Boston Red Sox? Nice off sesason? They lost 3 all-stars and added a high OBP LF with no glove and no speed. This has been a terrible off season. With Mayer on the horizon you want to move Ceddane in front of him at SS? Seriously? Duvall in CF not RF? I’d rather see him at 3B. Kiki at 2B? Arroyo is a better fielder and hitter than Kiki.
You have some very unique ideas about what to do. Are you related to Bloom or Cora?
Duvall probably the best glove the Red Sox have in the outfield, if anybody is playing 3rd outside of Devers its likely Justin Turner, he is a good glove at 3rd.
Kiki and Arroyo can both get ABs at 2nd, Kiki gets some starts in CF, Duvall gets some starts in the corners, but for the most part probably in center. Yoshida can’t play CF or RF, but have some positional flexibility with Duvall in CF.
Could bump Mayer up to SS this year too honestly, but Ceddane likely a better option with the Sox not wanting to start the clock on Mayer until he has fully developed offensively, I read that some feel like Ceddane is the best short stop in the system defensively so it’s not too far fetched.
Red Sox avoided the lurch in a way letting Bogaerts walk with those prospects coming in. It’s not out of the question that Devers finds a new home if the Sox aren’t in contention at the deadline, the Mets will be lurking and they have some nice prospects.
But I like Boston’s approach, their starting pitching is far from being great, it could be better than advertised, but haven’t seen what Sale has left, Paxton a question mark, Kluber is getting old, Whitlock and Bello are unproven, and Pivetta always a roller coaster ride, until you see how Sale is throwing and how the young kids develop, better to save the money for a rainy day, they have to spend on SP at some point, but until you know what you got in the can it’s hard to go out and sign any long term deals with FA.
And they could be sneaky good this year, if Yoshida sets the table, Devers gonna Devers, Turner is a nice OBP guy with a little power, and if they can’t compete, they didn’t spend a fortune and will be in a good spot heading into ’24.
I think it’s more like Kike at SS and Arroyo at second.
You’re just a dope.
Duvall in center, Kike at short Arroyo at second
Sox won’t trade him unless they get a crazy offer.
Baty, MeGill, Parada and Ramirez for Devers – probably a bad trade for the Mets but they are all in on the next decade and likely willing to deal their prospects.
Wait, the Red Sox have a pitcher who is coveted by other teams? But I thought they couldn’t develop pitching. I’m so confused.
Red Sox are gonna lose more than 100 games. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional
Red Sox woo;
Yes, with their missing out on Tommy Pham they appear doomed.
They signed Adam Duvall
I guess you could call me delusional then.
@Red Sox Woo – I’d bet the farm the Red Sox lose much less than 100 games. You want to make a delusional bet on it?
Just a thought….a 26 year old, hard throwing righty, with 2 MLB pitches( regardless of how “elite”), who has at 26 already had a disc operation on his back…..not really good combinations even if you envision him as a 1 inning relief pitcher…..if Kim is available, and the Rock Star GM of the Padres is willing to roll the dice on a trade…..the Sox should jump at it.
He has a 3rd pitch in his splitter that he saves mostly for lefties but the results are fantastic when he throws it. So I’d say he has 3 MLB pitches right now, and possibly 4 if you count 2-seamers vs. 4-seamers as two separate pitches.
Well, if he does indeed have that 3rd pitch that he can use against left handed hitters, and he is pitching against a predominant left handed lineup, then okay…..but I stand by my statement that a 26 year old hard thrower, regardless of relief or starting, with a disc operation already…..you get maybe 60 innings of relief, or max. 30 starts of 5-6 innings…..if the opportunity to get a 150 game high upside SS, with a great glove, and at least average bat…..I do that everyday and make the trade.
Yet again the fanbase is divided.
There isn’t a GM or President who would trade for Houck before the ‘23 deadline, who just came off back surgery, or an owner who would allow them to. They’d want to see him pitch, pitch effectively and remain healthy first. Any trade that has Houck included in the proposal is dead in the water from the get go. Preliminary discussions to gage interest going forward, sure, but a trade before the season starts, I just don’t see it happening.
Houck had a bulging disk that they lasered off. It is a very simple and common ‘surgery’ (more like a procedure). Provided that the disc did not rupture, which a simple X-Ray or MRI would show, there should be little to no concern about the procedure he had disrupting his performance this season. It’s not like he had fusion surgery on his back.
Wow, didn’t know you were Dr. Mantooth and new so much about this surgery LOL…don’t want to be mean but…..still wouldn’t trust a bad back this early in his career at 26……backs don’t magically get better with time and/or an operation this early and at a position that demands flexibility and strength in a back…….in NY we saw Donny Baseball become mortal because of a bad back that was originally deemed to be not of great concern with rest, and medical treatment…….if you can trade him for a position starter, who is controllable, has a great glove, and above average bat…..I think you jump at it.
The Marlins should get a nice haul for one of their available arms then sign Bauer for the league minimum.
