The Phillies have made improving their bullpen the club’s top priority this summer. They already signed David Robertson to help pitch in for the stretch run and into the playoffs, and since then have been connected to a bevy of high-end relief arms ranging from Griffin Jax and Jhoan Duran of the Twins to less expensive options like David Bednar of the Pirates and Ryan Helsley of the Cardinals. Matt Gelb of The Athletic provided an update on the state of Philadelphia’s bullpen pursuits today, and part of that update was a report that the club could consider a move to the bullpen for talented lefty starter Jesus Luzardo depending on how the bullpen looks after the deadline.
According to Gelb, it remains “unclear” if the Twins will actually move either Jax or Duran before the deadline and the Phillies have “balked” at Pittsburgh’s asking price for Bednar. That might leave Helsley as the club’s best option to get a deal done, and Gelb suggests that there’s a “potential path” to the two clubs working out a deal that sends the two-time All-Star to Philadelphia. With that said, Gelb also cautions that Helsley is getting widespread interest. That’s not a shock after reporting yesterday indicated that at least half a dozen teams were involved in Helsley’s market, of course, but Gelb notes that the club may have to get “creative” in its efforts to revamp the bullpen if a deal for Helsley cannot be worked out.
That creativity, it seems, could involve Luzardo. The southpaw has had a rollercoaster first season in Philadelphia. After looking like an early-season Cy Young candidate with a 2.15 ERA in 11 starts, the southpaw was blown up for 20 runs in 5 2/3 innings of work across two appearances. He’s settled in somewhat after those disastrous outings, but his ERA in nine starts since then has been a rather pedestrian 4.10. All of this comes against the backdrop of peripherals that are nothing short of elite. Luzardo has a 27.1% strikeout rate, an 8.5% walk rate, a 42.4% ground ball rate, and a 6.6% barrel rate. is ability to strike batters out at a high level while generally keeping the ball on the ground and missing barrels creates a strong overall package, as demonstrated by his 2.97 FIP and 3.56 SIERA.
Impressive as Luzardo’s underlying numbers are, however, it’s undeniable that the Phillies have an excess of rotation options. Luzardo is joined by Zack Wheeler, Cristopher Sanchez, Ranger Suarez, and Taijuan Walker in the rotation as things stand. Aaron Nola is due to return from the injured list in the near future, and top prospect Andrew Painter has been knocking on the door of the majors all season long. Wheeler, Sanchez, and Suarez are all locked in as the club’s like Game 1, 2, and 3 starters in a playoff series, and Nola’s innings-eating ability surely won’t be moved out of the rotation either.
That leaves just one spot available for Luzardo, Walker, and Painter. Gelb notes that the Phillies entered 2025 expecting to need to manage Luzardo’s innings in at least some capacity, and while they don’t feel it’s strictly necessary at this point that could still make it easier for them to decide to move Luzardo to relief. Luzardo has a 3.64 ERA in his first time facing the opposing lineup this year, but that rises to 4.03 on the second turn through the order and balloons all the way up to 6.04 on the third. Perhaps the combination of the club’s long-standing plan to manage Luzardo’s innings and his weaker performance after going through the order multiple times could push the organization to try the lefty out as a bullpen piece.
It’s certainly a part of the roster that needs attention, even after signing Robertson. Jordan Romano hasn’t worked out as the club’s closer, and Jose Alvarado was hit with a PED suspension that will render him ineligible for the postseason. Robertson has a phenomenal track record but must be considered a question mark in his age-40 season without a typical Spring Training ramp-up process. Matt Strahm, Orion Kerkering, and Tanner Banks have all been quality arms, but more help is needed. It’s certainly not hard to imagine Luzardo being able to plug that hole given his impressive stuff that would surely play up even further in a relief setting. Luzardo has 16 relief outings under his belt throughout his career, though he’s pitched out of the rotation exclusively since 2022.
