Some more links for Tuesday night, including the latest waiver wire news…
- Brad Hawpe is one step closer to signing with another team now that he has cleared waivers, according to Troy Renck of the Denver Post (on Twitter).
- The Dodgers put Hiroki Kuroda on waivers, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Kuroda hits free agency after the season, but the Dodgers don't necessarily want to move him. A rival executive guaranteed Rosenthal that the Yankees will be "all over" Kuroda if he reaches them on waivers.
- Rosenthal reports that the Angels placed Brian Fuentes, Juan Rivera, Mike Napoli and Bobby Abreu on waivers (Twitter link). The Angels are presumably curious about the interest their players draw, even if they don't intend on making a trade.
- White Sox GM Kenny Williams told reporters including Paul M. Banks of TheSportsBank that he has to "speak in generalities” about waiver claims. Rosenthal reported earlier today that the White Sox will claim Manny Ramirez if he reaches them on waivers.
- Indians assistant GM Chris Antonetti is taking on more responsibility as he prepares to replace current GM Mark Shapiro after the season, as MLB.com's Anthony Castrovince explains.
- Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski told MLB.com's Jason Beck that the Tigers and Red Sox never agreed on a deal involving Johnny Damon (Twitter link). Damon, who has the final say, said today that he intends to stay in Detroit, even though the Red Sox claimed him on waivers.
- Reds president and CEO Bob Castellini told John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer that he expects the club to agree to an extension with manager Dusty Baker (Twitter link). The Reds offered Baker a deal last week.
Wouldn’t mind seeing Kuroda come to the Rangers.. He could help us out down the stretch run and he is a FA if it doesn’t work out….
Yankees? Rangers? There is absolutely no chance Kuroda makes it out of the NL.
Most of the NL teams that are in contention don’t NEED him, but he could help out any staff.
The Braves don’t (Hudson,Hanson, Lowe, Jurjenns, Minor) the Phillies don’t (Halladay, Hammels, Oswalt, Blanton, Kendrick) the Cardinals don’t (Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia, Westbrook, Lohse) the Giants don’t (Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Zito, Bumgarner) and the Padres don’t (Latos, Garland, Richards, Leblanc, Correia).
The Reds are the only team that really need him. (After Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez…they are thin with Leake, Wood, and Bailey).
He could make it out of the NL, but who knows what will happen.
Id take Kuroda over Blanton, Kendrick, Westbrook, Lohse, Correia, among others. Just because teams have 5 starters doesnt mean they would be better than Kuroda
I never said they were better. I said that there rotations were set.
All those pitchers you have mentioned, with the exception of Kendrick, are making too much money to not be in the rotation…
When you are going for the World Series, you don’t give a crap how much money they make. Is the couple million for Kuroda’s 3.48 ERA worth it to every team you listed, yes.
And I’m sorry, when you have two guys with ERAs near or over 5, your rotation isn’t set
I understand what you are saying, and I thought about that as well…but the Phillies have already taken on a ton of slary this season. I just don’t see them taking on anymore.
The Cardinals really can’t afford to take on any more salary, the Braves really don’t need him, and the Padres are notoriously stingy when it comes to salary.
We will see in the next few days. If any NL team claims him it will more than likely be the Reds.
I guess what I’m saying is when you’re in the position of the Cards or Phillies, you find a way to either come up with salary space or give up more to get some eaten(I know, sounds crazy with the Dodgers). Like you said, we’ll see.
If you are Ruben Amaro or John Mozeliak and you have to sell it to your owners that adding Kuroda is the missing piece that can get you to the WS, after you have already added salary this season, are you willing to risk your reputation that Kuroda is that piece.
Those are two franchises where adding that player would only be acceptable if it guaranteed you being in the WS.
Jed Hoyer, John Daniels, and Walt Jocketty aren’t under the same pressure to win now, with their owners, that Amaro and Mozeliak are.
The dodgers are all over the place they traded some minor league talent for Ted lilly who I think is being paid by the cubs making it a sale for the minor leagers. Now they want to dump Manny and Kuroda. They would be smart getting rid of Kemp, he is a train wreak in the making. Poor baby was called out first by Colletti, then the no non sense Larry Bowa. All kemp has done was sulk all year as if the effort to play baseball was a great burden placed on him.Of course with Rhinna she is using all his energy up. Put him on waivers and see what you can get for the troubled malcontent.
