The Phillies bullpen took a huge hit over the weekend, as José Alvarado was hit with an 80-game suspension after a failed performance-enhancing drug test. Players suspended for PEDs are barred from participating in the postseason that year. Alvarado should return to the Phils bullpen in early August, but he will not be a factor in October.
Relief pitching stood out as a clear target for the Phils even before they lost their closer. To that end, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com reports that Philadelphia reached out to free agent reliever David Robertson prior to the announcement about Alvarado’s suspension. Robertson remains unsigned, of course, and Feinsand writes that initial talks with Philadelphia never seriously developed.
Perhaps the Phillies will look to reengage with the All-Star righty now that circumstances have changed. Robertson, who turned 40 in April, has not provided any indication that he’s retiring. At the same time, he clearly wasn’t motivated to take what he considered below-market money to sign. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale wrote last month that Robertson had sought a $10MM contract during the offseason. That’s not an outlandish number for one season of a high-end setup man.
Robertson pitched for Philly in 2019 and ’22, combining for a 3.30 ERA over those separate stints. He remained a key high-leverage arm with the Rangers last year. He reeled off a career-high 72 innings with an even 3.00 earned run average. Robertson punched out more than a third of opponents while averaging 93.3 MPH on the cutter that has long served as his primary offering. While there’s always a risk that a player’s production will drop off sharply in his late 30s or early 40s, Robertson didn’t show any obvious signs of decline a year ago.
That makes it fairly surprising that he wasn’t able to find a deal to his liking early in the offseason. It’s far more difficult to see him commanding a significant salary on a midseason contract, as teams tend to be up against their imposed budgets (at least until closer to the trade deadline). Alvarado is not paid during his suspension, so he’ll lose nearly $4MM of his $9MM salary. That could theoretically open spending room for the Phils, but Alvarado will return to the payroll for the final two months of the season and it’s unclear whether Robertson is willing to budge at all on his asking price.
The trade deadline is a little more than two months off. The Phils made one of the biggest reliever moves at last summer’s deadline, acquiring rental closer Carlos Estévez from the Angels for a pair of pitching prospects. They might be similarly aggressive this July. They’ll have a tough time pulling off a significant trade within the next few weeks, though.
The Cardinals have long been expected to move Ryan Helsley this summer, but they’ve been one of the best teams in the league over the past month and are within a game of the NL Central lead. The Nationals will probably deal Kyle Finnegan at some point, though it seems unlikely that’ll happen two months into the season. The reeling Orioles have a couple arms (e.g. Félix Bautista, Keegan Akin) who’d generate interest if they’re willing to listen on players who are controllable beyond this year. Feinsand highlights a few speculative trade candidates on the handful of truly rebuilding teams, but those clubs (Rockies, White Sox, Marlins, Pirates) rank near the bottom of the league in bullpen effectiveness.
For now, Jordan Romano is expected to return to the closing role in Philadelphia. The offseason signee has kept opponents off the board in each of his past eight outings. He hasn’t allowed a hit in any of four most recent appearances. Romano’s season numbers are weighed down by a horrendous start, but he’s been dominant since the calendar turned to May. Matt Strahm is an excellent setup option from the left side. They’re light on right-handed options to bridge the gap to Romano, as Orion Kerkering remains inconsistent because of scattershot command.
What is bro even looking for at this point.
Hopefully the Porter Hodge injury for Jed to pay up and get David back in Chicago.
It may be about money, but I wonder if there’s an injury issue that we aren’t aware of.
I’d take $4m to pitch half a year. Still not too far off his ask. Of course now the Phillies need a reliever so he should make them pay a premium. $8m would be my starting ask from his perspective.
And the appropriate response from the Phillies in that scenario would be to tell him to get effed. He sure didn’t give any money back when he got hurt 7 games in during his first go round in 2019.
Robertson has the same chance of getting 8m, as he would have of asking 100m, zero!! Around 3m, would be a ” good deal”, for Robertson. He is 40 years old, and would need at least 3 weeks to ramp up, before joing the “big club”.
