10:27am: Joe Strauss of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch tweets that the Quentin-for-Rasmus stuff has been percolating since the end of the season. One Cardinals front office type told him "Gotta do better than that."
8:38am: Kenny Williams is certainly no stranger to blockbuster trades, and a source tells Joe Cowley of The Chicago Sun-Times that the White Sox general manager has targeted Cardinals outfielder Colby Rasmus. Williams is said to be willing to part with Carlos Quentin in a package to acquire the young center fielder.
"It was obvious that [the Cardinals] were paying extra attention to Quentin at the end of the season, so this might have been something that was already talked about,'' says Cowley's source.
The 24-year-old Rasmus reportedly demanded a trade earlier this summer after which his rift with manager Tony LaRussa was made public, though he later denied that claim. GM John Mozeliak has said repeatedly that he will not trade his youngest regular, but you have to assume that he'd at least listen to any offers made. Rasmus hit .276/.361/.498 with 23 homers in 534 plate appearances this year, and UZR likes his defense: +2.6 over the last two seasons.
Quentin, 28, hit .243/.342/.479 in 527 plate appearances this year, though he missed a big chunk of the 2009 season with plantar fasciitis and is an awful defensive player (-40.6 UZR over the last three years). The salaries don't line up here, which would be one hurdle if the two clubs do pursue a deal. Rasmus is still a year away from arbitration eligibility (four years from free agency) while Quentin earned $3.2MM in 2010, his first year of arb eligibility (two years from free agency).
If Williams makes a run at Rasmus, he's going to have plenty of competition. Earlier this month we heard that several teams, including the Braves, Blue Jays, and Diamondbacks have interest in acquiring Alabama's high school single season homerun record holder. Ben Nicholson-Smith recently put together a list of potential trade destinations for Rasmus, though more than 57% of MLBTR readers would not trade him based on last month's poll.
Probably because Quentin is just a mediocre slugger who can’t field or run…
Quentin told MLB.com how he wants to work on the mental part of his game during the offseason, as much as becoming a better hitter. But with five-tool talent Mitchell back from a season-ending ankle injury suffered last Spring Training and Danks ready to bring his stellar defense to the Majors, Quentin could become high-end trade bait.
Braves have just found themselves a new target
Well… there’s no DH in the NL… so that would be an awful move, considering he’s about as good in the OF as Jason Giambi…
The White Sox don’t have any prospects worth trading a player of Rasmus’ quality for.
I definitely agree there. It starts with Flowers for their prospects, but where would they put him? I imagine they would go with Quentin and Edwin Jackson, Gavin Floyd, or John Danks for an offer.
If they offer one of their starters (they have an extra one) and quentin, and a prospect like viciedo or morel, Im almost sure the Cardinals will at the least consider.
That’s paying way too much. Morel’s a stud and unless the pitcher is Garcia, that’s a pass from me.
umm..no its not and no he’s not. morel hasn’t done anything yet in MLB and quentin doesn’t have much value unless he is allowed to use a jetpack when playing the outfield.
Also keep in mind Quentin was playing hurt most of the year.
also keep in mind, so was rasmus. not most of the year, but a good part of it.
I think that Jackson and Quentin should suffice, but Cardinals fans (I can think of one, in particular) will say no. Adding in a C-level prospect would be my limit.
jackson..one year from free agency. he also got into a brawl with chris carpenter earlier into the season when he hit carpenter on his pitching arm. benches cleared. also got a big salary. i would assume the cardinals dont want him. quentin…well..he just flat out isn’t that good.
So you’re saying that a CF that’s 4 years from typical prime years, OPSed .859, has above average defense, and is still 4 years away from free agency is only worth Quentin and Jackson? Jackson has no value – career 4.51 FIP/4.60 xFIP – and Quentin has proven he’s just a 1B/DH player.
Must be some good stuff you’re smoking.
When Rasmus has shown he isn’t easy to deal with because of the LaRussa spat, that affects the value.
Also, Rasmus posted a -6.5 UZR in center, so don’t just think he’s absolutely an asset on D.
Yes, the years are an issue, but the exchanged level of talent is close, IMO.
While Edwin’s career numbers aren’t great, his FIP has dropped for 4 straight years, down to 3.86 in 2010. His xFIP has dropped for 3 years, to 3.85 this season. And his WAR has risen for 3 years, up to 3.8 this season.
Maybe STL could make a 3-way trade where they sent Quentin to an AL team to DH and get someone like Coco Crisp to hit at the top of the lineup?
oh come on bro, i thought you knew UZR is far to erratic to measure in terms of one year. I still don’t want jackson anyways because he is 1 year from free agency. 1 year…to be the teams #4 starter….pass.
