Aug. 5: The Cubs formally placed Soroka on the 15-day injured list with a right shoulder strain and recalled righty Nate Pearson from Triple-A Iowa. The team still has not provided an expected timetable for Soroka’s return, though the diagnosis of a strain (as opposed to “just” inflammation) isn’t especially encouraging.
Aug. 4: Michael Soroka’s debut with the Cubs could hardly have gone worse. The righty only made it through two innings before departing the game with shoulder discomfort. Manager Craig Counsell said postgame that Soroka is headed to the 15-day injured list; the severity of the injury and recovery timeline aren’t clear (relayed by Maddie Lee of The Chicago Sun-Times and ESPN’s Jesse Rogers).
The Cubs acquired Soroka from the Nationals on Wednesday. They sent rookie ball infielder Ronny Cruz and Triple-A outfielder Christian Franklin to Washington in return. Soroka had made his final start for the Nats the night before the trade. That kept him from making his first appearance with Chicago until tonight. Soroka fanned three while allowing a run in his two innings of work against the Reds. Cincinnati starter Nick Lodolo also left in the second inning with an injury — a blister on his throwing hand, in his case.
Shoulder discomfort seems a more significant concern than a blister. Soroka’s fastball was sitting in the 90-91 range. His season average is 93.6 MPH. Soroka’s velocity has plummeted coming out of the All-Star Break. His four-seamer was above 93 MPH in all but one start in the season’s first half. It was down to 91.7 in his first appearance of the second half, then to roughly 91 flat over his final two appearances in a Washington uniform.
Soroka said tonight (via Rogers) that he underwent an MRI before the trade which confirmed he was healthy. He indicated he felt the discomfort tonight when he tried to reach back for a little extra velocity. Soroka has logged his heaviest workload in six years. The Canadian right-hander reached 174 2/3 innings over 29 starts as a rookie with Atlanta in 2019.
Consecutive Achilles tears essentially robbed him of the next three-plus seasons. Soroka also missed time with shoulder injuries in both 2023 and ’24. He spent a good portion of last year with the White Sox in the bullpen, only starting nine of 25 appearances. He reached 79 2/3 MLB innings last season and is up to 83 1/3 frames this year. Tonight was his 17th start, his most since his excellent rookie season.
The Cubs assumed roughly $2.9MM on Soroka’s $9MM salary in the trade. He’ll be a free agent at season’s end. Jameson Taillon isn’t far off his return from a calf strain, but he’s expected to require at least one more rehab start with Triple-A Iowa. In the interim, they’ll probably go with a rotation of Matthew Boyd, Shota Imanaga, Cade Horton, Colin Rea and Ben Brown. The Soroka acquisition was meant to push Brown to the bullpen; he tossed four innings of one-run ball tonight in relief.
Lol cubs
Hahahaha too bad MLB doesn’t have a lemon law amiright?
They’ll always be the loveable losers.
Soroka was a dumb acquisition, but Cubs are still solidly in position for a post-season bid.
Are they? It’s kinda starting to feel like the last 3 years all over again. I mean they keep trying the same cheap crap and it hasn’t worked yet, What makes you think it will now?
Fangraphs playoff probability blah blah blah
The Cubs vaunted offense has taken a powder. The early season approach of working counts and swinging at good pitches has been replaced by swinging at anything and everything Javy Baez style and striking out at prolific rates. So in other words, They’re choking. Plus the pen which was so valuable is now showing it’s age with a bunch of dudes in their late 30’s. I said they needed another high leverage late inning arm and what we got were A bunch of used tires. Will they hold up? Stay tuned.
The real problem as I’ve said many times is that the owner has set his own salary cap for his team. Then he hires a POBO who has champagne tastes and has ZERO idea how to work within that budget and manage the talent at hand. So you have an owner with a cap, A POBO who wants to spend up to that cap instead of managing the talent at hand and blend it together and has no idea what he’s doing. And now has an extension. Not really a formula for long term success. So be ready for anything. When I said Caissie is here for next year I may not be totally correct. The prospects still have to last through the Winter Meetings and now the string puller has a new deal to make more “Tucker” like deals. This blows.
Uncle, you know the old saying. The “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”. When it comes to the Cubs, you can flip the word insanity for foolishness if one wishes.
Fred- You know the Dodgers and Yankees spend billions and the Brewers and Rays know how to budget their money and work within a budget. Everybody whines that Ricketts is cheap but compared to those 2 teams he’s a spendthrift. He’s redesigned and spent a ton of his own money giving them a safer super nice modern stadium while keeping it old school like it was with no help from the city. I don’t get it. There is no one way to build a baseball organization. But for the life of me I can’t figure out why you give an extension to a guy who’s proven time and time again he can’t do it. The Reds and Pirates are just cheap and don’t spend the money on the infrastructure( Scouting, Minor League development) , To make it work. I admire the people who do it right. The ones who aren’t afraid to take a chance on their own people and promote it from within. I wish we had one of those people to run it. Apologies to the teams I didn’t list who also do it better. The Cubs have great scouts and development people but they’re just here to raise trade fodder for someone who knows nothing. It’s really sad.
And I’ll say, what I’ve been saying since the day they made the trade:
Tucker for Cam Smith – – will go down as the WORST TRADE in the history of the Chicago Cubs.
That’s a bad one Dog. As far as a trade. But another bad move was letting Kyle Schwarber walk for NOTHING. Especially when the NL was implementing the DH. One never knows how things would have turned out for Kyle if he stayed. But the offensive numbers and run production he has put up are impressive.
