Padres president of baseball operations A.J. Preller and renowned agent Scott Boras each conducted media sessions this afternoon at the GM Meetings. Unsurprisingly, Juan Soto’s future was a point of discussion in both pressers.
As he did shortly after the regular season concluded, Preller suggested the Padres’ hope is to work out a long-term extension (link via AJ Cassavell of MLB.com). At the same time, he didn’t rule out the possibility of a trade if no deal came together. “Juan long-term [versus] Juan on a one-year deal, that brings different dynamics,” Preller acknowledged. “We understand what that means for our roster both short-term and long-term.”
With Soto a year from free agency and projected by MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz for what would be a record $33MM arbitration salary next season, an extension will be challenging. Still, the Friars are seeking to compete in 2024. Trading Soto would clear payroll room that could be reallocated to plugging multiple holes in the rotation but would obviously subtract one of the game’s top hitters from the lineup.
Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune wrote this evening that the Friars are likely to consider trade possibilities this offseason. That’s well shy of saying a move is probable, of course, and Cassavell notes that many within the organization understandably prefer to hold onto the star outfielder.
Boras confirmed that the Padres have signaled a willingness to retain Soto. “(I) met with the Padres, they laid out their plan for next year which obviously included a lineup that definitely includes Juan Soto,” the agent told reporters. “He’s their one .900 OPS player. They’re looking for more left-handed bats, rather than less.”
That doesn’t foreclose a trade, although it’s clear the Padres will continue to speak with Boras about extension scenarios before seriously considering moving him. “We’re going to have conversations with Scott and his group about what it looks like long-term,” Preller said (via Cassavell). “Our position-player team, we think, is very strong. Keeping that group together, adding to the pitching — that’s one plan.“
You have egotistical megalomaniac Juan Soto and greedy Darth Vader Scott Borras, what could go wrong for the Padres?
Basically he’s a goner, for the best offer. Soto ain’t staying there in San Diego. Let’s stop pretending he is already.
So you read that he is DEFINTELY staying in San Diego to at least start the 2024 season and somehow infer that he is a goner? Are you on crack or are you hitting the bottle HEAVY?
He’s a goner. In my experience anytime the Dodgers have traded for or had a player they wanted they always lock him up a year or two before free agency.
Not the case. Dodgers have waited until after they declare for free agency more than half the time. Betts was 1 year before.
Can you name even one case where they locked up a major player 2 years before free agency?
Soto is 1 year before free agency and the Padres are talking to his agent about an extension now.
Machado, Scherzer, Turner, I could go on.
“So you read that he is DEFINTELY staying in San Diego to at least start the 2024 season and somehow infer that he is a goner?”
If I had to guess, I think Juan Soto will definitely not finish the year in San Diego(maybe not even start the year in S.D). When you start reading the tea leaves, taking into account their high payroll and recent disastrous season, I think you can reasonably guess and infer that S.D will probably try to cash in Juan Soto at some point for payroll savings and to renew their farm. I dont boast any inside sources but that is just one man’s opinion, but where there’s smoke there’s usually fire.
When you underperform, is your response to quit? Because the Pads didn’t make the playoffs last year is exactly why they want Soto in the lineup next in 2024. They graded a lot of good players for Soto, they’re committed. And get used to the Padres having a high payroll, that’s not changing anytime soon.
None of those guys signed with the Dodgers 2 years before they became a free agent.
Clayton Kershaw on his first big deal was signed a year before free agency.
It’s sorta like asking a chick that likes you vs one that’s b-sing you for a date.
One says yes.
The other says I’ll let you know.
Soto is one year before free agency and the article says they are working on an extension.
“read that he is DEFINITELY staying in San Diego to at least start the 2024 season?” What the hell are you guys talking about? I had to look over to re-read the article to make sure I didn’t miss something but… what? Where does anyone say Juan Soto “is DEFINITELY staying in San Diego to start the season?” That was never said by anyone at all and the fact that people are even talking about it makes me believe they didn’t even read the article they are so passionately arguing about. My understanding from the article is that the Padres would like to extend Soto at the right price but if Soto doesn’t sign an extension that makes it MORE likely he WON’T start the season with them because they are willing to trade 1 year of Soto if they think that’s all they will have him for anyway. Am I the only one who read the article that way? Where did all this “DEFINITELY staying in San Diego” nonsense come from? As far as I can tell it’s just a flat out lie.
@mlb fan
Did you read that David Ross was the Cubs manager for ’24, per the team owner?
When you underperform, is your response to quit?
=========================
That’s not really the right question. When the NYM under-performed, they quit and rightfully so. The Padres have a lot more talent than the NYMs, still only won 82 with a Py 92, and lost at least half their pitching.
So the real question is not quitting, but rather, are they going to commit to the maybe $325M to get back to last year’s talent level?
Soto is one year before free agency and the article says they are working on an extension.
============================
I heard the same about Ohtani. And I said the same thing at the 2022 deadline, and the off-season. At some point, if you’ve been negotiating for a year or two, and haven’t gotten anywhere, there is a reasonable chance that you won’t get anywhere.
Boras confirmed that the Padres have signaled a willingness to retain Soto. “(I) met with the Padres, they laid out their plan for next year which obviously included a lineup that definitely includes Juan Soto,” the agent told reporters. “He’s their one .900 OPS player. They’re looking for more left-handed bats, rather than less.”
I think in a weak hitters market he’ll be traded because he can fetch a haul somewhat similar to what they have the Nationals. The padres are really close regardless of their record I think their offense will be fine without Soto they need to allocate funds elsewhere. Clearly a need of a retool or shake up. But I’d do it in the off-season to use the saved 33m in other holes
325MIL. Exaggerate much? More likely a very competitive team at about $250 MIL, better on paper than last year.
Whoever said $325 million is someone I must have muted. That is lucky for me I guess.
Read this in Reddit by a guy named KRTARANGER and it makes some sense. I am sure people here will pick it apart just like they did on Reddit. Not sure how it will format so it may be a mess.
Padres 2024 Roster and Payroll
Name 2023 Age 2024 Salary (in millions)
On the Roster Today
Joan Soto 24 $32.00
Manny Machado 30 $17.09
Fernando Tatis Jr. 24 $11.71
Xander Bogaerts 30 $25.45
Yu Darvish 36 $16.00
Joe Musgrove 30 $20.00
Jake Cronenworth 29 $7.29
Robert Suarez 32 $10.00
Ha-Seong Kim 27 $8.00
Guaranteed Salaries $147.54
To be added by FA signings or Trades
Jung Hoo Lee 25 $10.00
Yoshinobu Yamamoto 25 $21.50
Yariel Rodriguez 27 $8.00
Erick Fedde 30 $3.00
Jakob Junis 31 $7.50
Jesus Luzardo 25 $5.90
Gary Sanchez 30 $5.00
Garrett Cooper 32 $5.00
Matt Carpenter 37 $5.50
FA and Trade Salaries $71.40
Likely to make OD roster
Adrián Morejón 24 $1.00
Steven Wilson 28 $0.74
José Azocar 27 $0.74
Luis Campusano 24 $0.74
Pedro Avila 26 $0.74
Ray Kerr 28 $0.74
Eguy Rosario 23 $0.74
Tom Cosgrove 27 $0.74
Arb and Pre-Arb Salaries $6.18
Total OD Payroll $225.12
Eric Hosmer released $13.00
Total Payroll $238.12
Average age 27.57
He said all the salaries were AAV based on the predictions on this website top 50 Free Agents article and then average of predictions for the others that are not top 50 FAs
The obvious mistake he made was putting Carpenter among the FA and trades when he picked up his option and is a guaranteed salary.
I can see all of that happening, although Yamamoto is likely to be highly sought after with all of the big spending teams after him.
The $325M actually quite low. The CBT number that SD would need to to re-assemble their 2023 team is $356M. That’s using Cots + MLB-R projected free agency contracts.
Cots $270.6
Snell 28.6
Hader 18.3
Lugo 14.0
Wacha 12.0
Martinez 12.5
People like Pads fan will respond by saying they will be able to sign the same level of talent at half the price, but they won’t.
You seem to be more level-headed than most of the SD fans, so if you want to make a case on how it will be much cheaper, I will be glad to listen.
But you’re starting point is $270.6M, and you’ve lost half your pitching. But let’s see your numbers.
The Mets quit? Not that I can tell. They sold off old guys to add to the farm system. This offseason they will add pitching, their only real holes in that roster.
Unless you mean that by not signing more 38-40 year old pitchers they quit.
Ohtani wasn’t traded. 70% of players that sign an extension do so in the offseason before FA.
Maybe you should actually READ what he posted.
Here is what he posted:
“Brew884 hours ago
325MIL. Exaggerate much?”
That’s what I addressed. But again, if someone wants lay out how the Padres get to their 2023 talent level, without spending $325M, I’d be glad to listen.
I thought you were responding to Pads Fans. His post seems more realistic than yours.
Joe, Since either you muted him or he muted you or both, here is Pads Fans post about Padres payroll. Its on the money, pun intended.
—————————————————————-
Pads Fans5 hours ago
Whoever said $325 million is someone I must have muted. That is lucky for me I guess.
Read this in Reddit by a guy named KRTARANGER and it makes some sense. I am sure people here will pick it apart just like they did on Reddit. Not sure how it will format so it may be a mess.
Padres 2024 Roster and Payroll
Name 2023 Age 2024 Salary (in millions)
On the Roster Today
Joan Soto 24 $32.00
Manny Machado 30 $17.09
Fernando Tatis Jr. 24 $11.71
Xander Bogaerts 30 $25.45
Yu Darvish 36 $16.00
Joe Musgrove 30 $20.00
Jake Cronenworth 29 $7.29
Robert Suarez 32 $10.00
Ha-Seong Kim 27 $8.00
Guaranteed Salaries $147.54
To be added by FA signings or Trades
Jung Hoo Lee 25 $10.00
Yoshinobu Yamamoto 25 $21.50
Yariel Rodriguez 27 $8.00
Erick Fedde 30 $3.00
Jakob Junis 31 $7.50
Jesus Luzardo 25 $5.90
Gary Sanchez 30 $5.00
Garrett Cooper 32 $5.00
Matt Carpenter 37 $5.50
FA and Trade Salaries $71.40
Likely to make OD roster
Adrián Morejón 24 $1.00
Steven Wilson 28 $0.74
José Azocar 27 $0.74
Luis Campusano 24 $0.74
Pedro Avila 26 $0.74
Ray Kerr 28 $0.74
Eguy Rosario 23 $0.74
Tom Cosgrove 27 $0.74
Arb and Pre-Arb Salaries $6.18
Total OD Payroll $225.12
Eric Hosmer released $13.00
Total Payroll $238.12
Average age 27.57
He said all the salaries were AAV based on the predictions on this website top 50 Free Agents article and then average of predictions for the others that are not top 50 FAs
The obvious mistake he made was putting Carpenter among the FA and trades when he picked up his option and is a guaranteed salary.
I can see all of that happening, although Yamamoto is likely to be highly sought after with all of the big spending teams after him.
His post shows that they will. For much less. It also shows that your numbers are completely wrong.
Why would they reassemble their previous team, pay Pomeranz again etc….? That’s just nonsense.
I agree with your analysis.
A few are “cherry picking” the facts and statements at the press conference.
Paragraph 2 in the article states that paragraph one about retaining Soto and extending him “is one plan”.
That strongly implies that the Padres, like most sports teams, have numerous possible plans and scenarios laid out.
It states and implies that they are open to trading Soto if they get an offer from another team that they like better than keeping him.
“Bubba Crosby is our centerfielder, guys.” Vibes
They sold off old guys to add to the farm system.
========================
Equals quitting. Or tanking if you prefer.
I don’t generally mute people unless they are mostly spamming. I saw the post. If he is referring to simply a cash cost, then I’d guess it is likely correct.
But almost all conversations regarding payroll reference CBT payroll. Mine is 100% correct to the extent of the MLBR FA projections.
FWIW, when people deviate from normal references, they do so to make their arguments stronger than they are in the real world.
Or, from a purely cash basis, if you take the cash earnings of the 5 pitchers I referenced, if you were to sign them (to get back to exactly where you were), it would cost you an additional cash cost of ~ $30.3M.
These are the numbers. All other arguments revolve around getting the same value for less money. That usually doesn’t happen.
The real question is since the Padres do not have to cut payroll, why would a team that has a stated goal of making the WS in 2024 trade away their best hitter?
They already have a two starting pitchers that are TOR starters. A solid #3 and a couple back of the rotation starters is what they need and at least one of those can be filled in house. In an offseason with a plethora of FA options at starting pitching, I see no reason the Padres cannot easily fill their needs without trading away an irreplaceable player. .
My adjustments to his post. I would rather see Lugo brought back at 2/24 with an option than Junis, but I left that as is because I can see Niebla working his magic on Junis and he is 3 years younger. I included the positions I believe they will play to start the 2024 season.