It’s OK to call Rasmus good from 1 2009 of good defense, but not OK to call him bad for 1 2010 of bad defense?
exactly. we don’t have enough information to use UZR yet(for either year). so i have nothing but scouting reports that say he is an above average defender.
While Jackson’s FIP/xFIP have been decreasing, they’ve only gone down from below average to mediocre – he still needs to work on his walk rate, among other things.
As for your 3-team idea, that would probably work best for Chicago. I just don’t see how STL has any use for Quentin when they have Pujols, plus STL I’m sure would want a guy who’s on Chicago’s 40-man back to replace Rasmus’ vacancy.
I’ve never really valued WAR on a pitcher, as it just doesn’t tell the whole story, similar to W-L records.
Yeah, I thought Jackson had a bit more service time. Still I think STL is going to have to sell slightly low if Rasmus is as displeased with LaRussa as it sounds.
“When Rasmus has shown he isn’t easy to deal with because of the LaRussa spat, that affects the value.”
^^^^^
Couldn’t it be that TLR is the one that isn’t easy to get along with?
Well, St. Louis has already picked sides in this fight, and LaRussa is their choice. So no matter who is the difficult one, Rasmus is the one that will lose a fight.
And how long has LaRussa been around? I’ve only heard of 3 players–Rolen, Edmonds, and Rasmus–having serious issues with him. There may be more, but 3 years were just handed to Tony, so it doesn’t matter.
if we get anything close to the return we got for Edmonds and Rolen, then i’m all for trading Rasmus. we absolutely fleeced the padres in the edmonds trade and the rolen trade was dynamite(until glaus got hurt, but he was spectacular in 08).
While I understand that St. Louis has picked TLR, your comment suggests that other teams would not be willing to offer as much because of Rasmus’ attitude and inability to get along with others.
I’m saying that if it’s TLR with the attitude problem and inability to get along with others, the price other teams are willing to pay might still be higher than you think.
Now, if you are saying that his value could be lowered because St. Louis is trying to get rid of him, I would probably agree. However, that doesn’t appear to be the case; and, if teams believe he is getting a raw deal from the manager, that would not necessarily affect his value.
Dont be silly. If Rasmus wasnt unhappy and if LaRussa wasnt egotistical and thin skinned, there would be no talk of moving Rasmus. However, he is and he is, so the value is less because everyone knows the Cardinals would like to move him.
I seriously doubt that the Sox would include any of their starters WITH Quentin for Rasmus….unless they see it as a salary dump but I dont believe that the Cardinals are looking to add much to their payroll. Having said that, you can eliminate Buehrle, Jackson and probably Danks as they are miking quite a bit in 2011…or in the case of Danks, will be getting a hefty raise and will become expensive fairly quickly.
Quentin and any of the White Sox starters is way too much for Rasmus. One poster suggested Garcia but the Sox would have to sign him first
Quentin and Flowers…go for it
Just say no, Mo.
If not only because carlos sucks in the field. He’s really a liability in the NL. If Kenny really wants him he better be prapared to lose way more then Quentin.
I would get him regardless. You lose alot, you win alot in this trade.
Don’t know why StL would take that offer. Quentin is older, more expensive, injury prone, and Rasmus is an asset in the field. Quentin is a glorified DH.
Agreed on Quentin. I also don’t get what they would do with that OF. Would Jay go to center?
Jay would have to be the one moving to CF. There’s no way Holliday spends significant time there. He is better suited to remain in LF.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Rasmus for Quentin. You all have to remember that Mozeliak is not a good general manager.
Quentin is NOT going to get Rasmus in return. No chance, as Mozeliak is going to get a boatload of good offers. Its gonna take at least Quentin, Viciedo, and maybe Jared Mitchell.
Try Jim Hendry out for a year. Then complain.
OOOHHHH MY GOD YOU HAVE THE DOCTOR AS YOU AVITAR!!! YOU ARE MY NEW FAV POSTER!!….. No but i agree hendry is really really bad.
Them come over to the mlbtrforums. I’m a mod there and have this avatar up all over the place. 🙂
Whitesox better be ready to trade Beckham and Sale if they want Rasmus
Viciedo, Beckham, and Sale were the first three names that popped into my mind.
You offer that, and Williams hangs up the phone. Kenny wouldn’t trade Beckham for Prince Fielder, Adrian Gonzales or Cliff Lee, why would he trade him AND Sale for Rasmus. Rasmus is a damn good player, but he’s not worth either of those guys, but then again the Sox have no good prospects outside of them, so this deal is very unlikely.