Ill answer your first part of the post, but the latter is pure lunacy that you are obviously convinced on so I’m not even gonna try.
They got Lilly for two reasons, IMO. One was to try to get back in the race(they got hit with injuries of Furcal and Martin and then Manny didn’t come back as early as expected). The other reason was to try to make an impression for free agency. He is a local boy so they show him what’s it like playing for the home crowd hoping to maybe get a discount in FA. The plan didn’t work, so now they are seeing if they can get anything for the vets that are gonna be free agents
Just because a team has 5 starters, doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be in the market for a starting pitcher. The Phillies could definitely use Hiroki Kuroda. They’re so desperate for SP depth that they just signed Nate Robertson to a minor league deal. Kyle Kendrick has been one of the most inconsistent pitchers in baseball, and really shouldn’t be pitching above AAA. Thing is, Phillies don’t have any other options. No way Kuroda gets past the Phillies, let alone, moves on to the AL.
The Padres could have a very big use for him, considering how Latos will be pushing his innings limit and it looks like they will be playing October baseball.
Maybe, but Jeff Moorad isn’t exactly Geirge Steinbrenner. He would be used to replace Correia more than to keep Latos innings down.
The Padres also have Tim Stauffer who could start, and Aaron Poreda, among others, that are ready to pitch in the big leagues.
I really like Poreda and think that the White Sox gave up WAY to much in Poreda and Richards for Jake Peavey.
That was a face palm trade…they traded two hard throwing LHP prospects for a guy with a history in injury problems…
Oh, they definitely gave up too much for Peavy.
Even if Correia is replaced, the Padres would still be better served with Kuroda. But, if they have in-house options, use them.
Love Kuroda’s xFIP. As a Yankee fan/fantasy owner of Kuroda I hope he makes it to the Yanks.
As a baseball fan I don’t and I’m glad he won’t.
“As a baseball fan”
that is supposed to say ‘As an angry Boston fan’
Ok bandwagon for life.
I don’t know, seems like more than a couple people agree with me.
Call me a bandwagon fan all you want, whatever. At least I don’t hate whole cities…
Yeah because if you hate one and they win the championship how are you going to root for them the next year?
If that was the case, why would I root for the Dodgers, who haven’t won a World Series in 22 years? Shouldn’t I be a Phillies fan, a Yankee fan, a Boston fan, etc? Hell shouldn’t I be a Boston Celtic and Laker fan? Yea, great argument…
and it is different to not like a team, and to not like a CITY
hahaha
The Indians have an extremely solid core in Choo, Santana, Cabrera, Carmona, Masterson, and Chris Perez.
If Sizemore can get healthy, stay that way, and start hitting like he is capable, the rebuiling process will be faster than many think.
Laporta is also promising and they have Chisenhall, White, Hagadone, and Carrasco all in the minors, who sould turn out to be impact players.
Carrasco stinks.
He has a 3.77 ERA in AAA, and he is only 23. Most players his age are still in AA. I definately don’t think he stinks. He will only get better unless injuries hamper him. He will be a #3 starter in MLB, and that is an impact player.
No offense to you, especially if you are an indians fan.. but that really doesn’t resemble an ‘extremely solid core’ as you put it. Indians still lack consistent impact players, I think Santana could turn in to one and choo is already one, but carmona? Masterson? hardly a formidable 1-2, indians do have some good prospects, chisenhall, knapp… but I think they lack the timing and depth to make them successful.. the rotation just isn’t anything to brag about.
At first I was like “no” to Kuroda to the Yanks, but if he’s able to pitch well and help us down the strech I would be more than happy.
Sorry, there’s no chance Kuroda makes it to the Yankees….or any SP/RP of value for that matter…I would be surprised if the Yankees are able to improve any part of their roster this month since they have the same needs as the Rays & BoSox.
The Reds are going to have to offer him more than a one year extension to retain him. That was an insulting offer considering where he has them in the standings, despite that pitching staff put together by Jocketty.
Baker has nothing to do with where the Reds are in the standings.
Ok…I guess managers have no bearing on their teams sucess (I guess only their failures)…
Keep in mind this is Dusty Baker we’re discussing-the killer of young arms in human form.
