As the trade deadline is now just over two weeks away, various clubs on the fringes of contention will have to make tough decisions about which players to trade and which to hang onto. The toughest decision and the one that is sure to get the most attention in the coming weeks is whether or not the Angels will trade two-way superstar Shohei Ohtani.
As of a few weeks ago, general manager Perry Minasian said the club’s position was “self-explanatory” at a time when they were 41-34 and in possession of a Wild Card spot. That seemed to suggest the club had no intention of trading Ohtani, though much has changed since then, with the club sliding in the standings prior to the All-Star break while also getting the grim news that Mike Trout is going to miss four to eight weeks after undergoing surgery for a fractured hamate.
With their record falling to 45-44 by last week, reporting indicated they seemed to be “leaving open the slight possibility” of making Ohtani available. After that report, the club lost two more games and went into the break at 45-46, fourth place in the West and five games back of the Blue Jays for the final Wild Card spot in the American League. Their playoff odds on FanGraphs are down to 10.7%. Today, Jon Morosi of MLB Network echoes that earlier reporting, taking to Threads to relay that the club will consider incoming trade scenarios, even though their bar for a trade remains incredibly high and a deal is still considered unlikely.
It’s not terribly surprising to hear that the club will listen to whatever offers come their way from other clubs. This is one of the toughest decisions a baseball club has ever had to make and it stands to reasons that they would want as much information as possible about each path before picking one.
The reasons for the difficulty of the decision are both due to the unique talent of Ohtani and the precarious position of the Angels. Ohtani’s skills are unprecedented and well-documented, but here’s a refresher if you need one. Dating back to the start of 2021, he’s hit 112 home runs, a tally bested only by Aaron Judge in that time. His combined batting line of .274/.369/.579 in those seasons amounts to a 154 wRC+, which places him fourth among qualified hitters in that stretch behind only Judge, Trout and Yordan Alvarez. He’s done all that while posting a 2.86 ERA as a pitcher in just under 400 innings, with that earned run mark the eight best among qualified pitchers.
One player managing to simultaneously serve as one of the best pitchers and best hitters in the game is something that seemed unfathomable until Ohtani came along and reshaped our perceptions of what is possible in this game. But despite being the only club that has such a player on their roster, the Angels haven’t been able to construct a winning team around him. They haven’t even been able to finish with a record above .500 since 2015. With Ohtani set to become a free agent in a few months’ time, their window for achieving that goal is rapidly closing.
This isn’t the first time the prospect of an Ohtani trade has come up, as similar reports emerged one year ago. The club still had a year and a half of Ohtani’s services to bank on at that time, but they were even further back in the standings, sporting a record of 42-57. Ultimately, a deal didn’t come together, with owner Arte Moreno reportedly being the one that prevented a deal from being seriously pursued. The club didn’t consider trades in the offseason either and had planned to give contention another try, hoping to both capitalize on Ohtani’s contributions while also convincing him to stay beyond the 2023 season by showing him they could win.
With the club now once again floundering outside of contention, they will have to pick their poison soon, with all signs pointing to the fact that the club’s performance in the next few weeks could push them in one direction one way or another. Ohtani’s unique abilities, not to mention marketability, would be highly sought after by all contending clubs. The Angels will undoubtedly have offers that will allow them to completely restock their farm system, which could help them in future seasons. But doing so would mean trying to win without Ohtani in those future seasons, and with Trout now into his 30s with injuries becoming a more frequent issue.
Trading the most uniquely-talented baseball player of all time would undoubtedly be incredibly painful, not to mention a potential public relations nightmare, which perhaps might lead the club to holding on and hoping for the best down the stretch. It’s worth reiterating that all reporting indicates a deal is still unlikely, merely that the club is listening to offers that other clubs are making, not that they are shopping him around. However, not trading him contains what is surely the worst-case scenario of missing the playoffs and then seeing him depart in free agency for next to nothing. The club would be able to issue him a qualifying offer and recoup a compensatory draft pick, but the value of that will be far less than whatever offers will be on the table in the next few weeks.
All things considered, it doesn’t seem hyperbolic to say that the future of the Angels will be determined in the coming weeks. Although a deal still seems unlikely, it doesn’t seem to be completely off the table. If they flounder in their upcoming games and decide to on a trade, it will likely be some kind of franchise-altering return that’s difficult to predict since a trade of this nature has never happened before. Last year, the club reportedly wanted “something like your top four prospects” in trade talks. The price may well have dropped now that Ohtani has just a few months of remaining control, but it would likely still be very high. Given the dilemma that the club’s decision makers are in, it stands to reason that they would want to give a thorough assessment to all offers so that they know exactly what their options are.
But perhaps they stay close enough to decide against such a move, trying to compete without Trout for at least part of the near future. If it works, perhaps they can convince Ohtani to re-sign, though he hasn’t tipped his hand one way or another as to whether that’s something he would seriously consider or what his priorities will be in free agency beyond winning. The Angels start a homestand tonight against the Astros, Yankees and Pirates, then go out on the road to Toronto, Detroit and Atlanta before the August 1 deadline.
Show me the way
The team that trades for him has a huge advantage of resigning him especially if they make the playoffs this year! Cohen would be willing to eat Rendon’s contract so trade him to the Mets plus one mlb starter back! Clears the books and replaces
That’s not a bad idea…
Sure, if the Angels wanted to give Ohtani for free and pay another team to get rid of Rendon all at the same time. Rendon’s contract is a bigger negative than the value Ohtani retains for a 1/2 season. Ohtani carries about a $46.6M positive trade value based on baseballtradevalues.com (which is flawed but does at least give a reference point for discussion, they are by no means my version of the trade value “Bible”), while Rendon comes with a -$98.7M which is made possible by the fact that any fat guy on a barstool could hit better and stay healthier. I digress, my apologies, the point is that the Angels would have to send both Ohtani and Rendon along with $52.1M to the Mets for a bag of baseballs that the Angels would then have to pay for C.O.D. (cash on delivery). Plus taking on those two contracts would mean paying $100M in luxury tax for this year and another $250M for Rendon including penalty tax over the next three seasons. I really hope you never run a business, become an accountant, or psychologist/psychiatrist because you clearly lack business acumen, financial savvy, and are equally as inept at giving advice.
And you clearly lack tact and decency. And based on the length of your postd, demonstrating how much you think you know.
Fight with the wife tonight? Sounds like she won.
The prospect return will be huge for Ohtani. That needs to be the number one priority. You can live with that negative Rendon contract
That may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read
Thank god angels. Great post. The Mets would be incredible stupid to take on rendon giving where their luxury tax situation is.
I think fans in general would be surprised at just how few teams would seriously bid for Ohtani during the season. If you take out the small market and the non contenders and all the central teams. You’re left with:
Orioles- too soon, they’ve spent a decade getting the best farm it would be stupid to unload a ton to get him for 2 months.
Blue jays- weak farm system no chance to resign him with Vlad and bo coming up
Yankees- probably don’t have the farm but one of the favourites in my opinion to get him if he is moved.
Astros- highly unlikely angels trade him to astros
Rangers- why they would want to potentially give the angels a bunch of controllable players for 2 months of Ohtani would be beyond me but who knows how dumb their owner is.
Mariners- better off waiting till free agency not a serious contender this year either
Atlanta- why? Look like a powerhouse can acquire other cheaper pieces and probably still win
Marlins- makes little sense for these teams who have struggled for years to become contenders to blow their prospect capital just for one year.
Phillies- probably don’t have the farm. If they did DD is the type of gm who would make a stupid impulsive move like that. He’d just wouldn’t deal with the consequences of it a couple years later
Mets- not a contender this year.
Dodgers- their baseball ops people are way too smart to blow their wad when they know they’re probably positioned the best to get him in free agency.
Giants- their gm is also too smart.
Padres- don’t have the pieces, probably regretting that Soto deal if Ohtani actually gets traded. Because they’ve got a dumb owner and dumb gm.
Arizona- see orioles
In conclusion based on the amount of teams I think that’d be really motivated to acquire him at the deadline id bet on him staying an angel.
That’s a horrible idea.
Would never happen, of course, but the Orioles could get Ohtani for maybe 3 blue-chip prospects (even 2 and a roster player) and would barely dent the farm system. Right now, Baltimore is almost overloaded with talent. A trade or three are in the offing over this offseason or next.
iverbure The Phillies certainly have the farm to make this trade, but they already have some significant financial commitments. I can see them getting Ohtani as a rental, but I don’t think they can sign him longterm. With that in mind, I hope they don’t do it. As exciting as Ohtani is, half a season of the best player in the world is still only half a season, and no guarantee of anything.
Why would any team give up Ohtani for free and send 52mil to take Rendon with him?? Ha.. ha.. I don’t care what your magical book says, when he is healthy he is the best third baseman the Angels probably have. Is he worth the 38 mil he signed for definitely not, but he isn’t Vernon Wells!
pork – That deal would work for the Angels, but not the Mets. I think Cohen has realized throwing more money away will not increase his chances of winning a championship. He pulled the classic bratty rich kid mistake of assuming he can buy anything he wants, but now he realizes he can’t always buy a championship.
Any team interested in trading for Ohtani should be afforded the same opportunity the Red Sox had when they traded for Pedro, make the trade contingent on a 48-hour opportunity to sign Ohtani to an extension. If they fail to reach an extension agreement during that 48-hour period, the trade is off. Otherwise I don’t see any team being willing to give up a boatload of talent for just a 2-3 month rental.
Nice breakdown but you forgot about the #1 team that fits, the Rays: Loaded with prospects that are all basically blocked for years to come.
It will take more than 3 players to acquire him.
How are they “blocked”? Only way the Rays acquire him is if they get him to sign a high AAV short term extension (3 years at $60mil per with a $30mil signing bonus). But I don’t think that will be accepted. Rays are not afraid to trade roster players or some prospects to improve or to open up roster spots.
fljay73, it depends on the 3 players. Acuña, Strider, Albies? Done.
Of course, Atlanta would never do that.
Those comments annoy me. Like “3” what? A #25, #50 and #75, and Moreno should offer to drive Ohtani to his new team (he still wouldn’t accept).. Three fringy #150 types and Moreno hangs up.
I would still trade him for whatever I could get. The reason for doing this? It is the smart move. As for saying they couldn’t sign him to a contract if they trade him, that is a lot of baloney. There is no rule that states a team can trade their player and then be ineligible to signing him as a free agent. The Yankees traded Aroldis Chapman to the Cubs. Who did he sign with as a free agent? That’s right. The Yankees. The Indians traded Kenny Lofton to the Braves. When he became a free agent, he signed with Cleveland. Shohei can be traded to a team with a very good chance of winning the world series and decide he likes it in Anaheim. I personally hope he doesn’t get traded because I love the idea of the Angels losing just because of their stupid name. I love the free agent signings that they have regretted. Josh Hamilton was a crackhead waiting to fall off the wagon. King Albert is two years older than is reported. Rendon has been a total bust. Keep Ohtani and be lousy the next five years.
I don’t think being given 48 hours has been done in a long time. The Rays could give up two or three prospects, possibly win the World Series and know they will wave goodbye to Shohei.
