The No. 1 overall pick in the 2023 draft is on his way to the majors. Pirates right-hander Paul Skenes will make his highly anticipated MLB debut this Saturday in a home outing against the visiting Cubs, the the team announced.
The 6’6″, 235-pound Skenes is the embodiment of a prototypical, power-armed ace. He’s widely regarded as one of the top pitching prospects in the sport — if not the top pitching prospect. Pittsburgh selected him with the top pick in last year’s draft after Skenes posted a 2.18 ERA and fanned more than 36% of his opponents in a three-year college career that included two seasons with the Air Force Academy and a third with the eventual national champion Louisiana State University Tigers. Skenes posted a comical 1.69 ERA over the course of 122 innings, striking out a hair over 45% of his opponents.
You won’t find a scouting report on Skenes that doesn’t laud him as a potential perennial All-Star and front-of-the-rotation pitcher with Cy Young upside. His fastball sits in the upper 90s and can reach 102 mph. Baseball America, MLB.com and FanGraphs all give him credit for a plus-plus (70-grade) fastball on the 20-80 scale, with MLB.com even pegging as an 80-grade pitch. His slider draws similar praise.
The Athletic’s Keith Law notes that Skenes’ four-seam/slider combo was so dominant in college that he needed to work on his seldom-used changeup and a two-seamer in order to reach his ace-level ceiling. He’s worked to incorporate both into his repertoire more regularly in Triple-A this year. ESPN’s Kiley McDaniel lists Skenes alongside David Price, Gerrit Cole and Stephen Strasburg as one of the four best pitching prospects in the past 20 years of the MLB draft.
To this point in his young career, Skenes has done nothing to suggest the hype is unwarranted. He’s made seven starts in Triple-A — the Pirates have limited his per-outing workload, leaving him at 27 1/3 innings on the season — and posted a 0.99 ERA with an over-the-moon 42.9% strikeout rate against a 7.6% walk rate. Skenes has kept the ball on the ground at a 51% clip and yielded just one homer all season. Though Pittsburgh has ramped him up in quite cautious fashion, he’s now been up to six innings in a start, so he should be able to work relatively deep into his debut effort if his performance dictates.
Skenes’ ascension to the Pirates’ rotation comes at a time when fellow rookie Jared Jones looks well on his way to becoming a high-end rotation arm himself. The 22-year-old Jones entered the season as a top-100 prospect himself and has raced out to a brilliant start: 2.63 ERA, 33.8% strikeout rate, 3.2% walk rate in 41 innings.
In an ideal setting, that electric young duo will join stalwart righty Mitch Keller, who signed a five-year extension during spring training, in forming the core of the Bucs’ rotation for years to come. Veteran Martin Perez is holding down one of the rotation spots behind that trio for now, but he’s only on a one-year contract. Fellow southpaw Marco Gonzales entered the season in the rotation as well, but he’s since gone down with a forearm strain. The Pirates are surely hopeful that some combination of Quinn Priester, Luis Ortiz, Anthony Solometo, Bubba Chandler and Tom Harrington can break through in the majors and form a homegrown rotation that can thrust the team into perennial contention.
The timing of Skenes’ promotion comes at a point when enough time has elapsed that he can’t accrue a full year of big league service time — at least not by conventional means. There will only be 143 days remaining in the season by the time he debuts, leaving him well shy of the requisite 172 for a year of service. However, under the prospect promotion incentives in the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement, Skenes could still gain a full year of service if he finishes in the top two of National League Rookie of the Year voting.
In the event that Skenes achieves that feat, he’d have five additional years of club control, meaning he wouldn’t be eligible for free agency until the 2029-30 offseason and wouldn’t reach arbitration eligibility until the 2026-27 offseason. If Skenes sticks in the big leagues but does not gain a year of service based on Rookie of the Year voting, he’d be under club control through the 2030 season. However, the timing of his promotion also leaves him as a surefire Super Two player in that scenario, meaning he’d still be arb-eligible following the 2026 campaign and would go through the arbitration process four times rather than the standard three.
swagsuperawesomeepiccoolman123
about time
roob
Yeah. Way too much time wasted in the minors.
TheMan 3
Considering that as a pitcher in college, he only went to the mound once a week and not every 5 days as it is in the majors, until now he wasn’t ready for a rotation role
I question whether people really understand the importance of building arm strength
roob
Nah! 34 innings in pro ball. It’s about time!
avenger65
102 mph? Hold on to that UCL, kid.
User 401527550
They decreased his arm strength. He is pitching a ridiculous low amount of innings trying to protect his arm. They are going to cause an injury going from high usage to limited usage and slowly ramping him up for no reason.
TheMan 3
Obviously you’re a seasoned professional pitching coach so maybe you should consult the Pirates and offer your services
carlos15
265 innings over 4 seasons, wonder how that translates to pitching every 5 days now
TheMan 3
it’s one start carlos15. Nobody is suggesting that he makes 30 this season
jimmyz
He’s probably going to throw about 125 innings or so this year, health permitting. There’s no reason to waste them in April when he’s in AAA. Due to LSU’s title run he already threw a lot last year so they just gave him a taste of pro ball and got a quick look at him before shutting him down last year. The Pirates aren’t really babysitting him or playing with service time manipulation more than any other team in the league would.
User 401527550
Is that what he threw in the summer leagues in college? Do you think college players only play from January to April?