Fred, yup that was a bad one too.
And also linked to Ricketts desire to go cheap. IMO.
Wasn’t Kyle set to make around 20 mil in arbitration that year? If I recall, he completely sucked that last year with the Cubs. I mean terrible. I think he was an excellent change of scenery candidate.
Ah, Uncle: You are finally seeing the light. I have to admit, a couple of months ago when you complained that, well, of course the Cubs were going to win the division, they were built for that, but they were not built to do well in the postseason–I thought you were whistling past the graveyard. And when I expressed some doubts, I was roasted (not by you, but by some lesser minds here) for being a troll, etc.
I think it’s pretty clear now that the Cubs aren’t going to win the division. It looks like either the Cubs or Reds will eventually get the last wild card. With that in mind, the games tonight and tomorrow–and the four in Cincy Sept.18-21– might be determinative. I still have hope. It would help if Tucker or Suzuki could do something as old-fashioned and un-analytical as, you know, drive in a run or two.
Dogbone: Worst trade in Cubs history? LOL. Come on.
3 games out and it’s “clear they won’t win the division”? The Brewers are not the team they have been lately and that will show.
The Cubs scouts pull off probably the steal of last years draft and pluck Cam Smith at around #17 and all he does in 3 months is leap up up 4 levels to AA. Then if you’re the head of scouting you watch helplessly as the moron in charge trades him for 1 year of a guy who they know they can’t re sign. I’d look for another job going what’s the point? So worst trade? Yeah I could buy that. It can be as bad as the Brock deal. Time will tell.
Keep in mind using his own money to buy are renovate the neighborhood has him taking all the fan# cash. In the old days you co7ld go to McDonalds or Yum Yum Donuts and spend your money with those entrepreneurs. There were years of fighting with rooftop owners now it all goes into Rickets pocket for the most part as the team owns the seats across the street. Boston had the initial blueprint and many clubs have followed over the past 15 years. Look at Philly where they had a ballpark a stadium and a parking lot. Now they have a big entertainment area to keep fans money before and after games.
You must not recall the Lou Brock trade. He is a HOF player. Long way to go for each of the 3 that were traded. Maybe in 15 years you will be correct
@Chris: The Brewers, like every team, are their record. We’ll see what the records are at the end of the season, but you sure seem to be riding a dead horse. The Cubs’ hitters are exhausted; the Brewers’ hitters seem like they are just starting. And the Brewers’ pitching is vastly better. Defenses are both good. It’s hard for me to see how you could be right.
That’s completely misleading. Sometimes you get a team who is hot and sometimes you get a team who is playing terribly. Sometimes you are going to be hot and sometimes you are going to be playing terribly.
“The Brewers hitters seem like they are just starting” “Cubs hitters are exhausted”… But they are what they are? Contradictory statements. The Brewers are not as good as their record indicates. You think Vaughn is going to keep up at the pace he is and you think the Cubs are going to slump for the next two months? Come on, Alan.
The teams don’t always reflect who they are by their records. That has and always will be the case. It’s how they will be defined but I see no reason to think the Brewers will keep up this pace of play and history tells me they will come back down to Earth. The Cubs are the better team, though they need pitching. They can get that from Assad or Wicks when they are up. I guess we will see by the end of the year. The Cubs can make a large statement in the upcoming five game series against them. Take 3 of 5, you’re saying something. Take 4 of 5 and that’s huge. Sweep a 5 game series with them (unlikely) but you just shattered their confidence.
Brock, Palmeiro, Eckersly, Dylan Cease…. and Cam Smith (and two guys the Cubs might have DFA’d) for Kyle Tucker is the worst ever? No way.
I would have let Jed-eye Hoyer go, but this is just hyperbole.
No guarantee that Cam Smith would have been good with the Cubs. No guarantee that Shaw still won’t be a better player than Smith. I still think keeping Caissie, Alcantara, Horton, Wiggins and Ballesteros were good moves. I liked the Padres’ moves for example, except for trading Leo De Vries, which I think was a mistake, and was a windfall for the Sacramento A’s.
To be honest, I thought trading Jackson Ferris and Zyhir Hope for Michael Busch was a worse trade than Smith for Tucker. Paredes was just Christopher Morel 2.0. Michael Busch has pleasantly surprised me but a big market team can get a solid free agent 1B and left handed pitching like Jackson Ferris is worth keeping. I though trading DJ Herz and Kevind Made for Jeimer Candelario was a worse trade than Smith for Tucker, although with Herz getting injured no one is whining about it. Cubs will be no worse than the second of three wild cards. Cubs are better than the Reds (for now, until the Reds young pitching is fully ready) and IMHO better than the Mets. Brewers are the best NL regular season team but I still like the Dodgers, Phillies and Cubs, in that order as the teams with the best shot to make the WS.
@Chris: Watch and learn.
i said they were BUILT to win the division. But I don’t remember saying they would exactly. But if i did say that it was a mistake.
@Alan53 I’ll watch, we will see who learns.
@Dogbone Since that claim hasn’t aged well, I applaud you for loudly still owning it
Kyle was an excellent change of scenery guy. I tried looking up his salary and came up empty. I believe it was in the 15 million range. That’s what the Cubs offered Rizzo. 45 million for 3. Rizzo walked over to the Yankees 60 for 3. One thing for sure at this point. Kyle is a professional hitter and rum producer.
I wonder how well Soroka will do in his free agency? That should be interesting.