The Marlins signed Johnny Cueto. Unlikely they would take Bauer he agreed to pay them
Eury Perez is a top prospect? He’s 32 years old and hasn’t been in the league since 2018. Unless there is another Eury Pérez I’m unaware of
There is another Eury Perez. He’s in the Marlins farm system
Houck. Is. Not. A. Starter.
If he is traded he would be a reliever or swing man at best for his new team just like he will be for the Red Sox this season if he is not traded. He has thrown 140 IP over the last 2 seasons. The soonest he could be a full time starter is 2024.
Houck. Is. Not. A. Prospect.
He is 26 years old and will be 27 in June. He can maybe be stretched out to 100 innings in 2023. Just not sure why people are so high on him. Combining his age and lack of ability to start full time anytime soon means he doesn’t have much trade value.
Baseballislife, you are right Houck is not a prospect that is a true statement.
What he is a guy that has shown bat missing ability at the big league level. That is more valuable then a prospect that hasn’t shown that bat missing and ground ball ability in the big leagues and as such he has quite a bit of value for a team like say San Diego or any would be contender that has shown the ability to get big league hitters out and is controlled until 2028.
I mean I know fans of San Diego really like Kim and if you really look at him as a 5 WAR shortstop then yes I wouldn’t trade him for Houck straight up but Fangraphs has him as a 3.7 WAR shortstop and in this case I like Fangraphs eval better then Baseball Reference. Don’t get me wrong a mid 3s WAR shortstop is valuable but he is free agent in 2025 while Houck isn’t a free agent until 2028. I think they are roughly the same value it would be a decent one for one. Kim would certainly help Boston at its biggest position of need and Houck would give San Diego another arm that misses big league bats and induces a lot of ground balls.
Now should they do the trade from a Boston perspective I’m on the fence. Kim isn’t a difference maker for Boston this year very slim chance Boston is making the playoffs this year. From San Diego’s perspective depends on the role they see for Kim and if they can something better then Houck for him in their opinion. I don’t know the answer to that question but from a pure value perspective Houck and Kim are probably pretty even.
Trading Houck would make no sense at all. Everyone knows the Sox are unlikely to be competitive this year, so trading him for more established MLB talent makes little sense. The Sox’ current horizon is 1-3 years, and those are Houck’s prime controllable years, so trading him for prospects is also silly.
The only way it makes sense is if Bloom can fleece a foolish GM, getting substantially superior MLB-ready pitching that’s under control for 2023-2026, or a prospect that’s the second coming of Pedro Martinez.
I’d like to see Sale traded for prospects, with the Sox eating the whole salary. He’s not going to contribute, and even if he does the Sox are going to waste it this year. So eat his salary and take a flyer on a package that will help us on 2024 and beyond. Some small market team that thinks 2023 is their window will gladly trade a package of futures for the chance to have Sale in Ace form at the MLB minimum.
I don’t know why we bother to play the games. You guys have the season figured out now, they are in last place and will lose more than 100 games. Such geniuses you are.
SoxRule – Why so bitter? Does it matter if it’s 100 losses or 90 losses? The damage is done and the talent level resembles the early 60s. It will take lots of time to fix what Bloom has done so why quibble over 100 losses or 90 losses. The single most important thing to happen this year is the firing of Bloom. If that doesn’t happen, we’ll be talking the same trash a year from now. That’s not progress that’s pathetic, just like the last three years when the erosion of the Red Sox was happening.
Lets reverse the Bloom curse and find a GM that can actually do what Bloom claimed he would do by now. Consistent winning? Not gonna happen until he’s gone. Funny, I could hear George Bush Sr. saying it as I wrote it!!
Okay, and what makes you think Sale will accept a trade to some non competing small market team? He has a full no trade clause.
Alright fine I take it back. Prob gonna lose 150
Games
Having a guess on the number of wins in 2023 is pretty normal for any fan. Some use their heart to guess, some use scientific measures, some simply take last year and apply adjustments. There is no one right answer because the future is unknown.
Like many on this site I look at last year which turned out better than it should have considering how much talent has been lost and then I subtract wins for the great players given up during the off season. Then we add back a few wins for improvements, frankly, very few until we get to see Yoshida. The other resources added are known and not of much consequence. Jansen struggled but should still do very well but will he have opportunities to save games.
Will Sale and Paxton be healthy. If so they could add to the win total and off set some of the wins that were lost when JD, Bogey and Eovaldi walked out the door. In the end, it took players from the 2018 team to create the imaginary hope that was 2021 and those players are gone except for Devers. So less than 81 wins should be predicted based on last year and the changes made, it should also be predicted since the defense got worse (yes it’s hard to believe that was possible but it’s true), the hitting fell off significantly and only the pitching could be a positive compared to last year. Cora is still manager so Kiki will play when he shouldn’t. Devers will play 3B when he shouldn’t. There is no adequate SS or 2B that can field and hit like Bogey. The catcher is a huge step down from Vazquez from a hitting perspective. Verdugo struggled in right field when he originally played there so they moved him to LF.. Now he’s stuck in RF since Yoshida is so bad in LF where the Red Sox put their weakest fielding outfielder.