Buccoprojectory
The man…you should know that it’s troll season. These people make insane comments on things they know nothing about. Comments wishing him bad luck in his career. These people are insane. Maybe more just jealous because the pirates might have the next great pitcher. Then there’s the comments on they will just trade him in 4 years. Recent pirate signings suggest otherwise.
I’m excited about skenes, Johnson and Keller and the rest of the pitching prospects. Now we all know the hitting is a problem. But get rid of Haines and moron Shelton and things will turn around. His batting lineups are atrocious. Relies to much on ANALlytics and his in-game decisions are ones of a complete lack of knowledge of fundamental baseball.
TheMan 3
I couldn’t agree more, Buccoprojectory. Shelton often makes in game decisions that are against reality
Such as yesterday after Perez had given up two singles to start the 6th inning and replacing him with Ortiz
Perez was pitching a pretty good game, and should have been given the opportunity to get out of the inning on his own
Or not ordering Taylor to try putting down a bunt to get on base instead of allowing him to swing at pitches nowhere near the plate
Small ball is crucial for a team that lacks natural talent to score runs and Shelton never thinks outside of the box to generate runs
floridabucco
That is great…..can he hit? That is what we need.
swagsuperawesomeepiccoolman123
i mean.. kinda? he was a two way player
padam
One run is all you’ll need with him on most nights.
Scrap Iron
@padam I love fanboys like you. You have zero clue how he will adapt to real hitters, but you claim they only need 1 run per night when he pitches. You homers know absolutely nothing about real baseball and you are basing your asinine comment off of what you read on the internet.
TheMan 3
are they sending Andy Haines down to Indy in exchange for him?
Ontopofla
^^^^^ THIS ALL DAY LONG ^^^^^
MLB Top 100 Commenter
First, go Cubs! Hope Skenes pulls a Yamamoto and gets blown out in his first game before become extraordinary.
Second, I think this timing is prudent. You want Skenes to have time to get familiar with the organization before you bring him up and even with him, I do not see the Pirates as playoff contenders. I think the timing of this call up was neither too late nor too soon, but rather just right.
TheMan 3
I’m sure you know more than this organization, Manny and I am also certain that they appreciate your input
SMH at another armchair individual who knows more than seasoned staff
MLB Top 100 Commenter
The Man
You misinterpreted my comment. I am not suggesting that I know more than the team’s front office, coaches and scouts. But I have seen instances where the front office was clearly not acting on the best interest of either winning or the players development to manipulate service time. I indicated that I agreed with the team’s timing which includes giving Skenes a transition to professional ball, not so much the mechanics of pitching as the turn-around time, publicity, social and psychological buildup to making the show.
PatCombs10-10
just like half the people that comment on here .
lesterdnightfly
And you trust the Pirates FO and staff on everything they do, right?
Grow up and learn to read.
johnrealtime
@TheMan 3
Could you provide a list of appropriate subjects to comment on on this site?
I fear that you’d deem basically any comment one might make being an “armchair individual who knows more than seasoned staff”. I’d say that armchair GM-ing or coaching is more or less what you do on this site
TheMan 3
As a Pirate fan since 1966, a former 30 year season ticket holder and a fan that has witnessed, often times during real time events, I am probably more experienced in the process of making this franchise successful or a failure than most of the armchair people on this site, including you
Call it arrogance or ignorance for that matter, but my opinions are just that
opinions
johnrealtime
I think you should assume that there is an implied “In my opinion” at the end of every comment. It is tedious to write that out, but it is safe to assume that most comments are stating opinions, not facts
gbs42
I really like that movie.
Selkies
Sarcasm?
It seems like more and more teams are pushing their prospects to the majors quicker than ever before. I did not expect to see Skenes up until after the All-Star Break. Whatever MLB is doing to incentivize these early call+ups seems be working.
YourDreamGM
Davis was fastest #1 pick since 1970 something. Skenes beat him by over a year and a month.
blake312
Hopefully he can be amazing in the Majors and avoid any injuries
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
*suffers Tommy John after 6 starts*
Unclemike1525
Bring him on.
User 1939973770
hope he gets shelled
User 1939973770
who’s his girlfriend? tbh idk why skenes has so much hype
User 3815330533
I dunno. Hits 100-102 on the gun. Has exceptional spin pitches
If you watched the college World Series last season, it would explain the hype. And as a Pirates fan, hey, it’s all about the hype
But like @floridabucco said above, they have no hitting on this team
TheMan 3
With any luck they will also be sending Alika to Indy in exchange for Gonzalez, tiredolderdude.
Alika still has options and they need some spark in their lineup
BringBackDunkeroos
Team needs more than a spark, they need a full fledged nuclear detonation. Bring up Gonzalez, Bae and Lamb for this weekend. Send down Williams, DFA Telez and at this point send down Suwinski.
User 3815330533
Yeah , agreed. This rebuild is over and was unsuccessful. Skenes coming up is nice and all, but how many wins will it mean? They have the makings of a nice staff in Jones, Keller, Skenes, Martin or Solometo, Chandler or Burrows. But what does it matter if they can’t score runs?
TheMan 3
Knowing that Cherington is a horrible GM, has signed worthless free agents and up until now, with the exception of Skenes, he’s failed at his #1 draft picks, a spark is all we need except despite needing far more
TheMan 3
a spark is about all we can expect considering the minors have been a failure for player development and there’s no one to trade for anyone reasonably better
While I don’t disagree with your suggestion, hitting successfully in the minors doesn’t always translate into success in the majors.
