The Cardinals are perhaps the most intriguing seller of this trade deadline. The preseason favorite for the NL Central expected to build upon a 93-win campaign in 2022, the team has failed to live up to expectations with a brutal 46-60 record that leaves them in last place in the division and ahead of only the Rockies and Nationals in the NL. With the club’s eyes turned toward the future, speculation has run rampant regarding many of the club’s interesting pieces, both those who are set to hit free agency after the season and those who are under team control longer-term.
Despite their status as the league’s premiere seller, the Cardinals have largely been quiet to this point with the trade deadline just over 48 hours away. While reports earlier in the week hinted at the possibility of a blockbuster involving third baseman Nolan Arenado, president of baseball operations John Mozeliak firmly shut those rumors down yesterday. While Arenado may not be on the move, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch recently discussed a bevy of other rumors regarding the club’s options ahead of the trade deadline.
Most clearly positioned to move over the next two days are the club’s duo of mid-rotation rental starters: left-hander Jordan Montgomery and right-hander Jack Flaherty. Goold notes that both players, along with closer Jordan Hicks, are generating interest throughout the league, though the returns on each of those players, if traded by themselves, would reportedly not fit the mold of the Cardinals’ preferred return: controllable, major-league ready starting pitching.
That’s hardly a surprise, given controllable starters are typically regarded as some of the most valuable commodities in the sport. Given this, Goold indicates that the club could get creative and pair rental players with younger, controllable pieces would yield their desired return. In particular, Goold name-checks outfielders Alec Burleson and Dylan Carlson alongside relievers Giovanny Gallegos and Ryan Helsley as longer-term pieces who could be moved. In terms of potential Cardinals targets, Goold references both Yankees prospect Clayton Beeter and Mariners right-hander Logan Gilbert, though Goold cautions that Gilbert would require a “high-ceiling return.”
Recent reporting had previously indicated trade interest in Burleson from multiple clubs, and Goold reaffirms the Yankees’ previously reported interest in Carlson. Goold adds that, in addition to Carlson, the Yankees have interest in Hicks, who has also drawn interest from the Rangers. Additionally, Goold notes that the market for Flaherty and Montgomery includes the Marlins, who have scouted Flaherty in person this trade season, while the Rays are noted to have interest in St. Louis’s available pitchers more generally.
While Miami is seemingly focused on Flaherty among the club’s duo of rental starters, Jon Morosi of MLBNetwork reported last night that talks surrounding Montgomery were “gaining momentum” and that a deal was becoming increasingly likely. While Morosi didn’t specify which team the Cardinals were discussing Montgomery with, he noted that both the Diamondbacks and Orioles have engaged in discussions with St. Louis in recent days.
Unless there’s a third team, the Cardinals don’t matchup well with the Orioles. Their prospects are position players.
I’m an Orioles fan and I have been saying the same thing about the fit just not really being there. I’d love to add Montgomery but it doesn’t seem all that likely since the Orioles don’t have controllable starting pitching to deal. We did pull off a rare 3 team deal with the Astros and Rays last year though, so maybe lightning will strike twice.
Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
But if you try sometimes…..
I agree it’s not the best fit. From the Orioles perspective it is but not from the Cardinals perspective. Orioles and Tigers look like a better fit to me. Cardinals can trade with the Diamondbacks, Marlins or Rangers. Maybe the Rays but I don’t know about that.
The Orioles have Outfield prospects the Cardinals desperately need. Cardinals need at least 2 outfield bats. Kjerstad would be a nice fit and seems to be down the depth chart in Baltimore.
Here comes iH8PaperStraws trolling again.
You and I have drastically different definitions of trolling. I have been consistent on my opinions on the cardinals for a long time. And for the most part, I’ve been spot on. Before the year, projected a sub .500 team with 3rd place finish at best behind the cubs and Brewers. My opinion of players abilities (not just the cardinals, but for the entire league and a lot of minor leaguers) has time and time again proven to be way more accurate then your shock jock banter.
I don’t know anything about your tendencies, but I know we do not NEED Orioles OF prospects. If they want to give us one, fine. But there is nothing we NEED on the offensive side.
