Major League Baseball issued a statement on a landmark decision today. Commissioner Rob Manfred had decided that players on the permanently ineligible list will lose that status once they die. This means that players like Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are now off the permanently ineligible list, as well as 15 others.
“Commissioner Robert D. Manfred Jr. today issued a policy decision regarding the status of individuals who have passed away while on the permanently ineligible list,” the league’s press release says. “This issue has never been formally addressed by Major League Baseball, but an application filed by the family of Pete Rose has made it incumbent upon the Office of the Commissioner to reach a policy decision on this unprecedented issue in the modern era as Mr. Rose is the first person banned after the tenure of Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis to die while still on the ineligible list. Commissioner Manfred has concluded that MLB’s policy shall be that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual.
In a letter to Jeffrey M. Lenkov, the attorney for Mr. Rose, Commissioner Manfred wrote, ’In my view, a determination must be made regarding how the phrase ‘permanently ineligible’ should be interpreted in light of the purposes and policies behind Rule 21, which are to: (1) protect the game from individuals who pose a risk to the integrity of the sport by prohibiting the participation of such individuals; and (2) create a deterrent effect that reduces the likelihood of future violations by others. In my view, once an individual has passed away, the purposes of Rule 21 have been served. Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game. Moreover, it is hard to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve. Therefore, I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual, and Mr. Rose will be removed from the permanently ineligible list.’
Commissioner Manfred further wrote, ’While it is my preference not to disturb decisions made by prior Commissioners, Mr. Rose was not placed on the permanently ineligible list by Commissioner action but rather as the result of a 1989 settlement of potential litigation with the Commissioner’s Office. My decision today is consistent with Commissioner Giamatti’s expectations of that agreement.
’Commissioner Giamatti’s comments were completely reasonable given that, at the time, the Hall of Fame did not have a rule barring people on the permanently ineligible list from Hall of Fame consideration. In fact, Shoeless Joe Jackson was afforded the opportunity to be voted upon in 1936 and again in 1946.’
To establish clarity for the administration of the Major League Rules, the decision in this matter shall apply to individuals in the past or future who are posthumously on the permanently ineligible list. There are 17 deceased individuals disciplined since the founding of the Commissioner’s Office impacted by today’s announcement, including Eddie Cicotte, Happy Felsch, Chick Gandil, Joe Jackson, Fred McMullin, Swede Risberg, Buck Weaver and Lefty Williams; Joe Gedeon; Gene Paulette; Benny Kauff; Lee Magee; Phil Douglas; Cozy Dolan; Jimmy O’Connell; William Cox; and Pete Rose.”
Most baseball fans are well aware of the complexities of the Rose situation. He was one of the best players of all-time strictly in terms of on-field ability. He is the MLB all-time leader in hits with 4,256. He would have been a slam-dunk Hall-of-Famer but blocked his own path with his off-field behavior.
Rose was a player-manager with the Reds in 1984 and he continued serving as the skipper into the 1989 season, even though he stopped playing after 1986. During the 1989 campaign, an MLB investigation determined that Rose had bet on baseball, including bets on the Reds while he was managing. He only bet on the Reds to win and there’s no suggestion that he tried to fix games, but that was still a violation of MLB’s biggest rule.
Any player or coach who bets on a game involving his own team receives a lifetime ban, which Rose did indeed receive. In 1991, the Hall of Fame passed a rule that anyone with a lifetime ban would not be eligible to be inducted.
Rose passed away in September of 2024. Prior to that, he had long pushed for his reinstatement without success but has now been removed from the list posthumously. It was reported in the offseason that the league was considering a petition on Rose’s behalf from various people, including Rose’s daughter Fawn.
Now that he has been removed from the ineligible list, Rose can be considered for the Hall of Fame. Bob Nightengale of USA Today relays a statement from the Hall stating that the individuals involved in today’s ruling will be under consideration as part of the 2027 deliberations. The Era Committee process works in a three-year rotating cycle. In one year, they consider players from the Classic Baseball Era, which includes those whose major contributions were prior to 1980. Then there’s the Contemporary Baseball Era, which is for players whose contributions were mostly after 1980, and then a year for managers/executives/umpires from the same era.
2024 was a “Classic Baseball Era” year, with the Hall selecting Dick Allen and Dave Parker for induction. 2025 will see the Contemporary Era get consideration, with the managers/executives/umpires getting their turn in 2026, followed by a return to the Classic Baseball Era in 2027.
That doesn’t mean Rose is a lock to get in at that time. Hall of Fame voters are instructed to consider a player’s integrity and character alongside his contributions on the field. In addition to Rose’s gambling, he has also been accused of having sexual relationships with underage girls during his playing days. Those developments emerged about a decade ago and ended Rose’s broadcasting career. ESPN provided details on the legalities of those issues in 2017 and on Rose’s comments the situation in 2022.
Apart from Rose, Jackson is the most notable name here. Most baseball fans are familiar with the “Black Sox” scandal, where Jackson and several other members of the White Sox were accused of intentionally losing the 1919 World Series in exchange for payment from a gambling syndicate. Commissioner Landis eventually gave lifetime bans to Jackson, Cicotte, Felsh, Gandil, McMullin, Risberg, Weaver and Williams.
The decision has been a part of baseball lore for more than a century now, becoming the subject of several books as well as the films Eight Men Out and Field of Dreams. Jackson was one of the top players in baseball at his peak but wasn’t able to play beyond his age-30 season due to the ban. His defenders point out that his performance during the World Series doesn’t align with someone trying to lose, as he hit .375/.394/.563 over the eight games in the best-of-nine series.
As referenced in today’s statement, Jackson wasn’t formally excluded from voting but he got just two votes in both 1936 and 1946, when the memory of the scandal was still somewhat fresh. It’s possible that the passage of time has led to a change in attitude from the baseball world, but his candidacy will surely be hotly debated in the years to come.
Many of the other players are mere footnotes in this decision. A handful of them were banned for gambling infractions before they had the chance to rack up the accolades necessary for Hall of Fame consideration. Back in March, the Hall of Fame announced adjustments to the Era Committee voting process. In order to be elected, a candidate must receive 12 of 16 votes. Any candidate receiving fewer than five votes will not be eligible for the next cycle three years later. If a candidate gets four or fewer votes on two separate occasions, they will be considered permanently ineligible for future consideration.
Photo courtesy of Sam Greene, Imagn Images.
Good
Good is right…
This may have been the most apolitical way to have made the ‘change’ in policy…
CNN MSNBC reported that the reinstatement came after Trump pressure Manfred because Rose supported Trump in interviews
Definition of “permanent”:
lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.
There’s much more to it and nothing to do with Rose’s ‘support…”
…….he lives rent free in their heads.
Like I’ve always said =
Place Pete’s statue on OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD (OUTSIDE OF THE HALL).
TAKE BETS ON HOW
MANY MORONS GET RUN OVER!
Saber – That’s what you’ve always said? It’s neither funny nor effective. Think of something else.
I hope Pete knew that one day he would get in. What he did with his gambling was unacceptable. However, 4256 hits had nothing to do with those mistakes.
Who says he gets in? That’s for the Era Committees to decide, and they won’t even let in the Home Run King.
I hate people like you.
“Why are you mad? I “only” stabbed you. No big deal.”
The same people saying good also love having a convicted felon as president.
The Hall of Fame isn’t about morals; if it was, maybe Rose shouldn’t be in, but it’s about the best baseball players, and he was one of the very best ever.
“Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
Note: Integrity, Sportsmanship, Character
Take a peek at all the media mea culpas on Joey and re-access on where the real danger lies.
Vegas the charges against Pete weren’t fabricated to ruin him.
TDS is a thing and many gullible swallowed the BS…gotta forgive them I guess. It goes deep. As for Rose….whether or not they put him in the hall won’t matter to him anymore. He was an amazing player and I know he was a big reason my Phillies got over the hump and finally won a World Series in 80. He’s in my HOF….
A little too late don’t you think?
No….not too late.
Not at all.
If Pete Rose is elected posthumously, how many HOFers will skip the ceremonies? Hooefully, he never gets in as he only wanted inclusion for the monetary benefits. His accomplishments are already part of the HOF but he himself should not get a bust to be next to others like Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench.
It’s a museum, not a cathedral.
My line is “Did they hurt the integrity of the game”?
I’m not asking them to be saints.
Gaylord Perry wrote a book on ball doctoring.
@Halofan
Yes he did.
If the people directly involved in the outcome of any game, either a player, manager, coach, umpire, bet on a game they challenge the integrity and legitimacy of the sport. If the sport is not legitimate why would it exist?
“If you can’t trust a fix, what *can* you trust?” — Giovanni “Johnny Casper” Gasparo (“Miller’s Crossing”)
youtube.com/watch?v=sXQ940YSD2A
If (allegedly) throwing a World Series or betting on games you participate in is not hurting the integrity of the game in your book, tear up your book.
An all-time great, Gaylord was fun. That’s why he’s in.
All of a sudden my good friend who played on the Salt Lake Trappers as a never used backup when they won 29 in a row and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame for that accomplishment cannot brag about being in the Hall of Fame while Pete Rose is not.
Lifetime stats for Salt Lake: 0 for 3 3k
In the Baseball Hall of Fame.
What did I say to contradict that? Just curious.
The Hall of Fame section of the museum is a cathedra. That is such a small section of the museum.
I have no idea why people think they are the same thing.
“Its a matter of ethics.”
I agree, except for using the word “allegedly”? The Black Sox are known to have done it.
“I’m not asking them to be saints” part?
I adamantly opposed Rose in the HOF while he was alive. However, he has served his “lifetime ban” and now belongs along side the other greats of the game.
It wasn’t a lifetime ban, was it? Didn’t he himself agree to a permanent ban?
Rose – May his memory live in infamy.
look at the big morals on this guy
Why because he bet a little money? Same people who don’t want Pete want Steroid Bonds in the hall what a joke.
Some people who don’t want the steroid Bond in the Hall want Pete in. What a joke.
There is no excuse for Bonds ands Clemens not to be in the hall.