Are you assuming he’s not pitching while at home? No one knows. Some guys have been pitching to local college teams. He might be closer than the public knows.
One time in little league I was brought in for relief with the bases loaded and no outs. I pitch to contact and induced a triple play. True story.
“Even looking for”…A desperate team. And it looks like he may have found it, in the Phillies.
A performance based contract might have been a good compromise between Robertson and teams hesitant to pay his demands during the offseason
If he wasn’t signed I would guess he wasn’t interested. Which is fairly unreasonable. Pretty cool that he represents himself.
Yup…He’s made quite a bit of money. He does not NEED to pitch. So make it worth his while or he will stick around at home. Someone at some point who is both desperate and a good playoff candidate then he can come back and try to get a ring.
Now lets see if the Phillies will stretch their budget.
There are no performance based contracts.
Not as such, but it could be something like $3m with an additional $500k for every 8 games pitched. Give the team some protection against injury.
It’s not just against injury. If he doesn’t pitch well they won’t use him very much if at all and he won’t be able to meet innings or game requirements.
What he meant is a low base with a lot of performance based incentives to earn more money.
Except clubs are not allowed to put incentives in contracts for performance stats like ERA or saves or OPS. It can only be based on usage, like games finished or starts or innings pitched or plate appearances. Of course if a guy is hurt or ineffective he generally won’t play enough to earn those incentives.
The more comments I see from Captainmike1, the more I’m glad there’s truly a real barrier between baseball people and baseball fans sometimes.
Stop being an A-HOLE already
Of course there are
What planet are you on?
In Major League Baseball, a performance clause in a contract typically refers to provisions that provide additional compensation to a player based on their on-field achievements or other performance-related milestones. These clauses often include playing time requirements, such as games played, innings pitched, or plate appearances. They can also include bonuses for reaching specific statistical achievements, such as home runs or wins.
Here’s a more detailed breakdown:
Types of Performance Clauses:
Incentive Clauses:
These clauses are designed to motivate players to perform at a higher level, with bonuses tied to specific accomplishments.
Bonus for Playing Time:
Many contracts include bonuses tied to playing time, such as games played, innings pitched, or plate appearances.
Milestone Bonuses:
While the MLB’s Basic Agreement prohibits bonuses for reaching milestone achievements like 3,000 hits, 500 home runs, or 200 wins, some contracts may still include these.
Awards and Recognition:
Bonuses may be awarded for winning individual awards like MVP, All-Star selections, or Gold Gloves.
Examples of Performance Clauses:
A pitcher might have a clause that pays an additional bonus if they pitch a certain number of innings.
A hitter might have a clause that pays a bonus for every 100 plate appearances.
A player might have a clause that pays a bonus if they win a Gold Glove award
He’s a 40yr old, one-inning reliever who doesnt close and was asking for $10M?!? Every team, including the Phils, should pass on him based on the fact he’s a delusional idiot.
he was a closer in 22 and 23
“He’s a 40yr old…asking for $10M”..David Robertson has always known how to get guys out. That’s always been fairly important throughout the history of MLB.
I would pay him his asking price (prorated) and ask all my other relievers to often observe the Robertson process of getting guys out. Where else is Philly going find a viable high leverage reliever on short notice?
He choked in Philly before remember???
Or…
He’s a really good reliever. Did you miss what he did in 2024?
He may be delusional but he’s a darn good reliever. Only he determines his own self-worth and so far it’s $105M banked. Your opinion is worth $0.
Dodgers and Phillies desperately need an arm. It’s his time
Suarez to the pen makes the most sense. He has succeeded there before, especially in October. Recall Abel when eligible and let Walker take long relief when Nola returns. If Suarez complains about the effect on his next contract, offer to refrain from giving him a QO in return. Flags fly forever.
Take the day off goodsir.
Your post should be pinned at the top.
We can expound all day upon what they should do, however they have so much more information at their disposal.
Personally, I would try to sign Robertson (and yes from our perspective he “owes” us a little something), knowing the risk – and also accepting that he has not just the ramp up time but then a few weeks where he might not be quite up to his peak…whatever that peak will be this year.