@Sportsmutt don’t mind iH8PaperStraws he’s a cubs fan posing as a cardinals fan he likes to go on about how Nootbaar and Donovan suck because they walk a lot and walking = bad it’s the same old story over and over. Meanwhile both Noot and Donovan are on pace for 5 WAR seasons.
Yeah, cubs fans…. That’s always your go to response. I have more cardinals merch, memorabilia, experiences and insight then you could acquire in 5 love times. Not really trying to floss, but some of us live the life rather then eat someones cake.
@sportsmutt
Agreed. Thats why i was surprised to read an article about a proposed deal between the Cardinals and Phillies that would sent Goldschmidt to Philadelphia for three minor league Outfielders when we keep hearing about the logjam in the Cardinals OF
I have seen Kjerstad a couple times. That’s a dude right there. I highly doubt they would trade him. And the Cardinals don’t need a corner outfielder they need a center fielder who hits from the left side. Which Cowser is but Cowser went from underrated to overrated in a hurry and again probably isn’t available.
I like Fabian but not for Montgomery.
The Orioles have 8 players in the top 100. They can’t keep all of them. Kjerstad seems to be the odd man out right now given his position and players they already are using performing well. They need pitching for this year. I would try something like Mikolis, Donovan and Hence. The cardinals need at least two out field bats. ONiel is an injury waiting to happen and is gone after next year. Walker isn’t long for the outfield. Carlson/Nootbaar/Edman are all the same hitter and don’t proved the thump needed, they only need one of those guy. if they Donovan, that group of three becomes a group of 4. Think 2025 not just 2024. If Chase Davis is a hit, an outfield of Kjerstad, Davis one of the 4 guys listed is infinitely better than what they have out there or available in the farm now.
Now list actually good outfield bars because the ones you listed aren’t moving the needle
People don’t trade players away because they have too many good ones. Specially cheap teams like the O’s
Keep dreaming
Heston is taking reps at first and is likely the one who will take over there in the near future. The Orioles are highly unlikely to trade him.
If kjerstad is traded it won’t be for anything the Cards are offering. A middle rotation rental?? Keep dreaming, zero chance Kjerstad is moved at all and especially to the Cards for Montgomery
I never offered Montgomery. I’d send Mikolis who is under contract beyond this season, Tink Hence and Brendan Donovan. And if it Takes a Montgomery or Flarehty as well, still pulling that trigger. Then Orioles need pitching beyond this year, so while Molikis isn’t an ace he is nice fit for Baltimore.
Lmao!
And the O’s hangup again
1. You’ve spelled his name 2 or 3 different ways and they’re all wrong. Mikolas.
2. He’s the only notable starter St Louis has for next year right now, not counting ulquestions currently located in AAA. He’s simply not going out in a trade unless it brings in at least as much starting pitching for next season. Period.
This is why people are saying they’re not a good fit.
Even if we trade Carlson AND Edman, that leaves us an outfield of Noot, Walker, TON, Burleson, Donovan. Names like Antico, VS2, and Chase Davis on the way. We won’t be forced into any trade because someone’s dangling an OF prospect. Thanks anyway.
They are going to have a worse record in 2024 then this year. They need to start trading whatever then can to start to bring back players to fill their huge holes. They need an first man, if Walker goes there they need an outfielder. Oneil has one year left. That’s two outfielders. Mikolis and Matz are gone after next year, that’s 5 starting pitchers. They can’t sign top tier free agents and if they could, they can’t do it in one offseason. Their farm system is empty. So how exactly are they going to get better other then being bad for 5-6 years and building through the draft/international markets? If they don’t gut it now, fans will learn what it was like in the 90’s.
Hence is just as untouchable as Kjerstad is if not more. Hence is simply not available at all under any circumstances.
@simm go take an Advil buddy
Who are you? You know absolutely nothing about the Cardinals. Everything you said about them is wrong. WTH
@PaperStraws
Kjerstad isn’t getting traded for a rental (or at all).
Exactly, that’s not how the O’s have been operating. Maybe one of these years they will go all on but it’s not going to be this year.
People really need to understand that Mike Elias did not spend years tanking for high draft picks to just turn around and trade those high draft picks for rentals.