@Mets We’re still having to explain this in 2025? You can’t put steroid users in because it’s disingenuous to the clean numbers. You have no idea how many home runs Albert Pujols or Aaron Judge or even Hank Aaron would hit in their careers if they used. To say putting filthy numbers next to clean numbers is unfair is an understatement. I propose a hall of cheaters for those of you who like crying about Rocket and Bonds not being in. You wanna argue that steroids saved baseball fine no debate. Unfortunately your nostalgia of the good ol days is not reason enough to let them in.
Barry Bonds and Clemens were clearly better than anyone else on the field and were so before PED use. They were not illegal when they played and should not be punished for it.
Too bad they didn’t see that and felt the need to cheat themselves and everyone else in the record books. Selfish, insecure decisions that force others to make disastrous medical decisions to keep up with lab rats is a stain on the game.
Imagine doing something that you know will lead to a lifetime ban, then imagine doing something your counterparts are doing that is not currently banned by your sport? See the difference???
they took steroids
Maybe not technically by MLB, but it WAS illegal by both U.S. and Canadian federal law when they used PEDs. MLB even released a statement to that effect in 1991.
How good they were before they used PEDs is irrelevant. By doing so for even part of their careers, they tainted their entire careers, especially their career statistics.
Steroids and HGH were illegal by criminal law at the time, so no, I don’t see the difference
We don’t even know exactly what they used for you to say it was illegal in the US and Canada. The stuff Mark McGwire used was not illegal. None of the players were charged in either country. David Ortiz popped on the initial PED test and he is in the hall.
Mets Era – Andro was illegal in Canada. McGwire did need to travel to Montreal to play the Expos. Was he taking it on Canadian soil? Did he carry it in his luggage to Canada?
As for Ortiz, he is the prime example of why the BBWAA should no longer be eligible to vote. They were complicit in the initial cover up (McGwire-Andro the prime example).
Andro was not illegal, but McGwire has admitted to also using actual steroids.
It doesn’t matter if they were actually charged. The Black Sox were technically found innocent of criminal charges, but that was only due to their prior confessions disappearing by the time they were tried. There’s enough historical evidence to leave no doubt as to what occurred, as also with Rose and most of the PED guys.
Ortiz’s case is complicated. You can go either way with him.
Lanidrac you do not read. Slower this time:
Andro was illegal in CANADA. That was the supplement found in his locker in 1998. McGwire played some games in Montreal which is part of Canada. Is it a moot point now? Yes, as McGwire admitted to using steroids.
Sorry I respectfully disagree with you. He is clearly one of the GOATS of all time in baseball and he deserves to be in on accomplishments no matter what he did off the field. Plus he never threw games or bet on his team to lose. There are many murderers who have served less time than Rose did while he was alive.
dewey: I don’t believe Morgan and Bench have busts.
Ok now, so Ty Cobb was a great human? what about Gaylord Perry doctoring baseballs. How many others are in that didn’t have integrity or character flaws. Ivan Rodriguez, David Ortiz, Jeff Bagwell. We can debate all day. It’s a Hall of fame. Rose all time hits leader. Cast the first stone from he or she that is without fault. Let the man rest in peace and let his family have their father in the hall. If people don’t show up that are butt hurt, oh well.
mwrhermo: It’s not up to anyone on here, so comparisons are pointless.
Ty Cobb wasn’t that bad. His reputation has been unfairly smeared over the years.
In any case, I agree that the character clause has been applied very inconsistently, but as long as it continues to be used against modern candidates, it should be applied consistently.
However, even without the character clause, Rose’s and the Black Sox’s infractions go beyond bad character and shouldn’t have been made eligible for consideration in the first place. The only argument Rose has is that at least he wasn’t trying to influence any games when he only bet for his team to win.
mwrhermo the gambling issue pertains to players potentially betting on themselves to lose. Jackson and company threw a World Series. Did Pete make decisions to influence a game his team played in-order to cover a spread? Steroid users did it to get paid and win. Gamblers do it to get paid and potentially try to lose.
Pete Rose allegedly committed statutory rap-e. That allegation needs a thorough vetting as part of any HOF consideration.
By that mark, then anyone that committed a crime while in MLB should be banned?
Yes
His reply to questions about said allegations, “that was 55 years ago, babe”. Rose is a pos. I’m ok with Shoeless Joe
Now you are equating character of a person (from a different era) with skill on the playing field. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Allegedly. Of course, he’s not here to defend himself, so the investigation would be incomplete.
because accused is just that, accused.
He’s only “accused” because he agreed to a permanent ban. Had he declined, the matter would have been investigated and, given his lame subsequent denial (“I thought she was 16”), it likely wouldn’t be accused but rather confirmed. Rose got a huge benefit from agreeing to a permanent ban:stopping further investigation of his misconduct (including allegations that he did bet against the Reds). Now he gets that benefit but doesn’t suffer the consequences of it.
Pete’s dead. He’s getting no benefit.
Nope, right on time.
You mispled “soon”.
and you misspelled mispelled
Oh, did I? How unfortunate.
It doesn’t make sense to ban someone when they are alive and then say they are eligible for the highest honor after they are dead. If you are found to be bad enough to be banned for life, why would you want to honor that person ever? If you want to honor someone, why wait until they are dead?
They just figured this out?
It is Manfred and Sons…. Can’t expect too much.
Now I will hear the Sanford and Son theme every time his name is mentioned. Thanks.
Sounds about right.
HOF next class for them all. Apologies needed to all families. Saying that the only way to escape ineligibility is through death is quite wild to me
Not to me. Being “enshrined” into the Hall of Fame is the greatest honor baseball can bestow on a player.
They have disqualified themselves from being able to participate in that honor.
what about shoeless Joe? no evidence he did anything wrong so should he still not get in?
Shoeless Joe knew about the fix and didn’t rat on his teammates.
I’m pretty sure this entire country’s legal system is choosing to ignore or allow evidence based on how the jurisdiction feels about the suspect’s demographics.
So? If he ratted, the Chicago mob probably would have killed him and his family.
By that logic, Jose altuve should be banned from baseball right?
Altuve knew about the trashcan and didn’t rat on his teammates.
By your logic…who cares if a world series is thrown?!
Altuve didn’t know he just shy
💯
Read his grand jury testimony. He knew exactly what he did.
And if any of them are inducted now, they technically still aren’t participating in that honor.
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, but in this case the punishment for someone like Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe is that they aren’t alive to witness themselves being elected or inducted.
Do their stats justify them being there? If yes, then enter. Baseball is not about being a nice person, it is about putting up numbers. No one did it better than Pete. This holier than though nonsense is rubbish. HoFers have been cheating since day 1.
Why are apologies needed?
“Are apologies needed”…Because many people celebrate cheating and dysfunction and think you should “apologize” for calling it out in the first place.
I have no issues with people wanting Rose in the HOF. Pete knew the rules and knew the consequences.. why is an apology necessary for his misdeeds?
Apologize to the families of people who broke the rules?
The commissioner not does MLB have a day in who gets in the HOF. This is entirely up to the voting members.
True, but he has a say in the rules for admission, which might as well be a vote.
He does not. The HOF made their own rule to exclude anyone that was banned.
Counter arguement – it was called a “lifetime ban” and his “lifetime” has come to an end. Therefore, so should the ban. Pete Rose unequivocably belongs in Cooperstown if the HOF is to be the truest measure of statistically greatness.
That’s a valid point. It has been always called a “lifetime ban”. His lifetime is over, so therefore, the sentence is technically served.
Just because he is on the ballot doesn’t mean he has to be voted for (i.e. Bonds, Clemons).
It is only called a “lifetime” ban by people who decided it was a lifetime ban. It was a permanently ineligible ban, but apparently Rob Manfred knows best.
“the only way to escape ineligibility is through death is quite wild to me”
It sounds like you don’t understand the term lifetime ban… Only person to screw Pete Rose was Pete Rose. Sorta fitting he’s not around to see his hof induction… Karma works that way I guess
So they changed the rule to accommodate a dead pedophile?
Rather, me thinks, to satisfy The Dictator. But this ruling, while coming way too late, will allow Rose into The Hall (where he belongs) and gives hope that Clemens, Bonds and others will someday get their due.
Bonds and Clemens are both eligible for the HOF.
“Bonds and Clemens”…And so let’s keep an eye on their health and put both Bonds/Clemens in the steroids wing of the MLB HOF posthumously.
Judge Landis and Ty Cobb were known racists. How many more, in addition to drunks, wife beaters, wife cheaters, drug abusers and downright mean people in the Hall with them? I’m sure there are other guys who took advantage of underage girls in that bunch too, especially earlier in the 20th century when it was more common to marry young girls.
My point is, there are not a lot of choir boys in there.
Liars and cheaters belong in the hall of shame.
That’s more to my point. Is it a museum or a cathedral? If it’s a museum, then all aspects both positive and negative need to be included to tell the story. It’s about what happened on the field, not off of it.
If it’s a cathedral, then keep them out as only the worthy belong and integrity is paramount. There are solid points to both ends.
A Lof people were racist back then. MLB was racist.
As far as Al Stump’s fake account of “The last Days of Ty Cobb”, the only people who put any weight in that story are ignorant.
Halo11Fan – Agree. People need to look at the context of the time and not view things in retrospect. It’s no different than comparing eras of the game. It’s not Babe Ruth’s fault he didn’t play with Aaron Judge. You have to hold people in the context of their time, be it on or off the field.
Smoking is no longer permitted in an MLB facility. Do we look negtively on guys in the past that did? I mean, where does it end.
“A lot of people were racist back then”…Back then? How about even more “racists” today than ever before?
So many “racists” that some people use identity politics that literally campaigns, labels others and politics on the color of everyone’s skin.
It’s not that there is more, it’s just more visible given the way news is worldly now. That and the increase in population allowing for more.
It very well still exists, but not to the violent nature that it once did, but that is a topic for another forum and as far as I care to venture off the article topic.
Agreed Halofan. It’s like how so many are thinking Shoeless Joe is innocent because of 8 Men Out. That book has been just as discredited as Al Stump’s hit job on Cobb.
I agree completely. I highly recommend Gene Carney’s “Burying the Black Sox” which approached the team and its players in a much more evenhanded way than “Eight Men Out”.
I haven’t read that one but I will. Scandal on the South Side was also very good.
I understand your point, but I take every opportunity to correct people about Ty Cobb. He was not a racist, not in his time or now. He was an aggressive player with temper issues, but not racist.
