As the trade deadline is now just over two weeks away, various clubs on the fringes of contention will have to make tough decisions about which players to trade and which to hang onto. The toughest decision and the one that is sure to get the most attention in the coming weeks is whether or not the Angels will trade two-way superstar Shohei Ohtani.
As of a few weeks ago, general manager Perry Minasian said the club’s position was “self-explanatory” at a time when they were 41-34 and in possession of a Wild Card spot. That seemed to suggest the club had no intention of trading Ohtani, though much has changed since then, with the club sliding in the standings prior to the All-Star break while also getting the grim news that Mike Trout is going to miss four to eight weeks after undergoing surgery for a fractured hamate.
With their record falling to 45-44 by last week, reporting indicated they seemed to be “leaving open the slight possibility” of making Ohtani available. After that report, the club lost two more games and went into the break at 45-46, fourth place in the West and five games back of the Blue Jays for the final Wild Card spot in the American League. Their playoff odds on FanGraphs are down to 10.7%. Today, Jon Morosi of MLB Network echoes that earlier reporting, taking to Threads to relay that the club will consider incoming trade scenarios, even though their bar for a trade remains incredibly high and a deal is still considered unlikely.
It’s not terribly surprising to hear that the club will listen to whatever offers come their way from other clubs. This is one of the toughest decisions a baseball club has ever had to make and it stands to reasons that they would want as much information as possible about each path before picking one.
The reasons for the difficulty of the decision are both due to the unique talent of Ohtani and the precarious position of the Angels. Ohtani’s skills are unprecedented and well-documented, but here’s a refresher if you need one. Dating back to the start of 2021, he’s hit 112 home runs, a tally bested only by Aaron Judge in that time. His combined batting line of .274/.369/.579 in those seasons amounts to a 154 wRC+, which places him fourth among qualified hitters in that stretch behind only Judge, Trout and Yordan Alvarez. He’s done all that while posting a 2.86 ERA as a pitcher in just under 400 innings, with that earned run mark the eight best among qualified pitchers.
One player managing to simultaneously serve as one of the best pitchers and best hitters in the game is something that seemed unfathomable until Ohtani came along and reshaped our perceptions of what is possible in this game. But despite being the only club that has such a player on their roster, the Angels haven’t been able to construct a winning team around him. They haven’t even been able to finish with a record above .500 since 2015. With Ohtani set to become a free agent in a few months’ time, their window for achieving that goal is rapidly closing.
This isn’t the first time the prospect of an Ohtani trade has come up, as similar reports emerged one year ago. The club still had a year and a half of Ohtani’s services to bank on at that time, but they were even further back in the standings, sporting a record of 42-57. Ultimately, a deal didn’t come together, with owner Arte Moreno reportedly being the one that prevented a deal from being seriously pursued. The club didn’t consider trades in the offseason either and had planned to give contention another try, hoping to both capitalize on Ohtani’s contributions while also convincing him to stay beyond the 2023 season by showing him they could win.
With the club now once again floundering outside of contention, they will have to pick their poison soon, with all signs pointing to the fact that the club’s performance in the next few weeks could push them in one direction one way or another. Ohtani’s unique abilities, not to mention marketability, would be highly sought after by all contending clubs. The Angels will undoubtedly have offers that will allow them to completely restock their farm system, which could help them in future seasons. But doing so would mean trying to win without Ohtani in those future seasons, and with Trout now into his 30s with injuries becoming a more frequent issue.
Trading the most uniquely-talented baseball player of all time would undoubtedly be incredibly painful, not to mention a potential public relations nightmare, which perhaps might lead the club to holding on and hoping for the best down the stretch. It’s worth reiterating that all reporting indicates a deal is still unlikely, merely that the club is listening to offers that other clubs are making, not that they are shopping him around. However, not trading him contains what is surely the worst-case scenario of missing the playoffs and then seeing him depart in free agency for next to nothing. The club would be able to issue him a qualifying offer and recoup a compensatory draft pick, but the value of that will be far less than whatever offers will be on the table in the next few weeks.
All things considered, it doesn’t seem hyperbolic to say that the future of the Angels will be determined in the coming weeks. Although a deal still seems unlikely, it doesn’t seem to be completely off the table. If they flounder in their upcoming games and decide to on a trade, it will likely be some kind of franchise-altering return that’s difficult to predict since a trade of this nature has never happened before. Last year, the club reportedly wanted “something like your top four prospects” in trade talks. The price may well have dropped now that Ohtani has just a few months of remaining control, but it would likely still be very high. Given the dilemma that the club’s decision makers are in, it stands to reason that they would want to give a thorough assessment to all offers so that they know exactly what their options are.
But perhaps they stay close enough to decide against such a move, trying to compete without Trout for at least part of the near future. If it works, perhaps they can convince Ohtani to re-sign, though he hasn’t tipped his hand one way or another as to whether that’s something he would seriously consider or what his priorities will be in free agency beyond winning. The Angels start a homestand tonight against the Astros, Yankees and Pirates, then go out on the road to Toronto, Detroit and Atlanta before the August 1 deadline.
Show me the way
Mariners seriously need him. However probably not worth the player hit for half a season.
Everyone needs him but you can’t mortgage the future for two months if you’re the Mariners. If they really want him, blow him away this off-season
I agree. Way too much of a hit on the farm, mariners cant afford it after the Castillo trade. The mariners especially need him, as they need an impactful run producer.
The idea is you trade for him now and that gives you the leg up on signing him in the offseason. Considering the Mariners are probably a place he would want to play regardless I would say it could possibly be worth it.
Also taken into consideration is, are the Angels willing to trade him within the division knowing they will be playing against him?
How many top players on deadline deals end up signing with the team that traded for them? Not many. It’s actually rare. You’re not trading for the future you’re trading to win now.
We’ll wait until the offseason when he returns to his offseason home.
ok he is getting traded. this looks exactly like when the Nats were not going to trade Soto… till they did.
Arte recently “listened to offers” to sell the franchise.
Dodgers and Yankees both have a slew over overhyped prospects they are ready to unload !
Have to pay a lot to get him
As a Mariners fan, I hope they don’t trade him. That would be stupid to not trade him which is the Angel way
Josh Lowe, Brandow Lowe, Taj Bradley and Mason Montgomery for Ohtani. Tampa wins the World Series and Ohtani comes back to the West coast next year for $700 million!
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Absolutely agree!
Door 1: Alligators
Door 2: Lava
Door 3: Spikes
The Angels have to pick one of them. Either way the Angels are screwed
Go with door #1. At least you can eat the gators.
Door 1: Nevin
Door 2: Rendon
Door 3: Moreno
Let’s just give the Angelos family another chance to mess something up
Great fit on the O’s or Astros.
O’s can put a package together.
Still have a great prospect pool after giving them 4 or 5 players.
Astros most likely don’t have enough to give up for him.
The Orioles might, but do they part with their top assets for a guy who probably won’t sign with an east coast team?
You’d need the A’s and Pirates too.
His list when he came from Japan, was angels, dodgers, giants, padres, mariners. Unless you do it for a rental probably not a chance he resigns. I’m starting to think he goes to the dodgers or giants in the off-season they didn’t have nl dh at the time
I think the Cubs were on the list. But now that the DH is everywhere, that opens up a few more teams.
When asked about the Cubs on that list last week Ohtani’s response was, “Don’t believe everything you hear.”
Os are a perfect fit because they have enough top end prospect capital to make this move without giving up their top top guys like Holiday or Grayson Rodriguez. I would only consider though if they are willing to at least put forth a competitive offer to keep him even if he doesn’t resign. Something like 3 backend of top 100 guys and 2 lottery picks. Then an offer of at least 10/450
As a angels fan wouldn’t mind that, he’s wants to play in certain cities would the orioles pull the trigger knowing he won’t resign.
I’ve heard him say multiple times how much he likes playing at Oriole Park so I think he would sign there with a big enough offer. He isn’t giving a city like Baltimore on the East a discount that’s for sure. Good division, good ballpark, and a team that should be competitive for at least next few seasons
Hope Orioles FO builds a roster similar to how the Braves do it. Long term deals galore and earnings are within a range. Looks like Atlanta intentionally avoids having one or 2 players on their roster with mega deals.