5 years of Rasmus vs. less than 2 years of Fielder/AGon/Lee.
Huge, huge difference.
Yes, but you are talking 4 years of Rasmus for 5 of Viciedo, 4 of Beckham, and 6 of Sale.
i agree beckham, viciedo, and sale is an overpayment. but i dont see what they would do with viciedo anyways, he is a 1b/DH type. beckham and sale is OK but that can’t happen because sale can’t be traded till like june/july.
You must be on something. Beckham AND Sale. Kenny would be fired on the spot if he made that “deal”. Rasmus is far from a sure thing. The ONLY reason you part with those two is if you’re getting a major impact star.
you must be on something? funny because you sited rasmus being far from a sure thing but fail to acknowledge he is more of a sure thing than both beckham and sale.
Beckham AND Sale? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard since the Ozzie/Stanton trade. I certainly would not trade Beckham for Rasmus, and if Sale is going in a deal, it’s as a centerpiece, not a compliment to a player like Beckham.
you really cant be that excited about that .695OPS from Beckham, can you?
That’s a pathetic statement. People like you fail to realize that the guy will only be 24 next season entering his 3rd season in the majors, this was his “sophomore slump” and he swung the bat very well towards the end of last season and got his average up to .252, which was a huge improvement over where he was before the all-star break, I’d go as far to say that next season is his breakout season, and mark my words, Beckham is a future star, don’t judge a player on half a season’s play when he’s 23 years old.
Its not really a pathetic statement at all. We are comparing two 23yr old guys against each other. Both are future stars, one hit 23HR’s and posted a .859OPS in CF and the other the other hit 9HR’s and posted a .695OPS. Both just finished their 2nd season. Rasmus has posted a 5.8WAR in his first two seasons and Beckham has posted a 3.1WAR. So, explain to us why would Kenny Williams hang up the phone if they asked for Beckham in return?
Because given Beckham’s 2010 play, he’s not going to have much value, and obviously, The cardinals wouldn’t do the trade straight up, it would probably take Beckham, John Danks, Quentin, and another B prospect to get him. That trade alone might fill all of the cardinals’ needs.Sooner rather than later, beckham is going to hit more than 23 home runs. Just food for thought, but it might be harder for someone to improve on their hitting when they’re playing 2nd base for the first time in their professional career, not to mention it is one of the hardest positions, in my opinion.
“just food for thought, but it might be harder for someone to improve on their hitting when they’re playing 2nd base for the first time in their professional career, not to mention it is one of the hardest positions, in my opinion.”
ok, well it might be just as hard to work on your hitting when you have Tony LaRussa as your GM and you constantly keep losing playing time to guys like Nick Stavinoha and Randy Winn and are never able to really get into a groove and don’t get to face some tough lefties. see, i can make hypotheticals too.
Rasmus > Beckham and not really too close either.
I doubt that KW would hang up…but look at it from the Sox perspective.
Getting Rasmus would improve the OF for sure. Hes a quality player. However, without Rasmus the Sox still have Quentin..and he wasnt THAT awful last year. Would Rasmus be an improvement??…probably. But if they traded Beckham, they would have a huge hole to fill at 2nd and they have NOBODY to fill it. Now please…dont try to convince me that Rasmus is BETTER that CQ…Id probably agree…but it isnt THAT much of an upgrade to ruin yourself at 2nd base for the upgrade
So…improving in one area by creating a huge hole to fill in another. THATS why KW wouldnt make that deal IMO.
Quentin and a minor league player not named Sale or Mitchell…maybe
ironically, that is the same reason the cardinals would hang up. trading a centerfielde(rasmus) to fill a need at second base(beckham) does nothing but open up another hole. i don’t see the whitesox as a good trading partner.
It’s not all about prospects. The Cardinals’ greatest need is Starting pitching, after Wainwright, Carpenter, and Garcia, and if you add Gavin Floyd in there, it would clearly give them a better rotation. And Don’t get fooled by Floyd’s numbers, most of the time he has quality starts, but then he has completely mediocre starts from time to time inflating his ERA, same with Danks. So I think Floyd, Quentin, and Dayan Viciedo will be enough to get the Cardinals on the phone. And don’t forget that Floyd had a 17-win season 2 years ago and Quentin had a 36 homer 100 RBI campaign 2 years ago, the 2 players are still in their prime and Floyd could benefit highly getting out of the bandbox in us cellular field, and Viciedo, if he improves his patience and gets maybe 1-2 more years in the minors, he could be an above average player.
you obviously don’t follow the cardinals. the cardinals biggest need is their putrid infield. we can’t have guys like Brendan Ryan, Skip Schumaker, Pedro Feliz, and yes-Yadier Molina, all getting consistent AB’s. Their biggest strength is their rotation? PLEASE their is no need to sell off one of the offensive bright spots from last year(rasmus) to bolster a rotation that doesn’t need much more than a small touch up.
explain to me why the cardinals want dayan viceido. anyways. last i checked, their is no DH in the NL and they got a pretty decent first baseman already. he is a horrid thirdbaseman and the cards have Freese who should be back and Matt Carpenter in the system.
