FEBRUARY 6: Heyman today provided more specifics of the incentives on Twitter. Greinke will get that $8.5MM guarantee, then $450K for getting to 90 innings pitched and every five innings thereafter up until 135. At 140 innings pitched, he gets a further $300K and keeps adding that amount at each five-inning interval until 185.
FEBRUARY 3: The Royals officially announced Greinke’s new deal. According to Jon Heyman of the New York Post (Twitter link), Greinke will earn $8.5MM in guaranteed money, with up to $7.5MM more available in incentives.
JANUARY 30: The Royals have reached agreement on a one-year contract to bring back veteran starter Zack Greinke, according to Bob Fescoe of 610 Sports Radio in Kansas City. MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand hears that the deal will be worth $8-10MM in base salary, plus performance-based bonuses. Greinke is a client of Excel Sports Management.
Greinke began his professional career with the Royals way back in 2002 as the No. 6 overall pick in that year’s MLB Draft. He made his big league debut in KC in 2004 and spent his first seven seasons there, highlighted by an AL Cy Young Award win in 2009. Following successful stints with the Brewers, Angels, Dodgers, Diamondbacks and Astros between 2011-2021, the eccentric right-hander returned to his old stomping grounds in 2022 and worked to a 3.68 ERA in 26 starts covering 137 innings.
His paltry 4.8 K/9 last year was a career-low and ranked as the worst K/9 of all 90 major league pitchers who logged at least 130 innings over the course of the 2022 regular season. But the 39-year-old showed terrific control (1.8 BB/9) and was generally able to induce more soft contact than hard contact to help pave over his diminished swing-and-miss stuff. Among the 585 total batters he faced during the 2022 campaign, Greinke surrendered only 14 home runs. That worked out to a 0.92 HR/9, putting him right around rising studs like Nestor Cortes, Logan Gilbert, Ranger Suarez and George Kirby.
Greinke can hopefully again serve as an innings-eater and clubhouse mentor for a Royals rotation that has undergone a few offseason changes but will still be relying on a lot of youth pushing forward. Brady Singer, 26, stands out as somebody who made significant gains in 2022, perhaps thanks in part to Greinke’s tutelage. Brad Keller, 27, and Daniel Lynch, 27, could use a similar type of molding.
Greinke figures to be named the Opening Day starter for the Royals in 2023, as he was last year. Singer and Keller project to fall in somewhere behind him, along with newcomers Jordan Lyles and Ryan Yarbrough. Kansas City finished 27th among all 30 teams in combined starter ERA (4.76) in 2022, despite Greinke’s contributions and Singer’s mini-breakout. KC’s combined starter K/9 of 6.9 ranked 28th.
genuinely hope he has some sort of resurgence. probably not going to happen but would be super fun to see.
Does he really need a resurgence though? 38 year old Zack Greinke pitching to a 3.68 ERA over 26 starts sounds pretty good to me.
There seems to be a fair amount of value to me, for guys like greinke to contenders that the industry isn’t seeing. 26 starts with a sub 4 era to the royals if they’re below .500 isn’t that valuable. That’s more valuable to the jays or Phillies for example who fancy themselves as fringe contenders and beyond. I don’t think I want him starting a playoff game for me but for 8 million in this day and age in baseball it’s a good gamble for a 5th,6th starter.
@iverbure You’re right, but if you can afford $8m for a 6th starter you either have a lot of controlled guys on your payroll, or you’re going over $300m given all the other needs on a 26-man roster.
Still, that’s exactly where a rich contender should be spending money. Keep guys off the mound who curse you with a 5.50 ERA and a lot of losses. The Rays don’t allow it, Neither do the Dodgers and Houston. The Rays do it with smarts, the Dodgers with money, and the Astros with both. No wonder they won’t miss Verlander in ’23.
Resurgence in what sense? He’s past peak, but he was still good last year.
At this point in his career, is he really worth $8.5-$15MM? If healthy and able to take the ball for 5 innings every 5 turns, that’s very expensive for what you will likely get. He had a great career, and there was a time he was worth that type of contract. Not now.
If he can win 67 games, he’s a lock for the HOF.
Have to probably pitch until he’s 44. But could be done. I mean Wainwright is 42 and still decent
to get 67 wins he might have to pitch until he’s 50.
Would’ve had a better chance to reach that milestone on a contender.
He is a lock for the HOF if he retires today.
He’s not going to retire today. He just signed a new contract with the Kansas City Royals.
I’m assuming that’s a joke. Greinke’s in. Not by a mile, but he’s definitely in.
17 complete games and 5 shutouts.
5 shutouts, tied for 1,176th all time. If he gets one more he can join 232 others tied for 944th place including Steve Avery, Neal Heston and Ben McDonald – nice company there.
Career 3.42 ERA and 123 ERA+ but he didn’t have to pitch late into games. ERA+ does not take into account having to strategize how to get a guy out the 3rd or 4th time through a lineup, only for park factors and opponents.
Can’t compare todays pitchers to those of the finish what you start era.
welp, then I guess no pitchers will enter the HOF after 2030.
Wonder how Chapman and greinke will get along lol
Chapman and anyone, really.
Yeah I bet it’ll be awkward because kc is so young. Not a good leader on chapman’s part.
I wonder if they’ll enter the HOF together
He’ll get to 3,000 K’s before his career is over with. But yeah, he’s already a HOF.
Oh hell yes
Future HOFer returns to KC. Love it!!
Why is he a future HOFer when schilling was not ?
Because Greikne knows not to talk himself out of the hall. Moral of the story: Don’t PO the people you want to vote for you.
Isn’t Zack weird Af? Also why should someone’s personal life have a demerit on their eligibility? Wasn’t Ty Cobb a racist POS ?
One injustice does not justify another.
In all fairness, the writers were racist too in retrospect to cobb
The people who voted for Curt and many of whom are also likely to vote one way or another on Zack almost assuredly had no vote or say in regards to Ty Cobb’s election.
The voting process is an individual thing not a boilerplate process.
So what might have been contemplated for Ty Cobb was potentially much different than what might be considered for Curt and or Zack. At least in relation to things outside of actual base statistics.
But also since Ty was a hitter and Curt/Zack are pitchers… I would dare say virtually all criteria are different.
Just to get Cobb out of the way: Cobb was a jerk, no doubt. But most of what is talked about came from an “autobiography” written by Al Stump. That book has been soundly debunked. Read “Ty Cobb Terrible Beauty” for a more realistic view of him. Also remember what was viewed as ok behavior in one generation will likely be viewed differently in another.
As for Schilling, technically there is a moral standard in the official HOF voting rules. Oddly enough I’ve only seen it used to keep someone out but never to get someone in. It’s just human nature to not want to reward someone if they have made you mad.
Couple of other thoughts: if you’re comping him to Mussina only got in at 76.7% of the vote. With 75% being needed to get in, Mussina just made it. So you’re only talking about a handful of votes difference. Also Schilling was on the Veterans Committee ballot. He only got 8 out of the 12 votes needed from a 16 member panel.
Is a 123 ERA+ over 3,247 innings HOF worthy? Kevin Brown put up a 127 ERA+ over 3,256 innings and fell off the ballot his first year with only 2.1% of the vote. Assuming most of the writers are still in place, Greinke has no chance.
Joe says, that’s the problem. The voters are more concerned about their own feelings and beliefs and can’t separate it from their job. If they can’t be unbiased, they should have their voting rights revoked.
Greinke has no chance at the HOF is the stupidest thing I have read all day. Congrats!
It’s gone on forever though. The reason Thurman Munson isn’t in the HOF is because he was a jerk to reporters. He has the numbers to get in especially considering his career was cut short.
And it’s not just reporters, it’s human nature. Don’t make me mad and then expect any favors from me. I’ll bet you’re the same way.
As I mentioned above, his margin of error for votes was thin enough anyway.
It’s not a favor to do your job. I don’t like most of the patients I deal with, I still treat them all the same.
Albert Belle was denied an MVP in favor of mediocre Mo Vaughn
Invalid comparison. MVP voting is like restaurant reviewing. Not similar to providing health care or saving lives
Who is going to judge if they are biased or objective?
Maybe since there is a morals clause in the voting rules, they feel like they are doing their jobs.
What? Nearly 3,000 strikeouts, 223 wins and counting.
Being weird and being a racist are a bit different.
Ra, you’d think that but you’d be wrong. Healthcare is a cesspool of horrible people doing horrible things just because.
Munson had a very short career for a Hall of Famer by technically playing in 11 seasons, but only 9 full seasons. There is a 10 year minimum.
By modern stats, he’s pretty iffy with 46.1 bWAR.
Now, of course, bWAR wasn’t around back when the writers were voting for him, but what was around were these items:
Hits = 3000 (Munson 1558)
HRs = 500 (Munson 113)
AVG = .300 (Munson .292)
Munson didn’t have any of the automatics, which were largely based on accumulated stats, and he didn’t have the batting average.
Munson did have the MVP and RoY and 7 All Star appearances afforded to him by the plethora of Yankees fans, but Yankees fans alone couldn’t carry him to the Hall of Fame.
Joe: I agree. Morals clause as well as mediocre defense is what kept Jeff Kent from getting elected to the HOF despite his “among the best” offensive numbers. Schilling may not be in the same boat as Kent but his boat was pretty close in proximity. Just saying….
martras when someone dies mid career in a plane crash, it’s hard to accumulate counting stats.
@Ra Tell me why 73% of the 98% of the electorate that rejected Kevin Brown will accept Zach Greinke with the slightly worse career stats? I’m not saying Greinke does or doesn’t belong. The voters categorically rejected a guy with a better career. What has changed that would prompt them to vote for Greinke when they didn’t vote for Brown?
