Crisp For Marte Trade Complete?

Tony Massarotti of the Boston Herald had the scoop last night:

"According to baseball sources, the Red Sox and Cleveland Indians have agreed in principle on a deal that will bring outfielder Coco Crisp to the Sox in a multi-player trade. The deal was agreed upon several days ago under the condition that Cleveland be able to acquire another outfielder to replace Crisp, presumably Jason Michaels from the Philadelphia Phillies."

While everyone seems to agree that Crisp and Marte are the principles and the teams have been talking quite a bit, no other source that I've found has confirmed this trade as complete.  Chris Snow of the Boston Glove indicates that talks are still ongoing.

Should the deal go down, it appears that the Indians plan to hold Marte back for one more year.  According to Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

"The Indians feel Marte will have to spend this season at Class AAA regardless of his position, which doesn't do them much good if they're going to challenge Chicago in the AL Central."

The Indians restructured and exercised Aaron Boone's 2006 option in August of 2005, apparently deciding that there was no better alternative considering the price ($3.75MM).  In his age 32 season, Boone posted a .243/.299/.378 line in 511 at-bats.  That performance ranked 36th offensively among third baseman in 2005.  Boone spent much of the season shaking off the rust after missing 2004 because of a torn ACL.  He did manage to improve to .276/.336/.394 in the second half.

Still, you have to think the Indians made the decision on Boone's option before they realized Marte was available.  Given that Marte hit .275/.372/.506 as a 21 year-old in Triple A, he would very likely approximate or exceed Boone's 2006 production at a tenth of the cost.

Spinning Edgar Renteria, Guillermo Mota, and cash into Coco Crisp is a fine deal on the surface for the Red Sox.  However, they may have opened up a new hole by solving their center field problem.  The team will now be relying on a positive contribution from Mike Lowell, who is no safe bet for a rebound following a woeful .236/.298/.360 line in 2005.  Lowell was, in fact, one of the few third basemen worse than Aaron Boone in 2005.

The addition of Alex Gonzalez is also probably not a good thing for Boston.  Even with defense considered, the Sox would be lucky to get an Orlando Cabrera-ish contribution in 2006.  (And I'm referring to Cabrera circa 2005, who hit .257/.309/.365). 

The real winner in all of this is the Indians.  Even if they do delay Marte's debut, Crisp wasn't irreplaceable as a left fielder.  The average AL left fielder hit .278/.333/.437 in 2005, while Crisp hit .300/.345/.465.  Marte projects to be a solid regular and has star potential.

Comments

[Nick]

In Fenway, Crisp will be the man.

Still hate to see Marte go.

[DrBox]

Why doesn't Boston just trade for Michaels? Limited player, no power, but he can walk and is good enough for a year or 2, is he not?

[RumorMonger]

I agree Doc, that move makes more sense in my mind.

[A-ROD]

The Red Sawx infield:

3B Mike Lowell
SS Alex Cora
2B Mark Lorretta
1B Kevin Youkilis / J.T. Snow

Wow, thats not good in terms of offensive production.
Lorretta should do well, but last year Lowell looked done for his career.
Cora is at best a backup and 1B non-threatening

[RumorMonger]

Alex Gonzalez can outhit Cora, but it's still not a an impressive infield offensively.

[Rem]

Marte has star potential and Kruk is making a comeback.

[A-ROD]

RumorMonger
What have you heard regarding
Pat Gillick coveting Jose Contreras???
I would like to see Abreu come to the Southside however their is no place for him and his $$$.
Do you think a Three Team deal could happen in which the SoX could upgrade SS???

[RumorMonger]

Only what I've read in the paper...I think the Sox will go with Gonzalez at short.

[DrBox]

We'd have to give up a lot more than Jose for Abreu. Were we to do that, we would be trading pitching and young players for power and more salary: a drastic shift in the philosophy that won a world's title.

[K-Man]

Honestly, I would prefer Contreras is traded for a package which centers around pitching.

If you deal Contreras, McCarthy moves into the rotation and now two bullpen vacancies remain. NO ONE from the White Sox minor leagues is capable of replacing the production (subpar as it often was)of Vizcaino and Marte. Abreu would be nice, but as Monger said, his salary doesn't make it feasible.

That's why I've always been hoping the Dodgers would accept Contreras. You figure a pitcher such as him in that division, in that ballpark, would post tremendous numbers.

[Erikfromdabronx]

Funny. One good year and Contreras is suddenly coveted.

I predict an ERA over 4.5. Maybe he gets 4.2 in the NL. No way Jose keeps his hit and HR rate down. He's never done it before, probability says he won't do it again. I'd expect an average season from him.

If i'm Gillick, there is simply no way in hell that I would trade Abreu for Contreras. Maybe if McCarthy is included... but he's simply not an Ace, even with the aberration that was 2005.

[Thomas]

3B Mike Lowell
SS Alex Cora
2B Mark Lorretta
1B Kevin Youkilis / J.T. Snow

vs

3B A-Rod
SS Derek Jeter
2B Robinson Cano
1B Jason Giambi

uhhhh hahaha

[K-Man]

Have you actually witnessed Contreras pitch anytime during the second half of last season? Stellar numbers aside, he completely altered his approach. Featuring various release points gave hitters a different look at his fastball and forkball.