100% agree and flags fly forever..
The Orioles have surplus upon surplus to trade for a guy who would actually fit in perfectly for their playoff run.
No I didn’t. Because they’re a small market which crosses them off immediately.
Gms nowadays are too smart and don’t think like fans. They realize going all in isn’t smart given the playoff format. When teams like the orioles spend nearly a decade accumulating prospects to get a top farm they aren’t going to thin out that depth for a rental even for the best of all time possibly.
youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0
Thank God We Aren’t should open mouth and insert foot! Sold my company for 66M and started it from scratch.. post above posted before I had finished writing it! From the length of your many posts U R basically a Know it All. Get a grip dude! People on here give opinions and make suggestions!
Then you woke up from your dream. None of that happened
Ohtani does not have to sign an extension tho. I’m sure the Angels and any potential suitor would love this, but why would Ohtani sign an extension now?? Unless he dies on the mound he is getting paid and can drive a bidding war or sign wherever he chooses. He’s cam this far he’s not gonna b signing any extension as a trade contingency.
believe – You’re right, it hasn’t been done in a long time. Not sure why though, it would benefit all parties to have that assurance of knowing the acquired player will not leave after a couple months.
Fever, it wouldn’t benefit Ohtani. Barring an acquiring team blowing him away with an offer or him getting injured before the season ends, he’s best served by reaching free agency and talking to every interested team
I’m sorry you lost your support pillow, but what I wrote before was not indecent, maybe a little harsh, but no need to exaggerate. Based on the 11 up votes shows that others agree with me, which means you either don’t know anything or are such a decent person as to criticize me unfairly because you want to show that you are some social media vigilante. While I wasn’t shooting moon beams and rainbows out of my “big dumper” in my previous post, your ignorance left me feeling like you might need someone calling you on your crap as much as you felt justified to do the same to me. I suggest you leave it alone and walk away before you hurt yourself and let the adults with big boy pants talk.
“I really hope you never run a business, become an accountant, or psychologist/psychiatrist because you clearly lack business acumen, financial savvy, and are equally as inept at giving advice.”
You’re right, that’s a classy comment.
The Phillies also need to probably leave the DH spot open for Harper with all the injury issues he deals with, so he can at least take a couple half days each week and let some of the other guys get a breather from time to time.
Michael Lorenzen was also the most viable All-Star for the Tigers, but that doesn’t mean he deserved to be there and while I agree Rendon’s contract isn’t worth moving. I would not argue his value over other 3B on the team and would not be above acquiring someone to replace him either at the MLB level or as a prospect, even if you do have to move him to 1B, DH him or sit him on the bench part of the time.
The reason they won’t do a 48-hour negotiation window is for three simple reasons…
One, if he signs with another team that quickly people will ask why the Angels couldn’t have done this sooner.
Two, watching another team extend him without even wearing their jersey would be an indictment of the Angels organization and one that goes beyond simply not getting over the .500 mark.
Three, they would be permanently closing the door for what an extra prospect who is barely in the Top 10 of the team acquiring Shohei, At least if they trade him and he reaches free agency, they can try to spin the story to say they wanted to make sure they weren’t left empty handed, but at the same time will be trying to reacquire him during the offseason as a free agent.
Fan perception is huge and only more important the bigger the star and Ohtani is the biggest star out there right now. The other thing that should be considered with the issue of trading him is that teams usually don’t want to miss a chance to maximize the return for a player because of the development cost, but they never developed Ohtani, he was a finished product when he got to the United States.
The biggest indictment of the Angels organization is the chump change they paid him for prior to 2023, they shouldn’t be worried about that at all. In fact, I’m fairly certain that the below market arbitration contracts prior to this season also rubbed him the right way. He got paid $3M and $5.5M during his first two arb years and if I really wanted to build good faith in negotiating with him, I would have paid even more to ensure he felt respected and valued. Even if I didn’t have to do it, it would’ve been the right thing for the team and the player.
@gbs42 His call back comment that involved zero thought or analysis is why so much is wrong in the world today, so yeah, I’m going to say something because guys like he and you have been coddled too much and too often. You think your social police routine is classy? Just stop being a tool already. I’m not going to see things the way you do, so stop forcing your view of the world on me like it’s the only versión. In my version of the world you’re a hapless blog troll who picks fights with people because you’re still mad about losing your job at Hollywood Video. Get over yourself, you are making it far worse by continuing to cast a light on it. I said it once, you’ve essentially echoed the comment twice which is like screaming in the school cafetería for someone to stop making fun of the fat kid, while everyone stares at the victim of the abuse only to make that person feel twice as attacked. Good job!
I don’t think so, Ohtani is considered a rental player at this point, his best value was last year because any team trading for him would have had him for at least 1.25 years. Now they only get him for two months before free agency. No guarantee of resigning. All they have is the first chance of signing.
Yeah, if I had $66M, I’d be sitting online posting in a baseball blog too!Actually, I have to go, I forgot to feed the unicorns on my private Caribbean island, and as you can imagine, there’s not a lot of natural food sources for them. Luckily they are crazy for lucky charms and green milk!
But he wants to go to a contender so how do the Mets make any sense?
They don’t.
This is why Mets fans are the most hated fan base on here. The lack of self-awareness they posses is stunning.
Smaky your close about Mets you have the correct city wrong Burrough ….. Yanks probably most hated also most loved so put that in your pipe n smoke it … I mean this in nicest way.
@Yanksfan75,as a Mariners fan who grew up in Seattle, we have the fan base most likely to smoke something out of a pipe, if we are being honest.
He’s not going to the Mets, he wants to play on a contender, and the Angels aren’t going to diminish a return by trying to attach a bad contract. Mets suck, Ohtani will have no interest, and he likely doesn’t want to go East Coast anyway.
Every one wants to “go to a contender.” Almost none of them really mean it, in terms of prioritizing that consideration over all others. It’s amazing sports fans keep getting fooled by that basic piece of PR that every agent teaches every athlete when they’re drafted or signed.
seamaholic 2 I think it’s a bit different when the guy has never played for a contender before and is good enough to have serious interest from every high spending contender. His value on the field and off of it is unmatched.
There’s zero doubt he’s going to get a historic mega deal. Every high spender will and should be in on him. It’s just a matter of which teams mega deal will he accept.
If he wanted to get paid whatever he wants to play on a crappy team with no chance to win because it’s all about the money. I think he would stay in Southern California and take those big fat checks from Artie. He doesn’t need to go to New York to get paid and he doesn’t need to switch teams to the Mets to be on a team that sucks. So why would he need to PR a move to a losing team that will overpay when he already is on one that has proven a willingness to overpay an aging player? Example 1: Josh Hamilton; Example 2 Albert Pujols, Example 3 Anthony Rendon, etc.
If he wants to go to a contender wouldn’t that mean angels have no hope or slim hope of resigning him in the off-season given their lack of playoff bound seasons?
Depending on how he feels about resigning or signing an extension should dictate how the angels approach.
If he’s on the fence or less than 90% open I’d attach Rendon and another bad contract to him to a contender.
Sure you don’t get prospects but getting rid of dead money on the books is a huge win.
Seattle
Lol
Seam while I’d agree in terms of just about every other player Ohtani if he was after money would have stayed in Japan for a couple more years instead played for peanuts the first couple years in the US.
The angels aren’t going to attach bad contracts to lessen the return.
You don’t trade the best player in baseball just to get money off the books. You trade get 3 or 4 prospects who make you a winning team again
You do when you’re shedding not only 38 million off the books in 2024 2025 and 2026 in Rendon but also Tyler Anderson and his 13 mill salary in 2024 and 2025
Freeing up 51 million in 2024 and 2025 goes a long ways.
Atlanta traded peak Craig Kimbrel to get rid of BJ Upton’s contract. They did use a compensation pick they got as part of the deal to draft Austin Riley.
Math it’s not going to happen. The angels aren’t going to do what you’re suggesting, if they do trade him they won’t be attaching multiple bad contracts.
Iverbure the comment section psychic
Aren’t we all lucky to have you predicting the future. Have you worked in an MLB front office or did you learn all that insider info from your keyboard?
Yes to your first question. I’m expecting your apology shortly after the trade deadline by the way.
I live in reality if that’s a problem for you that’s too bad. If you don’t like it don’t say idiotic things and you won’t be told on the internet it’s not going to happen.
Then who signs with them? I’m pretty sure they would’ve signed better free agents if they could’ve in the past.
Manfred I accept your apology for suggesting such a ludicrous trade scenario that would never happen in real life. I told you so.
Lol what makes you think the Mets are going to be buyers?? The Mets will be sellers this year. The Yankees will make a play for him then try to sign him this off season
@tanger – the Mets have enough cash to begin building for next year this year. They could offer him $55M+ per and not even blink. The Mets also have MLB ready players to move, such as Alvarez, Baty, Mauriciano, Parada, and take on Rendon’s contract if necessary. What do the Yankees have to offer besides Volpe? The Yankee farm system is overrated and Dominguez is probably going to be later than expected for his cup of coffee.
55 is not in question. The floor is 60. His agent knows he’s worth 30 at the dish and 30 on the mound. One could easily argue either of those individual figures are low. Let the bidding begin…
@padam, there’s no need to trade a bunch of young players and take on Rendon’s contract when it improves your odds of signing Ohtani by the tiniest amount.
@padam “the Mets have enough cash to begin building for next year this year. They could offer him $55M+ per and not even blink”
Which is exactly why the Mets would be idiotic to trade for him. Money is their greatest asset and they can offer that in free agency without giving up any young talent. The Mets are currently 8 games out of the last Wild Card spot. Ohtani doesn’t bring them to the playoffs. He’s a great player, but not an 8 game swing. Look at the Angels with Ohtain and Trout. The Mets will be selling this year. They can attempt to buy Ohtani in Free Agency.
@gbs – yeah, I’m not suggesting they trade them all, but rather just illustrating that they have assets that LAA would be interested in. Rendon alone would probably be enough, but that’s only if the Mets have that kind of appetite.
@von – and if someone else trades for him, there’s no guarantee that he wouldn’t sign with them, for example the Dodgers who also have the cash to sign him. Now he’s off the market and you never had a chance.
@gR8 – I put the + in there for that very reason and agree that $60 could certainly be the number, but there’s an enormous risk attached to him as well. While he can provide teams with an extra player on the bench, an injury can also cause the loss of two in his case. I’m also not sure which owner is willing to be the first to hit $60, nonetheless $50. That’s a hit other owners are going to frown upon.
there’s no guarantee that he wouldn’t sign with them,
========================
The assumption in here is that he will be a good signing, and that you are getting a bargain. Most FAs aren’t bargains.
Maybe more important, trading good assets for him puts more pressure on the team to sign him. That’s what happened to Lindor and the NYM. IMHO, they overpaid because they felt pressure to extend him.
Joe,
I don’t think anyone thinks Ohtani will be a FA bargain because as you said, most aren’t. But he’s a truly unique talent who is virtually guaranteed to make a team better for at least the next few seasons.