That said, Bae and Gonzalez deserve a shot at the majors
Suwinski, now in his 3rd year, has regressed, still strikes out too much ( but which Buc doesn’t), Williams shows flashes but isn’t consistent enough and has no power, Taylor is a strike out machine and not from pitching, and Triolo has not been the player we saw last year at the plate
He has a great defensive prowess but can’t hit to save his life
And Hayes is even worse than his 2nd year and this is his 5th one
It can’t be all of the players being unable to hit the ball successfully but this franchise isn’t about to fire the one person responsible either
Julio Franco's Birth Certificate
Except there’s about 25 teams that would be thrilled to have Cherington as their GM. Would you like Huntington back?
TheMan 3
Huntington gave us Cutch and Neil Walker, traded for Cervelli, signed Fransisco Liriano and traded for AJ Burnett
His also traded for Happ.
He had one blemish on his trading record
Cherington drafted Henry Davis, Mike Gonzalez and Paul Skenes
He signed Rowdy Tellez and Michael A Taylor
His trades brought us Cruz, Bednar, Suwinski and Endy
He hired the most useless hitting coach in baseball and an equally awful manager
Shelton writes his lineups by pulling names out of his hat
Haines came over from the Brewers where their offense was as bad as ours is using the same system
Yes, I would prefer Huntington at this point
User 3815330533
Tell me what Cherington did here again, Julio. Seriously. Please explain your rationale. I’d love to debate it
He rebuilt the farm system. Yes. He replaced guys who were better suited to play slow pitch softball with guys who have average talent. So the Pirates have a farm system full of guys who get a lot of hype, arrive at the MLB level and generally flop
Nice
He signed Reynolds and Hayes to long term contracts. Since then, neither has provided anything approaching offensive leadership. He signed Keller to an extension.
He has in place scouting and player development programs that are duds. Do I need to provide a laundry list of players who’ve stagnated
25 teams? Highly doubtful
Meanwhile, I would rather judge Huntington for his work in building the Cutch-Walker-Cole years rather than after he was told to slash payroll
25 teams. What a joke
greatwhiteangus
Not trying to pick a fight here but Cutch and Walker were drafted by Littlefield
TheMan 3
I stand corrected on who drafted Cutch and Walker but even with Littlefield,! would take him over Cherington
BC’s player development and scouting department has been horrible for a franchise previously rich in history of developing major league caliber talent
jimmyz
I don’t know, I think I’d take a middle school gym teacher over Littlefield. Those were some really, really bad years.
User 3815330533
Oh no fight, great white. It’s just convo. I meant the team he built around those guys at that time.
TheMan 3
maybe so, jimmyz, but BC’s tenure hasn’t even produced a winning record yet, and in his 3+ year, they have never been close to having a .500 team, have consistently finished at the bottom third in runs scored and in the very bottom in team batting average
And at the rate this season is going, they won’t improve much from last season in any offensive category, except maybe strike outs.
They seem to excel at that
Dice 66
Alika an Jack as bad as I hate to send Jake down. Maybe light a fire under him. Bring up Gonzalez and Bae along with Skenes.
Dice 66
Telez needs to go.Keep Gonzalez at 2nd move Trillo to first. Gonzalez needs ab’s.
Dice 66
Sid Thrift! GM
TheMan 3
I agree, Dice 66. Bringing up Gonzalez and Bae can’t be any worse than what we already have and might just improve the offense
Except that Triolo doesn’t possess the prototypical power that a first baseman has nor has he shown power potential in his career so far. Rowdy should have never been signed and neither should have Michael A Taylor
A combined $7 million dollars for 1 home run and 4 extra base hits
TheMan 3
Syd Thrift did a lot in an attempt to bring Pittsburgh a WS championship
He reminded me of Joe Brown’s tenure as the GM of the Pirates during the 70’s
panj341
Spend nothing get nothing. Both are just painful to watch batting.
TheMan 3
Rowdy rests his bat on his shoulder at the plate and I have noticed that it slows down his eventual swing
A trait that makes me wonder if Haines bothers to look at on video
Mendoza Line 215
I am not against releasing Tellez and bringing up Jake Lamb.Triolo and Suwinski go down and Bae and Gonzalez come up and all get playing time.
Nutting will not OK losing $2.25 M though.
BringBackDunkeroos
33% of the way to my desires. Gonzalez on his way up for tomorrows game. Hopefully this is part of a bigger roster shakeup.
Mendoza Line 215
Julio- Why did he take the Pirate’s job if he was that popular?
TheMan 3
Gonzalez was promoted for tonight’s game and they haven’t yet announced who is going back to Indy
unpaidobserver
His girl is fastball my friend and their union is baseball.
TheMan 3
Only an immature loser would wish that on him
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Or just a fan of the opposing team. I hope he gets shelled in his first start and then is great when he pitches against teams other than the Cubs, Dodgers or Sacramento As.
TheMan 3
My comment wasn’t meant for you Manny
User 1939973770
ok lol
Todd Kemmerer
Skenes
Jones
Keller
Great start.just need some offense
runningwithnailclippers
Reds fan here and I am always rooting for you guys. You guys are kind of like Cincy East or maybe we are Pittsburgh West. (We both have cheap owners, questionable managers and the FO makes some wonky decisions).
Mai Pen Rai
Same. Would much rather have the Pirates at the top of the division than the Cubs or Cards. Rooting for Skenes to live up to the hype
b00giem@n
As another Reds fan, cool with Pittsburgh, F the Brewers Cardinals and Cubs.
