Victor Martinez rejected the two-year extension offer he received from the Red Sox, writes Daniel Barbarisi of the Providence Journal. Martinez's agent, Alan Nero, tells Barbarisi that the team's proposal, which was made several weeks ago, was a one-time offer and that there will be no more negotiations until after the season.
As Martinez suggested when he discussed Boston's extension offer, the 31-year-old is looking for a long-term guarantee rather than just one or two years:
"More than anything else, when a team comes to you and says we'll give you a one year deal or a two year deal, they're not telling you that they see you as a long-term piece of their organization," said Nero. "Every player seeks that. Victor, at this point, is looking to be with a team for the rest of his career. It's not a matter of security, it's a matter of trying to get comfortable in one place."
The two sides had initially agreed to wait until after the season to discuss V-Mart's future in Boston, but the team approached the catcher with the two-year offer a few weeks ago. Although the contract was not what Martinez was looking for, Nero says there are "no hard feelings" regarding the proposal and that he expects the Red Sox to have "every chance" to sign his client this winter.
After thinking about it, this proposal makes sense. The Red Sox offered him the two year deal most likely at top catcher money, $13-16m per year, symbolizing that they view him as a catcher for two more seasons. If he wants a four year deal, the team will pay him catcher money for two, and DH money for the other two, with the DH money being between $5-8m per. So a fair four year deal would probably be somewhere between $40-50 million. But it only takes one team to view him as a long term catcher which would completely change his market. I think the Red Sox would give him 4/40, but I don’t know that they’d go much higher than that, and definitely not more years.
Uh oh, watch out. Cue the barrage of comments from the “fair” discussion earlier today.
At first I thought Pedro? Then I realized it wasn’t 2001….
I bet he’ll sign with the sox for 4 yrs and about 60 mil(give or take). Just my guess
I hope not
Competing with Lackey for the worst contract on the team?
Hey..Watch it! Some of the Sox fans will start bringing up Drew.. Yet again..
Drew has been a huge disappointment this year though…
IMHO They wont offer him that much..thats more in line with what Beltre will get..Vmart will get(from the sox) 4yrs 40mil or so..13per for 2 yrs as a catcher and 7mil per for 2 yrs as a 1b/DH =4/40
I wish he would come back to Cleveland. He loves it here and the fans still love him. We have Santana, and hes our future behind the plate, but Laporta is not turning out at first and Hafner is just bad.
That is a easy situation you sign Victor to a 3 or 4 year deal he plays first until the stiff hafner gets done milking the indians for every penny he can get then he becomes the long term DH.
You move Laporta to Left Field every day and then next year your 4th and 5th outfielders are Brantley and Crowe.
And Victor also serves as the emergency 3rd catcher behind Santana and Marson.
I would also look to sign a stop gap 3rd baseman if the Cord Phelps experiment does not work out this winter, someone like Inge.
Signing Victor and Inge would solve alot of issues on this team and if you look at it you don’t really have to sign any free agent pitchers there won’t be anyone that would make that big of a difference from what you have already.
And the addition of Victor and Inge on the infield would make our starters we have better.
vic ain’t coming back people, get over it
If he does that he wont get as much $$ because his value as a 1b/DH isnt as high as it would be if he was a catcher…
oh, and I might add that Hafner’s slash line is better than Martinez in OBP and not far behind in SLG, so please educate yourself before you claim he is “just bad”.
You do realize that Hafner signed the biggest contract in Indians history right? 11 home runs this year, 16 last year, and 5 the year before to our highest paid player, our “slugger?” I’d say thats pretty bad. 43, 49, and 24 RBI in those years respectively as well. Quoting you, “please educate yourself” before you claim hes good. At least here in Cleveland we like Victor, no one likes Hafner.
typical, the red sox can’t keep the players they traded for the previous year.
So you think they should pay Vmart upwards of 60+mil on a 4 year deal? I dont…
I would like to see the Tigers make an offer. Maybe around 4 years 50M.
Theo Epstein needs to realize that the Red Sox have any legitimate prospects at Catcher, and I they do, it’s just one and that’s Luis Exposito, I believe. Could a Sox fan give me his upside? And they would need to sign Martinez to 4 years and if not, 3, with a club option for a 4th. That would serve as a bridge to the younger guys, just like Scutaro is a bridge to Jose Iglesias.
I’m not a fan of Exposito. He has good defense but not an impressive bat. He bat is a question mark
A 23 year old C @ AA w/ 39 dbls, 11 hrs and 55 walks/90 ko’s is nothing to sneeze at. he may never hit like VMart or Posada but he obviously has some gap power and playing in Fenway that be some decent offense. I could see him being sort of like Varitek was 5 years ago offensively.
