The Dodgers inquired on both Roy Oswalt and Cliff Lee and got similar responses from the Astros and Mariners, reports Bill Shaikin of the LA Times. Both clubs told the Dodgers that they're not about to deal their respective aces now, but assured GM Ned Colletti that he would hear about it if anything changes.
The Dodgers have a rotation of Hiroki Kuroda, Clayton Kershaw, John Ely, Chad Billingsley and, eventually, Vicente Padilla. That group, plus Carlos Monasterios, Charlie Haeger and Ramon Ortiz, has combined for a 4.20 ERA.
The Dodgers have less payroll flexibility than some teams, but Colletti says the club could take on payroll in the right trade.
"I think it really depends on the deal," Colletti said.
Lee has about $5.7MM remaining on his deal, and Oswalt has about $29MM remaining on his. That could make Lee the more coveted pitcher, as Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports explained earlier tonight. It seems likely that the Astros will listen to offers for Oswalt, but there's no guarantee that the Mariners will shop Lee.
The White Sox made a mistake in trading Ely, at least Pierre is starting to turn it around. I still wish we had Ely though.
Honestly, most feel the Dodgers won the deal after they got rid of 8M from the payroll… Ely just pitching was a plus… and him pitching like he has, well, I think we won that deal 🙂
YA I know. 🙁
aha, sorry.. wasn’t trying to rub it in
Its ok.
nobody won any deal, the Dodgers are paying over 10 million dollars worth of salary for Pierre. Lets see what Ely does after he has been through the league a time or two. It is a new way of selling your players. The Dodgers gave up this kid Santana to the Indians for 6 weeks of Casey Blakes salary being paid by the Indians. It was a outright sale of a minor league prospect as if the Dodgers were a team that did not draw and needed the money to cover payroll. Instead they have the highest attendence year in and year out.This is what happens when you have an owner who just wants to milk every asset before the bottom falls out. Hey McCourt go back to the bowels of the south side of boston you carpetbagger.
given that we were going to pay Pierre 18M over the next 2 years to be the 4th OF, we won the deal by taking 8M over the next 2 years off the payroll, IMO, before we got anyone. Then we get a solid SP and a possible pen guy(even though he has been bad so far this year)? And Pierre has been horrible… Id say we won, given the circumstances…
And the boy idiot speaks.
I love how your responses to me, a week after making the comment, gives no reason as to why you disagree and rather is a personal insult, based on my age. Extremely mature…
Boy Idiot
You must be one of those people who aren’t able to sustain an argument. I was like that too… When I was 10. But honestly, have a nice life. If you aren’t going to be able to respond to someone who counters your argument with other evidence, please don’t respond to my posts. There is really, truly no point in wasting my or your time with immature responses.
Put your fangs back in your mouth. you are an idiot.
Wow, you continue to amaze me. You have repeatedly called me a ‘boy’ and an idiot, yet you tell me to put my fangs in my mouth? wtf does that mean? Who thinks of your comebacks… to nothing… a little kid? If you want to have future conversations that involve baseball and dont turn into you spewing insults and being told to grow up by a 16 year old ‘kid’, fine. But if you continue with these insults that are not needed, Im just going to report them, because neither I nor anyone else needs to take your crap
________________________________
You are really going to cry in your juice cup when the lakers get eliminated in boston.
I’ll trade Kemp straight up for Lee, if we can get an extension on him before the deal….with the clubhouse issues kemp is reportedly creating, and the comments made by colletti, I don’t see him staying with the dodgers. We need pitching, Seattle needs hitting, its a match. Sign Ethier long term, and let kemp go while we can get a true ace in return. I know a lot of Dodger fans might disagree with dealing Kemp, but we need to make moves now while a championship is within reach, but we need an ace, and I think our offense is good enough to keep up without Kemp, Xavier Paul has been playing well and could slide into the number 2 slot nicely and play solid D.
No, thats just not going to happen
I know it wont, I’m saying I would do it, to me..thats a good trade I would be ok with as a Dodger fan, because that way we would have an ace in Lee who is a proven playoff pitcher, instead of no ace when kemp walks in his free agent year
The M’s would jump all over that deal, and you as a Dodger fan should not be ok with trading away a star CF for an impending FA, even if you got an extension on Lee.