Molina’s bat is acceptable because catchers are important and hit at the bottom of the lineup. The overall hitting abilities of C prospects are improving, but Molina should get a pass for his defense.
Ryan’s an elite defender as well, but his bat is a bit more worrisome.
Schumaker is a joke. PUNT!
Feliz will be gone with Freese on the mend.
I think 2B/SS is still what they need, but there would probably have to be a 3-way deal if you want that, because Beckham’s not happening.
The Cards could really care less if he hangs up.
Sale was just drafted in June. He can’t be traded until next June at the earliest I believe.
he could be a ptbnl
Tigers interested in Justin Upton, willing to part with Carlos Guillen
Reds interested in Hanley Ramirez, unwilling to give up Corky Miller
Funniest thing I’ve read all day.
This is interesting because if the White Sox were to pull this off they would become a much better team. They acquire a lefty bat they is much needed and it allows you to move Rios back to RF. You instantly have a better defensive outfield. The White Sox are only 3-4 players away from being a serious threat to the Twins each year.
Why would you move Rios to Right? He is one of the top Centerfielders in baseball. His combination of speed, athleticism, range and vision makes him so graceful out in Center. Rasmus would play right, Rios stays in center.
Okay, that’s cool. Regardless the outfield would be solid.
Don’t forget Pierre’s noodle arm out there in left.
But he can track down a lot of balls with his speed.
Talk about the arm all you want, Pierre was a + defender last year and made some outstanding plays. A lot of teams would love a 13.4 UZR in LF.
Shoot, with Rios and Rasmus there, all Pierre has to do is exist.
Or just NOT be Scott Podsednik.
If he had trouble with a crazy tea drinker like LaRussa, I can only imagine how well he would get along with Guillen.
You have to realize how much of an a hole LaRussa is, and, although he is one of the top 3 or 4 managers in baseball, he is disliked by many players. Also, when has any player gotten along poorly with Ozzie? He is a players manager, often going way out of his way to defend poor play by a player.
While I don’t completely disagree with you, Ozzie sure does say some stupid crap. I sure wouldn’t want to play under either one of them. I never questioned Ozzie’s managing abilities. Why take it so personally?
I didn’t mean to seem personal I just believe I said the facts.
I’m going to sound like a biased Braves fan here but this is kinda in there hands. They can offer undoubtedly the best package and even if they dont get him they will drive up the asking price for anyone. I still say a package of Delgado, Betancourt, Hoover gets it done maybe add one more prospect if you wish. They would still have a “future rotation” ( and this is not counting Jurrjjens as i think he will be traded also): Teheran, Hanson, Vizcaino, Minor, Beachy. I have figured the Braves will have 9 legit pitchers under control after next year. There is no reason not to make this trade. Im done rambling now.
The Braves have great prospects, no doubt, and you sure aren’t mentioning them as part of your proposal. Delgado is a good starting place…
And what makes everyone think the Cards want A-ballers in return for an MLB CF with significant upside?
I agree. Braves could offer something like Kimbrel, Infante, and Vizcaino and get a conversation started
Although Kimbrel is an attractive piece, he’s proven to be too important to the Braves pen. Infante is in his option year and will hit FA after the 2011 season, so I doubt the Cardinals will take him unless they could lock him up. I honestly don’t see the Braves dealing their prospects for Rasmus or anyone this year, even though they have the surplus to do so.
It has been mentioned that they could move Jurrjens this year, which wouldn’t surprise me. I think the best case scenario for the Braves is to dangle Derek Lowe out there after Cliff Lee has signed and see if we can get a taker.
“although kimbrel is an attractive piece, he’s proven to be too important to the braves pen”
just like how Rasmus is too important to the cardinals because they have NO ONE else that can play centerfield(Jay doesn’t count, he isn’t good in CF). the cardinals have no replacement for him, thus, they will ask for the earth, the moon, and the stars to pry him loose.
then your sorely mistaken. Delgado, Betancourt, and hoover aren’t anywhere near enough. the cardinals will want guys that are at, or close to, MLB ready. none of those 3 are. and none of them except for Delgado profile as high impact sort of guys either, while Rasmus does. your gonna have to give up more than that, quite a bit more.