LF – Joan Soto 24 $33.00
1B – Manny Machado 30 $17.09
RF – Fernando Tatis Jr. 24 $11.71
SS – Xander Bogaerts 30 $25.45
SP – Yu Darvish 36 $16.00
SP – Joe Musgrove 30 $20.00
2B – Jake Cronenworth 29 $7.29
CL – Robert Suarez 32 $10.00
3B – Ha-Seong Kim 27 $8.00
DH – Matt Carpenter 37 $5.5
CF – Jung Hoo Lee 25 $10.00
SP – Yoshinobu Yamamoto 25 $21.50
RP – Yariel Rodriguez 27 $8.00
SP – Erick Fedde 30 $3.00
RP – Jakob Junis 31 $7.50
SP – Jesus Luzardo 25 $5.90
C – Gary Sanchez 30 $5.00
DH – Garrett Cooper 32 $5.00
RP – Adrián Morejón 24 $1.00
RP – Steven Wilson 28 $0.74
OF – José Azocar 27 $0.74
C – Luis Campusano 24 $0.74
RP/SP – Pedro Avila 26 $0.74
RP – Ray Kerr 28 $0.74
Eguy Rosario 23 $0.74
Tom Cosgrove 27 $0.74
Total Opening Day Payroll $226.12
+ Eric Hosmer $13.0
Total 2024 Payroll $239.12
That is about $10 million less than 2023 and leaves the Padres with a little leeway to trade for others at the deadline.
It doesn’t include the return for trades of Grisham, Barlow, and Hill.
It also doesn’t mention the substantial trade chips the Padres would have to give up for Luzardo. That would likely include a couple of prospects in the Padres top 10 including at least one that is a top 100 prospect. Maybe something like Grisham, Zavala or Marsee, and Iriarte? Maybe they want an MLB ready player like Rosario instead of a prospect like Zavala or Marsee?
Overall what he proposed fills all the boxes for the Padres. lowers the average age, and lowers payroll slightly.
Not LIKELY correct. Exactly correct.
MOST conversations don’t talk about CBT because that is NOT what teams pay in that year. CBT is a calculation based on the AAV of all contracts including many that the team will not be paying nearly as much in some years. The Padres pay Machado just $17 million and Tatis $11 million in 2024 but their AAV is $31.18 million and $24.28 respectively. The AAV has NO relation to what the team’s outlay or required cashflow will be in any given year. Their actual payroll is the real world. ITs what they ACTUALLY have to spend that year.
The actual CBT figures and any fines for surpassing the CBT are due the following year. They cannot even be calculated in full until the calendar year is over.
So when you “deviate from normal references” you are doing so to make your argument stronger than it would be in the real world.
#3 starter – Snell – $16..6 million
#6 starter – Lugo – $7.5 million
#5 starter – Wacha – $7.5 million
CL – Hader – $14.1 million
RP/Swing – Martinez – $10 million #
Total – $55.7 million
That is what they actually made in 2023. We don’t know what they will cost in 2024. We have projections. Its much more than what they made in 2023.
Projections on this site
Snell – $28.5 million
Lugo – $14 million
Wacha – $12 million
Hader – $18.5 million
Martinez – $12.5 million
Total – $88.5 million
The Padres chose not to pay them the options because they didn’t think their performance justified it. Most likely because they felt other options that could be had cheaper and might even be better. It’s doubtful that the Padres will pay them the increases that are being projected for 2024 with the other cheaper and potentially better options available.
Other than Snell the Padres picked all those guys up off the “trash heap”. All had serious warts. Martinez was playing in Japan. Wacha was a bounce back candidate that had one decent year in Boston and the Padres took a chance on him for cheap. Lugo was a reliever in NY for 6 years and the Padres gave him a shot to start for cheap. Hader had imploded in Milwaukee and the Padres felt they could fix him.
On that list he posted lets take a few of them and look at the numbers and the projections.
Yamamoto is expected to be an Ace in MLB. At the least he will be a middle of the rotation starter. Even though he is expected to get huge dollars for a NPB import, it will still be less AAV than Snell and a similar overall amount for a player 6 years younger.
Yariel Rodriguez is an unknown. His scouting grade is a 60. He is expected to be a reliever to start in the US mostly because he has not pitched many innings since leaving Cuba. He is projected to make $8 million AAV or about what Lugo or Wacha did and 50-65% less than they are expected to get in 2024.
Junis is about the same pitcher as Martinez and is projected to make $2.5 million less than he did last season and $5 million less than he is projected to make in 2024.
If they are able to trade for him, Luzardo is cheaper, $5.9 million, and better than Wacha, Lugo, or even Darvish.
If they sign Yamamoto, Luzardo would slot in as the Padres #3 or #4 depending on where they wanted to slot Darvish. Musgrove, Yamamoto, Luzardo, Darvish, and 3-4 other options for #5-6. That is stronger and its cheaper than they were in 2023.
websoulsurfer He was a goner. That whole “DEFINITELY staying in San Diego to at least start the 2024 season” was just a lie you made up. It didn’t happen and no one ever said he would. What’s up with the lies?
One can only hope.
Commenters below failed to read the next paragraph from the presser
which ends with the line ” that is one plan” which means there are many alternate plans being considered including trading Soto if they get the offer they like,
“That doesn’t foreclose a trade, although it’s clear the Padres will continue to speak with Boras about extension scenarios before seriously considering moving him”. “We’re going to have conversations with Scott and his group about what it looks like long-term,” Preller said (via Cassavell). “Our position-player team, we think, is very strong. Keeping that group together, adding to the pitching — that’s one plan.“
Boras is great for his clients. But bad trying to do other things like suggesting a neutral site World Series
Slight correction please.. boras is 90% out for himself, 10% for those he is supposed to be representing and could care less about the game. All one has to do is listen to one of his so called press conferences and it becomes clear. They repeat themselves, only a clients name changes.
What is the biggest shame regarding him and others as greedy as him from both sides of the game is that their supporters put them on a pedestal and refuse to see any wrong doing on their part, nor harm.
As long as he doesn’t end up in Wrigley, I could care less. The outfield is clogged enough. The Cubs are even playing Morel at 1B in Winter Ball and probably all spring so that leaves another position out for Soto if he makes it.
@johnsilver: And the owners who illegally exploited and underpaid generations of players under the reserve system until arbitrators in the 1970s forced them to deal with labor on a more equitable basis aren’t greedy?
It’s important to understand that history, which is what led to the work of Marvin Miller and made agents like Boras necessary.
The owners, who in 1994 and 1995 canceled a World Series and tried to illegally hire replacement players after refusing to bargain with the MLBPA in good faith in order to bust the union and force a salary cap down the players’ throats, have never of their own accord looked out for the best interests of their employees.
They only do so now that they’ve been forced by a strong labor union and professional player representation by Boras and others.
If he and other agents have done anything wrong, it pales in comparison to the greedy, parsimonious practices of teams and their owners going back at least 125 years.
How anyone who considers himself a true and serious fan of the game can be so ignorant of this history is totally amazing.
Yea, Boras repeatedly tells all of his young clients to go year to year and maximize their first contract. Turn down the guaranteed 70 mill that sets you up for life and insulates against potential injuries/downturn in performance while still leaving time for a second big contract. Roll the dice and you might be able to afford a home in an ultra rich instead of a very rich neighborhood, pay no attention to the commission behind the curtain!
@case: And you, of course, have no idea of any advice he actually gives his clients.
You only know what’s been fed to you by the media.
case
“Yea, Boras repeatedly tells all of his young clients to go year to year and maximize their first contract. Turn down the guaranteed 70 mill that sets you up for life and insulates against potential injuries/downturn in performance”
If a player implodes their value going year to year, doesn’t that also cost Boras money?
I don’t see how your point makes any sense
And you only know what information is being carried via nerve impulses to your brain. It’s entirely possible you’re just a brain in a vat somewhere that’s being programmed to have a man crush on some fictional character named Scott Boras.
Boras makes his money by looking out for his clients. Boras makes his money from the sport of baseball and only from the sport of baseball. Boras would have to be an idiot to not have the best interests of the sport of baseball at heart.
What a terrible take. Did he sleep with your spouse or kick your dog?
I dunno, you’d have to calculate how many Felipe Vazquezs offset a Bryce Harper commission, I doubt it’s a 1 to 1 ratio. For example, if the Jays offered Chapman an extension while he was absolutely tearing it up at the beginning of the season and Boras instructs him to turn it down so he can play teams off each other, what’s the net gain or loss now that Chapman had another so so offensive year?
Blue Baron. Not even going to bother with taking apart the crux of that statement.. It follows what point made in my original post that agents, in this case Boras defenders put him on a pedestal and nearly worship him as some kind of godlike being.
As for another statement saw in that post. “strong unions”? Unions at 1 time were much needed groups, however they are also responsible for Steel production and manufacturing, like many other important industries being GONE in this country, bankrupting Chrysler corp (partialy) in the 1970’s and pretty much making the “big 3” US automakers has beens compared to those with -0- US loyalty. Spare me the powerful “strong union” sentimentality.
@case: No. Unlike you, I am a student of history and the game, and I understand the reasons that players hire agents, not fictional characters, to manage their business affairs and look out for their best interests.
This has no adverse effect on my life, so I don’t take it personally and walk around being angry about it for no reason like you do.
Gordon Gekko would love to sell you some of his company’s stock. I mean, he’d be an idiot not to have the best interests of his clients and company at heart, right?
You’ve blown up a lot of Boras threads and seem pretty mad bro. By all means though, walk around being not angry and telling people you’re really good at history, people that tell you they’re really smart usually are right?
And appropriately enough, Marvin Miller came from the steelworkers union in the late 1960s to organize the MLBPA.
You don’t see the connection between that and the successful challenge to the illegal reserve system that kept players under the owners’ thumbs for decades?
No, Boras is neither put on a pedestal nor seen as a godlike being.
He’s just a professional who does his job and does it very well.
There’s nothing wrong with that and it’s unfortunate that ignorant people like you take it so personally when he’s never done you any harm.
Gordon Gekko was a fictional character. Boras is not.
Sorry. I have no patience for the kind of stupidity with which you blow up these threads.
It doesn’t make sense, like most of what case says.
I don’t understand the question and I won’t respond to it.
You CAN’T take apart Blue Baron’s argument, because he hit the nail squarely on the head,
I can take apart your argument though. Unions are why you have a weekend, insurance, and that your 9 year old is not working in that steel mill.
GREED is the reason much the steel industry collapsed in the US. Inadequate investment in new technologies, low expenditures on research and development by US companies combined with foreign government subsidizing of their steel industries.
@case: “I don’t understand.”
Truer words have never been spoken.
Good for you for finally admitting it.
@Blue Baron Don’t worry, I am a student of history and the game, and I understand the reasons that players hire agents to manage their business affairs and look out for their best interests. Scott Boras would think I’m a really cool guy and he definitely appreciates all of my internet posts, don’t believe everything the media tells you.
I don’t, and I certainly don’t believe anything you tell me.
false information and opinion alert.
The player only gets one opportunity. They are the one taking the risk. Boras will just move on to another player. He gets lots of chances. Its just a numbers game to him. As long as he wins more than he loses, he’s fine. You just don’t want to be one of the losses.
@blue baron
He’s just a professional who does his job and does it very well, more often than not.
There. Fixed it for you.
Yes, unions have done a lot of good. That doesn’t make them perpetually right going forward. During the Great Recesion, the UAW Canada negotiated to let Ford cut 1000 workers so the rest could get about a .25 per hour raise. I doubt those 1000 workers felt the Union did right by them. Don’t let the past blind you to the future. Remember Jimmy Hoffa.
His clients would disagree, but you know better.
Where did I say they are perpetually right?
All I said was that the MLBPA and player agents came into being because of the owners’ illegal practices and treatment of employees.
It makes ton of sense. Boras can afford to gamble on a huge payday, he’s already a millionaire. The player he’s advising might not have generational wealth.
Its stupid to suggest that boras isn’t a great agent. It’s also stupid to not remember how he routinely gambles with guys careers when he damn well knows about the rules and advises them to sit out until June because he doesn’t like the current rules.
And it’s even more stupid to judge him for how he conducts his business without knowing exactly what he does and how as opposed to speculating about it.
It used to be affordable to go to games, and back then only the owners were “greedy.” Now *both* the owners and players are “greedy” and the money comes out of our pockets, us fans. Cui Bono? Why should even more people get rich off us? And don’t tell us the money comes from sponsors and advertising and TV rights, etc. Every one of those raises the costs for us, whether at the game or for the products we buy. We lose, by definition. So every one of them are greedy – players, owners, agents, the union, corporations, etc. They *all* want a bigger piece of the pie. And this pie isn’t even one that produces anything- no products at all, other than athletic gear. It’s all vastly overpriced entertainment. But you go right ahead and support them. All they get from me is ads on web pages, and I ignore those.
Good call. Reminds me of That Hideous Strength, C.S. Lewis.
That’s your choice to make, and you are wiser to do that rather than complaining about the costs while still paying them.
That’s your opinion and it’s wrong.
You disagreeing with my opinion doesn’t make it wrong. It just means you disagree.
Are you going to explain why you disagree or just behave like an ignorant person?
GREED is the reason much the steel industry collapsed in the US.
==============================
It was going to collapse anyway. As the world flattened out, and as more of the world embraced capitalism, it was going to boil down to labor costs and environmental regulations.