And I hope Orioles trade strategy coming up here in a few weeks places focus not just on quality but also players with playoff experience. Outside of Hicks , Os don’t have much of that.
Been forever since Os did an extension. They should be locking up a few guys now. The Braves have done a tremendous job at it
Delusions of grandeur, buddy! He may like playing there, but he chose to live in Seattle over the offseason twice, chose to play for the Angels for 5+ seasons, and still goes home to Japan which is already a long flight from the West Coast, he doesn’t love your park that much. If you believe that alone will make him forget about the extra three hour time difference and 5 hours of flying each way to get home to Japan, you should leave a tooth under your pillow, cookies by the fireplace, and see if the Easter bunny hid some eggs in the house that you haven’t found because you have one heck of an imagination!
Drinking and scrolling again huh
Great fit for everyone, I mean what team is so loaded they’re like, “nah we don’t need a 1.000 OPS hitter who can take the ball as a legit #2 every 5 starts!”
What would the Astros give? Dusty’s game worn underwear?
So what prospect with a strikeout issue do you see the Angels coveting in a return from the Orioles over whatever other prospects are available in return? The only really good prospects from Baltimore’s system would be off limits (Holliday and Rodriguez)
There is an argument that Ohtani can also hamstring your roster and may impose some formidable constraints: 1. He is your full time DH so you can’t use that slot to rest players or rotate folks in & out to sustain health. 2. He causes your rotation to stretch out to a 6-man which means one less reliever & the need to have a viable 6th starter and accompanying depth. 3. When or if he gets hurt you’re down two key roster spots that must be replaced.
Not sure how much those three things should factor into the final analysis or if it could tip the scales in any meaningful way. There aren’t too many people out there who are “anti-Shohei” but they use these reasons plus just the enormity of his future contract to argue against acquiring him.
What does Ohtani want?
What every player wants. Winning and money.
Supposedly, but keep in mind he picked the angels to play with trout his favorite mlb player
So he checked the favorite player box, now on to a perennial contender like the Dodgers.
He picked the Angels because he was obsessed with a Japanese manga (comic book) called “Major” about a two-way player who throws 102 mph, hits mammoth homeruns, and goes to Los Angeles to play in the major leagues. He’s older, wiser, and has perspective. It’s worth noting he has a serious relationship to consider and I don’t know much about her, but he was living in Seattle over two separate offseasons since they started dating. Either she likes spending the offseason in Seattle or she is from there. That’s not wild speculation it’s logic. If she was from New York, he probably would’ve spent time there over the offseason and if she was from Los Angeles, he would’ve just stayed in Southern California.
He complimented the fans in Seattle for their general passion, he got them chanting for him to come to Seattle, he lived in the area during two offseasons, his childhood idol is actively involved in the team and recruiting him, he loves the city, one of the best players under 25 years old is guaranteed to be on the Mariners for the rest of his career and thru Julio’s prime years, the roster is young, talented, and with many top prospects coming up through the system over the next few years who will be on the team through the end of an extension. Seattle is a great ballpark for his power, left-handed swing, and pitching. Most importantly, Dipoto went out of his way to make sure that Julio got a fair deal and Ohtani will be coming off the books only a couple years after Julio’s contract increases.
For those saying Ohtani could get a billion dollar deal, it’s ridiculous. He won’t have the leverage based on his list of demands including geography, talent, etc. Also, he only has 5-6 prime years left and the real indicator is the fact that a great DH isn’t going to get more than $25M/season and a #2 starter like him would only get about $25M/season, Together that’s $50M x 12 seasons and the most he’ll get is $600M. My guess is that on a deal that long there’s going to be a discount for such a long pact and he’ll probably want an opt out after 5 years to ensure the team stays competitive. So my guess would be that he gets $540M/12 years. The Mariners could afford $45M/season. If Ohtani only wants a 10 year deal it might be a higher annual value at $50M x 10 years for $500M. Anything more than that is really just wild speculation at best.
Even Trout was putting up more WAR as a hitter than Ohtani both ways and signed his extension at a younger age, but only got $426M, I can’t see anybody signing a 29 year old to deal over $500-550M. Juan Soto when everyone thought he was the second coming was laughed at for $600M over a longer time and cover more of his prime years.
Hes better than a number 2 sp when healthy. Nearly won the CY last year and was doing great again this year until the fingernail issues. He would command ace money. Not sure about the DH because we haven’t seen one of his caliber in his prime reach the market yet. I agree though that i don’t see a team paying $60M a year or going more than $600M
He wanted to win, yet knowingly signed up for the Angels, whose issues don’t need to be rehashed.
I question the whole all I want is to win routine.
Also question he’s wants the biggest offer, he has the opportunity to pick any team, the offers will be roughly the same.
For the entire Royals
Would Shohei have to pull a Bugs Bunny and play every position?
He’d have to work the concessions too.
This may be way off, but here is an idea: Duran, Owen White, and Dustin Harris for Ohtani… maybe throw on Luisangel Acuna if needed. Those would be 2 or 3 current top 100 prospects and 1 former top 100 guy who is doing well (just don’t ask about his swing decisions or walk to strikeout ratio). Adolis is here, and Carter can play outfield next year for Duran anyways. They can get a stopgap for a year or two until Langford breaks all of Josh Jung’s Rangers’ rookie records and lives up to that Vanderbilt coach’s comparison to Mike Trout (realistically, probably a 90th or 95th percentile outcome). Who needs Trout at 37 million when you can just draft him and hope for the best case scenario?
Troll!
If I’m trading ohtani I’m telling teams they have to take Rendon. He is due 38 million each of the next three seasons. Let’s not worry about the return so much but let’s clear the books. Maybe get one or two blue chip prospects
The cost for 2 months of him won’t make sense for most teams.. the Angels will want a huge return and there’s next to no chance Ohtani resigns with a team he’s traded to without testing the market.
The only teams that make sense for a trade are serious WS contenders whose window of contention is running out. And really there isn’t any team that is up to those standards.
MLB GM Droolfest ‘23 is officially underway.
More like fan drool fest. Most GMs wouldn’t want to strip their farm for a couple months of Ohtani.
Unbelievable how badly the Angels mismanaged the team to make Trout and Ohtani’s contributions completely irrelevant in the big picture. They would be crazy not to trade him, no matter what they could get. That team is going no where.
Some GM/owner combo is contemplating selling off the entire AA team for him! Honestly, it will take a team willing to sign him long term and have the trade capital for the short term. I don’t know if you’re an owner, you just don’t wait until you can throw a boatload of money at him once he reaches free agency. Unless you feel like he’s the guy who puts you in the winner’s circle this year.
He’s not going to sign an extension. The Dodgers have a bunch of money coming off their books and it would serve him best if he at least took a bid from them during free agency. The bidding is going to be bananas.
Pretty much the same as how it started last year with Rizzo, realizing it would be ludicrous to hold on to Soto. Trout’s injury has to be a huge factor in this.
The price for Ohtani will be significantly less given that he has two fewer years of team control. This will make Preller, who is now even more desperate than he was a year ago, a player. He has the assets to make a deal. And those assets mean absolutely nothing to him because the chances he will be around to see his top prospects play for the Padres is quite unlikely.
Very important for Sho to continue to put up big numbers “second half” and stay healthy.
If he can Sho he’s a full season Cy candidate , hits +/- 50 , he’ll max his free agency $$
Every team should put anyone and everyone up for grabs for this kid there are no “untouchables” for player like him but that’s only if u get a long term deal in place
I see it completely opposite.
One player, even a superstar, doesn’t guarantee a ring. As evidenced by the Angels, who have at least two.
Furthermore, as much as I’d love to have him on my team, there is no way I’d want to pay him the franchise altering, half billion dollar, ten year contract he’s going to get. Just to watch him spend the second half of said contract DHing with a .237 BA.
The Angels already got the best value.