The only way one of Cowser, Kjerstad, Holliday, etc. get traded is if it is for someone like Logan Gilbert, a young TOR SP with a ton of control remaining.
You need to understand that the Orioles have the best record in the AL. They don’t have to go all in but that teams has earned the right to get some help and make a run in 2023. For all you know this might be the peak. You never know so you should never take for granted when your team is a legit contender and the Orioles are clearly a legit contender.
8 top 100 prospects. You can trade a couple and keep it moving.
Mike Elias has been very clear and very consistent about his long-term strategy to build the Orioles into a sustainable contender (which is looking pretty damn good atm) and he has not deviated from that roadmap in any significant way thus far. You’re free to ignore it but that won’t actually change anything- he simply isn’t going to trade the high draft picks he diligently tanked for years to acquire (i.e. Kjerstad and Cowser) for rentals.
That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have anything to trade though. The Orioles’ farm system is so stacked with talent right now that there are guys who would be top 5-ish prospects in a lot of systems that are only fringe top 10 guys in Baltimore’s system (i.e. Hudson Haskin, Dylan Beavers, and Cesar Prieto). I also wouldn’t be completely shocked if one of the “excess” top 100 prospects like Basallo or Norby was available under the right circumstances.
Wrong
Who is “wrong” and what are they “wrong” about, sportsmutt?
Same with Rays who have checked in.
Remember. Our return doesn’t have to be pitching prospects at all. We can take the best packages we can get, then flip them when the seasons over for that pitching. Especially when teams won’t need every starting arm for their playoff push. See Rays and Marlins.
“Our return doesn’t have to be pitching prospects at all. We can take the best packages we can get, then flip them when the seasons over for that pitching.”
I suppose so, but then why come out and say that you want controllable pitching? That just seems like a way to limit who takes precious, finite time before the deadline to pick up the phone to call you and make an offer.
Last in shoes, last in booze and now last in the national league? That’s a first?
Meanwhile first in shoes? First in booze? And first in the American league? That’s also a first? Look at me Augie Nash? I must be like 108 to know that right?
They’re going to need to get realistic. Nobody is giving them controllable, big show ready starting pitching for rentals.
At least none that a worth a crap. If they are going to get that they will need to trade one of their better position players. Perhaps they package them together.
It would have been nice if they had been open and willing to trade either (or both) Goldy and Arenado. When Mo said neither were available, it pretty much means the Cards won’t get the caliber and controllable type of players they need for a ’24 rebuild – at least on the pitching side.
Yeah they could have got a good haul for them and with the young bats they have they could have built a strong foundation to build upon quickly. Plus they would have had a lot of money to spend.
I get it’s hard to trade guys like that but this felt like the time to do so. The bats on the market right now are pretty bad.
I always thought, and still do, that a Goldschmidt trade makes tons of sense. I get that it’s hard to part with guys like that, but he’ll get you the return you need. On top of that we’ve got all kinds of guys that can play first that are blocked right now.
I’m not for it, but it at least makes more sense than the ridiculous Nado gossip.
They are planning to add controllable position players to the packages,
Yeah. The Cardinals asking price will come down, but I still think they get solid returns.
Somebody will by the time the deadline is up. Trade deadline pitching is always at a premium, the Cardinals have the right pieces for it
Certainly not for Dylan Carlson.
How did this stupid comment get 13 likes?
The Cardinals need high upside pitching. They don’t necessarily need sure things just upside. Here is a list of guys I want and think we could get
Baz
Max Meyer
Trevor Rogers
Mize
Leiter
Porter
Snelling
Bryce Miller
That’s just a few names. None are established or great many are coming off injury and that’s fine. The Cardinals have back end depth to cover an injury or 2. What they don’t have is high end upside.
And who are you trading to get one of those guys, goldy?
Montgomery, Flaherty, Hicks, Herrera etc.
Trade simulator says we can get a couple of them. Herrera for Max Meyer is a deal I have been talking about for months.
I don’t care what the simulator says those guys aren’t bringing back those players.
Very unlikely you get any of those SP for anyone not named Montgomery, and perhaps not even then. A better Herrera deal would be for Fulton or Eder.
