The Red Sox are in the news every day right now; here's the latest…
- The Sox have not finalized a list of managerial candidates to interview, reports WEEI's Rob Bradford. Name candidates such as Joe Torre, Tony La Russa, and Bobby Valentine are not thought to be on Boston's list, writes Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com. Instead, the top candidates appear to be Dave Martinez, Pete Mackanin, and Sandy Alomar Jr. It seems possible that the Red Sox will have to go head-to-head with the White Sox in their manager search. McAdam notes that as a member of the coaching staff of former manager Terry Francona, DeMarlo Hale is unlikely to be interviewed.
- The Cubs asked the Red Sox permission to speak with GM Theo Epstein, reported Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe yesterday. Red Sox management spent the day discussing the request; WCVB TV's Mike Lynch wrote that they could ask for compensation just to talk to Epstein, or they could collect compensation later.
- The relationship between Epstein and Red Sox president Larry Lucchino has gotten much better, according to Peter Gammons.
- Bradford takes an in-depth look at the Red Sox pitching staff. He finds the team unlikely to pursue a big-name starting pitcher. Bradford feels Daniel Bard and Alfredo Aceves could be starting candidates next year, Andrew Miller's $3MM option will be exercised, and Tim Wakefield might have to continue his career elsewhere.
No team can knock the Red Sox out of the media playoffs.
so good
Bard a starter?? Miller is coming back?! WHY!
Bard a starter would be a good thing. He’s developed a solid change and a nasty slider. For certain, he would be a whole lot better than Lackey or any other potential #5 starter. I love the idea.
Until he loses his velocity in the 2nd inning. He’s a reliever for a reason.
Right? Didn’t they learn anything from watching the Yanks and Joba?
No. But they did watch the Rangers and Ogando.
and CJ Wilson for that matter..
wainright
I don’t think they’ll hire a manager until the GM situation is resolved.
I think its a foregone conclusion that the Sox are going to try to lure Sabathia away from the Yankees.
Agreed. If for no other reason than to drive his price up.
The Sox are in touble as far as pitching goes, the Yanks and Rays will have better pitching next year. CC and CJ will be with the Yanks because they will give them the most money.
Even if the Yankees do end up signing CJ they would have CC, CJ, ??, ??, ?? and the Rays having better pitching isn’t a surprise to anyone.
The Red Sox aren’t exactly in trouble as far as pitching goes though; Lester, Beckett Buchholz are all good pitchers and there is almost zero chance Lackey is this bad again.
Those front 3 are as good as anyone can run out short of Philly and the Giants, then the 3m gamble with Miller is little different than the FA signings the Sox have made with other FA in the past, Smoltz, Colon, Penny etc.. Only Miller is not hurt. It’s a good one to make and the money is not bad for a guy who was up and down in his short time and had a couple of good games at the big league level.
Get a couple more rehab level relievers to invite to ST, think about the closer situation and it should be a finished product entering ST unless they can find an established right fielder and the price is right.
Even if the Yankees do end up signing CJ they would have CC, CJ, ??, ??, ?? and the Rays having better pitching isn’t a surprise to anyone.
The Red Sox aren’t exactly in trouble as far as pitching goes though; Lester, Beckett Buchholz are all good pitchers and there is almost zero chance Lackey is this bad again.
The Sox are in touble as far as pitching goes, the Yanks and Rays will have better pitching next year. CC and CJ will be with the Yanks because they will give them the most money.
watch as this plays out people cuz this has drama written all over it this winter. im calling it now, CC to Boston!
I wouldn’t be surprised if they signed him to an extension instead of him opting out.
watch as this plays out people cuz this has drama written all over it this winter. im calling it now, CC to Boston!
let’s trade epstein for scoscia. of course the sox has to include 2 top prospects to even out the trade.
Why would the Angels make that move. Scioscia isn’t going anywhere.
more like epstein, ellsbury and pedroia. and in case in no one has point this out to you yet, the sox currently do not have any top prospects. they are stocked with at best, a bunch of c+ level players at the moment. i’m not the first person to say this, so..
You’re not the first person to be wrong about it either (well, I suppose the term “top prospect” is fairly subjective, but assuming you mean something like top 50, you’d be wrong).
someone help me quickly…..if the red sox tried to pull a yankees move and wined and dined CC (what cashman has admitted to) and then the yankees were left without CC. Who would be available in trade and what would it take…..seriously think of that gap. AJ, Hughes,Nova,and………..
Off the top of my head: Zambrano, Zito, Lackey.
We’ll give you Lackey for free actually.
I think we’d even pay them to take Lackey from us at this point.