IMO, some dude in Malaysia has just as much right to a steel job as an American.
You just don’t want to be one of the losses.
=============================
Meh. You can always sign a contract. Someone like Casas can add up his predicted 5 years of earnings, take a 20% discount. That would set him up for life, and not give away any FA years.
If that meant taking $30M while he might’ve made $40M, the security is probably worth it.
All I said was that the MLBPA and player agents came into being because of the owners
=============================
I don’t even know why this is a discussion. Approximately 100% of the people in here want the most they can reasonably get. Even if you love your job and have no intention of leaving, everyone probably still argues for a higher salary.
This is a nothing-burger.
It wasn’t such a nothing-burger 50 years ago, when the owners illegally restricted the players from selling their skills and services to the highest bidder in an open market and forced the players to go to binding arbitration to win free agency rights.
Flash forward to today, and it seems like there are people on here who take this personally and resent the players and their agents (with Boras as the straw man because he’s the only agent many people can name) for the money they make as their fair share of the value they bring to the game.
It’s as if some commenters are just mouthpieces for the owners.
Case
“And you only know what information is being carried via nerve impulses to your brain. It’s entirely possible you’re just a brain in a vat somewhere that’s being programmed ”
The same would be true for you, of course
“man crush on some fictional character named Scott Boras.”
That’s some serious projection of your own way of thinking
I hardly ever think of him.
I think he’s good at what he does
I know nothing about him personally
JB
” was going to collapse anyway. As the world flattened out, and as more of the world embraced capitalism, it was going to boil down to labor costs and environmental regulations.
IMO, some dude in Malaysia has just as much right to a steel job as an American”
I haven’t agreed with you often
But here I do
It’s as if some commenters are just mouthpieces for the owners.
=============================
Not enough independent thinkers in America. Owners want to make the most money. Players want to make the most money. Everyone in wants to make the most money.
It’s a non-issue, and there is no reason to root for either side.
I get tired of this. America is not going to thrive by being in a labor world with third-world economies. We have to focus on what we do (or should do) best.
Even past that, from a global politic perspective, having countries become more economically & politically stable is good for us.
Both Hillary and Trump should’ve embraced a US version of the TPP. Good suppliers can be good customers.
Marvin Miller ‘s work got him elected to the Hall of Fame.
Boras, generally does a very good job representing his clients.
But, he has flubbed some negotiations:
Examples with a few players for the MLB draft
where Boras advised his client(s) to wait it out for even more $$.
It backfired in a few cases and those players had to go back into
the next draft for less money,
There were a few instances where players took the highest offer
and the team/situation was not the “right fit” for those players and their families.
The top money offered, sometimes, is not the best deal for the player and his family when many other factors are taken into consideration.
(quality of life, schools, cities and states that may/may/not be a fit,
An Agent should be advising his players and their families of that.
Every player and deal does not have to be an auction to the highest bidder. If other factors are not being presented and if the client is not being counseled that, sometimes, the offer for less up front money may make the player and his family happier in the long run etc…
(Some free agents signed deals with teams that could not, did not make the playoffs and did not give those players an adequate chance to play at baseball’s highest levels in the playoffs and World Series.
Unions were instrumental in:
building the US Middle Class.
ending child labor laws,
compulsory education for children,
health care,
weekends off,
holidays off and with pay,
paid vacations,
time and 1/2 for overtime,
pensions
AND MUCH MORE
L:abor costs are higher in Germany,
Germany pays their workers more,
They have paid family leave
They take care of their workers and citizens.
Some US Service members who were stationed at American bases in Germany married local Germans and decided to stay in Germany after their service since they stated it was much better deal for them financially with universal medical care, paid family leave, paid vacations for everyone every year and much more.
Environmental regulations are required to have clean air, clean water, non contaminated soil, food, medicines etc.
Commentat0rs, the Commissioner, people broadcasting the games are all pushing info the Owners want out there.
Even some in the print and online media push the Owners’ agenda.
*Enacting (not ending) child labor laws.
What I said came word for word by a study done by the STEEL industry. I guarantee that they know more about why their industry failed than you do.
So you can continue to try to argue the point, or you can realize that sometimes you are wrong and don’t know everything.
It wasn’t about Malaysia who is 26th in the world in steel production, it was about China. It wasn’t just about jobs, it was about how they were subsidizing their steel industry to beat the US. IF the US steel industry had put more money into R&D and upgrading plants, they could have STILL competed with a rigged system in China and other places. But those at the top were greedy and wanted to maximize profits rather than save the industry as a whole. THAT is what the AISI, American Iron and Steel Institute, gave as the reason for the collapse and loss of jobs.
@SportsFan0000: You are correct that every player’s free agency doesn’t have to be an auction to the highest bidder.
What is most important, and what Marvin Miller and the overturning of the reserve clause paved the way for, is for players to have the right to become free agents and choose where to play, based on the highest offer or other criteria of choice.
Just like these posters have no idea of the Padres financial needs and why they were desperate to get a line of credit for 100M in September and MLB would only approve 50M.
The Padres knew the financial requirements and what was expected of them by the MLB league office and Commish.
The Padres, apparently, had a cash flow shortfall and really needed that 50M.
It was very poor planning by the Padres.
Very likely, the Padres budgeted for making the playoffs and the extra revenue they would have received in the playoffs.
When that did not happen, then they went with “hats in hand” to their lenders for an extra line of credit rather than ask the Ownership partners
for a “cash call” to cover revenue shortfalls.
Thanks. That is what I meant.;
Unfortunately, there is a lot of that going on on these threads.
Intelligent sports fans can agree to disagree on some issues.
It does not mean they are wrong, just reasonable minds can disagree on somethings and have differing opinions.
In 1975, pitchers Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally challenged the reserve clause in court.
SFoooo
“[Boras] has flubbed some negotiations:
Examples with a few players for the MLB draft
where Boras advised his client(s) to wait it out for even more $$.
It backfired in a few cases and those players had to go back into
the next draft for less money,
There were a few instances where players took the highest offer
and the team/situation was not the “right fit” for those players and their families.
The top money offered, sometimes, is not the best deal for the player and his family when many other factors are taken into consideration.
(quality of life, schools, cities and states that may/may/not be a fit,
An Agent should be advising his players and their families of that.
Every player and deal does not have to be an auction to the highest bidder. If other factors are not being presented and if the client is not being counseled that, sometimes, the offer for less up front money may make the player and his family happier in the long run etc…
(Some free agents signed deals with teams that could not, did not make the playoffs and did not give those players an adequate chance to play at baseball’s highest levels in the playoffs and World Series.”
Ik curious how you know what Boras advised compared to what the player wanted
How do you know that Boras didn’t advise one thing and the player didn’t choose another?
It’s weird that you seem to know what should be private discussions between players and Boras, but don’t give any specific examples.
In an ideal situation, the agent wouldn’t advise anything. They would present the pros and cons of different deals and the player should decide.
*Stephen Drew has joined the chat*
SportsFan000010 hours ago
Commentat0rs, the Commissioner, people broadcasting the games are all pushing info the Owners want out there.
=======================
As are the players and their agents and the GMs.
Padres weren’t desperate for that loan. If was planned far in advance, its something very common for teams to do, and IF you read the articles, you know it was not for payroll since it was taken out in late September and it was for something planned to come due later in the year when their are no baseball operations costs.
Very likely the Padres took out a loan to help with the costs of the construction at the Park at the Park and the start of the $1.5 billion Tailgate Park development that starts this winter. I could be wrong about both of those being what the loan was for, but we do know for a fact that its not for payroll since there is little until after opening day.
What the Padres didn’t do is issue a cash call to other owners, so we know that they did not lose money in 2023. In a limited partnership like the Padres its required to balance the books at fiscal years end and if they lost money, that means a cash call to the partners. Greupner said there won’t be one.
But certainly you know more than Erick Greupner. So we will defer to your knowledge.
Id like to see, hypothetically given a budget how boras would field and pay his team.
@Citizen1: That’s not Boras’ job to figure out and not his problem. That’s the owners’ jobs.
Boras has a job, to represent his player clients and manage their financial affairs, and he does it very well.
Most of the time. If he advised Soto to turn down the Washington offer, he made a mistake.
Reread my comment and look up the word hypothetically
Read my comment and look up not his job.
Why would you say that? Unless he has a career ending injury this season, Soto will get more money in either an extension or in FA than the he was offered by the Nationals and its likely that none of it will be deferred so it will be worth even more. In the interim he will have earned $50+ million. Seems like pretty good advice if that is what Boras advised him to do.
Not his job- sounds like boras does want to his.
Citi
“Id like to see, hypothetically given a budget how boras would field and pay his team.”
That might be interesting
Remember, of course, that an agent is fundamentally different than being a GM. That have vastly different goals
@Shadow_Banned: His name is BORAS, and he’s the best player agent in the business. What do you have against him when he’s just doing his job? Has he cost you any money or are worried that the poor, destitute owners have to pay too much for the players that fans pay to watch?
What’s delusional is to bear animosity toward a guy who’s the best at what he does and ensures that the players so admired and rooted for by their fans earn their fair share of the value they bring to The Show with their skills, talent, and hard work.
Boras has done nothing wrong.
I don’t see how people say Boras is ruining the game when all he’s doing is working all the teams to figure how dumb they are and how much money the stupid owners will pay. If anybody is ruining the game it’s the owners who bid on Fantasy teams. If anybody is ruining the game it’s idiots like Cohen and Preller.
Preller is a GM. He is not paying those big contracts. So who is the idiot?
Thankfully, we have brilliant and bespectacled men that know what everyone’s ‘fair share’ is. The wealth owners accumulate by leading their companies = bad, dirty money. The wealth Boras has made leading his company = good, just money. This may be the silliest fan boy situation yet on MLBTR.
Owners are good, fair, and generous.
Players and agents are bad, greedy, and ungrateful.
Got it.
Nope, dumb counter. Anyone with a worthwhile opinion on this subject would provide some nuance and see that there is good and bad on both sides. Cluelessly ranting against owner greed for 125 years? There would be no MLB without owners, just as there would be no baseball without players. Free agency and agents are not essential to the game. Agents have made some aspects of baseball better and have hurt the game in other respects.
MLB is a monopoly. As we have seen clearly whenever a team goes up for sale, there is a never-ending supply of potential ownership groups for sports franchises. They are easily replaced.
What you cannot replace is the tiny fraction of people in the world, about 1 thousand total, that have the skills to play baseball at the MLB level at any given time.
But you, apparently, either haven’t read the entire thread or didn’t follow it.
It started with people ripping Boras without qualification or nuance as being so horrible for the game.
My response to disagree and point out the positives of his job and career came across to you as a “fan boy situation.”
Strange.
@websoulsurfer: Thank you very much.
I think people on here have a lot of animosity toward Boras and what he does for his clients because most or all of us tried to play when we were younger, and we’re seriously jealous that we can’t do what these thousand or so players can.
How much does he pay you to defend him?
Boras burner account.
Hey iverbure, your village called. They want their idiot back, so you’ll have to go.
Fortunately, stupidity is not a crime, so you are free to do so.
Safe travels.
@web, so in your world, because of the ‘unlimited’ supply of maybe 100s of millionaires that can buy (and more importantly run) sports teams, they are not ‘essential’ to baseball? How does this not apply to the 1000s of ball players where many are consistently replaced every year? There is also an ‘unlimited’ supply of them. Both groups as an entity are essential, but neither group of the existing people (current players and owners) are essential as they are ALL replaceable. Let’s have some balance here in this discussion. Heck, even Blue Bore, who admits to being jealous of existing players, could get a shot as a replacement player. Well based on his collection of posts here, maybe not.
Ah bs. Take Rodriguez. How many ws wins did Texas have with Alex Rodriguez. Even bankrupted the franchise under owner Tom hicks and aroid was taking illegal substances to live up to the contract.
You do sound a lot like Scott Boras’ PR agent 90% of the time bro.
There are 735 billionaires in the U.S. 24.5 million millionaires. 97,287 worth $50 million. 34,507 worth $100 million. Groups investing in buying a team are made up of many multi-millionaires. They are plentiful. It’s easy to put together a group of them to buy a team as evidenced by how many try to do so every time a team is for sale.
If you expand that to the world, there are 2540 billionaires including 3 that are minority partners in the Padres.
Because it’s a monopoly, investing in an MLB team is a guaranteed return. Top notch ROI. Every single team that has been put up for sale has had multiple groups that had the money to buy the team.
Players are not plentiful. There are about 1,000 on the planet, not just the US, with the skills to play at the MLB level at any one time. You cannot replace them.
@web, your take is insane. Almost anyone can play baseball. Yes there are 1k men who play it at the highest level/ability, but you absolutely can replace them. Players are plentiful. The quality might suffer substantially, but you could easily fill MLB rosters with just about anyone. Maybe we would even get more ‘diversity’ if you just got rid of that mean ‘meritocracy’ or baseball ‘gender bias’. Is there also a gender pay gap in baseball?
Also, being a monopoly (which is in itself a dubious charge), a guaranteed return? It isn’t. Please take some economy classes.