Thinking the team won’t be so bad is fine but realistically that’s not likely. There are a handful of teams that will be cellar dwellers around baseball and Boston has locked up it’s spot in the AL East. The big question is whether they will get a top 5 draft pick in 2024 because there are several key prospects that could help them down the road.
The rebuild can’t officially start until Bloom removes the final players from the 2018 team and it’s taken 3 years to do what he’s done so far. If Sale and the prospects (Houck, Casas and Duran) can be shipped out then the Bloom rebuild can begin. Hopefully, ownership fixes the problem before Houck, Casas and Duran are pushed through Bloom’s revolving door.
So guess over 81 if you think like JoeBrady or guess 65 if you subtract from last years total based on players lost. Time will tell and calling other contributors names isn’t really going to change the future. If they are pessimistic, there is good reason to be. Lots of the optimism has left Red Sox nation thanks to Bloom. He’s parted ways with an elite outfield, he’s removed the star SS, he’s refused to move the 3B to DH where he belongs, he’s signed an all-star 2B who was hurt and hasn’t recovered and he keeps picking up bad 1Bs to take time away from the two home grown 1Bs signed by Dombrowski. There is lots to be pessimistic about in 2023. The future beyond Bloom though is something to be positive about. Heck, I can’t picture a worse GM replacing him so things have to get better!!!
There it is, I’m feeling really positive about things improving when Bloom is gone!!
What is all this BS about Jansen being a bust? Hey dude, don’t let a few facts change your opinion. Look at his stats, even for the past few years. The Dodgers won a lot of games with him. And the American League mostly has never seen him. Want a number to get your Sox hatred going? How about 30-40 saves this year. I’d bet a lot of money on that,
And my god people, you know it was insane – even San Diego management said as much – to give a 30-year-old shortstop who has shown steady decline with age an 11-year, bazillion dollar contract? Talk in real terms, people. He was still one of the best clutch hitters and cleanup hitters since Ortiz. But guess what? JD did nothing last year, and the bullpen sucked. Xander’s hitting and fielding will likely be improved upon and replaced by the new guys. We’ll probably have a better shortstop (Kim). And the bullpen is 100 percent better, we actually have one (and a closer) now.
I’m still not sure Chaim is the right person for the job, but he’s done a lot of really good things. GMs make mistakes on players all the time, it goes with the job.
Can we talk about the wrong Eury Perez that’s linked here? What the, in baseball from the Dominican rep at 22 and playing for Kentucky at 32. Baseball is a weird game.
Trading him would be such a Bloom thing to do.
NO CHAIM! NO…NO…NO…NO & ABSOLUTELY NOT! Especially for middle infielders…ARROYO is 1000% Capable of SS or 2b full time! Just extend him for 7 years 15 million before he makes you pay 15-20aav per year after a full starting season! He IS THAT GOOD! Kiki can cover the other position now that DuVall & Tapia are in the fold. Cedanne Rafael is here as well…go spend $ on LHRP Brad Hand and dump Ryan Braiser that will be fabulous for the BP. Lastly get Trevor Bauer to SP…that leaves our SP & RPs/Closer Solid as a rock with depth & tons of options for AC & injuries! DO NOT TRADE Tanner McNasty Houch!
Come on, Steve.
“Demand for controllable starting pitching is, as always, through the roof in Major League Baseball, but it’s in perhaps shorter supply than at any point in recent years.”
No. Stop with the dang commas.
“As always, demand for controllable starting pitching is through the roof in Major League Baseball, but it’s in perhaps shorter supply than at any point in recent years.”
Fixed. And here come the long sentences…
“Houck doesn’t have a definite role on Boston’s starting staff thanks to the presence of Chris Sale, Corey Kluber, James Paxton, Garrett Whitlock, Nick Pivetta and Brayan Bello, but the injury risk among that group means that Houck can’t be expressly ruled out of the running, either.”
For the love of god just split it up. And you never need a comma before either. Then there’s this monstrosity of a sentence:
“Cotillo, meanwhile, adds that the Sox would be more willing to part with Houck than either Whitlock or Bello, although again, that’s a far cry from saying Houck is someone the Sox are looking to move.”
Gross. Save yourself (and all of us) the pain by starting it with “meanwhile” at least. Then the worst offender:
“It’s feasible, too, that the Sox could still pursue a long-term option in center field, although those are also in short supply this winter and the addition of Duvall at least ostensibly lessens such a need.”
What an absolute mouthful, starting with the use of “too” which doesn’t need commas at all.
“It’s also feasible that the Sox could still pursue a long-term option in center, though those are in short supply this winter too, and the Duvall addition ostensibly lessens that need.”
At least I can breathe during this version of your unwieldy point.
How many times can you say “as such?”