Back in January, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported on the future of the Athletics, suggesting a big jump in payroll was coming over the horizon. However, Rosenthal himself expressed serious doubt that any of it would actually come to pass.
“According to a source briefed on their plans,” Rosenthal wrote at the time, “the A’s project payrolls in the $130 to $150 million range during the ramp-up period before they move into their new park, then $170 million-plus once they are established in their fixed-roof stadium.”
Rosenthal remained skeptical of what he was hearing and even titled the piece “Why I remain skeptical about the A’s grandiose Vegas plans.” The skepticism, from Rosenthal or anyone else reading it, was and is completely understandable. Owner John Fisher has done little to earn any benefit of the doubt. In fact, he had given plenty of people to do the opposite.
Since Fisher took over as the club’s managing partner in November of 2016, the A’s have arguably received more attention for their bolt to Las Vegas than their on-field performance. They did put a nice run together from 2018 to 2020, making the playoffs three straight years. But when their win total dropped modestly to 86 in 2021, it was full-blown fire sale time. Matt Chapman, Chris Bassitt, Sean Manaea and Matt Olson were traded prior to the 2022 season, with Sean Murphy, Cole Irvin, Frankie Montas and others to follow.
The A’s have been one of the worst teams in baseball over the past three years while the headlines have mostly been about the club abandoning its fans in Oakland and the surrounding area, absconding to the east. The plan is for a new stadium to open in Las Vegas for the 2028 season, with a three-year stopover in a Triple-A ballpark in West Sacramento. The club didn’t seem to have much interest in staying in Oakland, as negotiations for a new stadium there didn’t gain much traction. Nor did the talks about staying beyond the end of the lease, even on an interim basis, hence the temporary move to West Sacramento.
Given the way the franchise has behaved, it’s natural to doubt that there is some massive pivot coming. According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, their payroll has been in the bottom third of the league for over a decade now, including being dead last for the past two years and 29th in 2022.
Getting up to the range described by Rosenthal above would be a massive jump. The club had a payroll of just $61MM in 2024, so we’re talking about more than doubling that. The franchise record payroll was $92MM back in 2019, so the proposed numbers are coming close to doubling that as well.
While that kind of leap might be extreme, it’s not impossible to imagine a scenario where Fisher is more motivated to support the Las Vegas Athletics than he was the Oakland Athletics. Even if he doesn’t care about the team or its fans in a direct sense, there’s the cold-hearted business angle. If you’ve seen the movie Major League, you get the gist here. The recent lack of investment in the club may have been an intentional way of lowering fan engagement, thus manufacturing the justification for the move.
After going through all the trouble of moving the club, all the paperwork and meetings involved, he’s undoubtedly hoping for some kind of benefit at some point. Per Mick Akers of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, the Fisher family are willing to put down roughly a billion of the $1.5 billion needed to build the stadium. Akers says that U.S. Bank reviewed the Fisher family finances and “concluded the Fishers have more than sufficient assets for the equity required to fund the stadium’s construction.”
That’s not especially surprising, considering the family situation. John’s parents Donald and Doris founded The Gap, the clothing chain. Donald died in 2009 but Forbes lists the family net worth as just under $9 billion, with John Fisher personally listed as having a net worth of just over $3 billion.
That gives them plenty of ability to pay for the stadium, but it seems fair to assume they’re not doing that out of the kindness of their hearts and envision getting that money back someday. It’s been speculated that the Vegas setting might mean the club is relying more on tourists to come to games as opposed to locals, when compared to other franchises. If that’s the case, there could be motivation to make more of an effort to sign stars and generate interest outside of Vegas. Many clubs are hemorrhaging TV money as the cable model collapses and the A’s reportedly got $70MM as part of their deal in 2024. That deal is supposed to end if the club leaves the Bay Area though it’s been reported that they may be able to rework it for the West Sacramento years, although presumably at a lower price point.
They will presumably find a new broadcast deal for Vegas down the line, but likely not at that price point. That will only put more pressure on the club to make money off attendance. Their new stadium only projects to have a capacity of 33,000, which will be the lowest in the majors and barely half of the stadium they are leaving. If they want to charge big money for tickets, they will need big demand. Ideally for ownership, that demand would be big right from the get-go, so winning some games while in West Sacramento could be a big priority.
We can’t know if this is actually the case, but perhaps it’s worth considering. The family largesse which allows the Fishers to cover the stadium costs could also allow them to run higher payrolls than they have in the past. They could simply decide to become a mid-market club if they wanted to. Many will take a “believe it when I see it” approach to this speculative scenario and that’s probably the smartest position to take, but there’s an argument that it’s in the Fishers’ own interest to take this path. Even if you’re the type of fan who considers John Fisher to be a cold-blooded lizard person with no warm feelings towards baseball or people, which would be understandable if you’re from Oakland and he has stolen your team from you, that wouldn’t necessarily conflict with him putting a good team on the field since that would be a good business decision.
These are all big ifs but they could have significant ramifications if there’s even partial truths within them, including shaking up baseball’s winter landscape. One more club willing to give out big contracts would be good for the players, as another bidder always helps with the supply-and-demand equation.
RosterResource has the club projected for $37MM next year, meaning they would have to spend over $20MM just to get up to 2024’s last-place figure. Many free agents won’t be excited about playing in a Triple-A park, so the A’s might have to wait out the market and pitch themselves to guys who don’t find the contract they were looking for. Taking on unwanted contracts from another club via trade would be another option to add payroll, without the player having a say in it. But that could also work to the benefit of players, as the other club could use their freed-up spending capacity to spend on someone else.
The American League West already has four fairly aggressive teams in it. The Astros have been one of the strongest clubs over the past decade. The Rangers spent aggressively in recent years, leading to a World Series title. The Angels haven’t been successful lately but it’s not for lack of trying, as they’ve been a top ten payroll club for most of this century. The Mariners don’t run massive payrolls but are one of the most active clubs on the trade market and have finished above .500 for four straight years. If the A’s take things up a notch, it could ramp up the level of competition in an already-strong division.
Despite the behavior of ownership, there have been some encouraging signs on the field lately for the A’s. They went 39-37 in the final three months of 2024, bolstered by strong performances from players like Mason Miller, Brent Rooker, Lawrence Butler and plenty of others.
If the club didn’t care about how it performed during its three-year exodus in West Sacramento, it would make sense to trade Rooker, since he’s slated for free agency after 2027. But they didn’t trade him at the deadline and general manager David Forst recently said they don’t plan to trade him this winter either. As mentioned, they don’t need to save money because there’s almost nothing on the books, but trading Rooker could surely bring in a haul of prospects that they are deciding not to reel in. That aligns with Forst recently saying the club is focused on adding to the major league roster, not trading big leaguers for prospects.
Whether the club has enough talent to compete in the immediate future is obviously debatable and depends on many factors. One of them is how much the club spends on bolstering the roster in that time frame. The general expectation of many people seems to be that the A’s will be as cheap as they have been in Oakland but it’s possible to imagine that they have been intentionally waiting to leave town before opening the proverbial purse strings. This would be especially frustrating for the fans in the Bay Area who have watched the club be starved for years, only to see them start living high on the hog after bolting. But after how much they’ve been hurt by Fisher already, would they really be that surprised?