If the dodgers plan on making it to the world series, they need an ace. we have a depleted farm system, and our hitting is doing well with andre, Kemp has a cocky attittude that coaches dont like, apparently approached management requesting to trade him. The way the dodgers are, they lose kemp in a few years as a free agent and we end up with nothing. or we trade him for an ace now, and have a chance. i know its not going to happen, this is just something i would do
Kemp never asked to be traded. Please stop making this stuff up, and take a step back and think about how ridiculous this deal would be for the Dodgers.
never said he asked to be traded
no they dont. An ace guarrantees you NOTHING. If it did, shouldnt the Dodgers have lost to the Cardinals? Hell, they had two aces. What did they get? An early vacation…
But lets see, what is better… one of the most valuable CFs in the game, who is 25, or an ace who is going to leave. He told Philly the only way he signs an extension is if he gets 8 years at CC’s rate. For a team that is short on money, wouldnt it make sense to keep the guy who will make ~5M this year and next, and we still have another year of control? Honestly, do you think? He has not caused any clubhouse problems and is reportedly loved by his teammates. Just because Colletti is an idiot and criticizes his best player doesnt mean that Kemp is ruining the team, at all.
So, lets think about when we get to next year. We lose Lee to FA, or give him 8 years at 20M+ a year. And we get to watch Kemp turn into one of the best 5 tool players in the game… yea, wed be in a great spot. And our chances to win a title would be no greater..
The Dodgers would be getting robbed. Kemp has three years of team control left and far more surplus value over contract than Lee will.
You’re insane if you’d trade Kemp for a Lee rental. Even if you get an extension from Lee, you could just sign him after this season without giving up a potential all-star caliber player.
I’m saying this based off of reports i heard of kemp being a problem in the clubhouse, and colletti’s comments made towards kemp, he is walking as soon as he can, and the dodgers wont be able to afford both ethier and kemp, ethier is a better clubhouse leader, so why not try and get something for kemp and try and win a championship this year? the dodgers dont have the farm system anymore to trade everyone away, I’m going one for one.
So get prospects, you could get a boatload. You don’t give up a player like Kemp for a half-season rental.
thats why i said an extension would have to be approved by lee before the deal happens
Lee will be a free agent at season’s end. You have a level playing field. Kemp isn’t worth a head start on signing him. AND Kemp is worth more going forward for the three years you have him than a pitcher in his 30s is at big money.
I think LakersDodgers head just exploded! lol
You are a very silly man.
Kershaw is your future ace. Kemp is a proven commodity, yet we’ve still to see his full ceiling. Along with Ethier, those three should be untouchable, to build your franchise around for the upcoming years. Giving up any one of them just doesn’t make financial, organizational, baseball, or any other kind of sense.
Pitchers can be so inconsistent year to year, I would never give up a star in the making OF for one. Don’t worry, the window isn’t closing. No need to panic and do something stupid which you will surely regret later.
theres an article somewhere that talks about how Kemps cocky attitude effects the clubhouse and he doesnt listen to the coaching staff when trying to give him improvements because he thinks he doesnt need it, they said he has a negative effect especially with the other young players, and coaches have approached upper management and request they trade him….after what colletti said publicly about kemp, and if what they say about his attitude is true, he wont be there in the future
no, there was no article. It was Colletti trashing his best player instead of the overpaid, underproducing veterans that COLLETTI wanted. Like, George Sherrill, Ramon Ortiz(how long did it take him to get DFA’d, 40 games?!?), Padilla, etc. Instead, he trashes players that are the future of the team because he didnt bring them into the organization, Logan White did.
I posted the quotes down further
Regardless of the seriousness of Kemp’s reported attitude problems and the difficulty the coaching staff supposedly has with him (mostly speculation, by the way), that doesn’t mean the Dodgers should take lesser value if they trade him. 2 1/2 seasons of Matt Kemp is worth a heck of a lot more than 1/2 season of Cliff Lee.
Cliff Lee has stated countless times he wants to test the free agent market, so I don’t see him signing a market value extension. And in the off-season, the Dodgers have the same opportunity to sign Cliff Lee as anyone else.