Trading with the expectation of signing him to an extension before he reaches free agency is foolish. There’s no reason for him not to explore all his options.
My assumption as well. The practical way to extend the guy is to overpay, which defeats the purpose of trading to extend.
He’s purely a DH at the plate due to his pitching. Pure DHs do not command $30M AAV. Teams also risk Ohtani the pitcher getting hurt and losing Ohtani the batter and vice versa. So no he will not b getting paid the max value for both the hitter and pitcher. There is gonna b a premium he ll get for both and a discount team gets to offset risk. I think the often speculated $50M AAV will probably b the most likely.
He’s actually a plus runner, and played 1st base, and outfield in Japan, and was good defensively. He’s only a dh because he pitches, and rarely takes a day off in the lineup.
” ‘team trading for ohtani has a huge advantage re-signing him’ ”
That might be typically true wrt trading for a rental player free agent to be. I do not think it is applicable in ohtani’s case simply because he stands to shatter all records for biggest contract in sports history if and when he hits the open market. If I’m ohtani there’s no way I’m signing anything with anybody until I’ve availed myself of the entire market because there’s a chance I could actually get a billion dollars. Somebody might offer up 1 billion for 13 years or something.
There is little to no advantage gained in resigning a player by acquiring him two months before he reached free agency.
I think the Mariners have to be the favorites because they are willing to pay for the right player, he lived in Seattle during the offseason TWICE, they have a young core, great farm system, and have been allocating money for this opportunity since they came out of the rebuild two years ago. My guess is that everything Dipoto did including the original timelines were made with the intent to get Ohtani. He is obsessed with him. As for the money, the Mariners were the most profitable team in the league, have the biggest geographical market, own their own station, and get paid broadcasting rights by the Trailblazers, the Kraken, the Sounders, and the Timbers, besides regional college teams and other sporting events. That’s a ton of income.
“He is obsessed with him.”
You know this how?
What are you smoking?
First off, he won’t be the biggest contract in sports – there are quite a few massive football (soccer) contracts out there,
both for full term and annual rate.
Secondly, Ohtani is 29 and not getting anywhere close to a billion dollar contract. That would be $77m / yr for 13 years, bringing him to age 42-43. He’s also twice as likely to suffer injury as he ages, than a non 2way player.
A contract at 500-600m for the rest of his career is more realistic. Don’t get caught up in the hype… these are still businesses first.
He said it back in 2016, 2017, and 2018. He literally said, “we have scouted Ohtani more extensively than any player in the world.” That pretty concretely speaks to him being obsessed with him.
He won’t re-sign on the East Coast, period. How do I know? Because he could have signed with any of 30 teams 5+ years ago and chose the West Coast. If he wanted money, “legacy”, “pattern of winning”, he would have chosen someone other than the Angels who had put together three below .500 seasons before signing. In the end, the coast he played on was more important than the team’s history of winning or legacy.
Maybe playing with and trying to win a World Series with Trout was appealing.
5+ years ago. Meaningless today.
Based on what? So you are saying his preference to be on the West coast is going to lessen as his family and friends gets older in Japan? He can’t win on the west coast? So how exactly are things going to play out differently, so he decides to consider teams east od the Mississippi as he faces a 10+ year commitment? Aside from your distorted bias which leads you to believe he would want to play for your favorite team, there is no reason to think money or winning requires him to xonsider teams on the east coast, er go, nothing has really changed. Not enough to quantify and certainly not enough to stoke the fires of hope that he will somehow play for your team!
I disagree about the huge advantage of resigning him. Ohtani is arguably the best player ever. His free agency is going to be insane. Whoever trades for him is just getting a rental, but his Free Agency is going to be an epic drama with tons of players and lots of cash.
Because being traded to a team that’s 19.5 games behind the division leading Atlanta Braves is really going to convince him to seriously consider signing with the Mets.
Are the Mets even contending?
This is laughable
You are dreaming if you think the Mets or any team would trade a starting pitcher for Rendon.
I’m going to have to disagree. Patrick Corbin has been pretty horrible. For the right amount of money going to the Nats, I could actually see this happening, but apart from anything to do with Ohtani. Rendon would be like a battleship anchor atached to the sailboat of value that Ohtani still retains through Aug. 1st. I’m kind of enjoying this false hope for 2023 that will tie the hands of the Angels to move Ohtani right before they collapse after the desdline. They’ll lose Ohtani for a draft pick and still miss the playoffs!
The team that trades for him has a huge advantage of resigning him especially if they make the playoffs this year! Cohen would be willing to eat Rendon’s contract so trade him to the Mets plus one mlb starting player back! Clears the books and gives the Angels a chance to start over with only Trouts contract long term!
you could say that again
that again
“The team that trades for him has a huge advantage of resigning him especially if they make the playoffs this year!”
Not at all. Ohtani is going to have offers from almost every single club, and they’re going to be off the charts. Trading for him now gives you absolutely 0 advantage of signing him longterm. This is not a regular player. This free agency is going to be very different.
Also, the Mets with Ohtani have the same playoff odds as the Angels currently do. It would be a huge blunder for Cohen to give up a ton of prospects for half a season of Ohtani just to not make the playoffs and lose Ohtani in Free Agency. That would be the biggest mistake in Mets history.
Basically if the Angels fall out of contention they would be foolish to not entertain an offer for Ohtani via trade.
I said the samething about Xander last year the sox weren’t competing they were last in the standings their payroll was over the luxury tax . They knew that Xander wasn’t staying in Boston and should have traded him for atleast a few players instead they got NOTHING and he walked and if u ask me something with mookie . It’s not that he didn’t want to stay here he wanted too be paid and I dont blame him so instead of getting this massive haul for him they went and got Jeter downs who’s in Washington now . Connor wong who’s just terrible . They could have had a decent relief pitcher but nope they let brusader or however u spell his name lol go too the dodgers and than they get Verdugo he’s ok but not what they gave up . Sorry wasn’t worth it .
Conner Wong is a more than average catcher. Know baseball.
The Red Sox are one of the worst run organizations in baseball, alongside the Yankees, and Dodgers. However, the bias they receive for their prospects, the amount of money they pour into payroll, and the past success masks a lot of their failures. Sure each of those teams have won, but they all have the money and resources to never have any fall off which is why you don’t compare them directly with a team like the Royals who have to compete in cycles.
For those who think I am being overly judgmental of the three teams listed above. The Dodgers opening day roster next season will have a lineup where only Outman (27) and Smith (29) will be under 31 years old. The Red Sox have had two very good prospects come out of their farm (Devers and Bogaerts), however they have had so many more than have failed or had very turbulent careers (Rizzo, Moncada, Casas, etc.) Even when they do well, their GM undermines their success by signing bad players and letting good ones leave. The Yankees team is Judge, Cole, injuries, garbage, regression, hype, and “potential” The Domingo German perfect game is an example of a blind squirrel finding a nut, because nobody believes he’ll ever come close to winning a Cy Young Award.
The Red Sox who have more World Series titles than any other team this century?
Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox are 3 of the best run teams in history. Everyone here is dumber for having read what you wrote, thank god we aren’t angels.
The Dodgers and Yankees are poorly ran? These teams make the playoffs every year. The Dodgers have a recent World Series. Geez.
@gbs42 Stop talking to your ignorance and quit trolling people. The Red Sox organization is nothing like the one that won their last World Series and Red Sox fans would be the first to tell you. Also winning in a vacuum is great, but if the Mets won the World Series in 2023 would you call that a well run organization or a team that bought a championship? The Rays are a widely respected organization because their wins to dolars ration is very high. If you take MLB payroll and divide that by wins, the Yankees, Angels, Dodgers, Red Sox, and Mets would all be near the bottom of that list over the last decade. The teams at the top would be the Rays, Braves, Twins, Cardinals, and Brewers. I judge a GM and their organization by how well they utilize their resources and a team can both win the world series and be a poorly run organization, as the Mets tried to illustrate this year.
Winning a world series does not mean you have a well run organization. Success does not equal efficient nor does it equal effective.
Winning the World Series is, or should be, the goal of every team. If a team does that, it’s done well. Success doesn’t have to be efficient, but it’s effective by definition.
You really need to find something else to do besides write extensive screeds on comments boards. If you reply to this, I won’t see it because I’m Muting you. Buh bye.
Kristian Campbell SS Justin Riemer SS
Both of these players the Red Sox drafted with comp picks for X and Eovaldi. So technically they got a decent draft pick. Which is much better than nothing
Ohtani, Rendon and cash to LAD for Cartaya, Busch, M. Burns, Outman
Rendon no ty the Dodgers are to Hollywood for him. Dodgers don’t need someone who plays permanent IL
That wouldn’t happen lol
The Real Question was how much the Yankees gave up for Babe Ruth?? $100,000 which is 1.54Million in todays inflation. They say the Yankees are the best odds of getting him.. But, I feel The Dodgers have the best package 7 top 100 prospects.. They just have to flip the money..
If you want Ohtani traded you better be cheering for the angels to lose every single game until the deadline and Moreno still might not make the move.
I’m personally cheering for him to be traded. One just to see what the return is and two obviously he’d be getting moved to a contender and seeing him in the playoffs would be great for the game.
Mariners seriously need him. However probably not worth the player hit for half a season.
Everyone needs him but you can’t mortgage the future for two months if you’re the Mariners. If they really want him, blow him away this off-season
I agree. Way too much of a hit on the farm, mariners cant afford it after the Castillo trade. The mariners especially need him, as they need an impactful run producer.
The idea is you trade for him now and that gives you the leg up on signing him in the offseason. Considering the Mariners are probably a place he would want to play regardless I would say it could possibly be worth it.
Also taken into consideration is, are the Angels willing to trade him within the division knowing they will be playing against him?
How many top players on deadline deals end up signing with the team that traded for them? Not many. It’s actually rare. You’re not trading for the future you’re trading to win now.
We’ll wait until the offseason when he returns to his offseason home.
ok he is getting traded. this looks exactly like when the Nats were not going to trade Soto… till they did.
Arte recently “listened to offers” to sell the franchise.
Dodgers and Yankees both have a slew over overhyped prospects they are ready to unload !
The Yanks have fewer prospects, but they are more overhyped!
You are living in the past. The Dodgers are the new league leaders in overhyped prospects.
Doesn’t matter the Angels wouldn’t be getting significant from the Yankees farm system anyway, for a half a season. It’s not worth it.
The heck they wouldnt
No contract extension for Ohtani, then no Peraza, Pereira, or Sweeney from the Yankees farm system. I feel Ohtani will be traded to the Dodgers, where he would be really smart to sign with long-term, let’s face it Ohtani is definitely a West coast guy instead of a East coast guy.
There is ZERO chance he’s traded to the Dodgers.
Why not
The Yankee farm system is such garbage, you barely could afford him as a 1/2 season rental. It would take Chase Hampton, Austin Wells, Roderick Arias, Brando Mayea, and Carson Coleman, The other guys are overrated and severely flawed prospects. Volpe and Peraza suck. Dominguez has huge holes in his swing, and Pereira is probably the only really interesting prospect with any type of track record. If I was to target any players in a trade the only guys I would be excited to get back would be these guys minus Austin Wells, as he was only included because the other four wouldn’t be enough on their own for Shohei.