No. Cobb was not a racist POS, he was just a POS
It wasn’t Schilling’s personal life that did in his chances at the HOF, it was his public life and his saying that journalists should be hung when its journalists that vote for the HOF.
Telling those same BBWAA voters to take him off the ballot didn’t help either. He was his own worst enemy..
Character is literally one of the voting criteria. Schilling fails that test.
Actually Cobb was not a racist. There was a reporter who was always saying bad things about him and the team so Ty kicked him out of the locker room after games. Pissed him off so he wrote an article about how he was a dirty ball player and a racist. Cobb was very pro about the black ball player and would actually go to the negro games and sit with them in the dug out.
Brown was named in the Mitchell Report, which is one thing you have to consider with voters. Whether it’s right or wrong to keep a player out of the Hall because of steroids/link to steroids is subjective, but what’s objective is that there are certaintly voters who heavily take that into consideration. Despite both Greinke and Brown having almost identical IP counts, Greinke has nearly 10 bWAR on Brown. Greinke has a chance of breaking 3000 strikeouts, and Brown came 603 K’s short of that milestone. Currently Greinke has 485 more strikeouts. Pitcher wins and losses might be the last stat you want to use to analyze a pitcher, but Greinke has a dozen more than Brown. In terms of accolades, both Brown and Greinke have been to six All-Star games, but Greinke has a Cy Young award to go with those ASGs, and more top five finishes in CYA voting. Not to mention Greinke has six Gold Gloves. You can compare their ERA+/ERA, and their innings pitched, but that’s only a fraction of what voters are going to look at. New voters are going to see a near-80 WAR pitcher. Older voters are going to see a guy who won over 200 games with six ASG appearances and a Cy Young award with some other awards to go wit it as well, and not a guy named in the Mitchell report.
Websoulsurfer, what test exactly? You don’t share his opinion or like how he talks but that doesn’t mean his character is an issue.
@mlb1225, very insightful, and actually hope the writers do put Greinke in the hall.
As a Red Sox i said it back then and I’ll say it again now: Albert Belle got robbed. 50 HR’s/50 Doubles all while tying the league lead in RBI’s and leading the league in runs scored. Albert was a one-man offense that year.
That said the media’s opinion of Belle can be summarized in statement from Bill Madden of the New York Post; “Belle’s boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers Association when it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame”
It most certainly was as Belle managed a meager 3.5% in his second year of eligibility to fall off the ballot
“The people who voted for Curt and many of whom are also likely to vote one way or another on Zack almost assuredly had no vote or say in regards to Ty Cobb’s election.”
Ty Cobb was one of five players elected to the inaugural class of the Hall of Fame in 1936. You can be pretty sure that none of the writers who voted then were voting on Schilling or will vote on Greinke.
No. Ty Cobb spoke out many times in favor of integration.
No. The Cobb garbage was started by “people” who like to trash dead whites. Cobb actually supported allowing blacks to play and donated tons of money for equipment for inner city youths. You’re brainwashed by that liberal bozo, Ken Burns. Who listens to a 70-year old guy with a Beatle haircut?
Nah Greinke is a HOFer. Don’t be daft sweety.
Why is people is quotation marks?
Thanks for that, Joe says.
I was among those disinformed by Merrill’s lies about Cobb, having heard them repeated in numerous articles, most of which are still archived on the internet.
Yeah Fink, once misinformation gets out there, it’s hard get rid of it. It’s the same with “8 Men Out”. That’s also been debunked but people still think its gospel.
Ty Cobb wasn’t a racist. That was debunked.
Grenke also has a couple silver slugger awards. For a pitcher a pretty good hitter
Schilling did not just piss of the writers. He pissed off everyone.
I’m just stating the facts. There are definitely players who got the nod due to their careers being ended short like Kirby Puckett 12yrs (51 bWAR) or Sandy Koufax 12yrs (53 bWAR), but Munson’s career was well short of those guys.
Munson was a very good player, but his greatness is significantly overstated by Yankees fans. In his last two seasons, he was already trailing off hard. He probably would have ended up a top 15-20 catcher playing the last 2-3 years of his career out before his career would have naturally ended, but he was already on a borderline HoF path.
Because the Hall of Fame voting has evolved.
Yes.
I think it would have to be worse than his to matter (like criminal).
He probably wasn’t any worse than the average white player of the time.
higher WAR than Carl Hubbell, Jim Palmer, Don Sutton, Bob Feller, Juan Marichal, John Smoltz, Don Drysdale…
Sounds like you might be in the wrong profession, DTD.
OK DTD/ATL1313, I will take your word for it. In fact, you are helping me remember something I experienced that would rather not think about.
Not interested in you moving the goal posts. Greinke has a very good chance of being elected into the HOF. At minimum, everybody would agree Greinke HAS A CHANCE.
You said “Greinke has no chance.” That’s entirely wrong and it’s a stupid thing to say.
Ugh, the dim Pitcher’s WAR argument.
Absolutely….and Zack is a good kind of weird anyway.
Good question about Brown. He certainly deserved better. I’m a KC fan and have been a Greinke fan at all of his stops but I’ve never agreed with the “he’s a lock for the HOF” stuff. I do think he has a good chance but he seems borderline to me. As for why voters who rejected Brown would accept Zack, I wonder if the ever growing bombardment of media content has something to do with it. We’ve heard and read “future Hall of Famer, Zack Greinke” for several years now. I liked Brown and kinda followed his career but I don’t recall hearing that much about his HOF chances while he was still pitching. Greinke’s ….uh, “uniqueness” and reputation as a likeable weird guy probably doesn’t hurt either. The media seems to get a kick out of his odd and awkward interviews.
Better a racist than a pedoKlown
That’s a myth regarding Ty Cobb. It was a smear job to ruin him
Zach’s weirdness is not at all the same as whatever schilling is
I think Kevin Brown ending his career with a thud on a huge contract (for the time) in the two biggest markets hurt his HOF chances.
There are 62 new BBWAA since Kevin Brown’s career ended in 2005. 48 since 2010 when he was eligible for HOF vote.
Brown’s close association with players who were known steroid users like Ken Caminiti and Paul Lo Duca was always troubling.
Then there is the Mitchell Report naming him as a steroid user.
“The Mitchell Report named Brown as one of a group of Los Angeles Dodgers implicated in steroid use. The report documents allegations by Kirk Radomski that he sold Brown human growth hormone and Deca-Durabolin over a period of two or three years beginning in either 2000 or 2001.”
Dodgers beat writer Bill Plaschke said that it was obvious to him and Dodger’s coaching staff and FO that Brown was on steroids. This article talks about that. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-dec-14-sp-plaschkela14-story.html
The reason Brown is not in the HOF is not his performance, its his PED use.
Wampum, the short answer is because Brown was a PED cheater and Greinke is not.
His character was an issue to the voters or he would have been in the HOF based on performance on the field. Kind of stupid to argue that it wasn’t.
Belle didn’t get in because his career was so short and wasn’t cut short by death or serious injury. Add to that being a jerk to both reporters and other players and that equaled no HOF for you.
He should go to work for InfoWars?
I think being named in the Mitchell Report ended Brown’s shot at the HOF. That and multiple BBWAA writers and voters noting in articles that they thought he was on steroids while a Dodger.
A degenerative hip condition is sort of his career being cut short by injuries.
Belle could have got in in a similar way that Kirby Puckett got in (though Kirby was 1000×s more likeable) as like Albert or hate him, he was an offensive force and pitchers did not want to pitch to him. Belle’s personality kept him out
Those writers are idiots if they said that. As if they could tell who was on steroids and who wasn’t.
Reliever Ryan Franklin tested positive in 2005 and later was named in the Mitchell Report. He was a typical lanky pitcher without any visible signs of juicing. Anybody who thinks they can ID a juicer just by looking at him is a fool. Pitchers have been suspended for PEDs more than any other position on the field.
The members of the BBWAA gushed over McGwire and Sosa before Big Mac admitted to juicing. Now they’re all born-again anti-drug cops. That narrative serves them and the suits in the league, both pretending that juicing wasn’t rampant and the tests caught the “few bad eggs” who juiced.
The whole business of banning juicers from the Hall is a farce. Victor Conte of BALCO said the tests were so easy to circumvent that “only the dumb and the dumber” got caught. Meanwhile, it’s a certainty that there are amphetamine users in the Hall, and amphetamines have long been classed by the IOC and WADA as PEDs.
And the worst part is Androstenedione wasn’t banned by MLB until 2004–three years after McGwire retired
@FPloyd – I have been trying to get that point across to no avail. I have talked to enough former ballplayers and those around the game, and this stuff has been so damned prevalent everywhere that that the fanbase would go ballistic if they really understood it. And the bubble guys are most affected…they are the ones that looked at the fact that it was an uneven playing field while they are just trying to get a shot at a contract, and many decided to do it as a defensive measure.
Again – not excusing it in the overall sense, and PEDS belong in the conversation to a point. But the known users vs. the unknown / unconfirmed users would be like comparing the % of Bugatti’s on the road vs. the number of Cadillac’s. And if people think that they are catching most of the users today they need to wake up. Not even close..
No. What is a farce is apologizing for people that cheated. That do not qualify for the HOF on 3 of the criteria given to the voters. It points to a serious lack of morals for the person trying to apologize for the cheaters.
Today? Nearly all get caught. The testing is so precise today that you are more likely to get a false positive than to get away with using.