The Angels have never played a season where Ohtani and Trout were both healthy.
Well even if Ohtani, for example, isn’t healthy, you’ll notice a stunning lack of growth from his fellow pitchers.
It says to me he’s not much into helping his teammates get better, mentoring, etc. And maybe that’s not his job. But how many greats also made their teammates better, and got tons of credit for doing so?
I think we’ve heard you say this now, what? 20 times? everyone knows this…
A lot of his teammates throw sweepers now, and it’s not from the pitching coach
He also told the manager that Suarez was tipping his pitches
If the Braves, with Smoltz Maddux and Glavine, could only get one, and they had a plenty large enough window to get more, you’re right, there are no guarantees.
Not when you can win 87 games and get hot for two weeks.
Remember Texas signed the best shortstop in MLB history (one of 3 to have a 40-40 until Soriano, 1.000 OPS, .358 batting average, 10 WAR season, etc.). See where it got them. This time around, they had a better supporting cast and more of a willingness to spend. It only makes sense if your other positions are all average and you need a superstar. If you have 3 moderate gaps, spend on 3 different decent guys instead of 1 superstar. It helps more.
Lets make this simple. Cashman either gets him or we bring in someone who can get the job done!
Will they listen? Sure.
Will they get anything but a low ball offer for just two months? Highly unlikely.
Will they pull the trigger on that kind of offer? Only they know, but I would say unlikely.
Angels are Stupid to keep him he’s gone after the year.
Angles should let Ohtani’s agents talk to other teams. The trade return could be massive if a team knew it had at least a decent chance at keeping Ohtani off the open market
Exactly!
most sensible post.
I don’t think they’re allowed to do that due to tampering rules. The Angels, at the minimum, would need to have a trade framework in place before his agent can begin any preliminary extension talks.
Whatever team signs him, they should make him GM as well. That’s enticing lol.
He can do everything, he’s not human anyways.
Please Come To Boston Shohei. Don’t go to New York or LA
LOL, why the hell would he go from a 4th place team to a bottom dweller?
We’re only 2 games out of the wild card.
And would be in first place if they were in the AL Central with the record they have right now.
If they trade Ohtani, they should trade Trout as well. Give him a chance to get to the post-season.
They should trade both. They’ve wasted both careers to date. They could get a massive influx of young talent and become contenders as soon as next season if they spent wisely and got the right type of players back. There are absolutely teams out there that would trade for Trout even still, despite his injuries and contract.
It would be the smartest way for the Angels to reset and try to contend sooner than later.
Of course, they won’t do that. They won’t even trade Ohtani and will let him go for practically nothing over the winter.
You both know they can’t trade Trout, right?
Sure they can. He just has to waive his ntc.
Right. that’s the point. People say “trade Trout” like it’s the Angels’ decision. It’s not, it’s Trout’s.
Well duh, but don’t you think that if the Angels wave the white flag and trade Ohtani, then Trout might be more open to a trade? I do.
Exactly trout has a no trade clause, probably took less money to stay in Anaheim, he might waive it later in his career, but obviously he’s content to stay with the angels
Later in his career no one I’ll want him. He’s always been brittle. He’s expensive, and now he starting to age.
Agree he’s staying with the angels, just pointing out you can’t trade him, maybe later with the angels sending money to wherever he wants to go to chase a ring
Trout’s contract is the west coast version of the Stanton contract. They would have to send a lot of money to move Trout at this point.
Whoever think it is too much won’t ever see him in their team!
Just trade him already.
For any trade to happen, the acquiring team would need to sign him to an extension. Otherwise, two months isn’t going to be worth that much prospect capital. That makes a trade even more unlikely.In short, I would be shocked if he is moved.
Devil’s advocate here- some pseudo-contender (BAL? CIN? SEA? TOR? SD? MIA?) will want him BAD and submit a strong enough offer to obtain his rental services with an exclusive inside track on extension talks. Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise, and Shohei tips the scales for any thirsty contender.
Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise, and Shohei tips the scales for any thirsty contender.
===========================
Of course, which is why yo almost never star-for-star trades. It defeats the purpose of the trades.
He likes Boston. So that’s where he’s going. An extremely easy trade to make, they’ve got the right mix of players, sign him up and move on.
I wonder if we could get him without trading Mayer or Teel (If he signs in time). It would definitely require Yorke and Rafaela and maybe Anthony as well as a big leaguer
You can’t trade this year’s picks until next year, just FYI
Oh cool, I didn’t know that. Thanks!!!
the only way this makes sense for any team is if they’re able to negotiate a contract before the trade. otherwise the asking price will be way too high for the short period of time you will have him
He’s not going to sign an Extension, but any acquiring team will have exclusive rights to talk to him about it.
True but no extension will happen and someone will drastically overpay.
They will only move him if a team is willing to trade their entire farm, some ML players and more. Nobody is doing that for a few month rental.
Somebody always does.
There’s not really a good option for the Angels, and it goes way beyond the concept of a team being a buyer or seller. If you trade him, it’s highly unlikely you bring him back this offseason and you’re giving his new team a head start on trying to recruit him long term anyway. It would have to be a huge return to move him and risk giving up that chance. Teams would gladly move talent for two months of Ohtani, but would they give up enough to make it worth the risk?
If you keep him, you risk missing the playoffs and letting him walk for a draft pick. You have the rest of the season to market him and try convincing him to stay, but it only makes sense if you think you have a chance to keep him long term.
Still, I think if you feel there’s even a 10% chance of re-signing him, you don’t trade him. No one wants to be the one that traded Ohtani, and even if your return is better than a draft pick (which shouldn’t be tough), it’s probably more valuable to hold onto him and try convincing him to stay than it is to get a slightly better prospect or two and eliminate that possibility.
Ohtani has made it be known he doesn’t want to stay last year. The Angels are in the same position this year with Trout out. I’ll bet the under on 10%.
I agree and I think Ohtani is going elsewhere too based on what he’s said lately, but I doubt he’s the type to ever go public and specifically say he wants out. So if the Angels think they can convince him to stay, they’d be dumb to trade him no matter what. Obviously if they think he’s gone, they should trade him though.
Letting him walk for a draft pick would be terrible, but I still think it’s worse to trade him and move on if you think there’s any chance at all of keeping him. Trading him should only be an option if you’ve pretty much decided there’s no way he comes back.
Or… if I’m the Angels… convince Shohei that we’d love to welcome him back, this is just business, trade him for a really nice return, then re-sign him in the offseason with the acquired trade pieces being able to help his Angels.
Well you took the bait, didn’t you?
This was supposed to be in response to a different comment. No clue why it ended up here lol
Someone check on Arte Moreno…and tip-toe away quietly.
So what do you guys think his free agent deal will look like if he continues to produce and stay healthy? I used to think 500M but now I’m thinking it could go as high as 700M. Crazy, I know, but you’re effectively getting two topline players.
I think it will be lower than you expect. The down side of a two way player is if he goes on the IL, you lose both the arm and the bat and can only replace one on the roster, not both. I think 10/500 is about where he lands, which is too much, but crazy is the trend.
I think he’s going to ask for 12 years with the backend money deferred. He’s two years younger than Judge so any team signing him is getting two additional prime years.
I agree except Pitchers are more fragile. 10 gets him to 39, which is old for a starter. But again, crazy is the trend.
The city might riot
That’s a Monday in the City of Angels.
Anaheim
They aren’t in Los Angeles or LA County. They are in Anaheim, Orange County.
He is retroactively interrupting an old comment. Morosi and Verducci are clowns
I think the Giants have the most motivation to go after Ohtani. They know he is interested in the Dodgers and they could keep him off their roster for at least the rest of this season. They also have a legit chance of signing him long term if he likes the bay area. And the Angels would avoid the embarrassment of him playing cross-town for a supposed marketing rival.
The problems I see are lack of prospects,starting pitchers and infielders that the Angels likely ask for.
Harrison, Luciano, and Schmitt would be a pretty good haul.
Pretty soon, Arte Moreno will announce that he offered Ohtani $650 million over 10 years but the agent will say “we want the opportunity to get offers from other teams”.
