The Pirates are next in our arbitration eligibles series…
- First time: Joel Hanrahan, Lastings Milledge, Andy LaRoche, Delwyn Young, Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf
- Second time: Wil Ledezma
- Third time: Zach Duke, Ronny Cedeno
The Pirates have three locks to be tendered contracts: Joel Hanrahan, Ross Ohlendorf, and Ronny Cedeno. They're all penciled into key roles for 2011 and none will be expensive.
Position players Milledge, LaRoche, and Young are on the bubble. Milledge probably doesn't have an everyday role on next year's club, but he's cheap enough to keep around as a fourth outfielder. LaRoche and Young would fill less prominent bench roles, but it's possible the Pirates could trade or non-tender one or both.
Karstens was designated for assignment in November of last year and went unclaimed. He's probably still expendable. Despite a 6.86 ERA in 19.6 innings (inflated by one outing), there was a lot to like about Ledezma's stint with the club. He averaged almost 94 mph on his fastball, his peripherals were strong, and the team is light on lefty relievers. He may still be non-tendered, but I expect the Pirates to try to retain him.
Duke, 28 in April, is likely to be non-tendered if there's no trade interest. A month ago, 88% of MLBTR readers predicted the lefty will be cut loose. Duke needs a good defense behind him, but if healthy he has his moments.
I exspect Duke, Laroche, and Milledge non tendered due to doing less than what was exspected of them.
I’m having trouble figuring out which joke to make about how the Pirates, players and management, have been doing less than what’s expected of them.
Let me quote every Pirates players since ’93: “for the love of all that is good and holy, please trade me!”
Other than Hanrahan, I’m less than impressed with any of the others. I guess maybe keep Ohlendorf or whatever his name is, but everyone else is fodder.
Who are the Pirates? …Oh! That’s the AAA team that trades away all of their good players to make sure they stay a AAA team competing in the MLB!
what good players? the only one who had a decent season was Bautista and he was nearly DFA’d by the Jays last season. If you are going to basically repeat exactly what every other “fan” says about the Pirates, try and throw some originallity into the mix.
I think you’re kidding yourself if you think Bautista is the only example of the Pirates giving up on players turning it around.
Fine….Jason Bay, Aramis Ramirez, Nady, Nate McClouth, Adam Laroche, Freddy Sanchez, etc. Was that really necessary? They haven’t contended since 1992! That is disgusting! When will all of these “prospects” they traded for lead the team? I mean, look at the Rays. Had a draft in 1997.
Bronson Arroyo
Jose Guillen, Brian Giles.
Do you forget that Giles was traded for Bay and Oliver Perez back when he was good? Its hard to call that ‘giving up’ but rather trading a talent for more talent. And comon, half the league has given up on Guillen at one point or another.
Haha i know. At this point I was just adding players. Also, I never said “giving up.” You did.
Yeah look at Bay, Ramirez, McLouth, LaRoche, Nady etc… where any superstars this year or even solidly above average players? Even the beloved Wilson and Sanchez duo was hurt all year and only Sanchez was useful when healthy – but even then he was worse than Walker was for the Pirates in 2010. I feel like we have gone over this 50,000 times. With those players all on the current roster the Pirates would be a mediocre team at best with very little on the farm and no Tabata who I would take over any one of Bay, McLouth or Nady next year.
I follow the minor leagues fairly closely and I am not a fan of the Pirates, though I do like them, and I would rank their minor league pitching depth and ace potential either at the top or in the top few in the National league.
I know its in vogue to pile on the Pirates and make the same repetitve and unoriginal jokes in every Pirates thread, but NH is doing exactly what I would have done if I was handed a franchise with a few decent regulars but garbage overall depth of talent in the system.
Well said. And sure they let a few guys get away…but that happens to everyone. And I mean everyone…you could probably name a couple of guys for every playoff team this year that their teams wish they had held onto at one point or another
Also, you are just picking this year for stats. I mean look at Bay with the Sox or Ramirez prior to this year. Jus imagine Bay, Ramirez, and Laroche together in ’09.
lolkevin
Yes, but can you imagine the costs of retaining this now mediocre/overpaid talent through the expiration of their contracts? Bay will be paid $66 million with a full no trade clause. Ramirez will be paid almost $17 million. LaRoche tried to hold the Pirates ransom for $10 million annually, but settled for much less to sign with Arizona. Maybe those guys are worth their salaries for a year here or a year there, but the Pirates cannot afford to pay a king’s ransom for even one year’s worth of a pitiful performance (like 2009 for each of these three) and still survive as a franchise.
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I KNOW MAN! Totally dude like imagine, Bay in LF , Guillen in CF, and Bautista in RF with Nady and McLouth being 4th and 5th OFs, then Aramis Ramierez at 3B with Jack Flash at SS and Freddy at 2B with A. LaRoche at 1B still and then Paulino, Doumit and Kendall behint the dish, with a pitching staff of Jason Shmidt, E. Loaiza, K. Benson, Oliver Perez and then the last spot in the rotation being between Bryan Bullington, Tom Gorzelanny and Kip Wells! what a team dude, SCREW YOU NEAL HUNTINGTON AND BOB NUTTING!!! So cheap like why couldnt we sign all these guys to contract extension def would have won 4 world series rings by now atleast!
hahahha BAY and his 6 HRS!! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Oh i forgot to mention about how good Nady and McLouth did this year, great great players!