Yankee Clipper
He’s worse for baseball than anything else. It’s hard to piss off the players, other owners, and fans all at once.
Bart Harley Jarvis
A veritable Triple Crown of shatting on everyone!
MLB Top 100 Commenter
Go, Sacramento A’s.
Juan Soto, Teoscar Hernandez, Roki Sasaki, and Blake Snell.
Let’s win the hot stove!
metsin4
That’s a tad more then the 60 million increase they are stating.
User 3222006999
Hey, I just saw a flying pig….! There goes another one…Huh?
HatlessPete
More like a series of pigs tripping on bad acid who mistakenly thought they could fly lol.
This one belongs to the Reds
“As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.”
Pigs too.
Bluesman99026
HAHAHA…. Mr. Carlson!
Great memories…..like him and Johnny with Pink Floyd in the background
Hahaha
And of course “Pigs on the Wing”
RodBecksBurnerAccount
“The A’s project payrolls in the $130 to $150 million range during the ramp-up period before they move into their new park”
“[the A’s are] projected for $37MM next year, meaning they would have to spend over $20MM just to get up to 2024’s last-place figure.
Using MLBTR predictions for each of those player’s contracts, they could add all of those players and stay under a $150 million payroll. Won’t happen obviously, but theoretically it could.
A's lover
hahahahahahahahahaha
thebirds
Why would you need to “rethink the Athletics?” They’re a real team. I assure you I’ve seen them play in real life.
Arnold Ziffel
One thing all Oaklanders need to quit crying about is the move. Only once since1968 did they ever draw more than 2 million. Fans that attended were the best, just not very many. They never drew when they had great teams.
Mpgan
The internet is a thing, the A’s have exceeded 2 million in attendance 12 times since 1988.
LordD99
“RosterResource has the club projected for $37MM next year…”
——
Teams spending to win are not the problem. Teams spending to lose…
Letsplaytwotomorrow
There will be more locals working the games than in the seats. Fans aren’t traveling to sit in 90+° heat either. Major League Black eye approaches.
Rumors2godsears
Yeah it’s been a real problem for the Dbacks..
This one belongs to the Reds
They have a retractable roof…as all ballparks should, but don’t.
Rumors2godsears
My point is high temperatures won’t stop people from coming to the park. The new A’s stadium will have air conditioning
Citizen1
Reinsdorf says and does worser
Hammerin' Hank
That’s what happens when you’re a cold-blooded lizard person.
pev4
False Steinbrenner
DarkSide830
John Fisher is a cheap grifter. He is 100% lying.
gbs42
Guys like that can do really well for themselves.
Pads Fans
He inherited all his wealth and his cash flow outside of what he grifts from other owners through revenue sharing is minimal.
User 3222006999
He should run for president. Those flying pigs I saw were just fat Condors. I didn’t even know we had them in Illinois in November.
Rexhudler86
@darkside830. Trying to sell season tickets in Sacramento. Fisher probably thinks the attendance issue is because of the location, and not the fans refusing to show up because of him.
Longtimecoming
Bezos or Gates buys the A’s and immediately signs the top 25 FAs.
Could be fun to watch.
Side note – 1 correct guess wins the FA contest!
DarrenDreifortsContract
Those kind of guys care about making money, not winning.
Canuckleball
But winning makes money.
More good investments in the roster often mean more wins, and more wins equals more future ticket sales and more future merch sales.
Smart business people usually understand that.
metsin4
He’s only 21 games under .500 since owning the team.
enricopallazzo
He hasn’t won or lost anything. The team did because of good scouting and a smart front office.
metsin4
Well he is the one that put them there or kept them there.
enricopallazzo
He became managing partner after Beane and Forst were in place, plus scouting director Billy Owens. So no, he didn’t make any decisions related to the on-field product.
SweetBabyRayKingsThickThighs
Bezos went to congress for funding his space program he doesn’t want to pay for and fights labor laws so his workers can’t take a piss and you think he’ll run a high payroll on a club he has no connections to.
C Yards Jeff
Rather have Fisher than Moreno as an owner any day.
Hate him all you want, but there does seem to be a philosphy pattern in place that produces winning records for a couple years before falling off a cliff. Moreno the meddler has run that ship a ground for a bunch of consecutive losing seasons. What’s it up to now? 8 yrs, 9? Oof.
Jim T.
Moreno basically gave up after his bribery scheme got uncovered and the platinum triangle thing isn’t ever happening. Although the fact is we could have told him that it wasn’t going to happen a decade before he bribed the city and got caught by the feds (not him personally of course, but the mayor, a councilmember, and his employees).
Rexhudler86
@longtimecoming I don’t think fisher can Sell the team right away without paying a steep tax to owners.
Pads Fans
In order to sell within 3 years he has to pay the $500 million fee to MLB to move the team that the other owners waived.
Rexhudler86
@pads fan I couldn’t remember exactly, but it’s not going to happen either way.
Pads Fans
Definitely not going to happen. I don’t think a stadium is ever built in Las Vegas. Fisher has actually been closer to actually starting construction in the Bay Area twice.
The stadium in Las Vegas is not an independent project. It is contingent on Bally’s building a new casino and they are in worse financial shape than Fisher.
kylegocougs
I’d be shocked if they spent 75 million this year. But imagine would kind of damage you could do buying prospects if you took on like the three to five worst contracts in baseball?
kevnames42
That’s a great point! If he’s willing, that’s an interesting strategy to take before the LV move
MatthewStairs
He’s not willing
bojacksonship
Even if they DID actually want to spend more money, who the hell wants to voluntarily sign a contract to play in AAA ballpark and live in Sacramento? The only FAs they’re gonna be able to attract are guys nobody else wants who’re just trying to get their pension.
solaris602
Most of the A’s free agent additions will come from the group of players who are still unsigned in mid February. Boras and Fisher should be an interesting pairing – the sheister meets the huckster.
bucsfan0004
John Fisher is the worst owner in baseball.
Signed,
A Pirates fan
Screamer
This is 100% true. Signed an A’s fan
zacharydmanprin
Rob Manfred and John Fisher are a very specific kind of evil. Where stupidity and ineptitude are rewarded and the winking never ends.
Jiggs
Leave it to Rosenthal to stir up Drama to feed his self importance.
Blackpink in the area
I really dont see the point in them spending until they are physically in Las Vegas. At that point sure but not until then.
sw
Then they’re never going to spend b/c Fisher is not bringing that team to Las Vegas, I garuantee it.
jbigz12
Bad bet. They’ve left Oakland to play in a AAA ballpark. They’ve got financing lined up with US Bank and Goldman to finance the build.
Fisher wants minority partners to reduce his initial equity investment but this thing is happening. The Vegas A’s are coming.
MatthewStairs
They have $300m “lined up” they still need to find investors to pay twice the valuation of the team unless they’re doing something John Fisher has never done, come out of pocket.
They’ve been looking for investors for a year, so far no takers.
enricopallazzo
They have promises of financing. Not actual financing.
forepj
I have a bridge I’d like to sell to the writer of this post.
nukeg
I understand the piss and vinegar for the owner. But anyone who’s been to a home As game in the last 10 years would understand the move to LV. The Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum is not in a safe area. The Raiders moved for crying out loud.
kellin
A friend and his wife moved from SoCal to Oakland a while back. After *he* got mugged twice in a year, they moved back.