The Yankees don’t want a rental, so no deal with them. If some team gives 3 or 4 of their top prospects for Ohtani for half a season, they need their head examined.
Because Moreno wouldn’t take the PR hit of trading Ohtani to the local team
No matter who Ohtani aigns with, he is 100% testing free agency. This is the most significant free agent ever. His contract and the bidding war will be nuts. Signing him as a rental won’t give anyone an advantage.
I don’t believe that Von. If the new team is simply allowed to match any offer at the last minute that is an advantage. Doesn’t mean he takes less money but the same money and getting him to actually sign would be valuable.
@King of Cards, I respectfully disagree. Ohtani is not going to give preferential treatment to some team he played a few months on. Multiple teams will be matching offers. This is going to be historic. I really think signing him as a rental means nothing outside of this year.
Is that really preferential treatment? I imagine he’s not gonna be traded to the Twins he’s gonna go to an East or West Coast team that he might have signed for anyways.
If I was the Angels I would try to work out a deal with the Giants or Mariners. That way they get the return for Ohtani but also it gives those teams a leg up on the Dodgers. The Angels don’t want him to sign with the Dodgers that is the last thing they want.
IMHO there is ZERO chance Ohtani is traded ANYWHERE.There are zero teams that are in a position to be so desperate to make the playoffs that they would be willing to deal a major haul of their top tier talent for 2 months of Ohtani. The Ohtani sweepstakes will occur over the Winter Meetings when he cashes in for 8 years, $440 Million from whoever will bankrupt their team.
Ohtani is going to sign where he wants to play. Simple as that. Money isn’t going to be a deciding factor. Why?
– he’ll make a billion++ in endorsements
– he doesn’t have an ego that needs stroking by having ‘the richest contract in mlb history’ like some other players might.
– if he cared about $$, he’d have waited til he wasn’t an intl amateur (25) before coming to mlb when he could’ve signed as a free agent with no salary restrictions.
– he’s stated he wants to win and play for a WS above all else, but location is still important to him and his family.
You don’t think he wants to play for the Giants or Mariners?
I am sure the Angels have asked him where he wants to be traded to. The Angels should and would be very accommodating as long as its not the Dodgers.
This is a good point because his endorsement deals unlike many other MLB players will mostly come from Japan. He can still make money here from NB and other companies, but baseball is so big in Japan and he is such a huge star. Years after Ichiro retired, he still is marketing tons of items. Ohtani is younger and benefits from the modern social media buzz which was unavailable in past generations.
They can’t “match” any offer, this isn’t like other sports where the retaining team can throw a franchise tag on him (NFL) or match the best offer out there (NBA). The only benefit you have is getting him used to his new teammates, selling him on your city, fans, organization, potentially being the first team to show him playoff baseball in the MLB, and getting from the deadline until 5 days after the season ends to negotiate with him directly without other teams being able to court him.
I agree he’ll be testing free agency because I don’t think he’ll want to re-sign with the team whom he finishes the season because he’s not going back to the Angels and any acquiring team will be gutting their farm and indirectly their future window of competitiveness to get him. The reason I know he’s not signing with the Angels is they feel their best chance to retain him is going to the playoffs in 2023, but if the next 10 games determine whether you keep or trade your best player because of his ability to be re-signed then you already are incapable of proving a winning culture. Another reason I don’t think he’ll want to re-sign without testing free agency is because of the pressure he will get from the players union and his agency to at least test the market. I do believe acquiring a player at the deadline does offer the potential for increasing their desire to stay with the team in many cases. The Mariners have retained many players who otherwise never would’ve signed with Seattle, but fell in love with the city, the ballpark, the fans, their teammates, and/or the organization. In this case, I think Ohtani knows exactly what Seattle has to offer him and his trade cost during the season would work against him wanting to stay with that team regardless of who gets him at the deadline.
Your comment made me think of something else that goes with what you said. If a team is so desperate to acquire Ohtani at the deadline, then their active roster probably isn’t setup for sustained success and gutting their farm system to acquire Ohtani would double-down on a lack of supporting talent. So literally any acquiring team is not only trading their future for Ohtani, but they are all but assuring he won’t sign with them in the offseason either when given the choice of where to play.
Have to pay a lot to get him
Really not true. He’ll bring about the same return that the Orioles got for Machado, maybe a little more. He’s a free agent this winter and no team is going to pay much for a two month rental.
Not so sure about that just because ohtani is a fat better player than machado was. I could see a team giving one legitimate top prospect if they truly feel he’s the final piece to potentially win a WS.
You guys are completely delusional on prospects and how teams value them. Ohtani is the difference between not making the playoffs and winning it all. Any team will be willing to give up a lot for 2 months of him.
I’d agree with that. One good prospect is far, far less than what Soto brought back to the Nats
Agree… especially because of teams budding against each other. minimum return would be 2 top 100 type prospects and an additional org top 10/20 or young/controllable ML regular
Not even mentioning that LAA will want an overpay already knowing that by keeping him, they’ll gain 1 comp pick when he turns down a QO. So by trading him, they’re already losing one future comp pick. (And they’ve done well with comp picks: Trout – from Teixeira).
But Soto had 2 extra years. Divide Soto haul by 2.5 and that’s what you get. 1 top 50 player, and 1 team top 10
@Little – How do you figure that? Ohtani has never even made the playoffs, so how can you claim he is any type of difference in winning it all? All he has really proven in his time in MLB is that he can put up great stats on losing teams.
Lol.. it’s going to take more than one top prospect. Arte is looking at this also from the perspective that he might be trading babe Ruth so you need to get at least a Mickey Mantle and Sandy Koufax in return. You don’t want to be the guy who traded babe Ruth and you got a couple more Taylor Ward’s. No they have to be HOF for future HOFs. Otherwise what’s the point we already have a bunch of Taylor Ward’s in the minors.
Whatever team that wants him will have to blow them away with the offer, rental or not.
Bawhahahahaha! Ohtani is both a front starting pitcher AND a difference maker with a bat. He upgrades two positions in one transaction. For just a top 50 prospect? That’s nuts! The Angels could do that with the draft pick and get the fans in the gates to watch him while they still have him.
You’re getting an ace AND a middle-of-the-order bat in one player for the stretch run. The cost will be more than that.
I think 2 top 100 prospects may get the deal done for a few months. Angel fans wouldn’t be thrilled with that return, but it is a lot for 2 months of one player, and the Angels could potentially sign Ohtani right back.
“You’re getting an ace AND a middle-of-the-order bat in one player for the stretch run. The cost will be more than that.”
I agree with emphasizing Ohtani’s importance, but I think it’s fair to mention that Ohtani cannot play the field. So teams with a logjam at DH may have more trouble finding a fit,
Respectfully, what team with a DH logjam can’t afford to upgrade? Looking at the rest of the league, most are getting min production from DHs, outside perhaps LAD JD Martinez. I get there’d be some lineup creativity needed, but we’re talking a .300 hitter leading MLB in HRs — and a frontline starter. If there’s a FO hesitating pulling the trigger because of a 2.5-WAR DH (Ohtani is on pace for a 12-WAR season), and in need of frontline pitching (everyone is in need) — they should draft their resignation letter.
To clarify here, I’m talking specifically about the rental scenario. Teams like the Yankees and Phillies may have to leverage the DH position for guys like Judge and Harper due to injury. Would trading the farm for 2 months of Ohtani make sense if it hurts other star players? Longterm of course you make it work. Ohtani is special.
That was also their last good draft pick, the rest have been mid at best. It’s also worth noting that they won’t be picking anywhere near the same spot in the draft.
This is the key here. Most teams didn’t go into the season with a set DH, there are a few teams that fall under that category, but many have chosen to remain fluid. For teams that depend on the DH to keep players fresh, it’s not a straight upgrade of talent over the worst player on the team, it’ll mean displacing a guy who was already good enough to stay in the majors as a bat only player or you are forcing other players to not get as much rest during the season, which could have a day-to-day effect on their performance as well as how much they have in the tank during the playoffs.
He’s 2 players in 1. One of the best hitters and pitchers in baseball. He’s going to bring back a lot more than what machado went for. Also machado was likely viewed as a rental, any team that trades for ohtani is doing so in the hopes that they can sway him into staying. So he will go for a LOT if he’s traded. 3 top 100 prospects plus likely a few established young guys in the majors. Easily.
No way he brings back three top 100 for 2 months. Ill take that bet!
Well, if the Yankees get him we’ll never know because they only have two top 100 prospects (Dominguez and Wells).
“any team that trades for ohtani is doing so in the hopes that they can sway him into staying.”
Again, I don’t think this is true. Ohtani is viewed as a guy who is 100% testing free agency. So I don’t think the Angels will get the giant return many people think. 2 top 100 prospects seem like the ask. That’s still a lot for 2 months of a player, even one as good as Ohtani.
I’d be all over that trade offer if I was the Yankees and had busted prospects with too much hype that I could offer the Angels. The Mariners on the other hand should wait, as they would regret it because their farm system doesn’t produce fertilizer.
Unless he goes to the Red Sox where Rafaela, Yorke, and Bleis would all be Top 100 rated MILB players and look like high bust prospects. However, their lineup is already heavily left-handed and there is no way he re-signs in Boston only to add 8-10 hours round trip on to his return visits to Japan for the next decade. Also to your point, I would rather an excellent Top 100 prospect than three guys at the bottom of the Top 100 in most cases. Really Boston doesn’t have anyone except Roman Anthony and Marcelo Mayer who should even be in the Top 100 lists. I don’t feel Mayer should even be in the Top 75 though and given the choice, I’d have more confidence in Anthony than Mayer.
You’re getting an incredible hitter AND an incredible pitcher. Seems like you’d get a lot more to me.
Look at what the Padres got for Soto….
Then realize that they had him for 2-1/2 years at reasonable salary.
Don’t compare Soto to ohtani lmao
Don’t compare 2-1/2 years of having a players rights to 2 months.
That’s not lmao. To do so is pathetic, dumb, and to even bring it up in that context means the writer has no sense of perspective or maturity.
For some teams he could be the player that gets them into the World Series. I say don’t be shocked if the Angels get the top 4 prospects in someone’s farm. Owners dump an insane amount of money at players, why wouldn’t they do the same for Ohtani. Especially if they already have the positions filled that those prospects would take.
Then they don’t get Ohtani. I am just saying, if I am the Angels why do I give him up for 1 top prospect when I can get it the following year as a comp pick. He won’t be free, 2 months or not.
” I say don’t be shocked if the Angels get the top 4 prospects in someone’s farm.”
Please.
haighwiser;
I love coming on here when click bait like this shows.
Let’s put a number to it – if the teams farm system is even in the upper half of farm systems, their top 4 prospects have cost them somewhere between $5om and $100m over a number of years. The are obvious costs such as flying and housing scouts around the world, buying computers and video equipment of all people doing analyzing, paying those skilled people salaries. Subsidizing minor league teams in the farm system that all lose money, Paying minor league managers and coaching staffs salaries to work with the kids – as well as roving instructors they come in to help them – as well as their housing costs. And most of what turns out to be top players in a teams farm system were given multi-million dollar bonuses to sign.