Soroka should sign with White Sox as a relief pitcher, it suits him, and I mean no disrespect to White Sox fans
More like DL for butt hurt amirite?
no
Sigh
About sums it up. A lot to unpack there. Why would Hoyer make an all-in move like the trade for Tucker and then fold like a Lilly in a snowstorm when it was time to double down? Ok, maybe the controllable starters were unreasonably priced, but there were rentals that would’ve been better choices than Soroka- or in addition to him. Morton and Paddock, both looked great in their first starts for the Tigers. Both went 6 strong innings. And Morton would’ve brought extensive veteran playoff experience with him as well. It’s kinda unreal how he screwed this up…
Ironically, the only one who doubled down was Ricketts when he extended him.
Morton was the guy I thought was a perfect fit as the eventual #4, and Hoyer’s former aide Scott Harris landed him instead.
Whoever advised Jed that Soroka was ok should be fired. (It’s too late to fire Jed.)
You hit it. There were better options available than Soroka. I can understand, to a point, not going after the top line, controlled starters due the extreme costs. That’s why none were traded. As you stated, Morton, Paddock could have been had. Instead, the Cubs obtained a player who had a long injury history, no real post season experience and a drop in velocity. Like the famous line in the movie Cool Hand Luke…..If that’s how you wants it. Well you gets it.
Nice acquisition jed! Really deserved that extension.
The easy explanation is that Jed Hoyer is an idiot.
The easy explanation is correct.
To be more precise, he is an idiot for trading for a soft tosser with an injury history who has not been good for years, in the first place.
The team is about to go into free fall because of Hoyer’s stupid approach and bad decisions.
for Hoyer’s empire, the writing was on the wall long before this deadline. He has been making ill-fated decisions like this for 5 seasons.
The extension was an endorsement of failure.
Hopefully seeing Kyle Tucker in Yankee pinstripes will solidify this realization for Cubs fans.
@blah: Would love to see Strikeout Tucker playing for anyone else. But Hoyer might just be dumb enough to sign that overrated prima donna.
@Alan – that is one weird take. Tuckers 13.8 stirkeout % is in the 88th percentile, or to put it another way, only 21 players in all of baseball have struck out less frequently than Tucker. He is one of the rare players that walks more than strikes out and I only counted two ballplayers that struckout less then him and hit for more power (ISO), Jose Ramirez and Cody Bellinger.
I get having reservations about being the high bidder on him, but not liking him because of the strikeouts is pretty out there.
@padre: Yeah, I know, he walks a lot. And I suppose he doesn’t strike out all that much. But he sure grounds out to the right side enough, and it’s been a couple of months since he has driven in runs or hit homers at even the pace of a mediocre hitter. He just has not been successful for the Cubs. Harry used to say of good hitters: “He’s a hitter, not a walker.” Tucker is a walker, not a hitter. He is way, way worse than his stats, and they aren’t very good. He is a drag on the lineup. Let him be some other team’s overpay.
Alan, Harry use to say a lot of things.
He’s still in the top 25 hitters in all of baseball this season despite being in a slump.
5 seasons? Try 8.
Hoyer has made himself quite a career of riding the coattails of Theo Epstein. He’s been on his own for 5 years now without a playoff appearance to his name and his ineptitude has been exposed.
Luckily for him, Cubs owner Tom Ricketts has been checked out ever since he crossed World Series off his bucket list, and extended Hoyer because it was easier than finding a replacement.
Oh, and let’s not forget that his first move without his mentor was to non-tender Kyle f’ng Schwarber.
Nobody will ever forget. It’s discussed daily on Cub sites.
Do they discuss the trades of Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo as well? Because Schwarber would have been in the same boat with them.
@frankf perhaps you are forgetting that after the Cubs so foolishly non tendered schwarber, there was an epic bidding war for his services that resulted in….a 1 year 7 million dollar deal. That is less than he received in 2020 through arbitration.
Kyle became a free agent and couldn’t even get as much as he would have gotten with the Cubs through arbitration. Every team in the league missed out on what Schwarber has become. might as well go all the way back to when he was drafted and mock the teams that passed on him if we are going to go full captain hindsight
Cubs fans hate hoyer. We’ve known he was trash for years.
Why are Cubs fans complaining about Tucker?? His stats look pretty robust to me and penciling out to match his highest bWAR season. I don’t know what more he needs to be doing … a guy can only play to his capacity and he seems to be doing that…unless I’m missing something?
I agree tucker isnt the problem..the inability at front office to get another starter is..the yankees basically aquired almost a fourth of there roster at the deadline..deals can get done if you have the right people in place to make deals..it sure feels like jed isnt respected or liked all that much by other teams..the art of making any deal has alot to do with how people view you.
We’re not complaining about Tucker. At least I’m not. I’m complaining about the idiotic deal that brought him here. Trading 2 viable bats and one long term prospect plus a P for a 1 year dear rental. That was what I’m complaining about;
I like Kyle Tucker, but although he was crucial to the Cubs early season sucess, trading Isaac Paredes and Cam Smith and jettisonning Cody Bellinger for one year of his services was not a wise move.
Bellinger is having a better year than Tucker. Chicago would have been best off doing nothing and putting Cody in rf.
Coming from a guy who wanted to keep Bellinger, Bellinger is NOT having a better year than Tucker.
Bellinger is having a really good year but it’s not on Tuckers level. Tucker, who’s having an off year in the power department, is still going to finish with a 5.5-6 WAR.
Drasco, we’ll never agree so let’s stop talking about this. I think WAR is a mathematical construction that means literally nothing as a measure of a player’s value. You think I am an ignorant dinosaur for holding that opinion. Fair enough. Let’s stop wasting each other’s time.
