We know that the Orioles have varying levels of interest in Tsuyoshi Nishioka and Jorge de la Rosa, as well as J.J. Hardy and Jason Bartlett, but here's the latest from Charm City…
- MLB.com's Brittany Ghiroli reports that the O's continue to have discussions with Koji Uehara, Ty Wigginton, and Cesar Izturis. The issue with the first two is contract length, and the fate of the last two is tied to what kind of bat the team brings in.
- Jeff Zrebiec of The Baltimore Sun wonders if Victor Martinez is exactly what the Orioles need. He says that "by all accounts," Peter Angelos, Andy MacPhail, and Buck Showalter are high on V-Mart and he is "one of their top offseason priorities."
- MASNSports.com's Roch Kubatko speculates that Jon Garland could again be connected to Baltimore, as he has been for the last two offseasons. He doesn't see either Zach Duke or Manny Ramirez fitting in with the O's.
Penciling in V-Mart at 1B/C/DH would help out Baltimore a lot. They need lots of help, but some young guys are getting closer to breaking out and a switch hitting power bat wouldn’t hurt
Though as an Orioles fan I am not high on VMart I kind of like the idea of shafting the Red Sox because if the Orioles were to sign both Beltre and VMart, Boston would only get a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder as compensation as the Orioles’ 1st round pick is protected. In a draft that is supposed to have a lot of good talent, that might be a good strategic move…
What exactly is strategic about giving Boston two additional picks in a deep draft while overpaying greatly for players that Boston will allow to leave?
They are going to get picks for them anyway. They could even get two first round picks. By the Orioles signing both, you knock them down to a 2nd and 3rd round pick (as well as compensatory picks they’d get anyway). In a loaded draft, that’s huge as the Orioles would keep them from that extra 1st round talent.
I just want to be clear here:
You’re advocating giving 100+ million to Beltre and Martinez to ensure Boston gets a 2nd and 3rd rounder (plus two supplemental picks) instead of a 1st and 2nd rounder? Genius.
Keep your crazy confined to the O’s hangout. At least those folks know you’re nuts.
Well we need both players in reality. Fielder and Gonzalez may not be available, so Martinez is a suitable alternative especially for his ability to hit LHP and Beltre is the best 3B option that will be on the market for the next several years and the other options via trade or FA are inferior. The shafting Boston part is just a bonus…
Good job of squirming into that arguement. However, Boston has needs for both Beltre and Martinez and if they come to Baltimore, it’s because we’re giving them stupid money and/or stupid years.
Not only that, giving 100+ million to Beltre and Martinez AND giving up the two picks that Boston ends up getting. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face…
But Boston would lose their 1st rounder! 😉
What the Hell are u talking about????
Another poster was suggesting the Orioles sign Martinez and Beltre to prevent Boston from getting an additional first round pick for free agent compensation. That’s all. No reason to get excited.
His improper use of grammar(their) meant he was talking about Bostons pick by default! Don’t help him butcher the English language by agreeing with his mistake. You make everyone look bad by doing it!
Ahhh…. nothing brings a smile to my face like a completely oblivious Red Sox fan. You, sir, have made me decide to like OrangeCards’ post!
Give yourself a hand!
Give yourself a hand!
It doesn’t really matter. The thing about this deep draft is that the late 1st round guys are going to be as good as those 2nd and 3rd round picks the Sox get. Once you get past the top guys in this draft and into the second tier it is pretty big. That is why scouts say this is a loaded draft.
I doubt that the Orioles will offer over what the Tigers/Redsox are willing to spend. Orioles used to have a good fan base but the owners seem content on killing it by continuing to let them flounder. Since that is the case you should trade Markakis to the Tigers for some prospects and go the Tampa route. What would it take? Oliver/Raburn/Porcello for Markakis
They aren’t looking to move Markakis. They’ve already done the Tampa route and are building their organization around the young arms.
You might be surprised by the Orioles moves this offseason.
Iirc the O’s get money from the network that was formed when the Nat’s were moved to DC so they might have money to burn on FA this year. The way they were playing at the end of last season, I think they might surprise a lot of people this year.
Andrew Oliver, Ryan Raburn, Rick Porcello for Markakis? Not even close.
Just to be clear, you want to send a decent but unspectacular pitching prospect, a 29 yo bench bat, and a former top pitching prospect for Nick Markakis? Rick Porcello would be the fifth-best pitcher on the Orioles right now, and that’s not even counting Zach Britton.