Though, to his credit this year, he has listened to management and moved Leake to the pen early to protect that arm, and hasn’t he not batted aging veteran players over the better young talent as well? (That’s not rhetorical).
I wonder who Hawpe winds up with…my Rangers don;t make much sense.
Unless Hawpe has already been talking to a team I gotta wonder if the Red Sox will take a run at him after Damon said no. I think Theo took a run at him once and Theo tends to get fixated on certain players.
“tends to get fixated” is an understatement. I love the Sox, and Theo, but the guy has the biggest man crushes. I do remember him lusting over Hawpe at one point but I think (hope) even he realizes that Hawpe isn’t the same player he once was
The Lugo one was ugly.
JD Drew comes to mind. Sure he puts up a solid OPS, but is it worth $14 m a season….when he only plays a 100 games.
According to fangraphs Drew has been worth $57M already, that’s even including the horrendous first year where he hit that huge grand slam against Carmona in the ALCS. Considering the Sox have paid him $56M by the end of this year, I’d say Drew has been a solid investment despite not being able to play 162 games a year.
While Drew’s bat and health have always been hit or miss, his fielding has consistently been one of the top in the league. Personally I think Drew was a good move, especially when you consider the alternatives that year.
They still have 2 years left at 14 mil…his OPS is down 200 points and he hasn’t been solid this season defensively, the Texas series comes to mind where he made 3 crucial errors.
While some would argue that he hasn’t been overpayed monetarily (as of yet), I say that they definately overpaid on the amount of years.
The issue is is that people have this demand for players to outperform contracts, or else it’s an overpay.
J.D. Drew, at this point, has produced to his contract. This is an anomaly that people cannot accept.
kuroda to the Padres.
I wouldnt mind the Braves claiming Rivera if he is there. RH LF who has pop. yea he only has 12hrs this year but he hit 25 last year. he is signed for next year for 5.5 which i dont think is to crazy either. We need all the offense we can get.
it could happen…although he would have to get through the AL first though right? I like the guy…heard he is supposedly having problems seeing though…
One of the raido announcers was talking about it a few weeks back..when he missed a pop up…
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy to many one sided views in this…have the comments are between 2 or three people…
this is getting lame..
take baseball…make your point but dont bitch and moan towards each other for 30 damn posts in a row…jeeze guys
I wouldn’t mind seeing Fuentes and Rivera get moved. Napoli is expendable depending on if Conger gets called up at some point next season, Wilson and Mathis are good enough for the time being. I would hate to lose Abreu though. I really like his veteran presence.
like it said, the dodgers just put him out there to see what value he has. i dont think he will get moved though.
Except that V-Mart is capable of hitting .300 and is a switch hitter. Neither are very good defensively but V-Mart is a better catcher as well.
i would love to have abreu as a tiger he hits a little under .300 20 or more home runs 80-100 rbis a year 20 plus stolen bases
As an Anaheim fan…take fuentes….rivera…
i would hate to see bobby leave tho..
napoli I can go either way with but the guy have hit more homers then alot of first basemen…even ones rumored to be coming to Anaheim…
although hes definitely not a 1rst baseman…hah
Take them all. Here’s my guess of what it would look like:Rivera – doubt he clears. You are talking about a guy who put up 3.3 WAR last season and the previous season before that (when he was healthy) he posted 2.9 WAR in just 125 games. This is really the first time Rivera has been healthy and played poorly. Given his modest $5m commitment for next year I would assume the Angels could get back a pretty decent prospect for him. If not, keep him for next year.Fuentes – doubt he clears. Someone will be interested in adding him as an 8th/9th inning option. They will also have the chance to offer him arb (not that I would though). He should fetch a B type prospect.Abreu – he clears. If his contract ended after this season then someone would claim him. However, he’s not steal at $9m next season and a fairly simple to reach vesting option for 2012. To move him I would expect that the Angels would need to eat at least $3m in salary before they get anyone back of value.Napoli – ton of value. If they aren’t going to let him catch trade the guy. Given his low salary, his position, and his power he should fetch an A type prospect.Now all the Angels need to do is put Kazmir, Hunter, Rodney and Kendrick on waivers as well and see if you get any bites. Kazmir would require a ton of money from the Angels to move. Hunter might be movable without having to kick in money (though he does have a NTC). Rodney’s probably a break-even type move. Kendrick should bring back something … although it will probably be something insignificant.