Yeah. Maybe I just don’t give him credit lol. Idk I just have never thought of him as a really good catching prospect.
Then that’s all the more reason to sign Martinez. Count on not getting any production from Salty or anyone else if they don’t. The catching market is very weak, and Martinez is obviously the best out there. Not defensively, but teams would pay for his production. The Sox are gonna be in a big hole offensively if they don’t sign VMart or Papi. They wouldn’t be anywhere wihout their production, and Beltre can go to any team which gives him the most money. Fans better watch what they say. The Sox record could be backwards at 62-77 and even worse than that without the production of Ortiz and V-Mart, and possibly even Beltre.
Yeah but there is 0% chance the Red Sox let Victor Martinez, David Ortiz, and Adrian Beltre walk and replace them with kids…especially coming off a year without playoffs. The Red Sox will probably sign two of the three.
So I guess this might be Papi’s end in Boston? Assuming they resign Beltre.
They have a few decent catchers in the minor leagues who could become serviceable catchers in the future, most of which don’t project to come even close to Victor offensively but a few of them could come up right now and improve the defense at catcher. Their best defensive catcher is likely Dusty Brown, who is supposed to be very good defensively with a strong arm, but is pretty weak offensively. Exposito is average defensively and has decent gap to gap power but still needs to work on his plate discipline. They also have Tim Federowicz who has good power with the bat but needs to improve his plate discipline, but is also an above average defensive catcher with a very very good throwing arm, he is supposed to be “outstanding” at throwing out baserunners. There is also Ryan Lavarnway who may be the best all around offensive catcher they have (he hit .288/.393/.489 this season with 22hr’s and 102 RBI) but is supposed to have an average arm and average plate blocking skills and is OK at calling games. Then there is Mark Wagner who pretty much projects to be average at everything, maybe a little above average on defense.
They also acquired Saltalamacchia, and signed the cuban catcher Adalberto Ibarra who, while not a lot is know about him, he did bat .363/.464/.525 for cuba in 2008, and is supposed to have the tools to be a decent power hitter. He likes to hit to the opposite field and bats lefty (perfect swing for fenway) and in a workout for the Sox showed the skills needed to be average to above average defensively. He converted from 1B/3B a little over a year ago so his skills are still a little raw but that also means he doesn’t have the wear on his knees most young catchers do.
If I had to guess I would say that (assuming they don’t resign Victor) they would go with Salty and V-Tek behind the plate for now and hope that Ibarra, who’s upside is Victor with plus defense, lives up to his potential. As far as making up Victors offense next season I really don’t think the combination of Salty and V-Tek would be that much worse (this season wasn’t great for Victor anyway) and just having everyone healthy most of next year would more than make up for what little would be lost, plus I doubt catcher is the only position they are looking at changing this off season, if they could improve the defense behind the plate and upgrade, even slightly, one or maybe two other positions I’m sure they would gladly do it.
Just saying I like Ibarra. He still has a ton of work to do behind the plate but a good bat in a catcher is obviously good.
Me too, the guy could be great, and I think that was at least part of the reason behind the 2 year offer.
Theo needs to draft better at catcher though. There’s no guarantee these guys you listed will live up to any potential, and Theo needs to keep his options open. He drafted pretty well with pitchers, outfielders and middle infielders-1B, but they really never had any really good catchers in the minors. They might not find anyone like Jesus Montero or anything like the Yankees find and draft/sign but they could find a decent catcher with tons of upside and pretty good defensive ability.
There’s no guarantee any prospect lives up to his potential, and at least two of the guys I listed are exactly what you said Theo should draft, a decent catcher with upside. Federowicz could be an above average Major league catcher if he works on his plate discipline, everything else is already there. Lavarnway would be a very good major league catcher if he refines his defense, which isn’t bad just raw. Plus Ibarra, by all accounts, has the potential to be outstanding.
23 at AA means he’s old for his level.. Why hasn;t he progressed to AAA, especially when the sox don’t have another (better) catching prospect
Boston more or less had a logjam at catching in the minors is why. Wagner and Brown had Expo blocked at AA, they finally promoted Lavarnway to AA a little over a month ago and he was rotation between C/DH with Expo so they would get AB’s, just like he was forced to do earlier this year and last year at both High and low at Ball with federowicz.
One needed to be promoted and Lavarnway’s bat was well advanced for high a ball, but it seems his catching skills may not be.
Boston already had another decent prospect pushing from low A ball that needed to be promoted to high A ball in Dan Butler, somebody had to move up.. That simple.