The teams on the rights to those players for 6 years. Truth be told, most of them will not be great p[layers – a team counts the ones that work out. They have them for 6 years at what is usually a reasonable cost.
Say a team like the Rays do this. There’s a slim chance Ohtani will resign with them after the season (or any other team that would trade for him). Even if they win the WS in 2023, their future is now going to take at least 2 years of work to get their farm system up to speed. In the meantime their roster is going to suffer.
–
This is like the kids that come on here and believe that:
Gross Revenues – Players Salaries = Money In The Owners Pockets.
(Much of which they get from reading the articles here.)
There are tremendous fixed costs just to run an MLB franchise each year.
That’s not even wishful thinking that would be grand theft larceny.
Because the odds of the draft pick developing to the level of an already established top prospect are relatively low
@Samuel The Mariners Top 100 prospects: C Harry Ford ($4.37M), SS Cole Young ($3.3M), OF Gabriel Gonzalez ($1.3M), and SP Bryan Woo ($318K) before he lost rookie status were together less than $10M for the Mariners to acquire, there is no way they have spent more that $5M on their development. All the things you listed like the computers and coaches are shared by all 150+ prospects evenly. As for personal equipment, most of that is covered by endorsements or the player personally pays for those things. $50M is more what you would expect from a horribly run organization who constantly picks Top 5-10 in the draft annually, but $100M is impossible. Even if you took the Top pick every draft you’d only be all-in for about $35M on those five guys and you said the top 4 which means less than $30M.
Who can say where supply and demand will take us at the end of the month?
I can tell you where it won’t take you. No team is so desperate for him that they will overpay to the point of hurting their future. First, getting to the playoffs doesn’t guarantee a championship and no single player is going to change that, even as good as Ohtani is right now. Second, knowing that a championship isn’t guaranteed, nobody is going to risk years of mediocrity by carving up their farm system to increase their playoff chances by 5% maybe? Third, trading any prospects without at least entertaining the idea of extending Shohei after the season would be crazy. Fourth, Ohtani is not going to pick a team solely based on money, he wants to win, that’s why he won’t re-sign with the Angels and gutting your farm system is not going to give him confidence that you are team intent on continuing to win for the next decade.
All those scenarios have transpired and will again in a couple weeks.
Machado was probably half of Ohtani’s current value, and the deal they made at the time was regarded as weak. Time has backed that up as Pop, Valera, Kremer, Diaz and Bannon haven’t been great, to be kind. They do still have Kremer five years on, who has a nearly 5.00 ERA and matching FIP.
My point is not to knock the return, but it highlights if a team is trading a star they need to focus on higher-level prospects. Shoot for quality, not quantity; otherwise, there’s little reason to make the deal. Moreno would never ok a deal with that type of return. Teams know that, so if they want Ohtani, they’ll need to put top prospects in the package. That’s the message the Angels basically saying. You can call us, but be ready to talk top prospects.
But the difference is that you are adding an elite pitcher and an elite hitter rental in one trade. It would be like getting a much better versions of Teoscar Hernandez (but left-hand hitting) and Lucas Giolito.
As a Mariners fan, I hope they don’t trade him. That would be stupid to not trade him which is the Angel way
Josh Lowe, Brandow Lowe, Taj Bradley and Mason Montgomery for Ohtani. Tampa wins the World Series and Ohtani comes back to the West coast next year for $700 million!
You must be an Angels’ fan here. That is way way way too much for 2 months. Just trade for Giolito and a bat for much cheaper and you get the same production.
Only one team, once a year gets to win the World Series. What owner wouldn’t go all in for a chance like that?
One who wants to sustain a dynasty? See: Astros
Yeah, by cheating. Let alone the fact that their roster is getting old and they have next to nothing for supporting cast around Alvarez and Tucker. Altuve is due to decline sooner than later, Bregman already is declining, and the rest of the team is average role players. Sure they have Framber Valdez, then a bunch of broken pitchers, the trademark of Dusty Baker. If Baker could ruin pitching careers as a hitter the way he does as a manager, he’d be in the Hall of Fame!
Only one team, once a year gets to win the World Series. What owner wouldn’t go all in for a chance like that?
==========================
You are mixing two completely different mathematical concepts.
1-The first is winning the WS, which is worth a whole lot.
2-The second is getting a 1 in 16 chance of winning a WS, which is worth a whole lot less.
bingo, degrom
We’re calling the Astros a dynasty? Come on now.
I’m not saying I like them, but the Astros and Dodgers (more so) have consistently found ways to win.
The Astros had no one challenging them in that weak division for years. Thankfully the Rangers and Mariners are here now. The Astros tanked for the better part of a decade. Now the young talent they developed is paying off big time along with some nice FA signings, but they need to win a lot more for me to consider the word dynasty.
Betts reeled in two top 100 prospects. I wouldn’t want to pay that price either but reno has a good idea how much Ohtani will cost. Two top prospect with company seems like what it will cost at minimum.
Jon Daniel’s tried this with Yu Darvish (not as good, obviously), and he was stuck with 1 top 100 guy in Calhoun. It often backfires, and as an MLB fan instead of an MiLB fan, I hope those greedy teams do get screwed over for being ridiculous in their asks. They may end up having given him a 25 MM arbitration raise for nothing, as they would get a comp pick for him either way.
Betts was traded in February, the Dodgers had him for an entire season.
@Sam. I forgot that. I keep thinking he was traded at the deadline. Not the first time I’ve been reminded of this. My bad
Dodgers had to trade those young guys because they had to take on Price’s $48 million.
That was also a different time and it was at least possible that he would re-sign with the Dodgers. Most of the teams that have the money, the trade chips, and the desire to add at the deadline are not going to be in the discussion for him signing as a free agent. The only teams he’s going to even consider would be the Mariners, the Padres, the Dodgers, and the Giants. The Dodgers are the crosstown rival, the Padres don’t have the prospects, the Giants don’t have the prospects, and the Mariners are in the division.
So you think their starting 2B & RF, starting pitcher and their top pitching prospect should be traded for a two month rental? That phone call to Tampa Bay will be a huge NO and. dial tone
I’d just block the Angels’ phone number and wish them several decades of losing baseball at that point.
Brandon Lowe is about an 0-10 stretch away from being DFA’d and its a reach at this point to call him their starting 2B. Angels aren’t going to give Ohtani away without getting quality, big league ready players back in return
DFA’ing Lowe lol ok.
Tampa be like we fleece you, not the other way around.
@Bill. He didn’t think they SHOULD be traded for Ohtani. He could simply be predicting that an overpay is coming. While my comparison with Betts was wrong, Ohtani could still potentially draw the best rental package ever paid out by a baseball team.
@degrom Texas ranger if anything it’s not nearly enough for ohtani. You sound delusional
You ARE delusional. Good luck finishing in 4th place with a guy you will lose. Trout’s career is over anyways.
you are a troll!
What do you expect, he literally created a user name based on a guy who will spend more time on DL than on the active roster. Anybody who would troll themselves with that name probably wouldn’t hesitate doing to others as well.
Tampa will not trade for Ohtani because they can’t afford to sign him. Tampa doesn’t stay in contention by mortgaging the future for two months which may or may not bring a championship.
As for Tampa not being able to afford signing Ohtani, I’ll say this: I can “afford” to buy Starbucks’ coffee, like many of us, but it’s out of my price range. The same can be said about buying season tickets. Of course, I could do that if I actually lived in Texas (I don’t), but I’d rather save the gas and use my free MLB.TV subscription and use Rojadirecta.watch or mlb66.ir, etc. for the blacked out games. That way, I can fast forward every half inning Martin Perez pitches. Affordability is not the same as willingness to spend. That 60MM a year can go to 3 or 4 above average guys to hedge the risk.
Using T-Mobile huh? That’s the only way to get it free! Hopefully your pitchers have as many tells on the mound as you do on the computer.
Signed,
The Mariners
I think the Rays make sense but your return isn’t the right package. The Rays aren’t giving up 3 controllable players from their current roster and future core for half a season of Ohtani. The deal doesn’t make sense if their weakening the current roster. It will take a haul to get Ohtani for sure but it will be prospects.
The Padres gave up 3 FV 55 hitters and a 2 FV 50 pitchers for 2.5 years of Soto. I could see Ohtani the hitter costing a FV 55 and FV 50 prospect. Ohtani the pitcher would be similar. I could see a deal with the Rays being Carson Williams, Curtis Mead, Besabe and Montgomery as the main pieces. That would be 2 FV 55 and 2 FV 50 prospects. That’s 4 of the top 6 prospects from a good Rays farm. I could also see a bullpen arm added from the Angels and a lower level prospect or 2 from the Rays or maybe back of the roster MLB guys like Brujan or Ramirez getting added to round it out.
That’s a terrible take and you’re being intellectually dishonest or you wouldn’t have asked for Lowe in a package. It’s not like the Rays are trying to dump Brandon Lowe or get away from his team friendly contact. Especially considering the contract includes 2 team option years that the Rays can walk away from.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Absolutely agree!
Door 1: Alligators
Door 2: Lava
Door 3: Spikes
The Angels have to pick one of them. Either way the Angels are screwed
Go with door #1. At least you can eat the gators.
Door 1: Nevin
Door 2: Rendon
Door 3: Moreno
Let’s just give the Angelos family another chance to mess something up
Great fit on the O’s or Astros.
O’s can put a package together.
Still have a great prospect pool after giving them 4 or 5 players.
Astros most likely don’t have enough to give up for him.
The Orioles might, but do they part with their top assets for a guy who probably won’t sign with an east coast team?
You’d need the A’s and Pirates too.
His list when he came from Japan, was angels, dodgers, giants, padres, mariners. Unless you do it for a rental probably not a chance he resigns. I’m starting to think he goes to the dodgers or giants in the off-season they didn’t have nl dh at the time
I think the Cubs were on the list. But now that the DH is everywhere, that opens up a few more teams.
When asked about the Cubs on that list last week Ohtani’s response was, “Don’t believe everything you hear.”
Os are a perfect fit because they have enough top end prospect capital to make this move without giving up their top top guys like Holiday or Grayson Rodriguez. I would only consider though if they are willing to at least put forth a competitive offer to keep him even if he doesn’t resign. Something like 3 backend of top 100 guys and 2 lottery picks. Then an offer of at least 10/450
As a angels fan wouldn’t mind that, he’s wants to play in certain cities would the orioles pull the trigger knowing he won’t resign.
I’ve heard him say multiple times how much he likes playing at Oriole Park so I think he would sign there with a big enough offer. He isn’t giving a city like Baltimore on the East a discount that’s for sure. Good division, good ballpark, and a team that should be competitive for at least next few seasons
Hope Orioles FO builds a roster similar to how the Braves do it. Long term deals galore and earnings are within a range. Looks like Atlanta intentionally avoids having one or 2 players on their roster with mega deals.
And I hope Orioles trade strategy coming up here in a few weeks places focus not just on quality but also players with playoff experience. Outside of Hicks , Os don’t have much of that.