Also V-mart really isnt a better defensive catcher.
Kuroda is a FA after this season. Why would they claim him for NEXT season, when they can just sign him this winter if they really want him.
Why would they add salary for this season when they are no longer in contention, and were already trying to dump salary with Damon?
Not trying to be a prick, just saying it doesn’t make sense.
V-Mart has improved immensely this season defensively. Scoscia doesn’t trust Napoli behind the dish, that is the only reason both Bobby Wilson and Jeff Mathis are up now.
Gotcha…that makes more sense.
I’m seeing you making an opinion at a time when fans still can’t agree on what a player is worth in terms of dollars. I’m not arguing this as an obsessive Red Sox fan here, I think a lot of regular commentators on this site would agree I’m a fairly even keeled commenter.
Things to remember about the Drew signing:
1) The options at the time were between Drew, WMP, Nixon, and Sheffield (who was never really an option considering once it was speculated he was a Boston target had his option picked up and traded to the Tigers).
2) Drew has been and (believe it or not) still is considered one of the top defensive right fielders in the league (despite miscues in a recent series).
3) In 2008 Drew was 2nd only to Youk in team OPS leader
4) In 2009 Drew was 3rd to Youk and Bay in team OPS leader.
5) Despite him having several injuries… still is a go to guy on this team.
To be honest… with other Red Sox fans, I’m getting annoyed you won’t recognize one of the more quietly consistent players on our team. With non-Red Sox fans, I think you all made up your minds years ago he was worthless and decided that was the end of the argument there.
I think this year has more to do with Baker being given a team by the GM and less by him managing it. As for his history as a manager… ask most Cubs fans about what they think about his ability to manage one of this ages greatest 1-2 punch potential in Prior and Wood.
Game 6 sits at the top.
The elites in the farm in 2007 were Buchholz, Pedroia, and Lester and Papelbon (in their earliest years).
Considering what they turned into… what do YOU think the Sox should have done.
Except a lot of Cubs fans often cite stats that show Wood and Prior shouldn’t have been pitching deep in games they shouldn’t have in their early years. Kinda puts things in perspective about credibility. So since you seem to be on an all out assault on my opinions (and yes I mean plural), let me just put it in simple terms:
1) I believe Dusty Bake is overrated… he was given a Reds team that was statistically bound to break out shortly and it broke out shortly.
2) I’m not the only one who believes Baker overuses his young pitchers which can lead to injury.
I still believe you could have put in any average manager, given them the Reds and they’d be the same team they are now. I’m not gonna say it’s his influence that’s helped this team
2006/2007 offseason:
Papelbon had his first full year as closer. Proved an ace of the pen, untradable.
Pedroia had his first taste of the majors in late 06 and was a starter in 07, turned out to be a great move to keep him.
Lester, yes cancer… even if he hadn’t was one of the better young lefties in the game.
Leaves us with Buchholz… a kid who was considered to have ace potential and has since posted the current top ERA of AL starters this year.
Again… which one of this players do you give away for that great outfielder you have yet to mention? Or do you use the team’s financial resources to sign a guy who is one of the top defensive right fielders of the game who has the potential to (and does) post one of the top OPS stats of your team
Seriously, at this point are you just shooting for an argument? I could site Bob Gibson’s stats as a comparison too. How about Walter Johnson’s stats? Cy Young’s ability to pitch several innings?
Regardless of Nolan Ryan’s ability, despite the fact he didn’t pitch more than 150 innings before he was 24 in his fifth year (Prior did when he was 22 in his second year… I’m wiling to take Woods out of the argument since he had several years before Baker), you really want to compare a single great pitcher who had endurance beyond the scope of 99.9% of pitchers to a single pitchers abilities???
I’m still asking who was better for cheaper and has pulled it off for the same value:
1) A player who has actually performed at the level Drew has for the past 4 years would have cost an elite player/prospect. All of them have proven to be players the Sox have needed.
2) Again, Drew has been a powerful player on the Sox… why do people keep denying this.