GoAsOakland
Plenty of pro stadiums are in “rough” areas and the coliseum certainly is. BUT it’s also super safe _at_ the stadium. Taking Bart (subway) or parking in the lot, I’ve never felt even the slightest bit unsafe. (But what do I know, I’ve only been to 400+ games). People have gotten their cars broken into outside the stadium complex, but I’ve never even heard of a single instance of it happening IN the parking lot. (Not to say that it never has, but Oakland has a massive amount of fear-mongering trolls, most of which have never been to Oakland…)
metsin4
Kindle weird how the state passed by an overwhelming majority to start prosecuting laws again but I guess it was the fear mongering trolls making up Californias crime problem.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Mets fan talking about crime in California, cute. Yes, violent shoplifting was taking many lives. Worry about your own slice of paradise.
metsin4
Are you joking? I guess crime is OK as long as no one dies. My slice of paradise is doing just fine. We have common sense.
Bart Harley Jarvis
No, I’m not joking and you’re unserious.
metsin4
I guess why that’s why everyone’s leaving Oakland because people like you are serious about moronic comments like that.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Please, keep proving my point.
Pads Fans
People are leaving NYC at a faster rate than Oakland.
-3.1% vs -0.9%
metsin4
I’m a Mets fan. I watch my games away from NYC. But yes people would be wise not to live in either places. I definitely moved away from the Northeast.
Pads Fans
Violent crime rates per capita in the US for 2024
St. Louis, Missouri
Memphis, Tennessee
Little Rock, Arkansas
Birmingham, Alabama
Baltimore, Maryland
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Cleveland, Ohio
Stockton, California
Detroit, Michigan
Kansas City, Missouri
San Bernardino, California
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Indianapolis, Indiana
Murder, manslaughter, robbery involving a weapon, s. exu.al assault, and aggravated assault = violent crime.
The national violent crime rate in the United States was 381 incidents per 100,000 people in 2022. All of those cities listed are over 1000 per 100,000 people.
Notice what city is not listed.
Pads Fans
NYC is safer than
St. Louis, Missouri
Memphis, Tennessee
Little Rock, Arkansas
Birmingham, Alabama
Baltimore, Maryland
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Cleveland, Ohio
Stockton, California
Detroit, Michigan
Kansas City, Missouri
San Bernardino, California
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Indianapolis, Indiana
and about 43 other US cities.
metsin4
Notice that the Oakland police department reported only 3% of violent crime, .1% of property crime and 86% of shootings weren’t reported. Yes it’s heaven on Earth in Oakland.
metsin4
For crimes reported and prosecuted. But crime is not the big deterrent in going to NYC. It costs about $100 dollars in tolls. There is no where to park. It’s extremely expensive. I paid $300 dollars for normal breakfast for 6 people in Times Square. I go to a Mets game in Atlanta or Washington for less then half the price.
Pads Fans
Umm, no. But thanks for posting BS we can all laugh at. At least you are a consistent liar and troll.
Pads Fans
I take the subway from Manhattan to Flushing. 2.90 each way. Costs more for a hot dog at Petco.
Bart Harley Jarvis
I believe the official term is ‘alternative facts’.
User 3222006999
Pads Fans- Chicago?
metsin4
Great I don’t live in Manhattan.
User 3222006999
Metsin4- Decades?
metsin4
What did lie about? Calling someone a liar and troll doesn’t work to prove your point. It actually just shows you have nothing to defend with a valid argument.
metsin4
The Oakland Police department is providing alternative facts? I guess they are the bad guys.
Pads Fans
Uncle Mike, just outside that list. Like any big city they have more violent crime in total numbers, but their per capita numbers are under 1000 per 100,000.
Pads Fans
Even if you are taking the LIRR into Flushing its not going to cost $20, let alone $100. Round trip from Union Station in DC or Boston to NYC plus the subway fare to Flushing is still less than $100.
Pads Fans
You are providing alternative facts. That is called lying in my book. FBI stats are only for fully reporting jurisdictions.
Bart Harley Jarvis
No, you are. I thought that was obvious.
numberoneslayerfan
can we just say that both nyc and the bay area are safer than say, philadelphia or detroit
BleedGreen
Portland , OR?
Bart Harley Jarvis
What do the statistics tell us. I live in Philadelphia and the Bay Area. I feel safe in both locales.
numberoneslayerfan
i don’t want to argue with you my friend, i like both cities as well as new york
DanUgglasRing
I lived in Oakland for five years in the 2000s when the big bad scary crime rates were even higher than they are now. Funny how at the time it felt exactly like every other metro city I’ve been to in my life. There are teams in Baltimore Los Angeles and Kansas City, Chicago, Houston, I mean come on man this is such a tired and piss poor scare mongering cauldron of nonsense. You can’t tell me for one second Oakland is any worse off than Chicago LA or Houston. You ever been to New York? Please.
Pads Fans
Bart, I was answering Metsin4000
Bart Harley Jarvis
I was answering metsin4 and numberoneslayerfan. You and I are on the same page.
HatlessPete
Your key mistake was expecting to pay reasonable prices in some tourist trap in times Square homie lol.
metsin4
LOL. Like the rest of the city is cheap. I guess that’s why 3.7% moved away homie.But I guess you fail to realize that when people visit the city then they probably want to go to the tourist areas.
HatlessPete
Never said it was cheap lol. And plenty of people visit NYC with no interest in eating in or visiting extremely touristy areas like times Square. If you’re making the decision to visit NYC and plan your trip in ways that predictably and unneccessarily add to the expense that’s on u bruh. Is it gonna be as cheap as visiting a place with a lower cost of living? Of course not but that’s basically common knowledge and there are ways to mitigate it.
numberoneslayerfan
wow, we’re still talking about this?
Bart Harley Jarvis
I attended about five A’s games at the Coliseum each season during the past eight years. I never once encountered any situation that was remotely dangerous. The Coliseum had good security in the park and out in the parking lot.
Unless you have personal experience that was otherwise, you’re just spreading urban myths and internet nonsense. Both teams left because of money and poor ownership.
metsin4
It was just a coincidence it was the same city? Keep telling yourself that.
Steinbrenner2728
I used to always attend games at the Coliseum when the Yankees would visit the A’s, so no, it’s not a coincidence.
Pads Fans
No. But we would have understood Fisher building a new park at any of the three sites in the Bay Area that he pulled out of at the last minute of negotiations.
Acoss1331
Pads Fans,
I didn’t see Chicsgo on that list you put up. I’ve lived here all my life, and been told it’s such a dangerous city. I won’t deny that there are rough parts, but you have to go out of your way to them. I live in an area with Hispanics and Blacks, all mid to low middle class, never had any violent issues.
Pads Fans
Chicago has a large number of crimes, but its also a large city. Per capita its just off that list with less than 1000 per 100,000 population.
Before I closed my Chicago offices I had a brownstone on W Warren off Leavitt west of the United Center. Was told it was a “bad neighborhood at night”, but I went jogging at night and never had any issues.