Trading Herrera will be a mistake. Contreras will never have a high workload behind the plate.
So the unbiased simulator is no good. But your expert opinion is???
Sure fella
I don’t want Eder. And Fulton is nowhere close.
Meyer doesn’t fit in the Marlins rotation as it is. They can trade him. And they really need a catcher. Who else is trading a ready to play catcher? You tell me.
I can go on that simulator and make a 100 one sided trades. That thing is worthless.
According to that thing the padres could trade lesko, Grisham and lugo for Ohtani.
Or they could trade Merrill for Ohtani and giolito and still have room get another good angles player.
Thing is stupid and broken. Anyone who uses that is wasting their time.
Or unless you think those are fair trades.
No trading, just conduct a military operation and take them.
Lesko is a stud knucklehead.
Good post. I completely agree. We don’t need guys that are solid and non risk additions to be our #4 starter. We need to get guys with #1 or #2 potential. If we don’t want to pay market price in FA, or market price in trades, then we’ll have to take some risks on prospects with high upside with these trades. Heck, I could be our #5 or #6 starter if we pick up a couple aces.
Yes take risks. You get Meyer and Baz odds are only 1 of the 2 will pan out. And that’s totally fine we don’t need depth we need upside.
They don’t need that NOW.
They need the best prospects possible now in order to turn those (and players the Cards have now) into MLB ready pitchers.
Hjerdstdt would be great as they can flip or keep him in the off season.
Love to have Kjersrad even if that’s not a team need. But I don’t see the Orioles trading him at all. He’s clearly going to be a stud.
Agreed. The Os are extremely deep and have plenty prospects to offer. Elias isn’t giving any of the top guys up. Honestly dont see him doing much if anything at all right now. Kjerstad is untouchable and so is Mayo Holiday and the others in the bigs atm. They have players in the top 100 and just outside it that’d be part of any rental type deal and even that is a stretch imo. Building for the long haul not a 1 and done title shot.
Keep dreaming
I was trying to make same point. Of course you know we are creating more work for Mo. i don’t think he likes that. Remember how he kept emphasizing how “hard” the Nado trade was to complete? He said he was exhausted, then took the next two years off from improving the team. That’s why he hates this selling at the deadline. It forced him back from a very long mental vacation.
Exactly. Goldy is the guy to get what the Cards need. Right now they’re sitting on another losing season in 24.
I’ve said as much but I don’t get a vote. I would get some of LA’s top pitching prospects for Arenado as well. I think that is the fastest path back to contention for St. Louis.
I’m going to be angry if they trade Gorman who they have never said is safe. That bat at second is extremely valuable. They need to build around Walker, Gorman, Nootbaar, Donovan, and Winn for the future.
I don’t think I could handle us trading Gorman soberly. That could turn me to the drugs.
The Cardinals will be fine in 2024. I bet they are better than the Phillies. You are wrong.
Lol. Every time someone talks about the Cards you immediately retort attacking their team. Relax. I’m just talking baseball here. It’s not a pissing contest about which team is better. I do not see the Cards as contenders in 2024 unless some moves are made. They are not a good baseball team as currently constructed.
What was the point of your stupid comment? We aren’t rebuilding the team is going to compete in 2024.
Again I bet they are better than the Phillies in 2024.
It is a good team just need to make some trades. The talent is there.
Chill out with the personal attacks. I’m glad your happy with your roster. The Phillies stunk for decades. I wanted trades for prospects. Cardinals don’t need a full rebuild. They have some pieces, but they need a lot. Trades can help. All I’m saying, fella. Relax. Cardinals aren’t close to the Phils. Playofffs showed that. This season showed that. A few good trades and the Cards are right there again.
The 3 game series where are closer blew it showed that???
Lol sure. The money is running out soon champ. Then wait and see what happens.
Wow. I get it now. You’re just kind of a jerk. Good luck.
You made numerous rude comments yourself dude. Cardinals aren’t close to the Phillies? That’s nonsense.
Phillies trying to buy a championship. Good luck with that plan.
First of all, talking baseball is very different from any kind of rude personal attack. Even William O. DeWitt Jr. should not be insulted by Cardinals criticism the way you are.