I test all my workers because they use equipment that could result in injuries to themselves and other workers if used improperly and we get positive results for something that they admit they used 3+ months prior. The tests tell us how much they used and approximately when. We are not talking about the technology available in 2005.
My daughter in law is a very high level volleyball player. A player for another country that is a friend of hers was suspended for a drug and it ended up being shown she only handled her mother’s osteoporosis medication while giving to her, but never took it herself. That is how little of an amount these tests can pick up.
Dissembling about the scale of PED use in Major League Baseball while sweeping the rampant use of amphetamines under the rug is hardly a morally superior posture. If you think most of the juicers were caught and the Hall is squeaky clean, you’re indeed outinleftfield.
What was the first word of my comment?
Were amphetamines mentioned at all in this conversation? At all? Anywhere?
Brown used steroids and other PED and was named in the Mitchell Report. That is the reasoning that voters gave for not voting for him. That is all.
If you would apologize for steroid users and try to say that because others in the past cheated that its ok for them to cheat now you are truly a fink.
I mentioned amphetamines 3 hours ago. They were so rampant that clubs had two pots of coffee in the clubhouse: one regular, one spiked with speed.
“I don’t want to say guys are addicted, but it’s like putting on your uniform. You have your glove, your batting gloves, your bat, you take your greenie and you’re ready to go.”
—Chipper Jones (as quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)
Wake up, bro (but don’t pop a greenie to do it!).
I must say though, in regard to your “truly a fink” line — well played!
Gotta’ ask, based upon your handle. What is your take on Pink Floyd? Lean towards Gilmour or Waters in the Great Dysfunction. Prefer early Syd Barrett influenced, or the later Waters / Gilmour stuff?
So you ARE trying to say that just because someone else broke the rules decades ago its ok to do it now. At least you clarified that.
You’re looking at it backwards, outinleftfield.
It’s not that players now should be allowed to cheat. That’s a matter of MLB rules and, in the case of controlled substances, U.S. law.
The Hall of Fame is not Major League Baseball, much less the U.S. Dept. of Justice — it’s a museum. It was started as a tourist attraction by a hotel owner in a town suffering from the effects of Prohibition on the local hops industry and from the national effects of the Great Depression. It was started to bring dollars to the town, and it was based on a fabricated legend that Abner Doubleday invented baseball in Cooperstown.
It might make you feel good to believe the pious mythology and public relations yarns surrounding the Hall, including that it’s a scrupulously clean shrine limited to paragons of virtue. But it’s a lot of hokum.
To keep Bonds out because he juiced is to pretend that he wasn’t batting against pitchers on PEDS (remember, players on the mound have been suspended more than at any other position), and that scores of competing hitters weren’t juicing too. Worse, it’s to pretend that there aren’t juicers in the Hall already, and amphetamine users, and ball-doctorers, when we know there are.
So, no — don’t lift the ban on PEDs in MLB or stop testing (btw, they reduced PED testing substantially in 2020 when they were testing for COVID, and they stopped testing altogether during the lockout). That’s where cheating should be a concern — in the league.
But do stop the charade pertaining to the Hall of Fame. The Hall doesn’t regulate baseball — it’s a tourist attraction aligned with a bunch of baseball writers. They have no regulatory authority, nor should they. They want to obscure the true history of the game when they should be presenting it honestly. And because the Hall has promotional value to the owners, MLB wants the Hall to obscure the truth too. They don’t want the public to know that Bud Selig and his co-conspirators in the Great Lakes Gang forced out Commissioner Fay Vincent, who wanted to FINE THE OWNERS for harboring drug cheats, and they gave his job to Selig, who turned a blind eye to PEDs for years and gave special awards to Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Clemens — an award he invented — because it was “good for baseball” (i.e., the money was good).
Rather than ban a handful of scapegoats to pretend the Steroid Era never really happened, they should tell the whole story. The Smithsonian doesn’t distort the nation’s history by pretending that slavery never happened. They have a special exhibit to inform the public about it because it’s part of our historical truth, and that’s what a history museum is supposed to do. Slavery happened. And the Steroids Era happened. And decades of widespread amphetamine use happened. That’s the truth.
I’m not in favor of cheating in baseball. Far from it. But neither am I in favor of cheating the public of an honest history of the game. I hope you’re not either.
Terrible take ra.
Terrible take ra
After threatening violence to another poster, you are in no position to talk about whose “takes” are terrible. LMFAO
Just slink away.
dude why are you so obsessed with me? Seriously you have a problem.
Just laughing at a keyboard cowboy.
You drunk again?
Isn’t Schilling telling the writers to take him off the ballot a lot like telling your wife to go ahead and leave while she’s walking out the door with her bags?
The job of a baseball writer is to write about baseball, and players who are jerks to reporters are impeding that job. HOF voting is a perk, it’s not what they get paid for all year. You can’t fight somebody at their day job making it more difficult for them and then expect them to be unbiased toward you in their after hours voting perk.
DTD, apparently it is, or he would be in the HOF. Even the veteran’s committee said no to Schilling.
Belle made it a point to be a jerk to everyone and that probably killed his chances. That and his bad defense. Incredible hitter. One of the best I ever saw play.
It’s unfortunate. Schilling’s well over the line to make it into the HOF. 3261 ip with a 127 ERA+ when 3000 ip and a 125 ERA+ is sufficient? Too bad he felt he had to talk. Put up half a Cy Young season in the postseason doesn’t hurt his case.
I’m no Yankee fan. I am a fan of excellence. Munson’s 11 year career gave him 46.5 WAR with a 130 OPS+ combined with elite defense as a catcher. Yankee fans are not exaggerating Munson’s value. Given the fact his career was cut short by a fatal accident, I think he should be in the HOF
HOF voting is governed by 4 rules that apply to cheating. If they cheated, they don’t belong in the HOF according to the rules of voting.
You very much did say that because there are guys in the HOF from previous decades that it should be ok for guys that go in today. That cheating should have no bearing on their inclusion in the HOF.
You cannot avoid that fact. You said it multiple times.
Belle’s short career and short peak kept him out, not his personality.
12 seasons, and he was bad or played little in 3 of those seasons, had 3 more ordinary seasons where he barely deserved a lineup slot, was pretty good in ’99 but his defense scuttled his year. That leaves 5 peak seasons, where he was extremely good but hardly historically great. Particularly for a corner guy whose fielding was around league worst, that’s not close to enough—particularly in the context of Dick Allen, who played 15 years to Belle’s 12, with a 156 OPS+ to Belle’s 144. If Dr. Strangeglove didn’t get in, Belle sure as he!! shouldn’t.
It shouldn’t for the most part, but reality says it does.
Pitcher wins and losses may not be something you look at, but HOF voters do.
Belle had a severe hip injury. Ended his career.
The first player to be suspended for juicing was Alex Sanchez, a speedy OF who was lucky to hit one or two HRs a year. He was awesome at hunting past the pitcher for IF hits. You just can’t assume who did or didn’t use.
Whether banned by MLB or not, it was illegal.
Again, the “but what about…” Argument. The fact that something else happened has no bearing on PEDs. Wrong is wrong.
The Baseball Hall of Fame is a Shrine to the game. It honors the top players. Players who cheat, and are publicly caught will not be honored. That’s different than preventing an honest history of the game. Have there been players who cheated and got in. Most probably. But if they dishonored the game publicly, they did not. Greenies were made public in Ball Four, but was one players word, and he got banned. That’s not the same as the league hiring an investigator.
Keep your head in the sand if that’s more comfortable for you, stymeedone.
I already posted Chipper Jones’s statement about the pervasive use of amphetamines. Now read these:
‘Amphetamines have become as much a part of the clubhouse scene as card games and hot feet. In a Kansas City Star story last year, former Royals outfielder Brian McRae recalled how there were always two pots of coffee brewing in the clubhouse — one conventional and the other laced with stimulants. “I had to make sure I got the unleaded,” McRae said. …
‘A player agent and a big-league coach, both speaking to ESPN Insider on the condition of anonymity, said stimulants are pervasive in the game.
“Typically, a veteran player finds a way to get them and he supplies them to the other guys,” the coach said. “In the old days, a player might pop one to get up for a day game after a night game. Now guys use them more and more. They’re passed out like candy in the clubhouse.”’
– reported by Jerry Crasnick for ESPN
As for your story about no known cheaters in the Hall:
‘Gaylord Perry (pitcher, Giants, Indians, Rangers, Padres, Yankees, Braves, Mariners, Royals, 1962-1983)
‘Perry, a Hall-of-Famer, compiled his 314-265 record on the wings of a Vaseline ball. He’d stand on the mound, touching his cap or his sleeve, either loading up the ball or trying to convince batters he was doing so. In 1982, he became one of the very few pitchers to be suspended for doctoring the ball.
‘Gene Tenace, who was Perry’s catcher with the Padres, said the ball was sometimes so loaded he couldn’t throw it back to the mound. Indians president Gabe Paul defended Perry: “Gaylord is a very honorable man,” he said. “He only calls for the spitter when he needs it.”‘
‘Whitey Ford (pitcher, Yankees, 1950-67)
‘Ford used his wedding ring to cut the ball, or had catcher Elston Howard put a nice slice in it with a buckle on his shin guard. Ford also planted mud pies around the mound and used them to load the ball. He confessed that when pitching against the Dodgers in the 1963 World Series, “I used enough mud to build a dam.” He also threw a “gunk ball,” which combined a mixture of baby oil, turpentine, and resin. He kept the “gunk” in a roll-on dispenser, which, the story goes, Yogi Berra once mistook for deodorant, gluing his arms to his sides in the process.’