Hammerin' Hank
But sports teams never move because their current stadium is deemed to be in an unsafe area. That has absolutely nothing to do with it. They move because they think they’re getting a better financial deal somewhere else. It’s all about the money, like everything is.
enricopallazzo
You can build in various spots that aren’t on the same property/location. Way more money to be made staying in northern CA but Fisher doesn’t have a great business mind.
fred-3
No one significant is going to want to spend the next few summers in a minor league park in Sacramento. They might be players when they actually move to Vegas but let’s see that happen first.
Canuckleball
I think that’s the thing right there. He may be willing to spend money (I doubt it) but players have to be willing to take it.
I think a lot of players will be hesitant to sign on. Unless he goes full Cohen, it will take a few years for him to start rebuilding faith in the players that he is actually going to spend money. Waiting till Vegas makes the most sense.
C Yards Jeff
How much he let’s Forst spend is between those two. What I like about their relationship is that Forst is a good foot soldier. IE he’s given a budget and adheres to it. And there’s no indication that Fisher meddles in player personnel decisions. I like their future.
Brick House Coffee Tables Inc
I think they will collect non-tendered guys. For example, they could probably use a RH bench bat who can play all four corner positions acceptably as a backup and be able to slot in for two weeks if one of the starters goes on the IL. Patrick Wisdom of the Cubs doesn’t get on base enough to fit that mold as a major league signing, but as an NRI he could work out.
Hammerin' Hank
A hitter coming off a bad season might want to sign a one-year deal to play there, if the park is as hitter-friendly as advertised.
goob
And that would be taken into account by any potentially interested teams – nobody’s gonna be fooled.
letsgooakland123
Good article, although I tend to think he’s lying about raising payroll.
I’m sure this article won’t bring out the anti-Oakland trolls
Pads Fans
Its Fisher. He is lying about everything.
davemlaw
The roster is going to be better in 2025 and they will surprise.
I could see them going .500. They have a really good young Short Stop among some other talent.
CCCTL
Jacob Wilson – WRC+ 86, ISO 0.065, -0.4 DRS -2 OAA, -0.5 UZR all accumulated in 28 games, after being drafted in 2023 and rushed up because Nick Allen couldn’t hit for power or average (which is why they swapped him to the Braves for a reliever prospect).
A featherweight bat with poor range and sloppy fielding, but hey, he can hit for low average!
That’s not what anyone would call a “really good young shortstop”.
Bart Harley Jarvis
It’s a small sample size, but yes, it wasn’t pretty. Wilson needs some time in AAA.
Henry Bolte is another nice player who’s in AA. The A’s do have some young players/prospects to be excited about, but the revolving door has always been a fact of life with this franchise — going back to Connie Mack’s Philadelphia A’s.
davemlaw
Here are Wilson’s scouting grades:
Hit: 70 | Power: 45 | Run: 50 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55
DRAFTED 2023, 1st round (6)
He’s only 22 and doesn’t have a lot of pro experience.
For a team like the A’s that can give a young player time to develop at the MLB level I’d say he’s a very good young SS, as would any other intelligent observer. He’s also 6’2″ and will develop more power as his body fills out.
Bart Harley Jarvis
I’m sold.
lloyd_christmas
i did not have the words “cold-blooded lizard person” on todays MLBTR bingo card.
StudWinfield
I miss the good ole days when wealthy sports owners spent out of pocket, year after year, to improve lousy franchises. Oh wait, that’s never happened.
Informed Sportsball Discussion
Ray Kroc did it with the Padres. Saved them from moving, to boot.
Pads Fans
Mets with Cohen. Padres with both Moores and Seidler. Orioles new owner. That is just the last few years.
Don’t let the facts stand in the way of preaching your narrative. Most owners ARE weasels sucking at the taxpayer teat.
Fisher is the worst kind of weasel. He is a trust fund baby whose wealth was created by his parents who founded and built the GAP and he is sucking at the teat of revenue sharing and now wants to suck at the teat of taxpayers too.
StudWinfield
Cohen is not operating the Mets at a net loss year to year. I’m open to be proven otherwise but I find it highly unlikely that either the Padres or Orioles are operating at a net loss. I find Kroc doing it in the ’70’s with SD believable.
Also, by out of pocket, I am not including the initial capital investment needed to acquire the franchise.
Pads Fans
Padres had a $257 million year ending payroll and $290 million CBT payroll with $410 million in revenue in 2023. Pretty sure that was a net loss. In 2024 they probably didn’t.
The Mets have slightly lower revenue than the Braves who we know from their shareholder reports had revenue of $546 million and $574 million. The Braves are one of two teams owned by publicly traded companies that we get to see their books. Cohen had year ending payroll of $319 million and $324 million in 2023 and 2024 with CBT payroll of $374 million and $356 million. He most certainly did dig into his own pockets both of those years.
The new owner of the Orioles said this offseason that he is willing to go into the red. He hasn’t done it yet.
Hammerin' Hank
Ted Turner did it for many years.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Let’s not forget that Ted put on a uniform and attempted to manage the team in the dugout. Good times, good times…
A's lover
Mike Illitch spent big out of his pocket (overspent) trying to bring a championship to Detroit not that long ago. They paid Miguel Cabrera over $30 million in 2023!
GoAsOakland
Every writer that writes these sorts of articles and _doesn’t_ bring up that Fisher also owns MLS’s SJ Earthquakes, is not doing their job. He promised to raise payroll after he got his beautiful stadium, (that is now about 10 years and he _already_ has been saying it’s not up to par and needs to be replaced) all the while not fulfilling his promises. You can check out this SF Chronicle article from last year: sfchronicle.com/sports/article/john-fisher-runs-ea…
The one major difference is that he actually does go to Quakes games. He’s a Giant’s fan (and one of their former owners and he’s ALWAYS hated the A’s and the city of Oakland)
Old York
@GoAsOakland
Jokeland is a terrible city that should be demolished.
Bart Harley Jarvis
Since cities and people aren’t disposable, I’m not sure actually how that works other than Carthage (or maybe if you’re General Sherman).
MatthewStairs
For being such a terrible city it sure does have super high property values.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
The areas around Berkeley (North Oakland, Rockridge and the East Oakland Hills) are posh. From downtown south to San Leandro is where you need to keep your head on a swivel….
Pads Fans
Directly east of downtown Oakland is Lake Merritt. Its gorgeous there. The place property values are skyrocketing the fastest are in the Jack London Square area which is directly south of downtown.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
Jack London is popular with metropolis yuppie transplants. Problem is you don’t wanna be in the downtown area when the sun sets. Definitely have to really dress down if you have any money….
Pads Fans
We used to walk from my office downtown to my place in Jack London Square area every night we were in town and pretty late at night. 11pm to 1am. In tech that is pretty common hours to finish up a day. Never had a problem.
Maybe stop flashing the 1 carat earrings and gold grill and you would be ok.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
Yeah if you’re wearing a hoodie, jeans and skate shoes like everyone else….
Pads Fans
About half the time jeans and a polo shirt with my company name on it. It is just not that bad. Try Memphis or St Louis at night some time. That will scare the bejeezus out of you .