If you’re thinking about trading Matt Kemp, you do it for another young player with a similar contract (think Josh Johnson or Zack Greinke, not Cliff Lee)… or a ton of prospects.
apparently no one read how i said i would do it if we could extend lee…meaning more than half a season
In your trade, you are trading 2.5 years of Kemp for 1/2 a season of Lee plus the right to negotiate an extension with Lee. You still have to sign him to a deal, which, according to how the Phillies handled the matter, will cost you similar to what CC got… You are not trading for 8.5 years of Lee, you are trading for .5 years and then the ability to sign him for 8 years…
no, im not trading and then negotiating, you get the rights to negotiate an extension with lee before you make the deal, if no extension is made then the deal doesnt happen, so as i said, we get more than .5 years of lee or no deal for kemp is made
But he doesn’t already have those years. The point is you will trade kemp for the right to give Lee 160M. Its a dumb deal for them. You trade a top 5 CF to give a pitcher 20M until he is mid to late 30s…
I agree a move needs to be made if the ownership of the dodgers true intentions are to win a championship, but it is doubtful the dodgers will give Lee the kind of money he wants. Kemp may have some maturity issues, and he could be this generations Raul Mondesi. Some really good years until he Implodes his career, or he may play 15 years and put up some nice numbers. Right now his salary is cheap enough, he is a gold glove caliber outfielder and a 30 hr 100 rbi type guy and he will hit around .280, he may improve those numbers if he wants to put the work in. Manny is going to be in an out of the lineup all year with his injury problems so trading Kemp just does not make a lot of sense. If you trade for Lee for six weeks who do you give up. The dodgers top minor league guy is out on a 50 game suspension, maybe you have to give up Xaiver Paul but he is probably Mannys replacement next year and he will be salary controlled for several years. It is not likely the Dodgers trade any player who will or is major league ready and has years of controlled salary ahead of them. That has more value then winning a championship to the Dodgers. You will hear a bunch of rumors how colletti went after the top pitchers at the trade deadline. A story or two will be leaked to the LA times, but at the end of the day no major deals will go down.There are many teams in the same boat. A great premium is on young talent who has contolable salarys. Baseball is a for profit business and this is the new dynamic.
Setting aside the ridiculous Kemp idea, I’d imagine some package involving Ethan Martin, Andrew Lambo, and either Hu or De Jesus is enough for a rental of Lee or a salary dump of Oswalt. Hard to see the Dodgers taking on Oswalt’s contract, though.
I dont see Lambo being traded since he is suspended for drug violation
I disagree. Lambo is suspended for drug use, Hu’s trade value is almost non-existent, and E. Martin is putting up mediocre numbers right now.
I think the conversation would have to involve Ely, Gordon, Paul, Withrow/Lindblom and maybe a guy like Russell or Sands (power hitting prospect).
Honestly, I don’t think the Dodgers can pull it off without leaving their already weak farm system completely barren.
I doubt either takes both Gordon and Withrow, plus others. Thats two top 50s, a guy who has been great in the majors(and is pitching his game, control, so it is doubtful it is simply a fluke). Plus one of our top power prospects? That is a lot for a $29M commitment or a 1/2 year rental.
I think it would be something like:
Elbert or McDonald(MLB ready starter)
DeJesus(top MI prospect not named Gordon)
Someone from the group of T. Robinson, Lambo, Van Slyke, B. Smith
and a younger pitcher like Eovaldi, Miller, Martin who has good potential, but is far away…
Lambo is toting around a little too much baggage to be a centerpiece in a big trade.
he has a weed problem. He had it in HS. That is it. Weed is allowed in the majors, but prospects can get suspended for it. He is in rehab now, I believe, during his suspension. He basically needs to not smoke for a year to year and a half and then be fine…. look at his numbers this year.. he was doing amazingly. He still has the talent, he is just immature.
FOr Lee and actual deal would look more like this from the Dodgers.
Trayvonne Robinson OF, Ivan DeJesus SS, Scott Elbert RSP, Aaron Miller LSP
Do that and you have a solid deal…
A. Lambo is suspended for steroids. and with Dee Gordon DeJesus is expendable.
There’s too much doubt about Elbert being able to start effectively, he has much less value if he’s a reliever. Nobody is going to want DeJesus with his performance lately and his reported character problems.
