Major League Baseball issued a statement on a landmark decision today. Commissioner Rob Manfred had decided that players on the permanently ineligible list will lose that status once they die. This means that players like Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are now off the permanently ineligible list, as well as 15 others.
“Commissioner Robert D. Manfred Jr. today issued a policy decision regarding the status of individuals who have passed away while on the permanently ineligible list,” the league’s press release says. “This issue has never been formally addressed by Major League Baseball, but an application filed by the family of Pete Rose has made it incumbent upon the Office of the Commissioner to reach a policy decision on this unprecedented issue in the modern era as Mr. Rose is the first person banned after the tenure of Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis to die while still on the ineligible list. Commissioner Manfred has concluded that MLB’s policy shall be that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual.
In a letter to Jeffrey M. Lenkov, the attorney for Mr. Rose, Commissioner Manfred wrote, ’In my view, a determination must be made regarding how the phrase ‘permanently ineligible’ should be interpreted in light of the purposes and policies behind Rule 21, which are to: (1) protect the game from individuals who pose a risk to the integrity of the sport by prohibiting the participation of such individuals; and (2) create a deterrent effect that reduces the likelihood of future violations by others. In my view, once an individual has passed away, the purposes of Rule 21 have been served. Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game. Moreover, it is hard to conceive of a penalty that has more deterrent effect than one that lasts a lifetime with no reprieve. Therefore, I have concluded that permanent ineligibility ends upon the passing of the disciplined individual, and Mr. Rose will be removed from the permanently ineligible list.’
Commissioner Manfred further wrote, ’While it is my preference not to disturb decisions made by prior Commissioners, Mr. Rose was not placed on the permanently ineligible list by Commissioner action but rather as the result of a 1989 settlement of potential litigation with the Commissioner’s Office. My decision today is consistent with Commissioner Giamatti’s expectations of that agreement.
’Commissioner Giamatti’s comments were completely reasonable given that, at the time, the Hall of Fame did not have a rule barring people on the permanently ineligible list from Hall of Fame consideration. In fact, Shoeless Joe Jackson was afforded the opportunity to be voted upon in 1936 and again in 1946.’
To establish clarity for the administration of the Major League Rules, the decision in this matter shall apply to individuals in the past or future who are posthumously on the permanently ineligible list. There are 17 deceased individuals disciplined since the founding of the Commissioner’s Office impacted by today’s announcement, including Eddie Cicotte, Happy Felsch, Chick Gandil, Joe Jackson, Fred McMullin, Swede Risberg, Buck Weaver and Lefty Williams; Joe Gedeon; Gene Paulette; Benny Kauff; Lee Magee; Phil Douglas; Cozy Dolan; Jimmy O’Connell; William Cox; and Pete Rose.”
Most baseball fans are well aware of the complexities of the Rose situation. He was one of the best players of all-time strictly in terms of on-field ability. He is the MLB all-time leader in hits with 4,256. He would have been a slam-dunk Hall-of-Famer but blocked his own path with his off-field behavior.
Rose was a player-manager with the Reds in 1984 and he continued serving as the skipper into the 1989 season, even though he stopped playing after 1986. During the 1989 campaign, an MLB investigation determined that Rose had bet on baseball, including bets on the Reds while he was managing. He only bet on the Reds to win and there’s no suggestion that he tried to fix games, but that will still a violation of MLB’s biggest rule.
Any player or coach who bets on a game involving his own team receives a lifetime ban, which Rose did indeed receive. In 1991, the Hall of Fame passed a rule that anyone with a lifetime ban would not be eligible to be inducted.
Rose passed away in September of 2024. Prior to that, he had longed pushed for his reinstatement without success but has now been removed from the list posthumously. It was reported in the offseason that the league was considering a petition on Rose’s behalf from various people, including Rose’s daughter Fawn.
Now that he has been removed from the ineligible list, Rose can be considered for the Hall of Fame. Bob Nightengale of USA Today relays a statement from the Hall stating that the individuals involved in today’s ruling will be under consideration as part of the 2027 deliberations. The Era Committee process works in a three-year rotating cycle. In one year, they consider players from the Classic Baseball Era, which includes those whose major contributions were prior to 1980. Then there’s the Contemporary Baseball Era, which is for players whose contributions were mostly after 1980, and then a year for managers/executives/umpires from the same era.
2024 was a “Classic Baseball Era” year, with the Hall selecting Dick Allen and Dave Parker for induction. 2025 will see the Contemporary Era get consideration, with the managers/executives/umpires getting their turn in 2026, followed by a return to the Classic Baseball Era in 2027.
That doesn’t mean Rose is a lock to get in at that time. Hall of Fame voters are instructed to consider a player’s integrity and character alongside his contributions on the field. In addition to Rose’s gambling, he has also been accused of having sexual relationships with underage girls during his playing days. Those developments emerged about a decade ago and ended Rose’s broadcasting career. ESPN provided details on the legalities of those issues in 2017 and on Rose’s comments the situation in 2022.
Apart from Rose, Jackson is the most notable name here. Most baseball fans are familiar with the “Black Sox” scandal, where Jackson and several other members of the White Sox were accused of intentionally losing the 1919 World Series in exchange for payment from a gambling syndicate. Commissioner Landis eventually gave lifetime bans to Jackson, Cicotte, Felsh, Gandil, McMullin, Risberg, Weaver and Williams.
The decision has been a part of baseball lore for more than a century now, becoming the subject of several books as well as the films Eight Men Out and Field of Dreams. Jackson was one of the top players in baseball at his peak but wasn’t able to play beyond his age-30 season due to the ban. His defenders point out that his performance during the World Series doesn’t align with someone trying to lose, as he hit .375/.394/.563 over the eight games in the best-of-nine series.
As referenced in today’s statement, Jackson wasn’t formally excluded from voting but he got just two votes in both 1936 and 1946, when the memory of the scandal was still somewhat fresh. It’s possible that the passage of time has led to a change in attitude from the baseball world, but his candidacy will surely be hotly debated in the years to come.
Many of the other players are mere footnotes in this decision. A handful of them were banned for gambling infractions before they had the chance to rack up the accolades necessary for Hall of Fame consideration. Back in March, the Hall of Fame announced adjustments to the Era Committee voting process. In order to be elected, a candidate must receive 12 of 16 votes. Any candidate receiving fewer than five votes will not be eligible for the next cycle three years later. If a candidate gets four or fewer votes on two separate occasions, they will be considered permanently ineligible for future consideration.
Photo courtesy of Sam Greene, Imagn Images.
Good
Good is right…
This may have been the most apolitical way to have made the ‘change’ in policy…
CNN MSNBC reported that the reinstatement came after Trump pressure Manfred because Rose supported Trump in interviews
I wonder how much money Manfred “ donated “ to the orange felon?
As opposed to the senile felon.
“How much money..orange felon”…Probably a fraction of what people like you spend on Hollywood celebrity and racist propaganda daily.
The orange felon’s MAWA agenda strikes again.
This has nothing to do with politics. Having said that I have no problem with this policy change nor with Rose or Jackson getting in the HOF.
When people serving life sentences die, they don’t throw them in a coffin and shove them back in their prison cell.