Clintc…could not agree more. Just finished reading the book by Charles Leerhsen.
The man points out a lot about Cobb that was genuinely good.
The sharpening of spikes was a fabrication.
Solid take brother.
There is no reason why they can’t have a steroid wing of the HOF. It’s a part of baseball history whether people like it or not. Sosa, McGwire, Palmero, Bonds, and Clemons should all be in.
@Woods Rider. Absolutely fantastic talking points on this topic. I agree with your sentiments. HOF is an indoctrination of accolades and accomplishment. Even the worst should be enshrined as to keep record of what era, personality, values, character, background, etc. as it brings clarity to the people who would like to learn these players. Im with you , where does it end?
MLB players have been, still are and will continue to use steroids.
You even know what a Dictator actually is? Doubtful.
Rose and the 1919 White Sox commited the number one crime in the eyes of baseball. Gambling. They knew it going in, and did it anyway. You don’t glorify people in the shrine, for doing the one quickest thing that could destroy the game.
Agreed. But now they have completed their lifetime ban.
the only person from the 1919 white Sox who is worthy is shoeless Joe and did he actually do anything wrong?
Eddie Cicotte would likely be in the HOF if not for the ban.
Ha ha. I do. A ruler who has total power. A person who behaves in an autocratic way.
Sound familiar ?
Just a hint. It’s why you aren’t viewed as the leader of the free world anymore.
Blacksox, not Whitesox.
Chasing Time was viewed as the ruler of the free world but no longer is?
Funny that a non-American is trashing America.
You do know MLB and every other major sports league is in bed with online gambling sites now? Yiu always hear about the betting odds or betting line on pregame shows now. So is it destroying the game now or are you just being hypocritical?
Dude. It’s the most common thing in the world right now.
The leagues don’t care what any of us think….they LOVE the new revenue stream that is gambling.
What dictator?
The latest one. The reason the free world is ridiculing America and Americans ad nauseam. Seriously, you haven’t noticed ?
@ foppert I’ve noticed all the billions of dollars other countries are flocking to invest here. Other countries do that for dictators?
Ha ha Have you. I’d have to look at the specifics of all this “flocking”.
The greatest geopolitical shift since WW2 has occurred and countries aren’t going back to you as the leader of democracy.
It’s over. Is there a world leader of a democratic country who hasn’t stated that ? I don’t think there is. Sure, there will be civility and some business as usual, but politically, you have been abandoned. You are on your own. Chain saw wielding Argentinians excluded.
@ foppert Yes, I have seen countries pledge billions in investing here in this country. Maybe get off Fackbook and actually pay attention. The rest of what you said is lunacy. Not even sure if that is actually English.
I’m not on Facebook !
Ok. Ignore the reality of your new situation if you wish. Our countries have been besties for a long time. 80years you have been saying “jump” and we have immediately been responding with “how high”. No problem. We get the “Americas b@tch” insult as a result, but that’s fine. We owed you and we respected your ideals.
That’s over. You ended it. Outside of some first class humorous content, there is no joy in it for us. Your dictator has put us in a very difficult position. We wish it was like before, but it’s not, so we move on. No animosity, no hatred, just the reality.
Just curious who is we, England? Canada? England already renegotiated and Canada should thank Trump for Trudeau leaving his terrible administration. Any country that doesn’t want the US to have a leader who isn’t selling out the US for your country can break ties with the US and stop asking for aid and defense from the US. Best wishes.
Australia. They will all negotiate. They have to swallow hard and do that for the good of their people. It doesn’t change the fact you have lost world leadership and it isn’t coming back.
The world is thanking Canadians for electing Carney. Smart folks them Canadians. What a great choice. At the pointy end of the sh&t storm and showing the new world how to conduct themselves.
Outstanding and very comforting for the rest of us.
Thankyou Canada ! Respect.
How you US citizens aren’t comparing that with yours and going “holy fark, what have we done” is amazing.
We are good with putting some distance between us.
Has to be done. It will hurt but we will get through it.
I get it, you are too far from reality of what is happening in the US. The US is starting to care about US citizens first and stopping the foreign corruption that made past “leaders” rich. Any country that doesn’t respect that was probably just living off US taxpayers funds and part of the grift.
Ha ha. Ok.
.WTF? What new reality? Ignore what exactly? I’ve been very clear I don’t like politicians in this very thread. You’re making way too many assumptions.
Until this ruling, every MLB player knew that if you get caught betting on baseball you will be banned from the game and you will NEVER be in the HOF. Given what’s at stakes in an MLB game, including the amount of money bet, that was a good rule. It’s not the rule any more.
“A dead pedophile”..Since when are “dead” people allowed here on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM And yet here you are.
In Ohio, the Age of consent is 16. That may make him a bad guy, but a pedophile is a perversion of the facts.
When you have to exaggerate the truth, maybe your point isn’t worth making.
I mean if you wanna believe the guy who claimed for years that he didn’t bet on baseball is telling the truth about waiting til she was 16, more power to you.
also even if she was past the age of consent he was in his 30s, so I think the point is very well worth making.
When someone is looking for a payday, I just don’t take a he said, she said seriously.
Too many reasons for both sides to lie.
The word Pedophile in common usage means interested in young people under the age of consent, even if the official psychiatric definition is restricted to prepubescent kids. So it’s not necessarily being misused here, unlike how Rose allegedly treated the girl.
Just because “common usage” is used incorrectly a lot doesn’t make it right. If a black cat walks by your house every day and you say it is white every time you see it, it doesn’t become a white cat after a while.
Pete Rose was in his 30’s when he had a 14 year old peddled to him in spring training by one of his assistants. Go ahead and defend that you creep.
I am not defending anything. In fact, I specifically did the opposite. Just because I was saying he is not a pedophile by definition, does not mean I was defending him or saying he was a good guy. And BTW, name calling really makes you look juvenile.
Halo defending pedophiles-Jared from Subway is that you?
They changed the rule to accommodate fans which really is what it’s all about.
This decision by Manfred is a bit of a gamble…
….Pete Rose took the under.
It’s funny when people throw around words like pedophile when they don’t even know what they mean. A pedophile is an individual that has sexual relations with a PREPUBESCENT child. You are not a pedophile if you sleep with a 16 year old. You are creepy and definitely not invited to my home, but you are not a pedophile.
Not a pedophile to sleep with 16?? Sure, if you are 16. Or 17. Or maybe 18. But if you are almost 30 and married with kids, yes 16 (actually rumored to be 14-15 when they started relationship) is a pedophile piece of trash. And to offer a bag of signed baseballs to settle the matter while saying “forget about what happened 30 years ago” is absolutely disgusting. Google the ESPN article
Aug 7 2022 ESPN article “It was 55 rears ago, babe” is the article to google
And once again, you have no clue what that word actually means.
Dude, if you want to argue that a 30 year old married man isn’t a pedophile for a years long relationship with a 15 year old GIRL, you need to join the ACLU or something. Perhaps by legal minutiae he might miss being officially a verified by law pedophile, but he is a pedophile in the socially accepted definition of a piece of trash that sleeps with children. The fact that you want to argue the technicality says a lot about your character. Or lack of.
The actual definition of the word is not legal minutiae. And honestly, I really don’t don’t care what you think of my character because your judgment is obviously tainted and frankly I don’t have any respect for it at all. And don’t call me dude. I am not your drinking buddy.
Well since my daughter has yet to be conceived, it would have to be at least 13-14 years at a minimum before she passes puberty. So soon is not really an option. But thank you for the well wishes. You are doing a great job of showing your own character in this discussion. But luckily you are not as memorable as me, so I will likely forget about you completely very soon while I will live rent free in your head for a while Have a nice day sir.
Wishing ill on someone’s daughter is always a losing position.
Who wished ill? I said I hope his daughter meets someone just like someone he clearly admires. I’m wishing him well.
Yeah, right.
Are the Pedo Rose stans out tonight after a convention? Or is it like just 2 guys with multiple screen names?
Is Bill Belichick a pedophile?
Hebephilia or possibly Ephebophilia
Michael Jackson?
Great. Pete and Shoeless both need to be inducted into the Hall.
Shoeless Joe from Hanibal, MO …will not be getting inducted
Too soon.
It’s hard to be overly joyous on this news. As Rose said, MLB would lift his ban once he passed away
I think it’s the right thing to do. Just too late.
To be fair, he’s the only one that put himself in the situation.
Yes, I understand your point. If he never got in, I’d get that too.
It does seem a little sketchy for this to be happening so soon after the man’s death. To me, the optics of the situation is that the HOF wants to profit off his name without him around to share any of the glory.
Other than the Rose family, is anyone who wasn’t going to visit the HOF going to flock there if Pete gets in? I don’t see the profit influx for the HOF if he gets in.
It’s because Manfred has a bunch of signed Pete Rose cards and wants them to be worth something…. Sly little devil.
Rose’s body to Boston to play 1B???
Better range than Devers…
Pete Cadaver over Rafael Devers?
Pete Rose From the Dead…..
Begs the question: For Rose’s induction ceremony, are they going to go full Weekend At Bernie’s?
Or a pile of torn up betting slips.
At least Rose’s body won’t refuse to play 1B
Very true. It’s a true utility corpse.
It would have to be veterans committee the next time that era is considered, which I think is two years.
I don’t think so as he was never eligible. I think he goes on the next ballot for the next ten years assuming he gets 5% or more each time. I’d love it if on his first year, he was then removed.
Correction: I heard it will be the veterans’ committee in 28.
If you’re going to make them eligible for the Hall, why not do it while they’re alive? Obviously too late for Shoeless Joe, but they could have made a better decision while Pete Rose was still alive. Sheesh.
Isn’t the whole point of “permanently ineligible” that they aren’t able to enjoy any such accolades while they’re alive?
Permanent is permanent. Why would it end at death? If you’re not making it truly permanent, at least let the player die knowing he made it in.
Isn’t the whole point of “permanently ineligible” that they aren’t able to enjoy any such accolades while they’re alive?
Permanent is supposed to mean forever…
It is forever from the point of view of the relevant players.
Permanently ineligible to participate in MLB. Hall of Fame is it’s own entity and a completely separate issue. Commissioner has no say over anything at the Hall.
Except ruling who is eligible and who isn’t. That’s quite a say.