Dennis, #1 – No one is going to see baseball games and paying MLB money to see an inferior product. How do I know? Look at minor league attendance and pricing.
There are about 1000 people in the world at any time that can play baseball at the MLB level and 720 jobs. That is it. It’s one of the most finite skillsets in the world.
There are thousands of billionaires in the world. There hundreds of thousands of people with a net worth of more than $50 million.
There are only 30 teams. EVERY single team that has gone up for sale has immediately had multiple groups bidding to buy it. The Angels had 5 before Moreno pulled them off the market. The Nationals had 6. The Marlins, who are one of the lowest revenue tams in MLB, had 3 that were vetted and allowed to bid.
There are not multiple players with a high enough level of skills waiting to play for each of the 720 openings in the major leagues. Yes, there are that many players in the minors and foreign leagues, but the vast majority do not have the level of skill to play in the majors. Of the 3600 players in the minors, the NPB, and the KBO, about 10% of them will play in the majors. Not multiples per opening. 10%. Please Google it – “what percentage of minor league players make it to MLB”
So, it’s much easier to replace an owner than a player.
NO team has sold for less than it was purchased for. even when adjusted for inflation. The return has been 100% or greater on each of the sales this century.
If you want insane, take a look at your post and compare it with the reality.
@Dennis Boyd: The owners tried that in 1995 in their nefarious attempt to break the MLBPA and force a salary cap down the players’ throats.
The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) ruled that they had failed to bargain in good faith and engaged in illegal labor practices by trying to hire non-union replacement workers, forcing the end of the strike and return to work under the terms of the expired CBA.
Nobody is above the labor laws.
Ah my favorite phrases on a baseball board have now been uttered by you: “fair share” and “nobody is above the law”. The problem is these are very subjective terms and certain people use them to bludgeon everyone else if they don’t agree with their opinion on what these mean. Coming next is “right/wrong side of history”.
Your telling of events regarding the strike are essentially accurate, but the bias dripping from your comments are my issue. Anyone could consider another group against them as ‘nefarious’, or maybe they just want the best outcome for what they think is the right path. I guess you and your ilk are just on the “right side of history” and the evil owners are on not. Like it or not MLB is not what it is without players AND owners. With just players it’s rec league.
Yes, without the stars, baseball would be much cheaper, but still entertaining to some including me. I’m not a sycophant for owners, I just want people that ‘hate’ owners (these people often reflexively also likely hate ‘the rich’). I just want people to understand that these evil, nefarious people are also necessary for the MLB we have today.
And finally, you are not understanding my point about replacement. It is obviously easier to replace players as the get replaced DAILY, while ownership changes are much more rare. Even replacing a star is easier than replacing ownership (name your favorite last trade). MLB is a business beyond just a bunch of people playing baseball. Sorry, but if you want all these ‘irreplaceable’ stars to get the money they are getting, you need those evil rich people to pay them.
@Dennis Boyd: My ilk? What is my ilk?
If my ilk means thinking it was wrong for the owners to cancel the World Series, which not even WWII had prevailed to do, while cynical, two-faced Bud Selig out of one side his mouth promised his fellow owners that he would get them a salary cap while out of the other side talking about how terrible a thing it was that the World Series wasn’t played, then I am guilty as charged.
And proud of it.
If my ilk means thinking it was wrong for the owners to attempt to subvert the collective bargaining process by refusing to negotiate, illegally hiring replacement labor, and trying to reach a bargaining impasse so they could, as they fallaciously believed, unilaterally impose a salary cap system, then I am guilty as charged.
And proud of it.
If my ilk means thinking that all of the above was a grave disservice to, if not the players, the fans who love and support the game, then I am guilty as charged.
And proud of it.
The corollary, of course, is that you and your ilk were actually OK with all of these things.
I have no idea how you can, in good conscience, believe that and live with yourself.
And, BTW, I don’t hate the rich. Just dishonesty and lying about true motivation.
If you actually believe that lower costs for management would translate to lower prices for consumers (fans), then you’re beyond naive.
Oil Can, go back to the bottle. You are either A) insane B) short bus level of stupid or C) an ignorant troll.
Players do NOT get replaced daily with other players of the same talent level and you WON’T pay MLB prices to watch minor league talent.
Doesn’t help that seemingly every big Boras contract the Padres sign looks horrific once the ink is dry IE: Hosmer, Bogaerts.
How is Bogaerts contract bad? The AAV is $25 million and he put up $40 million worth of performance in what was an injury filled year for him. Even injured, he was the 7th best SS in the game. At age 35 in year 6 of his deal, at normal age regression for SS, he should still be giving the Padres enough performance to provide a small surplus value.
Bottom line is the Padres get 6 or 7 seasons of surplus value and eat a few years at the very back end and get to have him at $7-9 million less AAV than the SS at the top of the market.
That’s not Boras’ fault. If I were looking for a gig, I’d be talking to Preller, Cohen and Cashman.
Did preller conduct this media session via zoom as well?
I think he’s gone. And yes it’s about money and the Friars lack of.
Seidler is worth $3 billion. The team is worth $2 billion. Alfredo Helu Harp and Carlos Slim Helu are minority partners in the team. The Padres just started a $1.5 billion development next to the park. The Padres went from revenue sharing receiving team to a revenue sharing paying team this season. That means revenue of about $440-450 million. They drew 3.2 million fans, sold out a league leading 59 games, and have already sold-out season tickets for next season. The Padres have money.
What is lacking is common sense on your part.
But sense is not common.
@websoulsurfer
What each owner is worth is not relevant. Its not the team’s money. What the valuation of the team is only applies to two things; How much they may get should they sell it, and how much debt banks may allow them to get in. Neither should come into the discussion of paying day to day expenses. Renovations, absolutely. To make payroll? Absolutely not! Revenue simply refers to the money coming in. It does not make any statement about profitability. No matter how much comes in, if more is going out, that’s called a loss. My apologies to those of you that have taken a basic business course that posting this was necessary.
Why would you say its not relevant.? Especially when Seidler said that “you can’t take it with you” and has been quoted in the local media as saying he wants the Padres to have the funding to win even if he dies.
The Padres didn’t take a loan to pay payroll. The last check players get is on Spetember 15th and the loan was funded on September 18th or after. So it wasn’t for payroll. Not much other baseball operations expenses still to be paid that late either. Only a few more home games. All total expenses for putting on a game are less than $200k per game according to what we learned from the Braves financial releases. So it wasn’t for that regardless of what the media said.
Revenue is money coming in. That much of what you said is true. Money going out was $258 million for ACTUAL year end 40 man player payroll (not CBT because that is based on AAV, not what was paid out), another $20 million in CBT fines, about $17 million in benefits and retirement, and about $130-135 million for all non-baseball operations expenses.
That means that for putting the team on the field and putting on the home games, the Padres are not losing money. That is exactly what Greupner said. He is the CEO and I tend to believe that he knows WTF he is talking about when it comes to the team’s money.
Now the Padres have other expenses. They are spending $20 million rebuilding the Park at the Park (I won’t call it Gallagher Square). They are about to start a large development at Tailgate Park that will cost a total of $1.5 billion to build over the next few years. Its supposed to break ground early next year. They may even have to pay their next manager a bit more than they were expecting after Counsell got $8 million per year.
But none of those are short term expenses. They plan those things out years in advance. Much like the executives quotes in the articles about the loan said that the loan was planned out in advance and taken out for an expense that they anticipate happening later this year.
So no losses. My apologies that you have never actually run a business and have only taken basic business course and have not actually paid attention to what is going on with the Padres.
Seidler is not worth $3B. the private equity firm he’s in charge of controls $3B,
sports.yahoo.com/18-richest-mlb-owners-2023-175352…
The private equity firm he is the head of has over $5 billion in assets under investment. sepfunds.com/
His personal net worth is estimated at between $3 billion and $3.5 billion.
latimes.com/sports/story/2022-02-28/mlb-billionair…
sportskeeda.com/baseball/news-what-padres-owner-pe…
franchisesports.co.uk/peter-seidler-net-worth-busi…
Padres are worth $1.75. billion according to Forbes before this season, a publication that has underestimated the sales price of every team that went up for sale, and he owns more than 50% of the Padres.
Of course its relevant. MLB teams are all owned by a group of partners. If the team spend more than the revenue they take in, then they have to issue a cash call to the partners to pay the bills.
If the ownership group does not have the money, then you have situations like Hicks with the Rangers. So it very much is relevant how much the owners are worth.
The Padres had no trouble paying the day-to-day bills, regardless of what the media would like you to believe so that you will click on their website. The fact is that all player payroll, the largest part of day-to-day bills for any team, was already paid before the Padres were able to take out the loan. MLB didn’t even approve the loan until 3 days after payroll was already in players hands.
If you read the articles about the situation, you know that the loan was planned far in advance and taken out to cover bills that are expected later in the year. There ARE no player payroll bills that come due between September 15th and opening day.
Maybe both a refresher course in business basics and a few more advanced courses are in order for you.
Maybe both a refresher course in business basics and a few more advanced courses are in order for you.
======================
Then why take out a loan and pay interest?
My investments made between 5.4% and 21% this year. Seidler makes his money from investing money. He owns a private equity firm. I would bet he does better than I do on my investments.
The loan the Padres took out was reportedly at 2.9% interest.
If you have a capital outlay upcoming for a development you are doing, would you take money that is making you 5-20% out of those investments to fund it or would you borrow money at 2.9%.
The Padres have two major development projects that are either ongoing or about to start. Gallagher Square, the area at Petco that used to be called Park at the Park, is undergoing a $20 million upgrade. And Tailgate Park which is a $1.5 billion multi-use development with housing, retail and office space, a hotel, open space, and 2700 parking spaces. cisterra.com/tailgatepark The $35.1 million the Padres are buying that land from the city for comes due before the end of the year.
The loan the Padres took out was reportedly at 2.9% interest.
===============================
Why would anyone lend out at 2.9% when the cost of money is higher?
Ask the lender. We know it was a private lender, not an institutional lender.
@websufer – Then why did they borrow 50 mil and try to get a 100 mil ? I was all on that logic until the loan came out
Perhaps because they wanted to use it to spend big on a free agent this year. Maybe 50m down on a Soto or Ohtani deal. Who knows but clearly they didn’t need 100m, soo who is to say why they even need 50m.
Also Seidler has said recently he and the other owner would have no problem doing a cash call. So the padres are fine, they are testing the boundaries of where their limits are.
Big whiffa, why would the media say that the loan was for payroll, when all payroll was already paid before the loan was taken out?
MLB said that most teams take loans like this every year. The execs quoted in the article said that the loan was planned in advance and that it was for expenses that are expected to be incurred later this year. So its not payroll related.
Shh nobody wants to hear your facts.
especially the media reading these facts
The loan was not for payroll or even game related expenses. That we know for a fact by when it was taken out. Then in the articles about the loan the Padres executives quoted said it was taken out for expenses that are expected to come later in the year. They haven’t even happened yet and there are no MLB payroll related expenses between September 15th and opening day.
Neither of us know exactly what the loan was for, but we do know what it wasn’t for, payroll.
I’d like to see him long term wind up in Detroit. Probably not this season, but he would be a great FA addition for ’25 and beyond when they’re in a position to truly be competitive. He’s an incredible talent.
Yuck, no thank you. I don’t want anymore bad free agent mega contracts on the Tigers, especially if its a guy like Soto. He’s not a culture guy or a leader and that doesn’t age well. Bryce Harper and Mookie Betts types embrace the city, play their guts out, and back up the skipper. These are the types who I don’t mind the Tigers paying. But Juan “Quietly Only Cares About Himself” Soto types can get their paychecks from teams that think you win with stats.
It’s like a new Cabrera contract only instead of netting you a world series and a lot of early competitive years he just hangs around with a base of players that aren’t prepared for a deep playoff run.
A new Cabrera contract??? Juan Soto is literally 8 years younger than Cabrera was when his 8 yr/240m contract started.
Hardly apples to apples.
Players peak between 26 and 30 years old. We have not even seen the best of Juan Soto.
and he’d be a huge sink of money that, unlike Cabrera, would not be surrounded by players that can challenge for a world series run. We can be pretty certain he’ll be good right now and in the near future, but who knows what injuries or general performance the more distant future will bring.
On the other hand, the Tigers are in one of the 2 worst divisions in baseball, so if they could genuinely support him with more acquisitions maybe take a shot.
Ejemp2006 He’s not a culture guy or a leader… who cares? How many leaders does a team need? So, if it’s not him, so what? He “”Only Cares About Himself””… also doesn’t matter. Baseball is an individual sport where a player has no influence on the hitting of any other player on his team. “Teams that think you win with stats”… what does that even mean? The guy will be coming into his age 25 season and he’s a great bet to be a consistent top 10 WAR player in the league year after year. He makes any team way better. Of all FA’s anyone could hand out long term deals to, Soto is one of the absolute best bets in the game today in my view.
I think the concern with him being about himself is it will negatively impact the rest of the clubhouse. You want players that motivate and bring out the best in one another to enrich the team with positivity and a motivating team chemistry
So pick him for your fantasy team.