That will surely secure his services come winter time so might as well trade him in the meantime aye ?
Are their past monster deals scaring them off? Rendon, Pujols, Hamilton, CJ Wilson didn’t turn out great and they’ve still got Trouts money on the books for a longtime. My hope is they extend him. So few guys play their careers for one team nowadays
All good points that those were four horrible contracts. But this is not the motivation for the Angels because Ohtani is such a one-of-a-kind talent. It is assumed that the Angels made offers but Ohtani’s agent will say “we are not listening to extension offers”.
I think someone has said that there have been no talks between the two sides for an extension.
I don’t know about an extension needing to be signed. A team would be acquiring two months of his service. Likewise, the Angels will be making a business decision based on whether a certain prospect hall is worth giving up two months of Ohtani.
What if the Marlins can help the Angels retool their starting rotation? Or if the Reds offered up their two best hitters still in the minors (Marte and CES), plus a pitcher like Chase Petty? The Reds don’t really have anywhere to play the hitters, and it would be a major boon for the club and the city to get Ohtani—even if it’s short-lived. And then the Angels would have some excellent building blocks.
It’s safe to start printing the pinstripe jersey
If the right offer is made, the Angels need to take it.
This is not a good team. They need at least 2 starters and the bullpen sinks.
If Rendon, Drury and Neto and Sandoval come back or pick it up, they have a chance, but with so may ifs. and with this pen, they’ll likely need to pull a trigger on a trade.
What do u consider a good enough return ? Hard to think they’ll get much more than smtg like Cortez, Pereira, Thorpe from yanks. Be hard to think someone will give a top notch future prospect for a 1/2 season of ohtani
It would have to have a headliner like a Miller of the Dodgers.
“This is one of the toughest decisions a baseball club has ever had to make…“ I mean… I dunno about that.
The Astros have one of the weakest farm systems in the league.
When you add that to the fact they are division rivals to the Angels, I just don’t see a trade for Ohtani taking place between these two teams.
I actually think the Giants are a great fit and have the prospects, but maybe a 3 team deal that spreads out the prospect hit makes sense:
Giants get Ohtani and Jake Meyers from Astros.
Astros get Alex Cobb and Mike Yastrzemski
Angels get:Pedro Leon, Jacob Melton, and Misael Tamarez from Astros
Carson Whisenhunt, Vaun Brown, and Aeverson Arteaga from Giants.
Giants get Ohtani and a truecCF w/ 4 years of control without giving up any of their top 3 prospects, or top prospect at any position.
Astros get a rental SP and balance the OF and lineup vs RH pitchers.
Angels get a 50 rated prospect, 3 50 rated prospects, and 2 45 rated prospects for Ohtani.
For the Angels it should read they get one 55, three 50, and two 45 prospects.
I like your proposal, Astrosfn… but surely the Halos could get better returns?? I suppose we shall see…
You may be right the ratings I posted are from mlb.com.
Using Fangraphs because with their big board you can see all prospects. I have no idea how many of each ratings there are at mlb.com.
There are 42 prospects rated 55 or higher
There are 125 prospects rated 50 or higher
There are 278 prospects rated 45 or higher.
So you are looking at
1 prospect in top 42
3 prospects between 43 and 125
2 prospects between 126-278
That’s a fairly good haul for a rental, even Ohtani.
Looking at Fangraphs rankings they are lower across the board.
I’m not sure which one is more accurate to how the Angels, Astros, and/or Giants value prospects.
Fangraphs prospect ratings sucks and has huge East Coast bias. I never trust them.
Blue Jays need a starting pitcher and a right handed bat. That’s it
If you’re suggesting the Jays wouldn’t be exponentially better with Ohtani. That’s nonsense
He’d immediately bump everyone down a rung in the rotation
He’d Bump Belt off the team and relegate Kirk to be the backup C (through no longer needing to cycle players through the DH spot)
He’s the only guy I’d be willing to trade Tiedemann and Barriera for.
I’m sure they at least get the conversation started
If Ohtani wants to be a global player. Coming to Toronto and Dominating in a 3rd country. Plus actually win something is a good way to cement a Legacy. Ohtani added to that roster is immediately a WS contender
MLB Network and ESPN just blew their collective loads. They’ve wanted this for soooo long.
If Ohtani was just a pitcher, he’d be the top rental pitcher on the market.
If he was just a hitter, he’d be the top rental bat on the market.
Another consideration is that any team that acquired him would make a ton of money on significantly increased attendance and ancillary revenue streams.
Plus, he makes any team a significantly better post season team….which adds to the revenue the farther into the playoffs the team goes.
As an example, a team like Minnesota or Cleveland could punch its ticket to the playoffs, while significantly jacking its attendance. Then it would find itself one of the favorites, instead of merely a hopeful. Its quite possible that either could make so much money that jumping into the FA market next winter would be a legit possibility…something that, esp Cleveland, only dreams about.
I’m not suggesting its a good idea, only that there are some significant off the field considerations.
His salary is 30 million this year. If you think he is somehow worth 50-60 million, he is not nearly as valuable as you would think. Now, if the Angels pay his salary, maybe he is worth a third of 50 or 60 MM – the salary left.
Continuous absurdity that is the modern game and business of baseball. A player so talented that he’s basically unaffordable, assuming that the prospective owner/GM is rational.
Weakest click-bait article I have ever seen on this site!
This is coming from Jon Morosi of MLB Network. Are you forgetting what website you’re on?
Click – check
Comment – check
Got em
ATLLLLLLLLL?
If I were to offer anything for Ohtani, at MOST it would be Kyle Wright, Vaughn Grissom and Jared Shuster. I don’t see Atlanta signing him as a free agent and I can’t see paying more for just two months when you can’t even give him a qualifying offer if you traded for him.
In all honesty I just can’t see Atlanta trading for him, when others would probably offer more.
ATLOL
I’m not talking about this year, but any team that signs him is going to be crippled financially for a long time like we’ve never seen. Sounds prefect for the Angels, right?
Its a double edged sword. he wants to win, but that salary will hurt said team long term. His cost can only be absorbed by the teams that don’t care about the luxury tax.
You’re trading for a top of the rotation pitcher and you’re also trading for a middle of the order bat. At the same time, you have just these last few months with him and then he’s gone. The most similar trade, to me, is Turner and Scherzer. Although, Turner still had one year. Dodgers gave up their #1 and #2? Prospects. I think that’s the comp, even with the difference in control. The euphoria of getting the best player in MLB might warrant even the team’s best two prospects for just a postseason run of a lifetime.
You have to take into account every orgs top two prospects aren’t the same. Dodgers gave up two pretty good ones but neither were true elite prospects.
Baltimore, I need to hear from you!
It will be horrible pr but they have to seriously consider trading him if they haven’t already decided to. Probably will bring the best haul of any rental player ever.
they shouldn’t trade ohtani. it’s not like they’re going to do anything with the prospects. they’re the angels
What should happen: We trade Ohtani for a return that can actually make a difference into the future. Then we use that to sell a long term deal to Ohtani this winter. Effectively, Ohtani would be credited for building the Angels into a team he would want to play for long term.
What probably will happen: Moreno’s trade expectations will be ridiculous, we keep Ohtani and end the season at 78-84, and he signs elsewhere this winter. Then, Moreno dumps the team on the buyer he already has waiting in the wings from last winter. The Angels get nothing. I become a Padres fan.
Dodgers have the most prospects besides the Orioles. Orioles won’t pay him.
Go get creative Dombrowski
they should trade him to the Mexican League in return for the Angels joining the Mexican League. this would give the Angels a real shot at .500, and maybe even start dreaming about a wildcard spot
Angels get: Betts, Urias, Taylor
Dodgers get: Ohtani.
Who says no?
Dodgers
0% chance they trade years of Mookie for 2 months of Shohei
Why is nobody considering the possibility of the Angels trading Ohtani and also trying to resign him in the offseason. Both can happen. When Yanks were out of the race in 2016, they traded Aroldis Chapman to the Cubs for Gleyber Torres, then resigned Chapman that winter. That’s what Angels should try to do here. Get as much as you can and tell Ohtani you want him back with a better chance to win in 2024.