The reported issues were because he changed his arm angle trying to add more sink to his FB… his last start was his first good one and he had great control. If he learns to control his FB and the slider(which he has control of already), he can be a starter with an average changeup.
As a reliever, he still has potential to be one of the best relievers in the game. A lefty with a great FB and slider is… Hong Chih Kuo like..
No, he was suspended for pot.
That’s way too much for a giant salary or a rental.
For Lee an actual deal would look more like this from the Dodgers.Trayvonne Robinson OF, Ivan DeJesus SS, Scott Elbert RSP, Aaron Miller LSPDo that and you have a solid deal…A. Lambo is suspended for steroids. and with Dee Gordon DeJesus is expendable.
lambo is on a 50 suspention from PEDs so that wont happen. im all for oswalt he isnt pitching for money, he already has it. he is hungery for a ring. lee is still trying to get money. plus oswalt makes more sence for the dodgers in the sense that is a 3 year deal with oswalt(club option). if they pass on oswalt and finally go after a pitcher via FA its going to cost more then 16 mill a year, plus the player will want a long term deal, which hasnt benifited the dodgers lately. i say take oswalt, and mccourts please sell us to a real owner.
Lambo suspended for PED’s? Only performance enhancement from pot I have heard about is the ability to watch Beavis and Butthead for 3 straight hours…
I don’t know much about the Dodgers farm-system, but I would expect it would take a pretty solid major league ready hitter to get Lee. Even though he is a rental the Mariners didn’t give up the farm to get him and they aren’t paying him that much for what they’re getting. The Mariners have plenty of leverage as far as him, they’re not going to sell low on him, they’ll just take the compensation picks instead.
Not much. Kyle Russell and Jerry Sands are the power hitters in the Dodgers farm, but they’re still in A ball. At the higher levels you don’t have much. Xavier Paul is probably the only major league ready OFer the Dodgers have. And he’s a solid prospect, but doesn’t have a great amount of power. Good contact hitter, plays solid defense, good baserunner. They have a decent hitter catcher in Lucas May in AAA.
Not sure what the M’s need, but Xavier Paul and Lucas May would probably be all the Dodgers could provide as far as hitting prospects that are major league ready (and any good). And as far as major league ready pitching, John Ely would be the main piece the Dodgers could offer (the addition of Lee would make Ely expendable in the eyes of Dodger management, even if he is arguably better than Vicente Padilla).
John Ely, Xavier Paul, Lucas May would be your major league ready players. But most of the Dodgers top prospects (Gordon, Withrow, Lindblom, E. Martin, A. Miller, Eovaldi, Gould) aren’t at that level yet. Perhaps a combination of these would be necessary.
I was convinced if the mariners are in the race i would offer them Manny for Lee. they need a bat we get the pitcher that we need and just incase he walks away after the season, it wont hurt me because i knew manny was going to do the same. between xavier and johnson left field is covered
I would be all for that before Kemp, but i think that is less likely. too much money involved in mannys contract to figure out who pays for what, and the dodgers play better with him in the lineup…the sad truth
That doesn’t make sense, the Ms would not trade Lee if they were still in contention, same for the Dodgers, Manny to Johnson/Paul is a tremendous drop. Makes no sense.
That doesn’t make sense, the Ms would not trade Lee if they were still in contention, same for the Dodgers, Manny to Johnson/Paul is a tremendous drop. Makes no sense.
Maybe not for Lee, but I have been proposing Manny to the M’s for quite some time, though it was never received well by M’s fans.
If the M’s are truly in contention, buy someone like Delgado or Dye on FA, and get draft compensation for Lee when he walks following the season. You won’t be able to offer arb to ManRam (at least it won’t be worth it).
I will say it again, for the length of contract that will be necessary to purchase Lee, it will not be worth it in the long run. Dodgers should avoid Lee.
Since the dodgers system doesn’t have any notable prospects that are near major league ready, maybe the deal could be placed around James Loney and a couple lower level minor leaguers.
Not a terrible idea, but I’m not sure the Dodgers want to rely on Belliard as a full-time 1B. They do have decent IF depth, though. Blake and Belliard can both play 1B and 3B. DeWitt can play 2B or 3B. Carroll can play anywhere…
What the hell? What’s with these Dodgers fans offering stupid trades? This isn’t fantasy baseball, folks. You don’t trade away Kemp, who is under team control for a few years at a reasonable price, for Lee who will want a huge paycheck. Kemp Ethier Kershaw should be untouchable, as they are the cornerstones of the future, not to mention young, under team control, and relatively inexpensive.