The article literally says that being termed permanently ineligible is only in relation to the league and that the Hall has already had the option to vote on Shoeless Joe twice.
the Hall of Fame did not have a rule barring people on the permanently ineligible list from Hall of Fame consideration. In fact, Shoeless Joe Jackson was afforded the opportunity to be voted upon in 1936 and again in 1946.’
The Hall currently bans anyone on the permanently ineligible list. That’s why Manfred is making this decision.
Ignoring the reasoning here, I think this is a fair move.
Shoeless Joe for the Hall.
👆 is the correct framing.
This sounds dark.
So MLB is saying that DEATH is enough to satisfy the punishment of being banned from the league? Talk about a God complex…
It’s a microcosm of world philosophy in application today… compromise.
Lol, yep.
The Ultimate Compromise
The timing was excellent. Pete Rose just did his patented hard slide, to break up a double play in heaven.
If there is a heaven, Pete Rose is sure as hell not there.
“Sure as hell”…And you know this because?
Shoeless Joe can finally come in from the cornfield.
Cool.
In life, Pete Rose was a bad guy. As a manager, Pete Rose did some things that hurt his team and the integrity of his sport,
Joe Jackson was a good guy, as a player, he did things that hurt the game and the integrity of his sport.
IMO, they have been punished enough.
His former teams can do hold ceremonies with Rose using an AI holograph, welcoming him back to the organization’s good graces.
I doubt Rose and Joe Jackson get in though.
Imagine how many annoying comments could have been prevented if it had been called a lifetime ban.
Who’s lifetime? The players or the hall of fames?
Instead it’s a permanently ineligible list, which by definition means it matters not whether someone’s dead or alive. They are permanently ineligible.
Rob Manfred is ignoring this.
Pete is definitley looking up at us with a smile from the afterlife at this!
Hope he’s enjoying the “warm” weather there too!
I see what you did there!
How fitting, they wait until Rose dies so he can’t enjoy it. They never wanted him to see it while alive. Well done MLB. This is a shame Rob Manfred.
That’s the entire point.
Yes everyone knows the point they made, so excellent observation there. The point made is that they waited too long. MLB has been more lenient with steroid users. As a manager he did something awful. As a player he deserved to see his day in cooperstown. MLB robbed everyone of a celebration of MLB’s all time hits leader, a record no one will ever touch.
“How fitting..they wait”…You cam here to MLBTRADERUMORS.COM just to declare publicly that missed the entire point of Rose’s suspension in the first place?
Did you forget why Rose had a lifetime ban in the first place?? Granted he told lies and denied it but ultimately came clean and admitted everything his ban was totally justified
Excellent response lol. Rose as a manager absolutely should have been banned. But as a player and owning a record that NO ONE will ever even come close to he deserved to have his day. He will never get that, MLB has been harder on him than steroid users.
Well..technically ichiro has more hits if you combine mlb and npb stats..so someone thinks they broke his record just sayin and to my knowledge Ichiro never gambled on baseball either..how about that.
How about this. Japanese stats do not carry over.
MLB players who get cut go to NPB. Should all of Pete’s lifetime hits including little league count too?
none of them should..he broke the one rule in baseball you dont break..then lied about it..then admitted it when he thought there was money in it for him..his stats might as well not be there ..zero respect for him
Petes dont carry anywhere he cheated the game..hes out
In 1984 and 1985, Pete Rose bet on games as a player as well.
They are trying to punish that POS Rose.
I assume this means those guys can now be included in video games like The Show?
No, they would still need to acquire their name & likeness rights from their estate.
Can’t wait to put a bet on ESPN Bet or FanDuel on if Pete or Joe will get in!
Comment of the day!
That is very funny.
The White Sox player’s heavily favored but history says the Reds guy takes it in 8.
Terrible decision. I would not be surprised if this has an orange tinge to it. Would make sense though.
What’s it like to have one man you’ve never met controlling every aspect of your life?
He is literally trying to control every aspect of everyone’s lives no matter what the constitution says. Only. Chance any one of us has is if we buy some meme coins of his.
You say literally, so you should be able to name the aspects and what he is literally doing to control them. I have not had any aspects of my life changed, and I’m assuming I’m part of “everyone,” I guess what I’m saying is you’re completely full of ish.
Also this is a baseball website
Maybe humpty trumpty will give Pete’s acceptance speech.
I’m sure it will be the best speech ever…at least as he tells it.
I guess they will have to make a Field of Dreams 2 once Shoeless Joe is elected.
To view the Pete Rose exhibit you have to give an additional $20, cash only, and point out a woman of loose morals.
Canonization
Manfred’s a weak dude not a surprise he gives into the tub of lard sitting in the white house.
Does it piss you off that people like you are becoming few and far between?
Trump’s approval rating is at an all-time low…
@80raw – And yet the utter mystery is that it is above zero at any point in time.
So, not permanent.
This smells of Big Mac farts and orange facial hydrating concealer.
That’s fine. He served his punishment now enshrine him so his in game accomplishments can be immortalized
They are in the museum.
Their busts aren’t and they should be
Manfred is a such a corrupt person makes sense he would cave to pressure the most corrupt stupidest President since Ulysses Grant. Thankfully ahole Rose is dead so that pathetic loser won’t benefit.
As a principled stance, you can respect it despite disagreeing it should be applied in the first place, case by case. However, walking back a principle stance after death is pathetic. It suggests it was never about the principle. Had the MLB forgiven Rose, this wouldn’t be the case, the principle could stand. But now we know it was about pettiness and that is really insulting that they waited until after his death. It’s cowardly not to forgive someone when they are alive and wait until they’re gone.
“Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game”. Manfred
I disagree, vehemently, with this assertion. Electing a deceased individual to the HoF who had been banned for cause, will undermine the integrity of the game.
Obviously!!! He had the audacity to say obviously while making such a stupid statement
I’m having a hard time with this one. As political as it can get–no coherent logic. You want to un-ban Rose, go ahead, give your reasons, and move on. But an entire class, throwing with WS? Come on. A reflection on the times, I suppose, with no accountability.
About time this has been corrected.
Absolutely sickening that mlb waited for rose to die, and only then re instate him
All time hit king
Never saw the hall
They intentionally did not want him to have that honor while alive
What a Disgrace!!!!! Absolutely disgusting
Rip pete
Pete knew the rules, he knew what the punishment was.. and he broke the rules anyway. Why is anyone else but Pete Rose to blame?
pete knew what rule??? what punishment????
“the Hall of Fame did not have a rule barring people on the permanently ineligible list from Hall of Fame consideration.”
this isnt even about pete’s gambling. thats not the point!!!! the point is mlb intentionally waited, just to spite him. not bc of “rules” but bc they wanted to HURT pete. and mlb knew the worst way to hurt him is to keep him away from the HOF. for years i knew it in my heart, the day pete rose dies, is the day pete rose is a HOFer
He accepted the punishment in return of MLB stopping their investigation
He knew the rule that was posted in every single clubhouse: no gambling. It was not a secret that gambling on games in which you could impact the outcome was strictly prohibited and came with a lifetime ban.
again and for the last time bc you people seem to be living on planet mars
1. there was NO rule that gambling led to HOF ban
2. pete rose was not a good dude. so he will not be elected to the good guy HOF. thats not what we’re discussing
3. pete rose was not a very smart guy. thats also not what we’re discussing.
4. pete rose is a 1st ballot slam dunk no brainer hall of famer and 1 of the greatest players of all time. you do not discuss the history of baseball without pete rose’s achievements on the field as a player.
5. every single one of you missed my original point, not surprisingly. it wasnt only that rose belongs in the HOF but that mlb intentionally and spitefully kept him out during his lifetime and were intentionally and methodically waiting for him to pass away to reinstate him. and that is incredibly and undeniably f’ed up beyond words.
bonus 6. how many of you argued to no end that the astros should be suspended/banned? HOW MANY OF YOU? because THAT was players cheating on the field. and they did not get so much as a slap on the wrist. all of you arguing are complete idiots. and total hypocrites. and have zero love for the game and the history.
He should still be banned..it should beem changed to simply remove the word lifetime pete was a cheater and a liar
he bet on his OWN team to win
he never bet against his team, he never took roids, he never cheated the game as a player. the astros cheated on the field as players and won a WS and didnt get a slap on the wrist!!!!! not 1 single game suspended or banned or ANYTHING.
mlb iNTENTIONALLY waited and waited for rose to die. they would never ever let him see his plaque or let him give a speech. its absurd and disgusting beyond words
Oh you know he never bet on his pwn team??? Wow. And you know that how? Because you believe serial liar Pete Rose?
Even if that is true betting on your own team is clearly against the most widely known rule. It also doesn’t mean it can’t negatively impact your team as you make a decision to win today’s game that you put a big bet on that might lead you to overuse a player, especially a pitcher, trying to cash in that could hurt the team tomorrow or injure the player. There is no defense for the damage any gambling inside the game can do to the game.
@chandlerbing, if I only bet on some games for my team to win, am I letting my bookie know that my team is not going to win the games I didn’t bet on? My bookie could sure use that hint.
@chandler – You sound like one of those dudes that spend a lot of time and effort on here championing the Trevor Bauer cause as well.
The Pete Rose case is complex, as he was undeniably Hall-worthy on the baseball field. But he was also an incredible a-hole in many ways so it is hard to summon much sympathy for him in the larger sense.
A lot of HOFers were not pleasant people to be around, They are in for what they did as players, not because they were saints.
They also didn’t break the one rule posted in every clubhouse. Pete Rose did.
Well let’s see if Rose does get in, that is not for sure thing. The sports writers are not going to be involved; it is going to be a select committee of 12 or 13 selected by the person that runs the HOF.
Now where doe the Houston Astros players that were on the roster for the WS against the Dodgers should they be voted into the HOF if elected, they did admit to some cheating during the WS, How far do they take it. Then you have the steroid group, do they get allowed in once they pass away?
So, if one day a player is eligible for the HOF who has since been convicted of murdering five women, they should get in too right? As you said, it’s not a morality contest.
Being eligible and getting in are two different things.
Pete is a scum bag. Didn’t deserve to see it.
Contemporary Era Committee votes in December at this year’s winter meetings on Players from 1980-present and not again until 2028. Would be surprised to see any real discussion on Rose until then.