‘Don Sutton (pitcher, Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, Angels, A’s, 1966-88)
‘Late in his career, Sutton was often accused of scuffing. In 1978 he was ejected and suspended 10 days for defacing the ball, but when he threatened to sue the National League, he was let off. Was teammates with Gaylord Perry for a while. “He gave me a tube of Vaseline,” joked Sutton. “I thanked him and gave him a piece of sandpaper.” Umpires took the allegations seriously, and sometimes gave him a good going over. Once, he left a note inside his glove for the men in black. It said, “You’re getting warm, but it’s not here.”‘
https://www.espn.com/page2/s/list/cheaters/ballplayers.html#:~:text=Biggest%20cheaters%20in%20baseball%201%201.%20New%20York,Whitey%20Ford%20%28pitcher%2C%20Yankees%2C%201950-67%29%20…%20More%20items
All of the above are in the Hall. Even Hank Aaron admitted in his autobiography that he took an amphetamine pill before a game. He said he didn’t like the effect and never did it again — the point being not that it had a big effect on his career but rather how prevalent greenies must’ve been for even Hank Aaron to have been persuaded to try them.
“Who is going to judge if they are biased or objective?”
No judge needed – they’re biased. Everyone has some “bias” they bring with them when voting on performance or character (or anything, really). When voting in them both a person’s internal biases form the framework for his decisions.
However, they try to minimize biases that go too far one way or another from any single individual by establishing a multi-voter committee that has the freedom to select players.
In this case, enough of those voters employing their intrinsic standards or morality/character/performance evaluation said, “no” and felt strongly enough to not be dissuaded by his performance.
Not sticking my head in the sand. Dealing with reality. The League hired an investigator for PEDs. It was national headlines. The greenies era was also wrong, but not as public. Benefit of the doubt in those days. Guilty until proved innocent during the PEDs era, backward though that is. Players alledged to maybe have thought about doing PEDs are automatically considered guilty. The HOF, under these circumstances, won’t honor someone actually caught. I’m glad I have you combing for references that do nothing to my statement. Keeps you out of trouble. I never said there weren’t players who used speed in the HOF, nor did I ever deny there were players who used speed. I never mentioned anything about scuffing the ball. You, yourself, stated that the HOF is not the game. I simply pointed out to you, in agreement, that it is not. It is a shrine to Baseball players honored for their achievements and legacy. Known cheaters are not honored. You seem to feel it should show an “honest history” of the game.
That’s not what the Hall of Fame is, nor was intended to be. Its there to sell tickets as you pointed out. People will pay to see Heroes. Cheaters and scum, not so much.
“Known cheaters are not honored.”
Yeah, they are. As I already demonstrated.
Perry was suspended for cheating while he was still an active player. What’s more, his autobiography, “Me and the Spitter: An Autobiographical Confession,” was published in 1974. He was inducted into the Hall in 1991.
Sutton bragged about cheating while he was an active player, and “Umpires took the allegations seriously.” He was ejected and suspended for scuffing the ball while an active player, and only got off by threatening a lawsuit against the league. He made no secret of his cheating: he taunted the umps over it and joked to reporters about it.
You might like to whittle down the definition of cheating to one class of violation — the use of steroids — but cheating is literally defined by the codified rules of baseball, and all of the players I cited violated those rules.
Your declaration that my evidence does nothing to your argument merely asserts that your understanding of what constitutes cheating is arbitrarily limited. Both A.J. Hinch and Jeff Luhnow lost their jobs and were suspended for a year because their team cheated, and their Astros players were found guilty of cheating by the Commissioner’s inquiry, and it had nothing to do with steroids.
If you can’t understand when you’re wrong, that’s unfortunate, but it has no bearing on the legitimacy of my argument.
stymeedone, upon rereading my two previous comments to you, I’m ashamedly struck by the snarky tone I used in addressing you, and I apologize for that. It’s something I’m aware of and try to work on, but too often I fail. I don’t like being talked down to, and I assume you don’t either, so, again, my apologies.
Brown was implicated in taking steroids, Greinke is not.
For those that limit their thought process to the few known names and the HoF debate, this excerpt from the chat yesterday clearly outlines a part of what I reference above and what FP is discussing as well.
It was ALL around the game, and to a certain extent they still are.
————————————————-
John: How do you feel about players under the suspicion of steroids from your Era not making the HOF?
Tim Fortugno:
Hi John, this is a tough one. Let me try to spin here. I don’t have “personal proof” on anyone using or not. But, I do know playing in that ERA was tough. Now that my pitching career is over … I can say, the playing field was not even. I “may have lost” or “may not have lost” major league service time due to those who had an advantage. So, who’s to say my 2 years 1 day service time wouldn’t have equated into 4 years 2 days of MLB service time???? That’s my spin. I’ll leave the HOF conversation up to those who want it.
Fink, a large number of the players from the steroids era have exhibits in the museum portion of National Hall of Fame and Museum. They are commemorated there.
What they don’t have and should not have is a plaque honoring them among the very elite of players in a single area, the Hall of Fame.
Visit it sometime.
Steroids were banned in the original CBA when MLB said that any substance that was against the law to possess without a doctor’s prescription was against the rules of baseball. Steroids have been a felony to possess since the mid-1960s.
Faye Vincent mentioned anabolic steroids specifically in a memo. A year later Bud Selig sent out an almost verbatim memo to the teams, the MLBPA, and the players. They were definitely against the rules.
What they didn’t have at the time was testing. That didn’t come about until 2004.
Well, many steroids were not illegal until around 1990, which is when Congress took a two-part action:
1) They made “steroids” a separate drug class, and 2) Congress implemented a framework for chemical composition changes of steroids so newly developed steroids were illegal (which was not the case prior).
Also, MLB did not ban steroids until 1991…
https://www.espn.com/mlb/topics/_/page/the-steroids-era
he did not say that retweeted a shirt that said “Rope, Tree, Journalist: some assembly required”.
No he didn’t. Over 60% of the population agree that transgenders shouldn’t be in the women’s restroom.
My point was that whoever would judge the biases of sportswriters are also inherently biased. So we agree, I guess.
Even though bathroom sex crimes are 99.9% committed by cis-gendered people.
But sure, make them targets of violent men with repressed urges by demanding they use mens’ rooms. The bathroom crime rate by the “straights” can rise even higher.
Crime is irrelevant. Women deserve their own private places, including restrooms. To suggest otherwise is holding the preferences of men over women which is inherently unequal and inappropriately dismissing women’s rights.
Women’s rooms have private stalls, so they still have what you say they deserve.
But crime is relevant to many who claim trans people are committing crimes in bathrooms and use that as the reason why they cannot use the bathroom that matches their current gender. It’s bullshtt, sure, they just hate transgender people and many other additional groups usually.
Should a man who transitioned from being a woman be forced to use the women’s room, if you maintain that a woman who transitioned from being a man must use the men’s room? I would think that might make certain women feel more uncomfortable, seeing a man in the women’s room.
Don’t those trans women also “deserve their own private places?”
They have “private stalls?” Dude, seriously? How about the locker rooms the bathrooms are housed within? How about the women that don’t want to go to the bathroom in a stall right next to a man? How about the parents that don’t want little girls in the “girls’bathrooms” with grown men? It’s sickening, and it’s a prime example of how depraved segments of our society are. Your argument is to usurp the natural rights of an entire sex of people (half the population), so the percentage of a percentage “feel safer.”
Second, there are no “trans women” as a separate class. That’s an argument renaming something that already exist, called a “biological man.” Moreover, your moral equivalency of “trans women’s” private places to that of females (as in one in the same) demonstrates just how little you respect actual female’s rights. This is going backwards from the women’s rights movement. If you say they have need of a place separate from both, that’s different. But that also has zero impact on crime in bathrooms since men can simply walk into the women’s without question in your world.
Your argument has so many holes in its flawed foundation that you have to intentionally obfuscate reality in order to present your side of it.
Whole lot of fallacies you present while trying to put words in my mouth that I never said. Do better.
A career ERA of 3.42, Almost at 3,000 strikeouts, 6 gold gloves, 6 time All Star, a CY Young.
I’m denying Zack isn’t a HOFer but Schilling has eerily similar stats and he’s not in!
If I were a member of the BBWAA, I wouldn’t let Schilling’s comments affect my vote. I’d vote him in, based on his game. But when a player asks the writers not to vote for him and says he doesn’t believe he belongs in the Hall, you have to wonder if it was a sour grapes play on his part:
“I will not participate in the final year of voting. I am requesting to be removed from the ballot,” he wrote. “I’ll defer to the veterans committee and men whose opinions actually matter and who are in a position to actually judge a player. I don’t think I’m a hall of famer as I’ve often stated but if former players think I am then I’ll accept that with honor.”
To keep a player out on the basis of drug use or the “morals clause” is to validate the lie that drug use hasn’t been rampant in the league and to willfully ignore the fact that the Hall has already enshrined pill-poppers, wife-beaters, philanderers, drunks, racists, and ball-doctoring pitchers.
There are some members of the BBWAA who don’t go along with the farce, but too many of them make the BSBBWAA a more accurate name for their club.
Dan Shaunessy’s comment that Schilling laughing at the journalist-rope-tree joke was where he draws the line and invokes the character clause reeks of childish immaturity and pretentiousness.
I don’t know if I’d vote Schilling in to the HOF, I’d have to do more research honestly, but the labeling over this is too extreme. Laughing at a joke on a tee shirt being equated to support of murder is insane. I’m not contending that he is smart or diplomatic, but I doubt he truly supports murder – that’s just silly.