Steinbrenner2728
The Earthquakes finished at a lowly 6 wins – 3 draws – 25 losses this year, too
Pads Fans
Maybe they will be relegated to the USL. The leaders of the Western division New Mexico United promoted. do they do that in US soccer?
retire21
No they do not.
Pads Fans
Then I guess Fisher is safe to run his MLS team into the ground like he did his MLB team without worrying about being sent to soccer minor leagues.
seamaholic 2
Oakland stole the A’s from KC in the first place.
wjf010
KC stole the A’s from Philadelphia in the first place
Informed Sportsball Discussion
Philadelphia stole the A’s from non-existence in the first place.
920falcon
Good one.
Steinbrenner2728
Sorry Oklahoma City stole the Sonics from you, seamaholic 2.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I miss the Sonics!
BleedGreen
Its the Green and Gold
yunieskyichiro
Rendón @ 3B, Story @ SS, Báez and Benitendi in OF, and DeGrom on the mound. There’s your 150 mil payroll along with a crap ton of prospects ready by late 2027. It’s genius.
yunieskyichiro
Plus, those are all off the books by 2028.
Canuckleball
That is a feasible way for them to spend money.
Blackpink in the area
We would have teams like this every year if there was a salary floor. Like the NBA. Yeah that teams gonna suck but it might.not in 3 years.
metsin4
Getting Degrom isn’t the joke you’re making it out to be. I would put him odds on favorite by a long shot to win Cy Young this year.
yunieskyichiro
I’d love to take your $.
'Tang It
Story is actually important to the red Sox. They can have yoshida though
Old York
Move the A’s back to Philadelphia and rebuild Connie Mack Stadium.
Bart Harley Jarvis
You’ll get no argument from me. But there’s now a church on the former site at 21st and Lehigh, so you might get some pushback from the congregation.
ClevelandSteelEngines
bring sarandon in to give em the church of baseball
Pads Fans
Did you know that Shibe Field was the first of the steel and concrete stadiums in the US?
I wonder how many inside the park HR guys like Rickey Henderson and Bobby Witt would have hit on balls that got past the CF?
Pads Fans
If you believe anything Akers writes, I have beachfront property in Arizona between Phoenix and Tucson I would like to sell you. Akers was totally against this stadium deal and pointing out every flaw until John Fisher invested $125k in the LVRJ ensuring he still had a job.
Fisher has hired two companies to try to find him a loan and both have failed. That included Goldman Sachs, the gold standard when it comes to procuring financing of that size. ALL he could get commitments for is a $300 million loan. That is it. The rest has to come directly out of his pocket.
He hired a third company, Galatioto Sports Partners, to try to sell minority partnerships. They have had ZERO bites.
The vast majority of John Fisher’s personal wealth is the A’s and the San Jose Earthquakes Soccer Club. MLB and MLS prohibit him from using the teams as collateral for loans of that size. Nearly all of the rest is GAP stock. His other families wealth is based on their ownership of GAP stock.
To get a loan using securities of any kind as the collateral, you have to put up between 3 and 10 times as much stock as you want to borrow. So in the Fisher family’s case, $3-10 billion to get a $1 billion loan. The higher the risk the loan represents and the higher the volatility of the security, the more you have to put up. That in 2 years Fisher has not been able to get the B++ level loan for the $1 billion needed above and beyond the loan I mentioned above and that the state of Nevada is requiring for him to collect on that $380 million in taxpayer money shows clearly that the family does not have the amount of GAP stock to secure the loan.
Until and unless Fisher is able to find an investor willing to give him $500 million for a minority share in the team, he cannot get the financing to build the ballpark.
MatthewStairs
Wow Pads Fan, this is absolutely 100% factual and just incredibly dead on. Thank you for posting it.
westcasey
I can’t say that what you wrote is right or wrong, but it was well written !
It’s refreshing to read such a comment.
I think the league should get rid of Fisher. He just seems like a very lousy owner.
Acoss1331
Can’t the MLB owners just oust him behind closed doors, and spin it off to the public that Fisher wants to focus on his MLS team, that owning multiple teams has expected him and he needs to prioritize his time, or some BS like that?
YankeesBleacherCreature
Not really. MLB had to sue and force Frank McCourt to sell to eventual buyer Guggenheim. McCourt was negligent in running the Dodgers and tanked the franchise’s value for no valid business reasons. Can’t make the same argument for Fisher as they played in Oakland and never drew well at the Coliseum. I think MLB will give Fisher at least five years in Vegas before raising their pitchforks.
MatthewStairs
Unclear if they ever make it in Vegas. Wonder how long they’ll give them in sac at a minor league park.
daddyshark423
They were drawing fine when he bought the team 20 years ago. He drove the attendance into ground by fire selling the roster every few years.
CleaverGreene
First thing he should do is buy real estate (any kind) and then value it himself at ridiculously high levels. Next, borrow off those assets. There is always a bank around that will bend over for a fake billionaire.
m34josh
Can’t believe MLB gives revenue sharing to a team with a family worth $12 Billion signing the checks
920falcon
And I can’t believe MLB gives revenue sharing to a team that owns another team’s tv rights. That’s a fight for another day, and nothing to do with the Athletics, aside from, MLB revenue sharing on the whole needs a serious revamp.
This one belongs to the Reds
Too many mistake personal wealth for what the franchise brings in (or does not). One has nothing to do with the other. No one will operate their business at a loss for long or throw good money after bad.
m34josh
According to this post, they’ve been turning a profit off the TV contract alone when compared to their payroll. And that doesn’t include revenue sharing or ticket and merch sales
jvent
The A’s aren’t signing any big name guys unless it’s in March right before the start of the season and that player wasn’t signed yet , so trade Mason Miller and Rooker to the Mets we’ll give you Baty, Gilbert, Tidwell, Megill and McNeil
Non Roster Invitee
The Earthquakes are terrible.
It is costing more to move the A’s to Sactown than to just stay in Oakland for three years. He really wanted out.
MatthewStairs
Fisher isnt paying for it, the league is
Informed Sportsball Discussion
“The Earthquakes are terrible.”
Seismically bad, you could say.
AllAboutBaseball
I spent more on hot dogs and sodas at the ballpark than he does on free agents
sw
What a trash article. This is basically the same as the Atlantic publishing articles about how Donald Trump could unite the country. That’s NOT who Trump is and there’s no reason to think otherwise.
Spending money on the team in NOT who Fisher is and there is no reason to think otherwise. (And reason to think he’ll remain cheap considering he still does not have financing lined up up. The fact that this article quotes Mick Ackers is a pretty big tell that the author doesn’t know what he’s talking about)
Informed Sportsball Discussion
You seem nice.
themustache
Poor snowflake. What was so offensive to you? I’m not entirely sure how either comment would rub you the wrong way when both are based in actual fact.
Mikenmn
“Even if you’re the type of fan who considers John Fisher to be a cold-blooded lizard person with no warm feelings towards baseball or people, which would be understandable if you’re from Oakland and he has stolen your team from you…” Nice line Darragh
Bless his heart, right?
Patriot12992
I understand that Fischer is not popular and it’s clear Darragh is not a fan but this article deals in a lot of conjecture, the line about lowering fan engagement to manufacture a way to leave is borderline conspiratorial. I usually find MLBTR articles to be abit more level headed than that.