Manfred loves gambling he is happy when the fans, mangers, and players also gamble.
Fans gambling is good for interest in all sports. Players or managers or umpires or anyone who could impact the results of games gambling is really bad for the sport. That’s why the rule has been very clear and in place for so long, everyone knows it.
how long do you have to be dead? can someone banned pull a flatliners and get reinstated?
Let’s test it on Tucupita Marcano…
I have my personal feelings about this but I’ll try to keep them personal.
HOWEVER, when MLB actively courts FanDuel and other gambling enterprises in today’s game, it can hardly parse the “right” and “wrong” of betting on the game. All morality about the Game is suspect when you issue a soft boundary to players not to personally bet on games.
It’s kind of a “nose of the camel in the tent” kind of thing.
Personally, I am not a fan of sports betting. However, after States legalized it, there is not much a league can do. They can’t stop a company from taking bets on their games. If they takr a moral stance and completely distance themselves from gambling, they risk irrelevance compared to other sports.
I’m not sure why you say “soft boundary”.. players, club officials, umpires, etc. are all strictly prohibited from betting on baseball and MLB and other leagues appear to be enforcing.
They definitely didn’t do anything to stop the legalization of sports betting by opposing it publicly or run a campaign against it. They actually got into bed with these groups. They’ve even supported one of their worst owners to move into the Den of the Gamblers.
Principles are absolutes. Therefore, any exceptions made to break the principle, it is no longer a principle. It is a relative morality that can move whenever someone sees fit. Hence why they’ve given up banning these figures. The men in control of the game aren’t principled men, they do what they want and justify how they can.
In fairness, MLB actively opposed the legalization of sports wagering in New Jersey. Once that ship sailed, then the MLB saw dollar signs and dove into bed with Fan Duel, etc.
So they lost once, so it’s fair they join the other side? A principle is an absolute so you can’t give up regardless. It just points out they are just using this to “keep” the public perception of the games are fair. They may be but why should I believe them if they don’t follow what they say are their principles.
@Cleveland – I admire the quaintness of your argument, attempting to stand on principle in the age of Strump and his merry band of bootlickers and cadaver dogs.
All sports are more fun for fans with gambling, what is wrong with that? Football is really fun to bet and is like less than 10 minutes of action per game, it is popular because it is really conducive to fantasy leagues and betting. Letting fans bet is nowhere near equating to supporting people in the game betting.
ffrhb14Sox — Aesop’s fable “The Goose that Laid the Golden Eggs” is a good place to start. It refers to the short-sighted destruction of a valuable resource, or to an unprofitable action motivated by greed.
Both the fans and the people inside the game are the same. The only difference is who is the golden goose. You are the golden goose when you gamble. And when people in the game bet on games, the sport is the golden goose. The league’s interest is to protect their golden goose. It is on you to protect yourself.
The point is that if we are killing golden goose, why isn’t their golden goose off limits? It’s a classic slippery slope situation. It doesn’t mean it will happen because you like to bet on sports. But it is a whole lot closer than if there was a principled stance.
Courting betting sites for fans who can’t impact the game and banning people who can impact the game for betting seems like a loose correlation to me.
MLB has reinstated these guys, but isn’t the HOF a separate entity? I guess reinstatement is the first step.
Yes, the HOF is a non profit business not affiliated with MLB. To me, this is a fluff story with the sole purpose of drumming up attention thus potential revenue opportunity for the HOF. Ho hum. Enough. Let’s PLAY BALL.
Right on!!!
The voters won’t vote Rose into the Hall in 2026. Because writers have to make statements – see Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, . . .
But maybe Joe Jackson in 2026 due to a movie.
And Rose in time.
Its not up to writers only his peers…
An era of zero conviction?
Ugh, no. This clown lied about betting on baseball and then spent 1987 betting on his own team’s games. Win or lose, that’s a downright degenerate who has no place in the Hall much less being reinstated.
LOU: “Hey Tommy, the Reds are playing the Cards tonight. Did Pete bet on his team?
TOMMY: “No, he held off”
LOU: “Give me 5 grand on the Cards please Tommy”
This is what happens when you ONLY bet on your team. I’m so tired of the “he only bet on his team to win” argument. The rules are EXTREMELY clear. Always have been. MLB players are NOT ALLOWED TO BET ON BASEBALL.
Pete Rose was his own worst enemy. He lied for 20 years and only changed his story to promote a book. He held signings down the street from the Hall of Fame for years.
Had he come out right away and said yep, I did it, went on Oprah and all the talk shows expressing remorse, it might have been different. As you may recall, it was said he could apply for reinstatement. He may never have worked in the game again, and I don’t think he should have, but the Hall of Fame (as a player) in his lifetime could have been a possibility.
After all, America is a forgiving society. People voted Richard Nixon into president the second time, and voted Trump in again after he butchered dealing with Covid. People are pushing for the Menendez brothers to get out of jail, for crying out loud.
But Pete did none of that and paid the price. Not to mention a lot of other things here and there that didn’t endearment him to the baseball establishment despite former teammates like Joe Morgan and Mike Schmidt trying to help him. That’s squarely on Pete Rose.
That’s pretty much the real story over the years. A sad but true tale all the way around. Sadder still is how baseball were hypocrites getting in bed with gamblers and continuing this tale of no betting on baseball that has been a rule for 100 years.
@ThisOneBTTR: – In the main, I agree with you on Pete (and I loved him as a kid and during his Phillies tenure – we all thought Charlie Hustle was pretty terrific). But he was an incredibly flawed and not very bright human being that was filled with arrogance and entitlement and thought that he was not accountable for his actions. Does this set of characteristics sound familiar?
You mention the current “prez” being voted back in despite fumbling Covid. And yet neglect that we also forgave him fomenting an insurrection, lying about it and then making sure that he pardoned all of those “fine folks”, which is merely the biggest crime of his many, many other concerns.
I find it hard to equate “forgiveness” to those that are utterly blind to the clown conman – it is sheer, willful ignorance.
rose was addicted to gambling. mantle was addicted to alcohol. there is no evidence that rose’s addiction impacted his performance whereas mantle admitted to playing while hungover. meanwhile, i have to watch 50 draft king promos a second and all of them have a ludicrous “know someone with a gambling problem?” disclaimer. it’s a joke that rose wasn’t inducted in his lifetime
Pete Rose was Wander Franco before Wander Franco was Wander Franco. Should we overlook that?
Pete Rose can rot in hell.
mariano rivera is being accused of much worse. should he be removed from the hall? how about kirby puckett?
Yes to both. This should not be hard.
i respect your consistency
As do I.
Trying to blame Rose’s behavior on a disease is pathetic. Plenty of things he couldve bet on! Mantle wasnt taking a flask out on the field
gambling addiction is as much a disease as alcoholism. not excusing the behavior just stating a fact
A player not putting himself in the best position to perform impacts him and his team and something a Manager should control or over time his diminished performance means he will be replaced. Betting on the game exposes the whole game to integrity issues, it is the most consistently and known rule by anyone engaged with baseball. Not even as close as apples and oranges.
I see a very thin line here between “forgiving” and “just plain stupid”. Nice try though.
If Rose is okay then the Black Sox never happened, right? Dead gamblers are okay, but live ones arent? Explain the logic, please.
Well Roberto Alomar, we wish you a long, happy, healthy life ‘out of the HOF’…
It’s not like they killed anyone. Aren’t we supposed to forgive? What a joke. Rose should have been in years ago.
Just r*ped a 15-year-old. Forgiveness usually requires remorse
Don’t respond to this Eighty Raw, he’s all over this site with his accusations, the guy thinks he knows something when the opposite is true. He’s an absolute coward.
Gutless decision.
Even more Proof that Rob Manfred should have never been Bud Selig’s successor because Pete Rose SHOULD NEVER Be put in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Once again Rob Manfred proves he has ZERO Respect for the Game.
Pete Rose bet on the Game of Baseball & He bet on his Own Team & He never fully admitted his wrong doings.
This is one of the Biggest Rob Manfred Screw Ups
It’s not up to Manfred to enshrine him. The HOF ERA Committee will vote and make the final decision and they’re not going to be easily influenced by politics.
Rose did eventually confess to betting on baseball; he wrote a book about it.
Rose Never did admit to betting on his Own Team which we know that he did & as long as Rose was on the Banned List he was not Eligible for the Hall of Fame so yes Rose’s Hall of Fame Eligibility was in the Hands of Rob Manfred
He did in “My Prison Without Bars.
He was a serial liar; he accepted the permanent illegibility punishment in return of MLB stopping their investigation into his gambling. We’ll never know the depth of his gambling but to trust a word Pete ever said is foolish
And he was a rapist and pedophile. Don’t forget to mention that.
I’m not debating whether he belongs in the HOF or not.
Primitive Screwhead
How many days did he spend in jail for the accusations you’re making.
100% behind this decision… shouve been written years ago as what they hand is LIFETIME ban… if a player’s lifetime is done (death), the ban should be over, Still, i think i wouldve waited a few years after Pete’s death. This feels insensitive at this moment. They do this in 2027-28 and no harm done. I’d imagine that this will be the cradle for another rule for steroid users and Trashtros cheaters that were never punished.
It wasnt a “lifetime” ban, champ
Ted Williams anticipated this. He once advocated for Shoeless Joe Jackson to be inducted into the HOF posthumously. “He said, “Joe Jackson was banned for life. His life is over, so the ban should be over”.
be rewarded when you die in prison! joke!!
Time to vote Rose and shoeless Joe in. Only in this country would they continue to punish in death. Get it done. Decades overdue.
ABSOLUTELY Agree!!
Another win for Trump, who’s been lobbying MLB for Rose.
Next up for Manfred: putting and end to Double Secret Probation.
Does he get rid of the Cone of Silence as well?
pete rose is a pedophile
Say “was” lest Jr come after you.
We don’t know what the senior is doing in hades
Prove it.
i am permanently ineligible due to never having played major league baseball. therefore, at the time of my death, my surviving family will demand that i be enshrined
And by enshrined, you mean embalmed…
whatever it takes to get into that building
I mean…you could always just buy a ticket.
i prefer the embalming idea
A bit perverse, but respectable.