Alan, I wasn’t talking to you to begin with but yes, you are an ignorant dinosaur for not understanding WAR.
And yeah, WAR is a mathematical construct, just like batting average, on base percentage, slugging and OPS. WAR is literally the measure of a players value, but you said it best when you said you were ignorant for not understanding it.
Drasco, I understand the formulae for WAR, and I understand that they are fundamentally based on subjective and selective judgments. They do not measure countable or arithmetic things. But there is no need for us to discuss this further.
That’s okay. You must have been a theater major.
It’s funny that you say you understand WAR, then follow that comment by proving you don’t understand it. Or maybe you just don’t value getting on base, running the bases well or defense. Maybe all that confuses you.
But keeping saying “no need to discuss this further” vs spending time to understand one of the most important stats as it relates to player value and impact to a team.
WAR is fundamentally based on a subjective judgment of what replacement level is–and that corrupts all the further valuations.
As for “getting on base,” Tucker’s season pretty much proves that a walk is NOT as good as a hit. He walks all the time, and has little impact on the team’s success.
Jesus Christ what a stupid, stupid comment.
Cubs are 65-47
Scored the second most runs in baseball
Suzuki, already has more RBIs than he’s ever driven in.
If you don’t think that is impacting team success well, then, you are a moron (which is pretty evident at this point).
Also, if you think all the data that MLB has compiled as to what league average/replacement level is subjective then, again, moron.
Just admit you don’t understand it so you ignore it.
@Drasco: I’m not sure which comment you are referring to, but I guess it doesn’t matter. I seem to have annoyed you. You have resorted to name calling.
I suspect what has so irritated you is that, on some level, you know I’m right–and that threatens your roto-balling sense of self. You should not be so vulnerable.
I remain an optimist, though: I think that maybe, just maybe, Tucker or Suzuki might do something tonight as old-fashioned, as retrograde, as un-analytic, as drive in a run.
You know, the way Ike Collins and Bryce Turang do almost every game.
Not all walks are created equal.
Agreed.
Well, SOB, Tucker’s stats may be “pretty robust”–by some measures–but his performance has been lacking. He had a hot streak early in the season where he was hitting the ball squarely and driving in a lot of runs, but his rbi total since about mid-May has been meager. He has had one home run since July 1, and speaking of home runs, he had 23 in 78 games last season; this season he had 18 in 110. He is “on pace” for 26 this season, and we were told he was a cinch for 35-40, or more. He walks a lot, but he could help the team more if he *didn’t* have such a good eye, and drove some of those pitches that are an inch outside or inside. And, while I realize that hits can be “big” at obvious times and not-so-obvious times, he never gets the obvious ones; if a player is a star, shouldn’t he do star things now and then? Like a walk-off hit or homer in the bottom of the ninth? A go-ahead rbi in a tight game?
He has been an ordinary player for the Cubs this season–about as good as the 2024 version of Bellinger, maybe a bit less good than that. And all of that with his nose so far up in the air that it’s no wonder he can’t hit. Hoyer has made many mistakes, but re-signing Tucker to a big contract, or any contract, would be the worst yet.
Why are Cubs fans complaining about Tucker??
=========================
It’s probably not so much Tucker as the fact that they traded away Paredes & Cam Smith so that they could upgrade from Bellinger’s 3.2 bWAR to Tucker’s 4.6 bWAR. That extra 1.4 WAR is not enough to offset 3 years of Paredes and 6 years of Cam.
@JoeBrady: It’s partly that, but it’s also that, if you watched the Cubs every day, you would be surprised at how un-impactful Tucker has been. The bWAR figure is misleading. He walks a lot, and that inflates his stats, but he has not been the “transformative”–that is the word Cubs media used when he was acquired–presence in the lineup we were led to expect. Somehow he has hit only one home run since July 1. So it’s partly that he has not been all that good. There are no-names on the Brewers who have been more valuable to their team; hence the NL Central standings. The IDEA that Tucker is a superstar is in conflict with the REALITY that he isn’t.
Alan, one thing backing up your assertion about Tucker not being a star and not doing ‘star’ things is his track record in the postseason. Talk to any Astros fan and their voice changes pitch and their eyes shift downward when discussing Tucker’s futility at the plate at the most crucial times. I hope for the Cubs sake he can shake that reputation and prove otherwise this year, if they make it (I’m sure they will.)
did Hoyer even look at medicals?
Soroka has a +6 war but most of that is from one season.
They’ll unfortunately give him another 2 year extension.
Did you even read the article? They even ran him thru an MRI. Sometimes, players just get injured. Any complaints about Boyd? He’s a soft tosser with a long injury history. I bet you were really angry when they signed him.
Give citizen a rest
Good point. That’s likely why Hoyer obtained Soroka. Hoyer was lucky rolling the dice on Boyd and some other rolls he took. He squeezed as much juice as he could out of guys like Flexen. Hoyer felt lucky and took a chance. Didn’t work out at least to this point in time. My issue is there were better options likely to be had at face value like Morton, Paddock or Kelly. Vets that had post season experience and are established staters.
Did hoyer even read the Medicals? Hoyer only shows up when his job is on the line. 5-6 nothing.
They looked at luzardo’s medical and they said no thanks. Now look at what he’s doing with the Phil’s and bound for the playoffs. The cubs medical people need replacement also for supplying cubs bad information.
Who are the people on the Cubs’ medical staff?
Moe, Larry and Curly. Hoyer, Hawkins and Ricketts.