Yanks2 I think that entire concept is a fallacy. Plenty of guys didn’t get along with each other but played side by side for years, it doesn’t matter.
The Yankees are the perfect example of that.
And the great A’s teams of the early 1970s.
Blue Baron: Those dynastic A’s Teams were some of the best ever!
Reggie and many others have stated that if Charlie Finley had not broken up that dynasty when free agency was just beginning, the A’s could have won many more World Series Championships.
Jackson said those A’s teams were the best teams he every played on, much better than the Yankees teams he played on that won titles also.
Preller Yearly Budget 500 Mil.
When you already have $101 million dollars on the books for 2033 it doesn’t look too good at getting a long term deal done. Trade Soto for whatever you can get for him this winter or ride or die for one last season with him but there is probably no way that Soto is a Padre in 2025
Just don’t be the angels. Don’t be stupid
Just don’t be the angels. Don’t be stupidity think it’s a really good possibility that Seattle pushes all in and then signs him to an extension. They won’t trade for a one year rental. So contingent on an extension type of deal.
There are no contingent on extension deals in MLB. Players can not be traded for 6 months after signing an extension.
Seattle makes sense as a one year rental. They’d recoup part of the prospect cost with the compensatory pick they’d get in 2025 after Soto rejects a QO.
I’ve been saying Seattle is the perfect fit for Soto, but I don’t know if they want him badly enough to cough up some good starting pitching. As a Padres fan I’d love to see them get Bryan Woo and Bryce Miller – two young back of the rotation starters, Kelenic and put him in LF (he might need a change of scenery) and Prelander Berroa for the pen.
Seattle fans will say that is too much for one year of Soto, but with Castillo, Gilbert and Kirby, they have a dominant top three. And with Hancock and Gonzales, they would have a strong rotation.
hey, everyone is the perfect fit for Soto, because he’s Soto. Just like everyone would be the perfect fit Acuna, Ohtani, Tatis, Betts, Harper, etc…
C’Bad Jeff
I’ve been saying Seattle is the perfect fit for Soto,
========================
They should go after Ohtani. Of all the teams I’ve (briefly) analyzed, I’d say that Seattle is the team that could mostly likely pick up another 500,000 in attendance. That has to be an easy $50M in annual revenue.
Average ticket price there is $91 so that is a pretty good bet in increase in revenue
C’Bad
Baseball Trade Values has Soto with a trade value of about $23 million
They also have Woo at about $25 million and Miller at $26 million
Trading that, and more, is too much for Soto
Signed – not a Seattle fan
Those trade values for Soto and others are way off.
They rate some unproven minor league prospects that have never
even had a cup of coffee in the majors higher than some of the majors superstars?! Not buying it!
SF0000
Ah yes. One way to tell if you’re dealing with someone who is reasonable and rational is seeing how they deal with something that contradicts their beliefs.
Immediately saying “they’re wrong, I’m right” is a sign you’re not dealing with a reasonable and rational person
“They rate some unproven minor league prospects that have never
even had a cup of coffee in the majors higher than some of the majors superstars?! ”
Give an example of this
Also a reminder that NO player’s future is proven. A track record doesn’t guarantee success.
If you want to put your track record up against BTV’s I’ll be happy to see it
You shouldn’t buy it either . BTV is garbage. Soto had a 5.5 WAR. That is over $50 million in value.
That worked out so well for the Red Sox, didn’t it?
It’s stupid to trade future HOF players that are just 24-25 years old. Seidler is not stupid.
Soto and Tatis make a tandem of 25-year-old superstars in 2024. The best possible outcome is to extend Soto and have those two playing in the Padres outfield for more than a decade together. The Padres had revenue of $440-450 million in 2023. They can afford to keep those kids together.
Yes, trading Mookie did work out, because they got value for a player that refused to sign with them. It beat only getting a 4th round pick for him and watching him walk. Stop referring to revenue like it means anything. Chrysler had much higher revenue when they declared Bankruptcy.
I agree web. Since the trade the Red Sox have had losing records in 3 out 4 seasons. With 3 DH’s on the roster and no starting pitchers with an ERA under 4 last season, its not likely they will get better without spending big in 2024 and going way over the CBT. The curse of the Bettsino.
It killed the fanbase in Boston and the team had had just one winning season since he was traded away.
Where do we think he winds up if he gets traded this offseason?
NY, Boston, LA, Seattle, Texas. It’s anyone’s guess
A lot depends on who has the capital and asking price too. Who has the most capital, farm system wise?
Most capital farm system is probably the dodgers but their focus will most likely be on Ohtani and I don’t see a quick signing of ohtani by any team that will drag out leaving less time for the dodgers to focus on a Juan Soto trade.
I think the dodgers will either spend or trade big this year as 2023 they were not the best team in the league record wise. I think they kinda like the idea of being the best record and deepest team
Every team in baseball has the prospect capital to trade for Soto. First, with Soto a 1 year rental, the return won’t be anywhere near what the Nat’s got. But even the 30th ranked farm has enough interesting prospects. It just depends on whether they think it worth it to eat into their prospect capital that much, which would reduce the field to win-now teams without an extension guarantee.
The return will be similar to what the Dodgers gave up for 1 year of Mookie Betts. A young MLB player that has 5+ years of control and was an elite prospect, another top 50 prospect, and at least one other near MLB ready prospect in that team’s top 15-20.
Hey don’t count out the Phillies if they don’t get Trout, thinking the Mets are a possibility, if Soto reaches free agency in 2025 for sure. The Yankees aren’t likely to trade for him without a 72 hour window for an extension lst.
Boras is not into 72 hour windows. He will negotiate at the end of ’24 for his client.
You left off San Fran.
The Pods aren’t trading to SF or LA.
I hope you mean Mets when you say NY. If not then I disagree because it’s even harder to picture Soto in pinstripes than it was picturing Harper in them.
With that being said I could definitely not only see him getting traded to the Mets but also them giving him an insane extension like the J Rodriguez one the Mariners handed out
I think Juan Soto value in a trade is lower than people realize as it is going take a good amount of prospects to get him and it is a guarantee that he is going test the free agent market. I don’t see any team being able to trade for him and then get him signed. The teams that could afford to sign him dodgers; Mets; maybe the giants are most likely just going wait that 12 months and get him for cash deal
You don’t think a deal could happen on the team he’s traded too? If he does get traded.
Extremely unlikely at this point with free agency only a year away. Maybe a year or two ago but not now.
The return in any trade for Soto will be similar to what the Dodgers gave up for 1 year of Mookie Betts. A young MLB player that has 5+ years of control and was an elite prospect, another top 50 prospect, and at least one other near MLB ready prospect in that team’s top 15-20.
You left out the Sox dumped price and a huge amount of his salary. That money is basically worth another top 50 prospect
He won’t be, so you don’t have to think about it.
Make it look like you plan to keep him to make sure the offers are more enticing
Yea, that’s a clear win. Pay someone market value or flip them for a large amount of cheap young talent… there’s plenty of fish in the sea.
Less than 1 in 5 prospects that are ranked in the top 100 become even league average. About 1 in 100 put up a 5.5 WAR season or higher.
So trading Soto is not likely to net prospects that can replace his production.
I agree. I’m here, stupidly i guess, looking for trade rumors. Padres have done an excellent job keeping his trade value sky high
Overrated player. Not worth the cash he is asking for.
Soto is 24 years old so will get a 14-15 year deal. He has averaged nearly 6 WAR and has a career 157 OPS+ which he topped last season. He is conservatively worth $52 million per season.
So in what world is he overrated?
That’s what the saber-nerds evaluate him as but as was seen with Lindor’s WAR season, it means nothing to the team if you don’t use it to contribute to success of the team.
Ok, that may be the dumbest comment of the day and there have been some doozies. WAR is how you MEASURE contribution to WINNING. Its literally in the name of the stat.
I think some changes need to happen with WAR in terms of evaluating getting an RBI hit with 2 out and tied in the 9th versus getting a double in the 6th in a 20-2 blowout win. Your player isn’t adding more wins in those situations. I know they’re working on it but WAR is not that great of an evaluator.
OY
WAR is specifically designed to be context neutral in order to put all players on a level playing field
Using WAR, two players who each put up the exact same batting line in the exact same order would be valued the same (assuming the same defense, base running, etc). Hopefully you can see the sense in that.
Looking at it through context dependecy, two players who put up the exact same line in the exact same order would not be valued the same based on what the opposing team and their teammates did.
There are reasons to look too context dependent stats.
Soto led the Padres in all of those things you mentioned York. Your hatred of him is misplaced. Those are things he excels at.
Overall – .275/.410/.519/.930
RISP – .299/.439/.576/1.016
2 Outs and RISP – .299/.439/.576/1.016
Late and Close – .303/.460/.592/1.052
Tie Game – .286/.405/.617/1.022
9th inning – .333/.444/.556/1.000
Extra innings – .500/.625/.750/1.375
Notice that he did better in all those situations you claim he is not good at.
Since you don’t understand it, I didn’t use WAR, I used simple things you would understand like a slashline.
Soto, along with Strasburg, won a WS for the Nationals 9 hits, 3 homers, 7 RBIs and 6 runs scored in 7 games. So the rumors about him not being clutch in big games is highly misguided.
B88
“the rumors about him not being clutch in big games is highly misguided.”
Unless clutch doesn’t exist. Then it’s perfectly guided
Saying he’s unclutch would also be misguided.
Existing is overrated, unexisting is Miss Guided. Dysclutchiness is the unspoken theme
B88
The point is, there’s no solid evidence saying that clutch or unclutch exists and can be seen in the results of, in this case, a couple dozen plate appearances.
Everything can be explained by random variation
Thus anyone claiming Soto (or anyone else) is clutch or unclutch is misguided.
f-hok. I just listed his WS stats in 7 big games as ironic counterpoint to the statement in a post above that Soto was not clutch. I agree that any judgement of a hitter in baseball especially should be based upon quite a few hundreds of ABs. His career RISP numbers are very good though, or unbad as Karl Popper might say, or not explained solely by non-linear dynamics as Edward Lorenz might exclaim.
@filihok
Wins Above Replacement (WAR) concept seriously distorts the evaluation of player performance in Major League Baseball by systematically understating the value of players with relatively short careers and overstating the value of players with relatively long careers (as measured by plate appearances) and are consistent with the findings of Adam Darowski. It is recommended that the evaluation of player performance be shown using values based on the Wins Above Average (WAA) concept and that use of the WAR concept be restricted to its original focus on replacing a major league player with a minor league player.
@Pads Fans
Use of the WAR concept should be restricted to its original focus on replacing a major league player with a minor league player.
Clutch doesn’t exist. You’re either able to hit or your not. It’s another baseball myth that coaches and fans like to promote.
Everything Adam has ever written including papers for SABR are included here – hallofstats.com/
Here is what they wrote in the WAR explainer on BR, the publication he currently works for.
baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained.shtml
I would suggest reading it.
He said “The computation of WAR starts with WAA”, so by definition the results they come to are not different, they are just based on a different scale. One scaled on a replacement level player. In other words what would happen if the team brought up the average top level minor league player that season. The other is scaled on the average major league player that season. BOTH are accurate in comparing players.
Soto’s 5.5 WAR was exactly the same percentage higher than the MLB average of 2.0 WAR this season as his WAA was above the average WAA.
What I said stands.
Here is a presentation you may want to read also – dropbox.com/s/ukkz4g4y1rorxi5/2018-03-WAR-Explaine…
Adam uses WAR constantly on @baseballtwit
YOU said that Soto was not clutch. I posted the stats he produced in the situations YOU referenced. You are wrong.
@Pads Fans
I made no claim of him being or not being clutch because a clutch player is a myth perpetuated by fans and media. I just said he was overrated.
@Pads Fans
An average player in the MLB is different from a replacement player from the minors. So, focusing on WAA makes more sense. Soto provides 5 more wins above replacement minor leaguers and only 3 wins above an average MLB player. A bit overrated to say the least.
B88
“f-hok. I just listed his WS stats in 7 big games as ironic counterpoint to the statement in a post above that Soto was not clutch.”
But it doesn’t work that way. Since that doesn’t show that he’s clutch (due to the insufficient sample), it can’t show that he’s not-clutch.
Flipping a coin once doesn’t prove that it’s weighted, nor does it prove it’s not weighted. You’d need lots more flips
Exact same thing
OY
“Wins Above Replacement (WAR) concept seriously distorts the evaluation of player performance in Major League Baseball by systematically understating the value of players with relatively short careers and overstating the value of players with relatively long careers (as measured by plate appearances) and are consistent with the findings of Adam Darowski. It is recommended that the evaluation of player performance be shown using values based on the Wins Above Average (WAA) concept and that use of the WAR concept be restricted to its original focus on replacing a major league player with a minor league player.”
There are uses for both, sure
But which goalpost am I shooting at?
Your original complaint was about WAR not being context dependent. WAA is the EXACT same thing, just with a different baseline.
OY
“An average player in the MLB is different from a replacement player from the minors. So, focusing on WAA makes more sense. Soto provides 5 more wins above replacement minor leaguers and only 3 wins above an average MLB player. A bit overrated to say the least.”