@randog – No, but that is kind of a neat idea. It might be easier if someone just sprinkled the ashes in there instead however.
@Carver LMAO!
Dumb as a rock
Rose supporting Trump doesn’t mean Manfred did.
In fact, considering Manfred is a graduate of two Ivy League schools (Cornell and Harvard), it’s highly doubtful.
dpsmith22: Trump probably is senile, now that you mention it.
@barkerboy Are you trying to respond to somebody? Maybe tossing around petty insults is not for you.
Would you like a tissue?
@surfer If you’re replying to me no I don’t need a tissue. I’m just allergic to lunatic libs.
Randog650: As opposed to maniac MAGAts?
@ blue Maniacs? Please seek help. I don’t like politicians as I’ve plainly stated. I can see the BS from a mile away lunatic libs throw out there. Those people are nuts.
You’re suppose to hit other people over the head with the gee tar el kabong. Not yourself. Seems like I’m too late to remind you of that fact. Brain damage has already set in for El Kabong
Not “opposed to” when the orange felon and senile felon are the same person.
Doesn’t like politics but refers to an entire party with an intended insult. Yeah, really believable that you don’t have an agenda there, buddy lol
CNN & MSNBC?
I’m not sure I’d consider those trustworthy news sources….
Let me guess. Breitbart and Truth Social. Right, Cletus?
I’m not aware of what Truth Social is, honestly. I don’t read Breitbart. I take news from a variety of sources (mostly independent and fact-checking), and determine my opinion.
But the reference to “Cletus,” thereby implying I’m an ignorant southerner, tells me a lot. Regardless, do you disagree with my statement? Or are you just committed to hardcore Leftism and leave no room for genuine conversation? Neither of those networks are reliable, and they e repeatedly proven that.
I don’t treat politics like a team. Oftentimes it’s like choosing to support the Rockies or the Pirates – both suck.
How convenient. You’re probably not “aware” of MAWA either.
@YankeeClip:
guides.library.harvard.edu/newsleans/thechart
There are two main measures when it comes to media sources – bias and credibility. This is one of the best tools out there that tracks things, but there are others as well (Allsides is one). Enjoy.
So, I explain my position and you continue to attack it by calling me a liar? Prove your position. What is Truth Social? And what the hell is MAWA?
Thank you, Carver! I’ll certainly check that out.
“You’re probably not aware of MAWA”…@El Kabong…People who are afraid to let other people address them directly and yet challenge others are the height of arrogance and cowardice.
You come off like the spoiled, rich kid who talks big, but hides behind his security guard and butler on the other side of a fence.
Wait -he has a security guard AND a butler? Elon, is that you?
“Elon”..No. His name is actually “El Kabong”, but thanks anyway.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. That is pretty much every far left whack job who gets on an MLB website and spews their political agenda.
@yc
better get outta here with that sound logic, also you forgot the other source of trustworthy news, twitter and facebook.
Pete “Diddy” Rose, an underage girl? Diddy? Yes, he did.
Definition of “permanent”:
lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely.
You still believe anything CNN or MSNBC says?
@Bham – Only the mindless utilize that as an argument.
There is, and always has been, a certain amount of bias and credibility concerns with all forms of the media. However, what y’all now call legacy media is actually what has represented true journalism for a long time. Real journalism has a strict process of fact-checking and review at its core, even if it is flawed at times…after all, we are all human.
The outcry from your side is that nothing is real from that which you don’t like, while you swallow every bit of garbage that is spoon-fed to you by FB and twitter accounts, nonsense “news” sites, moronic podcasters and anyone else that is willing to spew the vitriol that y’all seem to enjoy so much.
Rose r*ped a 15-year-old
A little too late don’t you think?
No….not too late.
Not at all.
If Pete Rose is elected posthumously, how many HOFers will skip the ceremonies? Hooefully, he never gets in as he only wanted inclusion for the monetary benefits. His accomplishments are already part of the HOF but he himself should not get a bust to be next to others like Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench.
It’s a museum, not a cathedral.
My line is “Did they hurt the integrity of the game”?
I’m not asking them to be saints.
Gaylord Perry wrote a book on ball doctoring.
@Halofan
Yes he did.
If the people directly involved in the outcome of any game, either a player, manager, coach, umpire, bet on a game they challenge the integrity and legitimacy of the sport. If the sport is not legitimate why would it exist?
“If you can’t trust a fix, what *can* you trust?” — Giovanni “Johnny Casper” Gasparo (“Miller’s Crossing”)
youtube.com/watch?v=sXQ940YSD2A
If (allegedly) throwing a World Series or betting on games you participate in is not hurting the integrity of the game in your book, tear up your book.
An all-time great, Gaylord was fun. That’s why he’s in.
All of a sudden my good friend who played on the Salt Lake Trappers as a never used backup when they won 29 in a row and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame for that accomplishment cannot brag about being in the Hall of Fame while Pete Rose is not.
Lifetime stats for Salt Lake: 0 for 3 3k
In the Baseball Hall of Fame.
What did I say to contradict that? Just curious.
I adamantly opposed Rose in the HOF while he was alive. However, he has served his “lifetime ban” and now belongs along side the other greats of the game.
It wasn’t a lifetime ban, was it? Didn’t he himself agree to a permanent ban?
Rose – May his memory live in infamy.
look at the big morals on this guy
Why because he bet a little money? Same people who don’t want Pete want Steroid Bonds in the hall what a joke.
Some people who don’t want the steroid Bond in the Hall want Pete in. What a joke.
There is no excuse for Bonds ands Clemens not to be in the hall.
@Mets We’re still having to explain this in 2025? You can’t put steroid users in because it’s disingenuous to the clean numbers. You have no idea how many home runs Albert Pujols or Aaron Judge or even Hank Aaron would hit in their careers if they used. To say putting filthy numbers next to clean numbers is unfair is an understatement. I propose a hall of cheaters for those of you who like crying about Rocket and Bonds not being in. You wanna argue that steroids saved baseball fine no debate. Unfortunately your nostalgia of the good ol days is not reason enough to let them in.
Sorry I respectfully disagree with you. He is clearly one of the GOATS of all time in baseball and he deserves to be in on accomplishments no matter what he did off the field. Plus he never threw games or bet on his team to lose. There are many murderers who have served less time than Rose did while he was alive.
Pete Rose allegedly committed statutory rap-e. That allegation needs a thorough vetting as part of any HOF consideration.
By that mark, then anyone that committed a crime while in MLB should be banned?
Yes
His reply to questions about said allegations, “that was 55 years ago, babe”. Rose is a pos. I’m ok with Shoeless Joe
Now you are equating character of a person (from a different era) with skill on the playing field. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Allegedly. Of course, he’s not here to defend himself, so the investigation would be incomplete.
The current President was accused of sexual assault and he’s not banned from anything
Spare me your self righteousness
because accused is just that, accused.
The President was *convicted* of sexual assault, not simply accused. His supporters are amoral, like Rose fans.
You misspelled misspelled. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
He wasn’t convicted of anything. Why make crap up or show how uneducated you are. Convictions are in criminal courts and not lawsuits. I think most people are well beyond the fake propaganda. Maybe it’s time to grow up.