The Cubs already have two pitchers (Boyd and Horton) in the starting rotation whose innings have to be carefully managed going forward. That’s why the trade for Soroka was so frustrating to begin with. Jed just added another guy with the same issue. And here we are.
I’m not cubs fan or a supporter of Jed, don’t have an opinion whether he’s a good gm or not. Not sure why I have to qualify anything before saying this but generally I think it helps the discussion.
How many other teams got starters? Aren’t most teams in a similar situation as the cubs? Like everyone seems to have starters with limit caps due to young arms or injury concerns. The whole sport seems to run out of starting pitching depth around this time of year, which is why everyone loads up on RP at the deadline.
I don’t really have an answer to the issue in the sport either. Because the entire sport is fascinated with spin rates and velocity it’s leading players to train in a way that leads to more injuries. I would personally make rule changes that would force teams to develop pitchers who can throw longer and get away from the one inning RP. I would start with 4 batter minimum rule and expand to 5 in two years, two years after that 6 batter minimum. Basically hoping you get a starter pitching 6 innings, than a set up guy 2 innings and closer for the last inning.
You’re right that not many other teams acquired impact starting pitchers. The Rangers got Merrill Kelly. Maybe the Blue Jays caught lightning in a bottle with Shane Bieber. But if Mike Soroka is the best you can do, why even bother? I would have rather seen Jed use his precious prospects on another relief pitcher instead.
I think beiber could be Soroka or put up sandy alcantara numbers. Jays fans think he’s an ace. And might return to form but it was a risk they took, I’m surprised Kelly didn’t fetch a better return given his numbers and his salary. All the other starters who were available came with giant worts. Kelly wasn’t highly sought after by some teams because of his stuff I just heard on a podcast.
I’m a big defender of these gms using analytics but there seems to be such surplus value in innings eaters who just get outs in todays baseball of high velocity, high spin rates high strikeout rate pitchers, they all injured or a injury waiting to happen. Give me Eric Lauer and Kelly and get me into the playoffs with a bullpen 6 guys deep and let’s roll the dice.
but there seems to be such surplus value in innings eaters
============================
It depends on the team. My RS have a good 1-2-3. I’d have liked another #2, but I’m not sure I’d want to pay up. If May and Matz are no more than mediocre, that’s fine.
Totally agree Mob Boss Dad, take the total prospect value of what was spent on Soroka, Rogers and Kittridge (who is fine, but not a difference maker) and some really valuable closers were traded for not much more. Maybe higher ceiling guys, sure, but Duran and Helsley did not bring massive returns for their value- particularly Duran when you factor in the control. Biggest whiff of the deadline for Jed. He clearly was negotiating w Twins on Ryan bc right after the Castro deal was announced, there were grumblings that the Red Sox were after Ryan. Jed cheaped out and the Sox tried to swoop in. After the Tucker deal, Jed needed to land Saurez/Kelly/Gallen or Castro/Ryan/Duran if he wanted to make a deep postseason run. Instead, now the Cubs, if lucky enough to get into Oct, will have to compete against stocked teams like the Pads, Mets, and Phillies- all with beefed up, lockdown bullpens- how postseason games are won these days. NOT w retreads like Keller, Kittridge, Rogers and Pomeranz. GTFOH.
@ Robert-5,
Back at you. You’re definitely correct about the weakness of the Cubs relief corps relative to other teams likely to make the postseason. Not a big fan of Zac Gallen, but I would’ve been very happy if the Cubs front office had been able to acquire either combination of players you mentioned. After getting Kyle Tucker (who’s playing hurt?) and likely having him only this year, Jed really needed to go all-in but instead chickened out and made just a few half-assed moves instead, one of which has already blown up in his face. He needs to be more like Dave Dombrowski, who never falls in love with his prospects. Dude never seems to have a hard time finding a job, either.
You can’t prevent pitchers from trying harder or using max effort, especially if it is financially lucrative for them to go all out. Maybe there are other ways to manage their arms by limiting innings pitched in high school, college ball. Add more rest days. But telling a guy not to throw so hard or try spinning it less doesn’t seem natural.
I’m aware of that, that’s why you gotta change rules to forced teams to train them differently.
Needs to be a way to make it harder for teams to send down a RP with options who just pitched who pitched well.
Teams are taking advantage of optional RP who have their service time stalled regardless of it their effective or not.
I think by changing it to a 4 batter min first and eventually getting to a 6 batter min that would solve some of the optional RP service issues
you gotta change rules to forced teams to train them differently.
—————
I don’t think that can work. If I’m trying out for my HS team, I’d be throwing as hard as I could. If I were vying for a college scholarship, I’d be going all-out. If I was trying to make the pros out of ST, I’d be going all-out.
That’s fine you’ll blow out before making it to the pros. Once teams reward durability again the rewiring will begin at other levels.
Jed isn’t the GM. Carter Hawkins is the GM.
Yeah right.
Wow! I thought the GM was that jovial, elderly gentleman who pours beers along the 3rd base side at Wrigley.
I have an answer to the issue. Minor league pitchers are not developed in the minors. Prospects reach the majors barely averaging 5 innings per start. Then they are asked to pitch longer per game, in a longer season. If they don’t start teaching efficiency, and continue to count pitches (because that has been so effective at reducing injuries /s) this problem will continue.
Did the Nationals pull the old Tampa move ? Sure he was healthy, what a hoot.
Chris Archer?
Sign Chris flexen to take his spot!
Nah it’ll be Stroman.
Make them fight over it with Noah Syndergaard as the referee.