I hope he doesn’t support murdering journalists, but I honestly don’t know. If he does, he’s a sicko with a warped perspective — but that doesn’t have any bearing on his performance on the ballfield, and that’s all I’d consider if I were voting.
I’d vote him in on several counts.
First, his career WAR is well above many HOF pitchers (26th in bWAR and 20th in fWAR), and durability counts in my book.
His 83 complete games in an era when relievers routinely took over is impressive (Pedro had 46).
He’s 17th in strikeouts.
His Adjusted ERA+ is the same as Bob Gibson’s and Tom Seaver’s.
His FIP bests Don Sutton, John Smoltz, Greg Maddux and Whitey Ford.
He’s 10th in K/BB.
He’s 18th in Adjusted Pitching Runs.
He’s 26th in Win Probability Added.
And his postseason record is insanely good — 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in 19 postseason starts, and 4-1 with a 2.06 ERA in seven starts in four World Series.
Plus, I factor in something not quantifiable. Unlike the BBWAA, I consider what the institution is called: the Hall of FAME.
Is Schilling famous? Hell, yes. The bloody sock? Three starts and the MVP in the 2001 World Series?
I hate his politics and the nonsense he spouts, but that’s irrelevant. He was a great pitcher and hugely famous before he was notorious. To me, it’s not a tough call. He belongs in the Hall.
Well said! I like his politics, but He is what he is, a HOF!
I don’t know if he actually supports murder just because someone is a baseball writer but he sounds like he supports the murder of many other people.
@pinkployd Of course they deleted the messages when we started talking about same-sex marriage. God forbid a gay woman have her voice heard on a patriarchal website. Anyway, no I don’t support a patriarchal institution like marriage. Only in it to be able to sit by my wife’s bedside in a hospital, if needed.
The posts are still visible on my browser, mydogcrowder.
BTW, do you actually have a dog named Crowder? If so, what breed of dog?
This happened to me recently where nearly a whole thread disappeared. I thought it was moderated out because we had Bible verse references in it, but it reappeared later. I wonder if it’s just an issue within the app or when viewing from mobile devices.
Yes my dog crowder is a pitbull. She’s my beautiful baby.
Ahhh that makes sense. Definitely could be that. Thank you.
Dang I really went on a drinking rant the other night huh. Ra really got to me saying women can’t marry women and that they can’t like MLB. Even gave my addy out haha my wife would kill me if she found out lol
I’m glad to hear that crowder has a loving home. Give her a belly rub for me.
You would ignore the HOF instructions on voting? Then its a good thing you are not a voter.
The Veteran’s Committee gave Schilling a lower percentage of votes than the BBWAA writers. That says volumes.
“Your daddy and granddaddy were cheaters and scum so it should be ok you are too.” Its really sad that you just said basically that. NOTHING that was done in the past justifies a wrong in the present.
Yes sir! I’ll tell her fink ployed woves her lol
I never said women could not marry women,. But the Assessment website does not match up with your claims.
But you couldn’t be by your significant other’s hospital bedside during the pandemic
I’ve got to ask… Crowder? Where did that name come from? Obviously nothing wrong with it, it’s just a really unique name for a dog, especially a pit, so I assume there’s a story behind it.
Also, I had a red nose and he was awesome. A great dog, super well-behaved. Have a big Rottie now (about 135lbs).
when I got her as a puppy, she was covered in flees and taken from her mom way to early. It was clear she was not taken care of and possibly abused. On the way home from a sketchy hick town were we had met the owners at, my wife had her in the passenger seat and bugs were just jumping off her. I had never seen something so bad…… Soon as we got home, I gave her flee bath after flee bath and within a week she was doing so much better. She was a lot happier. Well with that happiness came sitting on my lap, sitting on my head, snuggles at my feet and even though it was supposed to be the wife’s dog she took to me as her master. Just would not leave me alone and within a week we changed her name after one day I was napping on the couch with her on my head, and I said “damn sweety talk about a crowder-er” because she was constantly crowding me lol and it stuck.
Yes, it’s all about keeping you quiet. You figured it out.
“Patriarchal.” Hilarious. As if men in power ever treated the great mass of men as anything other than cannon fodder.
We know why, Krusty. I never understood any baseball reason why Schilling wasn’t elected to the Hall while Mike Mussina was.
It means that being a Hall of Famer, it’s not about what you achieved within the field, it’s about the whims of the voters. No one told the “writers” that they are not voting for miss congeniality.
Schilling would be in if I had my way. He’d shut up once in a while if I had my way. It is notable that Schilling is the only player blackballed who didn’t break the rules or laws while in uniform.
Yup. Frankly I think that Schilling is a complete dunderhead and an ahole. But he should be in the HoF.
Not losing any sleep over it however, as it is his own idiocy that keeps him from simply low-keying things and allowing folks to focus on the baseball career.
Schilling was not blackballed or banned. He just did not receive enough votes, like a whole lot of other guys.
Actually, the BBWAA HOF voters are told that they are voting on the basis of character, integrity, and sportsmanship on and off the field.
Schilling would be in if he could have learned to stop talking once in a while.
What someone has to say should not affect their baseball accomplishments. Schilling should be in. Isn’t Ty Cobb in the HOF? It’s hypocritical to to put one in but not the other.
Different eras. Voters in Ty Cobb’s era were also racist. Schilling also asked he not be voted for by journalists because he doesn’t respect them and thinks some should be murdered.
Actually Harry, what a player says publicly is covered in the instructions to voters. Schilling blew it by being an idiot and by advocating violence against journalists. By the criteria the voters are given, he doesn’t belong.
Well Greinke has a Cy Young and Schilling doesn’t also Greinke is a decent person while Schilling seems like a pretty gross human being with extreme views like stating that journalists should be lynched.
Schilling would’ve won a cy young in 2001 and 2002 if not for 1A randy “bird killer” johnson
Every year the second best pitcher would win a Cy Young if the 1st best didn’t that’s how awards work
Yeah, great point, Schilling would have won the Cy Young if he was the best pitcher those seasons….
Ye boy but what I saying is randy was an outlier. Every year there is a second best pitcher you are correct but RJ AND Curt were worlds above the rest. Example being Jacob Degrom winning in 2018 and 2019 the second place winner probably wouldn’t have won in an another year.
“his public opinions are different than mine, therefore he’s a gross human with extreme views”
So in your mind being pro Lynching isn’t extreme?
Okay. Nice try trying to hide the fact that you are Jeffrey Epstein
Busted!
I hope you answer scottstots on that one, Kayrall. I think some of us would like to know if you actually have no issue with the idea of murdering journalists. I would also be curious if you’re willing to explicitly state that this isn’t an extreme view.
This is politics aside. Because I don’t think it matters who your political party is if you’re suggesting people be murdered.
Is Schilling’s opinions relevant to his on field accomplishments? No, they’re not.
“Are…”
Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
I don’t remember anyone saying they were. Someone insinuated that he was only labeled extreme by people because they don’t agree with him. Now we are trying to determine if murdering journalists is extreme or not. Quite the mystery!
Ra, way to contribute absolutely nothing other than to point out that my phone added an s where there was supposed to be one.
Everything there is about the game itself. Thanks for proving he should be in.
Then again, there is the sheer gall of the false equivalency fallacy. If you want to have legitimate disagreement over fiscal policies / guns vs. butter / the sane spectrum of free speech disparities and so on, that is called civic discourse.
If we want to say that calling for public lynchings for folks that you do not like; overturning elections where you do not like the result and so on is just a difference of opinion, then we need to take things to another level.
To be honest, it was a statement about a tee shirt joke that read, “rope. tree. Journalist,” to which Curt Tweeted “So much awesome here.”
Looking at this objectively and without political lenses, Curt openly denied supporting this as an actual action.
Was he simply saying the joke was funny? Most likely. Was he saying, “awesome,” in a sarcastic manner – that’s what he publicly claimed. Was he actually supporting murder of journalists? No, that is highly doubtful and there’s no evidence to support that.
If every person was held accountable for everything he put in writing, without the opportunity for context, nearly everyone would be classified in some extreme way.
As for Curt being “racist,” is there actual proof that he is? To compare him to openly racist Ty Cobb seems a bit……extreme. That’s a genuine question because I don’t know, honestly.
One thing Clipper, when Schilling was asked about the tweet, Schilling basically said if they were too stupid to understand what he was implying it was their fault. He was given the opportunity to take the high road or at least better articulate what he meant but instead he just doubled down on being a jerk.
The key words are integrity and character. If those were missing he probably gets 75% or more of the votes but there are obviously serious questions about his integrity and character as a person
I could see him doing that. But, does that mean he meant it, or does that mean he was joking and they should’ve realized that? I’m not arguing he’s the pillar of the community, but for people to claim he supports lynching is a bit extreme.
I agree with you Clipper that he likely doesn’t support lynching reporters but there are too many (even one is too many) extremists that do. I’m not just counting lynching reporters. There’s Qanon, the pizza place that supposedly had stuff going on in their non-existent basement, etc. etc. It’s just non stop.
By helping to fan those flames I can’t blame anyone who wouldn’t vote for him. And his HOF candidacy is borderline anyway.
Yet Hilary can kill people *facepalm people can have any view they want. Besides journalist are bad people anyway that lie cheat and hide important facts so things can fit their narrative. I personally do not care one bit what happens to them. curt deserves to be in and everyone knows it.
Cmon Clip, this recipe never called for any nuance, way to go and ruin a dish best served cold.
@MDC – Sure, people can hold whatever opinions work for them. You have the right to an opinion, no matter how silly.
What is not a right – that everyone holds a valid opinion, and that all opinions are created equal. The Unabomber had some strong opinions…suicide bombers hold strong opinions and so on. The children that are shooting up their own schools have some strong opinions. Hitler had some very strong opinions. You get the drift.
