TODAY: An update on Painter will come Sunday or Monday rather than today, Thomson told reporters (including Alex Coffey of the Philadelphia Inquirer). The manager said Painter “is in good spirits,” but Thomson otherwise declined to give details on the nature of the testing or whether or not Painter or the team are looking for a second opinion.
MARCH 3: Phillies right-hander Andrew Painter, arguably the top pitching prospect in all of baseball, reported feeling “tenderness” in his elbow and has been sent for testing, manager Rob Thomson announced to reporters Friday (link via Scott Lauber of the Philadelphia Inquirer). The skipper did not provide further specifics on the type of tests being performed or the organization’s level of concern. More information is expected to be provided tomorrow.
Just 19 years old, Painter was the No. 13 overall pick in the 2021 draft and has soared through the Phillies’ system to the cusp of MLB readiness in less than two years’ time. He pitched across three levels in 2022 — Class-A, Class-A Advanced and Double-A — working to a combined 1.56 ERA with a massive 38.7% strikeout rate, a strong 6.2% walk rate and a tiny 0.43 HR/9 mark through 103 2/3 frames. Both Baseball America and MLB.com rank Painter as the game’s best pitching prospect and one of the top six overall prospects in the sport.
Despite his youth and lack of Triple-A seasoning, Painter was vying for a spot in the Phillies’ Opening Day rotation. Philadelphia currently has Zack Wheeler, Aaron Nola, Ranger Suarez and offseason signee Taijuan Walker locked into spots, but Painter has been competing with Bailey Falter (among others) for the fifth and final place in Thomson’s rotation. He just made his Grapefruit League debut earlier in the week, tossing a pair of innings against the Twins and allowing a run on three hits and no walks with one strikeout. Painter tossed 29 pitches in that outing, regularly hitting 99 mph with his heater.
[Related: The Phillies’ Fifth Starter Possibilities]
There’s little sense in speculating as to what type of injury, if any, Painter may be battling. The Phillies are concerned enough to send him for testing of some degree, which is cause for obvious trepidation among the fan base. Then again, it should be emphasized that it behooves the Phillies to proceed with as much caution as possible, given Painter’s upside and long-term value to the club. To this point, there’s no indication that the team expects a serious injury to be at play.
If Painter were to miss time, be it a brief shutdown in camp or a stay on the injured list once the season is underway, Falter’s grip on the final rotation spot would likely tighten. The 25-year-old appeared in 20 games with the Phils last year, 16 of them starts, and pitched to a solid 3.86 ERA through 84 frames. Falter’s 21.2% strikeout rate was a bit below average, but his 4.9% walk rate was among the best in baseball — tied for 20th-best among the 159 pitchers who tossed at least 80 innings.
perfect name
What, real Thom Yorke?
what, real lucky single?
OK, first test; is the elbow connected to the arm bone
Is the arm bone connected to the thigh bone
Is the thigh bone connected to the head bone
Is the painter getting too sketchy?
Phillies are Paintered into a corner with this news.
Painted?
Welp…that’s a huge bummer.
Hey Von;
Fast forward to the 2029-30 offseason – Painter is a FA……
Padres owner Peter Seidler offered Painter’s agent Scott Boras a 20-year $1.25 billion dollar contract as he says he’ll do anything to have the Padres win their first World Series. Upon hearing this Steven Cohen of the Mets – still promising his fans a World Series appearance which he hasn’t delivered on – is now is offering 25 years at $1.5733 billion along with his own private jet and a compound in Manhattan.
Solicitating other bids Mr. Boras called the Rangers still hoping to attain their first playoff spot since 2016 and knowing they want to make a splash moving into their new $3.25 billion dollar park which features beauty saloons and tattoo shops, said no thanks as they’re committed to a long-term contract extension with Jacob deGrom – while he’s only thrown 24-2/3’rd innings in the past 2 years he’s thrown 2 encouraging bullpen sessions the past 10 days.
Mr. Boras has a call in to Mr. Sendler to suggest he counter Mr. Cohen’s latest bid.
Nah degrom will double those innings for sure
I hate your post.