Welcome back Chris Flexen
On his birthday too. That’s like an extra gut punch.
Cubs don’t understand it’s a 6 month season, but give out extensions like they’ve already won a WS. Choking at its finest.
So they just released a pitcher with a $1.5M salary and arbitration eligible for another year after trading for a pitcher with a lengthy health history AND a $9M salary? He was pulled after 3.1 innings in his last start with Nats! Why? Nuts and Bolts….Nuts and Bolts, Cubs got screwed!
The kids…they called him Mr. Glass.
Tyler Glass Now
Oldy but moldy
Soroka whose velocity has been down his last few starts and then the Cubs trade for him which adds to the facts that Jed Hoyer is an idiot and a pawn of ownership. As other teams who are serious about contending added at the trade deadline Hoyer and the Cubs, who said they are “all in” do practically nothing.
Their explanation for not making the playoffs will be interesting
Mark prior wasn’t available as 1st choice
It seemed pretty evident from Hoyer’s trade deadline that he took an approach of backloading the rotation with 4-5-long relief type of pitchers, figuring that it was likely some of the current rotation hurlers were going to either regress because of workload or just the bad luck of injuries… and once Taillon and Assad made their returns to the line-up, they’d have tons of insurance sitting in the bullpen. Unfortunately, the recently acquired insurance pitcher needs his spot covered by pre-existing insurance lol. It was like Hoyer figured since he couldn’t acquire a surgeon, he’d cobble together an impressive first-aid kit. He just didn’t think he’d have to dig deep into it quite yet. Mike Tyson sure wasn’t referring to an MLB scenario when he said, “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth,” but that is where Counsell and Hoyer find themselves- having, yet again, to adapt to challenges.
I’m less concerned about the state of the starting rotation or the relief corps (which has been crapping the bed lately but still performing waaaaay better than anybody had a right to expect), and far more worried about the ongoing listlessness of the offense. Tucker’s hand may not be injured enough for rest but seems to be affecting him, PCA is maybe feeling the weight of his first true MLB season, and Suzuki seems to be waiting on things to improve on their own. That’s a problem, because if we can’t rely on those three, then the offensive burden falls on players that aren’t really cut out to carry it, like Happ and Swanson and Hoerner. Hoerner has been outstanding lately, but he’s not gonna be the driving force of any offense.
Normally I’d be like, hey, it’s okay, they’re in a slump, they’ll break out, but if the problem is rookie exhaustion and lingering injuries, that’s not something that goes away until the off-season.
Random observations:
They don’t seem very aggressive on the base paths lately, but that could be the result of match-ups. Just seems like the Cubs need to get back to manufacturing runs.
The Castro pick-up looks really good so far.
Very good analysis. I’m not a Cubs fan, but with my scoreboard watching as a Brewers fan I have see more Cubs than usual. I think what you said about PCA really feeling that weight of his first full season is spot on. He’s tremendous but he’s had some head scratching plays of late. Dropping the fly ball against the Crew and then the pickoff on first late in the Reds game just for a few examples. He will get right and continue improving.
I hate that I find myself typing this, but it is enjoyable to watch the Brewers play, which I do for the same kind of Cubs-motivated scoreboard watching. Even worse, I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for Milwaukee teams just because- back in the day- you could purchase a $20 round trip Amtrak from Chicago to Milwaukee, and so I got up there a bunch, plus sometimes drove, and really got to love that town. Even saw a few Brewers games at the old County Stadium, including one (and I’m pretty sure I’m correctly remembering the details about this) where a bunch of people nearby where I was sitting in the bleachers got into a fistfight over the results of the Sausage Race on either a D.A.R.E. or M.A.D.D. theme night. Lol good times.
Sorry for whatever did or didn’t happen, but I’m not reading this
Stoma’s on his way to the Windy City!
In 2016 the Padres traded Colin Rea to the Marlins as part of a multi-player trade for Andrew Cashner. Rea tore his UCL in his only start with the Marlins and afterward the Marlins were livid and approached the Padres about a “deal back” and Rea would be sent back to the Padres with Luis Castillo being sent back to the Marlins. Maybe Hoyer ought to pursue the same tactic depending on the extent of Soroka’s injury
Sokoras velo was down the last few games and he had an MRI before the trade. It also wasnt a rushed deadline day trade, as it was completed the day before. There was time to review medicals and they either didnt or they did and thought it was good ’nuff. I agree with others that even if there was no injury that if they couldnt do better than Sokora that they shouldnt have even bothered and kept the prospects.
Well Hoyer is just a keep the prospects GM, maybe could of had Kelly if he only was willing to give up some better prospects than what was offer, what’s the old saying when you are only willing to give up low bar prospects you get a low bar starting pitcher. Hoyer has only himself to blame for the Soroka deal.
Sucks for everyone involved.
Possible, but highly unlikely, the Nats knew he was injured when they traded him. They don’t want to blow their respect like that.
He had a recent MRI. If it showed anything that would have predicted this, everyone would have known.
The Cubs, almost certainly, had access to all available information – his trending velocity, the MRI, biometric data?
Sometimes [stuff] just happens.
But why trade for a guy who isnt that good AND has recently lost significant velocity off his fastball?! Makes no sense, this wasn’t some sneaky his underlying numbers show it was due to bad defense or being unlucky- he’s just not very good.
All while Adrain Houser is just sitting there taking paychecks on the South Side. Cubs just got to experience how well he’s pitched this season, and Jed was too gunshy to make a trade w the Sox after being abused in every trade he’s made w them.
