Manager Terry Francona is the latest member of Cincinnati’s organization to downplay the possibility of trading starting pitching. Francona said on the Baseball Isn’t Boring podcast that he wasn’t anticipating a Hunter Greene trade. “I don’t think those things are gonna (happen)…pitching is too hard for us to acquire through free agency…we gotta keep Hunter on the mound,” Francona said in a clip relayed by Chatterbox Sports.
President of baseball operations Nick Krall offered a similar sentiment last month, downplaying the idea that the Reds would move players on the pitching side. Led by Greene, Cincinnati’s starters ranked sixth in the National League in ERA and third in strikeouts. Only the Phillies, Diamondbacks, and Braves got more innings from their starting pitchers.
Greene battled a groin injury multiple times last season, but he was dominant when healthy. He set career-best marks in xFIP (3.27) and SIERA (3.06) while throwing harder than ever before. Greene’s heater averaged 99.5 mph in 2025, a 1.9 mph jump from 2024. Among pitchers who threw at least 100 innings, Greene ranked fourth in swinging-strike rate and sixth in K-BB%.
The most notable development for Greene last season was how often he was in the strike zone. He posted a strong 68.6% strike rate and a career-low 6.2% walk rate. Greene had never recorded a season with a strike rate above 65% or a walk rate below 9%. The improved command helped him maintain a lower pitch count and work deeper into games. He notched quality starts in 11 of 19 outings. Greene had 13 quality starts in 2024, but it took him 26 appearances to get there.
If the Reds were to put Greene on the market, he would certainly fetch a handsome return. The 27-year-old signed a six-year, $53MM extension in 2023. The deal includes a $21MM team option for 2029. Greene’s annual salary will rise in each of the next three seasons, but it’ll still be plenty affordable in the final year of the deal, even if the Reds (or another club) decline the team option.
Cincinnati has a stable of controllable starters beyond Greene. Andrew Abbott and Chase Burns have yet to reach arbitration. Nick Lodolo won’t hit free agency until 2028. Youngsters Rhett Lowder and Julian Aguiar only have a year of MLB service time apiece. Brady Singer is the only mainstay nearing free agency, as he’s in his final year of arbitration. The Reds can keep the majority of this group together for the foreseeable future if they want to.
Photo courtesy of Jayne Kamin-Oncea, Imagn Images.
Ok Red fans, it looks like you got plenty of SP, what else(or who do your realistically target) do you need to get better?
They need relievers, they need Elly to be consistent, they need McClain and Stephenson and CES and Marte to be healthy and consistent, they need outfielders that can hit
It could simply be talk to increase trade leverage. Of course it’s true that it’s tough for a team like the Reds to acquire free agent pitching but it’s because of that, they should look for younger pitching in return. One more injury and his value plummets. That’s what the Reds can’t afford. Pitching is risky for all but more so for teams with real payroll budgets. What kind of return could they get? I’m guessing two real young arm talents plus.
But the Reds pretty much can’t afford anything. Premier pitching and hitting are both expensive. I still think Duran + Campbell + Garcia would be more than fair for Greene.
Plus, there are a ton of swaps that make sense. Abreu for Lodolo, Casas for Singer, Duran + Casas for Burns. Campbell for Lowder. They have pitching and we have young, cheap hitters.
1. A closer or high leverage late inning right handed relief pitcher.
2. Two more left handed pen pitchers. One a higher leverage type and the other can be a minor league deal type.
3. A left handed power bat to hit cleanup everyday in the lineup.
4. A right handed bat everyday type that can be productive enough to bat 5th or 6th in the lineup.
They have roughly $25 million they can spend in free agency next year to get it. Ideally a lineup that looks like this to go along with our current starting pitching:
1. Friedl center field
2. Marte right field
3. EDLC shortstop
4. .850 ops type left handed free agent ? Position
5. .750 to .800 ops type right handed free agent
6. Steer 1st base/left field
7. Stephenson catcher
8. McLain/Lux 2nd base
9. K Hayes 3rd base if he can ops above .725 and if not Stewart or move Marte back to 3rd and get a right fielder for the 4th or 5th spot and a DH for the other.
Shannon that sounds great but they can’t get all of that for twenty mil, it pains me to say it but they should trade lodolo or Greene for like soderstrom if they can get it. I wouldn’t even worry about getting a closer until near the the deadline if they’re in contention and internal options aren’t working. Maybe even trade singer too for ward like everyone suggests, you can find fifth starter types easier than guys with 30+homer potential.