I said last offseason that the Phillies were in trouble with their pitching. Wheeler had forearm/elbow problems down the stretch and saw a quick velocity decline once he hit 80 pitches. Nola has never pitched as many innings as he did last year when you include the postseason.
Painter was supposed to be their answer if one of the aforementioned two went down, and if they didn’t, they’d have one crazy good rotation. Now their backup plan is likely down and out, and they will be relying on Nola and Wheeler A LOT all season after they were used and abused last season.
@RyanD14 I don’t think they were relying on Painter to even make the rotation this year. He’s just impressed so much at every level, so this is more of a bummer for fans. The Phillies rotation is better off than it was last year. Wheeler, Nola, and Suarez are a very solid 1-3. Walker and Falter as a 4/5 with Plassmeyer as a possible 6th and a very strong bullpen? I’m pretty happy with the Phillies pitching as a whole. Best rotation they’ve had in decades.
@VonPurple best rotation they’ve had in decades??? Not even close. Maybe a decade and that’s not saying much since the Phillies have been terrible since the last time they had a good rotation.
Their rotation was among the Top 5 of All-Time in 2011.
Roy Halladay
Cliff Lee
Cole Hamels
Roy Oswalt
…. And you said their current rotation is the best they’ve had in decades.. what an embarrassing comment.
Apologies! I literally meant to say over a decade. The 2011 rotation being the last one that was better.
My point being, Phillies haven’t had pitching like this in a very long time.
RyanD from the top rope!
Embarrassing comment from the self-proclaimed “smartest guy in the room”
Haha. I’ve proclaimed the very opposite often. I don’t change my username after embarrassing myself either.
Don’t forget Joe Blanton who was productive.
Last pitcher to hit a WS jomer.
Joe ‘Heavy B’ Blanton.
cohen – What name is Bloom posting under?
I hate this even as a Braves fan.
Not what we wanted to hear about in Philly, but yeah…this is not really about this year’s rotation. I will be on pins and needles until we know what is going on with him. Tremendous talent.
I love the 2011 rotation more than most but a rotation of Wheeler, Nola, Suarez, Eflin and Gibson took us further than the four aces did. The baseball gods can be brutal.
Yup. And we won a WS with Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Kendrick and Blanton. Baseball is weird. I do really like the 2023 rotation though. It’s the best it’s been since the glory days of 08-11.
It might derail him for a year or two in worst case scenario but then he will have a better then new arm and dominate.
Surgery is never a guarantee and unlikely to result in a “better-*than*-new” arm. At best, he would be back to full health.
Horrible news, hope he’s ok. The sport needs as many young and bright stars as possible and he really looks like the real deal.
Turns out the human body wasn’t designed to throw a baseball super hard over and over.
That stinks for Philly fans. MLB pipeline had me excited to see this guy, but you always know what’s lurking around the corner for pitching prospects.
…oh no…..As a lifelong Phillies fan, I must assume the worst for now… Forget him breaking camp, just handle the elbow…. Time to move on for the sake of a late season call-up.
Let’s look to Falter/Plassmeyer. as the 5.
@von many young guys keep quiet, play through the “tenderness” and then play through the pain until they have a major problem. A lot of maturity in this kid to say something. …….and if it turns out it’s already bad, zack can give him a lot of advice.
Yea. Agreed. He looked good in his start, but Phillies don’t need to rush him. I think at this point, Falter/Plassmeyer will get the 5/6 spot. Painter is going to be the real deal down the road, but health is priority.
A former major league pitcher once told me that all pitcher’s arms hurt. Guys just have to learn the difference between normal soreness and injury.
The idea that this is news is laughable. Obviously your elbow is “tender” after pitching
That is a truism…
please no tommy john
Bumpy- It’s not a question of if anymore but when? 1 1/2 years off and a slow ramp up to be cautious, it’s always bad news but he’s really young.. That’s in his favor if it’s bad news.
Maybe a 19 yr old should not be throwing 99 right out of the gate.
Agreed, but to be honest what human being that can throw the ball 100 MPH is gonna be like, no I’ll throw 90 instead so I don’t ruin my elbow. Absolutely zero.