R5
“But why trade for a guy who isnt that good AND has recently lost significant velocity off his fastball?! Makes no sense”
He was cheap?
They thought the had a fix?
I just think it’s unlikely that the Nationals knew that he was injured to the degree that he’d have to go on the IL at the time of the trade
#bamboozled
Hoodwinked
“They didn’t land on Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on them”.
Nats flying that W flag on that trade as well
Everyone said I was the one who was an idiot. How about now? Now it’s too late, He’s here. At least Caissie is still here.
We had a front-row seat to his mediocrity when the Sox signed him last year, but still, people doubt us.
Chalk it up to blind Cubbie optimism I guess.
@Palehosed85: Or to Hoyer’s incompetence. The stereotype that Cubs fans are silly optimists who don’t know much about baseball and just like to go to the ballpark and drink is something of a cherished urban legend among Sox fans and other mean-spirited people, but it isn’t so. We know exactly what is going on, have all along, but have no power to change it.
Aloha uncle, I think if Jed couldn’t get a healthier and more dominant type of starter, eg ace through say #3, by the deadline, then get a good reliever that can give you more than an inning. If not, don’t trade just to make a move. Boy, the you know what is going to hit the fan big time if this outing today for Soroka was his only one! Mahalo
Cassie is here because they need a replacement for Tucker. Cubs have the money to pay for Tucker but won’t spend it.
@uncle: Tucker has been so bad that it is reasonable at this point to conclude that he is hurt–either the hand or the ankle or something else we don’t know about. They should out him on the injured list and bring up Caisssie to play right field. He will strike out some and have adjustments to make, but he will probably be better than Tucker, and it will soon become apparent that this is a lost season anyway. Let’s see what he can do.
🤣
We have been trying to reach you about your pitcher’s extended warranty.
I never understood waiting till the deadline to try to make a deal when you have to compete with so many other teams..the cubs starting rotation has been a problem all year basically because of injuries..they should of been trying to find a viable starter back in early july all the same non contenders were non contenders then..offering prospects then when there wasn’t so many other teams offering up there own prospects would of giving them a better chance at getting a deal done imo.
Teams definitely want to trade for players earlier but the teams trading away quality talent are the ones waiting for the market to heat up and have more buyers drive up the costs. The Nats have no incentive to rush a trade in June, for instance.
Agree that the deadline can drive up prices as injuries mount and teams compete to acquire players, but holding onto pitchers on expiring contracts can prove quite costly if they get injured themselves, or say, suspended for PEDS domestic violence or gambling.
If a team gets a solid offer for a trade piece, it’s risky not to take the deal in hopes of being greedy in another month or two.
Jed assembled a rotation that was built for April not October. He justified it by saying they had the assets and flexibility to be aggressive at the deadline, but in the end he wasn’t. Regardless of whether the warning signs were there on Soroka or not, the team entered the deadline with 2 playoff caliber starters and left the deadline with 2 playoff caliber starters. That’s just not good enough. And it’s a shame because this is a good team. But they’re not a great team, and they definitely won’t spend to both re-sign Tucker while also improving the pitching staff. They should’ve went all in for the one year they actually have Tucker.
I agree this a good team..and for soroka..he has been on jeds radar for a while..this isnt the first time he tryed to aquire him..but soroka wasnt the guy they needed..i have no issue with him trying to get a guy he likes..but he should of done that after the season..not putting the fate of a real nice season on the shoulders of a guy that is injured alot and all the signs were screaming something is wrong with him right now
That arm didn’t just “pop” ask anyone that’s had shoulder surgery and they will tell you it was hurting LONG before they had a operation
The SP market at deadline was so thin, yet too overpriced relative to quality that few were dealt.
Look at longshot to be traded Gore as example-they were apparently squeezing for better return than vastly superior Crochet. The postseason SP matchups could be quite meh around baseball with almost 2 months left/so many having setbacks.
Unfortunately, the sellers know that there will be more buyers closer to the deadline, so they aren’t willing to sell yet.
In most cases your probably right..but still shouldnt stop you from trying..which with jed he openly said in earlier in july when asked about trying to get some help they wanted to wait and see how things would played out with guys on the roster who were injured on the mend….so at the time he wasn’t looking to upgrade….it never hurts to have an extra starter at any point in the season..instead he chose to go with flexen and hope assad would be back..and thats what could cost them deeply
Regardless of what he said publicly (and it did not give the best look in hindsight), I sincerely doubt he and his staff just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Phone calls keeping in touch with other teams still occur. Scouting still occurs. If Flexen had rebounded, or Assad was healthy, this conversation wouldn’t be happening. You should always hope that the top guy in the organization will express some amount of confidence in the current roster.
@stymeedone: I think the attitude you express is somewhat Pollyanna-ish, but I admit that might be just me being overly cynical. But one thing I feel compelled to say in response to your comment is that Assad is not a good pitcher. When he finally deigns to come back from the injury that cost him four months of the season and that was a result of his being too fat, he will be hit hard. Apologists will say, well, he’s shaking off the rust, whatever that might mean, but the reality is that he has always been borderline at best, and usually worse than that.
When you food shop with the discount third world street vendors, don’t be surprised when you’ll get the case of the runs!
The nationals are laughing themselves silly at getting two prospects for this former pitcher. He has been horrible years. This is a classic example of how GM’s get fired.
They are better with Cade Horton and Ben Brown being full time starters anyway
I don’t mind the Soroka trade package as much as the evaluation of Soroka career injury history. You needed a guy that could go out there every 5 days and had a high GO ratio and this teams prospect list has plenty of second tier players they could have dealt to get that pitcher.