Secondly, in response to this: “Cardinals aren’t close to the Phillies? That’s nonsense.” Well, the Cardinals aren’t close. The Cardinals are 13 games under .500. The Phillies are 7 games over. That’s a rather large gap. It’s not rude to say that. It’s fact.
I’ve praised the St. Louis organization. I even stated that historically, they’re a much better organization than the Phillies. Right now, the teams aren’t close. I think the Cardinals roster is fixable with some trades. They’ve made some nice ones after my comment. I still don’t see them competing in 2024 unless they part with more and get immediate returns.
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, I’m not even bringing the Phillies into these arguments. You keep doing that and I respond. I’m just talking baseball. Every post slightly criticizing the Cardinals you take as a personal insult for some reason. You immediately try to attack the commenter’s team. In fact, you originally accused me of being a Cubs fan because anyone who has anything not positive to say about the sacred Cardinals must be a fan of a rival team. Far from it. I think the Cardinals are one of the more fascinating teams of the 2023 season. Their deadlines \moves can determine their 2024 season. So far, I think they got some decent returns, but not much that’ll help them next season. I’m curious to see where they go from here. A team that never rebuilds is at a cross road where they kind of are rebuilding, or at least retooling for 2024.
Dude you made some lame comments. It’s becoming a pattern. Enjoy your team playing well. I don’t think the Phillies are built to last but if you win a championship it doesn’t matter. Almost did it last year good for you guys.
Guess that leaves Miami, as they have no position player prospects of note.
Miami is the best fit for the Cardinals imo. Miami will want Ivan Herrera and I think they will want him bad. DeJong is a fit he’s a throw in. Cardinals could use Meyer or Rogers for sure.
The Cardinals would probably rather trade Knizner. Wonder if that interests the Marlins.
Why would the Marlins want anotehr catcher that isn’t an impact piece? We’re fine sticking with Nick Fortes instead of trading assets for Knizner.
Now that the Cardinals traded Hicks to the Blue Jays, the only possible pieces the Marlins could use from the Cardinals are DeJong or Flaherty as complimentary pieces. Nothing else really fits what we’re doing.
A player like Edman or Donovan makes a huge amount of sense for the Marlins. Short of that, Dejong makes sense. I don’t see the Marlins as a good spot for Flaherty. Not worth the incremental upgrade for me.
This has been their natural trade partner all year. Both teams have what the other needs. They know each others major and minor league pieces well ( they share spring training facilities). Perplexing that they have done nothing together since the Alcantara/ Ozuna trade ….which may be the real reason …… still snake bit
Well if Mozeliak calls they will answer. I know that…
Gilbert is a dream that won’t come true. I’d hope for someone better than Beeter tbh. I am not inspired.
FOS-to your point re: Gilbert as a dream target. This Mariners fanatic (sad to say,) wonders how much of the Cards FO interest in Logan Gilbert is just a ‘shooting for the moon’ type discussion/ perspective between the two Orgs. Due diligence. Clearly both GM’s will know how well their teams match up (on paper) in the excess/needs chart. I honestly don’t see Dipoto trading him to St Louis because I don’t think your GM will be able to part with what Dipoto will demand.
The Cards only hope tbh is that our owner is one of THE worst in MLB- his lack of spending forces Dipoto to make such a high volume of trades he’s bound to make the odd bad or foolish trade. Its criminal that our owner has not backed him after being so close w his young team last yr.
Its bizarre to me how many Cardinals fans judge Logan as a “back end SP” based on his ERA alone. A “younger M Mikolas” is my favorite quote! Cards fans are forgetting his young age, they dismiss his track record in College and in the Minors, AND don’t realizing how much bad luck has played into this yrs ERA. They have no idea how much of a travesty it was that he wasn’t an All-Star last yr- He was THE best Pitcher in the AL w a 0.40 ERA for the first month, and when the team needed him the most in the push for a playoff he finished the yr with 8 dominant QS’s in his last 9. All In his 1st full yr in the Bigs! I’m with you FOS: Gilbert to St Louis is a pipe dream
What kind of package would you think is needed for that to happen? People that don’t view him highly just don’t watch baseball.