Best of luck to Skenes, we’re waiting on Lowder.
lesterdnightfly
Can we all agree that we hate the Cardinals?
b00giem@n
Absolutely.
Ma4170
And a couple of other mid rotation updide guys in the minors too, right?
Fenway 1
I would actually manipulate service time in this scenario. Isn’t stretched out that much so his innings won’t cause a massive tur around this year.
User 401527550
He will probably win rookie of the year with half a year under his belt.
mlb1225
The masculine urge to say “We’re back” 20 minutes after saying “It’s over.”
nkschum
If you were like me and wondering who their opponent is, Skenes is starting at home against the Cubs. Javier Assad is listed as the probable pitcher for Chicago.
LATrolleyDodger
That’s a good matchup and 1st game for Skenes
Steve Adams
Should’ve listed the opponent in there. Sorry about that. Updated now. Thanks!
njbirdsfan
If for nothing other than I no longer have to listen to local radio opine on baseball as their way to fill air until the Steelers have some random practice and claim they know better than the front office I’m glad it’s happening.
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
Those of you who bet (I don’t) should consider taking the 5-inning under. Assad has been really good so far and the Cubs haven’t been able to hit their way out of a phone booth (do they still have those?) for the last two weeks.
Unclemike1525
Probably will end up a bullpen game anyway.
PiratesFan1981
Have you seen how the Pirates have been hitting over the last 5 weeks? They couldn’t hit a ball off a tee while the starters pitched their rear ends off. The Pirates need a huge offensive spark to have any hope at a WC. There has been a lot of promise going into the season and to see the Pirates at 17-21, has many fans numb. Tellez needs to be released and open up Triolo/Joe at 1B and bring up Gonzales. See what he can do this third time around. Or option B, trade one of their stockpiles of middle infielders and/or Pitchers for a promising 1B who can start immediately. Maybe a guy who has 50-100 ABs at the majors but is being held back because of someone else manning 1B and DH. I’d love a long term power hitting 1B in any trade right now.
Blackpink in the area
Gonna have to watch this one. No doubt this is the best looking pitching prospects since Strassburg.
douglasb
or maybe Appel.
Blackpink in the area
Appel was nowhere near as good as Skenes is now. Not even close. It’s Skenes and Strassburg in my lifetime.
MPrck
7 YEAR MAN………….COME ON UP !!
30 Parks
Watched all his starts at LSU – Skenes is in rare company. Good luck, Paul!
ib6ub9
About time. Lol
lesterdnightfly
Are you one of those robots, er, commenters who add LOL to everything they post? Because it was already meaningless before you wrote this, and it makes no sense in your “incisive comment”.
TJECK109
And Nutting will just be happy to have a sold out park.
Hope Skenes is filthy. Team needs him to blow the doors off people.
Gonna predict he goes 4 and gets a ND in a 1-0 pirates loss where the pirates had 4 hits and struck out 11 times
TheMan 3
That’s probably why they chose Saturday night’s game, TJECK109. To fill the stadium
Is it a fireworks night too?
Well, they did manage 6 hits and 13 strikeouts so your prediction might be accurate
TJECK109
No fireworks would be a waste. It’s a 4pm start.
TheMan 3
They gave Hayes’ GG bobbleheads to the final 20,000 fans for this past Sunday’s game and only 12000 people attended the game
lesterdnightfly
If those bobbleheads were for the final 20,000, who were the first ones?
User 3815330533
Maybe they can mix and match for the next bobble head night. Hayes left overs with the insanely popular Jaromir Jagr bobbleheads! I smell a sell out
TheMan 3
I meant the first 20,000 fans. Only someone who doesn’t have anything productive to say would make the correction
SewaldSwansonSwoon
Why is it when the Orioles promote a prospect, it’s service time manipulation. But when the Pirates do it, as a service time manipulation, everyone nods and smiles? Nonsensical. That being said, I agree with Skenes starting the year in the minors. He’s still very new to pro ball. Curious to see how this goes.
TJECK109
Because they know that the Pirates will never be able to afford Skenes when his control is up. No one cares what the Pirates do because they know eventually if the player is good enough they will be traded
greatwhiteangus
When’s the last time the O’s signed a young player long term?
I’ll be over in the corner waiting.
Edp007
If anyone could break the curse of top picks flopping for the bucs this guy may be it
TheMan 3
previous flops were a result of staying in the minors for several years before being promoted
Player development in this organization has been a problem for years so bringing him up before they have a chance to ruin his potential is a good idea
TJECK109
I blame a lot of their hitting development on the fact that they insist on players learning how to play every position on the field.
It’s hard enough to adjust to hitting let alone trying to learn a new position.
I really think them moving Davis around really screwed with his head. Not playing well in RF and then not hitting well has to mess with your confidence
User 3815330533
They have some pieces to the puzzle here but don’t know how to make them fit. And they have some useless pieces, too
Really, the problems start with the GM, whose claim to fame will be that he retooled the farm system by replacing walking stiffs with very average players. His scouting and player personnel departments have been duds but hey, the PR department does a nice job with hype
I’ve been saying the same about Davis. You draft him as a catcher and he doesn’t catch an inning when he gets here. You stuff him in RF and think he’ll magically fit right in. But you have him sit for games at a time.