This hysteria concerning CC’s opting out has been way overblown. CC will most likely opt out and get an extension from NY in years more so than money. He likes it in NY, has built a house in the area, his kids go to good schools and he doesn’t have to go through all the nonsense that Boston has become recently.
While Boston may offer an increase in salary, the Yankees are not going to be outbid when they feel they have to get someone they want. CC is not going to pick up roots and disrupt what has been a smooth ride in NY to risk going to a less than favorable situation that the RedSox have become. He signed with the Yankees not just for the money, he wanted a stable and hassle-free clubhouse environment and a chance to be in the play-offs every year. That’s the reason for the opt out clause in the first place.
Not to kick a fallen horse, but that doesn’t sound like the Red Sox at this time.
Good point, the Yanks will offer CC and CJ the most money!
Good point, the Yanks will offer CC and CJ the most money!
The Boston gap is all that much better, isn’t it…? Beckett, Buccholz, Lester, Lacky and…
Hey man, I agree with your first post, but the Sox situation is a lot better than ours if we don’t have CC. Lester, Beckett, and Buccholz is a pretty solid 1-3. And while we joke on Bedard’s injury risk, he’s really good when healthy… if they re-sign him. Innings eater in Lackey at the back end, and a few pieces as backups if (when) Bedard goes down, and they’re set.
With the Yanks, Nova becomes the default ace… which he is not. And AJ and Hughes have been wildly inconsistent. No way Colon and Garcia repeat their performances if they are re-signed.
CC is a must!
Granted, CC would be the difference in any rotation. My point was that, while those 4 guys are talented and do have a better resume as well as stats and metrics,than the Yankees trio, paper doesn’t win games! The last two years, they’ve been like the rest of us during post season-spectators!
Were the Yankees to lose CC to anyone other than the Red Sox, I’d feel comfortable with what the Yanks could bring up from either the minors or Free agency to compete.
If Theo leaves then you know the Sox are in trouble, because if he thought they were going to be great he wouldn’t leave.
That’s not necessarily the case, there are other reasons to leave besides just thinking the team has no future.
If Theo leaves then you know the Sox are in trouble, because if he thought they were going to be great he wouldn’t leave.
Why not go after CJ Wilson or the lefty they wanted from the Mets, keep Wakefield in pen and emergency starter let him finish his career here. They also are going to need a right fielder Wilingham from Oakland is available right?
Don’t know if it’s changed, but Wakefield has a team option every year for $4 million. In perpetuity. Someone once labeled it the most team-friendly contract in sports. If he’s not effective, of course that’s a waste, but a) with knuckleballers you never know, and b) you can plug him into any role and know he won’t disappoint you. I think that guy’s worth keeping around. (Of course, maybe they’re just looking to do so for less.)
I believe the team option no longer exists because the Sox declined it and signed Wake to a 2 year deal instead. I totally agree that Wakefield, at the price the Sox pay, is a bargain and they should keep him around for a while longer.
Don’t get me wrong I like Wake, but didn’t Tito make some comments about being unable to reach players he previously could, and alluded to some being more concerned about their personal situations than the team? I think everyone figured he was referring to Lackey, but those comments could also be construed as referring to Wake and his pursuit of milestone wins. Pure speculation on my part (of course), but I wonder…
wakefield in negotiations: “i think your fans deserve to see me pitch”
every GM’s response: “…we have pretty strong attendance figures at our AAA games”
I propose the Cubs trade Zambrano and Soriano for Epstein and his Asst. GM. We will throw in $25 million.
Throw in a shrink too. It’s not for Zambrano, but for the fanbase.
Heard Chicago had a massive burnout on Shrink field going through Bradley, Zambrano, Hendry etc….
Zambrano and Soriano for Epstein and Cherington? Why would the Red Sox ever do that…ever.
Sympathy?
… I’m guessing you live in some bizarre alternate reality.
I have a hard time believing you aren’t currently at the bar.
You’ve lost your mind man. Why would the Red Sox ever do that?
It’s more like Epstein and Lackey to the Cub and $25M to the Red Sox!!! Yes, for sympathetic reasons, you guys can keep Soriano and Zambrano.
Ok how about this counter offer? Epstein and Cherington for $10 million and we send Zambrano and Soriano to the Yankees.
Jesus Montero to Boston and you’ve got a deal
Epstein and Cherington for 10 mil, and Yankees get Zambrano/Soriano/Lackey.
Actually the Sox trade Theo and Lackey for Steve Bartman’s headphones!
Actually the Sox trade Theo and Lackey for Steve Bartman’s headphones!
Let Theo go. Lure Beane away.
Sign CC.
Win.
While you’re at it, balance the US budget.
As a matter of fact, frig the baseball stuff. Just balance the budget.