How is Rasmus “high impact’? His own manager hardly played him. He is a mediocre bat that could produce a .255 20 65 line at best with 500 ab. Once again, St. Louis fans over value their players. Ankiel was the greatest outfielder in the world 2 years ago, Chris Perez was the future Rivera 2 years ago and Brett Wallace was gonna be the greatest third baseman in the world. St. Louis fans always think they have the best players until they leave and fail, then they act like they never thought they were any good. Rasmus will be the same.
you sir lost a lot of credibility. keep in mind he is also a 24yr old center fielder(how many center fielders do you know that hit 20HR’s?). i also haven’t met a single cardinal fan that though perez was the next rivera or that ankiel was the greatest outfielder ever. i have nothing left to say to a grunt that chooses to make up facts and measures success in terms of home runs and rbi’s.Have a nice day
Lol…
I’m guessing you are a White Sox fan that is clearly delusional.
How is Rasmus “high impact’? .859 OPS is pretty good, in fact it may be the highest OPS in MLB for a CF.
please, do not feed the troll with serious responses. you risk provoking an attack.
none of them even played at the mlb level, how can you overplay someone who has only played 2 mlb seasons and already had a better season that most vets ever will, you dont know s*** about baseball tayslacker.
Betancourt is pretty highly regarded man
And 18 years old, in A ball, coming off a lackluster season. Not going to fetch an 24 year old CF w/ plus D and an .859 OPS in MLB unless he’s the toss-in at the end of a package.
Thats why the package isnt built around him solely. Braves are including Delgado too. Hell Taken Jurrjens if ya want too and since your so nice ill even throw in Mcclouth and Kawakami since they are such great bargains and you want a cf back so bad 🙂
And I’m sure the Astros would be willing to part with Carlos Lee to get Rasmus… doesn’t mean anyone would take that offer seriously.
Quentin for Rasmus
Ozzie for Stanton
Kenny Williams is “ridiculous trade proposal guy” in fantasy football isn’t he?
I’m pretty sure he’s the one who wanted my QB Aaron Rodgers for the Tampa Bay Buccanners Defense.
Sometimes I think Cowley just makes this stuff up. The Sun Times stuck him on the college football beat & I think he’s bored.
White Sox should look to get Brett Gardner from NY. They will be in on Crawford.
Trade Carlos to Atlanta for pitching prospects. Sign Damon as DH. Sox got left handed bats then.
Heh. For BG… how’s about Floyd. Thanks. And no the Yankees won’t be in on CC unless they trade one of their OF… which is very unlikely.
Floyd for BG is a bit steep
just trying to improve yanks pitching man…
Yeah, I agree. I would be all for Brett Gardner, but not for anything close to Floyd. Gardner becomes expendable for the Yankees with Crawford. However, I would offer John Danks for Gardner + prospects. I understand Danks is better than Floyd, but Danks will be expensive soon, something the Yankees won’t have to worry about. Danks for Gardner + Gary Sanchez/J.R. Murphy? Yankees seem to have a plethora of catcher prospects with 4 catchers in their top 10 prospects.
Gardner would have been instead of Pierre…that ship has sailed. Sox need left handed power, preferably at DH and in the OF should they trade Quentin. The Sox have the deepest rotation in baseball and it will take a blockbuster to change that.
“It will take a blockbuster to change that”. Well, it shouldn’t. Danks has to be the most expendable player, while also having pretty high value. If this isn’t Danks last season w/ the Sox, then the Sox are going to be paying him a lot of money for 2012. Might as well dump him before he gets that big deal, and while his value is still high. I fully believe that Quentin as a full-time DH will really improve his offensive value. Everyone knows he is such a headcase, and I wouldn’t be suprised if he bad defense effects his offense when he gets himself rattled after making a sloppy play in RF. Pierre-Gardner-Rios becomes your OF, and Quentin becomes your DH, and you are actually saving money, which is going to be a major issue for the Sox this offseason who need to fill 1B, C, and a couple bullpen spots.