Non sequitur
3 WAA and 5 WAR is the EXACT SAME THING.
Nothing changes about how a player is rated using either of those systems. Especially not a player who, like Soto, has only played a few years.
It’s like saying “man, it’s freezing” when it’s 0 C outside, and then saying “Naw, it’s warm, it’s 273 Kelvin”
Overrated or not, I’ll happily take Soto on a 12-year deal even if it means eating the last 4th of the contract in his decline years
A team would be really foolish for trading for Soto without an extension lst. Soto is definitely worth about $500 million or more, he’s definitely a game changer for a contender out there.
@Captain, he can not be traded for 6 months if he signs an extension per MLB rules
Soto has not been a “game changer” for the Padres.
He did not help them reach the World Series and/or win it.
Soto He tanked after the trade in ’22 in the 2nd half that dragged the team down.
The Padres fell so far behind in ’23, that they had to finish really strong even to
get to 500. Some clutch, sustained hitting all year by Soto would have helped the Padres make the playoffs.
When the team needed a player to carry it on its collective back,(like Machado did in ’22), Soto was, clearly not that guy.
Padding your stats when the team in in 4th place does not count,
Making a run for it at the end of the season was too little too late.
Soto is, clearly, overrated.
Baseball is a “team game” Soto plays for himself and to pad his stats. The Padres biggest failing last year was losing 1 run and close games and some of that was on Soto for his lack of clutch hitting in crucial situations.
Not producing with men on base and then hitting with the bases empty or when the game is not on the line or already won or lost is not a clutch player.
You are clearly brain dead.
Not me, just your complete lack of an argument falls flat.
Soto with RISP:
.299/.439/.576
You know folks can look these things up right?
One thing they teach you in HS and College is that you can cherry pick and use statistics to prove just about any point you want to prove.
BUY, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO COLD, HARD FACTS, REAL RESULTS, WATCHING THE GAMES, EVALUATING THE SITUATIONS, HOW THE PLAYER(S) RESPOND IN PRESSURE SITUATIONS,, HARD FACTS AND REAL RESULTS
SOTO DID NOT PASS THE EYE WITNESS, EYEBALLS TESTS.
POLL PADRES FANS WHO ACTUALLY WATCHED AND WITNESSED THE GAMES AND YOU WILL FIND THEM IN AGREEMENT WITH ME..
When the Padres trade a huge chunk of their highly rated farm system for Soto, they believed they hype about Soto and only traded because they expected the same kind of results that Soto was a part of in the Nats run to the World Series title.
SO FAR, SOTO HAS BEEN UNABLE TO DUPLICATE HIS PENNANT, PLAYOFFS AND WORLD SERIES RUN AND TEAM WIN IN DC FOR THE SAN DIEGO PADRES.
THAT PROVES BOTH OF MY POINTS:
1) Baseball is a “Team Game” ONE /OR of a handful of “Super Stars”
does not guarantee your team a World Series Title/Championship.
2) SOTO IS VASTLY OVERRATED.
Soto’s Defense is average or below average.
Soto has a weak arm compared to Tatis Jr ’23 Gold Glove winner R
and that is why Soto was moved from RF to LF.
Soto is a streaky hitter and goes hot and cold.
Soto put up decent stats in ’23 , but not enough in situations that lead to the Padres winning games and getting into the playoffs.
The Padres were picked to win the NL West by most of the MLB experts pre season ’23.
Soto, so far, has not proven that he can “carry the Padres”
and that he was worth all the players he was traded for in ;’22
In ’22,Machado carried the Padres to the playoffs, and past 2 teams to the NLCS.
Soto was basically a non factor in the 2nd half of ’22 and in the playoffs
IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCHED THE GAMES.
THER REAL STORY IS NOT ONLY IN STATS, YOU HAVE TO WATCH THE GAMES, THE SITUATIONS, HOW SOTO PERFORMS. IS SOTO A TEAM PLAYER. CAN SOTO PERFORM IN CLUTCH SITUATIONS WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON AND THE GAME IS ON THE LINE?!
WATCHING THE GAMES, SOTO DID NOT INDICATE THAT HE WAS EVEN AS CAPABLE AS MACHADO IN THE CLUTCH.
Baseball is a “team game”
==========================
Not really. This is not like a RB or WR stepping in front of someone 40 pounds heavier to advance another player.
Yes, baseball is a “team game” Those that win Championships must play like a team.. Those, the play for their own personal stats oftentimes, their teams fall short.
Some Hall of Fame players spent their entire careers on last place and second division teams.’
No matter how good you are individually, if you don’t have a “team effort” and enough players pulling in the same direction, then your team won’t be champions.
Overall – .275/.410/.519/.930
RISP – .299/.439/.576/1.016
2 Outs and RISP – .299/.439/.576/1.016
Late and Close – .303/.460/.592/1.052
Tie Game – .286/.405/.617/1.022
9th inning – .333/.444/.556/1.000
Extra innings – .500/.625/.750/1.375
So maybe the other guy doesn’t know squat. You killed him, just bury him already.
Soto in WS stats: 9 hits, 3 homers, 7 RBIs and 6 runs scored in 7 games.. Yeah, he’s a real choker in the big games
In the 1 World Series his team played in ?!
He had 1 good playoffs run?!
How many other playoffs runs was he involved in?
If he is such a good player, then why did he TANK IN THE 2ND HALF OF ‘
22 AFTER HE WAS TRADED TO THE PADRES;
When the Padres made the playoffs in ’22, (with no real help from Soto who batted .230 with only 5 home runs after the trade.
Why didn’t Soto
“take charge” and carry his team to the World Series and to the World Series title?!
Soto did not.
Because Soto is not that kind of player, that is why.
If Soto was that kind of Championship/elite player, then why didn’t Soto carry the Padres to the playoffs in ’23 ?!
Soto is not that kind of “winning”, clutch and championship player that is why.
Machado showed he was that kind of player in ’22.
Padres do not make the playoffs and advance in ’22
without Machado’s clutch, winning hits.
Machado has proven himself to be a “winning player” who can carry his team to the playoffs and win in the playoffs.
Soto may have produced for the Nats in the playoffs and WS.
But, Soto DID NOT PRODUCE IN THAT SAME WAY FOR THE PADRES IN ’22 AND ’23 .
Machado filled that role in ’22
baseball-reference.com/players/s/sotoju01.shtml#ba…
There is no way Soto is worth 33M per especially after his lackluster first season with the Padres.
I totally disagree with you. Soto is a $40-45 million a year player. We’ll definitely find out later, for ones that don’t think so.
He is gonna get 40M AAV for sure
Soto doesn’t even have 1/2 the impact of a Yordan Alvarez and you want to pay him 2x as much?…Soto is probably not as good or as impactful on both sides of the ball as either Kyle Tucker or Adolis Garcia(Don’t even ask about Mookie B.)and they won’t be sniffing 45 M anytime soon. It’s all in what someone is willing to pay, but Juan Soto is not even a top 10 player in MLB and due to his defensive and baserunning limitations, is more a really good, but not great player.
Soto is 2 years younger than Alvarez and produced a higher WAR in 2023 and over the last 3 seasons. That means he had a higher impact.
baseball-reference.com/players/s/sotoju01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/a/alvaryo01.shtml
@MLB, they won’t be sniffing that amount as they are both years away from free agency. If they keep producing they will definitely be up there in AAV when they sign FA deals.
It’s hilarious that you are trying to make a case comparing team controlled players who do not even play the same position. An absolute stretch in doing so.
You put Yordan Alvarez on last year’s Pads and they make the playoffs, because he’s that good. Juan Soto is NOT that kind of good, as the Pads team results have shown.
Juan Soto will be a DH in 2 or 3 yrs. Aren’t you the same guy who wanted to pay Vlade Guerrero 500 M 2 years ago?..Your screen name looks similar to a guy who thought ONE trick pony Vlade was the next coming yrs ago.
Why would he be a DH in a couple years. He’s 24 and rated slightly above average for LF?
You put Alvarez on the Padres and he will still have less impact on winning. WAR is the measure of a player’s impact on winning games hence WINS over replacement. Since 2019 Soto has 25.6 WAR vs 18.2 for Alvarez. Its not close. Soto has more impact on his team winning.
Alvarez already is a DH for 2/3 of the games every season.
Juan Soto is a poor defensive OF. Which diluted advance statistics says otherwise?
Some fool might pay him in that range, You can try to camouflaged his deficiencies and faults as a player, but it will continue to show up for all to see in games.
A lot of players have been paid more than they are worth and it is not really justified by their long term performance.
Other players are paid for past performance that they are neve able to duplicate .Examples abound in M:LB,
Soto has no faults or deficiencies at the plate He is not a good fielding OF. Overall he is one of the top 10-12 players in MLB.
Soto will be 25, peak in MLB is 26-30 years old, and he has 6-7 peak level years ahead of him. So he will get better and his decline will be from a level that few ever see. By 35 he will still be a All Star level player or better. His FUTURE value is enormous. Teams can ONLY pay on past performance because A – they don’t have the crystal ball you claim to have and B – performance based contracts are not allowed in the CBA.
His VALUE as a FA would be measured at $9.25 million per point of WAR based on the 2023 cost of a point of WAR in FA. I will let you do the math. Hint, he won’t be PAID that much or his 14-15 year contract would be over $700 million.
Do you get tired of being shown you are wrong so much of the time or you so delusional that you actually think you are right?
Yankees can make that deal and it will bite them on their backsides like many other overpay contracts have hurt the Yankees and cost them championships over the last 10 years.
2023 158 OPS+. 5.5 WAR. That is worth about $50 million.
Based on the numbers he’s already put up on his career thus far, I’d happily pay him 60m a year if it meant trading colossal strike out king Aaron Judge to the Padres with his entire salary paid by SD
Dream on!
Padres would never make that deal and would not pay Judge’s entire salary.
Once again, Acee was wrong
Acee is always wrong, and watching the hysteria caused by 1 article was hilarious (and annoying).
We’ve learned that the Pads will do the opposite of what Acee says they need to do
The Padres will do whatever it takes to make the playoffs and win a championship.
If that means trading Soto to fill multiple holes, then they would do that if they received a very generous offer to their liking.
Did Arte Moreno do the right thing by hanging on to Ohtani
and letting him walk out the door for only a draft pick
instead of cashing him in and trading him or a generous package of top young players and prospects?!
Most people are saying NO!
We don’t know that at all.
Acee, obviously, has someone working for the Padres feeding him info
from the Front Office management meetings.
Clearly the Padres, and most Front Offices worth their salt,
run “parallel plans and scenarios”
They have multiple plans laid out depending on how the market develops.
If A happens, then they keep Soto for 1 year and fill in the team around him.
If B happens, then the Padres trade Soto and get young major league ready players back that plug multiple team holes and “win now”..
If C happens, then the Padres have another plan.
If you cannot wrap your mind around multiple valid scenarios, then that is why
you don’t work in a MLB Front Office.
If Acee had people in the FO feeding him information he would at east occasionally be correct about what the Padres will do. The fact is its almost like they are feeding him incorrect info since they consistently do the opposite of what he writes.
The Padres don’t have to “fill the team” around Soto. Have you looked at the roster. The Padres need a backup catcher, a platoon DH, and maybe a better hitting CF. Otherwise they are stacked with far above average players.
The Padres plan is win now. The owner said so. The GM said so.
The GM said only that the Padres are always willing to listen. He didn’t say that Soto was on the market. He DID say that the Padres were better with Soto.
That is why YOU are not working in an MLB FO.
Maybe they can take out another line of credit. Soto will want something comparable to what Tatis and Machado are getting (340-350 million).
If they sign Soto, the Padres will have over one point three billion dollars in long term debt for 4 guys (Soto, Machado, Bogaerts and Tatis).
That’s just nuts!
I’d love to see some analysis of projected average salaries over the next 3, 5, 10 years, and the luxury tax. I think it might be smart to lock these guys in longterm and watch salaries around the league skyrocket with bigger media deals.
For example: the tatis deal is gonna look fantastic over the next several years, and people went crazy over that deal thinking it was an overpay.
The Tatis deal for average annual value looks pretty good now.
The 350M question is whether Soto can stay healthy and play a full schedule in RF at a high level of production for the next 10-12 years.
If yes, then great deal.
If no, then maybe good deal for years he produces and not so good for years he is hurt and/or in decline.
Something catastrophic would have to happen for this to not be a good deal.
The Tatis deal looked good back when it was penned too, not just now. But most here were blabbering about what an overspend it was.
There’s a general sentiment among fans to be outraged by high player salaries. Everyone is screaming bankruptcy for Pads if they sign Soto.
The discrepancy of wealth among teams doesn’t help the game in my opinion. I like that there have been a few smaller market teams in recent years stepping up the spending and making it work financially so it’s not just 3-4 teams every year in the high rent district.. Hope it continues.
Correction, whether Tatis can stay healthy
TG19, Good point. That Harper mega-deal from back in 2018 is looking like a bargain at today’s salaries.
The highest AAV contract in 2013 was $25.7 million.
Justin Verlander, $25,714,286 (2013-19)
Last season it was $43.33 million for Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer.