I think it was on redbird rants where they proposed the idea that Gorman and Nootbar + higher level prospect could bring back Gilbert. For most cardinal fans, that seems impossible to swallow. I kind of agree, but considering how desperately we need quality starting pitching, maybe it should happen.
It would be SO Mo if he did nothing over the next 48 hours, citing “no viable returns” on the various rentals or even outright lying by saying, “We think we have a chance to win the NL Central this year..”
What indicates the Cardinals as sellers? Who have they sold thus far? Maybe they make a trade, if so they need young controllable Major League ready Pitching. Who has that and ready to trade it for Flaherty, Montgomery or unproven OF’s?
“What indicates the Cardinals as sellers?”
Their 46-60 record?
No team wants your scrub throwaways. Sorry St Louis. You’re not getting any value for Dylan Carlson or Burleson. Montgomery with hicks or Gallegos might bring a decent return.
Yeah those 3 pitchers should yield a good return.
Watch and learn, minor-leaguer.
If a team had major league pitchers they wouldn’t be trading for pitching.
EVERYONE should be lined up to acquire Cardinals “scrub throwaways” based on past history. Arozarena, Gallen, L. Thomas, Alcantara, Adolis Garcia are just a few of the guys this organization has developed and let go in recent years, for minimal return.
Other teams know Stl drafts and develops well. Unfortunately, the smarter organizations also know the Cardinals don’t accurately value what they have or what’s being offered to them.
Develop well…as is once they move onto another organization, they finally click? Carlson and Burleson aren’t going to be anything. Comparing those guys to Arozorena and Garcia is hilarious. Neither one of those guys got a “shot”. I guess those incredible talent evaluators took the night off when they let those guys go. Enjoy the suck. You’ve made it.
Yeah give Tampa or Miami a call. They will pick up.
Johnny Brito would also fill that bill for Hicks. Randy Vasquez as well.
Brito and Vasquez are both 25 and closer to being organization filler guys than real prospects.
Maybe. Vasquez is 24 and both would be up if German/Schmidt flopped earlier in the season. Weber is a filler. There’s more talent than most think. Yanks are notorious at bringing starting pitchers up slowly. If you are going to trade Hicks you could do a lot worse than either of these.
The Cards really screwed the pooch signing that catcher. Bad move.
But it’s not certain that the Yankees are in a position to buy, and the bullpen is not a pressing need anyway.
The Cardinals are going to do absolutely nothing. Upper management is too tight with their money, and Mozelaik won’t trade anyone because he’s too afraid of another case of “we should have kept them” – (ie Sandy Alacantra, Randy Arozarens, etc,).
My prediction is they wait too long and either won’t trade anyone, or they trade but get back even less than they’re trying to get in return.
But what more can you expect from a team who needed better pitching, but instead of improving their rotation, or bullpen, they go out and sign a catcher to a 5 year $87 million dollar contract who barely hits, and doesn’t have a clue how call a game (or even having a clue what pitches the starters use).
I don’t agree with everything you said but I do see a botch coming.
I appreciate teams that go out and get what they need, don’t see how waiting until last minute helps anyone but the seller
Thank you, Goold, for telling the truth about the necessary return for Gilbert since some think he has basically no value for some reason.
No one said he doesn’t have any value, but he’s a back end guy at best and his value has been vastly overrated on here. Mikolas 2.0
And Goold says you’re incorrect.
LOLJanowsky!
Gilbert is a proven MLB starter with ace potential and control. Not sure why people even think SEA would deal him.
And will cost one of Donovan or Gorman, plus one of the rental pitchers to get. If that’s even enough.
Gorman + noot + prospect is what I’ve heard is expected to take.
For whatever reason they seem to value Nootbaar over Gorman?
Both Gorman and Nootbaar are far more valuable than Gilbert.
I don’t think so
So they want big league ready starters for rental pieces!? Why would a team trade that for mid tier players? Owner must be delusional.
Read the article more carefully. They plan to package controllable position players to a package.
Yes but like the Mariners haven’t decided if Sellers. Yes White Zox’s didn’t wait tomlastvminute and Cardinals are have have a that coukd be moved.
Ok, but who is able and willing to give up big league ready pitchers? The position players they have worth a damn they dont want to trade.