Id really like to see reasons why people think Mo is a bad GM? Other than the overpaying for Loshe, he hasnt made a bad move (and no, the Ludwick/Westbrook move wasnt a bad one, it was the right move. They got just what they wanted, and won that deal)We are going to hear this Rasmus stuff all summer now that Tony is back, but I really doubt he goes anywhere. His potential is ridiculous, they would be selling low on him right now. And he is the Front Office’s Gem, the poster boy for the Minor League system.But any trade with the ChiSox would probably start with Gordon Beckham
the only real blow up he made as a GM was the Mark DeRosa for Chris Perez trade. even then, it made sense. cardinals were in the play off hunt and had the likes of Joe Thurston and Brian Barden getting consistent AB’s. something had to be done. Perez and Duncan were unable to ever get on the same page and Duncan was even quoted as calling Chris “uncoachable.” so they moved him. He left in free agency and the cardinals got a good draft pick for him. it wasn’t that bad. the Khalil Greene trade was an epic disaster but seriously, who would have thought that the guy was going to be a psychopath with social anxiety disorder? If someone could predict that, than they are the next coming of Nostradamus.
I predicted that about Kahlil Greene. It had been going on for 4 years in San Diego! Who wouldn’t have thought it was gonna happen in StL?
im sure you did. Kudos to you Nostradamus.
Trading for Pedro Feliz?
And signing Aaron Miles?
And you’re telling me we traded Ryan Ludwick for Cory Kluber and Nick Greenwood and got a good deal?
Mozeliak is suck.
Thing about Rasmus is he was incredibly lucky last season with a freakishly high BABIP of .354. He’s not gonna drive in as many runs as Quentin. People love to forget that Carlos had an MVP season just two years ago, where he was one of the best baserunners on the team. 2010 was kind of a bounce back year for Q and I expect (if he can stay healthy) his numbers to only improve.
you even know what BABIP is? ok let me dumb it down for you. its a measure of a player’s batting average on the balls he puts in play. it also doesn’t factor in Homeruns or Strikeouts. take Player A. Player A has 100 AB’s in a season. in those 100AB’s, he hit 3 home runs and struck out 25times(he is a strike out machine, sort of like rasmus who had almost 150). Player A also had batting average of an even .250, meaning that in those 100 AB’s, he got a hit 25 times(basic algebra). of the total 100 AB’s, he had 3 home runs, 25 strikeouts. so the BABIP is calculated using only 72 AB’s. of the 72, he got a hit 25 times, meaning his BABIP is 25 divided by 72, which creates the illusion that he has a gaudy incredibly lucky BABIP of .347 when in fact, all he did was strike out a lot. Rasmus didn’t have a “freakishly high” BABIP. their are plenty of guys with very high BABIP’s because they strike out a lot(adam dunn, mike cameron, rickie weeks, jayson werth, etc).
You’re officially on my MLBTR short bus list with melonis rex and SPANdemonium. Christ dude, get a life. You just used all that text to try and explain one of the easiest metrics in baseball. Congrats friend. He was lucky. He’ll never have a season like that again. Good day.
i explained to you what BABIP was because you obviously have no idea. i am almost 100% sure that posters on here consider me, span, and melonix more knowledgeable fans than you any day anyways. “Christ dude, get a life” sorry i took the time to figure out what the stuff i am trying to use actually means instead of just splurging it out randomly to try and force it into an argument. Have a nice day.
Ferrariman,
With the amount of time you spend on MLBTR and how I see post after post from you, I highly doubt you own a Ferrari. How could you have a decent job with the time you spend on here? That is, unless you stole one or your Daddy bought you one.
Oh, and I’m sure you know your baseball but I’m a little confused as to why your picture is of Halladay in a Cards hat?!?! Or that’s a pic of you and we need to get you in a Doc look-a-like contest…
im an online stock broker. i basically work on the computer and have a lot of downtime. i do in fact have a ferrari, its a rather old one though and i am saving up for a new one. The roy halladay in a cardinal hat is sort of a fad we have going on in MLBTRFORUMS where we have guys from different teams wearing their favorite teams caps(for example, one guy has andre ethier in a yankee cap). good job using personal attacks on the computer though, kudos to you sir.
this.
jesus.
“”Gotta do better than that.””
To use a common simple phrase: Duh.
no joke, just about every team in mlb is probably going to be interested in rasmus, even the ones that have solid centerfielders and are looking to get younger/more athletic/etc. this can turn into a crazy bidding war.
I don’t disagree with you, but people were saying the same thing about Rolen. Now, Glaus was a decent enough return (more or less the same player as Rolen but a bit younger and less injured), but it wasn’t the haul of prospects people were calling for.