As a matter of fact, frig the baseball stuff. Just balance the budget.
you forgot trade for justin upton and felix hernandez, but this will do, for now.
A whole Winter of, should Wakefield and Varitek stay? This right there tells you the state of this franchise.
Last winter it was Posada and Jeter in NY. Happens to the best of them I guess.
Interesting that the Red Sox brass — including John Henry — want us to believe the Terry Francona’s leaving was entirely his decision. If that were in fact the case, why would DeMarlo Hale not get an interview? Why would they hold it as a negative that Hale was part of Francona’s coaching staff, if they didn’t push Terry out the door? What a bunch of prevaricators!
prevaricator:
1. a person who speaks falsely; liar.
2. a person who speaks so as to avoid the precise truth; quibbler; equivocator.
Derp! Dont yews dem big words on dis cite hear!
you’re acting as if they’ve said they would have kept him around. Which they haven’t, as far as I’ve seen. He took pretty full responsibility for the decision to leave, but from everyone’s accounts, it sounds like it was a pretty mutual decision.
Trade Theo.
The Sox were this year’s Dream team ?
Just like the Eagles
The Sox were this year’s Dream team ?
If Red Sox ownership did not have a predisposition during the season to force Francona to walk at the end of the season, why on earth did they not exercise the 2012 option for Francona anytime in August when we were doing so well? That sort of action would have been extremely important as a true vote of confidence and may very well have fixed the clubhouse maladies. By the September swoon, it must have been obvious to the malcontents on the team that Francona was a lame-duck manager, so why listen to anything he said?
Up until this fiasco, forcing Francona out the door, I had held the owners in high esteem. No longer. Now I’m hoping that the Cubs make Theo an offer he can’t refuse and that the Boston owners “man-up” and let Theo out of the last year of his contract. Then I hope John Henry and his two cohorts pick the worst possible replacement for Francona. Hey, I know that will mean a very lackluster 2012 season for us. But, after 6 decades of suffering as a Red Sox Fan, I can take it.
I’m shocked that someone who has been a fan of the team for so long still doesn’t realize how good we have it under the current ownership and management.
the entitlement in the clubhouse pales in comparison to the entitlement in the fan base
I think it’s that he’s been a fan for so long, and experienced so much pain, that it’s just ingrained. Sure it’s been a good decade, but five decades of suffering would be over 80% of his experience as a fan. Ironic that he’s hoping for a decision that would return the franchise to those days of suffering (if not already on the brink), but then again I suppose there’s comfort in the familiarity for him.
I’m shocked that someone who has been a fan of the team for so long still doesn’t realize how good we have it under the current ownership and management.
But, after 6 decades of suffering as a Red Sox Fan, I can take it.
yah, because you have it SOOOO bad….
get a grip gramps, its one of the best run organizations in all of sports. If you let this rock your fanship you weren’t much of a fan to begin with
I think he forgot a few of the 1970’s disasters, the 10 games up in 1978 at the AS break, then losing the 1 game playoff to the Yankees and then going home..
They say time heals all.. It’s only a rumor with some so called Red Sox fans IMHO…
If Red Sox ownership did not have a predisposition during the season to force Francona to walk at the end of the season, why on earth did they not exercise the 2012 option for Francona anytime in August when we were doing so well? That sort of action would have been extremely important as a true vote of confidence and may very well have fixed the clubhouse maladies. By the September swoon, it must have been obvious to the malcontents on the team that Francona was a lame-duck manager, so why listen to anything he said?
Up until this fiasco, forcing Francona out the door, I had held the owners in high esteem. No longer. Now I’m hoping that the Cubs make Theo an offer he can’t refuse and that the Boston owners “man-up” and let Theo out of the last year of his contract. Then I hope John Henry and his two cohorts pick the worst possible replacement for Francona. Hey, I know that will mean a very lackluster 2012 season for us. But, after 6 decades of suffering as a Red Sox Fan, I can take it.
say the Red Sox turn Bard into a starter & don’t re-sign Paps, who do we get? Bell? Broxton?
If the Sox were to turn Bard into a starter they would almost surely re-sign Papelbon, but they aren’t going to make Bard a starter.
i don’t think so either , but i doubt it’s because they think he’d become another joba. i think he could convert into an effective if not elite starter, they just probably can’t afford to undertake that process right now
I watched him start in Lancaster, his stuff gets real meh after 30 pitches. Hes a reliever for a reason.
a conclusion based on observations that are 5 years old is not a strong one. bard became a totally different pitcher in 2008 – not just in terms of velocity, but also command. the reason he never returned to starting is that he was positively dazzling in relief
No, I don’t think that he’d become another Joba either, and you could be right about him possibly being an effective (even elite) starter, I’m just not really convinced. He’s essentially a two pitch pitcher right? I mean he’s got the change up, but it’s really nothing more than a “show me” pitch.