I don’t think we can get that either with that budget just saying what I think we need to be competitive. What we really need coming of a post season is for the payroll to increase from $115 million last year to $130 million in 2026. That would give us $40 million of wiggle room to get all that which should be doable.
2023 at the trade deadline I was frustrated we didn’t get a starting pitcher and I was on this board and other boards telling people who said we didn’t need a pitcher because we had good young pitchers that our pitchers “are what they are until they are something different”. What Greene & Lodolo were then was”were pitchers with era’s that started with 5. What they are now are studs and Greenes contract is one of the most valuable in baseball. That is why everybody wants to trade for him. Another saying I have is if you think you have something of value and getting something of equal value but from someone that really wants what you have then you will likely be making a bad deal.
I think we should keep Greene and Lodolo at the top of the rotation. Someday burns and Lowder might be top of the rotation types and from what I have seen they likely will be but might take a few years like it did Greene & lodolo. Yes 3-5 in a rotation is easy to come by but front line guys are not. I would be good with trading singer for say someone like Lowe of the rays who hit 30 home runs last year, has a year left on his deal like singer and for the same 2026 salary. I would also be good trading Abbott to the Red Sox for abreau, one of the players mentioned for Greene, who will still be league minimum like Abbott and the same team control.
Speaking of the rays & a closer they just declined a $7 million option on theirs and if we could sign him for that I think that would be a good move. However as you say we could go with closer by committee until the deadline if we have to chose between that and the offense we need. As for the deadline if we are out of it by then any of our starting pitchers would probably bring more overall value then than they would now.
Ryan OHearn was 803 ops and a LH hitter who would likely do well in Cincinnati in my opinion. Should be affordable and can play 1B/OF/DH
Stewart is already better than McLain or lux. He’s gotta play.
Stewart looked good but so did McLain two years ago
Exactly. From my POV 33% chance McLain is what he was in 2023, 33% chance he is what he was last season and 33% chance he is in between. That is why we need to keep lux in case after 6 weeks if McLain is what he was last season lux will need to be our everyday 2nd baseman.
Same with K Hayes. Except for one season when he had decent offensive production he has been a gold glove defender that can’t hit at a big league level. Seems like only a 20% chance he will be a viable option to keep in the lineup unless we sign someone like Schwarber and he replicates his past season to make up for the lack of offense production at 3rd base or let Stewart become the everyday 3rd baseman and the 60% chance he is what he was in September.
Heard someone mention Tyler Ward for Brady Singer. That makes sense to me
Teoscar Hernandez
He’s under contract and has an option for ‘28 as well. Dodgers aren’t moving him!
New owners
Money.
They made the playoff’s, that’s better then most teams going into the offseason. They should be Happy, I will be happy when the Texas Rangers go back to the playoffs, until then cry my a river!!!! lol
Your Rangers have a lot invested in the middle infield. Not saying they aren’t good players – especially Seager – but with everyone saying they are goibg to be very budget conscious its gonna be difficult to improve. And I really like CY. He knows what he’s doing but can only do so much w/o funds.
I read 68.6% Strike Rate as Strikeout Rate and nearly fainted… what scouts dream of! Haha
They need better defense, a power hitter (playing in homer central, they need someone who can actually take advantage of it), they need hitters that don’t think .240 is a stellar accomplishment, and they need situational hitting. Hayes at 3rd, and Steer playing 1st helped the defense there (Steer will probably move to the outfield for Stewart to play 1st, which is a step back on defense), but they, McLain, Friedl, and Stevenson need to get back on track with consistency at the plate. Marte’s hitting was better, and needs to continue improving, and Stewart needs to continue progressing like he has been. And… Elly needs to spend more time on baseball skills, and less trying to be a fashion statement. So, they need a power bat, rental utility guys who can hit a bit and play defense. Bullpen help…and all for under the minimum wage.
Why would the Reds trade Greene now ….?… A top of the rotation young star ,who is becoming an ace. Maybe 2 years from now , when that team option must be picked up. As a low budget team can only afford so much. Even so $21 million in 2029 for an ace will be a bargain . He would look great in a Red Sox uniform, don’t see it happening though.