A lot of times it is throwing instead of pitching or bad mechanics that cause arm injuries.
I know the average fans will say fix those but instruction has to be received and bad habits that took a lifetime to develop are hard to break.
So you’re saying you’re an above-average fan then?
Hmm. Interesting.
There are so many reasons it happens. To blame it on mechanics is wrong. So you draft a guy, Maybe his thing that makes him hard to hit is his wind up, Hiding the ball, arm angle. So now you bring him to camp and you change his windup, His arm angle, you teach him a pitch he’s never thrown, different grips, You might even be CAUSING more damage than you’re saving. Every teams Pitching coaches have their ideas but you need a complete strategy all through the system to be healthy and successful.To just go blithely to fix his mechanics is wrong.
nolan ryan could pitch 100 +miles per hour.however he only did it a few times the 4th time through the batting order,thats why he pitched so long.tom seaver is another example,of knowing how to pitch and not throwing 100 miles per hour in the first inning.ROCKER49 you are wrong to say any human being,that can throw 100,will do it every pitch..nolan ryan is human and he didnt.he also had quite a few no hitters.
tom seaver is another example,of knowing how to pitch and not throwing 100 miles per hour
========================
A lot of that depends on how good your secondary offerings are. There are guys out there that have to throw 100 when they are behind 3-1.
It’s like telling a RB to not make hard cuts to avoid a tackle.
If they’re trying to change his whole pitching mechanics, And teach him a new philosophy, You need to start him in A ball, maybe as a reliever, Small sample sizes and see how he feels. Then you slowly ramp him up, Hopefully with Pitching coaches who have the same ideas. Anyway, And this is just a guess, But I’m pretty sure that wasn’t done by 19 years old.
Anyone throwing 99 mph is putting a lot of stress on their body. Not breaking down is the exception.
In all honesty it’s not as bad as it seems, objectively speaking. Obviously it’s horrible for Andrew and surgeries can be unpredictable; but TJS is obviously very common now. In fact, during one of the recent Yankees broadcasts Michael Kay was discussing TJS & young pitchers with Nelson. He brought up the fact that many young pitchers expect to have TJS at some point and harbor the feeling that they just want to get it over with.
It seems crazy, but in another way, it makes complete sense. As a young outstanding pitcher that throws 100MPH, it seems that the rule is TJS now, not the exception. With the prevalence of the surgery it may be a relief to get that over with before he hits the Bigs.
I’m not downplaying TJS or trying to make it seems like an exciting venture for these guys. I’m sure this is Painter’s worst nightmare coming true. I’m speaking generally to the fact that young, hard throwing pitchers today are acknowledging they may need TJS at some point, but also that there’s still a fantastic pitching career once their through the grind of the recovery. Many times players end up throwing even harder too.
I hope for the best outcome for this kid’s testing. But if he needs TJS, he will get through it and likely be in the Majors in his early twenties, without a looming TJS over his head.
Unless, of course, he is never the same pitcher after TJS. It happens.
Hoping for good news, I’m looking forward to see him pitch. (Well, assuming he’s in the majors I’m looking forward to see him pitch any time except for any of the 12 or 13 games the Phillies play my favorite team.)
That’s a shame.
Just another day in Philly sports.
Darkside you’re one of my favorite/best commenters on here, but c’mon. Phillies unexpectedly make the WS, Eagles make the Super Bowl (having won one 5 years ago). Tough loss by the eagles I get it for sure. Phillies seem to be really trying to win though, and the guy is young and talented.
Oh, the last year has been great, I just fully expect bad things to happen around here. Sixers and Eagles drama, Flyers can’t get a trade done, and now this. Not fun today.
It’s all good. I’m probably still a little upset about the Phillies taking down the Braves last year lol. Thought they legitimately could repeat. Eagles and Phillies look to be set up nicely for the future.
uh-oh! if Tommy John makes an appearance, Painter is not going to be MLB ready for 2 years at least.