@METS – Humanity lives and runs on mythology; it is just that we are now in a particularly perverse / perverted cycle of it with the clown con and his minions.
And you thought that was unintentional? How delightful.
I’ve been accused of lots of things I didn’t do. Just like many other people. DNA has freed many people imprisoned for crimes they didn’t commit.
As far as E. Jean Carrol is concerned she is from the same town I am. I don’t believe her story at all. This was a civil suit she brought decades after the alleged act because a criminal trial could not be brought. Not a Trump guy (or any other politician), but common sense says if this happened you’d think she’d gone to the police right away.
Your common sense is not serving you well: the majority of similar incidents go unreported due to any number of factors, none of which are exculpatory of the men involved.
It’s not really an open question whether Pete Rose was a pedophile and rapist: his defense about his 14-year-old girlfriend was that he thought she was 16.
@ primitive Appropriate name. You’ve done nothing to diminish my point. Criminal liability is far different than a civil complaint. This amounts to nothing more than she said/he said. There is zero proof this actually happened as she alleges.
Dude. Trump cheated on all of his wives. He admitted to sexual assault on Howard Stern. He’s a sewer rat. Not too many lines to cross from sexual assault to something more.
@window You’re mistaken. You’ve assumed I like any politician and that is far from the truth. I don’t give a crap about them but I know BS when I see it.
Trump admitted to coming on to Stern??? Unless you have proof of that I’d encourage you to seek a qualified mental health professional. People cheat, been going on for hundreds of years. Nothing new there. No one said Trump was a choir boy.
Nope, right on time.
You mispled “soon”.
They just figured this out?
It is Manfred and Sons…. Can’t expect too much.
HOF next class for them all. Apologies needed to all families. Saying that the only way to escape ineligibility is through death is quite wild to me
Not to me. Being “enshrined” into the Hall of Fame is the greatest honor baseball can bestow on a player.
They have disqualified themselves from being able to participate in that honor.
what about shoeless Joe? no evidence he did anything wrong so should he still not get in?
Shoeless Joe knew about the fix and didn’t rat on his teammates.
I’m pretty sure this entire country’s legal system is choosing to ignore or allow evidence based on how the jurisdiction feels about the suspect’s demographics.
So? If he ratted, the Chicago mob probably would have killed him and his family.
By that logic, Jose altuve should be banned from baseball right?
Altuve knew about the trashcan and didn’t rat on his teammates.
By your logic…who cares if a world series is thrown?!
Altuve didn’t know he just shy
💯
Read his grand jury testimony. He knew exactly what he did.
And if any of them are inducted now, they technically still aren’t participating in that honor.
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, but in this case the punishment for someone like Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe is that they aren’t alive to witness themselves being elected or inducted.
Why are apologies needed?
“Are apologies needed”…Because many people celebrate cheating and dysfunction and think you should “apologize” for calling it out in the first place.
I have no issues with people wanting Rose in the HOF. Pete knew the rules and knew the consequences.. why is an apology necessary for his misdeeds?
Apologize to the families of people who broke the rules?
The commissioner not does MLB have a day in who gets in the HOF. This is entirely up to the voting members.
True, but he has a say in the rules for admission, which might as well be a vote.
He does not. The HOF made their own rule to exclude anyone that was banned.
Counter arguement – it was called a “lifetime ban” and his “lifetime” has come to an end. Therefore, so should the ban. Pete Rose unequivocably belongs in Cooperstown if the HOF is to be the truest measure of statistically greatness.
That’s a valid point. It has been always called a “lifetime ban”. His lifetime is over, so therefore, the sentence is technically served.
Just because he is on the ballot doesn’t mean he has to be voted for (i.e. Bonds, Clemons).
I just went thru & put all the deranged, lunatics posting negative comments on the All Time Hit King on the “Permanently Ineligible List” & man did that feel good!! Ahahahahahahahahahaha!!
“the only way to escape ineligibility is through death is quite wild to me”
It sounds like you don’t understand the term lifetime ban… Only person to screw Pete Rose was Pete Rose. Sorta fitting he’s not around to see his hof induction… Karma works that way I guess
So they changed the rule to accommodate a dead pedophile?
Rather, me thinks, to satisfy The Dictator. But this ruling, while coming way too late, will allow Rose into The Hall (where he belongs) and gives hope that Clemens, Bonds and others will someday get their due.
Bonds and Clemens are both eligible for the HOF.
“Bonds and Clemens”…And so let’s keep an eye on their health and put both Bonds/Clemens in the steroids wing of the MLB HOF posthumously.
Judge Landis and Ty Cobb were known racists. How many more, in addition to drunks, wife beaters, wife cheaters, drug abusers and downright mean people in the Hall with them? I’m sure there are other guys who took advantage of underage girls in that bunch too, especially earlier in the 20th century when it was more common to marry young girls.
My point is, there are not a lot of choir boys in there.
Liars and cheaters belong in the hall of shame.
That’s more to my point. Is it a museum or a cathedral? If it’s a museum, then all aspects both positive and negative need to be included to tell the story. It’s about what happened on the field, not off of it.
If it’s a cathedral, then keep them out as only the worthy belong and integrity is paramount. There are solid points to both ends.
A Lof people were racist back then. MLB was racist.
As far as Al Stump’s fake account of “The last Days of Ty Cobb”, the only people who put any weight in that story are ignorant.
Halo11Fan – Agree. People need to look at the context of the time and not view things in retrospect. It’s no different than comparing eras of the game. It’s not Babe Ruth’s fault he didn’t play with Aaron Judge. You have to hold people in the context of their time, be it on or off the field.
Smoking is no longer permitted in an MLB facility. Do we look negtively on guys in the past that did? I mean, where does it end.
“A lot of people were racist back then”…Back then? How about even more “racists” today than ever before?
So many “racists” that some people use identity politics that literally campaigns, labels others and politics on the color of everyone’s skin.
It’s not that there is more, it’s just more visible given the way news is worldly now. That and the increase in population allowing for more.
It very well still exists, but not to the violent nature that it once did, but that is a topic for another forum and as far as I care to venture off the article topic.
Agreed Halofan. It’s like how so many are thinking Shoeless Joe is innocent because of 8 Men Out. That book has been just as discredited as Al Stump’s hit job on Cobb.
I agree completely. I highly recommend Gene Carney’s “Burying the Black Sox” which approached the team and its players in a much more evenhanded way than “Eight Men Out”.
I haven’t read that one but I will. Scandal on the South Side was also very good.
I understand your point, but I take every opportunity to correct people about Ty Cobb. He was not a racist, not in his time or now. He was an aggressive player with temper issues, but not racist.
Clintc…could not agree more. Just finished reading the book by Charles Leerhsen.
The man points out a lot about Cobb that was genuinely good.
The sharpening of spikes was a fabrication.
Solid take brother.
There is no reason why they can’t have a steroid wing of the HOF. It’s a part of baseball history whether people like it or not. Sosa, McGwire, Palmero, Bonds, and Clemons should all be in.
You even know what a Dictator actually is? Doubtful.
Rose and the 1919 White Sox commited the number one crime in the eyes of baseball. Gambling. They knew it going in, and did it anyway. You don’t glorify people in the shrine, for doing the one quickest thing that could destroy the game.