Not sure, but think Brown may be rule V draft eligible anyway this offseason since he is not on the 40 man roster anymore. maybe someone will take him off of Boston’s hands and Expo can start out at AAA in 2011.
Saltalmacchia is still there…I could see him in a platoon situation next year. If Ryan Lavarnway can stick as a catcher then he is a very intriguing guy, he can flat out rake.
I’m not so impressed Salty though. He was pretty overrated as a catcher. He could platoon wih someone else in the future is he is still there, but I don’t really know about Salty.
Yeah at this point he’s a huge question mark. The only positive is it seems like his throwing problems have been solved and by all accounts he has been focusing on improving his catching game moreso than hitting. His bat might not be elite like it was projected, but I think he’ll have no problem being a league average offensive catcher at least if he can just become even adequate behind the plate. I can see the Red Sox making a move to aquire Mike Napoli, Chris Iannetta, or another catcher on the trade market too. So if Saltalamacchia is the backup, that’s not a bad thing at all, I’d rather have someone with some upside than a Kevin Cash type.
They have Salty, Exposito, Fedx, lavarnway ibarra and butler for prospects .. heres the report on Exposito Scouting Report: Catcher out of Florida with a strong, broad frame. Has the potential to be an everyday catcher at the major league level, but still needs a lot of fine tuning. Offensively, he’s relaxed at the plate without much action before the pitch comes at him. He’s got a long follow through and a swing that generates a lot of lift on the ball. Makes solid contact. Doesn’t strike out too much, but can struggle with breaking pitches. Above-average present power with the ability to add even more pop. Plate discipline is subpar – he swings at a lot of bad pitches. He also has a long swing, and shortening it up will be key to success at higher levels. Below-average speed. Behind the plate, Exposito has quality catcher’s tools, including a strong arm and good instincts. However, he could use some improvement with his game-calling ability and his throwing accuracy. He also has shown below-average ball-blocking skills, and some scouts have noted that he needs to put in a lot more effort in that area. Very personable – a popular teammate, as he speaks English and Spanish very well. He was suspended for much of the 2007 season for disciplinary reasons, but by all accounts he has turned that around and has been a model citizen and teammate ever since. Exposito was selected as a draft-and-follow in the 2005 draft, and improved his stock by being named All-Conference, All-State, and All-Region for St. Petersburg in 2006. The Sox signed him following his JuCo season just prior to the 2006 draft. According to Peter Gammons, one scouting director indicated after the 2006 draft that Exposito would have been one of the top few catchers selected in that draft had the Red Sox not signed him a month prior.
So as you can see its a crap shoot with him..
I know it won’t happen, but I’d love to see VMart in San Diego. He’s really not a catcher long-term, but I’d put up with his defensive short comings if it meant having him in the lineup every day. I’d love to see a 3-through-6 of Martinez, Gonzalez, Ludwick, Tejada next season.
But, like I said, I know it won’t happen. I’m just tired of seeing guys like Hundley and Torrealba play every day.
Just curious, but why are you tired of seeing above average defensive catchers hitting .250 & .285 respectively while playing half their games in Petco. .250 as a Padre with half of games in Petco = .287 as a Red Sox with half of games in Fenway.
Ludwick is hitting about .210 as a Padre. Would you really love to see more of that?
It would seem to me that Theo just made “Hey guys I tried offer”. To come with a 2 year offer to a guy who is less than 1 month away from free agency seems a little half-hearted. Why would VMart choose to take a 2 year deal this late into the season when he can easily wait another month and probably get the same offer if not much more? True, he isn’t considered a “great” catcher defensively but he is still a rare commodity in that he’s a C with a pretty good bat. The fact that he’s played 1B as well should easily attract 3 or 4 year offers. Not sure what the annual money was that they offered but let’s assume it was a premium for him being a catcher over the next 2 years. For the sake of conversation let’s say it was for 2/$30 which is the average annual that Posada got at age 35. VMart could probably EASILY get a 4/50 mil deal which agreed, is lesser annualy, but is still $20 mil more and offers him the security he surely is looking for at age 32. Any team offering him 4/50 is probably doing so knowing that he probably won’t catch for more than 2 years but should still be able to transition to 1B or DH and still be somewhat of a lethal bat. His OBP is a little light this year at around .330 but I would be surprised to see a resurgence from him next year to a solid .280/.360 line and eventually a move full-time away fro catching should help him boost those number some since his body won’t take as much abuse.