They have excellent rotation depth which is a big factor, but it is too soon to move Ranger to the pen. They are going to play things out internally until the deadline other than a potential Robertson, or a manna from heaven deal from outside. They do have some minor league depth. I would try to sell Taj on fitting into a back of the pen role and bring Abel back for a real shot.
I agree on trying to sign Robertson, but while I understand your “Owe’ perspective….I suspect it’s not shared.
I’m sure there is lots of chatter going on with the Owner to see if they will open up their pocket books more and put them into the next range of cap penalties.
@Front – Well, of course he doesn’t look at it that way. – that is why I said “from our perspective”. But the fact is that we paid him something like $22M (from memory) for two seasons and just about zero production due to injury.
@CarverAndrews It’s the inherent risk of signing any players which teams decide to take. Once both parties fulfill their contract obligations, neither “owes” the other anything from any perspective. As a fan, I don’t expect Giancarlo Stanton to play for an extra year at the league minimum once his contract runs out.
@YBC – Again…agreed. It is a part of the process. Simply noting that it is going to be in the back of everyone’s mind, as it happened. Everyone brings a perspective into it. I am not suggesting that Robertson is looking to make good on the past if they talk again, and that is the norm.
Also, smart organizations ARE adding extra years for certain pitchers, especially. If they lose a season plus to a TJS then they are working to build in an extra year at the minimum if possible. Or they are working other deals on the flip side when they sign rehabbing pitchers.
Stanton would have to give you three extra seasons by the end of his deal… ; )
Lol. To do what? He’ll pull a hammy as a Spring Training instructor with a fungo bat.
Stop with the nonsensical drool. Dumbrowski go get a legitimate closer.
Suarez can absolutely close. He has done it before quite well.
6-7 with escalators should get the job done, if he looks good in workouts and physicals. If Philly is offering something close to that and he’s not biting he might not want to go there or maybe he’s closer to hanging it up? Either way they need to get something done. They are a good team and need to strike now while the Mets are floundering.
Why is everyone saying $10M is so unreasonable? He has been worth it for 3 straight years. Relievers are underpaid because teams don’t like to take the risk. He doesn’t have to pitch if he doesn’t want to. But he knows someone will come calling and he will stay fresh (which could also hurt him but I doubt it considering he’s a reliever, 40 years old, and an all time great honestly). Jansen and Kimbrel were routinely getting these contracts and weren’t nearly as consistent. Yes, he’s 40. I don’t look at age the same for historically good players.
Old players are good, until they aren’t. If he’s like Jesse Orosco and pitch effectively into his 40’s, that is fantastic for him. But from bbref, Jesse was already signing free agent contracts with large performance incentives by his mid 30’s. A guaranteed $10M just seems crazy for a 40 year old pitcher. (Scherzer, Morton, Verlander cough cough)
Yes. You take a risk. Teams have likely been thinking that for the last several seasons and he’s panned out each time. The number 40 is not magical. Your own example proves this. Verlander had a very good year at age 40 and Morton was a very serviceable pitcher who threw 160 innings. Hard to compare him to Scherzer when Max was injured almost his entire age 39 season (last year). And you would think that a reliever would have a better shot at this. We only have a handful of examples to go on because guys aren’t usually healthy and effective this long and the way relievers are used today only goes back fairly recently. I’m not comparing him to these pitchers but look at Rivera and Hoffman putting up sub-2 era in their 40s. Surely Wagner could have pitched again at age 39 after a 1.4 era season. Modern relief pitching has only produced a handful of examples to base anything on. Most relievers are done way before 40. But he isn’t. So we can’t really compare him to many people
1.7 WAR pitcher who only pitches 1 inning a game and doesn’t pitch every game is a very valuable pitcher per outing and a lot of high leverage pitchers with consistent track records get $10M+ on one year deals at this point in their career.