Think this is actually the best option.
Great post!
If Ohtani hits free agency, you can guarantee he’s not re-signing with the Angels.
Padres Get:
Ohtani
Angles Get:
Soto
Snell
Top 2 Prospects:
Padres would never do that. Snells is a better pitcher than Ohtani and soto is as good of a hitter that has another year of control. That’s before even counting the additional prospects. If Soto was a free agent at the end of the year then the at two for one might make some sense but the angles wouldn’t do it because snell would be lost at the end of the season.
Lol
My expectation is the Angels set the asking price too high and wind up with a supplementary draft pick when Ohtani leaves.
The Moreno way….
NYY Get
Ohtani
Rendon
Angels Get
Stanton
Volpe
Donaldson
Severino
Angles have already hung up.
Wouldn’t even happen in MLB the Show, despite the game’s stupid trade system..
Stanton and Donaldson are dumps. Rendon is just 1 guy, and you would be assuming Rendon’s contract is so bad that it more than negates Ohtani’s value. A similar proposal would probably be Martin Perez, Marcus Semien, and Luisangel Acuna for Ohtani and Rendon (maybe?). Those are deals the Angels would never accept. The Nats didn’t even throw in Corbin since it would lower their returns. What makes you think they trade Ohtani to take on 2 bad contracts and and dump 1 bad contract?
Otani for Soto swap. Why? Soto has another year and may recoup value lost. Superstar for superstar
People keep bringing this up but padres aren’t trading Soto for 2 months of Ohtani especially when they are on the outside looking in. They need to consider 2024 and much as 2023
I don’t see him getting traded to the dodgers because of the dislike the owner has for seeing him playing across town. He may sign there anyways but I don’t think he gets traded there. This may even make it difficult for the padres as well but not to the extreme as the dodgers. At very least the dodgers would have to offer much more then any other team.
Team control… someone last year was suggesting Acuna Jr. for Soto, and the same applies here. 1.4 years of Soto are worth way way more than 0.4 years of Ohtani, especially after the supposed injury to Ohtani yesterday.
They should get what they can for him. He would be crazy to resign with a team that has proven they have no idea how to build a winner.
Until recently I felt strongly that the PR hit would be too great and the Angels shouldn’t keep him. But now I’ve decided the massive haul that could be had coupled with the likely outcome of NOT being a playoff team they should 100% cash in now.
They could try to save face by saying (and then at least legitimately follow through even if winning team will rule them out) say they are still going to do everything they can to bring him back next year but that the unique opportunity to acquire generational talent such as (Prospect A, B and C or whatever) all at once when given injuries etc we felt we just didn’t have a chance to overcome the deficit to make the playoffs.
I just think organizationally trading him could bring back 1 or 2 prospects that could legitimately alter the course of the franchise and that’s just too much to pass up vs only a draft pick if (when) he leaves in FA
Dodgers should NOT trade for Ohtani – price would be too high. Dodgers already have an All Star DH in Martinez so trading for a one dimensional Ohtani would be too much especially if you have to take Rendon. Let all the trade rumors fail now and get involved in a bidding war fro him to the end of the season and save your prospects for the future.
Something being lost in all this is the fact that this will be a business merger between Ohtani and the new team. Ohtani’s merchadiising value is unprecidented. Merging Ohtani with one of the two main global brands would be a win for either team and for Ohtani. No other teams have the global reach of the Yankees and the Dodgers. Ohtani becomes immediately more valuable for endorsements if he signs with either team. Both teams can afford him. It will be a win on and off the field for either team to sign Ohtani.
Only valid if Ohtani gets to the WS with one of the teams.
Ohtani is easily the most well-known athlete in the world. The WBC was his showcase.
Nothing MLB wants more is to have him in the playoffs and right through the WS. Imagine the money they’d bring in selling the rights to televise those games to countries around the world. He could be playing for the Minnesota Twins and the world would be watching.
I’m not expecting Ohtani to be moved. It will be typical if the Angels demand too much and wing up with a supplemental draft pick. I do think the Dodgers have the inside track to sign him long term. They are the best positioned of the teams that can afford him.
I realize the Yankees have a $100 million Stanton problem if they sign Ohtani.
IF they sign Ohtani, it’s not the worst problem they have. they can each take turns at DH while the other is having a day of rest and Stanton can play some OF when Ohtani is pitching – Stanton also missed 50 games so far this year, 52 last year, 23 in 2021, 37 of the 60 games in 2020, 139 in 2019 and 144 in 2018, Ohtani would get plenty of playing time and the Marlins are kicking in $30 million towards that “problem”..
After this year, Stanton is owed $118 million plus the $10 million buyout for the 2028 season. I assume that option in 2028 will be turned down. That leaves Miami on the hook for $20 million for the 2026 and 2027 season.
His next contract will smash all contract records. He could easily get 60 mil a year, since he is essence two players.
Cardinals
The Cardinals aren’t a $500 to $600 million dollar contract.
I prefer to get my news from Drip
What’s the difference between “listening to offers” and “shopping him around” in the case of a player of his caliber?
Incoming vs. Outgoing phone calls
Yeah I guess the Angels are now calling teams asking if they’ve heard about this Ohtani guy.
Shock the baseball world and him to Oakland for the entire team…then that team moves to Vegas….a new team rises from the Ashes……The Oakland Ohtanis.
The Shohaiwards!
I’d guess the offers will be very underwhelming for the Angels. Ohtani doesn’t seem like the extension-signing type. He’s going to the open market period, and if I had to guess I’d imagine he already knows which teams he’ll even consider (probably Yankees and Dodgers, full stop. Maybe Giants.). And great as he is, you don’t sell your entire farm for a couple months and one playoff run, no matter who you are. Plus teams know the Angels are in a bind and will get next to nothing if they let him go. So the offers will be low.
I saw an article about a team like the Rays making a trade just to get him as a rental and while I understand banners fly forever I think it’s too big of a gamble for basically no shot at resigning him. The Giants, Rangers and Yankees make the most sense imo due to the few extra months of Ohtani they might be able to woo him then sign him (the Dodgers imo are the favorite and have the best chance of outright signing him so idk if the two months is really worth the cost).
2016 Cubs had NO CHANCE at re-signing Alroldis Chapman but gave away some of their prospects for a rental and won the World Series, which they wouldn’t have without him.
That’s why I do understand the logic but a team like the Rays live off of their top prospects to succeed
whose definition of “succeed”? Yankees under George: World Championship or Bust… or Yankees under Hal: make a profit
The Rays are, in my opinion, the team that’s in the strongest position to make a trade for Ohtani. Their roster is already full of cheap, young, controllable players who are good enough on their own to get to the playoffs. The Rays can easily afford to spend even their best prospects on Ohtani. It would make a great team even better (short term, of course), give them a great shot at winning their first WS, and undoubtedly make 2023 the most exciting season for the Rays yet.
I still don’t see it happening though.
DL Hall, Jordan Westburg, and a RP for Ohtani?
I don’t think ANA will trade him but O’s have the prospects to get him without hurting the major league team much. I would love to see Baltimore go for it, even if it’s unlikely
How about Santander, Ortiz, Rom, and Norby or Mayo for Ohtani. Santander is under control next year and replaces Ohtani in the 3/4/5 and plays DH this season then next season back to RF to replace FA Renfroe. 2 top 100 prospects with nowhere to play in Baltimore, and a starter ready right now to replace his spot in the rotation this season with backend starter potential.
He’ll be a Dodger by August 1 with the Dodgers taking Rendon and sending the Halos a couple of quality prospects. Arte can sellout and get a nice ROI with a very marketable team that will have some good young guys for the future owners. It’s smart business
Dodgers will sit it out and wait for him to hit free agency
Hope you are right
If Ohtani is made available, I’m not sure there are too many teams that can afford the prospect capital. It sure isn’t the Yankees unless they want to give up Volpe, Dominguez, and others.