Then this year, he looks to be the catcher but you sign not one but two guys and then trade for another when Delay gets hurt
It’s a joke of a franchise. Sign high priced castoffs like Tellez, Taylor and. Chapman. Suwinski is regressing if that’s possible, Cruz may set a record for errors by midseason and AAA pitchers would give them a hard time
By all accounts, they’re gonna have a nice starting staff very shortly. Pity they can’t seem to have the personnel to put a team around it
TheMan 3
at least as a right fielder, Davis didn’t hit below the Mendoza line and actually hit 7 homers
As a catcher his offensive numbers were atrocious
Mendoza Line 215
Paul- I get $1.00 every time someone mentions The Mendoza Line.
stwawk
The GM? I’d venture to say the problems actually start with the owner. He’s right up there with the best of them.
Julio Franco's Birth Certificate
I’m having Bryan Burlington and Stetson Allie nightmares
TheMan 3
and the same nightmares of Tony Sanchez, Will Craig and Kris Benson
greatwhiteangus
And Benson’s nightmares were of Anna
Mendoza Line 215
My dreams were of Anna.
User 3815330533
Mine still are. Some dreams die hard
TheMan 3
Having a beautiful wife certainly didn’t help his career. Same goes for Cole Tucker
User 3815330533
Cmon, my friend. Isn’t it amazing that virtually all pro athletes have beautiful wives. Just a coincidence, I guess
DaddyDann
Future New York Yankee!! Reply if you are mad!!
TheMan 3
that’s exactly what yankee fans were saying about Reynolds last year and how did that turn out?
Mendoza Line 215
Dann- Most of the Yankee trolls had better lines than that one.
We call them AYF’s on this site.
I appreciate your comment though since we have not been graced with their presence for a while.
SODOMOJO
.99 ERA with 45 k’s over 27 innings. Is that good? Lol
User 401527550
The low amount of innings isn’t good.
lesterdnightfly
That LOL really sealed your “point”.
SODOMOJO
And your comment is totally relevant to the discussion. Nice work!
Bucket Number Six
Can he go five innings?
jimmyz
I’m guessing that they let him throw about 70-80 pitches. Number of innings depends on how well he’s pitching.
408inthe619
I’m not a Pirates fan, but I’m stoked to see this kid pitch for the first time
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
Padres fan here, but I’m fired up for the Bucs. Just hope their ownership spends a little money over the next few years to build on this. With two aces at the top of the rotation, and a solid #3 in Keller, things are looking up in Pittsburgh.
MLB Fanatic
Your username is interesting in that no one thinks Ron Darling is a HOFer.
RonDarlingShouldntBeInTheHallOfFame
I know. That’s what I’m saying.
casualfan
Well this is kind of fun and Pirate fans haven’t had too much to cheer about for a long, long time. So that part is all good.
The service time issues are a bit annoying though as back in the day wouldn’t they have brought him up, not to start, but to do long/middle relief for 3-4 innings at a time build arm strength? I assume they don’t do that now because of the service time issue? Or am I way off base here?
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
It’s only been 9 years since they won 98 games. Seems like a long time. They has Gerrit Cole,Francisco Lirano, Charlie Morton and AJ Burnett.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Pirates traded Skenes in 4 years.
greatwhiteangus
No reason to trade him that early. More like around 2029 or 2030.
Mendoza Line 215
Fan- I do not think that that was the issue but it had to be a relatively small part of it.
If he gets to be a ROY he gains a year until FA.
He needed the professional innings.
They did not do this with Jones but he had had several minor league years.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
I hope he has a successful career. Starting after his ML debut vs. The Cubs.
nailz#4life
they say he is the 2nd coming of Strasburg. Should have started him in his debut against WASH, as a bit of revenge after Strasburg embarrassed PIT- and Lastings Milledge- in this debut all those years ago.
TheMan 3
he wasn’t ready despite your wishes
Skeptical
I guess I am the only one not excited by this. With the current offense, Skenes’ starts, even if they are incredible, will probably be wasted. They need to fix the offense first or at least get an offense.
His call up is about “butts in seats”.
User 3815330533
Me neither. This seems to be a move that injects some interest into the fan base because truthfully, even the most devoted fan sees this team for what it is: a bottom tier club
The problem with fixing the offense is….its unfixable. I suspect the front office even knows, hence this move. And there’s no help in the minors
Wonder when it will occur to the Pirates geniuses that having 5 strong starters—which may actually happen here within a year—means nothing when you can’t score runs
YourDreamGM
They had 5 strong starters this year. Then Gonzales got hurt. If he didn’t we probably wouldn’t see Skenes yet as Falter has been good.
Had 5 strong starters last year then 2 of them lost their fastball and 3 others lost their elbow.
2 wasted years because of the bats. 2 brutal stretches of nothing. Keep the same hitting coach. Keep the same awful players.
Come watch Skenes rack up the K’s and L’s.
At least they can take really talented pitchers and not mess them up. It’s a start.
2 2b and a catcher who couldn’t catch. They took these guys for their BAT.
User 3815330533
Dream, whatever they had last year or have this year pales in comparison to what the future hopefully holds
This weekend is a precursor. Jones, Skenes and Keller vs the Cubs
Now add either Martin or Solo as a LH and then Bubba or Burrows. They haven’t had such a potential staff since Hurdle’s hey-days.
“At least they can take really talented pitchers and not mess them up”. Gee, I’m glad you’re awakening from your coma. Player development departments have a lot more to develop in position players in terms of fielding and hitting. Pitchers largely arrive ready made with speed and mechanics
Again, the Pirates player development program is among the worst. Period
And it all begins with a GM who is adept with hype
TheMan 3
Cherington knows how to sell a product, he’s a talented BS artist
And the gullible people of Pittsburgh buy into his music of nonsense with the belief that any day now the tunes of production will explode
13 strikeouts yesterday against a team that prior to this series had a collective ERA of almost 5. But hey we managed what, 6 runs?