I’m still saying this: Drew has earned the $56M we’ve paid him so far and people really need to stop screaming this is a huge failure.
I’m saying different age of baseball and comparing different pitchers. Do you really believe so many more pitchers an age ago were able to pitch on short rest? Is this an arguement about how training has degraded in the last several decades or how the genetic code of baseball players has degraded?
Do you think if the old greats existed today they’d put up even similar numbers?
He’s saying that those guys are special talents that aren’t what you base an argument on, they are the exception. Just because Cy Young could pitch on one days rest doesn’t mean it was smart to have Prior and Wood do the same thing.
There is a certain curve you follow with young pitchers now a days. You don’t treat them like they are CC Sabathia and you are the Brew Crew. You treat them like they are the prize of all prizes. You give them extra rest and hold them to pitch counts. Baseball people didn’t know about many injuries in the 70s, and didn’t know how they could prevent or fix them. And they didn’t care. They let their guys go until they couldn’t move their arm(look at Koufax). However, how stupid would it be for the Yankees to let Hughes throw 210 innings, the Dodgers have Kershaw go 150 pitches a start, the Tigers have Porcello pitch on two days rest? It doesn’t make sense in this game because the game is now protecting your young jewels and having them lead your team for 15 years, not 5….
Your reaching because you like to argue but don’t have the facts. . What you need to realize before you open your ignorant uninformed mouth is that pitchers come up with certain arm strength. In the day of $2 million dollar bonuses and $10 million plus contracts teams are willing to take the chance of injuries with their investment, so strict pitch counts, innings limits and 4 days rest have developed as a result.
Realistically the only way to be able to pitch longer and more frequently is to work up to that point, by strengthening your arm. Only problem is if its not done correctly it can result in serious injury, like the cubs duo that started this argument.
Pitchers back in the day were used to throwing more pitches, their arms were built for less rest. Doesn’t mean that cant happen today, if done properly but no team would take that chance.
Perfect example of this is Dice-k and the japanese philosophy to this day is that throwing more pitches helps strengthen the arm and muscles and prevents injuries.. When he first came here he was throwing 100+ pitches BEFORE a game, then pitching. The red sox, after investing so much money in him said no no, this stops you’re now our investment, what happened? well then he got injury because his arm became weaker.
So next time you just pull out names like cy young and and the 70’s A’s staff maybe get some more knowledge so you can have a decent argument.
You mean that fat sack that’s consistently been one of the worst outfielders in the game and over the last 3 years put up a smaller OPS than Drew?
Yes. I think it was an excellent move for the Astros to pay that future DH his $100M. At least excellent for the Red Sox.
Like I said, it is a different game. Technically, you can pitch your young stud on regular rest for 32 times and get close to 200 innings. And assuming he was a top, high school arm, he probably took 3 years in the minors. Well, you are going to take him from ~50 innings in HS, to 60-70 in his first MiLB season, to 80 in his 2nd MiLB season to 90 in his 3rd MiLB season, to 200 in the first MLB season. That 110 inning jump on a 22 year old’s arm is SOOOO deadly that it takes the injury risk through the roof. The body isnt used to that many pitches and therefore breaks down. It was Dusty’s fault because he let them run out for 200 innings(or whatever the final numbers were) and ignored the huge jump on the body. When you more than double the innings(and it was already a high number), you are asking for injury. And when, not if, they break down, it is the fault of the person who was supposed to be managing these arms… the manager. In this case, it was Dusty.
Which is why they were willing to bench him for Manny…? A guy with average defensive skills, no power… or pay more for a guy with great defensive skills and above average power with a shockingly good ability to get on base. Which do you choose?
Dear god in heaven. Thank you for simplifying what I had thought I had already simplified.
No problem man. I could tell he didn’t understand how you had described it and that you were getting annoyed. Figure I’d step in and help lol
I owe you. I’m so tired of fighting a battle against someone unwilling to listen. Or I’m too stubborn… choose one, or both.
Awesome! I agree I’m sick of J.D Drew bashers. His biggest flaw is how injury prone he is, and that is all everyone seems to talk about when it comes to Drew, but you said it best. He has a great glove, puts up great OPS numbers. He is without a doubt an important part of the Sox team.