Agreed. But now they have completed their lifetime ban.
the only person from the 1919 white Sox who is worthy is shoeless Joe and did he actually do anything wrong?
Eddie Cicotte would likely be in the HOF if not for the ban.
Ha ha. I do. A ruler who has total power. A person who behaves in an autocratic way.
Sound familiar ?
Just a hint. It’s why you aren’t viewed as the leader of the free world anymore.
Blacksox, not Whitesox.
Chasing Time was viewed as the ruler of the free world but no longer is?
Funny that a non-American is trashing America.
You do know MLB and every other major sports league is in bed with online gambling sites now? Yiu always hear about the betting odds or betting line on pregame shows now. So is it destroying the game now or are you just being hypocritical?
Dude. It’s the most common thing in the world right now.
What dictator?
The latest one. The reason the free world is ridiculing America and Americans ad nauseam. Seriously, you haven’t noticed ?
@ foppert I’ve noticed all the billions of dollars other countries are flocking to invest here. Other countries do that for dictators?
Ha ha Have you. I’d have to look at the specifics of all this “flocking”.
The greatest geopolitical shift since WW2 has occurred and countries aren’t going back to you as the leader of democracy.
It’s over. Is there a world leader of a democratic country who hasn’t stated that ? I don’t think there is. Sure, there will be civility and some business as usual, but politically, you have been abandoned. You are on your own. Chain saw wielding Argentinians excluded.
@ foppert Yes, I have seen countries pledge billions in investing here in this country. Maybe get off Fackbook and actually pay attention. The rest of what you said is lunacy. Not even sure if that is actually English.
I’m not on Facebook !
Ok. Ignore the reality of your new situation if you wish. Our countries have been besties for a long time. 80years you have been saying “jump” and we have immediately been responding with “how high”. No problem. We get the “Americas b@tch” insult as a result, but that’s fine. We owed you and we respected your ideals.
That’s over. You ended it. Outside of some first class humorous content, there is no joy in it for us. Your dictator has put us in a very difficult position. We wish it was like before, but it’s not, so we move on. No animosity, no hatred, just the reality.
“A dead pedophile”..Since when are “dead” people allowed here on MLBTRADERUMORS.COM And yet here you are.
In Ohio, the Age of consent is 16. That may make him a bad guy, but a pedophile is a perversion of the facts.
When you have to exaggerate the truth, maybe your point isn’t worth making.
I mean if you wanna believe the guy who claimed for years that he didn’t bet on baseball is telling the truth about waiting til she was 16, more power to you.
also even if she was past the age of consent he was in his 30s, so I think the point is very well worth making.
When someone is looking for a payday, I just don’t take a he said, she said seriously.
Too many reasons for both sides to lie.
The word Pedophile in common usage means interested in young people under the age of consent, even if the official psychiatric definition is restricted to prepubescent kids. So it’s not necessarily being misused here, unlike how Rose allegedly treated the girl.
Just because “common usage” is used incorrectly a lot doesn’t make it right. If a black cat walks by your house every day and you say it is white every time you see it, it doesn’t become a white cat after a while.
They changed the rule to accommodate fans which really is what it’s all about.
This decision by Manfred is a bit of a gamble…
….Pete Rose took the under.
It’s funny when people throw around words like pedophile when they don’t even know what they mean. A pedophile is an individual that has sexual relations with a PREPUBESCENT child. You are not a pedophile if you sleep with a 16 year old. You are creepy and definitely not invited to my home, but you are not a pedophile.
Not a pedophile to sleep with 16?? Sure, if you are 16. Or 17. Or maybe 18. But if you are almost 30 and married with kids, yes 16 (actually rumored to be 14-15 when they started relationship) is a pedophile piece of trash. And to offer a bag of signed baseballs to settle the matter while saying “forget about what happened 30 years ago” is absolutely disgusting. Google the ESPN article
Aug 7 2022 ESPN article “It was 55 rears ago, babe” is the article to google
And once again, you have no clue what that word actually means.
Dude, if you want to argue that a 30 year old married man isn’t a pedophile for a years long relationship with a 15 year old GIRL, you need to join the ACLU or something. Perhaps by legal minutiae he might miss being officially a verified by law pedophile, but he is a pedophile in the socially accepted definition of a piece of trash that sleeps with children. The fact that you want to argue the technicality says a lot about your character. Or lack of.
The actual definition of the word is not legal minutiae. And honestly, I really don’t don’t care what you think of my character because your judgment is obviously tainted and frankly I don’t have any respect for it at all. And don’t call me dude. I am not your drinking buddy.
Whatever, dude. I’ve seen you post some bad takes but this is without a doubt your worst. I hope your daughter gets to meet a man like the one you are defending. Soon.
Well since my daughter has yet to be conceived, it would have to be at least 13-14 years at a minimum before she passes puberty. So soon is not really an option. But thank you for the well wishes. You are doing a great job of showing your own character in this discussion. But luckily you are not as memorable as me, so I will likely forget about you completely very soon while I will live rent free in your head for a while Have a nice day sir.
Wishing ill on someone’s daughter is always a losing position.
Who wished ill? I said I hope his daughter meets someone just like someone he clearly admires. I’m wishing him well.
Yeah, right.
Hebephilia or possibly Ephebophilia
Michael Jackson?
Great. Pete and Shoeless both need to be inducted into the Hall.
Shoeless Joe from Hanibal, MO …will not be getting inducted
Too soon.
It’s hard to be overly joyous on this news. As Rose said, MLB would lift his ban once he passed away
I think it’s the right thing to do. Just too late.
To be fair, he’s the only one that put himself in the situation.
Yes, I understand your point. If he never got in, I’d get that too.
It does seem a little sketchy for this to be happening so soon after the man’s death. To me, the optics of the situation is that the HOF wants to profit off his name without him around to share any of the glory.
Other than the Rose family, is anyone who wasn’t going to visit the HOF going to flock there if Pete gets in? I don’t see the profit influx for the HOF if he gets in.
It’s because Manfred has a bunch of signed Pete Rose cards and wants them to be worth something…. Sly little devil.
Rose’s body to Boston to play 1B???
Better range than Devers…
Pete Cadaver over Rafael Devers?
Begs the question: For Rose’s induction ceremony, are they going to go full Weekend At Bernie’s?
Or a pile of torn up betting slips.
At least Rose’s body won’t refuse to play 1B
Very true. It’s a true utility corpse.
It would have to be veterans committee the next time that era is considered, which I think is two years.
I don’t think so as he was never eligible. I think he goes on the next ballot for the next ten years assuming he gets 5% or more each time. I’d love it if on his first year, he was then removed.
Correction: I heard it will be the veterans’ committee in 28.
If you’re going to make them eligible for the Hall, why not do it while they’re alive? Obviously too late for Shoeless Joe, but they could have made a better decision while Pete Rose was still alive. Sheesh.
Isn’t the whole point of “permanently ineligible” that they aren’t able to enjoy any such accolades while they’re alive?
Permanent is permanent. Why would it end at death? If you’re not making it truly permanent, at least let the player die knowing he made it in.
Isn’t the whole point of “permanently ineligible” that they aren’t able to enjoy any such accolades while they’re alive?