Rasmus definitely has more value than Rolen did at the time, but a team that is trading for a guy because he is cheap and under-control usually isn’t the same team that is going to trade away the same type of player or high-level prospects. And even if all 31 teams are interested, don’t underestimate the LaRussa effect. If he wants him gone, he will be gone, and Tony probably has to sign off on the deal (i.e. not in-division or any team or GM Tony doesn’t approve of).
I guess I’m saying, expect a return of a 4-5 year service time good MLB player or an expensive very-good player, with throw-ins to even it out.
rolen had a huge price tag though(upwards of 10million a year). which almost automatically eliminated teams with budget problems from the bidding war. Rasmus is making like 450k and is one year away from filing for arbitration.
As I said, “Rasmus definitely has more value than Rolen”. I’m only comparing them because that trade did not bring back what people were predicting, and I pin that squarely on The Classy Tony Factor (he was the whole reason Rolen was traded in the first place. Have you ever heard of anybody having a problem with Rolen besides Larussa?).
I firmly believe that Larussa hurts the Cardinals more than he helps them, and the possible Rasmus trade will likely be another example. I agree with you when you say the Cardinals have a huge advantage in having a very valuable trade chip that alot of other teams likely are interested in. But I think Larussa being involved cancels out alot of that value.
Um, yeah, Rolen also had a problem with his manager on the Phillies, which is why the Cardinals were able to get him in the first place.
Besides, everything coming from the Cardinals indicates that Rasmus has never had a problem with La Russa in the first place. He will not be traded.
Sox probably don’t have enough to offer for Rasmus anyway. NEXT!
Colby for the glorified DH Quentin. One Cards front office type said”You gotta do better than that”, thanks, captian obivous. Quentin, Viciedo, and one of Edwin Jackson-John Danks-Gavin Floyd along with KW eating 75% salary would probably be considered. Probably.
Rasmus is so overrated. He has not proven anything at the plate except he will chase the down and in pitch just like Ankiel. He has a good glove, but he miss plays many balls hit right at him. There is no way I would trade a top end pitcher like Jackson, Danks or Floyd and a top prospect for Rasmus unless you are really trying to get a .240 hitter with 20 homers and 50 rbi.
Dude, you’re gonna get ripped apart for that dumb statement.
I am getting ripped apart by people that probably haven’t seen every game he has played since he was in AAA. That is their own problem. I have seen a lot of ferrariman’s posts over time and he has always thought that any Cardinal was better than any player offered in return. It’s cool. I don’t mind being on an island with my point. If he was half as good as everyone on here really believes, then he wouldn’t have gotten benched.
how in the heck does a second year player batting about .260 hit what like 25 homeruns, drive in about 65 rbis and have above average fielding get called overrated. dude you dont know anything about baseball, go back to your little chicago fantasy land where all of your teams are good in your mind when everyone else knows they suck.
23 yrs old – .361OBP, .859OPS…yep, as simple as throwing it down and in
And this is why MLB Trade Rumors needs a dislike button.
I cannot help but laugh at that statement.
Since when is Edwin Jackson a top-end pitcher?
I’ll see your Quentin and raise you
Austin Jackson for Rasmus.
The Sox have starters, the Cards could be looking for one. Mark Buehrle wants to be a Cardinal. Just saying.
The money doesn’t line up though. The Sox would have to kick in a boatload of cash and on top of that they wouldn’t want to deal Buehrle and Quentin while paying their salaries for one player. If they’re going to spend the money why target a young guy, why not someone with track record?
It’s a nice thought exercise but I don’t see how they match up. Quentin isn’t worth Rasmus, the Sox don’t have prospects, the Cards probably can’t afford Buehrle, the Sox won’t pay his salary etc etc….. With AJ being an unknown next year Flowers probably needs to stay with the White Sox so that removes perhaps their only legitimate prospect from the deal, besides, it’s not like the Cards are going to target a catcher in return for Rasmus.
Just don’t see it happening, too many problems. My only wish is that they work out a deal and both teams gets screwed, both teams lose. That’d be a nice Christmas present for a die hard Cub fan! 😉
Yes Buehrle does want to be a Cardinal, but he is also in his last year of his contract. The Cardinals can pick him up after the year. They can do better then Quentin. Nobody wants Jackson because he is too much like a pitcher the Cardinals are looking at to bring back with a bunch of incentives, Brad Penny.
I think the Twins would be interested. Move span to left and Delmon to right. Would something based around Hicks be in the ballpark? you guys get a stud young CF to replace Rasmus eventually. Could add in Kubel and something like blackburn swarzack and then another b type prospect. Hicks, Kubel Swarzack Guiterrez?
no, kubel isn’t that good. Swarzack and guiterrez are ok, but not what the cardinals are looking for. hicks and gibson but the twins wouldn’t do it, but that is what the cardinals IMO will be looking for. i can’t emphasize enough that their will be a monster bidding war for Rasmus to drive up his price tag.