It may be a pure rental, but teams also know it will help their chances of re-signing Ohtani if he is traded there first.
Does he want to go to a market with successful Japanese players or does he want to create one?
Minasian is very familiar with the Braves system that is consistently underrated. And before anyone says, the Braves don’t have the prospects, Stryder and Elder, both all stars, as well as last years ROY, Harris II, we’re never on a single top 100 list. Braves can offer some combination of AJSS, Shuster, Elder, Grissom, 3 highly touted high school picks last year, as well as this years 1st rounder. I’m not banking on anything out of Wright this year so upgrading the rotation is definitely a need.
trading FOR Ohtani is like trading for 2 players at once – it is like the Brewers trading for CC Sabathia in 2008 AND the Yankees trading for David Justice in 2000 at the SAME TIME as well as BLOCKING the teams you’re competing with the rest of this year and the postseason from making the same trade.
If they don’t have an extension worked out by the deadline it would be insane for them not to trade him. What exactly is their plan if they lose him after this season? 15 more years of 3rd or 4th place finishes in the ALW while being 8 games out of the wild card?
This is a trade that the Red’s could realistically probably pull off. Either Edwin Arroyo or Cam Collier, together with Reece Hinds and Bryce Hubbart, could get it done.
He will bring a lot, but less than the crazy stuff we’ll say a 55 prospect or maybe a pair of 50’s as a headline with some change seems about right. BUT he is also the type of player to take you from playoff hopeful to WS contender.. bidding may go pretty high.
I like day dreaming about someone like him signing with the pirates lol. If they’re going to do a crazy contract, hes the guy to do it on. Pirates can afford it, they wont but they could. Just make sure you get some good insurance on that contract. As much as I would like to see it happen.. i can’t imaging putting up 400/500M (or more) on one player… that’s about what 40% of what the team is worth…. … he goes down so does the franchise… then for real in the poor house haha
the Angels should offer their best extension offer 1st.
Yes. Offer him a salary of $30M/year and 10% ownership share.
Ohtani’s coming to the Mets. Book it.
Not a chance. The only thing the Mets, and the city have to offer is money. He goes somewhere on the west coast, or Pacific Northwest. Book it!!
Would a package of Kyle Harrison and Luciano get the deal done?
He’s another thought. Because he’s such a unique player. What if the angels said any team interested in ohtani send an offer say the angels accept 8 offers from teams tells ohtani’s agent work out an extension with the team of your choosing this is your free agency now. And of course ask ohtani what teams he would like to go to
Hear me out..
1. Braves saved a lot of money by not resigning Dansby last year, and by using a guy they already had (Arcia) to plug the hole at SS.
2. Braves have almost the entire roster on lock for 6-8 years, with some of the most economically conservative contracts in the league.
3. Braves have the prospects, and can spare them for a while (see #2)
4. Braves without a doubt fit Ohtani’s preference for a winning team, they’re already favorites to win the WS this year, and with him on the team they increase those odds DRASTICALLY and could feasibly bring multiple rings to ATL over the next few years.
5. Braves are long overdue for a big splash in Free Agent signings, and Anthopoulos has said they want to be a Top 3 payroll soon
6. Braves could theoretically afford to not sign Fried if Ohtani filled his spot in the rotation
Yes there is a lot of copium involved in this comment as I’m a huge Braves fan, but my points are valid.
Phillies should trade Nola, Schwarber, one of top 3 pitching prospects and/or one of top 3 outfield prospects.. Schwarber has two more years, they can resign Nola long term (his brother is Padres catcher). Gives the Angels two pitchers and two hitters. Nola and Schwarber are legit all stars and will help Angels win. Plus will help Moniak continue his climb to being a complete player since he was former #1 draft pick of Phils. Phils dump Schwarber’s $20M contract and don’t have to break the bank for Nola who wants $20-25M. Then Phils pay Ohtani $50M a year and get player who replaces both Schwarber and Nola. Then Phils win series this year.
Then you wake up!
And to add some more butterfly effect to your dream, the Halos will then trade Hunter Renfroe to the Padres for Austin Nola and prospects. Brothers are a tandem. Then the Padres beat the Phillies in the NLCS with an eighth inning Renfroe homer. Padres win the World Series. Sleep tight…
I think the Dodgers can make the deal as you say without giving up so much of their young pitching
The Angels want young controllable talent. Schwarber isn’t that. Phillies have the prospects to get this trade done, but I don’t think they have the flexibility to sign Ohtani in free agency, which he will 100% test no matter who he is traded to. I don’t necessarily think the Phillies are an Ohtani away from being world beaters. I’m not sure if he’s worth a rental for them.
Eppler on line 1 offering Alvarez Mauricio Baty and Vogelbach. Lmao
Angela should 1000% consider getting the most talent they can for Ohtani ASAP. No way he resigns with the Angels anyway unless they are willing to outbid all the other teams in free agency which is doubtful. He will probably be a Dodger in 2024.
No team is going to be willing to match the asking price for Ohtani. What the Padres had to give up for Soto last year was ludicrous and Ohtani is certainly going to have an asking price far greater than that haul
You get an MVP caliber hitter and Cy Young caliber starter (Ohtani) as opposed to one MVP caliber hitter (Soto). Years aside it’s going to take a haul to get him
On another note, calm TF down
No win situation for the Angels
I tend to agree. If you can’t sign him long term, which I would want him to do before the deadline and he’s obviously not going to do that you gotta trade him. The owner however isn’t going to let you do that and therefore the franchise will suffer longterm because of it. I’m assuming he eventually signs elsewhere. If he wants to win he should.
Ohtani got injured today and has walk issues on the pitching side. Hitting-wise, he is still elite, but that injury torpedoes his value.
I’m gonna say something I might get flamed for…. the Angels need to call the Marlins about Ohtani…. The Marlins missing piece is a big bat in the middle of their lineup… the Angels need pitching prospects… no team in baseball has more pitching depth than the Marlins right now…. I think it’s a pretty amazing match for a rental player.
@jeremyn I like your suggestion regarding Miami. Besides having the pitchers the Angels need it gets Ohtani out of the American League & I think Arte would rather Ohtani be out of the west in both leagues. However something tells me that the Red Sox might be the team to pull it off, sending Justin Turner back in the trade. Maybe they even eat Rendon’s contract & DFA him.
With Seattle prepared to break the bank to sign him in two months and Ohtani interested in Seattle, it is a big risk for another team to fork over a bounty of prospects to the Angels now for a rental player. I think it is best that he stay with LA to the end of season. Then let the bidding begin.
Arte doesn’t want to trade him which would be a massive mistake because you’d get a lot of talent for him.
Arte would’ve gotten double the return for Ohtani last year. Moreno also isn’t too willing to deal with certain teams either which lowers the amount of potential suitors. Why would a team like LA give up a bunch of prospects for a guy they can sign in a few months? I could see a small market or east coast team willing to take the shot on a trade but SF, SD, and LA would be better off keeping their prospects and trying to sign him for only $
It makes no sense whatsoever for a small market team to ruin their farm system for 2 months. No small market would ever or has never operated like that, nor should they. The successful small market teams like the Indians and rays would trade their stars away from to recoup the farm system because that’s how they have sustainable success.
Small market teams trade prospects all the time. The Rays are a perfect example. I don’t think 2 months of Ohtani would ruin most teams farm system. He’s probably only going to bring back 2 top 100 prospects and Baltimore has like 8 of them. Why are you guys so dramatic on this website? I couldn’t imagine being so hyperbolic about everything like you
It’s not going to happen. It’s not going to happen because small market teams don’t operate like that and I understand baseball. If you think it’s going to happen you should bet money on it because betting even a dollar on it will probably make you more money than you’ve ever had in your life that’s how ridiculous it is.
That’s the best part about society now. With all these gambling sites everywhere you can gauge how dumb your opinion is. I think this team will win tonight! Looks at odds -300 yep heavy favourite. Good I’m not dumb! I think Ohtani will get traded! +5000. Oh that’s not going to happen. I think he’ll get traded to the rays +200000. Oh I’m missing a chromosome!