While Luzardo moving to the bullpen could make some sense, it’s certainly not the only way the club could bolster its relief corps—even if none of Duran, Jax, Helsley, or Bednar can be had. Pete Fairbanks, Robert Suarez, Kenley Jansen, and Raisel Iglesias are other hurlers with closing experience who are rumored to be available on at least some level. There’s plenty of interesting non-closers to be had as well, such as Danny Coulombe, Phil Maton, Dennis Santana, Andrew Kittredge, and Anthony Bender. Beyond those veteran names, the Rockies are known to be open to moving many of their young relievers, and it’s even possible that someone like Camilo Doval could be available in the right deal. With so many viable late-inning relief arms available on the market, it would be something of a shock if the Phillies were to strike out on all of them.
Luzardo has proven he’s solid out of the rotation this season. If they feel pressured to push him into a bullpen spot because of Painter coming knocking, flip Painter for a real reliever like Duran and another (Castro or Bader) at the deadline.
Hah! Are you sure the Twins would accept such a steep price??? Hopeful Twins fan indeed
Hope – Luzardo had a total meltdown in last Wednesday’s game when his teammates lost an easy popup in the sun. I’m not sure I’d trust him in pressure situations.
He’s up to 121 IP currently. He had a max of 178 IP 2 years ago. It’s probably more about limiting his pitch count more than it’s about his recent run of form. Taijuan Walker can spot start a few and they could potentially give Painter a couple starts as well. They know they gotta protect him for the playoffs as he has a lengthy injury history.
“flip Painter for a real reliever” would be squandering Painter’s potential for a short-term upgrade.
This is a dumb move . It’s also insulting to Luzardo. Why would Luzardo agree to a move that would hurt his value as a player?
Because he’s on an innings limit.
I’m fine with it if he agrees to it, but the starting pitcher and the bullpen have different dynamics and preparation. This could undo all the progress he has made this year and also hurt his value in free agency. I hope the Phillies aren’t pressuring him to accept the move to the bullpen.
Just curious – when one is being paid millions per year to play baseball, and the team makes a reasonable decision that would be for the good of the team in the short term, why is the player’s agreement required?
Of course they would have a discussion about it, and of course they would have to make sure that he is not hurt in arbitration discussions over the winter by the temporary move. But it is not as if any player is guaranteed a spot on the field or in the rotation or the bullpen, anywhere at any time. This comment is akin to the silliness of the Devers drama, with folks championing his “right” to play where he wants. I mean – sure – refuse to leave the rotation, or refuse to move to first…no problem. We can stop the checks.
Are you serious?they were hired to play in their position, how much they are paid is irrelevant. The players have zero obligation to do other jobs besides the one they were hired for, just because the owner/front office didn’t do their job of assembling the team correctly. If a hospital manager asked a doctor to clean up the garbage because he didn’t want to pay for a garbage man, would the doctor do it? Of course not — it’s ridiculous.
For example, if Dever makes a lot of errors at first base, fans will attack him. Why should he accept all that abuse, stress and extra pressure just because he’s playing 1B as a favour to the team? Do you think people will attack the front office for the errors? Most of the abuse will be directed at Dever.
@beisball – Your passion on this issue is interesting. A few reactions:
* Luzardo has 16 relief appearances in his career
* If they ask a pitcher to play SS, that would be grounds for refusal – asking one to pitch, whether in the pen or as a starter is a part of the deal. Period. No contract guarantees a position or role – it is a performance based game.
* Your analogy of a hospital doctor being told to be a garbageman is a false analogy.
* In the real world, good employers are careful about how they manage their employees, but good employees are not obnoxious about occasional roles and tasks that are not a part of the routine.
Have you been in the working world? Have you every played baseball at a higher level? Have you ever noticed that most baseball players have played different positions at times? Have you ever seen a position player close out a game that was a rout? Have you noticed the star players in the league that “will do whatever it takes to help the team” are the rule and not the exception.
@beisball – The % of folks that would accept a learning curve at a new position and a bit of fan abuse for $31M per year is inestimably greater than those that would simply refuse to do it. Although, despite climate change, we do seem to produce more snowflakes today than ever before…
Actually, no, players are not “hired to play in their position”. Their contract specifically states they are hired for their “skilled services as a baseball player”. So your hospital analogy is way off (a doctor is hired to be a doctor, not a garbage man).