Permanent is supposed to mean forever…
It is forever from the point of view of the relevant players.
Permanently ineligible to participate in MLB. Hall of Fame is it’s own entity and a completely separate issue. Commissioner has no say over anything at the Hall.
Except ruling who is eligible and who isn’t. That’s quite a say.
The article literally says that being termed permanently ineligible is only in relation to the league and that the Hall has already had the option to vote on Shoeless Joe twice.
the Hall of Fame did not have a rule barring people on the permanently ineligible list from Hall of Fame consideration. In fact, Shoeless Joe Jackson was afforded the opportunity to be voted upon in 1936 and again in 1946.’
The Hall currently bans anyone on the permanently ineligible list. That’s why Manfred is making this decision.
Ignoring the reasoning here, I think this is a fair move.
Shoeless Joe for the Hall.
👆 is the correct framing.
This sounds dark.
So MLB is saying that DEATH is enough to satisfy the punishment of being banned from the league? Talk about a God complex…
It’s a microcosm of world philosophy in application today… compromise.
The timing was excellent. Pete Rose just did his patented hard slide, to break up a double play in heaven.
If there is a heaven, Pete Rose is sure as hell not there.
“Sure as hell”…And you know this because?
Shoeless Joe can finally come in from the cornfield.
Cool.
In life, Pete Rose was a bad guy. As a manager, Pete Rose did some things that hurt his team and the integrity of his sport,
Joe Jackson was a good guy, as a player, he did things that hurt the game and the integrity of his sport.
IMO, they have been punished enough.
His former teams can do hold ceremonies with Rose using an AI holograph, welcoming him back to the organization’s good graces.
I doubt Rose and Joe Jackson get in though.
Imagine how many annoying comments could have been prevented if it had been called a lifetime ban.
Who’s lifetime? The players or the hall of fames?
Pete is definitley looking up at us with a smile from the afterlife at this!
Hope he’s enjoying the “warm” weather there too!
I see what you did there!
How fitting, they wait until Rose dies so he can’t enjoy it. They never wanted him to see it while alive. Well done MLB. This is a shame Rob Manfred.
That’s the entire point.
Yes everyone knows the point they made, so excellent observation there. The point made is that they waited too long. MLB has been more lenient with steroid users. As a manager he did something awful. As a player he deserved to see his day in cooperstown. MLB robbed everyone of a celebration of MLB’s all time hits leader, a record no one will ever touch.
“How fitting..they wait”…You cam here to MLBTRADERUMORS.COM just to declare publicly that missed the entire point of Rose’s suspension in the first place?
Did you forget why Rose had a lifetime ban in the first place?? Granted he told lies and denied it but ultimately came clean and admitted everything his ban was totally justified
Excellent response lol. Rose as a manager absolutely should have been banned. But as a player and owning a record that NO ONE will ever even come close to he deserved to have his day. He will never get that, MLB has been harder on him than steroid users.
Well..technically ichiro has more hits if you combine mlb and npb stats..so someone thinks they broke his record just sayin and to my knowledge Ichiro never gambled on baseball either..how about that.
How about this. Japanese stats do not carry over.
MLB players who get cut go to NPB. Should all of Pete’s lifetime hits including little league count too?
I assume this means those guys can now be included in video games like The Show?
No, they would still need to acquire their name & likeness rights from their estate.
Can’t wait to put a bet on ESPN Bet or FanDuel on if Pete or Joe will get in!
Comment of the day!
That is very funny.
The White Sox player’s heavily favored but history says the Reds guy takes it in 8.
Terrible decision. I would not be surprised if this has an orange tinge to it. Would make sense though.
What’s it like to have one man you’ve never met controlling every aspect of your life?
He is literally trying to control every aspect of everyone’s lives no matter what the constitution says. Only. Chance any one of us has is if we buy some meme coins of his.
Maybe humpty trumpty will give Pete’s acceptance speech.
I guess they will have to make a Field of Dreams 2 once Shoeless Joe is elected.
Lay off the religion part of where rose went, unless you have read the Bible and know if his deal.
It was given that this would have happened.. if you got problems with pedophile could be in the Hof than racist players in hof should be kick out, cheaters too so pudge, Piazza, others who used green ones and cheat with substance on there body, gloves should be kick out too..
I read your post a couple of times. Then I had Grok summarize it. That kinda helped!
Overall Interpretation:
The person is frustrated with what they see as hypocritical or uneven standards in the Baseball Hall of Fame. They defend Pete Rose, arguing that his exclusion (due to gambling and possibly personal controversies) is unfair when other HOF members have committed serious wrongs, like racism (e.g., Ty Cobb), cheating via substances (e.g., Rodriguez, Piazza), or other rule-breaking. They challenge critics to avoid religious moralizing about Rose unless they’re biblically informed and demand consistency: either forgive Rose or eject other flawed inductees. The tone is defensive, scattered, and reflective of broader debates about Rose’s legacy and HOF criteria.
Ty Cobb was almost surely less racist than your average Southerner of his generation. His dad was an abolitionist. Ty Cobb was for integration. You are repeating known lies
To view the Pete Rose exhibit you have to give an additional $20, cash only, and point out a woman of loose morals.
Canonization
Manfred’s a weak dude not a surprise he gives into the tub of lard sitting in the white house.
Does it piss you off that people like you are becoming few and far between?
Trump’s approval rating is at an all-time low…
@80raw – And yet the utter mystery is that it is above zero at any point in time.
So, not permanent.
This smells of Big Mac farts and orange facial hydrating concealer.
That’s fine. He served his punishment now enshrine him so his in game accomplishments can be immortalized
They are in the museum.
Manfred is a such a corrupt person makes sense he would cave to pressure the most corrupt stupidest President since Ulysses Grant. Thankfully ahole Rose is dead so that pathetic loser won’t benefit.
As a principled stance, you can respect it despite disagreeing it should be applied in the first place, case by case. However, walking back a principle stance after death is pathetic. It suggests it was never about the principle. Had the MLB forgiven Rose, this wouldn’t be the case, the principle could stand. But now we know it was about pettiness and that is really insulting that they waited until after his death. It’s cowardly not to forgive someone when they are alive and wait until they’re gone.
“Obviously, a person no longer with us cannot represent a threat to the integrity of the game”. Manfred
I disagree, vehemently, with this assertion. Electing a deceased individual to the HoF who had been banned for cause, will undermine the integrity of the game.
Obviously!!! He had the audacity to say obviously while making such a stupid statement
I’m having a hard time with this one. As political as it can get–no coherent logic. You want to un-ban Rose, go ahead, give your reasons, and move on. But an entire class, throwing with WS? Come on. A reflection on the times, I suppose, with no accountability.
About time this has been corrected.
Absolutely sickening that mlb waited for rose to die, and only then re instate him
All time hit king
Never saw the hall
They intentionally did not want him to have that honor while alive
What a Disgrace!!!!! Absolutely disgusting
Rip pete
Pete knew the rules, he knew what the punishment was.. and he broke the rules anyway. Why is anyone else but Pete Rose to blame?
pete knew what rule??? what punishment????