Pads Fans
We found Fisher or Kaval’s burner account. Kaval literally said that was what the team was doing in terms of fan engagement to manaufacture a way to leave. Not a conspiracy at all when the President of the team says it straight up.
Patriot12992
You would have to show me that quote, the only thing I have seen that comes close is his admission that the ownership group likes getting more revenue sharing. Whenever you cut against the narrative people are gonna come after you but Kaval did go to bad for the Howard terminal project, unfortunately for a’s fans none of that worked out.
daddyshark423
Are you kidding? That was like the “well, duh” line of the article. No you’re totally right…they were trying to draw more fans by selling off all the players for peanuts and losing 110 games!
baseballteam
Wander Franco
Pads Fans
Just got arrested on gun charges in the DR.
ceol.mor
The only thing that needs to happen is for the A’s to stay in Sacramento!
MarkTwain60
Bart Harley Jarvis has some logical points and, depending on perspective, maybe not the entire facts. The Coliseum has many good points: easy freeway access, easy BARTD access and decent weather. I have attended games on and off for many years. In the Coliseum and the parking lot, I’ve never had an issue. If you park outside the lot, your car will be ripped apart ( happened to me). BARTD is ok due to the numbers of fans leaving at once. Depending on time of night, BARTD gets interesting in a bad way. The area around the Coliseum is bad all day.
GAP is a publicly traded stock and margin trading is usually a 2:1 requirement. Yeah, it is a big-time scary way to raise money but I’m not sure how the Fisher family is approaching this issue.
In fairness, I am appalled Nevada has made any effort for the A’s. There are many better priorities that are better than dealing with Fischer..
Pads Fans
Margin trading is borrowing money to make trades and it requires you to deposit cash into a margin account. That is different than using a security like a stock as collateral for a loan.
Gumby82
The who? The what? FJFJFJFJFJFFJFJFJFFJFJ FJFJFJFJFJFFJFJFJFFJFJ FJFJFJFJFJFFJFJFJFFJFJ
numberoneslayerfan
gumby are you ok
Gumby82
No. FFFFFUUUUUCCCCKKKKKKKKK JOHN FISHER!!!
numberoneslayerfan
i wholeheartedly agree with you
920falcon
Honest question: what motivated Fish to buy the team in the first place? Did he think he was getting a new stadium somewhere in the Bay Area?
m34josh
Yes. He originally bought the A’s with Lew Wolff. Wolff was frat bothers with Bud Selig, which made them confident they would get a new ballpark
Big whiffa
Kinda surprised about stadium size ! I was surprised about how long it takes to build it too. Seems a slow and peculiar process for a booming fast life city like Vegas.
Also it was really weird that they just didn’t move into the 3A field in Vegas. If 33k is big enough in the end, with the goal to drive up ticket price, then why not 10k in the meantime and operate in their future home town ?
m34josh
If they moved to the Vegas AAA facility now, they would lose the entire TV deal money. They will likely still retain part of it by playing in Sac
Pads Fans
The MLBPA already nixed the Las Vegas AAA park as well as the A’s spring training facility. That is why they have had to entertain so many other options.
Rsox
The A’s may be a fun team to watch but are they dark horse wild contenders? Possibly. MLB playing meaningful playoff race games, or even playoff games in a AAA stadium is yet another example of Manfred’s genius
daddyshark423
lol, why would that be a good thing? It’s not going to happen, but still.
Rsox
It’s not, which is my point. Anyone referring to “Manfred” and “Genius” are pointing out the stupidity/absurdity of the situation
CarolinaCubsandKush
Yeah… I put the A’s down for exactly zero free agents in the top 50 contest.
all in the suit that you wear
I need to think about the A’s before I rethink the A’s.
No Salary Cap For You! (Come Back One Year)
Who other than bottom of the barrel free agents passed by the 29 other teams would even consider wanting to play with them for the next three – five years at the least? I’d wouldn’t be shocked if even their draftees refused to sign.
adb65
No, you don’t need to rethink the Athletics.
-A former 20+ year A’s fan
James Midway
He is one of the welfare recipients. He can make a ton of money without putting out much himself. From a business perspective, why would he do anything different? From a sports perspective he has no business owning a sports team if he has no intention of making it a winner.
greg1
There is no way Fisher is spending anything of significance in the next two years. Moving into a AAA stadium in a town that will ultimately not now a permanent home for the team and questionable TV revenues?! Not exactly a formula for spending.
The A’s last year in Sactown before moving to LV is the earliest that this team will spend money.
bcjd
It feels to me like there has been more gnashing of teeth about the A’s move to Vegas than just about any other team relocation since the Dodgers left Brooklyn. I certainly don’t remember this kind of outcry when the Expos left Montreal.
Devlsh
I don’t have a dog in this fight and Fisher may be a terrible owner (I don’t know) but I will say this:
Fans and the media are fond of ripping owners who don’t spend money, even though owners, cities, and teams are not all equal. The A’s were a successful franchise for several years….and as I recall, attendance was still never good. They won 97 games in both 2018 and 2019 and ranked 27th and 24th in attendance. I don’t know their TV rights situation but I doubt that was all that lucrative either. So expecting an owner to spend on the same level as owners with deeper pockets or like a team/city with better financial backing/fan support is unfair/unrealistic.. This problem will never be solved until there’s a salary cap/floor putting all teams on a comparable footing.
Two things can be true at the same time: Fisher may be a bad owner, but his spending on the A’s and his decision to move on may also be justified.
m34josh
Their tv deal paid them $67 million last season. When you add revenue sharing, plus ticket and merch sales (when they actually fielded decent teams and sold tickets), he is doing just fine. He just doesn’t care about winning
MatthewStairs
@devish, the only reason Fisher moved the team is because MLB took away his revenue sharing.
Also the A’s attracted over 2 million fans in 2014 and that offseason they gutted the team. Trading Donaldson in his arb years and trading away cespedes and imploding the roster.
They also notoriously tarped off tons of seating, refusing to uncover it and turning away fans because they were “sold out”.
Ownership voluntarily suppressed attendance.
This is from an article in 2012
“A’s management said Friday that it does not plan to sell 20,878 of O.co Coliseum’s 55,945 seats next week for the A’s division showdown with the Detroit Tigers. Those seats account for about 37 percent of the Coliseum’s baseball seating capacity, and A’s management has sealed them off with tarps since 2006 due to low attendance.
But now the Oakland A’s are drawing sellout crowds. So many fans showed up for the last game of the season on Wednesday that A’s management warned people to stay away because there were no tickets left.
Fans are demanding that the team remove the tarps to let more people in – some have started a petition via a website called Removethetarps.com. Many have pelted A’s management with complaints.”
Devlsh
Good stuff, Matthew, let’s talk.
2014 seems to have been a highwater mark, and it still ranked Oakland 24th in MLB in attendance, Despite numerous successful seasons, I can’t recall the last time Oakland ranked higher than 19th or so, and most seasons, it’s been near much closer to the bottom; they haven’t drawn even a million fans since 2019.. When a team draws that poorly, owners are going to consider relocation.