The Hall of Fame needs to have a separate ballot for formerly banned players. With the new rules requiring a minimum number of votes to remain on the ballot, it would be unfortunate if their additions led to someone else being permanently removed from future consideration.
And their name is Robert Paulson
Who cares
Bend the knee, Manfred, you spineless wuss.
Just because he has been reinstated doesn’t mean he will be elected.
To paraphrase a writer who was referring to Barry Bonds and steroid use…”When every player who did not bet on baseball is elected to the HOF I may vote for him”.
Baseball writers are idiots. That should have became abundantly clear when Ichiro wasn’t unanimous.
Ichiro was a worse hitter and worse fielder than Adrian Beltre (to just name another recent HOFer). Why isnt your argument about Beltre?
Worse hitter? Try saying that about a guy with a lifetime batting average of .311 – that is Ichiro’s lifetime average. Yes, he didn’t hit for power but he has more hits lifetime than Pete Rose if you count his NPB numbers. Any one who hit over .300 for as long as he did is HOF material period. Oh, and Ichiro has 10 gold gloves. Beltre has….five. So the stats and awards say Ichiro was a better hitter AND a better fielder.
Can’t count the NPB stats, you’d have to consider every hit Pete had after Little League then. Ichiro is very deserving of the HOF but he isn’t the all time hit king in the highest level of baseball.
Why didn’t you just post “I’ve never seen Ichiro play but I want to take a shot at him anyway.” You don’t win 10 gold gloves and tally over 4300 hits by accident.
Both Ichiro and Beltre were outstanding players who both rank among the all-time greats who have ever played the game.
Wouldn’t it be a pisser if Rose didn’t garner the votes to be inducted? Better yet, how awkward would it be if he wasn’t even nominated for voting consideration? Neither one is very likely but I’d love to see the reactions from Manfred and Trump if either one came to fruition.
Pete Rose, Jr is buying a new suit today and preparing the acceptance speech for Sr.
He can just wear the same one from this scumbag father’s funeral. Rest in piss pedo Pete.
I think celebrating someone posthumously is kinda a weak move and a backhand towards those that were banned…
Manfred just tryna keep his job at this point I guess
Shoeless Joe shouldn’t have ever been on the list and Rose did far worse in his personal life that professional in my opinion.
Gene Paulette was the first player ever to be permanently banned from baseball.
Good trivia question.
One (allegedly) threw a World Series (while hitting over .300), another had a gambling problem that was caught. Let’s hope Pete Rose Jr has a speech ready for his dad’s induction. It has a chance to be one of the best speeches in Cooperstown history.
Manfred’s logic is impaired. MLB’s reputation is clearly harmed by celebrating such a pathetic human as Pete Rose, dead or not. He was a scumbag, and if you can’t refrain from celebrating a total scumbag, you’ve got some screwed up priorities.
The best result here is Pete remaining out of the Hall.
To be fair, Manfred’s logic has been impaired since day 1 as Commissioner.
They should just set up a Hall of Infamy for these guys in the Hall. Let them in but separate them and make an example of them that those who do wrong must be remembered for their infamy even if they were great.
Pretty sure there mentions of Pete Rose in the Hall for his accomplishments.
Shoeless Joe belongs in, pedo Pete can stay out.
Commissioner finally did something smart!! A big FYOU TO CNN.
What does CNN have to do with it?
Apparently sex with a minor isn’t enough for a permanent exemption!
From the AP: “Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred met this week [week of 13 April] at the White House with President Donald Trump…Trump said in February he intends to pardon Rose, who pleaded guilty in 1990 to two counts of filing false tax returns and served a five-month prison sentence.”
Just a small omitted detail. How many felonies do you get?
Predators stick together
Chicken $&@& move once again. They are either eligible or they are not. What’s the point of waiting until they die? Is it just punishment to be sure they never get to see it? Does it wipe away their offenses? Plus now anyone else will know they get in when they die so what’s the point.
I think Joe has been a travesty and I’m glad that at least it’s resolved – Pete is more nuanced because he never admitted it or apologized – I don’t think his death changes what he did.
Put him in the Bad Haircut Hall of Fame and call it a day.
Mom always said he was five years behind with his hair styles.
I wonder what Paul Giamatti’s thoughts on this are…
Well, his brother Marcus is calling it “a serious dark day for baseball”. So you can imagine what Paul thinks.
He’s trying not to think about it. It’ll give him a heart attack.
He’ll take it out on NWA
Go Trump 👍
@johnzini – Anyone with a functioning brain and ethic wants him to go…far, far away and to a place that will never allow his return. Perhaps we can arrange a nice long trip on his new plane?
Can it run into a helicopter, too?
I like the way that you think, Six Buckets.
Sorta mean, though. A lot of collateral damage.
I’m very pleased this happened in my lifetime.
I hope they put Rose’s plaque right next to Ty Cobb’s. They were both sorry human beings.
@Windowpane
Been reading Al Stump lately?
Totally classless.
About time! People pay their penance in life, death ends it all.
For anyone interested, I’d highly recommend Gene Carney’s “Burying the Black Sox” when evaluating Shoeless Joe and the rest of the team. The author looks at the situation from various angles (management, league, players, gamblers). It also compares favorably to “Eight Men Out”, which was in many ways a fictionalized account of the team where the author didn’t do nearly as much homework on the subject.
I truly believe, after reading the book, that players like Chick Gandil tried to convince the gamblers that Jackson was in on the fix. They gave Jackson the money, which he tried to return to owner Charles Comiskey. Comiskey, in return, didn’t accept the money because that would’ve meant he knew about the fix and was ultimately in a state of denial Comiskey has his lawyers advise Jackson, Weaver and the other Sox players involved to confess to the deed with the belief that the players would end up being suspended for a year or so (they would’ve then be able to return to the league afterward. This belief was based on previous slaps on the wrist based upon previous gambling incidents in the sport (including World Series over the previous few years which were never really investigated extensively). Ultimately, the ascension of Landis had a much different take on this (for the betterment of the game) but he was unwilling to listen to appeal requests from Jackson or Weaver.
There was no such thing as a Baseball Hall of Fame in 1920, so the players back then had no idea of what their future punishment would constitute.(This doesn’t excuse them for anything they may have done. Of course, he and Weaver could’ve reported their knowledge of the gambling to the proper authorities, but they would have run the risks of ratting on and alienating their teammates — a no-no at the time). The “guilty” pleas were filed away in a Cook Count courthouse in 1920 but ultimately stolen prior to their criminal case (likely by someone paid by Comiskey), which led to the acquittal of the eight men since there wasn’t sufficient enough evidence otherwise at the time to convict the players of defrauding the game. What happened to the money Jackson wanted to return? This is only my belief, but he was unsure what to do with the cash initially. Ultimately, after a few years and no return to the game possible, he decided to spend it on creating his small business in Greenville, South Carolina. I could be wrong on some of this; that’s why I recommend people to read the book so they could decide for themselves.
This ultimately doesn’t matter, but it’s very conceivable that the Reds were actually the better team that year anyway. Granted, the team didn’t have much in the way of future Hall-of-Famers (Edd Roush), but their pitching staff all had career years that year and it was an excellent defensive squad. The entire Black Sox scandal has erased the legitimacy of that team’s titles (for better or worse), even though it won quite a few more games that year than did the White Sox.
Anyway, please accept my apologies writing such a long piece. I guess I got carried away.
One thing I’ll mention is about Eight Men Out. The biggest problem with that book is it’s as close to a love letter to Buck Weaver as one can get. The movie only emphasized that. Everyone always points to Weaver’s batting average during the 1919 WS. No one ever mentions the hit and run play that Collins says Weaver blew in game 1. Or that Weaver had 0 RBIs. As for Jackson, a few analysts have pointed out a few defensive plays that were questionable that are never mentioned.
Ordering it now, thanks for the rec!
Just because they are eligible doesn’t mean that they will be selected. The steroid users are eligible, but none of them have been selected by the writers.
The writers won’t be voting on them.
Everybody who is crying either way, just shut your mouth. This is one of the only good things Manfred has done.
This has nothing to do with Pete rose. He did this for his family. Pete rose is dead. He will never know if he gets in or does not. This is purely for his family and it is a good thing.
He should not have been let in while he was alive because he bet on baseball and no one will know if he bet against his team or not. This rule should be this severe because if it was not, everyone in Major League Baseball (minors included)would be taking chances to do it.
Everyone who thinks other wise is an idiot. 🤐 just stfu
In a sworn statement, a woman identified only as Jane Doe said she got a call from Rose in 1973, when she was 14 or 15 years old. She began meeting with Rose shortly after that, at his home in Cincinnati. There, before she was 16, she said they began a sexual relationship.
Doe also said they met at locations outside Ohio, where they also had sex.
Rose admitted they knew each other and had sex, but said Doe was 16 years old at the time and denied they had sex outside Ohio. He said the sexual relationship began in 1975, the year he turned 34 years old. Rose would have been married for 11 years at that point, with two children.
No wonder Republicans like him
Step away from politics, it’ll help your sanity. Do you see anyone here on a baseball thread saying he would be a Democrat if he liked showering with his minor daughter or sleeping with his brothers widow?
Ohio refused to bring charges against him! Wonder why? Maybe because the powers that be were fans of the Big Red Machine.
No one cares. It was probably your mother, you shouldn’t talk negatively about your father like that.
Lawyers
That what permanent means, of.course….
Lifetime ban seems to include the length in the name
He r*ped a 15-year-old.
Haven’t looked deeply into it but we sure have a loose definition of “ra*ped” in our culture. At least say “he was in a relationship with a 15 y/o” instead. One could certainly argue a 16-18 year old is no more able to make a responsible choice than a 15 y/o. Legally the courts agree. This is why they can’t drink or even smoke today (but they can get blown up in a war). But once we are 18 or 21 we are 100% mature… My morals are 100% perfect. I’m not bias… This isn’t a modern ideal with no historical precedent. Societies used to put people through rigorous training and rituals to ensure they were mature at puberty. Our society keeps us young as long as possible. It’s our ideal. We are adults at puberty physically if not psychologically. And the later is merely a product of a lost society. That said I do think it’s weird.
It’s amazing how people like “Eighty raw” come on here and make a false statement about a dead person. There’s zero evidence of his baseless accusation. But then again, that is the society we live in where irrelevant people like him can say what he likes about other people and get away with it. Clown world.