A blanket statement that “journalists are bad people etc.”…that opinion does not rise to the level required beyond elementary Neanderthal. failing kindergarten. Try a bit harder.
Disagree. My interpretation is “integrity” and “character” in a general sense, not just on-field.
mydogcrowder- people can disagree with both Schilling’s beliefs and how Hillary handled Bengazi. They’re not mutually exclusive. As for the rest of your comment, well, it’s clear you’re just a bad person. And Schilling is not some first ballot Hall of Famer, anyway. It was always very likely going to come down to the wire for him.
Straight to the insults carver. That’s the elementary you’re talking about. Talk with your words not your feels.
Carver included sound logic and examples to back up his statements; you’re having difficulty even completing a single coherent sentence.
Klown, Do you bother to look up the stats before you make comments like that?
It was Scherzer and Ryu in 2nd in 2018 and 2019 respectively and they were both worthy of the award.
Scherzer’s 2018 numbers would have won the award in most years. 2.53 ERA, 220 IP, 300 SO, 0.911 WHIP, 168 ERA+. He led the league in IP, SO, H/9, SO/9, CG and SHO. His 2018 season was as good or better than either of his CY winning seasons.
Ryu was arguably better than deGrom in 2019. Better ERA, better ERA+. If he had thrown 20 more innings he would have won.
DTD, it has nothing to do with his on the field performance, but it has everything to do with his being voted into the HOF.
Perhaps, if you reread what you wrote, you might understand that you leave yourself wide open for a critique.
Simply the act of proclaiming something does not even rise to the level of an opinion. This is what the many don’t seem to want to take into account…especially the alt right followers and devotees at this moment in time.
“All journalists are bad…” does not rise to any level at all. Stating that “I don’t care what happens to them…” implies that you along with many others don’t care if they are harmed or killed simply because of their job. Seriously – who thinks that is worth typing out, much less voicing in any way?
There are “journalists”, and then there are journalists. Many are flawed, and the media is heavily flawed. But it is also necessary to any relatively free society. There – that is a starting point.
DTD, What part of integrity and character did you not understand? Advocating for murder meets neither criteria. Schilling doesn’t belong in the HOF.
“Besides journalist are bad people anyway that lie cheat and hide important facts so things can fit their narrative. I personally do not care one bit what happens to them.”
– mydogcrowder
“The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers & be capable of reading them.”
– Thomas Jefferson, 1787, Letter to Edward Carrington
@mdc – You were “accused” of voicing a very ill-considered opinion, not of being a bad person. You have been told that you make proclamations without substance and followup. You now react with “give me your addy” for heavens sake.followed by that garbage. To not coin a phrase…wow.
My account 2 literally called me a bad person can you not read or comprehend? Let me know which one.
@mdc – Sorry…but I did not accuse you of that. I am not paying attention to what anyone is saying about you on a thread. Not my concern.
Clearly you are a fairly angry and reactive person with a harsh agenda. No need to engage with me anymore with that approach, thanks. Happy to engage with a different approach. Take care.
Thank You! Everyone shoul like Thomas Jefferson if you are an American! Freedom is freedom for everyone. It is not conservative or liberal!
Damn phone. Unfortunately, many others get this construction wrong in recent years.
If you really want action, you should post yours instead, big talker.
If that’s to me you’re welcome to come to mine. My addy is 2014 high st it’s in portsmouth ohio
Come on what is it mine is 2014 high st. I live in Portsmouth ohio.
Pro flying the Confederate battle flag is “actual proof.”
It’s also traitorous.
huh, i dont.
Integrity, Character. Not about on the field performance. About the person, not the player.
Its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Best On-the-field Performance.
Schilling was interviewed about that tweet and doubled down on hatred of journalists. He had a chance to disavow the statement on the tshirt and refused.
Cobb was the opposite of racist. He was an AHOLE with a capital A, but he openly advocated for integration of baseball and came from a family that fought for racial justice. Please stop spreading thoroughly debunked info about Cobb.
His actions in not trying to debunk that he supported lynching of journalists means that he supports it. Its really not that hard to understand.
The HOF has stated that the voting instructions to BBWAA writers are not limited to play on the field.
The HOF has said that it applies not just to on the field behavior, so you are correct.
This will get lost in the thread, but I have to say it’s just thrilling that a commenter (Fink Ployd) quoted Thomas Jefferson about the fundamental importance of a free press in a thread on an article about a mundane sports contract.
Fantastic, and kudos!
It is well known that many voters only gave their vote to those players who flattered them.
Because Greinke hasn’t been caught defrauding the taxpayers of Rhode Island like Schilling has.
https://stathead.com/baseball/player-comparison.cgi
Go to this page. And get back to me if you still think the HOF rewards the best players or it’s a popularity contest.
But the presidents son can okay gotcha. Who cares if he didn’t pay some taxes he’s still a hof’er
Crowder- It’s pretty clear that you’re just playing one side of the political spectrum, which you’re entitled to do, but considering there are a billion things wrong with each party, it just makes you look biased and silly.
What’s the addy come on
What part of Hall of FAME do you not understand? That is why 3 of the criteria for voting have nothing to do with performance on the field. Its also about what kind of person the player was during his playing days.
mydogcrowder, this isn’t a dating app.
What? Your comment doesn’t even make sense lmao I’m literally laughing at you. And yes I am a woman, what are you sexiest? Only an old male out of the 60s would think women don’t follow baseball lmao how sad. I’m pretty sure you’re the unintelligent one. You gotta work on those comprehending skills of yours. You just straight said I was lying about being a female all because you didn’t expect me to give my addy which you asked for. I gave it to myaccount2 as well. No response. It’s 2 females in this house So come on, come. It’s 12:45 I’m wide a wake don’t be a scardy cat ra.
Awwuh lil scardy boy ra. If you are afraid to come or give your addy at least give me your FB so we can meet over facetime. I have some things I want to say to your face which I know you’re to scared to do.
You also wrote: “Married to my wife thanks.”
So just another flexing liar with a keyboard making violent threats because your politics nerve is hurting.
Grow up idiot. Your schtick is boring.
Regarding your comment “And yes I am a woman, what are you sexiest?”
Yes dog, I am sexy but I am not sure I am the “sexiest.”
LMFAO!
Hello dumdum who do you think a gay woman marries? Certainly not a male. How ignorant can you be seriously. It’s two females here in my home, me and my wife. The fact that your scared is funny. The fact that you don’t understand a gay woman marries another female and not a man is also hilarious haha I gave you my addy now you won’t show. It’s sad.
Literally not funny at all. Clearly you don’t know how to read lmao again so sad ra.
Addy now. I gave you mine so come on liar.
So, mydogcrowder, you’re a gay woman married to a woman who supports the party that held both the Senate and the House when they proposed and passed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, banning federal recognition of same-sex marriage by limiting the definition of marriage to the union of one man and one woman.
The same party voted 211-47 last year against the Respect for Marriage Act – a bill that would’ve codified into law Obergefell v. Hodges, the 2015 Supreme Court decision that legalized same-sex marriages. One of the Republicans voting against it was Pennsylvania Rep. Glenn Thompson, whose own son is in a same-sex marriage.
Sen. John Cornyn, one of the highest-ranking Republicans in the Senate, used the confirmation hearing of Justice Brown Jackson to opine repeatedly that the court erroneously invented the right to same-sex marriage, and Justice Clarence Thomas has recently signaled that the court should move to strike down the right to gay marriage.
Are you and your wife legally married? If so, would it matter to you if your marriage were outlawed?
Won’t read past the first part because I personally don’t support gay marriage. I married my wife young we were 25 and over the years I’ve realized how much I hate it. We are in a higher tax bracket because we’re married. I ask her for a divorce everyday but she says no. Do you know how much we pay out because of being married? Let me tell you it’s a lot. It’s also a patriarchal institution which I don’t support. I’m literally married to my wife at this point just so I can be in the hospital with her otherwise that paper literally does nothing but harm financially and you have to admit that.
Of course I’m just being an ass to ra and account2 because they think their views trump everyone else’s. It doesn’t. Everyone is allowed an opinion (except ra because they are pretty bad takes lol and he said give him my addy to meet up which I DID give to him, now he won’t talk or come) he also says I’m a liar because I can’t be a female married to a woman and that women can’t follow baseball like what? I’m literally a gay woman that supports baseball, have been that my whole life. Point is no I do not support gay marriage, out of support for my community. It’s financially binding, makes you pay the government MORE, is a patriarchal institution and is just a piece of paper. I wish it was outlawed for those reasons. If you love someone a paper isn’t going to change that.
This is from Pew Research:
‘Surveys conducted by Gallup in 2017 find that about one-in-ten LGBT Americans (10.2%) are married to a same-sex partner, up from the months before the high court decision (7.9%). As a result, a majority (61%) of same-sex cohabiting couples were married as of 2017, up from 38% before the ruling.
‘As with the general public, Americans who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT) are most likely to cite love as a very important reason for getting married.
‘In a 2013 Pew Research Center survey, 84% of LGBT adults and 88% of the general public cited love as a very important reason for getting married, and at least seven-in-ten in both groups cited companionship (71% and 76%, respectively). But there were some differences, too. LGBT Americans, for instance, were twice as likely as those in the general public to cite legal rights and benefits as a very important reason for getting married (46% versus 23%), while those in the general public were nearly twice as likely as LGBT Americans to cite having children (49% versus 28%).’