I don't understand the logic of how he could pitch effeciently in the American League, yet in the weakened National League his ERA raises nearly half a run?

Ask Boston how different Contreras has become. He sure proved the Contreras from the New York days was a completely different pitcher in the playoffs.

However, I wouldn't blame an organization for refusing to forfeit top talent. He's allegedly in his mid-30's, in his walk-year, and just off the largest workload in his MLB career.

[Paul R]

Ridiculous trade, Boston better get Arthur rhodes or Riske or Bettancourt with Crisp, even then Marte will be the new Jeff bagwell....(sox traded him for Larry anderson)

[Ryan]

K-Man: Actually, Conteras has been using different release points for a long time; only difference is that he was able to put the ball in the strikezone when he dropped his armslot.

Contreras has always had good stuff, but he's always had poor command and has been too quick to go to his forkball (a nasty pitch, but not good enough to throw every time he gets in trouble, which is what he has had a tendency to do).

Bottom line is that Contreras performed how everyone expected him to when he defected. While I don't think he's going to be anywhere near as dominant in '06, I think he will be better than in years past.

[Erikfromdabronx]

Agree wholeheartedly, Ryan. Solid, but not great... and definitely not worth Abreu.

[James]

So any more word on this? It makes little sense to me, especially since Theo is back in the fold. He covets young talent, and Marte is pretty much as good as it gets in terms of young talent. I know Crisp isnt old, but he isnt the caliber player Marte is, IMO. However, if you move Crisp to CF, and you look at his numbers in the lense of all CF, they look more impressive, compared to putting his numbers up against corner OF's.

From the Phillies side, Michaels should bring us a reliever of Betancourt or better, or a 4/5 starter. I really doubt Abreu is getting traded, though I think Gillick is trying really hard.

[RumorMonger]

Far as I know, it's still just that one source saying the agreement has been reached.

[Darin]

"Ridiculous trade, Boston better get Arthur rhodes or Riske or Bettancourt with Crisp, even then Marte will be the new Jeff bagwell....(sox traded him for Larry anderson)"

What are you talking about? 1st the Bags/Anderson trade was a midseason trade to help bolster Boston's bullpen for a playoff run. Plus Bags wasn't really a top prospect, didn't have much power yet, and was traded because there was no room for him at 3b because Wade Boggs, Tim Naehring and Scott Cooper (both better prospects than Bags) were above him on the depth charts.

The present trade is not being made for a post season run, everyone knows that Marte is probably going to be a star(with power), he's only blocked by Mike Lowell, and the other centerpiece is a young CF entering his prime, not an aging middle reliever at the end of their career.

Two totally different trades with totally different circumstances.

[KH]

The Cleveland Plain Dealer has an update of sorts. It says the deal is pending Mota's physical. The 2 Cleveland prospects are low level guys, and the Boston prospect is a pitcher. Mota would head to Philly, unless he fails that physical, then it would be Riske or Rhodes (no mention of Betancourt)

http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_plaindealer/archives/2006_01.html

[Spencer]

Red Sox are the worst team in history of MLB

[steven]

latest on rotoworld says that the only thing holding up the deal is a physical for mota. i think its hard to judge this deal until we find out who the other three players are in it but if it really is boston throws in another minor league pitcher and gets two low level prospects then i really dont understand it all. this deal doesnt really seem like a move this red soxs FO would want to make which leads me to think the fact that only one source is reporting it as basically done should be a red flag. i wont rule out the soxs getting fleeced cause of how bad they need a cf and leadoff man but it looks too much like highway robbery to go down as reported. anyone heard any rumors about the 3 players no one can seem to name?

[DaSux]

Talk about a sinking ship! Is there any chance this team will make a run at the 2006 AL Pennant??? I think not. Oh well, better luck next time!

[steven]

sinking ship? not exactly the one thing overlooked about this deal is that irregardless of how smart it is long term for the short term it does make the soxs a better team.

[dave]

The Boston Globe has the details on the other players in proposed trade. Along with Crisp the Sox get setup man David Riske and backup cather Josh Bard. The Indians get Marte, Mota and catcher Kelly Shoppach.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/01/23/source_sox_agree_to_crisp_deal/

[Cletown]

I've heard rumors of a big 3 way deal, Bos-Cle-Phi.

Bos getting Abreu, Crisp and Riske for Nixon, Clement, Shoppach, Delcarmen, Marte, Mota and Murphy.

Cle getting Marte, Mota, Michaels, Murphy (they like M's:P) for Crisp, Rhodes, Riske.

Phi getting Nixon, Clement, Shoppach, Delcarmen, Rhodes for Abreu and Michaels.

Bos is looking to upgrade RF now, and have a spare starter.

Cle gets their great prospect, decent replacement for him and a good reliver.

Phi gets another starter, #2 for them. Nixon plays RF and they sign Hidalgo/Sosa to platoon with him. Shoppach plays C for them and Delcarmen is another arm in the pen.