The back and forth would give people whiplash if they actually believed anything the media throws out there.
Some of us know most of it is planted to gage reaction.
Especially Rosenthal, all talk, very LITTLE substance
It’s hard to see the Orioles and Cardinals matching up on a deal for Montgomery without a third team getting involved to supply the controllable starting pitching St. Louis wants and taking the position player prospects the Orioles have to offer, but man, I’d love to get him.
It’s going to take some creativity and skill to work out a deal in which the Cardinals at least get one (preferably two) solid SP prospects out of this, and it may go a long way toward determining how Stl fans eventually view Mozeliak. He’s had his successes, but he’s never been in the role of seller before and last off season’s failure to maximize his surplus of prospects (and his history of misjudging the talent on hand) make one question whether he’s up to it. Because of his delay, some of the organization’s prospects have lost value, both in terms of years of control and their performance, so it’ll be very interesting to see what the return is on both starting pitching rentals in combination with home grown talent.
He better get this right
“He better get this right”
Or what?
Redbirds are a disaster this season. Bow tie will trade every rental (regardless the return) unless there is zero interest in the player. There will be no tear down in STL. Another go at it in 2024 for the aging Goldy and Nolan. They will have to hit the FA SP market hard to get the frontline starters they need. We all know they won’t trade value for value and the won’t operate at the top of the FA market. There aren’t any Dbacks or Rockies giveaway trades on the horizon. The Cardinals org will continue to decline and bow tie will be let go after his k expires in 2025. Get rid of divisions.
Never understood why the wide spread hate for Mo’s bow tie. Not what I would choose to wear but it isn’t like he is wearing a dress or something. Yet many Mozeliak detractors can’t go a single post without disparaging it.
Bow Tie is easier to spell than Mozeliak. Can’t use MO, because that’s Missouri, although Moe is common among posters that equate him to a Stooge. I wish he had a better offseason, but STL has been pretty enjoyable to follow for many years until this one,
Missouri has a lot of areas that are really country.
True story.
When I was growing up in the 80s and 90s I lived in St Louis but I had many friends from all over. The friends that lived in the country when I would go over to their house in my Japanese car their dad or grandpa would tell me how the car was junk and say a bunch of things I won’t repeat about Japanese people.
Now obviously we know that’s nonsense today. I knew it was then but it still happened.
Lot of country folk in Missouri and the education system isn’t too good in some areas. It’s certainly not everyone but it’s probably where the bow tie comments come from.
I’ve been uncomfortably scrutinized in Sundown Counties in rural MO and southern IL a few times. I’m as white as you can get. Although, I do have a Japanese car (and wife, as fate would have it).
I grew up in rural Missouri. My American history lessons never advanced past the Civil War and our teachers were clearly sympathetic to the Southern cause. I remember when we actually had a black kid move to town and he was automatically put on the basketball team as a decoy to draw the opponent’s best defenders. Funny thing was he was awful. But the family moved after a year due to the local atmosphere. If you haven’t seen counties as backwards as this, you would be surprised. Oh yeah, and our yearly town festival is called Hootin’ n’ Hollerin’ and features outhouse races, husband calling competitions, although I acknowledge that the square dancing is pretty enjoyable and if you know how to do it correctly, you have an advantage with the ladyfolk.
Japanese car AND wife. Making me jelly….
Needless to say KOC, she really wants the Cards by hook or by crook to aquire Ohtani. I won’t hold my breath, but I’d pay and extra $15 per ticket and be happy to do so.
Well we both know it isn’t happening man.
Are there any commenters on these sites that have a clue? What a bunch of clueless opinions!
The DeWitts’ are basically small market minded. Rode a good horse to death and now need to make hard decisions. Yes, misjudged talent with previous trades although I think the Arozarena trade was because of attitude and a video of a team meeting held by Mike Schildt that Arozarena posted & Schildt & the F.O. didn’t like. Mozeliak doesn’t want to be remembered for trading away Goldschmidt & Arenado especially after the recent trades that look bad. Having said that, Goldschmidt & Arenado are in their 30’s. Decline, if it hasn’t already begun, it will soon. Cardinals & their fans get to sentimental, i.e. holding onto Molina & Wainwright for to long. They’re about to do the same again with Goldschmidt & Arenado.