“the Hall of Fame did not have a rule barring people on the permanently ineligible list from Hall of Fame consideration.”
this isnt even about pete’s gambling. thats not the point!!!! the point is mlb intentionally waited, just to spite him. not bc of “rules” but bc they wanted to HURT pete. and mlb knew the worst way to hurt him is to keep him away from the HOF. for years i knew it in my heart, the day pete rose dies, is the day pete rose is a HOFer
He accepted the punishment in return of MLB stopping their investigation
He should still be banned..it should beem changed to simply remove the word lifetime pete was a cheater and a liar
he bet on his OWN team to win
he never bet against his team, he never took roids, he never cheated the game as a player. the astros cheated on the field as players and won a WS and didnt get a slap on the wrist!!!!! not 1 single game suspended or banned or ANYTHING.
mlb iNTENTIONALLY waited and waited for rose to die. they would never ever let him see his plaque or let him give a speech. its absurd and disgusting beyond words
Oh you know he never bet on his pwn team??? Wow. And you know that how? Because you believe serial liar Pete Rose?
Even if that is true betting on your own team is clearly against the most widely known rule. It also doesn’t mean it can’t negatively impact your team as you make a decision to win today’s game that you put a big bet on that might lead you to overuse a player, especially a pitcher, trying to cash in that could hurt the team tomorrow or injure the player. There is no defense for the damage any gambling inside the game can do to the game.
@chandler – You sound like one of those dudes that spend a lot of time and effort on here championing the Trevor Bauer cause as well.
The Pete Rose case is complex, as he was undeniably Hall-worthy on the baseball field. But he was also an incredible a-hole in many ways so it is hard to summon much sympathy for him in the larger sense.
A lot of HOFers were not pleasant people to be around, They are in for what they did as players, not because they were saints.
Pete is a scum bag. Didn’t deserve to see it.
Oh and he r*ped a kid
Contemporary Era Committee votes in December at this year’s winter meetings on Players from 1980-present and not again until 2028. Would be surprised to see any real discussion on Rose until then.
Manfred loves gambling he is happy when the fans, mangers, and players also gamble.
Fans gambling is good for interest in all sports. Players or managers or umpires or anyone who could impact the results of games gambling is really bad for the sport. That’s why the rule has been very clear and in place for so long, everyone knows it.
how long do you have to be dead? can someone banned pull a flatliners and get reinstated?
Let’s test it on Tucupita Marcano…
I have my personal feelings about this but I’ll try to keep them personal.
HOWEVER, when MLB actively courts FanDuel and other gambling enterprises in today’s game, it can hardly parse the “right” and “wrong” of betting on the game. All morality about the Game is suspect when you issue a soft boundary to players not to personally bet on games.
It’s kind of a “nose of the camel in the tent” kind of thing.
Personally, I am not a fan of sports betting. However, after States legalized it, there is not much a league can do. They can’t stop a company from taking bets on their games. If they takr a moral stance and completely distance themselves from gambling, they risk irrelevance compared to other sports.
I’m not sure why you say “soft boundary”.. players, club officials, umpires, etc. are all strictly prohibited from betting on baseball and MLB and other leagues appear to be enforcing.
They definitely didn’t do anything to stop the legalization of sports betting by opposing it publicly or run a campaign against it. They actually got into bed with these groups. They’ve even supported one of their worst owners to move into the Den of the Gamblers.
Principles are absolutes. Therefore, any exceptions made to break the principle, it is no longer a principle. It is a relative morality that can move whenever someone sees fit. Hence why they’ve given up banning these figures. The men in control of the game aren’t principled men, they do what they want and justify how they can.
In fairness, MLB actively opposed the legalization of sports wagering in New Jersey. Once that ship sailed, then the MLB saw dollar signs and dove into bed with Fan Duel, etc.
So they lost once, so it’s fair they join the other side? A principle is an absolute so you can’t give up regardless. It just points out they are just using this to “keep” the public perception of the games are fair. They may be but why should I believe them if they don’t follow what they say are their principles.
@Cleveland – I admire the quaintness of your argument, attempting to stand on principle in the age of Strump and his merry band of bootlickers and cadaver dogs.
Courting betting sites for fans who can’t impact the game and banning people who can impact the game for betting seems like a loose correlation to me.
MLB has reinstated these guys, but isn’t the HOF a separate entity? I guess reinstatement is the first step.
Right on!!!
The voters won’t vote Rose into the Hall in 2026. Because writers have to make statements – see Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, . . .
But maybe Joe Jackson in 2026 due to a movie.
And Rose in time.
Its not up to writers only his peers…
An era of zero conviction?
Ugh, no. This clown lied about betting on baseball and then spent 1987 betting on his own team’s games. Win or lose, that’s a downright degenerate who has no place in the Hall much less being reinstated.
LOU: “Hey Tommy, the Reds are playing the Cards tonight. Did Pete bet on his team?
TOMMY: “No, he held off”
LOU: “Give me 5 grand on the Cards please Tommy”
This is what happens when you ONLY bet on your team. I’m so tired of the “he only bet on his team to win” argument. The rules are EXTREMELY clear. Always have been. MLB players are NOT ALLOWED TO BET ON BASEBALL.
Pete Rose was his own worst enemy. He lied for 20 years and only changed his story to promote a book. He held signings down the street from the Hall of Fame for years.
Had he come out right away and said yep, I did it, went on Oprah and all the talk shows expressing remorse, it might have been different. As you may recall, it was said he could apply for reinstatement. He may never have worked in the game again, and I don’t think he should have, but the Hall of Fame (as a player) in his lifetime could have been a possibility.
After all, America is a forgiving society. People voted Richard Nixon into president the second time, and voted Trump in again after he butchered dealing with Covid. People are pushing for the Menendez brothers to get out of jail, for crying out loud.
But Pete did none of that and paid the price. Not to mention a lot of other things here and there that didn’t endearment him to the baseball establishment despite former teammates like Joe Morgan and Mike Schmidt trying to help him. That’s squarely on Pete Rose.
That’s pretty much the real story over the years. A sad but true tale all the way around. Sadder still is how baseball were hypocrites getting in bed with gamblers and continuing this tale of no betting on baseball that has been a rule for 100 years.
@ThisOneBTTR: – In the main, I agree with you on Pete (and I loved him as a kid and during his Phillies tenure – we all thought Charlie Hustle was pretty terrific). But he was an incredibly flawed and not very bright human being that was filled with arrogance and entitlement and thought that he was not accountable for his actions. Does this set of characteristics sound familiar?
You mention the current “prez” being voted back in despite fumbling Covid. And yet neglect that we also forgave him fomenting an insurrection, lying about it and then making sure that he pardoned all of those “fine folks”, which is merely the biggest crime of his many, many other concerns.
I find it hard to equate “forgiveness” to those that are utterly blind to the clown conman – it is sheer, willful ignorance.
rose was addicted to gambling. mantle was addicted to alcohol. there is no evidence that rose’s addiction impacted his performance whereas mantle admitted to playing while hungover. meanwhile, i have to watch 50 draft king promos a second and all of them have a ludicrous “know someone with a gambling problem?” disclaimer. it’s a joke that rose wasn’t inducted in his lifetime
Pete Rose was Wander Franco before Wander Franco was Wander Franco. Should we overlook that?