Plus, we haven’t even seen Kemp’s full potential yet. Cliff Lee, I believe we have.
And lastly, I’m always wary of giving up a position player for a pitcher. They’re just too fragile or inconsistent, or both.
Agreed. You trade Matt Kemp, you better be getting someone like Zack Greinke or Josh Johnson back in return. At a MINIMUM!
The Zack Greinke idea is one I like. Matt Kemp is from Oklahoma, so the Royals would be more or less his home team.
It’s nice to talk about this..but come on guys. Do we really think ownership is going to spend anymore than $3-4M come July 31st? We gave up Santana just to save a few million bucks. Last year we spent about $4M to get Belliard, Thome, etc. We were never in any serious conversation to trade for Lee or Halladay last year.
It would be great to talk about trading for Lee or Oswalt, but it’s not going to happen. Oswalt is 100% not happening, even if the Stros eat half of his salary. We couldn’t even lock up Ethier or Kemp for over 2 years, why would we trade for an aging pitcher with 3 years and $40M left?
For Lee, he already said he is not signing an extension. He wants to get paid just like every other player out there. And I don’t think he is a “true ace”. He has been dealing like this only for the past 2-3 years.. Guys like Halladay who throw 200 innings for 8 years are Aces.
And for the guy who said trade away Kemp…shame on you. He hasn’t been the same since the Colletti comments. Granted I agree he won’t sign long term with the Dodgers (I presume the Yanks will be all over him come FA time), you just don’t give away a player like that for a 3 month rental.
thats why i said sign an extension, read it, its not a rental if we extend him
Read my earlier post…Lee will NOT sign an extension. He doesn’t even want Halladay money (3 years/$60M) at this point. He think he is worth CC $. Good luck with that.
Cliff Lee isn’t an ace? Uh huh.
The Wire: Coach Says, “Trade Kemp?”
Tony Jackson dishes on Matt Kemp in his recent chat session. Among his takes:
It wouldn’t completely shock me — it would surprise me, but not shock me — if Kemp is the piece the Dodgers use to get a frontline starter at or near the trading deadline.
I have it on good authority (NOT from Colletti, from others) that if anything, Ned UNDERSTATED the issues with Kemp. This kid is really full of himself, to the point that it is becoming an issue in the clubhouse. I’m not saying they WILL trade him. I still think there is less than a 50-percent chance that they will. I’m just saying that if they do trade one of their core young players, he probably will be the one, not only because of these issues but also because he would have the most value.
He has been somewhat difficult with the media almost from the time he came to the big leagues. What I’m hearing now is that he is difficult for some of the coaches to deal with, that he gets his dander up when they try to offer him advice on certain things. I do know that one coach (I can’t say who) has gone so far as to recommend to the front office that they trade him.
If it’s immaturity, he has had plenty of time to outgrow it. Based on what I’m told, he hasn’t outgrown it yet. None of this is terribly surprising, just judging from the way he handles himself with the media. He is difficult to deal with, and I’m told that isn’t limited to the media.
I think some of the younger players have become so cocky that it rubs certain people the wrong way. I hope it’s an issue Joe Torre can get under control quickly, because these things tend to fester if you don’t.
I loved kemp, till i read about this. now i dont care if we get rid of him, thats why i posted the trade. he wont be here in a few years, and this is our last year of manny, why not get a legit sp and go for a championship now?
Oh wow…I (like most of us) had no idea it was THAT bad. I still think if you trade him, it better be for an ACE we get to keep cost controlled for at least 2-3 years. I doubt anyone (Josh Johnson, Greinke) is even available.
I’m pretty sure this is just part of Tony Jackson’s agenda. Maybe Kemp refused an interview with him recently, and he’s held it against Kemp ever since. But Kemp is frequently interviewed by Steve Hartman on his radio program. He seems like a likeable guys for the most part. Not particularly articulate, but likeable.