Now is the time to flip them for good young players!
I totally agree. With the lack of bats on the market they could get a really good return for them.
Many of us Cardinals fans were concerned about keeping Molina past his prime but it is evident now that he was functioning as a high level pitching coach in addition to his defensive value.
To summarize the article, Mozaliak is the fantasy baseball manager who sends out absurd one sided deals. He’s built up such a history of it, the other managers already know they are hitting reject without any intent of a counter before they even open the email to see the deal.
The Cubs were never going to trade Stroman and Bellinger unless you knocked them over with a deal. The Farm is stacked. I was curious as to where they were going to start Shaw but since he was assigned to the ACL Speaks volumes about not rushing anybody. You’ve built something here and it’s not time to panic and go all in on Ace High. They have the easiest schedule the rest of the year and it’s a good time to sprinkle in some pitchers and give guys like Hendricks, Stroman and Steele a breather now and then. Making the playoffs is good experience for young guys like Alzolay, Hoerner, Morel etc. The rotation will be real different next year, ( At least it should be) And now’s not the time to deviate from the plan when it’s working. The foundation is set, And I’d love Bellinger back but 2 of 3 of the Cubs top prospects are CF’s and 1B. Give him the QO and see what he really wants. I knew if they won games this week everyone would get dizzy with thoughts of 2016 but it is what it is.
It’s tough to be basically a buyer and seller at the same time. If they are sending starters to teams why would those teams send back controllable mlb ready starters back?
Would you rather have a rookie with two months MLB service time starting your playoff games or Montgomery? This is all about contenders focusing on 2023 while sellers focus on 2024.
I’ll take the rookie if he has high upside.
So you’re happy to lose the playoff game when the kid feels the extreme pressure too soon. Got it. Look back at the 2006 World Series. The Cardinals won because those young pitchers like Verlander broke under the pressure.
Kids have to start somewhere and the cards pitchers are far from great.
So either a guy with one playoff start or zero playoff starts? Not a big difference to me.
Although it may cost more in player capital, I think the Cards should pursue Gilbert, or really any of Seattle’s young pitchers. Most of them have MLB experience and could be plugged directly into the rotation. Only thing is HOW MUCH will it cost? Do y’all think Flaherty+ Carlson+ a lower level prospect gets that deal done?? I think it might.
Only thing that does is get them hung up on .
It would never happen, probably on both sides tbh, but if im the Jays i offer up Alek Manoah for Montgomery, Helsley and Carlson bc they already have 4 starters controlled thru next season and im fearful that Manoah will turn out to be another Pearson in the long run and his value will only decrease from here(which is why its insane to me how baseball values young, controllable starters bc very few survive their controllable years)!!
Manoah isn’t even worth Monty alone. Dude is having an awful season
Lmao look what they got for Hicks, 2 guys who’ll never pitch in the bigs….rentals r going for peanuts…….India is having a terrible year too, but they’re getting good offers too……if u only base it on this season, half the guys on the 50 trade candidates are worth nothing whatsoever…..the article is all about how valuable controllable starting pitching is….Manoah is right now where Flaherty was in 2020….bet the Cards wished they’d traded him then……as i said, not gonna happen anyways, but most teams would value Manoah a lot higher than u do(and as i stated, not sure i agree with that idea myself tbh)
Dodgers get Flaherty
Cardinals get Grove and Sheehay
Way too much
Trading Gallegos and/or Helsley would only make their pitching problems for next year even worse! You can’t improve the pitching staff by dumping two of the few good relievers you’ll otherwise still have left for next year’s bullpen.
I seriously can’t wait until Garrett Cooper is a former Marlin. One of the biggest wastes of time by the Marlins. I still can’t believe that guy still has job security. The biggest problem with the Marlins roster is the veterans, for the most part, don’t lead much so a lot is dependent on the younger p[ayers.
With rallies, we depend on Arraez, Jazz, De La Cruz, Sanchez, Fortes to come through. Soler is what he is. Berti is a tough little player. But when you get to the likes of Cooper, Wendle, Garcia, and a couple others, they are very successful at not succeeding.