Jeez already with tenderness in his elbow at just 19 years old…
How fast is his fastball? Makes sense.
why can’t we have nice things??
hope the kid is healthy and it’s nothing more than Spring Training twinge
Oh boy. Hope it’s nothing serious and we can see this talented young arm in the coming epic NL east battle
Another fantasy target bites the dust.
What a talent, that’s too bad.
I think he tweeked his elbow blow drying Marsh’s hair in the clubhouse before the game. This according to Buster Olney
Marsh’s hair is a symbiotic organism. It’s naturally wet. It’s also carnivorous.
Bad news for baseball. This kid has the goods.
Imagine all the lulz from Phillies fans if this guy pitched for the Mets.
Just go back to all the deGrom injuries. No Phillies fans were laughing. Still, it’s fun to make stuff up I guess.
I didn’t even know the Mets had haters. I thought 95% of journalists had East Coast bias, based on the hype they get. This is quite a revelation.
And it begins
Oh no! He looked so dominating in spring training. You never want to see.
They throw too hard, people!!
The next Grover Cleveland Alexander has been reduced to the next Dick Ruthven!!
dick “i closed out game 5 of the 1980 nlcs” ruthven is a legend!!!
The Phillies could do worse than to open the season with Falter in the 5th spot. As we saw with Syndergaard last year if they feel like they need another starter down the stretch they’ll get one
Yea. This is less of a concern about this season, and more of a concern for a potential future ace. I still like the Phillies rotation a lot.
Please lets get the Tommy John Surgery ball rollin in 2023! Looks like we might have our first customer in this guy. Extension season is over now lets get the 2023 Tommy John Surgery train rollin. It’s all the rage!
Gotta love the trainers “testing” injury by squeezing and pulling. “Does that hurt.” “Yes.”
TJ for sure. Nobody throws that hard, that young & doesn’t end up getting TJ surgery.
@pjmcnu: Dwight Gooden did and never had TJ.
Nolan Ryan?
Sorry to read this.
Amateur pitchers are vastly overworked.
There is an epidemic of “Tommy John” surgeries in High School now.
The Phillies will take it very slow and conservative with Painter.
They have depth to go on and compete for the playoffs even if Painter goes down.
He never should’ve been considered for the rotation. High school righties are considered among the most risky choices in all sports. Most teams would be pretty happy having Falter as their #5.
When I hear or read the words, “Elbow pain” the first thing I think about is TJS. Can only pray that this won’t be the case for Painter.
Watched him warm up in the bullpen against the Twins in Fort Myers this past Wednesday. Lots of loud pops. One fan standing next to me asked Garret Stubbs, “How’s your hand?” and Stubbs just smiled at him.
This kid is the real deal. JMHO, but hope he opens up at AAA. Let him start 2023 in a less pressurized environment so he can iron out anything that needs ironing out.
JMHO, but he ain’t gonna need that ironing board for long,
I think Falter was always the plan tbh. Painter may be called up during the season, but I doubt he would’ve been there from the start. Set-bakc or not.
That’s MLB these days…. Don’t get too excited about any “prospect,” especially a pitching prospect. “There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.”
All the Dodger fans who think LA should not trade Bobby Miller and Gavin Stone must assume these guys are immune to the dreaded forearm-tightness.
A lot of over reactions to a sore arm.
Yes. But then again, so what?
Every TJS announcement starts with “forearm tightness” or “elbow discomfort”, and there are so many of these injuries. It’s easy to assume they would not announce “sore arm” publicly if they didn’t think it was a problem.
But anyway – what’s wrong with over-reaction? It doesn’t hurt anybody.
Fair points all around.
The over reaction is a waste of time and energy
It’s outright propaganda. The kid is fine. Oh his arm hurt in march the day after his first outing??? No way
All the Dodger fans who think LA should not trade Bobby Miller and Gavin Stone
================================
And they are probably the same fans that said not to trade Kershaw, Urias, Gonsolin, Buehler & May. I wish they had traded all of them to the RS.
“is in good spirits” sounds like bad news based on the other times I’ve seen that phrase used.
Man I had been telling everyone he could be the key to this year. Now I just keep my mouth shut and cry on the inside.