I am 100% for player empowerment. And I fully believe the Phillies would go to Luzardo (who they have under contract for another season, so they do not want to spoil the relationship) to see if he’d be open to moving to the bullpen. I think the best way for the Phillies to do this move is to go to Jesus to tell him they want to move him to the bullpen, in part to keep his innings under control. Then, assure him that the contract they reach in the offseason (to avoid arbitration) would be commensurate with a healthy starter’s “full load”.
You know what I mean with the analogy. Maybe I exaggerated with the garbage man, but let’s say the doctors were asked or forced to work so many consecutive hours or shifts, which is a real issue in the world right now. I agree with everything else you said.
As much as I like Luzardo’s ability , the move to the bullpen wouldn’t hurt his value as much as his astronomical ERA as a starter lately.
I have an idea, if one doesn’t want to go to the bullpen , then pitch better as a starter!
Jesus is Just Allright – Sir Doobie
Luzardo deserves better than this. That’s fine for Taijuan Walker, though, because he’s been underperforming and is getting paid $18 million a year. This also means the Phillies are putting all their chips on a big bat.
I’d only trade Luzardo for a top closer. Otherwise it’d be silly to move him.
Isn’t Luzardo’s issue pitching out of the stretch? Seems like a move to the bullpen wouldn’t address that issue.
A lot of pitchers pitch from the stretch all the time now, or use an abbreviated windup. That seems like the simple fix.
Relievers don’t generally pitch out of the stretch more than starters. They will occasionally come into a game with men on base, but that’s much less common than it used to be. Most teams heavily prioritize bringing in a reliever at the start of an inning.
How many relievers do you see pitching out of a full windup?
Saying “Just trade for a reliever” implies that there is such a guy readily available that doesn’t cost a steep price that would noticeably move the needle.
… Ryan Helsley for a 40 FV A-Ball guy? I guess but I’m not seeing that dramatically improve their chances over just running it back
DUMBrowski dealt far, far more to the Angels last year for a two month rental.
Everybody is trying to unload their pen on DUMBo to empty the Phillies farm.
There’s loads of relievers available. No star closers except maybe Duran, but that’s just a matter of opportunity. Every team down to and including the Rockies has a couple 100mph studs you can grab.
While I don’t want Luzardo to lose money in arbitration (and think a Walker/Painter combo down the stretch is worse than Luzardo as the 5th starter), I do somewhat see the logic of moving him to the pen. He’s now almost doubled his innings total from last year (where he ended the season with a lumbar stress reaction – which happens due to repetitive stress in the back), and with his next start, will likely have his second highest innings total in his 9 season career (majors and minors). I think if they were upfront about limiting his innings (like they have been with Painter), and not just said it once early in the year, and now “we’ll see how the bullpen looks after the deadline”, it wouldn’t look as bad.
Can the Phillies win a championship without a proven closer,I don’t think so. I do not see one on this current staff. All this talk of painter, able etc to the bullpen, don’t change that. Nevermind the inept handling of the entire staff by the manager. Whatever the price Dombrowski, needs to step up, finally.
Of course they can. The last three years they lost because of the terrible offense. By the time they got to the ninth inning, they were losing by two to five runs. Why do you need a closer if you’re losing by the ninth inning? There’s nothing to close. Closers are so overrated. The Phillies got to the World Series in 2022 with two relievers. A closer would have made no difference in 2022, 2023 or 2024. They lost because the offence and bullpen were terrible..
The Phillies need a legitimate closer and a right handed power bat or there won’t be a parade on broad Street. Dombrowski does what he needs to do and has been reluctant to do and I will be back to mute you, after the parade.
If Walker gets one more start after today the Phillies front office and Topper have once again failed. There is no world where T. Walker should be pitching in a pennant race with the depth the Phillies have at their finger tips. This is no time for feelings and no time to worry about the money T. Walker is owed, it was a mistake, its a bad contract. It happens, move on…
This has been foreshadowed for a while now. Luzardo was the obvious choice for a bullpen move in the playoffs, and an acclimation period makes sense – also his inning load is a concern as well.