Been forever since Os did an extension. They should be locking up a few guys now. The Braves have done a tremendous job at it
Delusions of grandeur, buddy! He may like playing there, but he chose to live in Seattle over the offseason twice, chose to play for the Angels for 5+ seasons, and still goes home to Japan which is already a long flight from the West Coast, he doesn’t love your park that much. If you believe that alone will make him forget about the extra three hour time difference and 5 hours of flying each way to get home to Japan, you should leave a tooth under your pillow, cookies by the fireplace, and see if the Easter bunny hid some eggs in the house that you haven’t found because you have one heck of an imagination!
Drinking and scrolling again huh
Great fit for everyone, I mean what team is so loaded they’re like, “nah we don’t need a 1.000 OPS hitter who can take the ball as a legit #2 every 5 starts!”
What would the Astros give? Dusty’s game worn underwear?
So what prospect with a strikeout issue do you see the Angels coveting in a return from the Orioles over whatever other prospects are available in return? The only really good prospects from Baltimore’s system would be off limits (Holliday and Rodriguez)
There is an argument that Ohtani can also hamstring your roster and may impose some formidable constraints: 1. He is your full time DH so you can’t use that slot to rest players or rotate folks in & out to sustain health. 2. He causes your rotation to stretch out to a 6-man which means one less reliever & the need to have a viable 6th starter and accompanying depth. 3. When or if he gets hurt you’re down two key roster spots that must be replaced.
Not sure how much those three things should factor into the final analysis or if it could tip the scales in any meaningful way. There aren’t too many people out there who are “anti-Shohei” but they use these reasons plus just the enormity of his future contract to argue against acquiring him.
What does Ohtani want?
What every player wants. Winning and money.
Supposedly, but keep in mind he picked the angels to play with trout his favorite mlb player
So he checked the favorite player box, now on to a perennial contender like the Dodgers.
He picked the Angels because he was obsessed with a Japanese manga (comic book) called “Major” about a two-way player who throws 102 mph, hits mammoth homeruns, and goes to Los Angeles to play in the major leagues. He’s older, wiser, and has perspective. It’s worth noting he has a serious relationship to consider and I don’t know much about her, but he was living in Seattle over two separate offseasons since they started dating. Either she likes spending the offseason in Seattle or she is from there. That’s not wild speculation it’s logic. If she was from New York, he probably would’ve spent time there over the offseason and if she was from Los Angeles, he would’ve just stayed in Southern California.
He complimented the fans in Seattle for their general passion, he got them chanting for him to come to Seattle, he lived in the area during two offseasons, his childhood idol is actively involved in the team and recruiting him, he loves the city, one of the best players under 25 years old is guaranteed to be on the Mariners for the rest of his career and thru Julio’s prime years, the roster is young, talented, and with many top prospects coming up through the system over the next few years who will be on the team through the end of an extension. Seattle is a great ballpark for his power, left-handed swing, and pitching. Most importantly, Dipoto went out of his way to make sure that Julio got a fair deal and Ohtani will be coming off the books only a couple years after Julio’s contract increases.
For those saying Ohtani could get a billion dollar deal, it’s ridiculous. He won’t have the leverage based on his list of demands including geography, talent, etc. Also, he only has 5-6 prime years left and the real indicator is the fact that a great DH isn’t going to get more than $25M/season and a #2 starter like him would only get about $25M/season, Together that’s $50M x 12 seasons and the most he’ll get is $600M. My guess is that on a deal that long there’s going to be a discount for such a long pact and he’ll probably want an opt out after 5 years to ensure the team stays competitive. So my guess would be that he gets $540M/12 years. The Mariners could afford $45M/season. If Ohtani only wants a 10 year deal it might be a higher annual value at $50M x 10 years for $500M. Anything more than that is really just wild speculation at best.
Even Trout was putting up more WAR as a hitter than Ohtani both ways and signed his extension at a younger age, but only got $426M, I can’t see anybody signing a 29 year old to deal over $500-550M. Juan Soto when everyone thought he was the second coming was laughed at for $600M over a longer time and cover more of his prime years.
Hes better than a number 2 sp when healthy. Nearly won the CY last year and was doing great again this year until the fingernail issues. He would command ace money. Not sure about the DH because we haven’t seen one of his caliber in his prime reach the market yet. I agree though that i don’t see a team paying $60M a year or going more than $600M
He wanted to win, yet knowingly signed up for the Angels, whose issues don’t need to be rehashed.
I question the whole all I want is to win routine.
Also question he’s wants the biggest offer, he has the opportunity to pick any team, the offers will be roughly the same.
For the entire Royals
Would Shohei have to pull a Bugs Bunny and play every position?
He’d have to work the concessions too.
This may be way off, but here is an idea: Duran, Owen White, and Dustin Harris for Ohtani… maybe throw on Luisangel Acuna if needed. Those would be 2 or 3 current top 100 prospects and 1 former top 100 guy who is doing well (just don’t ask about his swing decisions or walk to strikeout ratio). Adolis is here, and Carter can play outfield next year for Duran anyways. They can get a stopgap for a year or two until Langford breaks all of Josh Jung’s Rangers’ rookie records and lives up to that Vanderbilt coach’s comparison to Mike Trout (realistically, probably a 90th or 95th percentile outcome). Who needs Trout at 37 million when you can just draft him and hope for the best case scenario?
Troll!
If I’m trading ohtani I’m telling teams they have to take Rendon. He is due 38 million each of the next three seasons. Let’s not worry about the return so much but let’s clear the books. Maybe get one or two blue chip prospects
There is some logic to your suggestion if the Angels are cash starved and want to position themselves to make a run at Ohtani or other free agents this winter. Actually, though, I don’t see the angels doing this because they would absolutely get nothing back in this deal if Rendón is a part of it.
Yeah, I don’t see any team absorbing $114M of Rendon’s contract for two months of Ohtani plus his remaining salary. He’s good but not that good.
No one is going to do that, especially taking on $38 million a year the next three years to get 2 months of anyone.
Mets would
Actually a good idea if you attach rendon to the trade, and get really nothing in return. I would prefer to sign him now, give him a blank check. If he doesn’t sign it get rid of rendon/ohtani to set up the team for next year. Rendon gets hurt every 5 days, and that’s probably the only way to get rid of him
No one is taken Rendon even if he wasn’t hurt every other week, unless the Angels take back Scherzer and Lindor from the Mets lol, so Ohtani and Rendon for Scherzer and Lindor, doesn’t make sense but the Angels aren’t getting rid of Rendon unless they take back a back contract too. unless the Yankees trade them Stanton ,Donaldson and a couple of prospects for Ohtani and Rendon.
Bad contract back I meant lol
Agree it’s a pipe dream, someone with cap space might bite. The return would be a bag of balls. It definitely would help them reset, and be able to sign a ace in the off-season
The Angels need talent, not money. That’s would be a very bad trade for the Angels. Down right awful.
If he’s leaving I would do it to get rid of rendon
Then what? Buy more free agents that will turn into Rendon or Josh Hamilton or CJ Wilson or Albert Pujols?
Yeah. Money can be wasted anyways. They would just give Urias 35 million instead of Rendon.
Exactly. They’ll just take the money and waste it somewhere else and get NOTHING back for Ohtani.
After those two, the Angels biggest contract is 13 million for Anderson. Which is mote wasted money.
Yeah, rendon contract was on eppler’s tenure, but most likely right. I just think the package wouldn’t be very big for ohtani, plus prospects is a crap shoot as well
I can see the Giants in on this route
Good idea but Rendon’s got a no-trade clause.
Damn overlooked that
It would be to a contender if Rebdon is traded.
Let’s do a hypothetical. Dodgers offer say Dustin May Gavin Lux for ohtani and rendon. Dodgers then flip Rendon eating say half. The 114 million owed over next 3 years. 57 million over three years isn’t bad. Or attach a prospect to a team to take all of Rendon. Hell maybe he goes back to DC. I don’t think the return is going to be super great for Ohtani anyways so I’m thinking outside the box. You lose that 38 million you could comfortably offer Ohtani a blank check in the off-season.
I know May is hurt again but why would the Dodgers do this? I don’t think they’re trading hurt guys (selling low). Giving up way too much. for Ohtani, let alone taking on a terrible Rendon contract.
Dodgers then flip Rendon eating say half. The 114 million owed over next 3 years. 57 million over three years isn’t bad.
=========================
No one is trading for Rendon even for $57M/3. If he were a FA, would you offer him $57M/3? Rendon is impossible to attach. He is probably a negative $90M value.
The cost for 2 months of him won’t make sense for most teams.. the Angels will want a huge return and there’s next to no chance Ohtani resigns with a team he’s traded to without testing the market.
The only teams that make sense for a trade are serious WS contenders whose window of contention is running out. And really there isn’t any team that is up to those standards.
MLB GM Droolfest ‘23 is officially underway.
More like fan drool fest. Most GMs wouldn’t want to strip their farm for a couple months of Ohtani.
Unbelievable how badly the Angels mismanaged the team to make Trout and Ohtani’s contributions completely irrelevant in the big picture. They would be crazy not to trade him, no matter what they could get. That team is going no where.
Some GM/owner combo is contemplating selling off the entire AA team for him! Honestly, it will take a team willing to sign him long term and have the trade capital for the short term. I don’t know if you’re an owner, you just don’t wait until you can throw a boatload of money at him once he reaches free agency. Unless you feel like he’s the guy who puts you in the winner’s circle this year.
He’s not going to sign an extension. The Dodgers have a bunch of money coming off their books and it would serve him best if he at least took a bid from them during free agency. The bidding is going to be bananas.
Pretty much the same as how it started last year with Rizzo, realizing it would be ludicrous to hold on to Soto. Trout’s injury has to be a huge factor in this.
The price for Ohtani will be significantly less given that he has two fewer years of team control. This will make Preller, who is now even more desperate than he was a year ago, a player. He has the assets to make a deal. And those assets mean absolutely nothing to him because the chances he will be around to see his top prospects play for the Padres is quite unlikely.
Very important for Sho to continue to put up big numbers “second half” and stay healthy.
If he can Sho he’s a full season Cy candidate , hits +/- 50 , he’ll max his free agency $$
Every team should put anyone and everyone up for grabs for this kid there are no “untouchables” for player like him but that’s only if u get a long term deal in place
I see it completely opposite.
One player, even a superstar, doesn’t guarantee a ring. As evidenced by the Angels, who have at least two.
Furthermore, as much as I’d love to have him on my team, there is no way I’d want to pay him the franchise altering, half billion dollar, ten year contract he’s going to get. Just to watch him spend the second half of said contract DHing with a .237 BA.
The Angels already got the best value.
The Angels have never played a season where Ohtani and Trout were both healthy.
Well even if Ohtani, for example, isn’t healthy, you’ll notice a stunning lack of growth from his fellow pitchers.
It says to me he’s not much into helping his teammates get better, mentoring, etc. And maybe that’s not his job. But how many greats also made their teammates better, and got tons of credit for doing so?