Na, I see what he was saying, it is just the game has changed, a lot. Prospects have become like diamonds, and teams need to protect their diamonds, especially the really shinny ones… ohh, I like that metaphor. Didn’t know I could think of one this late
haha, man I wasn’t trying to make this a fight. Hope you didn’t take it that way. And I was in your same spot when I started posting here a few years ago. And don’t worry, I’m only a senior in high school
start wearing purple is one of a handful of posters who was here when I started posted and he is one of a few that I have a lot of respect for as a commenter. He uses stats to back up his arguments, and as long as you don’t use personal attacks or are unwilling to accept when you are wrong, he will show you a lot of respect, as will nearly everyone else. I had to learn this… when you first come onto a site like this, it is very unlikely that you know everything and the very good posters here will tell you when you are wrong without using personal attacks. SWP is one of the posters, and I can say that from personal personal experience.
So let me get this straight 2 players: one of them you’d pay 5 years/$44M despite being average to below average defensively, ok OBP for leadoff hitter, and completely lacks power. But can STEAL! Another you’d refuse to pay 5 years/$70M despite being one of the best defensive RFers in the game and has an better than average SLG and OBP for a RFer. The first has 1 year of postseason experience which he was a small part of and got a ring… the other had 5 years of up nd down experience where his team as a whole didn’t win a ring.
Look… At this point can we simply agree you simply want to come to the conclusion that Drew couldn’t have only been a good signing unless he had won an MVP award.
This year, I honestly would bench ARod for Beltre =P
Its amazing what happens in these threads. If he was responding from his email instead of on the actual site, he may not of even noticed lol
To be honest, that’s one of the nicest things anyone has said about me in recent years.
If it makes you feel any better LDY4L, I know you and I have had our disagreements but I’ve always respected your arguments and our battles.
That coherent statement that I couldn’t make since I’m tired is exactly why I owe you.
On the west coast, but born and raised in NY. Just remember, and you’ll learn this quickly, very few people are here to make enimies. Dont take any arguments personally.
When I first started commenting here, to me it seemed that you were trying to single me out. Looking back, you were teaching me a lot of stuff that I needed to learn in order to not be a biased homer on this, and other websites. Like I said, I have a lot of respect that you are able to make arguments based on stats since I got here and wanted to be able to comment with that point of view rather than what my heart wanted for my favorite team. I have a lot of respect for you SWP
haha, don’t worry. You’ve helped me many a times before
No problem. We were all in your shoes once before. And anyone who reads this
thread is going to be quite confused lol
________________________________
Dude, I don’t even remember getting into an argument about Damon. The only reason I got riled up was I didn’t believe you were fighting with any real belief or giving any real respect.
I’ll argue a point with anyone who disagrees with me as long as it’s a fight that’s respectful. Sure, I’ll throw in sarcasm, but I’ll point it out if someone takes offense. So let’s call this a turning point to our relationship.
I’ll be honest. I don’t recall if my early attacks on you were to make you fight with me using solid arguments or just simply because it can amused me to pick intellectual fights. I don’t believe I ever tried to single you out, but if I did I apologize, you’re one of several people on this site I love to debate.
So consider this my own tip of the hat LDY4L. I look forward to our next disagreement in order to understand both our positions better. That said, good night Sir… it’s after 4 here in the midwest.
Don’t worry, I take nothing personally on this site anymore, and quickly learned that you were friend not foe. And I agree 100%, soon enough something will make us disagree and have a long discussion. I probably should get to sleep as well, even here it is 2am. And this was the night I thought I’d get to bed early….
Thinking back as far as I can, I feel like me and you had a similar argument where I wanted to believe something even though you threw every stat in my face that I was blatantly wrong. And after that, we agreed to disagree on certain topics and gained a lot of respect for each other along the way.
more like because he has been playing first cause they dont have a first baseman, and he played the position in college..
I agree with pretty much everything you have posted…Angels are in definite need of some serious house cleaning…Kazmir and Rodney have been more or less a complete disappointment since being acquired, Kendrick is on his way out anyways I believe with the acquisition of callaspo…as far as Hunter goes…I dont know what we would gain by moving hunter…unless were going to go after someone like the much rumored Crawford. You know how that goes though…you get to read that it may happen for months, then they go to some totally random, unmentioned team..
kinda like the haren deal lmao