If these figures are even close to accurate, a majority of gay Americans want the right to be married. Doesn’t it seem to you at all selfish then, to want them to be deprived of that right by law simply because you don’t like the institution and the tax laws that are applied to married couples?
And to change the subject briefly: these sillyass challenges to meet other posters on a message board, presumably to assault them — just stop it, please. It’s idiotic.
You’re just a liar. And you doxxed yourself. So you either lied about your address – which people can research and find a recent obit about – or your identity as a woman. Or maybe you identify as a woman, but that seems like you’d want to shoot something up if somebody *identified* as a woman.
I know how to read; you can’t spell. Because you never got your GED.
But if you really do think I am the “sexiest” then all I can say is “Aw shucks!”
I have not lied about anything, including how stupid, illogical and dishonest you are.
Go to one of your conspiracy theory websites and yak at your fellow morons.
@ dog:
OK Santos!
Again, what? You literally make no sense. You won’t come to my house, it is my address, you won’t facetime me either and on top of that you’re making dumb statements about how I don’t have a GED (I do) and that I’m not a woman…. Yes I am. Who cares whjat you think anyway lmao you’re just a scaredy cat. You won’t even facetime lmao you could meet both my wife and I but nope to scared, so sad.
ouch, you really got me. Ahhh man that sucks how can I ever go on lmao It’s clearly a autocorrect lmao You’re to funny. But I guarantee you’re not sexy in the slightest. You aren’t even man enough to meet a female who wants to say something to your face lmao
who is santos? Your dog?
I do have a question though. How is wanting to meet someone to say something to their face wrong? I even offered facetime but ra is scared. I’m a 5ft 6 woman that weighs mearly 180-190lbs. Where did I say I wanted to fight him fink? All I said he was scared to have something said to his face? Just wondering.
From your challenging tone and mentions of fear, I assumed you meant you wanted to fight. I’m glad I was wrong.
BTW, one more word on the marriage issue.
You say it’s a patriarchal institution, and it’s true that its origins are patriarchal. But do you think a society of random, irresponsible, absentee, deadbeat fathers would be better for the children of this country than marriage laws with provisions for alimony and child support? I have to say no. It seems to me that men — particularly irresponsible, selfish men –would have more to gain from eliminating marriage than women and children would. Men can’t get pregnant.
I can agree with that to a certain extent but the only thing that matters to me is being able to be at my wife’s bedside if god forbid something happened to her. I dont care about men or women I care about MY family. It’s probably harsh to put it that way but here’s a good example. A friend of mine knows I tend to vote republican (sometimes democrat as it’s all about policy to me not who you are what you say you’re going to do IT’S ACTION) and one time she asked, “but how can you do that to your people” Um what? my people? what, women? LGB? Because I don’t support none of that. I don’t support coming out of a closet because straights don’t have to do that why should I? Besides people don’t need to know what i do in the bedroom they can clearly see us as we are lol I mean I’m pretty butch and my wife is very feminine. The real issue is other people’s opinion don’t matter when it comes to your life only yours do. If you support something go ahead, I won’t try to stop you. But at the same time, I can support what I want freely. ya know. It’s literally just an opinion it’s not law. If it was law you can try to change it if you want.
Lol, you think your views trump everyone else’s, too. Come on, don’t lie.
“If you support something go ahead, I won’t try to stop you.”
But if you support politicians who want to ban same-sex marriage, then you are trying to stop people from legally marrying people of their own sex. Your vote enables them to change the law back to a prohibition.
You said earlier that your wife refuses to give you a divorce. It seems obvious to me, based on that, that she likes being married, although you don’t. Does her wish in that regard not matter to you?
Your vote is an action. You can’t take the action and then disavow responsibility for the effect of that action. If you vote your support for a politician whose opposition to same-sex marriage contributes to outlawing it, you contribute to depriving your wife of a legal right she seems to value.
There are politicians who want to ban pit bulls. Bans have been enacted in 15 states. Can you vote for a politician who proposes such a ban and still say you’re not voting against your own right to keep Crowder?
It’s one thing to say it’s up to a person to marry whoever they want to, and you really don’t care what they do. It’s another thing to help pass a law saying that the state has the power to prevent them from marrying the person they want to marry.
Just as it’s one thing to say you don’t care if your neighbors like your pit bull because dog ownership is a personal choice, but it’s another thing to say you can be arrested for owning crowder and the state has the right to take her away and kill her.
Some things to thing about.
Autocorrect does not change “sexist” to “sexiest.” You misspelleded and can’t even take responsibility for your error, trying to blame it on something else.
Lol seriously. No OS autocorrects “sexist.”
No my views are MY views they have nothing to do with anyone else.
Of course I wouldn’t vote for someone that wants to ban my pitty. That’s why I vote republican and democratic. I strictly vuote on policy. And not fake I’ll say and not do policy. If a republican has 3 policy’s I stand for and a democrat as 4, I’m going democrat. That’s how I’ve always done it. Sure some things I don’t agree with but that’s on BOTH sides. You know it and I know it. We both know it. And just an fyi I have NEVER voted for a president. I vote locally and state. The government at the presidential level, every single one of the big 4, are TERRIBLE, I wouldn’t vote for one if my life depended on it lol I don’t think it’s selfish to have my own personal beliefs views and values, no. Same way you do. You are correct my wife says she loves being married and it’s not like I’m going to go behind her back and file for a divorce. That would be stupid, hell she’d probably leave me for something as huge as that but she still understands I’m not a fan of it because it’s just a piece of paper that I had to of course pay the government for. Either way it’s important to her and that’s why I don’t go out and fight against it. She’s welcome. She’s the love of my life for a reason. We’ve been married a long time that’s not going to change. I can’t tell you about straight marriage (born this way) but I know this same sex marriage hasn’t done anything to change how I look at her over a decade now. It’s a piece of paper that just hangs on the wall lol government intervention is the problem. Hell you can’t even take $600 out the bank without being reported now. That’s crazy. Let people get married if they want, let people not get married if they want the problem is the government thinks their hand matters. It doesn’t they should have no say on legality. True or false? The state taking my dog and putting her to sleep is the problem. They should have no say on legality. True or false?
Also that’s what 2A is for. To fight against government intervention so if they came to crowder I would have no problem using my rights.
Again who cares ra I know it did so again, you’re just a liar. I’m talking to fink who actually makes sense and doesn’t call people ignorant, dumb, stupid and illiterate all because THEY can’t take responsibility for being a scary cat lmao to funny. So this is between fink and I, please see your way out of it sweetheart. I won’t answer you again until I either get your addy or FB to facetime you. Like I said there’s things I want to say to your face :)p
It had to. It’s either autocorrect or writing to fast. It’s a Motorola g something don’t know what you expect from it lmao but I’m done talking to you to as you’re just like ra. You won’t even facetime you hide behind a computer screen / phone screen. You have to admit men are sad these days as you’re the perfect example.
mydogcrowder, when I was in my teens and twenties, people of my generation were inoculated with the idea that the government was an evil entity controlled by sinister people to whom we attributed nearly supernormal powers of subterfuge and manipulation. The government was the enemy.
Now I have to laugh at how much credit we gave to some really incompetent, bumbling people, painting them as super-villains when they were pitiful knuckleheads.
Yeah, some of them were highly intelligent, corrupt, self-serving jerks who did a lot of damage. But do you know whose fault that was? It was our fault for taking our hands off the wheel and giving them the keys to the car.
We voted them in, or we didn’t bother to vote and just let them waltz in with other people’s votes. We didn’t have to give them power. But we completely lost sight of what was left to us — a democratic republic. “A republic — if you can keep it,” said Ben Franklin.
We neglected the tiresome, unglamorous work of taking responsibility for what OUR government did. OUR government. It was more romantic to play the outsider rebels too cool and too hip to get suckered into participating in the Evil Empire.
The minute you accept the idea that the government doesn’t belong to you, you lose the only power you have. And it’s a cop-out. A childish cop-out.
Over 400,000 American soldiers died in WWII to keep fascists from taking over our country and the countries of our democratic allies in Europe. To toss away what they died for is shameful.
But owning the government also means that you have to own responsibility for what it does — and that’s a drag. It’s easier to point fingers and rant about the bad guys in Washington, the “Deep State,” the “New World Order.” They’re responsible for all the bad stuff; you’re not.
Now we’re beset with cynical opportunists who see how easy it is — and how useful to them it is — to paint OUR government as a malevolent conspiracy of super-villains. They’ve put the “government is the enemy” narrative on steroids. They see that conspiracy fantasies are easily more appealing than the mundane work of democracy. Fantasy battles with super-villains are much more exciting.
The truth is, they benefit from the fact that in a nation weaned on TV, there’s a shortage of grown-ups with their feet on the ground willing to take responsibility and participate in the government that their forebears bled to preserve for them. Fake revolution is more fun.
Nearly half the voting-age citizens in 2020, 48.2%, didn’t bother to vote. And then they sit on the sidelines and carp about the government that they can’t be bothered to own, and the power they can’t be bothered to exercise.
I’ll just agree to disagree. You know the average person’s views are not heard in this country. I get mine heard at the city and state level though which is nice. Anyway it was nice talking with you. I’ll tell crowder you’re a good dude 🙂
Thanks. Back at you. Crowder’s opinion counts for a lot with me. I love dogs.
@ Fink – Nice work, it is great to see an adult that has an educated grasp and a relaxed temperament talking about politics. Such a rarity.
We have far too many out there that are only focused on their personal interpretations of their “rights, their precious opinions, their entitlements, and their grievances” against the world. All while they ignore the responsibilities of being a part of a civic society unless it is convenient.
The word is spelled “comprehension” skills.