Some would say that you trade Greene now so that you can compete better now. I don’t know if Greene should be the one to go, but you have the best rotation in BB, and could use some more hitting.
JB
I understand the thought. Good pitching is just so hard to find. Especially pitching you have locked up for a bit. If I’m the Reds I’m not dealing him just yet, not until you really have to pay him. They do need some offense to compete for a WS. They do have a great young rotation.
It’s impossible to argue having a good rotation. But imho, the cut-off is having a #5 that has some sort of shot at winning. They can be occasionally skipped, or you can rotate in different guys to get some wins from the slot. I don’t think you need a great #5.
That’s the depth you trade from. Cincy should make a move on whichever SP they have the least amount of faith in.
They’ll trade him…in 2028.
The rumors are most likely large market teams wet dreams.
His arm could be dead by then. Returning value may never be higher. The Rays compete most years by trading one year too soon as compared to one year too late.
It’s no use trying to console a depressing, insufferable, forever-woe-is-me type like “This one belongs to the Reds”
He muted me for that reason.
Why do you think it is that reason when there are so many other perfectly good reasons?
Sorry, I actually have no real problem with you, but I never let a good joke foundation go unbuilt.
The return may not be as great as people think, not until he has a completely injury free year. It hasn’t happened yet.
That could be true in that discussions haven’t been as worthwhile as they expected but it’s still better for some teams to transfer risk. Like I said previously, sometimes it’s better to deal one year too early as compared to too late.
Greene has about 4/60 remaining on his deal. Walker buehler got 1/21 this past offseason. He hasn’t been good or healthy since 21. Greene has tons of trade value
More importantly, trading controllable stars for prospects has never been a strong suit for reds. Some teams, like padres, pull these trades off frequently with success. Reds never win them. So no hurry unless you love the haul
Hunter is averaging 23 starts and almost 125 IP per season.
This is relatively normal for sp in last several years.
Trade Greene now. Get a home run hitter and/or a center fielder. He’s not the ACE of the team. The ACE would be able to pitch more than 12 games a year. Get rid of him before he completely disintegrates.
Maybe it’s just me but I think we have a good center fielder & leadoff hitter. Not a leadoff hitter like ohtani but a traditional leadoff hitter. Gets on base 36% to 37% of the time. Has speed on the bases although want utilized as much this year and about the only player I know of that can get 15 home runs and 15 bunt hits the same season.
If .261 with 14 home runs and 12 stolen is your idea of a leadoff hitter then more power to you. And before him, there was Johnathan India. Neither is a typical leadoff hitter, maybe hitting 5th, but not leadoff. Maybe they’ll try Sal Stewart next year, if Francona will play him at all. The Reds have no one on their roster who hit anywhere near .300, which should be the bare minimum. Not putting Freidl down, but he’s average at best in center field and .261 is pretty sorry for a leadoff hitter in my opinion.
Batting average is more important for a middle of the order hitter but .261 is still quite a bit better than average since ,261 was 30th in the league out of 73 qualifiers. More importantly for a leadoff hitter is on base which his .364 was 11th in the NL last year among 73 qualifiers.
The names ahead of him in ops like Schwarber, Matt Olsen, Freeman, Soto and Tucker hit middle of the order for their teams and even ohtani who does hit leadoff for the dodgers would bat 3rd or 4th for most any other team. The only ones that could be considered a traditional leadoff hitters with a higher on base than friedl are Marte of the snakes & tatis with padres but even those 2 on our current lineup would probably bat cleanup.
As for 14 home runs he hit 18 in 2023 playing everyday and missed a lot of time with injury in 2014. In fact he was the first player in 50 years in 2023 to hit 18 or more home runs and 18 or more bunt hits since 1973. Peg him in for 15 a year and if you are wanting someone who hits 25 in our current lineup they would bat cleanup. EDLC led the team last year with 23.
Stolen bases in 2023 with run happy David bell as manager friedl had 27 and finished 12th in the league. Franconia is opposite of bell in the run game thus the 12 in 2025 but he can score from first on a double to the fight field corner and from second on gap hits or left hand corner. He is not EDLC on the bases but would you prefer to move out leading home run hitter to leadoff and then have our best and one of the best on base guys in the league batting behind him?
“This one belongs to the Reds” is at it again with his big-mouth whining of big-market teams.
For an old career minor-league catcher, he sure cries like a grown baby on MLBTR.