Wheeler / Sanchez / Ranger and Nola in the playoff rotation. The pen could use a potentially elite lefty in the back end mix for sure.
And the Phils can protect him in arbitration as well – he is controlled for one more year and they can just agree to a fair arb price for him as a starter based upon the previous arbitration salaries. This is not a bad thing if handled well and the Phils under DD have been pretty smart about how they communicate things.
Painter baby let’s go!
CREATIVE would be Andrew Painter, Mick Abel and Gage Wood to the pen.
That’s how teams get good bullpens, from within.
Helsley is going to bomb. Only an idiot would give the Twins even half what they want.
Relievers are the Skid Row people of MLB.
Mariano Rivera on line 1.
No question Luzardo had the stuff for the back end of the bullpen. The Phillies have an embarrassment of riches in the rotation and are seemingly well set up in that department for at least 2 more years. Inevitably, some starters will move to the bullpen come playoffs anyways.
Luzardo is notoriously superstitious and seemingly a creature of habit. He will need some time to adjust to the bullpen. One way or another, I think the move is inevitable.
I wonder what the asking price is for Maton, Santana, and Doval.
Hear me out
Phillies get Cease and Suarez
For
Padres get
Luzardo
Keaton Anthony 17
Mendez 14
2 of the following: Jean Cabrera 10, Moises Chance 8. Mick Abel 6.
Cease and Luzardo benefit from change of scenery on playoff teams . Padres pick up a 1B prospect, OF prospect, pitching prospects and Phillies get their closer in Suarez.
@Easy – You have been heard.
So you want the Phils to receive two rental pieces (Suarez will opt out). They don’t need Cease given the rotation depth anyway.
And the Phils give up a controlled starter in Luzardo (1 more year) who might be just as good as Suarez in the playoff pen this year anyway. And for that privilege they also give up Mendez (who is surging in prospect rankings), Keaton (teen level system guy that is potentially useful), and two of their top 4 pitching prospects.
I am guessing that you are a Friars fan?? ; )
Swapping Cease for Luzardo isn’t that much of a difference if anything it’s just hoping change of scenery fixes one or both as they’re both struggling.
And you’re suggesting your 17th,14th, 10th, 8th best prospects are an overpay for an elite closer in Suarez? Oh boy wait til you find out the real asking price for elite all star pen pieces. Gonna knock your socks off.
A part of my fun on here is to see the utterly ridiculous trade proposals by commenters. Thanks for this one today.
Luzardo does not need a change of scenery at all, and is much more valuable than Cease given the additional year of control., although certainly peak Cease is better on a per game basis.
You should actually know something about prospects other than reading what system # they are in a given organization.
“Luzardo doesn’t need a change of scenery”
Yeah he needed one in Oakland, one in Miami, and oh look he’s scuffling again ballooning his era to 4.31 struggling for two almost three months. Started June with 4.45 ended July with 4.31 and wasn’t much better leading up to June either. And not like he’s shown anything to suggest his struggles will stop come August September. He’s antrugflinf and could definitely use a change of scenery. They’re already talking moving him to the pen but sure doesn’t need change of scenery as a starter despite him needing it everywhere he’s gone as a starter lmao.
“Don’t trust people paid to rank prospects and their evaluations of prospects trust random armchair GM named carverandrews on prospect rankings of his favorite team!” – CarverAndrews
Thanks for the reminder that there’s always that one homer who overvalues his teams prospects more than he should every trade deadline and offseason. Today that award goes to you CarverAndrews.
Your 17th,14th, 10th, and 8th best prospects for an elite closer rental is about what teams usually pay in terms of prospect haul. Wait till you find out other rentals are asking for your top 5 guys to be included. You’re gonna lose your bowel movements.
You are a silly poster, Easy. Also, a hyper-reactive and rude individual that is not worth the time of day.