An increase of roughly 68.5%
So if the top salaries are $43 million today, if salary inflation holds then in 2033 the top salaries will be around $70 million? I my math correct?
Kind of puts things in perspective if it is.
A guy like Tatis at age 34 will be making about half as much as the top FA players in 2033.
If the Padres sign Soto to a 15/504 extension by the end the AAV will be $40 million less than the top salaries of that year?
The $25 million salary that Bogaerts will make in his final season in 2033 will be $45 million less than the top guys?
That just blows me away.
In 2003 the highest paid player was ARod at $22 million. The next highest was Carlos Delgado at $18.75 million and Mo Vaughn at $17.16 million. What was the percentage of increase from those three to Verlander in 2013?
OK, this stuff is fascinating.
This was the context that I thought was missing. Thank you for doing the thought leadership on this. It was just an idea I had – you’re the man!
it’s why more billionaire owners are signing top millionaire players to long-term contracts
TG, if you are talking to me thanks, but I was just trying to do the math after I read Web’s post. I didn’t realize that the increases were that much.
I am all for the players getting fair salaries to share in the profits that they helped create as MLB players.
But, MLB and the players are getting close to that tipping point of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs,
MLB revenues cannot continue to go up forever.
Already, MLB is losing a lot of young fans and families.
Teams are pricing a certain percentage of their fans and families out of their markets to enjoy live games.
I am hearing this in a lot of places including in stadiums where I see games.
MLB attendance rose 6% in 2023.
The average age of those in attendance has went down 1.2 years since 2019.
MLB revenue set another new record in 2023 and is over $12 billion.
SFoooo
“I am hearing this in a lot of places including in stadiums where I see games.”
From big strong guys with tears in their eyes?
No, from some of the brightest minds out there who spend lots of $$ on sporting events.
SF0000
Care to give an example of one of these “brightest minds” that you’re out hobnobbing with at games?
Joe the Plumber
No, I will not betray confidences of people I know and respect for an online chat board.
SF0000
So, no one…
Gotcha
hombre de paja
Soto is going to get closer to $500 million over 14 or 15 years.
Boras reminds me of Drew Rosenhaus in NFL. While he’s still around he’s not as prominent as before. I wish MLb would find a similar path for Boras. He’s ruining the game IMO. I get it great for his clients
dva
“Baseball is dying”
Wow
The taeks are so hot here
And bad. So, so bad.
Right ! I’m looking for trade soto to team X for XYZ return. 150 comments and not one mlb trade rumor. Smh
I read this one on Reddit.
Soto and Ornelas to the Mets for Alonso, Mauricio, Parada, and Hamel.
I had no idea who Hamel was, but I guess he is in AA and has a great slider.
Hope that sates your trade rumor jonesing even if that is not a trade the Padres would accept.
God I miss the days when Jake peavy was made available and people came here with mostly unreasonable but some realistic trade proposals you could argue about.
There’s zero shot Soto doesn’t test the market. So you assess your club and see if you make a playoff run with him. If the answer is no, you trade him. I don’t know why GMs are so cryptic. We all know this…
I don’t think he’s really worth his overall WAR value x cash value of 1 WAR, but he certainly shouldn’t take a massive discount because of perception.
I do wonder about guys like Soto- his WAR and his age back up the idea of him getting this inevitable mega deal and getting a large bump in pay for his final year of arbitration- but I also understand why people seem hesitant to commit to that, whether for one year or for 15 years.
On paper, Soto is, today, worth 15 years/$600M. He just is. Which seems nuts, but that’s the game’s economics today.
But is there any team who’s actually comfortable offering Soto anywhere close to that?
I feel like a lot of teams want to limit a Soto contract to like 13 years/$435.5M- basically $33.5M AAV- which is what he will receive next year anyway and then he will seek a 14-15 year long term free agent deal and he will want a significant raise from $33.5M AAV for that deal.
So the probable deal should be 14 years/$474M- but again- who is going to give that to him, realistically?
I don’t see any team wanting to make that committment.
“On paper, Soto is, today, worth 15 years/$600M. He just is. Which seems nuts, but that’s the game’s economics today”………….You must be getting that straight from Scott Boras because that is completely nuts…..Any Team that payed him anywhere close to that should have their heads examined because Soto is a really good, but not great player. I think there is a strong argument that he is not as impactful a player as guys like Yordan Alvar.ez, Adolis Garcia, Kyle Tucker, Freddie Freeman or Mookie Betts. 99% of Soto’s value is in his bat and these other players are all also offensively gifted and much more well rounded and versatile than he. I think when you start naming the best, most impactful players(or DHs)in MLB, that Juan Soto is not even in the top 10, but could perhaps be in the top 20.
Agreed with all of that but look again at Soto’s .OBP and OPS+ alone and tell me you wouldn’t offer him 15 years 600m?
Mlb fan
LOL
A long term Soto deal will add other Padres deals: Machado, Tatis, Xander, pitchers and that could be a serious problem in 5-7 years that anchors that team down
and forces them to fill out the roster with much lesser players
that may not be enough to make them a playoffs team.
Boras didn’t say that the Padres “signaled a willingness to retain Soto” he said that they would DEFINITELY include Soto in their lineup for 2024.
Why do the writers try to change the narrative to fit a negative conclusion they have already come to? Juan Soto will be a Padre in 2024. Unless the Padres fall far out of contention by the trade deadline, Juan Soto will still be a Padre when they reach the playoffs in 2024.
Envy
Boras is “puffing” which is business and legal parlance for
exaggerating.
Got to hand it to him,
He aggressively advocates for his clients.
However, he is also trying to “pump up:” the market value of his client
for contact negotiations. (also doing his job).
Boras does not work for the Padres and does not write the lineup cards.
Unless, Boras and Soto have a signed, multi year contract with the Padres
then there is no way for Boras, at this point, to even know if Soto
will be in the Padres lineup in ’24 for some, any or all of ’24.
MLB Owners/Executives would be charged with TAMPERING if they made such a statement about another team’s player etc.
Let’s wait and see what happens.
Are any of these posters affiliated/paid by the Padres of Boras’s company?!
It sure sounds like it from some of the comments posted here.
Aren’t they retaining him for 2024 in that case when so many people on here have been adamant they have to trade him?
There goes Boras….driving up the price of hot dogs….
Again….
Ruining the game because today, most rich people don’t have to work hard for thier money…..so they spend money frivolousy.
The investment guys? Privileged. Don’t even contribute anything to our society really.
Ivy Leaguers….you think?
The privileged make.way too much in comparison with the regular Joe…AND…they have no shame, don’t have to see the people they screwed, every Sunday…..
Society will fall apart. Those fks.want to impose soccer on us….
Fk soccer, it’s BORING…..that’s what they are doing.
Except for the soccer part….that’s OK. Soccer really is boring and unAmerican. It’s a conspiracy.
It all started with watering down the beer…..and those little Itty bitty bottles…..my God! Of course society will fall apart. The inventors of baseball would be absolutely APPALLED!
Give an investor 100k, they buy a property and flip it for 250k, do it again, 500k, take.their fees, give me my money 450k….
Now I want to buy a property….
How much money (buying power) did I actually make?
Whoa…that’s economic growth?
Looked good on paper.
Greed causes inflation.
Carnegie vs Morgan.
STS
“Ruining the game because today, most rich people don’t have to work hard for thier money…..so they spend money frivolousy.”
I see lots of poor and “regular” people who spend their money in ways I consider frivolous. People probably think the same of me. That’s how it be.
“The investment guys? Privileged. Don’t even contribute anything to our society really.”
What do you, as a hardware store clerk, or whatever, really contribute to society?
“The privileged make.way too much in comparison with the regular Joe”
Sure. How do you propose this is changed?
Higher taxes and a higher minimum wage are the only real ways to do that. Most Americans have been brainwashed by the rich to think those are bad things. So, they vote against them
“…AND…they have no shame, don’t have to see the people they screwed”
Agreed
“every Sunday…..”
And Monday, and Tuesday, and…nothing special about Sunday
“Society will fall apart.”
Agreed.
“Those fks.want to impose soccer on us….
Fk soccer, it’s BORING…..that’s what they are doing.”
Weird rant
Cut the BS. Boros is not giving any discounts.
Boros tries to break salary and length of contract records with all his star player clients.
The Padres are not signing Soto since he price will be 500-600M.
Preller and Siedler are not fooling anyone,
The Commissioner’s office, representing all the Owners, has already publicly admonished the Padres for spending too much money for such a small market and carrying too much yearly and long term debt.
Just auction off Soto either in the trade market if you can get a better deal
OR get a package of top young MLB players and almost MLB ready prospects and take the deal.
Otherwise, the Padres only get one draft pick that might make the majors in 2-3 years.
Adding Soto on a 500-600M deal and the Padres will be on the road to a future in US Bankruptcy Court It has happened to other major league teams.
In 2010, the Texas Rangers were forced into a bankruptcy court sale to new owners.
As any agent should do for their in-demand clients.
Manfred can run his mouth all he wants without any owner’s approval. His M.O. is to suppress player salaries. Does he have access to the Padres’ books?
Former Rangers owner Tom Hicks went into voluntary bankruptcy to expedite the sale of the Rangers to their new owners. He over-leveraged himself in other investments and didn’t have the liquidity to pay back creditors. The Rangers was always a flip to him. Hicks’ net worth never exceeded $1B. Padres’ owner Seidler is worth $3B.
That is not what the Media reported about the Rangers.
MLB forced the Sale of the Rangers.
The Rangers were, apparently, forced into Bankruptcy Court by creditors.
Creditors can force a bankrupt company into bankruptcy Court
if they are owned money.
MLB got involved at that point.
Man other MLB team owners were essentially bankrupt and, if MLB had a Strong Commissioner they should have been forced to sell like their teams.
the Wilpons in NY (Mets) after they lost billions to the Madoff scam.
The Madoffs were were using Mets team revenues for years to try to replenish their family fortune.
They were not spending money on the Mets and players.
(Google NY sports media and their fans)
The Mets were essentially bankrupt for years, would not spend
money for their NY based team in the largest Media market in the country.
Frank McCourt and his wife then ex wife were taking huge amounts of cash out of the Dodgers.
The McCourts filed for Divorce.
The Dodgers books were opened.
It was discovered that Ownership mismanaged the Dodgers and were on the verge of bankruptcy.
Ditto with A’s Owner Steve Fischer who ran the A’s into the ground on purpose like the movie “Major League”
Fischer is a “Vulture Capitalist” who drives down the values of the A’s on purpose to do a ‘fix and flip” and to make a killing in an eventual sale of the
A’s with its rock bottom payroll and its eventual new stadium.
Steve Fishcer whose Gap stock has tanked and fire sales all his A;s players
accepts “revenue sharing” when his is in the 6th largest TV market
in the country with a 7M population and a yearly.
Fischer is an EMBARRASSMENT TO MLB OWNERS.
MLB OWNERS ARE “SLUMMING IT” WITH FISCHER.
The A’s should be BLOCKED FROM MOVING TO LAS VEGAS.
FISCHER SHOULD BE FORCED TO SELL THE A’S TO LOCAL SF BAY AREA OWNERSHIP THAT HAS THE CASH AND CREDIT TO MAKE THE A’S A SUCCESSFUL FRANCHISE.
MULTIPLE BILLIONAIRES HAVE STANDING OFFERS TO BUY THE A’S FROM FISCHER, KEEP THE A’S IN OAKLAND AND SF BAY AREA
AND BUILD THE A’S A NEW STADIUM IN SF BAY AREA.
YOU KNOW THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS OWNER WHO BUILT A DYNASTY WITH THE WARRIORS?! AND, HE BUILT A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR NEW CHASE CENTER ARENA IN SF BAY AREA.
“Lacob’s name has long been attached to buying the A’s. He even told the San Francisco Chronicle that he has had a “standing offer” to buy the team for over the past decade. According to the East Bay Times, Lacob said chose his words carefully (because he does not want to alienate MLB Owners)
.Oct 7, 2023
FORCE A’S OWNER JOHN FISCHER TO SELL.
LET LACOB OR ANOTHER LOCAL SF BAY AREA BILLIONAIRE BUY THE A’S, BUILD THEM A NEW STADIUM IN THE SF BAY AREA
AND RESTORE THE GLORY OF THE 4x WORLD CHAMPION A’S IN THE SF BAY AREA!
MLB OWNERS MUST BLOCK THE A’S MOVE TO LAS VEGAS.
NOTHING AGAINS, LAS VEGAS.
LET THEM HAVE A MLB EXPANSION TEAM!
WIN/WIN SITUATION!!!
gd
FORCE A’S OWNER JOHN FISCHER TO SELL.
LET LACOB OR ANOTHER LOCAL SF BAY AREA BILLIONAIRE BUY THE A’S, BUILD THEM A NEW STADIUM IN THE SF BAY AREA
AND RESTORE THE GLORY OF THE 4x WORLD CHAMPION A’S IN THE SF BAY AREA!
MLB OWNERS MUST BLOCK THE A’S MOVE TO LAS VEGAS.
==============================
Why would the owners have to block the move to LV?