And when you say they gutted the team, it’s not unusual for small market teams to put together a contender, enjoy a short window of success, and tear it down again when players become too expensive. To be fair, Oakland has done that better and faster than most; Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Kansas City, Florida, Cincinnati, etc have often wandered in the rebuild desert for much longer periods. Billy Beane deserves major plaudits for his ability to rebuild rapidly.
I recall Minnesota ‘tarping’ off part of their stadium years ago and it’s certainly been the trend toward smaller ballparks (a trend that I don’t quite understand). That said, perhaps you or someone smarter than me can better explain why teams would want to draw fewer fans or eliminate the ability to occasionally draw large ones?
Samuel
Devlsh;
This crying over Oakland is nuts. Facts are this:
The A’s left the Coliseum. The Warriors were sold years ago to well-heeled investors that revamped the organization (into a championship one); had an arena built in SF; and moved the team there from the arena across the street from the Coliseum. The Raiders moved from the Coliseum….Twice.
Oh, if only the owner had spent more money the fans would have turned out in droves.
Read the book Charlie Finley’s daughter wrote about the struggles he had in Oakland when he moved the A’s from KC. Fans didn’t show up for years, He tried everything. Finally when the young A’s that Finley built primarily through the draft became championship caliber – fans showed up for the playoffs. Then free agency came about. Finley couldn’t pay his stars. They went to big market teams. The Bay Area baseball fans went back to supporting the Giants.
Mr. Fisher may be an awful person. But this nonsense about the A’s not signing more FA’s or paying star players they lost to big market teams is just that. This is MLBTR posters delusions. Right. If just every team would spend more money on payroll then every team will go to the playoffs and WS each year and their fans will be setting attendance records. The reality is this: If the A’s had signed or retained 3-4 major FA’s – as if Oakland is an attractive destination to FA’s – there is a slim to none chance that the franchise would have generated enough after-tax revenue to pay their additional salaries.
–
The facility is in a dangerous area that’s rundown while the city politicians are anti-pro sports demagogues that preside over a financially depressed area as they’ve done nothing for decades to attract businesses into the area that would generate jobs and revenue for the city
So Mr. Fisher is the last pro sports owner left standing in Oakland and MLBTR runs a hit piece on him. A bunch of people that don’t understand the first thing about running a business hop on and kick him. The guy could care less.
When Charlie Finley took the A’s from KC, MLB gave an expansion franchise to Ewing Kauffman – a wealthy, successful businessman. The city built him a new baseball park that was one of the nicest in MLB for years. He hired great baseball people to run it and he Royals were successful……until free agency came, then he too lost his star players and that team was 2nd division for decades.
MLB is the only team sport that does not have total revenue sharing. Until that happens don’t judge all franchises by the same criteria.
MatthewStairs
Lol a hit piece.
Please find a positive article about John Fisher.
He is maligned through the entire industry, not just jilted Oaklanders.
He is universally considered the worst owner in North American sports. Actually in two north american sports.
He’s the Bo Jackson of horrible owners.
Devlsh
In all fairness, Samuel said “Mr. Fisher may be an awful person” and I too said I’m not weighing in on whether Fisher is a good owner or not….
But there’s still evidence that moving the team wasn’t necessarily the wrong choice.
MatthewStairs
I’m not unfamiliar with small market teams unloading players.
Donaldson however wasnt even in arbitration yet if I remember correctly.
While Oakland has been competitive they have refused to sign and keep players. That kind of roster churn doesn’t keep fans coming. I’m not sure you can point to a sub $100m payroll team that draws well.
As to your last question, John Fisher was intent on moving the team long before Vegas came into the picture.
Oakland was never meant to be a small market. MLB extended revenue sharing in the 2012 CBA so that the A’s were allowed to stay on revenue sharing in a large market because of their “stadium situation”.
That’s the only way John Fisher has held onto this team. If he would have built a ballpark in Oakland he would have no longer been able to collect revenue sharing.
As soon as MLB threatened his revenue sharing status he started looking at Vegas.
The A’s were only off revenue sharing for 1 year since Fisher has some the team and that was 2020.
They were phased back in with the deadline of January 2024 for an agreement or they’d lose it, so instead of being in a major market and investing in the franchise they’re now playing in a minor league ballpark for 3-4 years and planning to move to the smallest market in the league.
daddyshark423
How are you responding to an article on MLBTradeRumors.com about John Fisher and the A’s and know so little about John Fisher and the A’s? The high watermark was the early 90s when the team was owned by the Haas family, who invested in the team and in the community. They were top 5 in all of MLB attendance in those days.
They again started to draw well in the early 2000s, despite playing in the non-descript Coliseum, and competing in the same market as the Giants, who had a new stadium and won a pennant in 2002. When John Fisher bought in, they were on a run of about 26k-27k fans a game for 5 straight years. Normal attendance, middle of the pack, and with some improvement to the stadium, the potential to go higher. What did they do? Sell off the fan favorite players immediately, starting the first of several mini-rebuilds. Anybody who thinks that’s a strategy for increasing attendance, you’ll have to explain that to me.
The biggest misconception about attendance is that it’s because of the fans or the markets. Anybody here who is 40 years or older has lived in a time when the Oakland A’s were a top-5 attendance team and the Atlanta Braves were dead last. Now it’s flipped. Did that just happen magically? Did all the baseball fans in Oakland move to Atlanta? Owners get the attendance they pay for.
daddyshark423
Haven’t drawn a million fans since 2019? You’re citing two COVID years, one year in which the ownership completely tore the team apart and traded every fan favorite for pennies (almost none of the guys they got back will ever help them contend for anything) and two additional years after they announced the move. Also, as an added bonus they raised ticket prices the last three years and basically stopped any efforts to improve the fan experience at the stadium. Oh poor John Fisher….he has no choice!
Steinbrenner2728
@MatthewStairs finding a positive article about John Fisher is about as likely as finding a logical comment from Samuel.
enricopallazzo
The Haas family proved you can be successful (and spend money) and had attendance to back that up.
Finley was a cheapskate, not the best example of ownership.
920falcon
What you say makes sense. Truthfully, the Canseco/McGwire/Henderson teams really captured the attention of the baseball world, at the time.
Devlsh
“the A’s project payrolls in the $130 to $150 million range during the ramp-up period before they move into their new park”
Until someone better defines the “ramp-up period”, I don’t think there’s any evidence that it means THIS offseason..
Big Red Machine
If the San Jose Earthquake’s, owned by owner moron, are any indication of a club with more than sufficient resources primed for success, than the Vegas A’s aren’t going to spend a dime.
The Quakes are in one of the most soccer friendly cities in the country, one of the largest cities in the country. And yet, fisher doesn’t spend. Many smaller cities make this team look like a joke. With this dude in charge, the A’s will have the same fate as they have since he bought the team. They gonna suck.
Dan oleson
Pie in the sky thinking, and even if there was a pivot who wants to play in a minor league park for minor league owner? It’ll have to be major overpay just to get one frontline FA…
Domingo111
I doubt it. Maybe the As will spend a little more as they are a year away from Moving to Vegas but spending now doesn’t make much sense for fisher as the As are at least 4-5 years away from playing in Vegas (I think 2029 or even 30 is more realistic than 2028).