* He’s struggling and could definitely use a change of scenery.
“ A part of my fun on here is to see the utterly ridiculous trade proposals by commenters. Thanks for this one today.” CarverAndrews
“ You are a silly poster, Easy. Also, a hyper-reactive and rude individual that is not worth the time of day.” – also CarverAndrews
So it’s ok if you do it but don’t like it when it’s done to you huh CarverAndrews. Interesting. How about not letting your mouth write checks your butt can’t cash lmao.
Phillies get Jackson Merrill.
Choose who you want.
Thanks for the laugh, Easy! And I’m obviously a Padre fan.
Fan is a bit of an exaggerated overstatement.
You’re a fan of minors from what you’ve told us.
Oh hey Joel, that is an idiotic statement. Bye!
Who’s Joel? Why do you people have weird names for ppl lmao. Ryan Joel Jesus how damaged are you ppl?
What do you mean “you people”? Wanna be my first Mute?
You people as in you paranoid scaredy cats who apparently live in constant fear of some dudes named Joel and Ryan on this website lmao. Like how damaged did these dudes make you where you’re randomly calling random accounts someone they’re not?
OH GOD ITS JOEL
I’m not Joel
OH GOD JOELS BACK
who’s Joel exactly
RUN FOR THE HILLS ITS JOEL BACK FROM BAN LAND TO HAUNT OUR SOULS
Both hysterical and sad man. Not Ryan not Joel or any other dudes who scorned your love interest and broke your heart.
You’ve got extensive issues, easiest Mute ever!
Joels behind your back watch out! Phew that was a close one Gwynn. Joel almost got you this time.
I’ve seen Joel and Ryan post before and there 2 of the most ridiculous and irritable posters ever. Add whatever your Easy name is to load the bases with Trade Rumour’s 3 Stooges! #carverandgwynnareright
Well, least you aren’t claiming I’m Joel or Ryan. That’s refreshing. Honestly have no idea who they are but the way people like gwynning and pads fan act about them you’d think they’re the boogy man or something lmao.
I’m old enough to remember when King. Of. Cards had yet another one of his “amazing” takes where he was ready to crown Luzardo the next literal Cy Young, going on and on and on about him.
I suggested to pump the brakes and that he was due to regress closer to the norm. Seems one of us was right. Again.
Luzardo has great stuff and will give you everything he has on the mound, but his manager doesn’t know how to handle him. Left him out to dry in a blowout. I love his mental toughness.
He’s a bulldog. I like him. What you saw of him the 1st month or 2 was not the full Luzardo though. Many pitchers have dominant stretches, but then they fall back in line like Luzardo did here coming back closer to his career numbers.
Mis-direction by DD.
1-Luzardo is too inconsistent to be a closer. He’s been hit really hard in 6 of his last 11, and been brilliant in the other 5. That’s a SP, not an RP.
2-Without Luzardo, the Phillies are down to 3 SPs and would be betting on Nola, Painter and Walker to fill the other two slots. That’s ‘okay, but with Luzardo no sure thing as a closer, I don’t like it.
The Phillies need not just a decent closer, they probably need a top-tier guy.
The only reason they would do this is about his innings count. Especially after last night when he threw seven shut out innings. But first they have to make sure Nola is healthy and painter is ready to come up. Lotta ifs just to let the GM off the hook for not doing his job.
Considering a lot of Luzardo’s issues arrive when pitching out of the stretch……. Hmmmmmm?
Great point, unless he comes in for the start of an inning, he’s not a come in for a dirty inning guy. At least not right now.
It would make more sense of possibly having Nola in the bullpen vs Luzardo moving this late in the season. Luzardo’s FIP has been much kinder at 2.97 this season, and it’ll take too much time for Nola to get ramped up back into the rotation after being out several months.
Bullpen maybe for the playoffs in shorter series but he’s a solid starter in the regular season. He’s had some bumps in the road but has been more good than not. I can note two occasions that the manager didn’t pull him early enough and he got hung out there. But he’s recovered well and is a good fifth starter.