Never said Kubel was that good. He is the 3rd best player in the deal. I included him because i figured you would move Jay to CF and then need a new RF that would be left handed. It felt like a decent enough fit. Honestly I do not think Rasmus is worth Hicks plus Gibson. Either one plus prospects? sure, but both? I could see upgrading one of swarzack or guiterrez in the deal above but not all the way to Gibson. Also no Sano. You can have one of those three but not two. If thats not enough i understand, i was just gauging interest.
Rasmus for Hawk Harrelson.
You can put it on the BOAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.
YYYYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
I like Dan a lot. He loves the Cardinals and I’d hate to have anyone else.
Then we get rid of Al. Dan and Hawk sounds good.
Pierre LF (L)
Rios CF (R)
Rasmus RF (L)
Konerko 1B (R)
Viciedo DH (R)
Teahen 3B (L)
Ramirez SS (R)
Beckham 2B (R)
Castro C (R)
pretty good…i think Viciedo can match Quentin’s production w/o the injury risk.
Keep dreamin’ buddy.
Kenny Williams has put competitive bids for most big name trade bait in the last 5 years. Quentin, Flowers and Santos would be a competitive offer
I’d rather take Buerhle or Floyd over Flowers and Santos. While our bullpen could use some help, Our backstop is currently taken.
Buehrle is interesting simply bc it might be the only team he would ever accept a trade for. The AL Central has his him hard the last couple of years and as much as I’d hate to see him go, he would make sense in the NL. The money doesn’t work, so it would have to be a fairly complicated deal (read: highly unlikely).
The Cards have Yadier… TLR even said a couple years back “I don’t care if he hits zero, he’s the starting catcher”. Sergio Santos, Carlos Quentin, and one of their starting pitchers can get it done i think
Even though in theory Rasmus would be a great addition for the Sox it is a unnecessary addition.
Plus lets not forget Rasmus for some reason had a issue with Tony Lasorda which IMO should lower the value of Rasmus.
Unless they were will to except a Sale plus a low level prospect for Rasmus then I would just walk away.
A team like the indians may even be a better trade partner with Sizemore soon to be traded anyways this season fully recovered and rehabing in Arizona since August and said to be in the best shape since his rookie season, a Sizemore for Rasmus would be a fit for both teams Sizemore signed for 2011 at 8 mill and a option for 2012 and a team like the Cardinals would have no problem working out a contract extension with Sizemore so it would be a win win for both teams.
Who doesn’t have issues with TONY LASORDA…
Too bad the Cardinals have no need for Ozzie.
Don’t burn me for this, JUST a thought but:
Colby Rasmus for Alexei Ramirez and Sergio Santos? The Cards finally get production at SS and fairly good defense.
And then the White Sox have no one to play SS. Beckham is now 2 years removed from the position, Morel only has played a handful of games at SS while in AAA, Vizquel is too old to rely on to play 140+ games there, and Lillibridge is just a bench player. The only person in the Sox system who would be next in line is Eduardo Escobar, who, while getting a lot of attention lately and skyrocketing through our prospect ranks, is still a year or two away from being groomed for SS. Alexei isn’t going anywhere.
Then how about… Mark Buerhle and Carlos Quentin?
Only if the Sox kick in a ton of money. Buehrle would be making $15M, and Quentin maybe close to $5M. Considering the Cards need to be saving money on a Pujols extension, I doubt they want to add that much money.
ozzie gullien for rasmus
Guillien I believe will not be a Cardinal because if he become one, say good bye to Pujols. The only one instead of LaRussa that Pujols might play for is Oquendo.
3 team trade.
Alex Rios + 10M cash (3.33 over 3 years) to Braves
Colby Rasmus to White Sox
Carlos Quintin, Chris Sale, Randall Delgado, Mike Dunn, Christian Bethancourt to St. Louis.
So in your scenario, the White Sox are trading Alex Rios, Chris Sale, Carlos Quentin, and $10M for Colby Rasmus? Not a chance. There is no point in trading 1 of your OF only to be short 2 OF again. Sox need to move Quentin to DH, thus giving them a vacancy in RF. In your trade, they now have a vacancy in RF still (Rasmus to CF), but also now at DH. Not a sensible trade at all.
I would be extremely unhappy with the cardinals trading rasmus, 24 years old and already a top hitter in the lineup and above average defense? YOU CANNOT TRADE HIM!