Tough break for the young man.
Cubs are seriously having the worst luck right now. Half this rotation is on the IL. Tucker, Suzuki, Busch and PCA are all slumping at the same time.
Neither PCA or Tucker are slumping at the moment.
The Cubs were unwilling to meet the asking price for an impact starter, which was stupid. The Cubs may not have given up Caissie or Wiggins in a trade but they did trade serious talent for some very non-needle moving players.
Trading Ryan Gallagher for a rental, IMO, was beyond stupid.
See my post above. The Cubs have great scouts and a scouting department that find a lot of talent. Unfortunately the POBO doesn’t know how to use that talent or trade it for worthy talent. His contracts are horrible, His budgeting skills are horrible, And he doesn’t promote his own players. Scouting directors have been fleeing for years and going elsewhere because why bother if your players never get to play? The one great thing about Breslow when he was here was pitchers flew through the system to never be seen again.
Pete has struck out like 8 of last 10 and took a heater off the elbow then got doubled up. Maybe not slumping but a rough stretch to say the least. He’ll be fine tho, just the grind. Tucker is for him slumping, no way he bunts if he wasn’t. Maybe the finger or that foul off the leg has him off. After missing a lot of last season that fb could mentally mess with ya.
I remember when Soroka came up with the Braves, thought he was a future Hall of Famer, just could not stay healthy. I see all these people bashing him, do you actually know how hard he has worked to get to this point. Soroka will be back, young man has never quit, it’s not in his DNA.
Braves dodged a bullet by avoiding a reunion
I don’t think anybody here is bashing Soroka. Most people are bashing Jed Hoyer for acquiring him with the belief that it would significantly improve the Cubs’ chances in the postseason.
No, one thing we DON”T want to do is bring back Marcus Stroman..
Medium market brewers will win division by 10 games over large market cubs!
Can we give an extension to hoyer on top of the extension we just handed out?
Do u realize that the cubs are now only 3 games up on the reds for the final wildcard spot? It is. not only possible but more and more likely that your cubs finish outside looking in. What a fold that would be!
I think you’re numbers are a little off at the moment, Bruce, but your prediction is correct: the Cubs will not make the postseason. The playoff teams from the NL will be the Dodgers, Padres, Brewers, Reds, Mets, and Phillies. The Cubs will be the 7th of the 6 playoff teams.
Geez, Louise, the Cubs will be 3.5 games up on the Reds if the Reds sweep the series.
Every Cub fan knew he wouldn’t be enough. But hey, Jed locked down his extension already, so why shoot for more than 83 wins? Had plenty of luxury tax space and prospects and came away with 2 innings of a #5 depth starter. Disaster class stuff.
This is just disheartening. Every year it’s the bullpen, and this will be a possible third year in a row of the team falling off the rails. Eff it all…
Pearson has had many chances and not done well. I doubt he will do much better this time, but I suppose we’ll see.
I didn’t think it could worse, and then they recalled Pearson again.
Duh! Surprise Surprise, he’s been on the I.L. more than the active roster his whole career.
Hardly matters with soroka. Watching brewers up here in Wisconsin son take out braves again and while they don’t go for homers like cubs, they put ball in play and hit with runners on base which cubs do not do. Ex-Sox Vaughn now that he’s away from Sox should be comeback player of year.
ESPN just reported that cubs knew about siroka injury history prior. Ultimate stupidity! This team from hoyer on down may still make playoffs but that’s about it!
Yup seen that they knew his injury history and worst yet admitted they knew his velocity was down as well but felt good taking the risk..wonder how they going feel knowing they might have just tanked a real good team that with a lil help could of been a contender…barring getting real lucky with someone they call up..or luck into someone on the waiver wire who pitches above there potential.this team will go exit the playoffs quickly and a nice season was for nothing
@justme: It’s worse than that. They aren’t going to make the postseason.
It doesn’t matter what PECOTA or ZIPS says at this or that point of the season if your supposed best hitters can’t hit.
Both hoyer and rickets happy to see tuckers price go down!
But are they?
If Tucker signs for $450+ million they can say too much.
But if another team signs Tucker for say 11 years $330 million Cubs look really bad not getting it done.
I think Tucker will get something in the middle of that.
Until Tucker shows me I’m wrong, I’m going to saay the Cubs shouldn’t sign him at any price. He just doesn’t hit. He doesn’t drive in runs. His at-bat in the first inning of Tuesday night’s game shows me all I need to see.
Now, I get it that we don’t evaluate a player on a single game, or even on a whole bunch of games. But except for a relatively brief hot period in April-May, he has been unable to produce all season. And he was supposed to be a superstar, a “transformative presence in the lineup,” a “difference-maker,” and all that public relations nonsense. He has fallen so far short of expectations that those expectations need to be reevaluated.
Some of you are young and have never been here before, so you might not recognize what is happening. What is happening is that the Cubs are choking and have fallen out of the division race and will soon fall out of the wild-card race. There are many reasons why, and Tucker’s inability to drive in basically ANY runs is the biggest one.
I would like to see the results of a fan poll asking if ricketts extending Jed before the trade deadline was dumb and premature.
Of course cubs fans everywhere will stilll be overjoyed when and if this cubs team still back into playoffs not due at all what Jed and ricketts have done with this team.
I suppose the Cubs have a chance to win today Wednesday. The Superstar Nobody Ever Saw, the automatic out Tucker, is not in the lineup.
I think Tucker like parades before him is playing like he doesn’t wish to be here.