If Lacobs wants to build a team in Oakland, having Fisher move the team to LV leaves him in great shape to take over Oakland.
Owners should vote to block a move to Las Vegas.
Re read post above.
Fischer has intentionally “Tanked the A’s for years.(like Movie Major League)
Prior Owner Walter Haas Jr (Levis) built a competitive A’s playoffs team.
Hass payed his p layers.
Haas spent money on marketing.
Under Haas, the A’s broke the MLB playoffs record for attendance
in a playoffs game with over 56,000 fans attending @ the Coliseum.
MLB Owners are subsidizing the A’s with YEARLYrevenue sharing when the A’s operate in one of the richest markets in the country
MLB will waive a 400M relocation fee if A’s move to LV?!
And, MLB will continue to pay “revenue sharing “monies to the
A’s in Las Vegas,
CLEARLY, THE PROBLEM IS OWNER STEVE FISCHER, NOT THE A’S, NOT THEIR FANS, NOT OAKLAND, NOT THE SF BAY AREA.
VOTE NO ON LAS VEGAS RELOCATION.
FORCE FISCHER TO SELL THE A’S TO LOCAL SF BAY AREA INVESTORS..
AWARD LAS VEGAS AN EXPANSION TEAM.
I JUST SAVED MLB AT LEAST A BILLION DOLLARS IN RELO FEES AND REVENUE SHARING FEES WITH MY PLAN
Fischer has intentionally “Tanked the A’s for years
========================
Complete nonsense.
They’ve been bad for two years. In the previous ten years, the A’s played .531 and maybe the playoffs 6x.
Just for fun, compare them to the:
SDP
TOR
BAL
MIN
CWS
DET
LAA
KCR
SEA
NYM
MIA
PIT
CIN
COL
ARI
Do some research and let me know how many of the those teams have as good a record as the A’s, and who has as many playoffs appearances.
And after you fail at that, let me know when you are going to force the sale of these other less-well-run teams.
And then when you finish with that, how about answering my question about how a move to LV interferes with anyone else opening a team in Oakland.
Boras. Any agent that is giving discounts is not doing their job and may be in violation of their fiduciary duty to their client.
He’ll be a San Diego Padre to start the season and a Houston Astro to end it…
Disregard whatever they say to the Press beit the Pres of Baseball OPs Preller, Owner Seidler, Agent Boras etc.
These statements to the press are all “posturing” by both sides to set up negotiations
or lack of negotiations.
What is true and in the media today, does not mean that is their position tomorrow or next week or next month.
The team will be constantly evaluating the situation in the offseason and Spring Training.
If the Padres get a substantial trade offer that they cannot refuse, then Soto is gone
(an offer for multiple young major league players and almost major league ready prospects with big upside. that helps the Padres compete both short term and long term).
If the Padres get what they think is a “lowball offer” ( like what Chaim Bloom and Boston accepted for Mookie Betts,) then very likely Soto stays in San Diego for one more year and no trade deal, and the Padres take the draft pick for him.
Padres will extend him for 20 years and make Scott the manager for 21 years. Poverty club doing poverty things. Par for the California course
caking
Wow. What a hot taek. So impressive! Jim Rome and his clones would be so proud of you
@cakingtx: What an amazingly dumb comment.
Padres just moved into revenue sharing payer status. That means they are in the top half of teams in MLB in revenue. So by definition, not poverty.
Is that how California became the 4th largest and 4th richest economy in the entire World, when compared to other countries? ( passing Germany for 4th place)?!
If people know the padres then what was said changed nothing. It’s the same stance they have had all offseason.
Padres have said their first priority is to extend Soto. Said they will engage Boris and his team to see where that stands. Soto has said many times he loves it in San Diego. He will not sign for a discount so the padres will need to pony up around 500m. There is a path to an extension if Soto really is open to staying on San Diego.
If no extension can be completed then the padres will plan to go into the season with Soto on a one year deal. This could open up the idea of signing someone else long term and riding out the last year of Soto. As preller stated having a player like Soto on a contract year is very attractive.
Third option if no extension is completed the padre would listen to trade offers. With Soto on a contract year and the padres main goal being to compete for a championship next year they would only trade Soto if they are blown away by an offer.
If you think the padres are trading Soto to save the 33m because they are broke and will just take the best offer then you are very wrong. There is nothing the padres have said that supports that. Everything they have said is about keeping him but will listen in case there is an offer they can’t refuse. So if you are team that wants him then understand any trade is going to hurt. Think of guys you don’t want to go, going.
This is why it’s highly likely Soto at least starts the season with the padres.
You explained reality quite clearly, thanks Simms.
Then there’s the new rumors floating that the Pads are trying to deal Tatis and Bogaerts, based on no information from the Padres. The media dramas never end.
There is a general feeling among fans, clearly demonstrated in the posts above, that the Pads payroll exceeds their means and the team will not be able to maintain this place among the big boys of MLB spenders. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
If you live in the SD area, go by the home that Soto built next door to Machado. He one upped Machado by buying, tearing down and building a $15 million home while Machado only has a $10 million home.
He just spend his take home for the last 2 seasons on that house. He will at the very least be living in San Diego long term and next door to his 2022-2024 teammate. It really seems to me that he wants to stay. Now Seidler has to make that happen.
If he’s smart and got good advice from his agent, he took out a mortgage and invested the cash elsewhere.
Lot of MLB, NFL, NBA players have built and purchased homes in San Diego to live there in the offseason.
I was on a flight from Dallas to San Diego a few years ago and seated not far from Drew Brees and his family who still has his home in San Diego that he uses in the offseason.
Brees was another pro player with a big contract who thought he would be playing his career in San Diego.
It didn’t happen like so many other pros with various San Diego Pro teams:
McGriff, Sheffield, Joe Carter, Roberto Alomar(who was trying to sell his expensive home in Del Mar for years to other pro players after he was traded).
Tony Gwynn was one of the few, rare, players who spent their entire careers in San Diego.
Soto can keep the home on Coronado Island.
Either visit it when he is on the road, or use it as a summer home.
But, the odds are, and the real history with San Diego Sports team owners is that players won’t be living in San Diego or those homes full time.
Jim Harbaugh used to have a home there, but gave it to his 1st wife in a divorce settlement (the Mother of Michigan Assistant Coach Jay Harbaugh).
Tony Gwynn was a rare player who spent his entire career in any city.
Facts. I think he’s staying.
Based on what?
Scott Boros is motivated by getting the best deal he can for his client, so he himself profits the most from it.
On the other hand, AJ Preller has to balance the needs and goals of the Padres. He can’t afford to commit a lip-sized share of team payroll to a single player when there are many holes to fill. Letting Soto play out his contract year and fielding trade offers makes sense. While Soto in the lineup makes the Padres more formidable offensively, can he be flipped for multiple young and hungry players that fill some of those holes.
Let’s face it — as much as they try, Padres ownership is never going to have the deepest pockets in the NL West as long as a consortium of hedge fund principals can funnel unlimited dollars into the Dodgers roster. It becomes a fools game. Instead, they need to tool for an exciting style of play that draws fans interest.
Scott BORAS does an even better job of that.
See above: fan boy is quite apt. Can’t even let a spelling error go by (intentional or not).
That’s your opinion, which carries no weight with me.
One of the thins I have not seen mentioned is that there is a “best by” date on Soto. If Preller plans on trading him, it has to be done before other teams spend their budget, fill their positions, and in enough time so that Preller can spend the other $33M elsewhere.
This can’t wait until February.
But the article explains why the Pads are not planning on trading him
But the same thing applies to an extension. Past a point, even assuming that point has not already been passed, Soto will choose the market place over a Preller offer.
But did the Boras interview or Preller’s comments suggest, in any way, that that point has already been passed?
I’d make a modest wager that it has. My guess is that he will not be extended. My guess is that he will be traded in the unlikely event the Padres bomb out, and will only be extended if the Padres win the WS.
Maybe I misunderstood. But I agree that he won’t be extended in offseason, won’t be traded ( unless they are out of it by end of July).
No it does not!
The article is a “puff piece”
Yes it does!
And it’s a puff piece (as most are).
Both are correct.
Not a single top 50 FA has been signed yet and there will be little to no movement until Ohtani signs. That is expected around the Winter Meetings.
Any extensions of players like Soto or other young superstars will not happen until after that.
When I did a search of extensions signed in the offseason, the vast majority happened in January and February with a few in December and a few in March.
There were actually more extensions in both April and May than any month in the offseason.
mlbtraderumors.com/?s=signs+extension
So your “best by” time frame has not arrived yet.
Padres are going to lose Snell and thus need pitching, so Soto is a trade card to beef up that area and with some new young talent.
Many other contending teams are looking for a power good hitter / lefty. Ciao baby. Yes Soto has an attitude problem but it will be managed.
Can we stop calling the Padres the Friars and the Angels the Halos?
Please.
Go ahead if you like. I’m not sure anyone else cares.
Who believes in Preller? Boras?
If the Padres really wanted to trade Soto, why would both Boras and Preller make public comments to the contrary, to chase teams away?
Preller make public comments to the contrary, to chase teams away?
====================
That’s an easy one. If you are selling an asset you own, it is in your best interest to feign indifference.
Wouldn’t you want a bidding war though?
An agent has no vested interest in doing so. In fact, it’s in his client’s best interest to be in the largest market with the highest media penetration because more media exposure typically means more earning potential, whether from that team or from other teams.
Boras was the one who made a point of saying Soto would definitely be a Padre in 2024.
It was only after that in interviews that Preller confirmed that that was indeed the plan when asked about Soto and the Boras interview.
You would, but you also want to give the impression that trading Soto is the last thing you want to do.
We use to joke that the Mets GM would start every conversation with “If you even ask about Mitchell, I am hanging up. But just out of curiosity, what do you think he is worth?”
@Brady. I can respect your perspective. I’m definitely not GM material. I think the Boras public statements are what seemed to counter the logic for me. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Seidler must believe in Preller because he still has a job. He is the only one that counts since he signs the checks.
As far as Boras goes, the players and owners? That just might be why he has more players and more $$ under contract than any other agent in the sport. Just a hunch.
Ownership statements and agent statements about retaining/resigning their players is like a template every year with every team and agent.
They all mouth the same platitudes about signing with their present team.
Owners/Pres/GMs and agents “mark their territories”.
However, it often does not work out that way and players sign with the highest bidder(most often). And, many times, it is a different team from the one they played for just prior to free agency.
And, relying on the revenue and fan markets to constantly increase year to year for decades is a very risky business proposition.
At some point, team revenues will plateau.
Then, stuff will start hitting the financial fan.
Then, some of these teams with the most players on maximum contracts
may find their businesses in the bankruptcy courts
It has already happened to some sports and baseball teams.
The Texas Rangers were forced into bankruptcy court and a sale in 2010
MLB Clubs that have gone into bankrupcy include:
1) The Rangers
2) The Orioles
3) The Pilots
Franchises with future financial “Red Flags”
include the A’s if they move to Las Vegas
(even with subsidized revenue sharing).
Las Vegas has only : 133M in annual GDP, 2.2 million people, 42nd TV market and incompetent terrible ownership
POTENTIAL LAS VEGAS A’S TOP CANDIDATE TO GO INTO BANKRUPTCY
IN THE NEXT 5-7 YEARS.
People who work on “The Strip” go home to the burbs and won’t be attending 82 home games per year.
Tourists are not going to fill up that small stadium.
Most people don’t go on vacation to go see a baseball game.
(some do travel for playoffs and World Series games).
I have been on tons of vacations all over and not once did I attend a sporting event on my vacation (and I have spent a lot of $$ on vacations).
SF Bay Area , including Oakland, has 577Billion in GDP, is 6th in TV market. has population of 7M It is home to some of the richest tech companies in the entire World.
It is night and day as far as wealth, spendable income, employment etc.
Las Vegas does not even come close.
I have been on tons of vacations all over and not once did I attend a sporting event on my vacation (and I have spent a lot of $$ on vacations).
============================
I go to LV every year. In the future, if I can manage two trips a years, I would definitely try to time it so that I can see the RS and the Raiders.
This will be true for the gazillion people that don’t live near their favorite team.
Good for you!
The Raiders are listed as 30th in attendance out of 32 teams
even with the Raiders trying to attract “tourist fans”.
And, that is for only 8 or 9 home games per year?!
Las Vegas will have trouble filling even the much smaller than average
proposed baseball stadium in LV for 82 home games,
thefootballusa.com/nfl-average-attendance
1-It takes a while to build up a fan base.
2-The Raiders management, before a week ago, stunk.
What you are really saying is that even though you go to Las Vegas every year, you have never been to a sporting event there. That is the same for most people. Gambling. Partying. Debauchery that not possible at home. Concerts. Sure. Sports? Not so much. That is why even though they were counting on their millions of southern California fans to attend games, the Raiders cannot fill their stadium. People don’t go to Las Vegas for pro sports.
Plenty of support for the visiting teams in LV. Check the jerseys in the stands.
If there was, the Raiders would not be at the bottom of the league in out of state ticket sales and in attendance.
Locals attending games in the jerseys of visiting teams happens everywhere.