I don’t think Robertson was wrong to ask for $10M, but I wonder if he sat it out because he wasn’t getting offers anywhere *close* to $10M- I am sure if he was angling for $10M and wound up with $6M or more, he’d have made that deal- but I get the sense that he wasn’t getting more than $1-2M offers, which, at this point in his career with over $100M in career earnings pre-taxes/agent fees (though I know he is now self-represented and has been for a few years) it isn’t worth the slog of a full season of ramping up with work outs, training, the travel, etc.
I think it’s also because he’s made plenty of money, so if he does not get the money/situation he likes….He will just relax at home and wait for an offer he wants. Maybe at some point teams will splurge for $5m for half a season. He spends his free time with the wife and kids for a few months. And if he signs, he can make sure the prospective team is still in the hunt for a ring.
He’s a bum, and perfect fit for Dumbrowski
A $105M bum to you, sir.
I’d call the Rockies about Scott halverson that kid is under the radar and horribly mismanaged by Colorado
Alas, the Rockies never trade their guys they just let them rot
Whoops meant Seth
Well, the Phillies should have driven his trade value down tonight.
I’m not sure what the big deal is. A former 7th rounder with a lot of walks in his resume.
He consistently throws 100-102 mph and has a decent breaking pitch but has control issues
Kind of like Michael kopech and of course leaving Chicago was what helped kopech become a good pitcher
FWIW, Yates got $13M. It’s the LAD, so maybe it’s inflated, but some mediocre RPs are still pulling down $6-7-8M.
An amazing number of baseball fans really seem to hate players earning what they’re worth.
DRob asked for a reasonable amount to bolster a team this season and I hope he gets it, but he has no reason to reduce his demand except to prorate it.
The owners should be lining up to get him at that price, but most of them would rather put that $10M in their own pockets.
Captainmike1 is definitely one of those fans lol.
Hoyer rarely moves fast, but maybe this time he will, on Robinson.
Typical Dumbrowski, scraping under the barrel.
Phillies acquire:
Aroldis Chapman LHP (1/$10.5m)
Rob Refsnyder OF (1/$2.0m)
Red Sox acquire:
Taijuan Walker RHSP (2/$36.0m)
Nabil Crismat RHSP (2.86 ERA @ AAA)
Otto Kemp 1B (#18)
Red Sox get the SP plug they desperately need with all the injuries, plus some AAA depth. They also open up a 40 man roster spot and activate Otto Kemp to the 40 man & 26 man rosters, to play 1B. He’s batting .330 and leads all AAA in HR’s, RBI’s and OPS+.
Ha ha ha ha – no
The Phillies could toss in “Seth Beer” as well. Beer makes any offer better.
As a Rookie…He hit .444 with an OPS of 1.389! (Nine ABs is not really THAT small of a Sample Size…LOL)
(And Yes…I realize Seth Beer really adds no actual value…other than it would be a Great Jersey to Own.)
Otto is on pace for 187 Ks/600 ABs in AAA. If Crismat was a legit major league RP, the Phillies would promote him. Walker’s $36M/2 is way too high.
And that doesn’t count that we’d need to replace both Chapman and Ref.
Well, Otto has 53Ks in 202 PAs because he does draw some walks and gets HBP at a ridiculously high rate. He still has trouble with off speed stuff. He’s interesting because for his age he really has played much baseball, plus he’s named Otto.
I would like to see my A’s be bold and Trade Mason Miller to the Phillies before the deadline for Andrew Painter. Make something happen Forst
1..Borrow the Tardis from Dr. Who.
2. Go back in time and bring back prime Reggie Jackson or Rickey Henderson.
3. Add them to the deal.
4. Now you’re talking.
Painter is going nowhere.
You’re still believing Fisher would let that happen? “Your” A’s too, lol, the amount of comments I see you putting down and trashing and bashing the city of Oakland, you should’ve been a Giants fan by now, (not) Mitchell Page.
Not that Philly would do, so it’s a moot point.
But why wouldn’t Fisher let that happen?
Phillies should call Reds about Alexis Diaz. Diaz is sitting in AAA but Caleb Cotham has worked with him in the past. Reds will probably give him Away if you take his contract for this season…
Seranthony Dominguez and Soto out of the BAL bullpen are familiar with the Phils. Please take them.
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!