Pete Rose can rot in hell.
mariano rivera is being accused of much worse. should he be removed from the hall? how about kirby puckett?
Yes to both. This should not be hard.
i respect your consistency
As do I.
Trying to blame Rose’s behavior on a disease is pathetic. Plenty of things he couldve bet on! Mantle wasnt taking a flask out on the field
gambling addiction is as much a disease as alcoholism. not excusing the behavior just stating a fact
I see a very thin line here between “forgiving” and “just plain stupid”. Nice try though.
If Rose is okay then the Black Sox never happened, right? Dead gamblers are okay, but live ones arent? Explain the logic, please.
Well Roberto Alomar, we wish you a long, happy, healthy life ‘out of the HOF’…
It’s not like they killed anyone. Aren’t we supposed to forgive? What a joke. Rose should have been in years ago.
Just r*ped a 15-year-old. Forgiveness usually requires remorse
Gutless decision.
Even more Proof that Rob Manfred should have never been Bud Selig’s successor because Pete Rose SHOULD NEVER Be put in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Once again Rob Manfred proves he has ZERO Respect for the Game.
Pete Rose bet on the Game of Baseball & He bet on his Own Team & He never fully admitted his wrong doings.
This is one of the Biggest Rob Manfred Screw Ups
It’s not up to Manfred to enshrine him. The HOF ERA Committee will vote and make the final decision and they’re not going to be easily influenced by politics.
Rose did eventually confess to betting on baseball; he wrote a book about it.
Rose Never did admit to betting on his Own Team which we know that he did & as long as Rose was on the Banned List he was not Eligible for the Hall of Fame so yes Rose’s Hall of Fame Eligibility was in the Hands of Rob Manfred
He did in “My Prison Without Bars.
He was a serial liar; he accepted the permanent illegibility punishment in return of MLB stopping their investigation into his gambling. We’ll never know the depth of his gambling but to trust a word Pete ever said is foolish
And he was a rapist and pedophile. Don’t forget to mention that.
I’m not debating whether he belongs in the HOF or not.
100% behind this decision… shouve been written years ago as what they hand is LIFETIME ban… if a player’s lifetime is done (death), the ban should be over, Still, i think i wouldve waited a few years after Pete’s death. This feels insensitive at this moment. They do this in 2027-28 and no harm done. I’d imagine that this will be the cradle for another rule for steroid users and Trashtros cheaters that were never punished.
It wasnt a “lifetime” ban, champ
Ted Williams anticipated this. He once advocated for Shoeless Joe Jackson to be inducted into the HOF posthumously. “He said, “Joe Jackson was banned for life. His life is over, so the ban should be over”.
be rewarded when you die in prison! joke!!
Time to vote Rose and shoeless Joe in. Only in this country would they continue to punish in death. Get it done. Decades overdue.
ABSOLUTELY Agree!!
Another win for Trump, who’s been lobbying MLB for Rose.
Next up for Manfred: putting and end to Double Secret Probation.
Does he get rid of the Cone of Silence as well?
pete rose is a pedophile
Say “was” lest Jr come after you.
i am permanently ineligible due to never having played major league baseball. therefore, at the time of my death, my surviving family will demand that i be enshrined
And by enshrined, you mean embalmed…
whatever it takes to get into that building
I mean…you could always just buy a ticket.
i prefer the embalming idea
A bit perverse, but respectable.
The Hall of Fame needs to have a separate ballot for formerly banned players. With the new rules requiring a minimum number of votes to remain on the ballot, it would be unfortunate if their additions led to someone else being permanently removed from future consideration.
And their name is Robert Paulson
Who cares
Bend the knee, Manfred, you spineless wuss.
Just because he has been reinstated doesn’t mean he will be elected.
To paraphrase a writer who was referring to Barry Bonds and steroid use…”When every player who did not bet on baseball is elected to the HOF I may vote for him”.
Baseball writers are idiots. That should have became abundantly clear when Ichiro wasn’t unanimous.
Ichiro was a worse hitter and worse fielder than Adrian Beltre (to just name another recent HOFer). Why isnt your argument about Beltre?
Worse hitter? Try saying that about a guy with a lifetime batting average of .311 – that is Ichiro’s lifetime average. Yes, he didn’t hit for power but he has more hits lifetime than Pete Rose if you count his NPB numbers. Any one who hit over .300 for as long as he did is HOF material period. Oh, and Ichiro has 10 gold gloves. Beltre has….five. So the stats and awards say Ichiro was a better hitter AND a better fielder.
Can’t count the NPB stats, you’d have to consider every hit Pete had after Little League then. Ichiro is very deserving of the HOF but he isn’t the all time hit king in the highest level of baseball.
Wouldn’t it be a pisser if Rose didn’t garner the votes to be inducted? Better yet, how awkward would it be if he wasn’t even nominated for voting consideration? Neither one is very likely but I’d love to see the reactions from Manfred and Trump if either one came to fruition.
You let politics run this much of your life? Trump really won’t care much if Pete does or doesn’t get a vote, he is lowering prices, equalizing trade, negotiating peace agreements, reducing government waste, and most importantly bringing respect back to our borders. With or without whatever MLB wants to do with Pete…huge wins.
Pete Rose, Jr is buying a new suit today and preparing the acceptance speech for Sr.
I think celebrating someone posthumously is kinda a weak move and a backhand towards those that were banned…
Manfred just tryna keep his job at this point I guess
Shoeless Joe shouldn’t have ever been on the list and Rose did far worse in his personal life that professional in my opinion.
Gene Paulette was the first player ever to be permanently banned from baseball.
Good trivia question.
One (allegedly) threw a World Series (while hitting over .300), another had a gambling problem that was caught. Let’s hope Pete Rose Jr has a speech ready for his dad’s induction. It has a chance to be one of the best speeches in Cooperstown history.
Also r*ped a 15-year-old
Manfred’s logic is impaired. MLB’s reputation is clearly harmed by celebrating such a pathetic human as Pete Rose, dead or not. He was a scumbag, and if you can’t refrain from celebrating a total scumbag, you’ve got some screwed up priorities.
The best result here is Pete remaining out of the Hall.
To be fair, Manfred’s logic has been impaired since day 1 as Commissioner.
They should just set up a Hall of Infamy for these guys in the Hall. Let them in but separate them and make an example of them that those who do wrong must be remembered for their infamy even if they were great.
Shoeless Joe belongs in, pedo Pete can stay out.
Commissioner finally did something smart!! A big FYOU TO CNN.
What does CNN have to do with it?
Apparently sex with a minor isn’t enough for a permanent exemption!
From the AP: “Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred met this week [week of 13 April] at the White House with President Donald Trump…Trump said in February he intends to pardon Rose, who pleaded guilty in 1990 to two counts of filing false tax returns and served a five-month prison sentence.”
Just a small omitted detail. How many felonies do you get?
Chicken $&@& move once again. They are either eligible or they are not. What’s the point of waiting until they die? Is it just punishment to be sure they never get to see it? Does it wipe away their offenses? Plus now anyone else will know they get in when they die so what’s the point.
I think Joe has been a travesty and I’m glad that at least it’s resolved – Pete is more nuanced because he never admitted it or apologized – I don’t think his death changes what he did.