YourDreamGM
Cherington did a heck of a sales job on tired. Solo=Brault 2.0 Burrows = Kingham 2.0 Chandler = Kuhl 2.0
User 3815330533
I’ve seen Chandler. Appears he has Kuhl’s heat but better control
Solo reminds me more of Jeff Locke
I haven’t seen enough of Burrows but I place him in the convo because each time I don’t, someone tells me not to forget him
Look, I would take a staff of Skenes, Jones, Keller, a rebuilt Oviedo and Marty. That’s fine
Ah but Dream, you’re using pretzel logic on me again. You go from A+ signings to “meh” and from positive view of their young gun pitchers to “you fell for the hype”
You cover all your bases well, my friend
kje76
Pretty sure that no one in baseball would opt for Bailey Falter over Paul Skenes, with all due respect to Falter’s season.
TheMan 3
Don’t give Cherington any ideas, kje76
YourDreamGM
You are only pretty sure. I am certain that if Gonzales was healthy or Priester was a stud they would have waited another month to guarantee no super two.
YourDreamGM
Might as well forget about Burrows. You forgot about Ashcraft Harrington Barco Kennedy Mueth Shim Matoma Reilly!!! A+ pitching system.
Bubba should be good but not as sure as thing as Skenes or even Jones. More polishing is needed. Fantastic prospect you have to feel good about. Solo depends on his fastball. Closer to 95 he will be something special. Closer to 90 then closer to mid back end. Needs that change up to be plus as well. Needs to have command. Highly variable future. 91 mph average change up he is a backend starter. 93 94 and plus change up he is a all star. Burrows was looking mid rotation. After injury who knows. I will pencil him in as a reliever moving forward. They probably will give him a chance to start and if he finds his change up or can learn a sweeper or even slider then he can absolutely start. Odds say he won’t fast enough and other guys will pass him up and he moves to pen.
Pirates rotation will be good for the rest of the decade though. They have so many arms that some will hit. No sure things and no can’t miss but this is about as close as you can get. Truly elite pitching system as good as any team in baseball.
User 3815330533
Thanks, Dream. I can’t comment on those you listed. I haven’t seen them or heard/read enough
Your note about Solo is spot on for me, hence my comment about Locke. Nothing wrong with that if he’s “crafty,” but too early to tell
Truth is, I put more credence in your thoughts about young pitchers than I do random comments about position players coming up through the pipeline. At least to me, there’s a great deal more to do in the player development area where the latter is concerned and where the Pirates are concerned, well….
So when this staff is established in a year or so, does Nutting significantly increase payroll to bring established players in to support it?
Sorry. A little Thursday humor
TheMan 3
Can either Dream or Tiredolderdude, in their respective opinions offer a rational explanation to why this organization refuses to promote either Bae or Gonzalez at a time when the offense has crumbled to below mediocrity?
Both are faring very well at Indy and actually so is Jake Lamb. It’s only been one day since the Psul Skenes promotion has been announced and yet several teams are promoting their players, teams that aren’t starving for runs
If just mind boggling that management is satisfied with this group of players
User 3815330533
I truly believe they’ve adopted Terrier’s earlier view that the bats will heat up. They seem to enjoy the just sit back, let’s wait and see approach
Look what they did with infielders last season
Somehow, maybe via magic, they’ll suddenly begin to hit.
There is so much deadwood here that it’s hard to know where to start
But no, it makes no sense to keep Bae, Gonzales and really, Peguero down on the farm when the team is in such straits
YourDreamGM
I got a lil carried away. Matoma is a teen from Africa. Throws mid 90’s. Raw as can be. Upside is hall of fame or he could never make it. Just made it to state side ball. Lots to develop. Reilly couldn’t even make Vanderbilt rotation. Most scouts say he is a reliever. I agree with Pirates giving him a starter path at least early on. Barco was a tremendous bargain. Lefty. Didn’t perform amazing in college. But college was Florida. Weak pitching development for such a big time program. Would have been a 1st rounder but had tj. Shim is their most talented minor league pitcher. Obviously needs a ton of development. Raw talent he is as good as just about anyone. Other guys undervalued projectible hs arms. More risk more reward. I would draft the same way.
YourDreamGM
Keep them down in AAA. They sure as heck won’t get any coaching at mlb level. Gonzales has a high K rate swing that MLB pitchers will take advantage of. Been working on limiting K’s. We will see. Bae is a ground ball machine. I don’t have him in future plans but hopefully he shows more power or draws more walks and then he is a MLB player. Triolo is only providing defense and position flexibility. I am all for seeing one of them take his spot. And then for the other taking the spot if when the replacement fails. Then Peguero taking that spot. Then Triolo coming back up to take his spot. Peguero has best upside. Best defensive ability after Triolo. Hopefully TJ starts showing the everyday 2b he was when drafted. Even better one of the other guys improves and can be.
Unless they taught Bae to play cf he isn’t replacing Jack. Cruz isn’t going down. Alika doesn’t play enough. So until injury there is only room for 1. I would have replaced Triolo already. And or fired Haines. I don’t know if it would make much of a difference but do something. I don’t like the wait and see approach.