She said she was 15 when they were having sex. If you don’t consider that evidence, then you won’t be satisfied. Most 15-year-olds in the early 1970’s were not that sophisticated at collecting evidence.
The banned list was full of unsavory people. The Hall gains nothing from this. The Hall was never diminished because Rose the Hit King wasn’t in. Manfred is taking the integrity from the game throughout his entire tenure.
Horrible decision. Permanent means permanent, which should survive a player’s death. Well, not anymore. Better change the name of the list then. Rose may be the hit king but he bet on baseball and that strikes at the heart of the game.
As far as the hall, Rose, Jackson and the others now will be eligible. But don’t hold your breath on any of them getting in. Unless the HOF makes an exception, all will need an Era committee to gain enshrinement. I don’t see 9 of 12 ignoring his gambling and saying he should be in the HOF.
If a panel was willing to enshrine an undeserving player to force the BBWAA to get their act together, there will eventually be 9 to get Rose in. That player was Harold Baines, paving the way for other to get in after having a hard time doing so in prior ballots. Especially DH players.
The odds MLB.com display on the app reveal, even more than the wall-to-wall ads, that the sport is going the way of jai alai. Manfred, being a lawyer, is as lacking in principle and backbone as the Big Law firms, but in his weakness he reveals that the sport of baseball is just owned by gambling interests now, so there’s a kind of inadvertent honesty in it. My own children have zero interest in baseball, and they are absolutely right to care nothing for a game played, or “played,” to amuse gamblers.
Might get to change my username soon!
Plenty of people willing to support an accused sex predator who doesn’t think rules apply to him and who lies constantly.
Hey if you guys don’t like it, stop watching baseball. I bet you won’t… stick it to the man show them who the boss is by not watching baseball ever again….
You can start watching pickle ball. This world is filled with Nancie’s now.
You seem overly emotional there, Bud.
And it appears you are too weak to endure conflicting opinions.
L.
BTW, baseball is every bit as “Nancie” as pickle ball. Try football or hockey, they’re for men.
Football is very soft compared to 20 years ago. Every passing record pretty much is set by a QB in the last 2 decades because they outlawd defense in favor of points for short attention span fans. Baseball has also instituted rules that have hindered the game like the Posey rule. Claiming any modern sport is for real men over where it was decades ago is laughable.
If you are so against what is happening… then stop following baseball… stop watching baseball… never mention it again. It would be the best thing for you and for everyone else who is actually sane.
I’m not against what happened today but man I don’t know how you and your ego can ever fit in the same room.
So you can give the finger to everyone, say the rules don’t apply to you, agree to a ban, lie for 20 years, then admit guilt all while whining about it all for 30 years, become completely dead, and be in the HOF. Nice.
I don’t care how many hits he collected, he shouldn’t be in the HoF because of what he did off the diamond. The fact that they’re going to allow him to even be eligible is an embarrassment to the sport.
there was nothing remotely “moral” in Bouton even writing that book; that being said, for all those here despising Rose, Bonds, Clemens, etc – well, by the standards y’all are using, Mickey Mantle would be booted out of the Hall in a New York minute.
If someone like Bonds, who broke no baseball rules, can’t get into the HOF because of “integrity”, there’s no way anyone who broke the #1 rule of the game which literally protects the integrity of the game, should ever get in.
Agree on the integrity of the game but Bonds stealing Hank Aaron’s record by taking steroids stole history from a legitimate player…that’s as bad for the integrity of the game. Coaching now with a former pro who said some players openly said they will take the 80 game ban because they will keep the muscle gains and they can’t compete without it. That forces others to make a poor health decision because of cheaters. Bonds didn’t visit BALCO because he was naturally talented enough without it, robbed the history of the game.
Now that the ban is gone, some gm
will look into signing them .
Eddie Cicotte had Hall of Fame numbers.
Probably would have gotten there with 2-3 more good years.
Pete knew when he bet on MLB baseball that he would get banned if he got caught. He bet anyway. That being said, if he posthumously makes the HOF, I’m ok with that.
Truly, a sad, sad day for baseball.
apple.news/Ag8FALTZvTuejOmBxXkTYkA
Nowhere in the rule Rose violated does it say “lifetime ban.” That’s a colloquialism. The rule says “permanently ineligible.”
There’s some kind of silliness in the whole “Hey you messed up during your career so we can’t let you in, but hey when you die maybe we get you in there.” MLB more than any other sports organization wants to have its cake and eat it too. In whatever moment as long as it means profit (i.e. steroid era) MLB overlooks it until there is some push back and then they pull the old “we had no idea this was going on” card. In my opinion put the folks who produced to a hall of fame level in the hall of fame. Put up a display in said Hall of Fame acknowledging the failures of the MLB in regards to regulating fair play at those times when it became questionable. You can’t solely blame one party or the other when both parties should share blame. When I was a kid I was a purist as far as only those unblemished careers deserved to be in the Hall. Nowadays as an adult you realize way more people than just the player are responsible for things, and all parties involved should share any discrediting.
MLB is to blame because Pete Rose bet on baseball?
No, but you cant tell me they had no idea things were going on and decided to do nothing to stop it in general. Mind you thats more pointed at the use of performance enhancing drugs or drugs of abuse in the game than betting on the game. But I imagine some folks did bet on the game and got away with it. And I imagine the MLB had at least some inclination to inquire but didn’t.
Of course MLB turned a blind eye to PED use for as long as they could. Home runs are popular, popularity brings profit.
PED use was not an offense they brought a lifetime ban (unless maybe repeated infractions).
I’ve always had the mindset that if Bonds, using PEDs, was facing a pitcher, using PEDs, then it equals out. I honestly don’t care one way or other if Bonds, Clemens etc, makes the HOF. However, I don’t think Rose should have made it, because he knew the consequences when he placed those bets. I always said if he made the HOF, it would be after he was dead. I honestly think that was the right way to do it.
I mean you’re probably right in general, it just kind of bugs me when the only ones benefitting from it is the MLB in general. Now they can also benefit from it by making a big deal about it again, so personally it just seems extra scummy after the guy has passed away. But I definitely see the point your making there. Maybe I just lean more in favor of the player than the sport as a whole I guess.
You support the judicial system attacking your political opponents? How third world of you.
Pedo should be banned for that Jerry Lewis-Lloyd Christmas bowl cut alone, aside from sleeping w,12-14 yos.
Well, the good news is that Rose is still dead.
rose is a bad man, if character clause is taken seriously he should not be in
If character clause were taken seriously, Dale Murphy would be in.
Diie steroids users then maybe. NOT.
Will it be referred to as The Ohtani Rule?
It will be referred to as the Fan Duels rule.
HoF eligibility and a lifetime ban from any participation in MLB and MiLB in any form should be two separate issues.
HoF eligibility should be determined by the HoF, not MLB.
The Lifetime Ban list is MLB’s rule for attempting to maintain the integrity of professional baseball.
In my opinion, this list should be posted on MLB’s website. The list should also be used for more than just betting on or rigging baseball games. This ban should also be used for non-uniformed personnel, from owners down.
Some players who come to mind that should currently be on this list are: players who tested positive for or admitted to using banned PED substances, pedophiles, convicted felons, anyone who supplied banned PED substances to players.
It is. The HOF chooses to not have players be eligible if they are subject to a permanent ban from MLB.
Wow, so many sanctimonious folks here. When I was a kid, the HOF held a revered reputation. It was supposed to represent perfection.
Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle, who I was old enough to read about, were banned from baseball at that time. Not kicked out of the HOF, not playing anymore anyway. But kind of in limbo. Because they were trying to make extra money signing autographs at hotel casinos. What was the point? Then they were reinstated. Ferguson Jenkins was suspended part of a season (drugs), finished his career, made the HOF. Other players did drugs, then suddenly drugs were really taboo. Some players got into the HOF surely having done them, some did not, some got in later.
The HOF and baseball with it, has no right being sanctimonious. Want to be holier than thou and keep a ban up from a hundred years ago and advertise FanDuel in the next breath? That just looks silly. Explain the history, take the hit, and move on. The HOF already opened the door for Ortiz, may as well let them all in now.
Baseball has flaws, the players weren’t perfect, many of them weren’t great people off the field. Those citing the character clause should keep in mind that it was created in 1944, at a time when major league baseball was actively segregationist..
Am I perfect? No
Are all members of the HOF perfect? No
Did any of the other members break the one rule that says “Don’t do this or you get a permanent ban?” No
It wasn’t generic character flaws that got him named. It was a very specific rule for very specific reasons.
Uhhh,Jackson’s age 30 season wasn’t his last. He played his final game when he was 33.
How do you know Manfred is lying? His lips are moving.
The fact that they lifted this ban after he dies is a joke!!
So if someone dies 4 years after the best career of their lives, they can’t get in?
According to some ‘accusations are facts’. Patently they are not.
Baseball (MLB) talking about character, and there they are flogging gambling sites to people. Oh, the irony indeed.
Or what about the Dodgers, having the Sisters of Perpetual indulgence as ‘special guests’ at one of their home games – MLB approved it. What disgusting hypocrites.
So once you die, all the bad things you did don’t matter.
Too bad for Rose that he didn’t have an interpreter.
There are so many sinless people on this baseball site, all of perfect character, never done a thing wrong in their lives.. All of them must be going straight to heaven with the sinless and perfect lives they have all led sitting in judgement of others. It is quite sickening, but oh, the irony indeed.
He is without sin and and all that….
Pete Rose groomed minors. Is that enough to judge?
uvmfiji
Did he? How many years in jail did he get sentenced for that?
The same amount as Michael Jackson?
Thank you for acknowledging our inherent perfection.
Nobody here is perfect. But if you are a pedophile you are an absolute monster. There is no saving that soul…it is devoid of any goodness and is empty and black.
Yanks4life22
If you are….
Now just tell me, how many years in jail was he sentenced for what you accuse him of?
Why do those of you that champion these relatively awful people revert to the specious argument that you are using – “how many years in jail…”? Trevor Bauer; Pete Rose; Orange Guy (oh, well he was convicted of 34 counts but I am sure that doesn’t matter to you), and so on.