Until you pass your GED, you should refrain from guessing who is more intelligent than you.
It’s spelled “you’re,” not “your” when it is a contraction of the words, “you are.”
Now go out and get that GED, person.
“…you can meet my wife and ME,” not “you can meet…I,” in English.
There are classes at community colleges to help you.
I reacted to your violent rhetoric. Never did I say anything that could be falsely construed as “think(ing) their views trump everyone else’s.” That’s a stupid thing to say because everyone can read that I never wrote anything like that.
BOING!
Yet again, “you could meet both my wife and ME,” in English. In this country we do not say “you could meet… I.”
Not sure what your definition of GED is, but I meant an educational certification that you couldn’t possibly have.
LMFBO!
That is spelled “TOO funny,” in English.
lqtm
Dude let it go. No one cares but you. Maybe it’s time to get off your computer?
“TOO funny” in English.
“Between Fink and ME,” in English.
Keep crowing about how *intellignet* you are.
And now, even “sobered up,” you are back to attempting keyboard intimidation, suggesting violent conflict.
You are a transparent LIAR.
“TOO fast,” in English.
ROL!!! You’ll never learn.
And “you’re just like a Ra…”
Yes, I am like a Sun God, thanks!!!
Maybe it’s time to get a better “autocorrect.” Yours only seems to let the misspellings go. And supposedly change correct spellings.
Comedy gold!
Why would anyone FaceTime you? Serious question. It’s the most bizarre request. I’m not just handing my phone number out to random strangers. For all I know, you’ll try to use it for nefarious means. It’s weird you assume these statements wouldn’t be said to someone’s face, though. You’ve never gotten into a political argument in person? I would absolutely say these things. If I were talking to a stranger and they said they support the lynching of journalists, I would 100% question their integrity– it’s not that bold of a move.
Anyway, I’m tired of getting notifications for this thread, so this is the last I’ll say and you’re free to believe whatever you would like to believe on the topic or about me, but I have zero interest in FaceTiming a stranger (for that matter, I have zero interest in FaceTiming my friends and family either. I’ve never done it and never will).
Proper phrasing can change. If you you wrote “my wife and me” instead of “my wife and I” when I was in HS and college, it would have been incorrect. While I know that using me, instead, is now also correct, I had never heard the former was now incorrect.
It just depends on which case is appropriate, subjective (also called nominative) or objective.
Subjective: “My wife and I love baseball.” – “My wife and I” are the actors, the subject of the sentence.
Objective: “They sent tickets to my wife and me.” – “my wife and me” is the object of the preposition “to,” and objects of prepositions, like objects of verbs, take the objective case.
If you said “He insulted my wife and me,” “my wife and me” would be the object of the verb “insulted.”
And you’re absolutely right that what’s considered proper can, and does, change. In informal usage, it’s commonplace to substitute objective pronouns for the subjective. Sometimes the proper form sounds too formal and is even felt to be snooty: e.g., Knock-knock. “Hello, who is it?” “It’s me.”
I is a subject. It is not an object. Thus, “for he and I” is doubly incorrect. Meanwhile, “he and I went somewhere” is correct. Nothing has changed in grammar regarding this.
Zack the anxiety attack is back!
thats disrespectful to a man who has been open with his struggles with anxiety.
Lol tstats
With an average season he will finish top five all time Royals strikeouts and top ten Royals career wins. If he wasn’t a Royals Hall Fame lock before he will be by seasons end. Borderline MLB Hall Fame at this point and I’d say that’s most likely.
I guess those trades freed up enough cash. Hopefully he has one more decent season left in him
Good to see him hopefully retire in KC blue.
Another starter on the move? It was hinted last week that additional trades were being lineup for the Royals.
Greinke the next best thing in KC, after Mahomes.
@Capt
Except generally, Greinke has a lot more control on the mound and doesn’t throw behind the batter like apparently Mahomes did in college as a reliever. Lol.
https://www.royalsreview.com/2021/2/2/22261206/a-look-back-at-the-baseball-career-of-patrick-mahomes-ii
He should finish his career in KC, hope he puts up a great season.
Baseball Refrence doesn’t show him pitching for the Angels after he was traded from the Brewers. But he did.
Yes it does.
2012 28 LAA AL 6 2 .750 3.53
You’re right. My bad.
It happens.
Nice overpayment
Hope I’m wrong, but I’d rather have had Zack in the ATL for $8-10 than Morton at $20…..
Now that the HOF election is won with skee ball tickets, the Royals are banking on their hat in the hall more than his name.
Last stop on the Hall of Fame Farewell Tour.
If Grienke got $8-10 million, no way in hell is Wacha getting $15 million a year.
there’s a reason Wacha remains unsigned. I think his agent must have thought at least one team would get desperate enough to overpay for his current asking price, but so far… nobody has broken
That certainly took longer than it should have.
Finally. Glad they gave him what he wanted. The man was the face of the franchise for a while, I’m happy he will be able to retire in KC. He will probably have a year similar to last year.
If he pitches 130 innings at an ERA of 4 they will probably be satisfied. As to his HOF credentials, yes, he’ s got the stats, even if he doesn’t make 3000 K’s. He personality is what it is–he wouldn’t be coming back if the Royals didn’t want him on the team or in the clubhouse. I don’t see the comparisons to Schilling. Greinke’s an odd duck, Schilling spent a lot of time deliberately angering people. Personally, I think Schilling earned his way in on performance, but I wouldn’t want to be a writer/voter and have to put my personal feelings aside to show how big I was.
Schilling has the numbers and postseason history to be in the Hall of Fame regardless of how he acted outside the game. Normally I’d say character matters, but there are those in the Hall of Fame that have questionable characters. Greinke deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, he doesn’t have any baggage.
Greinke also won silver slugger awards and has more playoff hits than Mike Trout.
Nice veteran pickup for KC. Greinke will lead that rotation in innings.
I’m still shocked that someone thinks Jordan Lyles is worth paying to play baseball in the year 2023.
DarkSide830;
There will be at least 75 pitchers that suit up in MLB that are worse then him.
Make that at least 100 pitchers.
Awwuh Samuel look you unmuted me big boy
Terrible take Samuel
Yay! Reset the market (or what’s left of it) and it feels good
Nice to see Greinke finishing his career with the Royals. Not sure how much he has left in the tank as his fastball faded down the stretch, but he survived on placement and movement. It’d be nice if Greinke’s success afforded a resurgence in placement and movement when it comes to drafting and development. Right now, every high school kid focuses on throwing a fastball as hard as they can until their arm explodes in the hopes they’ll be drafted.
I agree, scouts analytics departments jerk off to velocity without looking at what else the prospect has to offer.
WAR is an overrated sabermetric without taking into account GAMES PLAYED AND INNING PLAYED. You must deduct whole numbers from 1-2 for games played or for a single pinch at-bat in a game without playing defense. They must deduct 1-2 whole numbers for games played lower than 100 games or 2-3 whole numbers if lower than 115 games played.
Keith Woolner and Bill James did not consider or imagine the reality of a player or MLB or contracts being advertised or negotiated as being the best, based solely on WAR playing only a few games. He obviously didn’t anticipate anyone thinking he could lead just one team to a World Series with 20 home runs and 60 RBIs. Today’s blind WAR fans think that roster protection is just a matter of luck and they don’t know how to calculate synergy. They think that a leader could be a cheater since it only matters blah blah blah yada yada yada.
Don’t go to hire a replacement with lower value, contracted on purpose to make a player look better. That is not cheating only bad management or administration, and only Pete Rose should be penalized for that.
It was interesting that every baseball writer crowned Julio Rodriguez as ROY in September, ultimately defending their stances with his 6.2 to 5.2 bWAR advantage over Rutschman although Rutschman had a higher WAR/inning average. (Rutschman .062 to Julio’s .055. WAR flavors are based partly on the positional advantage, but people who quote WAR must accept that as part of their claim. Will be interesting to see how the WARs compare this season.
PS: I am not contending WAR/inning is how things should be determined.
WAR is based off plate appearances and innings pitched. i.e. More innings = higher multiplier of WAR. You’re welcome.
Wow, you can read. Way to go, you’re a big boy today!
PS, you will want to look up the meaning of “magnifier” before you misuse it again.
*multiplier* too 🙂
Hope Greinke pitches until he’s Tom Brady’s age.
I’d like to see Greinke go for the 3 thousand Ks mark this season.
Is Greinke a hall of famer? Personally I never thought Scott Rolen would be.
Good point, I probably had Greinke higher up on my potential HOF list
Well he’s got the huge goggle sunglasses at least.
Good for him and KC, hope it works well.
I have absolutely no memory of him with the Angels.
I remember it now once mentioned, but I wouldn’t have remembered before reading this. His path out west to the Dodgers first went briefly through Anaheim.
So very quick math, $13MM (maybe 50K under?) if he makes it to 140 innings?
To me that sounds like he gets a $8.5 million base + $450k for getting to 90 IP + $450k for each additional 5 IP up to 135 or $4.05 million + $300K at 140 innings pitched and then an additional $300k for each additional 5 IP after that.
So if he pitches matches the 137 IP from 2022 he gets a total of $13 million?
If he matches the 171 IP from 2021 he gets a total of $15.1 million?
Please check my math.
One of my favorite players because he doesn’t hide who he is. Wish I watched him in his prime (didn’t get into baseball til 2013). Go Royals! Also cheers to asocial folks. Let’s celebrate happily separate.
All for Royals here. https://fantasy.espn.com/baseball/league/join?leagueId=2053656043&inviteId=b96b53e6-5d3f-433e-9c39-55d8578b2f97