User 3815330533
Eventually, they’re going to have to move Cruz. It’s just a given and to me, why they are keeping this logjam of middle infielders. Peguero and Gonzales up the middle. Cruz at 1st. Triolo or Alika is the defensive sub
Maybe Termarr makes it. Maybe not
They have real problems in the OF. I’ll give Suwinski another season. Olivares? Nope. Palacios? Uh…
If the stud pitching staff gels by 2026, and if the farm system looks this bad, Nutting will almost certainly have to open the checkbook and hopefully it wont be for aging outfielders who can’t hit anymore
Yeah. Nice dream
Mendoza Line 215
Paul- Gonzalez is up and Bae will be close if he continues to hit in AAA.
Pirates will sign an outfielder for next year in the off season and it will not be a one year deal.
I do not get excited about minor leaguers other than Skenes until they show real promise in AAA.
Mendoza Line 215
Tired-Amen
Consistency is beauty.
Mendoza Line 215
Falter is limited but has had two bad starts and five good ones.
Priester should be sent down.
TheMan 3
Odd that this site hasn’t reported that Gonzalez was promoted but the Trib has.
The Pirates signed an outfielder this past offseason and he’s been a complete waste of $4 million dollars so I don’t see Nutting approving a long term deal for another one, even just a two year contract
Between Rowdy and Taylor they’ve spent $7 million for two strikeout machines. Sorry that I don’t agree with your optimism, Mendoza, especially if either of them continues to sputter at the plate
User 3815330533
They’re going to have a real conundrum
An A+ pitching staff. A D- lineup around it
So what to do?
They have enough infielders. They’re going to need to either trade from their surplus of middle infielders and pitchers or sign someone to play outfield. Or two
And not the Michael Taylor types
If they wish to truly contend that is
YourDreamGM
1 Mike Gonzales is a nobody. Such a nobody you don’t even know his name.
2 It isn’t official yet per mlb transactions. Would take a writer following the Pirates close. I wouldn’t wish that on any writer.
YourDreamGM
Those infielders probably aren’t getting you a impact bat. Will have to part with a premium arm. Better to sign someone good or in Pirates case hope they get lucky with someone no other team thinks is worth much or anything.
TheMan 3
The problem with signing an outfielder unlike Taylor is money. $4 million, which is what was given to Taylor, is considered low price for a veteran outfielder. It will cost them double if not triple for a better outfielder that can hit the ball with some authority
I just don’t see Nutting agreeing to any outfielder for this price
TheMan 3
There’s always next year or the year after but by that time, it will be rebuild time again
User 3815330533
That’s the point, my friend. IF this pitching staff evolves with three studs like Jones, Skenes, Keller and with two good pitchers that plug in as well, they are faced with the knowledge they need a couple of players—solid outfielders, I’d think, who are upper tier
The Michael Taylor’s and Edwardo Olivares’s aren’t going to cut it. Suwinski will never be more than he was. Or is. That philosophy has to be shelved. Surely, they see what’s going on here.
And if not, and if they insist on sticking to the Rays model with subpar player development and continual misjudging of young player abilities, then yeah, hover around .500 for a couple of years until it’s time to burn it all down again
Maybe the next rebuild will go better
TheMan 3
According to WTAE, ticket prices have risen for Saturday’s game
I guess Nutting saw the fan interest and decided to make as much money as possible for at least one game
YourDreamGM
Hope the game gets rained out. If fools want to pay it good for Nutting.
TheMan 3
.Except that there is a possible fix, fire Haines. They fired Eckstein a few years back and even he was a better hitting coach, and he had less talent than this current roster
User 3815330533
Call Kevin Seitzer or Kevin Long. Offer to double their pay. Make a veiled comment that being the Pirates manager might be a real possibility very shortly. Double whatever they’re making in Atlanta or Philly
One, I doubt they’d still want to come
Two, I doubt they make a decipherable impact
Look, as a longtime coach, I’m really doubtful that guys already here can suddenly become .300 hitters. Better contact. Better plate discipline. Better approach. Better knowledge of strike zone, awareness of what pitchers are throwing, usage of scouting reports, sure
But overall, just what do people think a hitting coach is going to squeeze out of this lineup, anyway
Yeah, Haines is like Matt Canada. He’s in over his head. But jeez, the Steelers fire him, the Penguins fire Riorden, but the problems still come down to personnel
You’d like a system-wide hitting guru that translates to the younger players becoming better hitters. I get that. But fans thinking someone is going to come here and wave a magic wand just don’t understand the bigger picture
TheMan 3
I get what you’re saying, tiredolderdude about waving a magic wand and the batters suddenly become the second coming of Pete Rose, but changing the coach could also send a message to the players that mediocrity is no longer acceptable
Something has to change whether it’s the coach or the approach at the plate by the batters
stwawk
You think Bob Nutting is going to fix the offense?
Mendoza Line 215
Skeptical- I am not skeptical.They do not want to waste his 2024 innings in AAA.He will probably last five innings each start and maybe six depending on his pitch count.
LordD99
Free agent at 27.
Hotdog 2
Rather have jobe
Guard the Vogt
USAF Represent!!!!!
panj341
He is going to wonder why Indy has some better hitters than some of the Pirates such as Tellez, Triolo and Taylor.
User 3815330533
Don’t stop there. Suwinski at .180. How about Reynolds, who signed a nice contract and apparently turned in his bat. Or Hayes. He provides streaks here and there but like Reynolds, is a .240-.250 hitter
At least Cruz is heating up. Too bad his glove is made of iron
TheMan 3
Both Joe and Rowdy are constantly catching Cruz’ throws on a short hop
And every time the announcers claim how great Joe is with runners in scoring position then strikes out, I want to tell Joe Black to go back to Boston
Mendoza Line 215
Tired- Hayes just needs Joe Nunnaly back.