I think we’ve heard you say this now, what? 20 times? everyone knows this…
A lot of his teammates throw sweepers now, and it’s not from the pitching coach
He also told the manager that Suarez was tipping his pitches
If the Braves, with Smoltz Maddux and Glavine, could only get one, and they had a plenty large enough window to get more, you’re right, there are no guarantees.
Not when you can win 87 games and get hot for two weeks.
Remember Texas signed the best shortstop in MLB history (one of 3 to have a 40-40 until Soriano, 1.000 OPS, .358 batting average, 10 WAR season, etc.). See where it got them. This time around, they had a better supporting cast and more of a willingness to spend. It only makes sense if your other positions are all average and you need a superstar. If you have 3 moderate gaps, spend on 3 different decent guys instead of 1 superstar. It helps more.
Lets make this simple. Cashman either gets him or we bring in someone who can get the job done!
Will they listen? Sure.
Will they get anything but a low ball offer for just two months? Highly unlikely.
Will they pull the trigger on that kind of offer? Only they know, but I would say unlikely.
Angels are Stupid to keep him he’s gone after the year.
Angles should let Ohtani’s agents talk to other teams. The trade return could be massive if a team knew it had at least a decent chance at keeping Ohtani off the open market
Exactly!
most sensible post.
I don’t think they’re allowed to do that due to tampering rules. The Angels, at the minimum, would need to have a trade framework in place before his agent can begin any preliminary extension talks.
Whatever team signs him, they should make him GM as well. That’s enticing lol.
He can do everything, he’s not human anyways.
Please Come To Boston Shohei. Don’t go to New York or LA
LOL, why the hell would he go from a 4th place team to a bottom dweller?
We’re only 2 games out of the wild card.
And would be in first place if they were in the AL Central with the record they have right now.
If they trade Ohtani, they should trade Trout as well. Give him a chance to get to the post-season.
They should trade both. They’ve wasted both careers to date. They could get a massive influx of young talent and become contenders as soon as next season if they spent wisely and got the right type of players back. There are absolutely teams out there that would trade for Trout even still, despite his injuries and contract.
It would be the smartest way for the Angels to reset and try to contend sooner than later.
Of course, they won’t do that. They won’t even trade Ohtani and will let him go for practically nothing over the winter.
You both know they can’t trade Trout, right?
Sure they can. He just has to waive his ntc.
Right. that’s the point. People say “trade Trout” like it’s the Angels’ decision. It’s not, it’s Trout’s.
Well duh, but don’t you think that if the Angels wave the white flag and trade Ohtani, then Trout might be more open to a trade? I do.
Exactly trout has a no trade clause, probably took less money to stay in Anaheim, he might waive it later in his career, but obviously he’s content to stay with the angels
Later in his career no one I’ll want him. He’s always been brittle. He’s expensive, and now he starting to age.
Agree he’s staying with the angels, just pointing out you can’t trade him, maybe later with the angels sending money to wherever he wants to go to chase a ring
Trout’s contract is the west coast version of the Stanton contract. They would have to send a lot of money to move Trout at this point.
Whoever think it is too much won’t ever see him in their team!
Just trade him already.
For any trade to happen, the acquiring team would need to sign him to an extension. Otherwise, two months isn’t going to be worth that much prospect capital. That makes a trade even more unlikely.In short, I would be shocked if he is moved.
Devil’s advocate here- some pseudo-contender (BAL? CIN? SEA? TOR? SD? MIA?) will want him BAD and submit a strong enough offer to obtain his rental services with an exclusive inside track on extension talks. Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise, and Shohei tips the scales for any thirsty contender.
Prospects are suspects until proven otherwise, and Shohei tips the scales for any thirsty contender.
===========================
Of course, which is why yo almost never star-for-star trades. It defeats the purpose of the trades.
He likes Boston. So that’s where he’s going. An extremely easy trade to make, they’ve got the right mix of players, sign him up and move on.
I wonder if we could get him without trading Mayer or Teel (If he signs in time). It would definitely require Yorke and Rafaela and maybe Anthony as well as a big leaguer
You can’t trade this year’s picks until next year, just FYI
Oh cool, I didn’t know that. Thanks!!!
the only way this makes sense for any team is if they’re able to negotiate a contract before the trade. otherwise the asking price will be way too high for the short period of time you will have him
He’s not going to sign an Extension, but any acquiring team will have exclusive rights to talk to him about it.
True but no extension will happen and someone will drastically overpay.
They will only move him if a team is willing to trade their entire farm, some ML players and more. Nobody is doing that for a few month rental.
Somebody always does.
There’s not really a good option for the Angels, and it goes way beyond the concept of a team being a buyer or seller. If you trade him, it’s highly unlikely you bring him back this offseason and you’re giving his new team a head start on trying to recruit him long term anyway. It would have to be a huge return to move him and risk giving up that chance. Teams would gladly move talent for two months of Ohtani, but would they give up enough to make it worth the risk?
If you keep him, you risk missing the playoffs and letting him walk for a draft pick. You have the rest of the season to market him and try convincing him to stay, but it only makes sense if you think you have a chance to keep him long term.
Still, I think if you feel there’s even a 10% chance of re-signing him, you don’t trade him. No one wants to be the one that traded Ohtani, and even if your return is better than a draft pick (which shouldn’t be tough), it’s probably more valuable to hold onto him and try convincing him to stay than it is to get a slightly better prospect or two and eliminate that possibility.
Ohtani has made it be known he doesn’t want to stay last year. The Angels are in the same position this year with Trout out. I’ll bet the under on 10%.
I agree and I think Ohtani is going elsewhere too based on what he’s said lately, but I doubt he’s the type to ever go public and specifically say he wants out. So if the Angels think they can convince him to stay, they’d be dumb to trade him no matter what. Obviously if they think he’s gone, they should trade him though.
Letting him walk for a draft pick would be terrible, but I still think it’s worse to trade him and move on if you think there’s any chance at all of keeping him. Trading him should only be an option if you’ve pretty much decided there’s no way he comes back.
Or… if I’m the Angels… convince Shohei that we’d love to welcome him back, this is just business, trade him for a really nice return, then re-sign him in the offseason with the acquired trade pieces being able to help his Angels.
Well you took the bait, didn’t you?
This was supposed to be in response to a different comment. No clue why it ended up here lol
Someone check on Arte Moreno…and tip-toe away quietly.
So what do you guys think his free agent deal will look like if he continues to produce and stay healthy? I used to think 500M but now I’m thinking it could go as high as 700M. Crazy, I know, but you’re effectively getting two topline players.
I think it will be lower than you expect. The down side of a two way player is if he goes on the IL, you lose both the arm and the bat and can only replace one on the roster, not both. I think 10/500 is about where he lands, which is too much, but crazy is the trend.
I think he’s going to ask for 12 years with the backend money deferred. He’s two years younger than Judge so any team signing him is getting two additional prime years.
I agree except Pitchers are more fragile. 10 gets him to 39, which is old for a starter. But again, crazy is the trend.
The city might riot
That’s a Monday in the City of Angels.
Anaheim
They aren’t in Los Angeles or LA County. They are in Anaheim, Orange County.
He is retroactively interrupting an old comment. Morosi and Verducci are clowns
I think the Giants have the most motivation to go after Ohtani. They know he is interested in the Dodgers and they could keep him off their roster for at least the rest of this season. They also have a legit chance of signing him long term if he likes the bay area. And the Angels would avoid the embarrassment of him playing cross-town for a supposed marketing rival.
The problems I see are lack of prospects,starting pitchers and infielders that the Angels likely ask for.
Harrison, Luciano, and Schmitt would be a pretty good haul.
Pretty soon, Arte Moreno will announce that he offered Ohtani $650 million over 10 years but the agent will say “we want the opportunity to get offers from other teams”.
That will surely secure his services come winter time so might as well trade him in the meantime aye ?
Are their past monster deals scaring them off? Rendon, Pujols, Hamilton, CJ Wilson didn’t turn out great and they’ve still got Trouts money on the books for a longtime. My hope is they extend him. So few guys play their careers for one team nowadays
All good points that those were four horrible contracts. But this is not the motivation for the Angels because Ohtani is such a one-of-a-kind talent. It is assumed that the Angels made offers but Ohtani’s agent will say “we are not listening to extension offers”.
I think someone has said that there have been no talks between the two sides for an extension.
I don’t know about an extension needing to be signed. A team would be acquiring two months of his service. Likewise, the Angels will be making a business decision based on whether a certain prospect hall is worth giving up two months of Ohtani.
What if the Marlins can help the Angels retool their starting rotation? Or if the Reds offered up their two best hitters still in the minors (Marte and CES), plus a pitcher like Chase Petty? The Reds don’t really have anywhere to play the hitters, and it would be a major boon for the club and the city to get Ohtani—even if it’s short-lived. And then the Angels would have some excellent building blocks.
It’s safe to start printing the pinstripe jersey
If the right offer is made, the Angels need to take it.
This is not a good team. They need at least 2 starters and the bullpen sinks.
If Rendon, Drury and Neto and Sandoval come back or pick it up, they have a chance, but with so may ifs. and with this pen, they’ll likely need to pull a trigger on a trade.
What do u consider a good enough return ? Hard to think they’ll get much more than smtg like Cortez, Pereira, Thorpe from yanks. Be hard to think someone will give a top notch future prospect for a 1/2 season of ohtani
It would have to have a headliner like a Miller of the Dodgers.
“This is one of the toughest decisions a baseball club has ever had to make…“ I mean… I dunno about that.
The Astros have one of the weakest farm systems in the league.
When you add that to the fact they are division rivals to the Angels, I just don’t see a trade for Ohtani taking place between these two teams.
I actually think the Giants are a great fit and have the prospects, but maybe a 3 team deal that spreads out the prospect hit makes sense:
Giants get Ohtani and Jake Meyers from Astros.
Astros get Alex Cobb and Mike Yastrzemski
Angels get:Pedro Leon, Jacob Melton, and Misael Tamarez from Astros
Carson Whisenhunt, Vaun Brown, and Aeverson Arteaga from Giants.
Giants get Ohtani and a truecCF w/ 4 years of control without giving up any of their top 3 prospects, or top prospect at any position.
Astros get a rental SP and balance the OF and lineup vs RH pitchers.
Angels get a 50 rated prospect, 3 50 rated prospects, and 2 45 rated prospects for Ohtani.
For the Angels it should read they get one 55, three 50, and two 45 prospects.
I like your proposal, Astrosfn… but surely the Halos could get better returns?? I suppose we shall see…
You may be right the ratings I posted are from mlb.com.
Using Fangraphs because with their big board you can see all prospects. I have no idea how many of each ratings there are at mlb.com.
There are 42 prospects rated 55 or higher
There are 125 prospects rated 50 or higher
There are 278 prospects rated 45 or higher.
So you are looking at
1 prospect in top 42
3 prospects between 43 and 125
2 prospects between 126-278
That’s a fairly good haul for a rental, even Ohtani.
Looking at Fangraphs rankings they are lower across the board.
I’m not sure which one is more accurate to how the Angels, Astros, and/or Giants value prospects.
Fangraphs prospect ratings sucks and has huge East Coast bias. I never trust them.