Steinbrenner, put yourself in the shoes of a mid or small market club. Some big market fans are now complaining (myself included) in that LA has an advantage with Asian players. With the next CBA, my pipe dream wishes include a true hard floor/ceiling, limiting players from other leagues to one or two per and limiting deferral amounts. I’d also like to see tanking penalties to prevent multi-year rebuilding. Finally, I want the Ohtani rule removed and a hard limit on the number of pitchers. If you appear in a second game, you count as a pitcher.
You should be complaining about it too if you’re a Yankee fan cause yall look broke compared to dodgers and Mets. How does it feel to be out bid on yams and Soto ??
LA is the 20th largest economy in the world. Japan is the 4th. LA + Japen = Yankees being a second rate team
Starting pitching is only hard to find in the free agent market if you are a franchise that refuses to spend money.
Ryan OHearn makes sense for the Reds. He’s a lefty who found his footing in platoon role in Baltimore but was used more regularly as time went on and held his own fairly well. He’s a LH bat that could slot somewhere in the middle of the order and could do well with regular playing time and less as a platoon. Should be affordable for the Reds too.
All hail Tito!
Just throwing this out there to see what others think about the deadline acquisition of K Hayes? I get he is exceptional gold glove defense but seems like for a team pinching pennies $8 million a year for the next 4 years for a bat that is almost useless has really put us in a bind. That is the same as Greenes contract for next year.
I also feel like because of Hayes salary and not knowing if McLain will be his 2023 version or 2025 version that we have to keep lux as well. I think most teams have a gold glover that can’t hit hidden in a lineup but can’t have 2 .600 ops guys in a lineup.
McLain earned a chance to get some of what he had in 2023 but if his ops is sub .650 by the end of may lux becomes our everyday second baseman or if Hayes has an ops below .600 by then Stewart needs to be our everyday 3rd baseman assuming he is doing the first 2 months of next year he did September this past year. In that case Hayes becomes Candelario.
As it stands this offseason to get the power bat we desperately need we have $8 million less to work with and limited on what position that bat can play with Marte in right. DH, left field or first base if we move steer back to left after getting gold glove votes at first.
Not having a full time dh helps a little and with the defensive problems the reds have had I think I’m okay with Hayes. His bat only needs to be a little better to make his glove totally worth it. As far as lux goes I think he’s the real problem with the lineup, he often was the dh because he’s defensively limited and he doesn’t have the power to dh full time. I’d trade him for basically anything just to free up the ~5 million he’s gonna cost.
I don’t really know how the defensive metrics work so I could have some bad logic. At the deadline this year puzzles as to why we got Hayes instead of Suarez I think I noted that Hayes had 17 defensive runs saved at 3rd and Suarez had -7. Assuming a run is a run on defensive that is net 24. Also at that time Suarez had like 80 RBIs and Hayes had around 30. Both had about the same plate appearances so probably logged the same innings at 3rd so a plus 50 runs in that regard by Suarez.
Again if my logic is right on the defensive side that is net 25 total for Suarez. I think on the expected win/loss record 5 runs = an additional win so that would be Suarez +5 for 2/3 of a season or 7.5 for a full season I know that Suarez playing on a better team with more rbi opportunities and batting more middle of the order rather than 8th or 9th but that would not make up 7.5 runs especially since Suarez would be batting middle of the order no matter how good the team he played for and Hayes batting 8th or 9th no matter how bad the team is he played for. I also understand I am just measuring what they did before the deadline and Hayes hit a little better ( not much) after we acquired him and Suarez not as well after he was traded but up to that point that was the best measuring stick.
You’re trying to compare run value between RBIs and defensive runs? Yeah, those aren’t interchangeable in any way. 10 defensive runs = 1 WAR, and there’s no conversion between RBI and WAR because that’s not what RBI is measuring.
Lux doesn’t have a ton of value right now but packaging him with Singer for Duran might be attractive for Boston.
Reds struggle on the FA market. Plus Hayes is still young and his tools reflect a better hitter than he’s been in the past. Low risk/high reward type of player. Reds always seem to be paying someone who doesn’t play anyway.