Stop throwing a hissy fit. Just because I see the logic in a move doesn’t mean I think it’s likely.
Why do you feel the need to argue with people on this board so much? You’re constantly calling other’s opinions on here stupid when you routinely express some of the dumbest ones.
I think it’s more likely a big market trades for Ohtani but few of them have the prospect capital a TB, Baltimore, or Cincinnati have.
Unless Arte changes his stance on dealing with the Dodgers, he’s going to have to settle for lesser packages from SF, SD, or NYY. Those teams just don’t have the amount of top prospects have. Stay miserable and keep arguing about events you can’t predict. If you’re so sure where he’s going, why don’t you go place a bet? I swear the amount of idiots who go responding to comments they disagree with here is higher than any other sports website.
@deGrom Texas Ranger
Easy there, Scoop. Tip back a few more. The only injury Otani suffered today was a bruised ego.
I read on MLB GameDay there was an injury delay when he left. Reports seem to confirm that. His ego isn’t the only thing he injured yesterday.
Harrison, Luciano, Bart, Ramos, Schmitt & to Angels for Ohtani
Angels should trade Shohei along with Rendon and 100% of his contract for a player to be named. Their never going to get value for Ohtani with players, but unloading Rendon would be legit!!
Nobody is taking Rendon’s contract or giving him a roster spot for anything.
SF!! It is now time to empty the farm and picks
I would trade Ohtani and Trout.
Ohtani has a huge amount of value with a team that wants to resign him and is making one last attempt at a playoff run to convince him to stay… that ask is gonna be insane.
No he doesn’t. No team is going to trade the farm in hopes that their city’s great sushi restaurants will persuade Ohtani to love them.
A team might offer the Angels a top 30 prospect, maybe even a top 10 if their window is closing and this locks down a postseason spot, but more than that would be ridiculous. No team will otherwise give up their future for a DH and a pitcher with a FIP over 4.00.
Should see if they can attach Rendon in any trade
Should see if they can attach Rendon in any trade without throwing in any $$ beyond this season
Maybe the Yankees can send Volpe, Peraza, and Garcia to the halos. (Roll eyes)
It’s time to trade him as painful as it might be if it is known you can’t extend him before the deadline. So many teams have traded their top talent player for a haul of prospects and used that haul to compete for decades after. A compensation round pick would be a sad consolation for such a talent.
I think the LA Dodgers are the team that has that prospect haul and is most likely the destination for a talent like Ohatani. Ryan Pepiot, Diego Cartaya, Michael Busch, Emmit Sheehan, and Dustin May would be an incredible haul. It would be extremely pricey to give up this much talent, but I believe the Dodgers could also pull off an extension with Ohatani at a record contract level and by no means are any of those prospects guaranteed to produce. I do believe Pepiot and Busch will be starters and May if he can be healthy would be a high upside arm. Cartaya is still very raw and I sense hit or miss. Sheehan looks like a number 3-5 starter.
I see the Dodgers going all in and the prospect capital to do that is there. The chance at locking up a generational talent is enticing for a team that as already loaded and gives the Dodgers likely 2-3 more titles in the next 5 years.
As for the Halos they get quantity which lowers the risk of all 5 prospects being a bust. If they can manage 2 All Stars from that trade it would be worthwhile.
Would the Dodgers go all in with that much prospect capital to gain a few titles? Would Ohatani extend with a loaded team like the Dodgers? For a record contract I could see it happening. For the chance to create control through an extension I see the Dodgers potentially doing this.
If the Angels are smart they should get as much as they can and not water down the return by forcing a team to take on Rendon with Ohatani.
Makes more sense for the Dodgers to wait until the offseason to strike on Ohtani. They’re gonna have to pay him stupid money either way.
If it were me as the GM of the Dodgers I would likely wait it out. That said a title is a title and they have such a deep farm system I could see them striking and maybe even do a trade and sign. They would go way over the luxury tax this year with his arbitration number, but rather than having to compete on the open market they could lock him in early.
Dodgers can afford to compete on the open market. If they’re gonna have to pay him stupid money anyway there’s no reason to give up prospects on top of that.
… and I wanna be a fire truck.
I’ll just say this. At the amounts being bandied about that it will cost to extend him – $600 million/$50 million per/12 years – hard pass. There is NO WAY his body and arm holds up to all the wear. It is going to end up an albatross of a contract in what, 3 years tops? Mark. My. Words.
@beyou02215 Consider, too, that any big market club will be going over the LT threshold every year of their 12 year, 600 million dollar deal for Ohtani, meaning the cost will be close to or even above 1 billion dollars for a player who will be 29 when the deal starts, and who is likely to break down sooner than the average player, given all the wear.
It only takes one lunatic to break the bank, but 12/600m is absurd and it might even be the case that the handful of GMs who we think might conceivably go that high simply won’t do it.
Big Halo Fan. So far I haven’t seen one trade suggestion that’s even in the realm of what I would want in return if Perry actually flips Ohtani. I’d want a young MLB superstar, some pitching, plus best prospects or it’s not even worth the trouble and he can ride out the season as a Halo and we see what happens. Also, would love if Perry could move Rendon’s contract somehow. Maybe offer one of the Angels decent SPs along with him for not much in return to a team that wants pitching for a run this season.
Don’t think the Halos are ever getting a “young superstar, pitching, plus bests prospects” back for a rental….the only way an acquiring team makes a move is if they are family sure they have a better than 50/50 chance (west coast AL and NL teams in contention) of signing him after this season……delusional to think a rental is going to get you the return you suggest.
Yup. Your trading for 2 months of Ohtani, not 2 years. Ultimately the Angels have to decide if they are going to trade him and take the best offer (whatever that may be) OR have an ask like the above (young MLB superstar, best prospects, etc.) and hold onto him, likely miss the playoffs and then have him walk in free agency for nothing. I also say, the longer you hold him, the more risk an injury could sap all of his trade value!!! After all, these guys, even Ohtani, are human, not machines.
Tuna was so far off I assumed he was trolling.
Lol, not a troll. Just a 30+ year Angel diehard who wants something ridiculous for Ohtani or would rather let him play out the season and see what happens. No one knows Ohtani’s value, that’s the cold hard truth. All total armchair quarterback guesses. Yankees could offer something unreal, none of us really know.
I want a badass superstar in return though or no deal.
I also think Rendon’s swipe at that A’s fan was super weak and Halos should trade him for pennies if even possible.
If you think you have a good chance of signing him then trading for him makes even less sense. Can sign him after the season and keep your prospects.
Sorry, it is not about what you want or what Perry wants. Your team in on the cusp of losing a generational talent and you will get a compensatory pick. That’s the bar any team needs to get over. He is an amazing talent; but, any leverage the Angels might have is diminishing by the day.
I actually agree with you norcal. The leverage is for sure taking a hit day after day. But holding onto Ohtani and getting the compensatory pick is classic Angels management. Angels drafted Trout with a compensatory pick they got from the Yankees signing Mark Teixeira. I’m not saying I like the idea of holding onto Ohtani just for a pick, I’m just saying it’s classic Angel decision making and I’m sort of numb to it I guess so it doesn’t bother me.
Threads. *Clown Emoji*
He’s going. They have signed $1B (BILLION) worth of players in the last 10 years and have gotten ZERO in return. Not one player. You think a comp pick is gonna be enough? He is not signing here.
Ohtani is obviously an amazing talent, but this is baseball, not basketball. It takes 26 players and a well-run organization to win consistently, and it takes all that plus good fortune to win a championship. One guy can’t make you a winner…. not even a guy this good.
Right. However, Ohtani is a global attraction. Huge revenue for a team.
True….but if he leaves the Halos, he has said wining is the important factor in his decision so he’s not concerned as to the marketing he will create for an acquiring team…..another words, he won’t consider signing with a team that does’t afford him the opportunity to play on a “winner”….hear that Dodgers!
And for all those Phillies, Yankee, and Bosox fans thinking they have a chance….you don’t….he isn’t coming to the East Coast!
The Soto trade looked unlikely as well.