Another thing I've heard is David Wells and Nixon for Drew and Guzman from LA.

[tsktsk]

I cant believe how you guys are underating Coco Crisp. Coco Crisp is a stellar fielding CF, he can hit the ball, and this guy is only 26!!! Some of you guys are comparing Marte to Crisp? Crisp already has sucess in the MLB so far, while Marte is still young, and still finding his way. Look Marte has good potential, but you dont know what you are gonna get out of him. I'll take Crisp as a CF, and honestly, defensively he's an upgrade over Damon. I think Boston fans will love Coco, and he would be the right fit for the team. Also, i dont think Boston is getting ripped off here just because they are giving up in this deal, and I think this is a good trade for the Redsox.

I think Mike Lowell is going to be fine in Boston. Hes a solid player defensively, and hell do a solid job hitting the ball. Hes 32, but hes always been known as a solid hitter at 3B. I think Lowell will bounce back and hit .275 in the season.

[James]

These expanded deals are insane. Basically, the Phillies give up Abreu, one of the 10 or 12 best OF in all of baseball, and get back a lot of garbage in return. No thanks.

[brian]

Do you think Gillick is stupid enough to trade a prospect for a 36 year old reliver? I doubt it, so I can't see that trade happening

[A-ROD]

Does Jimmy Rollins have a no trade clause???
Contreras & Uribe for Rollins
Make it happen Pat, Make it happen!!!

[Rock Raines]

I see Boston is giving away quality prospects for rejects and veterans, how can my team play? Matt Murton, Hanley Ramirez, Kelly Shoppach, Andy Marte's all too brief stay. I'd like Dustin Pedroia and Jonathan Papelbon, please. How about if I send you Marquis Grissom, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Fassero and three cases of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco treat?

[tsktsk]

For rejects and veterans?! You calling Coco Crisp a reject? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh man, baseball fans can crack me up with their ridiculous talks. Man I hope Crisp shows what he got so he can shut your ignorant talks because if you think Crisp sucks, then you guys need to see Crisp play more. Is it because of his solid BA, OBP, speed, and fielding skills that make you guys think its a bad trade? Hes only 26, and hes going to improve gradually over these next 4-5 years. The only reason I see why soem you guys think this is is a bad trade because he is not a big name player you hear everyday. Well, you are going to hear his name with the RedSox when he shows his true skills.

[steven]

i knew there had to be more than just low level prospects on clevelands side. if boston gets riske then this deal starts looking pretty good for them. also even though that three way looks pretty out there it might have some basis as a rumor given all the different players on all sides that keeping coming in and out of this deal. one possible sticking point would be abreus no trade and him trying to make boston pick up some expensive options. the one thing im wondering about is i heard the soxs were gettign riske when it was a three team deal with cincinati that fell apart. i think the soxs are smart enough not to do this deal without riske in it but if mota cant pass that physical this whole thing could fall apart fast. as far as the guy arguing about giving up prospects the red soxs still have one of the better farms in baseball right now. he is right about matt murton but that was neccesary to win the title so its hard to critize in that light. the other three are all players that were largely hyped up just to trade. i cant say this for sure about marte since i dont know enough about him but it sure looks that way. if marte is really "the best player the braves ever traded" or any of those other sound bytes i find it kind of odd they gave him up for 3 years of renteria at a nice price. when you look at the crisp in the light of giving up renteria and some money he starts to look like a nice aquistion.

[Rem]

Is this Damaso Marte?

[kyle]

This trade is a good trade for all parties involved. The red sox NEED a centerfielder and Crisp will be a very good centerfielder for years to come at a rather cheap price. On the Indians side yes Crisp is a good CF but in LF he is average at best so they trade there 2nd best CF for a power hitting right handed third baseman who could be ready by mid season. Left field is an easy position to fill but a power hitting 3rd baseman is hard to come by.

[Ryan]

Kyle: Actually, 3rd base is typically a power hitter's position. Now, to find a power hitting 3rd baseman of Marte's projected callibre--that is hard to come by.

Rock: I've heard a lot of love for Ramirez from Red Sox fans, but I don't hear it from analysts. They like his glove, but it doesn't look like he's going to be the next Jeter...

A-ROD: Not sure why I bother, but...that is a pretty dumb trade scenario for Philly. Even though they need pitching, why in the blue hell would they give away one of the cornerstones of their organization, who is also one of the best shortstops and one of the best lead-off men in the game? Please tell me you're joking if you think that Uribe's hideous swing and Contreras can land J-Roll...

tsktsk: I like Crisp--he's a great player, and from what I've heard, he's a good clubhouse guy, too. But you have to understand the trepidation that fans would have in trading away one of the best prospects in all of baseball--even if it is for a quality player like Crisp (coolest name in baseball since Catfish Hunter, IMO).

[steven]

who likes ramirezs glove. im a red soxs fan and ill tell you he has all the potential in the world but right now he basically has been falling short in pretty much all of the 5 tools. we hyped him but as far as i had heard defense became a real problem and that was only at aa. he seemed to be turning into the poor mans bj upton. i agree on coco's name though. ill take the possible hit on future value just to be able to say it on a daily basis.