Blue Jays need a starting pitcher and a right handed bat. That’s it
If you’re suggesting the Jays wouldn’t be exponentially better with Ohtani. That’s nonsense
He’d immediately bump everyone down a rung in the rotation
He’d Bump Belt off the team and relegate Kirk to be the backup C (through no longer needing to cycle players through the DH spot)
He’s the only guy I’d be willing to trade Tiedemann and Barriera for.
I’m sure they at least get the conversation started
If Ohtani wants to be a global player. Coming to Toronto and Dominating in a 3rd country. Plus actually win something is a good way to cement a Legacy. Ohtani added to that roster is immediately a WS contender
MLB Network and ESPN just blew their collective loads. They’ve wanted this for soooo long.
If Ohtani was just a pitcher, he’d be the top rental pitcher on the market.
If he was just a hitter, he’d be the top rental bat on the market.
Another consideration is that any team that acquired him would make a ton of money on significantly increased attendance and ancillary revenue streams.
Plus, he makes any team a significantly better post season team….which adds to the revenue the farther into the playoffs the team goes.
As an example, a team like Minnesota or Cleveland could punch its ticket to the playoffs, while significantly jacking its attendance. Then it would find itself one of the favorites, instead of merely a hopeful. Its quite possible that either could make so much money that jumping into the FA market next winter would be a legit possibility…something that, esp Cleveland, only dreams about.
I’m not suggesting its a good idea, only that there are some significant off the field considerations.
His salary is 30 million this year. If you think he is somehow worth 50-60 million, he is not nearly as valuable as you would think. Now, if the Angels pay his salary, maybe he is worth a third of 50 or 60 MM – the salary left.
Continuous absurdity that is the modern game and business of baseball. A player so talented that he’s basically unaffordable, assuming that the prospective owner/GM is rational.
Weakest click-bait article I have ever seen on this site!
This is coming from Jon Morosi of MLB Network. Are you forgetting what website you’re on?
Click – check
Comment – check
Got em
ATLLLLLLLLL?
If I were to offer anything for Ohtani, at MOST it would be Kyle Wright, Vaughn Grissom and Jared Shuster. I don’t see Atlanta signing him as a free agent and I can’t see paying more for just two months when you can’t even give him a qualifying offer if you traded for him.
In all honesty I just can’t see Atlanta trading for him, when others would probably offer more.
ATLOL
I’m not talking about this year, but any team that signs him is going to be crippled financially for a long time like we’ve never seen. Sounds prefect for the Angels, right?
Its a double edged sword. he wants to win, but that salary will hurt said team long term. His cost can only be absorbed by the teams that don’t care about the luxury tax.
You’re trading for a top of the rotation pitcher and you’re also trading for a middle of the order bat. At the same time, you have just these last few months with him and then he’s gone. The most similar trade, to me, is Turner and Scherzer. Although, Turner still had one year. Dodgers gave up their #1 and #2? Prospects. I think that’s the comp, even with the difference in control. The euphoria of getting the best player in MLB might warrant even the team’s best two prospects for just a postseason run of a lifetime.
You have to take into account every orgs top two prospects aren’t the same. Dodgers gave up two pretty good ones but neither were true elite prospects.
Baltimore, I need to hear from you!
It will be horrible pr but they have to seriously consider trading him if they haven’t already decided to. Probably will bring the best haul of any rental player ever.
they shouldn’t trade ohtani. it’s not like they’re going to do anything with the prospects. they’re the angels
What should happen: We trade Ohtani for a return that can actually make a difference into the future. Then we use that to sell a long term deal to Ohtani this winter. Effectively, Ohtani would be credited for building the Angels into a team he would want to play for long term.
What probably will happen: Moreno’s trade expectations will be ridiculous, we keep Ohtani and end the season at 78-84, and he signs elsewhere this winter. Then, Moreno dumps the team on the buyer he already has waiting in the wings from last winter. The Angels get nothing. I become a Padres fan.
Dodgers have the most prospects besides the Orioles. Orioles won’t pay him.
Go get creative Dombrowski
they should trade him to the Mexican League in return for the Angels joining the Mexican League. this would give the Angels a real shot at .500, and maybe even start dreaming about a wildcard spot
Angels get: Betts, Urias, Taylor
Dodgers get: Ohtani.
Who says no?
Dodgers
0% chance they trade years of Mookie for 2 months of Shohei
Why is nobody considering the possibility of the Angels trading Ohtani and also trying to resign him in the offseason. Both can happen. When Yanks were out of the race in 2016, they traded Aroldis Chapman to the Cubs for Gleyber Torres, then resigned Chapman that winter. That’s what Angels should try to do here. Get as much as you can and tell Ohtani you want him back with a better chance to win in 2024.
Think this is actually the best option.
Great post!
If Ohtani hits free agency, you can guarantee he’s not re-signing with the Angels.
Padres Get:
Ohtani
Angles Get:
Soto
Snell
Top 2 Prospects:
Padres would never do that. Snells is a better pitcher than Ohtani and soto is as good of a hitter that has another year of control. That’s before even counting the additional prospects. If Soto was a free agent at the end of the year then the at two for one might make some sense but the angles wouldn’t do it because snell would be lost at the end of the season.
Lol
My expectation is the Angels set the asking price too high and wind up with a supplementary draft pick when Ohtani leaves.
The Moreno way….
NYY Get
Ohtani
Rendon
Angels Get
Stanton
Volpe
Donaldson
Severino
Angles have already hung up.
Wouldn’t even happen in MLB the Show, despite the game’s stupid trade system..
Stanton and Donaldson are dumps. Rendon is just 1 guy, and you would be assuming Rendon’s contract is so bad that it more than negates Ohtani’s value. A similar proposal would probably be Martin Perez, Marcus Semien, and Luisangel Acuna for Ohtani and Rendon (maybe?). Those are deals the Angels would never accept. The Nats didn’t even throw in Corbin since it would lower their returns. What makes you think they trade Ohtani to take on 2 bad contracts and and dump 1 bad contract?
Otani for Soto swap. Why? Soto has another year and may recoup value lost. Superstar for superstar
People keep bringing this up but padres aren’t trading Soto for 2 months of Ohtani especially when they are on the outside looking in. They need to consider 2024 and much as 2023
I don’t see him getting traded to the dodgers because of the dislike the owner has for seeing him playing across town. He may sign there anyways but I don’t think he gets traded there. This may even make it difficult for the padres as well but not to the extreme as the dodgers. At very least the dodgers would have to offer much more then any other team.
Team control… someone last year was suggesting Acuna Jr. for Soto, and the same applies here. 1.4 years of Soto are worth way way more than 0.4 years of Ohtani, especially after the supposed injury to Ohtani yesterday.
They should get what they can for him. He would be crazy to resign with a team that has proven they have no idea how to build a winner.
Until recently I felt strongly that the PR hit would be too great and the Angels shouldn’t keep him. But now I’ve decided the massive haul that could be had coupled with the likely outcome of NOT being a playoff team they should 100% cash in now.
They could try to save face by saying (and then at least legitimately follow through even if winning team will rule them out) say they are still going to do everything they can to bring him back next year but that the unique opportunity to acquire generational talent such as (Prospect A, B and C or whatever) all at once when given injuries etc we felt we just didn’t have a chance to overcome the deficit to make the playoffs.
I just think organizationally trading him could bring back 1 or 2 prospects that could legitimately alter the course of the franchise and that’s just too much to pass up vs only a draft pick if (when) he leaves in FA
Dodgers should NOT trade for Ohtani – price would be too high. Dodgers already have an All Star DH in Martinez so trading for a one dimensional Ohtani would be too much especially if you have to take Rendon. Let all the trade rumors fail now and get involved in a bidding war fro him to the end of the season and save your prospects for the future.
Something being lost in all this is the fact that this will be a business merger between Ohtani and the new team. Ohtani’s merchadiising value is unprecidented. Merging Ohtani with one of the two main global brands would be a win for either team and for Ohtani. No other teams have the global reach of the Yankees and the Dodgers. Ohtani becomes immediately more valuable for endorsements if he signs with either team. Both teams can afford him. It will be a win on and off the field for either team to sign Ohtani.
Only valid if Ohtani gets to the WS with one of the teams.
Ohtani is easily the most well-known athlete in the world. The WBC was his showcase.
Nothing MLB wants more is to have him in the playoffs and right through the WS. Imagine the money they’d bring in selling the rights to televise those games to countries around the world. He could be playing for the Minnesota Twins and the world would be watching.
I’m not expecting Ohtani to be moved. It will be typical if the Angels demand too much and wing up with a supplemental draft pick. I do think the Dodgers have the inside track to sign him long term. They are the best positioned of the teams that can afford him.
I realize the Yankees have a $100 million Stanton problem if they sign Ohtani.
IF they sign Ohtani, it’s not the worst problem they have. they can each take turns at DH while the other is having a day of rest and Stanton can play some OF when Ohtani is pitching – Stanton also missed 50 games so far this year, 52 last year, 23 in 2021, 37 of the 60 games in 2020, 139 in 2019 and 144 in 2018, Ohtani would get plenty of playing time and the Marlins are kicking in $30 million towards that “problem”..
After this year, Stanton is owed $118 million plus the $10 million buyout for the 2028 season. I assume that option in 2028 will be turned down. That leaves Miami on the hook for $20 million for the 2026 and 2027 season.
His next contract will smash all contract records. He could easily get 60 mil a year, since he is essence two players.
Cardinals
The Cardinals aren’t a $500 to $600 million dollar contract.
I prefer to get my news from Drip
What’s the difference between “listening to offers” and “shopping him around” in the case of a player of his caliber?
Incoming vs. Outgoing phone calls
Yeah I guess the Angels are now calling teams asking if they’ve heard about this Ohtani guy.
Shock the baseball world and him to Oakland for the entire team…then that team moves to Vegas….a new team rises from the Ashes……The Oakland Ohtanis.
The Shohaiwards!
I’d guess the offers will be very underwhelming for the Angels. Ohtani doesn’t seem like the extension-signing type. He’s going to the open market period, and if I had to guess I’d imagine he already knows which teams he’ll even consider (probably Yankees and Dodgers, full stop. Maybe Giants.). And great as he is, you don’t sell your entire farm for a couple months and one playoff run, no matter who you are. Plus teams know the Angels are in a bind and will get next to nothing if they let him go. So the offers will be low.
I saw an article about a team like the Rays making a trade just to get him as a rental and while I understand banners fly forever I think it’s too big of a gamble for basically no shot at resigning him. The Giants, Rangers and Yankees make the most sense imo due to the few extra months of Ohtani they might be able to woo him then sign him (the Dodgers imo are the favorite and have the best chance of outright signing him so idk if the two months is really worth the cost).
2016 Cubs had NO CHANCE at re-signing Alroldis Chapman but gave away some of their prospects for a rental and won the World Series, which they wouldn’t have without him.
That’s why I do understand the logic but a team like the Rays live off of their top prospects to succeed
whose definition of “succeed”? Yankees under George: World Championship or Bust… or Yankees under Hal: make a profit