Jesus Christ…Believing Tony Jackson about players he doesnt like(ie Chad Billingsley) is beyond dumb. He is known the have a bias, to the point where just a month ago he called Billingsley a potential #4. And Kemp is not full of himself. Now, he may have been. But the one thing that Casey Blake has done for Kemp is befriend him and make sure he doesnt become full of himself. Casey has become his older brother and kept his head on straight. To believe Jackson about the actual players is like believing that Ramon Ortiz is good…
One other thing.. he basically admits that Kemp pissed him off by saying he isnt good with the media. He admitted his biases in the article, and you still read it like its the bible!?
Think some of you LAD fans may be forgetting about the NYY who still may be looking to get another Ace to go behind Sabathia and have -0- qualms in moving top prospects. They don’t mind paying high salaries either, which may be a burden to Colleti, regardless of what is being put out in the press.
Just because Javier Vazquez has had a couple of good games in a row for the Yanks, never under estimate them, if Lee is the target, they could also give him the huge contract now, rather than post season when most everybody figures they will sign him anyway.
Agreed Lee fits better with the LAD and Oswalt is more cost prohibitive, but Lee has proven himself in the AL before and the Yanks would probably take that into consideration.
Not trying to throw a wrench onto any LAD fan plans here.
The Yankees farm has taken a hit with the recent trades for Granderson and Vazquez, and the Mariners would almost certainly ask for Montero, whom Cashman refused to give up for Roy Halladay, and he’s proven a lot more than Cliff Lee.
Btw, I’m not sure if the Mariners have a future catcher, but I’m almost positive that 1B isn’t set for the future and Montero’s bat would play there provided he turns things around in AAA.
really, how many aces do you want the Yankees to have? They have one of the best lefties in the game right now, a SOLID #2, Hughes has incredible potential and is pitching well. Javy is an ace in the NL and will be a solid rotation guy for the Yanks. Finally, they have Pettitte who has been everything you want from a consistent starter
It all depends (short term) on how well the Rays continue to hold onto 1st place and if the red Sox continue to pressure the NYY for WC/1st place also. If it gets into a 3 way race for those 2 playoff spots? You bet IMO they will make a move for Lee over Oswalt and the AL experience being the deciding factor, being LH meaning nothing.
Don’t think the Yankees still really trust vazquez and he may be able to bring a fair haul back from a NL team if he pitches fair to decent up until the trade deadline from a NL contender is what have in mind.
As far as Aces? i guess you can have as many as it takes to win. Not trying to just name them, but on paper, Boston would have 3 at the start of the season and the Yankees a solid pair and by acquiring lee they would have 4. A powerful staff that may be enough to take on the Rays unworldly 5 man rotation as it now stands.
I agree with you. I’m a Dodger fan, but a lot of my fellow fans are unrealistic when they propose deals for Oswalt or Lee revolving around players like McDonald, Hu, Elbert, etc.
There is a good reason we’re so willing to trade these players, and it is the same reason our potential trade partners are going to have little interest in them.
Dodger fans are forgetting there are two sides to the deal, and at least a half dozen teams would be prepared to put better offers on the table than offers centered on marginal prospects our team has given up on. Prospects that haven’t panned out (Elbert, McDonald, Hu) aren’t going to get it done. The Dodgers would have to include top prospects, including at least two of Gordon, Ely, Withrow, Lindblom, Jansen and probably two more decent prospects like Xavier Paul, Lucas May, Kyle Russell, Jerry Sands.
Otherwise the M’s and Astros will simply look elsewhere. Or in the M’s case just hold on to Lee and take the first round draft picks.
O and if you guys havent realized, no one wants dodger prospects. (cliff lee/roy halladay) so yea all of you just keep wishing that we trade our prospects and get an ace for them. dont think its going to happen
No one wants our prospects? That is why teams have asked more from them in the Casey Blake deal, and Lee and Halladay potential deals? Can you stop talking out of your ass, please?
As an M’s fan, I would love to have Manny as DH, and let milton play full time.
As far as letting Lee go and being in contention, we aren’t going to even get into contention if we can’t hit the frickin’ ball. The Dodgers would have to give us something pretty substantial on top of Manny though, as most people think Manny is regressing fast, and Lee just got done destroying the World Champion Yankees.
BTW the M’s don’t want Kemp, we just signed Gutierrez to an extension.
Are the Dodgers sick of Furcal yet? Cause we need a shortstop that can hit desperately.