Wouldn’t it be awesome to see the Pirates randomly decide to raise payroll and go on a massive spending spree this winter? Obviously some of these players wouldn’t sign w/ the Pirates (no offense, Pirates fans), and this is purely hypothetical…but they could sign Cliff Lee for 5 yrs 110 mil, Paul Konerko for 2 yrs 25 mil, Carl Pavano for 2 yrs 18 mil, Ted Lilly for 2 yrs 18 mil, Scott Downs for 2 yrs 8.5 mil, Grant Balfour 2 yrs 8.5 mil, and Rick Ankiel and Jeff Francouer for 1 yr 6.5 mil combined. Non tender Maholm and Duke both (b/c they aren’t very good), and payroll after spending = around 90 mil. Think about it:
Tabata lf
Walker 2b
McCutchen cf
Konerko 1b
Alvarez 3b
Ankiel/Frency rf
Snyder c
Cedeno ss
Frenchy/Ankiel of
Milledge of
Young if
middle infielder
backup catcher (Doumit gets traded)
Rotation:
Lee
Pavano
Lilly
Ohlendorf/McDonald/Lincoln/Morton for the last 2 spots
Bullpen:
Meek cl
Hanrahan su
Downs su
Balfour su
Resop
Veal/Ledezma/Burris
whoever’s left who has the best performance in ST
Obviously, this wouldn’t happen. And that’s still a team w/ holes. But I’m bored at work r/n…and it’s fun to think about. To me, anyway
wishful thinking, eh? lol… i personally believe that the pirates are 2 starting pitchers away from being “middle of the pack”, which they havent been in a really long time. mcdonald and ohlendorf are keepers, 4 really good pitchers in AA ball will be up soon. both morton and lincoln could still rebound. if 3 or 4 of the starting pitchers can give us quality starts, the team will do much better in 2011.
I think what’s sad about that is I’m not even a Pirates fan lol. I just want to see you guys post a winning season for once. Even Royals fans got one a few years ago. Watching the Astros for the last few years has been enough torture for me for a while…I can’t imagine 17 yrs or however long it’s been for you guys
I agree w/ your points though. If Alvarez can hit his stride next year as well, then the lineup probably won’t be horrible either w/ him, McCutchen, Walker and Tabata. Snyder isn’t a bad player, either. Just slightly overpaid
this sounds crazy, but i honestly dont care if the pirates finish at 500 next season. i really like what Huntington has done with the farm system so far and would rather have the prospects slowly come to the show and not deal them just so the team can get 81 wins.
It is tough to respond to this comment because it is definitely unrealistic, but I don’t see that as being a competitive roster anyways. If your dream world scenario happened, the Pirates would trade Cliff Lee, Ted Lilly, Carl Pavano, Paul Konerko, and Andrew McCutchen at the trading deadline and be stuck with bad contracts like Rick Ankiel and Jeff Francoeur.
It is also worth noting that Pirates fans hate Ronny Cedeno. Not that this will influence the decision to tender him a contract, but if the team was looking for a veteran presence in the infield, a shortstop might be a good idea.
-wtk
Boomshwa, you’ve got a great imagination. As much as I would love to see the Bucs sign Lee and Konerko, I’d be tickled if they made upgrades at 1B (and/or RF) & SS as well picked up at least one starting pitcher. The Pirates should make Duke, Ledezma, and Delwyn Young disappear and keep LaRoche, Milledge, and Cedeno (assuming a suitable replacement is acquired) for backup roles. Gavin Floyd & Andre Ethier would be great acquisitions but would probably deplete the farm system.
Fine….Jason Bay, Aramis Ramirez, Nady, Nate McClouth, Adam Laroche, Freddy Sanchez, etc. Was that really necessary? They haven’t contended since 1992! That is disgusting! When will all of these “prospects” they traded for lead the team? I mean, look at the Rays. How long have they existed? Rays -1997
*sorry for double post. Someone delete this if possible.
Yes, Nate McLouth. How many games at AAA this year? JBay and his 3 HR this year? A Ram was traded a long time agao by the prior administration to meet the MLB debt ratios. That said, we got a lousy return. Nady? Come on be real. Tabata for Nady makes that a win, let alone that Karstens, Ohlendorf and D. McCutchen came to PGH and Marte went to NYY. The Pirates started rebuilding 3 years ago for the first time. The “plans” followed by Littlefield and Bonifay were a joke and do not constitute rebuilding. They did not draft well, they did not trade well, but they did sign over the hill, marginal talents like Derek Bell, Matt Stairs, Joe Randa…etc.
I just want to see them have a respectable season, I could care less about playoffs at this point. And I think I’ve certainly seen enough of Zach Duke over the past few years. He and Maholm have been pitching here for many years but they haven’t gotten any better. They rely on the defense too much to get outs, and have too many bad games because of their hittable stuff. It’s time to move in another direction. I think the Pirates should bring in a fly ball pitcher or two. Maybe Javy Vazquez if the price is right. Sign an established guy and a rehab guy for a low base with incentives. I’d really like to see Chris Young back in town. I think he will rebound if he stays healthy.
Oh, darn. And here I was hoping that Pittsburgh would non-tender Ronny Cedeno so that my team could sign him to a minor league contract and let him play in AAA for 2 or 3 years.
the pirates had a lineup of bay/nady/mclouth/laroche/wilson/sanchez/bautista/doumit and the arms of duke/maholm/snell/gorzo… pirates havent won 70 games in 6 seasons. would we even come close to .500 with them? probably not. NH has been in charge for 3 seasons now, and real pirates fans new that the first few seasons would be rough. we see what he has done for the farm system, and the koolaid tastes oh so sweet.