And where is Cruz’ hitting guru?
TheMan 3
I read somewhere and I can’t remember where, the organization was against Cruz using his own batting instructor last year because they want the players to focus on Haines’ instructions
Mendoza Line 215
That would make sense.
But what Cherington does not realize is that his way is not working and has not worked for three years.
That makes him part of a very serious problem.
octavian8
Just a note of caution to Pirate fans and I don’t want to rain on your parade but………Hunter Greene threw 100-102 when he came up and had to do TJ surgery. He’s just now showing signs of learning how to pitch and not just chuck fastballs. Be patient with him.
User 3815330533
Well stated. Unless I’m wrong, Greene threw a no-hitter against the Pirates…and lost. What a fireballer
Skenes has a number of pitches to complement his heat but in this day and age, your point is well taken. Hope they’re smart with him. Not like he and Jones can provide enough wins to make this team a contender
jimmyz
I was at that game, the Reds combined for a no hitter. Greene didn’t pitch the 9th, don’t remember if he even finished the 8th but he was at 115 pitches or so. Walks and groundouts gave the Bucs a 1-0 walkoff win. Fun game
Mendoza Line 215
Oct- That is why they have been careful with Skenes.
As Cherington said it is not an exact science.
But we all know what eventual happens to every pitcher who throws over 92 mph.
The Phillies top prospect had to get TJ after his first ST game last year.
Thanks for your comment.
User 3815330533
Simple physics in relation to human anatomy. Everyone and their grandmothers hit 95 on the gun now. Easy to understand the wear and tear on ligaments and nerves when kids have begun wearing them away since their teens.
They can “be careful” all they want, but it’s roulette. You hope for the best but you can’t fool nature
Mendoza Line 215
Tired- I’m sorry but I have to disagree with you here.
The grandmothers are barely touching 90 in more ways than one,but they still can get Pirate hitters out with moxie and guile.
Old York
I look forward to seeing him pitch and being proven wrong to think that he’s not ready for the majors, yet.
Mendoza Line 215
OY-What would be wrong is to waste his pitches in the minor leagues.
He will be encountering the best of the best but he is a quick learner.
Pirate fans should not expect him to be great from the start.
jimmyz
An ERA below 1, a WHIP below 1, a 50% GB rate and and 42% K rate isn’t hype, it’s dominant production.
stwawk
Yankees and Dodgers fans have something to look forward to in the near future — pulling off a heist and trading some bottom of the barrel prospects to the Pirates in exchange Skenes.
YourDreamGM
Will be more like 5 or 6 years and only if they don’t extend him. Probably won’t be Yankees either. They don’t trade for elite pitching often. Reynolds Hayes more their interest. Padres Dodgers if still contenders will be likely spots.
Mendoza Line 215
Jimmy- Trolls are out today.
And his AAA whiff rate is 55%.
joew
he didn’t pitch saturday according to the game logs, he pitched sunday and gave up 2 in 4.
I heard he had a rough outing this past week but cannot find the box score.
maybe over hyped but he is definitely a top prospect. Prospect lists are based off of more than just stats and Prospects are just that players sometimes bomb or take time to flush out or even just in an incompatible system. It happens but shouldn’t happen much less than lower first and later picks.
TheMan 3
He also pitched on 4 days rest on Sunday and for a reason. So he could see live action before being promoted
TheMan 3
where in my comment did I say the word “ Saturday “?
joew
I stand corrected. Sorry Jack i miss understood..
stwawk
This happened faster than I ever imagined. Looks like the Yankees or Dodgers will be getting Skenes a little earlier than than initially anticipated. We all know that in a year or two the Pirates will trade him. That’s what they do.
TheMan 3
you can predict the future like Nostradamus, maybe you should work in a Fortune Teller Shop, stwawk
You’ve said the same thing in your previous posts. Don’t you have anything constructive to say?
User 3815330533
And yet, what Hawk is alluding to is quite likely. Greener pastures. It’s been this way here since Bonds, Drabek and the gang, and they played on very good teams.
TheMan 3
They traded Cole with 2 years before he hit free agency but there’s no record of them doing what you’re suggesting, stwawk, trading an elite pitcher that they drafted with only 2 years of major league experience
Mendoza is right, the trolls are out in full force on this thread
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Exactly.
The top prospect lists are just totally bogus hype to get them people to watch and follow.
And the players are holograms and birds aren’t real.
Finally, someone sees the obvious truths.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“The top prospects list is totally bogus.”
“You clearly don’t understand even the most basic marketing strategy.”
OK….so…is it marketing? Or is it bogus?
Or are you going with both?
Mendoza Line 215
That is certainly what they did with their best pitcher from last year.
Like I said the trolls are out again.
Scott Kliesen
Maverick (Skenes) and Ice Man (Jones) are fixing to buzz some towers!
PNC Park is MLB’s new Danger Zone for opposing hitters!
Mendoza Line 215
Scott- Unfortunately It is the danger zone for Pirate hitters too.
RobM
Meh debut with eight runners on in four innings, but he’ll get better.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I really disliked and liked his delivery.
Disliked because it’s kind of ugly and not as fun to watch as many of the other elite pitchers, but liked because if anyone might* be able to avoid the standard MLB arm injuries, it would be a guy with such a simple motion.
*might, might, might