Raburn’s (29)last two years combined: 631AB 98R 362b 31HR 107RBI .285avg .341obp.
Markakis (27)last year: 629AB 79R 452b 12Hr 60RBI .297avg .370 obp. Now you may say Raburn is a bench player but he struggles with it. He is much better when played full-time as the Tigers have done at the end of each of the last two years. Oliver has huge upside as a power lefty. And Porcello suffered a sophmore slump. To say he would be 5th at best on the staff is ignorant. Especially considering no one other than Guthrie came close to sniffing an ERA under 4.00 He had a 3.96 ERA (27 GS) at 20 and a 4.98ERA (31 GS) last year at 21 which only tells half the story as it was above 7 halfway through the year.
Guthrie is obviously better. Matusz had an up and down year but ended it on a 2.5 month upswing. Bergesen’s results the last two years have been comparable to Porcello’s, and BB fought off (non-pitching-related) injuries to do it. I’ll grant that Porcello has more upside but I’m not sure he’s better right now. Jake Arrieta has just as much upside and pitched about as well as Porcello last year. So yes, 5th best. Plus the O’s already have other high upside youngsters like Tillman and Britton.
I may be wrong (I think you could reasonably argue 3rd best, behind Matusz and Guthrie), but there’s no way I’m ignorant.
Ryan Raburn reminds me of four guys who are basically the same: Ryan Ludwick, Luke Scott, Josh Willingham, and to a somewhat lesser extent Cody Ross. And we’ve seen Ross’ and Ludwick’s trade value.
Guthrie is 30 and is a 2 or 3 who the Orioles are trotting out as a 1. Matusz has potential ace stuff but I’m not a fan of lefty aces. Oliver is very similar to Matusz in fact. consistant 94-96 fb with good breaking pitches. Porcello is a potential ace that you would have had to watched game 163 his rookie year between Minn-Det to realize what a stud he really is. And Raburn has put up better production numbers the last 2 years albiet in a limited roll. Not to mention the 12-15 mil/yr coming off the books. In all reality it’s a fair deal. I just hate to see Markakis’s talent being wasted on a team who’s ownership isn’t willing to try and build around it’s key players. They seem content on just pushing the .500 envelop and blaming it on a tough division. Even the Bluejays atleast attempt to unseat the big 3.
Porcello definitely has upside. But lots of guys have upside. The Orioles, in fact, are chock full of young pitchers with upside. Whether any of them come close to fulfilling that potential is another story. My statement was a pretty simple one, you called it ignorant, and now you’re making some different argument. I’ll repeat: the Orioles have 4 pitchers who are better than Porcello right now. One of them is older, and one of them doesn’t have the same upside, yes. But this doesn’t alter the basic statement.Now, I like what I read about Andy Oliver, but there’s no way he’s similar to Matusz. Matusz lacks the power fastball (he was orig reported around 90-92, and he was throwing more like 89-90 this year), but he has excellent command and control and 3 above-average secondaries. Oliver has more power on his FB but worse control and his secondaries are inconsistent. He may even have the potential to be better than Matusz, but he’s nowhere near as close or as likely to achieve it.Ryan Raburn could be the latest in a slew of late arriving, defensively weak, above-average but not awesome hitting corner OFs. He could definitely be a valuable piece in a trade. But he won’t be the headliner, that’s for sure. At best, he’s Luke Scott (who was, remember, not the best guy in the Miguel Tejada trade: he was less valuable than Troy Patton, the Astros best pitching prospect).I don’t think the Orioles are going to trade Nick Markakis. He’s young, good, a fan favorite, and an all-around good guy. He could easily wind up being as important to the franchise as Brady Anderson. If they ARE going to trade him, they’ll need to be blown away. Plus, given the current state of the O’s farm, they need: A+ and AA pitchers, power hitters (1B and OF) at all levels, and immediate help at 3B, SS, and 1B. The Tigers don’t really meet any of those needs – they have very young pitchers, bullpen arms, and some young SSs.Having read a bit more about Oliver, I guess your original trade wasn’t terrible from a value perspective – it’s similar to the 2007 Tejada return (Porcello is a little better than Patton, Raburn is a little worse than Scott, Oliver is equal to the other three). But it doesn’t really meet the Orioles needs, and I’m not sure that 2 yrs of Tejada circa 2008 is more valuable than Nick Markakis’s prime.