He has been playing 6 years. Yes it can take a couple of years of lower production to learn to hit at a big league level to develop hit tools but is someone 28 years old and been playing 6 years hasn’t developed them they never will. He is what he is at this point, a defensive whiz that provides negative value at the plate. If fans are good with that then I accept their opinions but by my way of thinking I would prefer to spend limited resources on offense more than defense same as I would starting pitching over relief pitching. I feel like a pitching staff with a high k rate like ours the defense matters less than a pitching staff that pitches to contact.
The Reds knew what they were getting in Hayes – gold glove 3B with a .600 OPS ceiling. Barring injury he’s the Reds 3B no matter how poorly he performs at the plate.
IMO the spring training competition should be among McLain, Stewart, Steer and Lux for 3 spots – 1B, 2B and utility IF. They’re not going to let McLain or Stewart just sit on the bench – so I see the Reds optioning one of them if they have a terrible spring. If McLain’s bat has rebounded and Stewart continues to thrive then Lux is likely the odd man out – hopefully because the Reds will have also added an OF/DH bat or two.
I agree with that. Steer received gold glove votes at 1st and McClain is a good defensive second baseman. Unfortunately you are right about Hayes being in the lineup everyday because of his contract I just wish we hadn’t made that trade to put us in that situation but can’t cry over spilled milk.
I think steer plays somewhere either 1st or left and hopefully we can get a left handed power bat to play one of those or DH. That leaves McLain, Lux & Stewart for 2 positions 2nd base & 1st/DH/Left whichever two can produce the most offense. If McLain is the odd man out he will remain on the 26 man as the utility, the back up at short for EDLC and some spot starts at second against left handed pitchers. If Stewart is one of the 2 that becomes an everyday bat then he likely plays first or DH and steer goes to left. If Stewart is the odd man out he continues to bake & rake in Louisville. If lux is in he is the everyday 2nd baseman and if he is out could be traded or even non tendered.
The issue is we would have to decide on Lux before we could determine if McLain is the 2023 version, the 2025 version or something in between and if Stewart’s September results have staying power. Probably wouldn’t be able to know on either of those until 6 weeks into the season.
Lux will most likely be non tendered due to his salary and the fact they have three guys for those spots with one always out of the lineup.
When you really needed a thumper, getting Lux and Hayes last season made little sense.
Agree with that on Hayes and along with not increasing the payroll from 2025 is creating a dilemma this offseason. If we can get schwarber by non tendering lux then I am all for it but I don’t think they will get Schwarber even getting rid of lux.
Taking that into consideration we know what lux is. He is a significantly above average on base guy and a significantly below average power guy. We really don’t know what McLain or even Stewart is. If McLain is the 2023 version of himself then he is definitely the keeper, if McLain is the 2025 version then lux is an upgrade and if McLain is somewhere in between then he and lux a wash and McLain is the keeper because cheaper. Same with Stewart. Even though he had a good September is that enough sample size to say he is in the lineup every day going forward.
I don’t like the Hayes trade at the deadline and don’t like it know but it’s the reality of the moment.
Reply to TOBTTR. Gavin Lux hit .282/.361/.761 vs rhp (about 400PA) last year for $3.3MM- a bargain. He’ll be tendered or offered a deal.
I like it, but he’s had health issues. At worst, he’s an everyday player for $8M.
Damn, the reds got some good young pitching, they ain’t going away. It’s gonna be a dogfight in the division between the cubs, reds and brewers for years to come.
Despite his next contract, would Belli be a fair wish for Cinci fans? Strong defensively in the OF, not horrible at 1b, can smash some long balls from the left side of the plate…
Belli? Does that mean Bellinger? If so then absolutely because he would be the most productive hitter in the lineup by far with left handed 30 to 40 home run power which is what they need the most. They have some right handed hitters with decent 20 home run power like steer. Stephenson in a good year and several that might be 20 home run power but yet to be determined like Marte, McLain and Stewart. From the left side of the plate they have lux who gets on base well but absolutely no power, friedl who has 15 home run power but more of a leadoff than 5 thru 8 hitter and benson who has 20 maybe more home run power if he only faces right handed pitching.
The problem is like you say the contract. From what I am reading to get him intermediate term say 5 years will take at least $28 million a year and to get that price down to $25 million a year probably have to go 7 years and that is on the low end. What I have read on schwarber since he can’t play defense and a few years older he will go on the low end at $25 million a year for 4 which the reds should do but won’t because of lack of budget. Schwarber is an even much better hitter than bellinger and although not as good as Thome in their prime I think Schwarber will age as the same and Thome was still about the best DH in MLB into his late 30’s.