Put him in the Bad Haircut Hall of Fame and call it a day.
Mom always said he was five years behind with his hair styles.
I wonder what Paul Giamatti’s thoughts on this are…
Well, his brother Marcus is calling it “a serious dark day for baseball”. So you can imagine what Paul thinks.
He’s trying not to think about it. It’ll give him a heart attack.
Go Trump 👍
@johnzini – Anyone with a functioning brain and ethic wants him to go…far, far away and to a place that will never allow his return. Perhaps we can arrange a nice long trip on his new plane?
Can it run into a helicopter, too?
I like the way that you think, Six Buckets.
Sorta mean, though. A lot of collateral damage.
I’m very pleased this happened in my lifetime.
I hope they put Rose’s plaque right next to Ty Cobb’s. They were both sorry human beings.
Totally classless.
About time! People pay their penance in life, death ends it all.
For anyone interested, I’d highly recommend Gene Carney’s “Burying the Black Sox” when evaluating Shoeless Joe and the rest of the team. The author looks at the situation from various angles (management, league, players, gamblers). It also compares favorably to “Eight Men Out”, which was in many ways a fictionalized account of the team where the author didn’t do nearly as much homework on the subject.
I truly believe, after reading the book, that players like Chick Gandil tried to convince the gamblers that Jackson was in on the fix. They gave Jackson the money, which he tried to return to owner Charles Comiskey. Comiskey, in return, didn’t accept the money because that would’ve meant he knew about the fix and was ultimately in a state of denial Comiskey has his lawyers advise Jackson, Weaver and the other Sox players involved to confess to the deed with the belief that the players would end up being suspended for a year or so (they would’ve then be able to return to the league afterward. This belief was based on previous slaps on the wrist based upon previous gambling incidents in the sport (including World Series over the previous few years which were never really investigated extensively). Ultimately, the ascension of Landis had a much different take on this (for the betterment of the game) but he was unwilling to listen to appeal requests from Jackson or Weaver.
There was no such thing as a Baseball Hall of Fame in 1920, so the players back then had no idea of what their future punishment would constitute.(This doesn’t excuse them for anything they may have done. Of course, he and Weaver could’ve reported their knowledge of the gambling to the proper authorities, but they would have run the risks of ratting on and alienating their teammates — a no-no at the time). The “guilty” pleas were filed away in a Cook Count courthouse in 1920 but ultimately stolen prior to their criminal case (likely by someone paid by Comiskey), which led to the acquittal of the eight men since there wasn’t sufficient enough evidence otherwise at the time to convict the players of defrauding the game. What happened to the money Jackson wanted to return? This is only my belief, but he was unsure what to do with the cash initially. Ultimately, after a few years and no return to the game possible, he decided to spend it on creating his small business in Greenville, South Carolina. I could be wrong on some of this; that’s why I recommend people to read the book so they could decide for themselves.
This ultimately doesn’t matter, but it’s very conceivable that the Reds were actually the better team that year anyway. Granted, the team didn’t have much in the way of future Hall-of-Famers (Edd Roush), but their pitching staff all had career years that year and it was an excellent defensive squad. The entire Black Sox scandal has erased the legitimacy of that team’s titles (for better or worse), even though it won quite a few more games that year than did the White Sox.
Anyway, please accept my apologies writing such a long piece. I guess I got carried away.
Just because they are eligible doesn’t mean that they will be selected. The steroid users are eligible, but none of them have been selected by the writers.
The writers won’t be voting on them.
Everybody who is crying either way, just shut your mouth. This is one of the only good things Manfred has done.
This has nothing to do with Pete rose. He did this for his family. Pete rose is dead. He will never know if he gets in or does not. This is purely for his family and it is a good thing.
He should not have been let in while he was alive because he bet on baseball and no one will know if he bet against his team or not. This rule should be this severe because if it was not, everyone in Major League Baseball (minors included)would be taking chances to do it.
Everyone who thinks other wise is an idiot. 🤐 just stfu
In a sworn statement, a woman identified only as Jane Doe said she got a call from Rose in 1973, when she was 14 or 15 years old. She began meeting with Rose shortly after that, at his home in Cincinnati. There, before she was 16, she said they began a sexual relationship.
Doe also said they met at locations outside Ohio, where they also had sex.
Rose admitted they knew each other and had sex, but said Doe was 16 years old at the time and denied they had sex outside Ohio. He said the sexual relationship began in 1975, the year he turned 34 years old. Rose would have been married for 11 years at that point, with two children.
No wonder Republicans like him
Ohio refused to bring charges against him! Wonder why? Maybe because the powers that be were fans of the Big Red Machine.
Just another org being spineless and bowing to trump.
Was moving an all star game out of ATL not the result of political pressure (from owners and elsewhere)? Do we only see the truth when it agrees with us?
Moving a whole all star weekend an economically impacting the host city over lies about voter suppression is ok but some dead men being reinstated is a travesty. Talk about locked in on one political narrative and letting it rule your every opinion.
No one cares. It was probably your mother, you shouldn’t talk negatively about your father like that.
Lawyers
That what permanent means, of.course….
Lifetime ban seems to include the length in the name
There never was a “lifetime” ban, moron
He r*ped a 15-year-old.
The banned list was full of unsavory people. The Hall gains nothing from this. The Hall was never diminished because Rose the Hit King wasn’t in. Manfred is taking the integrity from the game throughout his entire tenure.
Horrible decision. Permanent means permanent, which should survive a player’s death. Well, not anymore. Better change the name of the list then. Rose may be the hit king but he bet on baseball and that strikes at the heart of the game.
As far as the hall, Rose, Jackson and the others now will be eligible. But don’t hold your breath on any of them getting in. Unless the HOF makes an exception, all will need an Era committee to gain enshrinement. I don’t see 9 of 12 ignoring his gambling and saying he should be in the HOF.
If a panel was willing to enshrine an undeserving player to force the BBWAA to get their act together, there will eventually be 9 to get Rose in. That player was Harold Baines, paving the way for other to get in after having a hard time doing so in prior ballots. Especially DH players.
The odds MLB.com display on the app reveal, even more than the wall-to-wall ads, that the sport is going the way of jai alai. Manfred, being a lawyer, is as lacking in principle and backbone as the Big Law firms, but in his weakness he reveals that the sport of baseball is just owned by gambling interests now, so there’s a kind of inadvertent honesty in it. My own children have zero interest in baseball, and they are absolutely right to care nothing for a game played, or “played,” to amuse gamblers.
Might get to change my username soon!
Plenty of people willing to support an accused sex predator who doesn’t think rules apply to him and who lies constantly.
Hey if you guys don’t like it, stop watching baseball. I bet you won’t… stick it to the man show them who the boss is by not watching baseball ever again….
You can start watching pickle ball. This world is filled with Nancie’s now.
If you are so against what is happening… then stop following baseball… stop watching baseball… never mention it again. It would be the best thing for you and for everyone else who is actually sane.
I’m not against what happened today but man I don’t know how you and your ego can ever fit in the same room.
So you can give the finger to everyone, say the rules don’t apply to you, agree to a ban, lie for 20 years, then admit guilt all while whining about it all for 30 years, become completely dead, and be in the HOF. Nice.