No, I’m just not going to have a knob contest on whether or not you think 5 Orioles pitchers are better than Porcello. When Porcello finishes this year with a 3.5-3.75 ERA and 15+ wins while still only being 22 and the Orioles’s P are patting each other on the back for maybe getting under 4.50 we’ll chat then. Blame your ownership for wasting Markakis’s talent and not getting supportive players for the good players they have instead of overvaluing what you have. My Tigers aren’t the best but atleast I know my ownership isn’t afraid to atleast try and make something happen.
Victor Martinez doesn’t look to be a fit in Baltimore unless the O’s were thinking of trading Wieters (and I’m sure they’re not) or Luke Scott; though he could replace Scott really only if agreed to DH alot. I guess they could platoon Martinez between catcher and DH with an occasional start at 1B, but the O’s need a real full time first baseman with real power who is decent defensively. VMart isn’t really that guy just like Luke Scott isn’t really that guy. It would be great to have Martinez in Baltimore since he crushes lefties and is well respected for his attitude and presence, but he doesn’t really fit at first.
The Orioles should sign Victor Martinez. Past Adam Dunn, V-Mart is the most perfect free agent fit for them.
But, of course, they won’t do it. Andy MacPhail hasn’t made a single significant free agent acquisition in his 20 year career as an front office executive. Why would that change now?
i think vmart will end up with the tigers
Hey O’s Fans, Do you still want to get M.Reynolds? I know everyone would love to sign Beltre but is Reynolds the back up plan?
He’s a popular target on an Orioles site I follow.
I like him too, but I’m not a fan of giving up David Hernandez to get him. Some other bullpen arm, Josh Bell, maybe another minor league arm? I really have no idea what Arizona is looking for, be it major league ready players or salary relief, nor do I know what other teams would be willing to offer.
Josh Bell is worth more than David Hernandez…. Hernandez has the potential to be a good closer (over the past 3 seasons, the most valuable reliever in the majors, Mariano Rivera, posted a 6.9 WAR, or 2.3 WAR each year). Bell has the potential to be an everyday, unspectacular 3B (17 third basemen had a WAR of above 6.9 in the past 3 years). what’s more likely – Hernandez becomes Mariano Rivera, or Bell becomes one of top 17 third basemen in the league? actually Hernandez’s best case scenario is probably 1.5-2 WAR, which sets the bar considerably lower – Alberto Callaspo, Jose Lopez, Juan Uribe, and Jhonny Peralta are some of the third basemen who had more than 4.5 WAR over the past 3 years.
Bell’s upside is an everyday player. However, the likely hood of him reaching that ceiling isn’t very high. He hasn’t put up great numbers above AA and looked completely over matched during his call up.
Also, keep in mind how the league values these guys. The Orioles acquired both Bell and Steve Johnson for a Sherrill. Since the trade, Bell’s stock has only dropped. The Marlins just traded Maybin for two relief arms.
I just don’t think Bell is all that likely to pan out whereas Hernadez still has starter potential. He’s only in the pen in Baltimore out of need and the presence of Matusz, Tillman, Bergesen, Arrieta, Britton and others.
O’s should be looking for a big bat,shortstop and some bullpen arms then they can push the Redsox to the bottom of the division
You’re the reason i love taking my son to Camden Yards every summer to watch youre team take a beating by the Sox! The team sucks but the crabcakes make it enjoyable!lol!
Perhaps you should be taking “your” son to the library to work on his English skills so that “your” son doesn’t grow up as ignorant as his father.
Looks like “You’re” taking your teams failures verrrry personally! Lol!
I thoroughly enjoyed seeing “YOUR” team in the playoffs…
Didn’t the Orioles and Red Sox split the season series last year? And don’t the Red Sox only have a fan base that’s been this arrogant since ’04. Fair weather fans from Bahston sure enough didn’t come down and “take over” Camden Yards before then.
Didn’t the Orioles and Red Sox split the season series last year? And don’t the Red Sox only have a fan base that’s been this arrogant since ’04. Fair weather fans from Bahston sure enough didn’t come down and “take over” Camden Yards before then.
Point being “we have taken over Camden Yards”! I never knew Baltimore was full of Frenchmen! lol!