He isn’t close to a “lethal” bat at DH or 1B…more like league average. Even if you factor in him hitting better without having to catch regularly, he’s at the age where his performance should decline at an equal rate. Plus the Red Sox have Youkilis long term at first and two good 1B prospects close to being MLB ready…and a real possibility of getting into the Adrian Gonzalez/Prince Fielder sweepstakes after next year.
14-15 home run power at the high end is not really DH or 1B material. Martinez is worth the money as a catcher, but in a couple of years when he can no longer catch, he does not have very high value.
There is extra value in a player who, his later years, can act as backup or emergency catcher.
Padres sign him and Cliff Lee and aquire Garza
Then the Yankee’s shed 100million in payroll.
…and the pirates add 100 mill in payroll :p
and the rays sell out every home game
Rays Fan 33
hope rays dont trade garza but as for the topic if they cant resign him buck isnt a bad alternative for 2 years if they resign beltre and ortiz they have enough offense to be good.it might not be the popular decision but buck is a player i like.who knows though unless they decide to try for fielder or some free agent like dunn pena ect stick with beltre and ortiz sign crawford or werth still valuable guys
I Wonder this aloud since i havent went heard anybody talk about it . But i wonder if the reds would ponder maybe a 3 or 4year deal with V mart as there catcher then the 4th year rotate him with him and rolen and third cause he’ll be a little old if hes still he which us reds fan loves him. We have no major league ready catchers in the system Messaraco just started hitting this year after 4 years in High A after being drafted outta high school and the other catcher is Yasmin Grandal but he should be more than ready by year 4 maybe if come up and back him up in year 3. One guy i really wanted Walk to try and talk Cashman outta Austin Romine cause our System is loaded with Gary Sanchez,Jesus Montero,Austin Romine then theres the domician i cant think of his name. But what do you think? i would like so also see brandon webb in a reds uniform next year and alot of people talked about it due to how close his home is and he can also work with his old pitching coach agian
auf wiedersehen victor!
A year ago bloggers were extolling the power and skills of Jarrod Saltalimacchia, and rightfully so. He has the physical tools, the pedigree (1st round draft pick/3yrs in Braves organization behind McCann), and, now, the stated desire to play in Boston. Texas misused him, once they latched on to Taylor Teagarden. As for V-mart, good, yes, great? Not hardly. I watched the game where Carl Crawford stole 6 bases against his arm and Veritek’s. Awful, simply awful. Looking at Saltalimacchia’s stats, it is easy to see that he did not get a fair shake, once dealt to Texas. He hasn’t had an opportunity to bat 400 times yet, since coming to the major leagues. Don’t be surprised if, coming out of ST, 2011, he is Boston’s starter behind the plate, with Jason backing him up. Looking around at alternatives, it could be a whole lot worse, especially, if Victor passes on further negotiations with Theo.
You can’t base it off one game. It isn’t like Carl Crawford is one of the most dangerous baserunners in the game and Brad Penny isn’t slow to the plate to begin with. He does have a very good bat for the position.
Your point is well taken but that one experience does cloud most observers’ opinion
of V-marts defensive skills. I know it made me realize just how important it is to have someone behindf the plate with strong defensive abilities and a strong arm. In its absence, infielders are really placed in awkward situations time and again. From what I have read, Victor has made improvements especially in making the long throw to 2nd base but he will never see a 35%-40% success rate in catching base stealers. IMHO, his ability to call a game and to be “in command”seem to be quite average too…. . Good stick, yes….not great, but good, especially being a catcher….but for how much longer? As for Saltalimacchia, Theo has had his eye on this guy since he came up with the Braves and was challenging McCann for the starters job. Once Bobby Cox decided on McCann, to be his catcher, it has been all downhill for Jarrrod. My hope is that he doesn’t turn out to be another Jeremy Hermida, who like Jarrod was a 1st round draft pick..
What a dud that guy turned out to be..
V-Mart seems a little pre-madonnaish to me. Everytime I hear him talk, I hear him mention something about his future. We all saw his reaction when he found out he had been traded from Cleveland, and with a flip of the switch he had the same emotion towards Boston (meaning he wanted to play there the rest of his career).
You are 32 years old, heading for a decline. This is your last chance at a significant pay day, take the money Victor, who cares where you play.
Hahaha….you’re acting as if the Red Sox are the only team that would want him. “Take the 2 year deal VMart. You’re going to be washed up in two years”. Wow…think about this. If VMart and his agent have waited this long then why, 1 month away from being on an open market, should they take a 2 year deal from Boston, unless he’s magically become COMPLETELY in love with Boston in 1 1/2 year?
It’s odd both the Ortiz and Martinez stories were leaked around the same time with three weeks to go in the season. Both were designed to get a negative –public–reaction from the players/agents?