Either bellinger or schwarber would make up for the lack of production we have at third and possibly second base but with a $115 million payroll the reds would not be able to afford either. Looking like we will have to trade from our abundance of starting pitching depth but we probably won’t get someone that route that would make up for our lack of production at 3rd base.
I know starting pitching is hard to come by . That’s why we could use our surplus to aquire what is obviously hard for us to come by. A quality corner outfielder. It is that simple.
I am older, late 50’s and started as reds fan as a kid in the BRM era. I assume you are younger and maybe quite a bit younger. From my timeline not so long ago for a long time it has been a lot harder for the reds to come up with starting pitching either thru draft & development or trade than it has been corner outfielders. Going back to the late 1990’s we had really corner guys like Dunn (draft & development) and Griffey Jr (free agent) and later in the 2010’s jay bruce and others but for 10 years had the worst pitching in MLB. Wasn’t until around 2010 with the emergence of Cueto did we develop or have any success developing a pitcher and a year or so later a trade for a guy named latos who was good for us a year or so. Even a guy like Homer Bailey who was supposed to be can’t miss missed miserably.
After cueto and latos other than Luis Castillo took another 10 years until about 2020 to get good pitching but we have had it to some extent since. Seems like we only make the post season when we have good starting pitching specifically 2 top of the rotation types. 2010-2014 and 2020 & 2025. That is why I would like to keep Greene and lodolo until burns and Lowder are proven and take my chances that McLain, Stewart and others will come around on offense.
Kansas City was thinking the same thing last offseason. A small market team with surplus pitching in need of offense. They gave up Brady Singer for Jonathan India. Pretty clear how that worked out for each team.
Would the Reds take a LH outfielder with a couple years of team control for Chase Burns?
Like who?
Soderstorm has been mentioned on this thread. That would be a possibility or even Abbott if the an’s insist since he is more established than burns and equally as established as soderstorm. Abbott & burns are our 4 & 5 starters currently. Williamson could fill abbots spot or Lowder could fill burns spot if it improves our offense. I prefer Abbott & burns to Williamson & lowder but this difference are not significant. Any equally good & equal league minimum salary left handed power bat is a significant improvement over what we have for that.
Abbott & burns are our 4 & 5 starters currently.
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That’s ridiculous, bordering on insane. Those two would easily be the RS #2 & #3 SPs, easily. Now don’t be cheap and send us one. Maybe two.
Half our farm.
My buddy is a Red Sox fan even though like me from and still lives in Kentucky.
I would b good with Abbott for Wyber abreau and a decent prospect but I am not the reds front office. Abbott is what he is now at 26 which is a low 3 are pitcher and yes a #2 on a lot of teams & he will be that for 5 or 6 more years with 4 of team control. Burns I would like to keep as he could be what Hunter Greene is now in a few years.
We should not trade Greene for Duran but again I am not the GM. Our front office is as likely to do the Greene Duran deal as they ate the Abbott abreu. Even though Duran cost as much as Greene next year our brain trust sees the $21 million owed Greene 4 seasons from now and sweating over it.
It might depend on the prospect, but I’d do the Abbott/Abreu+ deal. Abreu + either Casas or Jh Garcia would be fairly even and a good fit.
The Reds history is they will trade a veteran over a young player. I fully expect Singer will be the guy dealt if any.
The going rate for Brady Singer last year was Jon India.
Like Duran.
If orange is the new black, then Greene is the old red
This is probably the peak they’re going to hit with this group that is cost effective. They are talented. I’d look at grabbing a top free agent and take that chance before they slowly lose players one after another and lose that window before another rebuild comes along. Not sure FAs would be lining you to go to Cincy, but they can try. Tucker would be ideal but I think he’s a Yankee.
Naylor and Suarez are doable free agents they can sign. The team is very much capable of spending more on payroll, they have done so in the past, ownership just doesn’t want to.
There is no other path to get quality bats in that anemic offense. They have no choice but to trade some of the pitching they have. Or run it back and hope for a miracle offensively. Krall is a big of a problem as ownership. Their highest paid player will once again not even be on the roster at the start of the season (Canelario). K Hayes will be the second highest paid position player and he will hit .220. You cant keep swinging and missing like the Reds have and expect good results.