Why can the Orioles spend all this money all of a sudden? It all seems pretty unlikely to me. They are probably going to finish last place again in a tough division, and a few bad contracts are not going to get them any further than 4th place, so I’d say they hold off a few years.
because the owner is rich? when we last made the playoffs in 1997, we had the second biggest payroll behind only the Yankees (and in 1998 we actually surpassed the Yankees). last year our payroll was around $73 million, but as recently as 2007 it was around $94 million, and in the late 90s it was actually above $100 million if you adjust for inflation
More like 3 years 9 mil for Vazquez
The Orioles 2main concerns should be a 1st basemen and a shortstop. They need to work out a trade to get JJ or Bartlett both these guys are a upgrade over Izturis and Andino. I would try to sign Dunn to play 1st base i dont care if his defense sucks. V marts defense is probly just as bad and i dont see him taking much playing time away from Wieters and Luke scott. Maybe Wiggington will come back to play 3rd base. There is no point in breaking the bank for Adrian Beltre when he will block Josh Bell. I would look into bringing Melvin Mora back. The guy can play better defense and is more flexable then wiggington cheaper too. They should bring back Koji too the guy is a awsome pitcher just dont over use him or he will end up on the DL. Sign a couple pitchers who never panned out to minor league contracts with invites to spring training and see if they can crack the rotation. Force are young starters to earn there spot or force there promotion.
What is with all the V-Mart 1b talk. Why not sign Adam Laroche and save the $. More power but lower obp. At least you know what kind of defense you will be getting.
Last season he was primarily a catcher, but hopefully he can not be like Adam Dunn and see what’s best for him and the team. Having a split like 2009 is the best use of his skills, about 60% at catcher, 30% 1B and 10% DH, give or take
Edit: Forgot about Wieters, if he improves, switch Martinez’s splits at 1B and C
I did forget about Weiters, so those splits don’t matter anymore. Hopefully he would put the interests of whatever team he signs with in mind. He’s versatile, but his defense at catcher isn’t great. His glove liability can be hid better with constant time at 1B/DH, that’s what I was imagining by saying he could really add to the O’s. But of course if someone is willing to give him much more time at catcher, like say Detroit, then he won’t go to Baltimore
What’s this about “full time catcher money”?
Regardless of what position he plays, Martinez isn’t getting paid for his defense. The fact that he’s a catcher has nothing to do with it. Baltimore is going to have to pay Martinez “20 home run hitting switch hitter” money, and that’s all there is to it.
Your the dreamer…redsox finished 3rd in the division this year,say hello to 5th in 2011
A switch hitting career .307 RISP hitter who is equally dangerous from both sides of the plate and drives in 100 RBI’s in limited at-bats. Where he goes depends on how much he really wants to catch. Only the Sox are offering him fulltime catching duties. So it depends on how much he thinks he might get into the HOF and how much turning into a DH will affect that. Tigers will offer more than Sox and Orioles but will only DH him while backing up Avila and occasionally maybe spelling MCab at first. Plus the Tigers have the Venezuelan connections. However, the Sox will offer more than the Orioles but they will give him fulltime catching duties. The Orioles only chance is if they offer competitive money and fulltime 1B duties. This would give him an opportunity to save his knees but still play in the field and it’s something I don’t think either the Tigs or Sox will offer.
HOF for Martinez? Is that a joke?
That said, he’ll likely take the biggest contract with some consideration for the opportunity to win.
Note how I said “he thinks”. Why do you think Dunn doesn’t want to DH. Because for some odd reason, I think, he see himself as a possible HOF and doesn’t want DH time to affect that. Which is an even bigger joke than VMart. Atleast in VMart’s case there hasn’t been a huge line of good offensive catchers.
Our nightmare is third place, which wold be a fantasy finish for a Baltimore fan! 3rd place which you have no chance of achieving for at least 3 more years as a O’s fan! Ouch!
If we’re talking about Joe Mauer*, then I’m with you. But we’re talking about Victor Martinez. This is a guy who no one believes can stick at catcher for the duration of a four year contract. This is a soon-to-be 32-year-old who has missed considerable time in two of the past three seasons. This is a guy who has logged 146 games at first base over the past five years.
Sure, I guess the fact that he can squat behind the dish adds some to his value, but it’s certainly not the main consideration.
All teams, and especially teams like Baltimore, are going to be paying V-Mart for his offense, and then they’ll going to figure out where to put him in the field.
*I realize that Mauer isn’t a switch-hitter.