When we are talking about honoring folks with very privileged positions…the HoF; president; CEO’s of major corporations; high profile and very highly paid careers (pro athletes, actors and artists, etc.) should there not be a baseline of some level of decency, professionalism, expertise, competence and / standards of behavior to be in those roles?
@Carver: What is your opinion of MLK? He was a serial philanderer and alledgedly had “relations” with teenagers and prostitutes.
Fred McGriff HR, weird flex defending a pedo. Sad that you think jail time = guilty or not. If everyone that committed a crime was in jail, there wouldn’t be anyone in Washington DC
Whatever you say Vogt. I am on a sports board, yet you want to talk about Washington DC.
Yours is the “weird flex”, because the majority of what you believe isn’t fact, it is accusation or she said, he said, not fact. That’s the world you live in.
Furthermore, and shamefully, people have been sent to j**ail for alleged c**rimes they did not commit, for things like m#*urder, se**ual assault, ra**e, but you believe ALL the accusers.
God help anyone if you are ever on a jury.
And yet here you are on a baseball site defending a pedo…He admitted it to a grand jury, moron.
And your last paragraph helped prove my point, jail time doesn’t equal guilty verdict whereas lack of jail time doesn’t equal innocence.
Vogt
I am actually not, but there you have it.
Remind me again, Pete Rose, was he ever convicted of this ‘crime’ you’re referring to? Thought so.
Again, I hope you and your ilk are never on a jury, you’re a danger to society.
Please use your brain Fred… Please
The man admitted to doing it lol what more do you need? Just because he’s not in jail for it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it…wtf does me having to be on a jury have to do with Anything… The man admitted it. You are seriously challenged when it comes to thinking. Bless your heart
My guess is for the same reason you guys always revert to the same spacious arguments. “He WaSn’T fOuNd InNoCeNt ThE dA dEcLiNeD tO fIlE cHaRgEs!” Because apparently the case being so weak that the DA didn’t even try it is a point against the dude’s favor, rather than in it.
“ Because apparently the case being so weak that the DA didn’t even try it is a point against the dude’s favor, rather than in it.”
That makes zero sense.
Makes complete sense.
Maybe they can put Shoeless Joe Jackson’s shoes in the Hall of Fame.
Throw off all the visitors as they stare at the exhibit.
Embarrassing PR for head clown Manfred.
“Many of the other players are mere footnotes in this decision. A handful of them were banned for gambling infractions before they had the chance to rack up the accolades necessary for Hall of Fame consideration.”
Eddie Cicotte has a plausible case for the HOF based on his record before the Black Sox scandal. A 209-148 record (when starting pitchers’ won-loss records were much more meaningful) and a career 2.38 ERA. Okay, he pitched through the deadball era when earned run averages were low. But even adjusting for this, Baseball Reference gives him 57.9 WAR and Fangraphs 47.3 WAR. Not overwhelming HOF numbers but at least worth a look.
He won’t get in, of course, and I’m not sure that anybody on the banned list should get a plaque. But he piled up some notable achievements.
Sainthood also now to end at death
This is such a dumb precedent, Eddie Cicotte is the best baseball performer on this list.
None of these guys have anything on Steve Howe. He was suspended 7 times in his career.
I hope Pete is also remembered for his appearance in the film ‘Bruno:”.
His arrogance was incredibly entertaining!
Pete Rose Bet on Baseball during his Baseball Career FACT. Pete Rose has been accused and never refuted a statutory rape allegation. The HOF still has a Character Clause to be adhered to. He also would have to be added to the List that the Classic Baseball Era takes a look back at players from past decades and their contributions to the game of Baseball and the MLB. I find that people can argue about most topics Sports, Politics and religions. I find the country to be split with ideas of how it should be run. But when I am at Yankee Stadium and other Parks or Fields, I tend to believe we are all one voice enjoying the Game Of baseball. the American Pastime!!! so to me all this does is allow Disgraced Ballplayers after death to be able to get a 2nd look. at their deeds and playing career. If people don’t realize Pete Rose and i think Shoeless Joe Jackson …. ARE in the HOF they just aren’t Honored with a PLAQUE and bust of likeness. They have equipment and their stories are told of their Career Achievements. So, it’s the Character clause and permanent ban (now lifetime ban) that kept them players with no plaques.
Joe Jackson should be unanimous.
Pete Rose should get 0 votes.
I will leave the Pete Rose debate to others.
But Joe Jackson was never proven to have thrown a game, never freely admitted it, and his performance strongly testified otherwise. The other seven players banned said that Jackson was never involved in any way.
Jackson was guilty of two things. He was functionally illiterate…and he was a huge star. Both factors were used against him by everybody involved. The original conspirators used his name to lend validity to their efforts to recruit others. Charles Comiskey used his own team lawyer to represent Jackson, who openly worked against him. Landis used his name to promote the seriousness of his efforts to reestablish public confidence in baseball.
Landis is a controversial figure himself, but there is no denying that he cleaned up baseball. Along the way, some innocent bystanders got hurt, Shoeless Joe being the biggest one.
Joe Jackson would have been in the original class of the HOF, and he should be elected when his next turn comes around.
These people need to be put under the Hall of Fame cheaters, scammers and low lifers division of the Hall of Fame. The.CSLLD section. So we never forget.
“Pete Rose admitted on the record to having sexual relations with a teenage girl during his playing career. She said it began when she was 14 or 15, and he was in his 30s and a married father of two.”
In an interview with WCHE-AM of West Chester, Pennsylvania, two years ago, Dowd said former Rose associate Michael Bertolini “told us that not only did he run bets, but he ran young girls for him down in spring training, ages 12 to 14.” Dowd added: “Isn’t that lovely? So that’s statutory **** every time you do that.”
-Willie Weinbaum
Right…so even throwing out the gambling itself there is a character and integrity clause which you would think would at least give some pause to pete being rubber stamped in on stats alone given the laundry list of allegations against him
Yanks4life22
There’s no proof of that at all. People can say lots of things and make allegations that are not factual, but here you are posting it as fact.
I hope you’re never on a jury…because you haven’t got a clue. He said…she said…
I would do far worse to criminals than what the ‘law’ hands out to people that interfere with children.
By the way, what’s the age of consent in at least 34 states in the USA?
Fred…the fact you are asking what the age of consent is in at least 34 states should tell you that something shady was likely happening with very young women or why care about it ? How about this ..ask yourself regardless of consent age think about it as if it was your daughter involved..does that alter how you might view it..at all?
“Pete Rose admitted on the record to having sexual relations with a teenage girl during his playing career. She said it began when she was 14 or 15, and he was in his 30s and a married father of two.”
This is what he admitted to a federal grand jury in Cincinnati. This isn’t hearsay it’s fact. I’m quoting direct sources.
Damn your facts!!! **shakes fist**
Sadly, our society and its institutions can’t seem to decide the simplest of things with respect to right and wrong. It shouldn’t be that difficult but we elevate people to positions of power based on nothing but gut instinct. When you get down to it, we don’t really care what is decided with regard to baseball’s hall of fame.
If that is so, then provide links for what you call “direct sources”.
Getting literal with the concept of a “lifetime ban”…
But there never was a “lifetime ban”. It was a permanent ban.
FOR EVER.
Sandlot.
Who cares! The HOF isnt just for all time greats. Its popularity.
TIME TO CLOSE COMMENTS!
Pete Rose is one of the very best players of all time; betting on baseball doesn’t erase that. He should be in the hall of fame.
The betting didn’t change the fact he was an all-time great player. It did change his eligibility for HOF. He knew the consequences.
Pete Rose is one of the 200 best players to play baseball yes.
One question: Is there anybody here who thinks baseball would be as widely followed if a new generation wondered if the games were fixed, thrown or scripted like WWE rasslin’ because of players, mgrs, or umps betting on them?
Second question: Where would Pete Rose have been without baseball?
First question, Millions of people pay to watch that garbage, so I’m not sure, maybe they would. People love “reality” shows.
Second question, the same place he ended up, jail.
I agree that it certainly wouldn’t be “as widely followed.” I myself would probably stop caring.
Why can’t people understand that what Rose did is not relatable to all the transgressions by others used to defend him? His punishment was exactly what he deserved, a permanent ban, and he knew that would be the punishment if he was caught. His ban is not based on any of the other horrible things he may or may not have done. He did the one thing that would get him permanently banned, so his claim of how much he loved and respected the game rings hollow. He could have got his gambling fix without betting on baseball, but his arrogance won out over his intelligence.
Manfred, in trying to appease both sides, and maybe a convicted criminal as well, is sending a terrible message to today’s players. In an era where sports gambling is rampant, MLB should be more vigilant than ever in preventing players gambling or being paid to throw games.
Time to get rid of Maris’ asterisk…
That already happened in 1991.
Besides, it’s meaningless now that Maris doesn’t even hold the AL record (or PED-free record) anymore.
I think permanent ineligibility for the Hall of Fame is a good enough reason on its own why permanent ineligibility shouldn’t end at a player’s death.
Still, as long as the Era Committees refuse to elect the likes of Barry Bonds and Rogers Clemens, then Rose, Jackson, and Cicotte aren’t getting in, either. I have to wonder Manfred actually considered this as part of his reasoning for his decision.
Of course Manfred knows it’s unlikely Rose will be elected. His move is solely a public relations/political move so he can say he’s not the one standing in the way. It will be interesting to see how many on the committee cave in.
Pretty stupid. I’m sure Pete Rose’s bones now feel much better. He was punished far too long, vindictive and nasty it was.
Too bad. Pieces of banned garbage need to stay banned.
Kennesaw Mountain Landis, A. Bartlett Giamatti, and Faye Vincent are all turning over in their graves.
The Hall of Fame still has the character clause, at least for now.
These guys can stay in the museum at the Hall of Fame where they already are, but they don’t deserve plaques.
Only reason they did this is $$$. Now that the player has passed away, they can’t profit on the notoriety of being a member of the HoF, but MLB itself sure can…. Pretty pukey if you ask me.
I am excited about this because I want Shoeless Joe to get in. I would be perfectly happy to see Pete Rose get in after a period similar to Shoeless Joe has waited. He was not a good individual. I completely understand the argument that Ty Cobb was worse, but Rose still needs to be voted in by members of the HoF themselves.
So much for “permanent.’ If only we could permanently retire Manfred, who will be screwing the players and the fans in the next Owners Lockout.