Traditionally you will see some payroll uptick coming with a new stadium (often only temporary increase) but when they want to be good in 28/29 it doesn’t make sense to spend now.
I’m not a fan of permanent tanking but I would actually go through another mini rebuild cycle and sell miller and rooker at the 2025 deadline with the goal of building a really good farm system 26/27 and then bringing them up so they are ready for the new stadium.
NavalHistorian
Tanking, Astros/Orioles style, is *much* harder now because of the new MLB Draft Lottery rules. The team with the worst record no longer automatically gets the #1 pick.
To make matters even more difficult, teams like the A’s that get revenue sharing money can’t receive a lottery pick more than two years in a row. At best, the A’s can get a Top 6 pick two years in a row and then the 7th pick the third year.
As always, you have to factor $ into a rebuild, which is still going to hamper the A’s. In 2023, the A’s picked SS Jacob Wilson at #6. Wilson was *not* rated that high by anybody. He was (at best) the 9th or 10th player in that draft. The A’s took him because they knew they could sign him for less than the $6.63 million slot value of the pick, and that’s exactly what happend, They got him for $5.5 million. So, in any rebuild they’re not likely drafting the best player available because Fisher may not be able to sign the kid. They also don’t spend much on international free agent signings. In 2024, their top two international prospects were ranked 43rd and 47th.
Unlike the NFL and NBA, teams can’t trade players for draft picks. Teams can only swap competitive balance picks. That’s not going to change until at least the next CBA (and maybe not even then.) Unless both Miller and Rooker are likely to walk as UFA, I really don’t see the value of trading them and attempting another rebuild, with only Jacob Wilson as your franchise player.
Domingo111
Tanking is not just draft picks though, it is also the prospects you get for trading away mlb assets.
NavalHistorian
This article seemingly mistakenly conflates John Fisher’s net worth with cash he has to spend. An individual’s net worth includes the value of property they own. Net worth does not equal cash.
Fisher’s $3 billion net worth *includes* the value of both the A’s and the San Jose Earthquakes, as well as the approximately 46 million shares of Gap stock he still owns after he sold off $32 million worth of stock in December 2023. The value of the Gap stock he still owns is less than $1 billion.
According to MLB and MLS rules, Fisher can’t use the value of the A’s and Earthquakes to obtain a loan. That’s why Fisher originally announced he planned to fund stadium construction by selling minority shares in the A’s, and why he couldn’t find a bank to partner with until he announced the rest of his family, which isn’t as “cash poor” as he is, is getting involved in this move.
Now that he’s gotten his family involved, I’m less inclined to believe the entire project’s going to collapse while the A’s are in Sacramento, but there’s zero reason to think John Fisher’s going to spend more money on payroll. He’s *still* “cash poor” and that’s unlikely to change much. He walked away from his RSN deal in Oakland, and he’s *not* getting one in Vegas. The Golden Knights can’t even get an RSN deal in Vegas, and they’re actually good.
Stop Giving Billionaires Money
Best article I’ve read on here in awhile. People like Fischer and Manfred are okay with the city of Oakland losing its team and the A’s taking the money Vegas is offering but it’s not good for the game. Now we see cities like Chicago and Minneapolis at risk of losing their teams. Owners using Nashville and Salt Lake as leverage to extract more tax payer dollars. It’s a bad look and turns a lot of fans off from the game of baseball
kwala90274
One misstatement here that has been almost criminally absent as well in most other articles on the topic: Fisher had every intention to stay in Oakland–at least until the end, when he pulled some end-arounds and negotiation posturing.
Anyone unbiased and as close to this team’s moves (from a 56-yr green and gold blooded fan’s perspective) has seen 20 years of attempts to remain in Oakland and/or the Bay…with zero, I mean zero of the type of collaborative firepower support from media, corporations, politicians, and most important and absent local government.
Mayor Libby was a lone wolf, I’ll give her some credit…but she was no Willie Brown. When she became a lame duck, then an ex-Mayor, that was the final nail.
Shameful, corrupt, now ex-Mayor Thao (ousted via recall last week) was a part of a City Council who wanted the A’s gone, then practically ran on that premise (I challenge you to search her 50,000 word campaign website for even a footnote that mentioned the words “Keep the A’s” as part of her platform).
I am NO Fisher fan, at all. For not necessarily the same reasons he’s been wrongfully accused of here. But when the dust settles and the postscript is written here (Moneyball II?) I really hope Thao and the city of Oakland finally get the blame they deserve.
A's lover
A close friend of mine represented the city of Oakland and the County of Alameda in the legal and financial dealings with the team regarding the Howard terminal site. She is a very reasonable person, and gave a detailed account of how all of these negotiations were just gameplay by Fisher and Company. They were very close to a good deal, with the city and county and state offering big money, but Fisher just did a dog and pony show to get more money out of Nevada. Inside information.
Pads Fans
Fisher backed out of 3 deals in the Bay Area that were closer to fruition than the ballpark in Las Vegas is today. Each time it was Fisher that backed out. In the last 2 the city and state had committed significant taxpayer dollars to the site, $600 million in the Howard Terminal deal. If Fisher didn’t back out at the last moment shovels would have been in the ground by summer 2023 and a stadium ready by opening day 2026 at the latest.
Kwala is a name Dave Kaval has used on other boards and he sold his home in Menlo Park and bought a home in Rancho Palos Verdes in May of this year. 90274 is the zip code for Rancho Palos Verdes.
chemfinancing
Who are they gonna sign, Christian Walker?
enricopallazzo
John Fisher and “good business decision” don’t go hand in hand.
Also Mick Akers is a joke as a journalist.
Still think it’s about a 20% chance they end up staying in northern CA including back to the bay area when this charade falls apart.
JoeBrady
Fisher is making money hand over fist. And the A’s are one of the best-run teams in baseball.
enricopallazzo
Do you have a newsletter or blog? I’d be interested in subscribing to your other thoughts.
JoeBrady
I’m waiting for retirement, and then I have to buy the Blogging for Idiots book. It’s a process.
Pads Fans
That is sarcasm, right Joe?
The Saber-toothed Superfife
Yes. Clearly a case of, the rest of the league exists because the Yankees, Mets and Dodgers need someone to play…..
loandinside
“…cold-blooded lizard person with no warm feelings” That’s the best description of John Fisher that I have ever read. Bravo
PiratesFan1981
I know this isn’t about the A’s, but another club is going down the same road as the A’s did in Oakland. That is the Pittsburgh Pirates owner Bob Nutting. Mr Nutting has low balled the fans for 2 decades while having less than a handful of successful seasons. The guy has driven away the fan base and it’s a matter of time before the Pirates end up in another city. Pittsburgh can support a baseball team, but need an owner who can give the city what they need. Winning! With this similarity between Oakland A’s ownership and the Pittsburgh Pirates ownership, you have to believe they pass notes to each other on how to legally move a team. Just saying
A's lover
That is an excellent article Darragh, thank you!
pjmcnu
Oh yeah, this had all the hallmarks of a Major League situation. The only thing missing was the picture of Fisher in tassels in the locker room (and the A’s winning a damn thing – I guess he was better at it than Rachel Phelps).