Interesting.
All these comments and I think DeGrom is the only comment that questioned his pitching. Ohtani has a 4.35/4.61 ERA/FIP over his last 12 starts. In fact, his FIP for the entire season is only 4.02.
Given the sky-high evals, he looks risky to me. Kind of like drafting Rocker really high despite the red flags.
Cohen will take Ohtani, Trout and Rendon.
The asking price probably starts at “your entire farm system,” and I don’t think anybody will bite.
If you want to couple Rendon with Ohtani, then your return is zero.
Y’all have to relax, His combined hitting & pitching bWAR is 6.2 for approximately 2/3rd of a season. Assuming that this remains consistent for the remaining 1/3rd, one should expect 2.1 WAR. Way too many people are overrating him.
IMHO, I think you can get more value from dependable #3+ SPs like Montgomery, Flaherty, Giolito, etc.
I believe you are discounting his hitting too much. He’s on pace to break Judge’s HR record. He’s one of the top, if not the very top, sluggers in the game.
The pitching is only a bonus.
It’s possible. But as a DH, he doesn’t have any periods great than 1 WAR/month. I’m not sure how much teams will pay for even the best DH.
Your math isn’t working.
Um, Rendon has a full no trade clause..
No one in their right mind would trade for Rendon and that contract. Angels should make him part of the deal if they trade Ohtani. Probably their only chance to get rid of him. .
Come on Farhan, it’s time for the Giants to make a splash.
San Francisco really needs Ohtani, makes too much sense.
Yesterdays game is a great example of why Ohtani will walk and why the trade needs to happen. Ohtani is pitching very well until one inning where he loses his feel a bit. That should be okay though because there are 8 other MLB players on the field with him who are deemed to be competent. At least that is what you would hope. Not the case though. Ball is hit to the 1st baseman who has a mental lapse and instead of getting the double play takes the 1 out at first. In the same inning, and to extend the inning further, our 3rd baseman makes an error costing us a run and advancing the runners. Later while we are at the plate, a hitter pops up a bunt into a double play with runners at first and second. This type of play is a repetitive pattern on this team with exception to only a few players, Ohtani being one of them. If you are Ohtani, and you are doing your job, and you are surrounded by incompetance wouldn’t you want to leave? More games have been lost due to players not doing their basic jobs than 2-3 players doing their job can overcome. Last nights game was gifted to the Astros with a pretty bow on top with another outing of what looked like th Bad News Bears team but with a great pitcher. The one inning that Ohtani struggled with command he couldnt rely on his defense to bail him out. And management sends a reliable glove in Fletch down, doesn’t start Escobar at 3rd who we specifically went after for help at 3rd and instead starts a young man who has failed to show defensive consistancy or any type of plate discipline this year. The thing that I see is management isn’t really serious about winning now when they start Rengifo at 3rd because he is costing more runs than he is producing which is difficult to do as a MLB player. There were also better options. Don’t think that Ohtani doesn’t recognize this and that he isn’t frustrated by the lack of support.
Ohtani for Soto and Darvish…
Hard to trade a guy that is best in baseball because that one guy fills TWO spots at all-star level. Teams wont give up top prospects or players without knowing how free-agency will be with Ohtani. — no one wants to give up a ton for 2 months even if its Ohtani. His price may exceed so many teams
Teams won’t deal unless they can get a multi-year deal with him prior to trade (like NBA sign and trade).
Angels are caught in the curse of the Ohtani — trade away the best two player since Ruth.
They need to look at teams with heavy asian market that has winning in their history to even maybe get something. Then there is bag him with dead weight contracts…to team aching to have Ohtani.
Angels are in a real bad spot….all they needed was better pitching surrounding Trout and build a farm system that could restock — while they got great pitcher with Ohtani they didnt continue the search.
Ohtani isn’t going to agree to a sign-and-trade. No reason to.
Ohtani has repeatedly said he wants to win. He’s not staying with the Angels. The fan base won’t like it if he’s traded, but they’ll be pissed if he leaves for nothing. The Angels couldn’t make it work. They need to trade him.
Read an article where the angels would want from the Giants Harrison, Luciano, and Whisenhunt for Ohtani….that’s no. 14, 67 and 70 on mlbs top 100. All three in upper minors. If I were the Giants, I would pass. That’s a crazy ask for 2 months. Haha those three should be untouchable
Agreed. It’s a ridiculous price. Half of what the Dodgers paid for Scherzer and Turner should be the maximum.
Anyone can trade for Ohtani. First, the Angels get to pick the three players they want from that team for Ohtani the hitter. Then they get another three players the Angels get to pick for Ohtani the pitcher. Easy as that. They get the first chance to sign Ohtani in the winter. Since Ohtani is two players you have to give up twice as much. It won’t make much sense to most teams but there might be a team or two who really need him now and want to sign him. Seems like the Dodgers and Yankees are two teams.
trade him. he’ll probably end up a Dodger anyways. he should come to Texas if he wants the best chance to win multiple world series. they seem like they’ll be in content for a few years whereas the Angels never are. that would give Texas the best team in baseball. I wouldn’t give up much for him unless I’m sure I can sign him to a new contract. I don’t think he’ll be traded. why deplete your farm system for a couple of months of a rental player?
Don’t give up much, no Ohtani for you. They don’t have to trade him. Anyone who wants him will give up six players. There are teams that can use him this season and might want the best chance of signing him.
Trade ohtani, Rendon, and the front office because the angels FO has been a joke for decades. It sucks that such talent like Ohtani and Trout get out weighted by the inability to put a decent team around them.
I’m “considering” becoming a pro baseball player myself
Ohtani signs in a big market during free agency. No way his agent pushes him to resign with any club that trades for him unless said club is his overall preferred destination to sign long term.
Since the Angels are willing to trade him that indicates he isn’t resigning with them. They don’t even have negotiations going on. That all points to his agent and himself aren’t interested in going back to the Angels.
So your only teams left are the Dodgers, Padres, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Rangers and Astros, Sox and Cubs, and the Mariners on the fringe due to their proximity to Japan and their Asian community.
Personally, I can’t see the Astros, Cubs or White Sox willing to spend 400-500 million on him. Seattle can spend if need be and playing with Julio may be enticing for Ohtani. I wouldn’t rule them out. I’m not sure where the Padres keep getting quarter billion dollar decade long contracts from, but sooner or later you’re going to go broke. Can they afford Soto and Ohtani on a billion dollars over the next decade and a half? They’re dumb enough to do it. The Red Sox love Japanese players and can spend when they want to. We all know Cohen has the $, and the Rangers haven’t hid from big dollar deals. Hal complains when he spends money because he thinks Gallo + Hicks + Donaldson + Stanton should equate to rings, so his stupidty baffles me. If George was running the ship you’d have Soto, Trout, Judge and Ohtani in the lineup, but knowing his buffoon of a son doesn’t know the difference between up and down I wouldn’t hold your breathe in hopes that ohtani is a Yankee long term. Knowing Cashman he’d dump prospects for 2 months then play hardball during negotiations and watch Ohtani leave for Seattle.
Just let him go. Ask him what his top choices are and get the best deal you can. If you wait til the off-season you get nothing.
Most conjecture is absurd. Ohtani is surely worth less than half of what the Dodgers paid for 2 months of Scherzer and 1 season + 2 months of Trea Turner.
So, something like a Kiebert Ruiz for Shohei. Nothing more.
Buster Olney is eagerly Hoping he goes to the Yankees. He can’t wait to pimp every good player to go to them. He’s a big market shill.
I would say the likelihood of the Angels trading Ohtani is about 10% but if they do the two teams that should be pushing all in should be the Giants and Red Sox. Both have talent in the minors and young talent that the Angels want. Main issue for the Red Sox is can they actually climb into the playoffs and have Sale and Ohtani as SP for the playoffs. The GIants should be able to stay in playoff hunt and have a better chance at resigning Ohtani.
It doesn’t matter how much sense it makes or what any writer says or even what Minasian says. ALL that matters is what Arte wants and he has said unequivocally that he was not trading Ohtani.