His fastball slider combo works really well for him in relief, but do you think he could get away with essentially two pitches when he has to get through a lineup 3-4 times and is likely sitting closer to 95-96 with the fastball instead of the 100 he throws in relief?
Maybe I’m wrong (in fact I’d love to be proven wrong) I just don’t see a guy with essentially two pitches working out well as a starter, but maybe there’s more precedents for that than I think, or maybe the change up makes more of a difference than I’m giving it credit for. I’d actually like to hear your opinion on it.
Ultimately though, whether I’m right or wrong, I think you are probably right about them not being able to afford to go through that process right now, so unfortunately we probably wont get the chance to find out.
“He’s essentially a two pitch pitcher right?”
out of the pen, yes – two plus to plus-plus pitches. but he came out of UNC with the change, a cutter, and a deeper slurve (a pitch he turned in 2008 into the slider he has now – just checked and these are all actually still listed on his scouting page). so he had one professional year throwing those pitches and then moved to the ‘pen where his fastball and new slider did all the work for him
bard would lose quite a bit of velocity starting, as most do. but mid-nineties stuff is more than passable, particularly with a plus slider behind it. he would need an out pitch against lefties, and that’s where the change, cutter, and/or curve would have to come in. but i don’t at all take it for granted that those are unthrowable pitches for him; they’re just unpracticed because he hasn’t needed them. they can be developed if he gets the opportunity to develop them
all of this is academic, though. i doubt they want to go through that process with the fifth starter spot, especially with papelbon walking. maybe the chips fall differently and a couple of high-leverage bullpen arms come in and change the calculus, but until then i don’t see it
ogando is a pretty good comparison for bard. didn’t throw quite as hard out of the pen and was even more dependent on his slider, which is the only other pitch he has even now. i don’t like ogando all that much so i wouldn’t want bard to emulate him, but he’s good evidence that it’s a doable transition for that kind of pitcher
like bard early in his career, wilson had two breaking balls and a change out of the pen, but none of them were outstanding pitches and he relied on his fastball even more than bard. his transition to starting included a switch to a mix of two-seamers and cutters, which i think josh beckett for example would agree is a better approach
Wow, I was thinking that he originally had the fastball, slurve, and change and then changed the slurve into a slider, but you’re right he actually had 5 or 6 pitches, so there’s no reason to think he can’t incorporate those pitches again.
I also didn’t mean to sound like I think a 95-96 mph fastball is nothing (it’s clearly not), just that a pitcher with (I thought) two pitches wouldn’t be nearly as effective throwing 95 instead of 100, and I also wonder if his fastball would be flatter if he’s not throwing it as hard (I honestly have no idea if it would be, just something I wondered about).
I actually would like to see them give him a shot like they tried with Papelbon a couple years ago, especially now that I know he has a couple more pitches he could throw. Actually I would probably rather see that than most of the other likely options, and if they have someone else to close I could see it at least being considered; I wouldn’t be too surprised if Lackey bounced back and was a good #4 next year (but that’s risky to count on, and it wouldn’t be good to have a project and a dud rounding out your rotation). There are also a couple serviceable fallback plans if they decide he needs to move back to the ‘pen, and if the team was willing to give Miller as much rope as they did you’d have to think they’d at least consider giving Bard a shot.
What I meant with the Joba thing was why mess with a good thing? A guy like Bard in the bullpen, usually only used in key situations, has a chance to influence the outcome of nearly half of his teams games (Bard has appeared in 44% of the Sox games the past two years), while a starter at best influences a little over 20%, assuming they make every turn in the rotation with the 5th starter skipped a few times. I’d rather have him be dominant in the bullpen in key moments than just “effective” as a starter.
the proportion of each game that they influence can’t be overlooked there though bruddah. high leverage or not, we’re talking about 3 outs. 70 innings to 180, ’nuff said. gotta get to the last two innings for elite relievers — who are generally fungible anyway — to matter
Yeah, but not all innings are the same though. Of those 180, how many of those come with the score tied, or just barely ahead or barely behind? It may be 180 to 70 overall, but if you’re looking at high leverage innings it might not be as big of a gap as you think (not to say that lower leverage innings don’t have value as well- I hope the Sox find a gm who values them disproportionally as it might be our only chance of getting rid of Lackey).
yup, but then there’s the fact that bard has tended to do worse when the leverage index has been higher
ultimately this argument turns not primarily on the relative value of bullpen innings versus starter innings, but on scarcity: quality starters are much, much, much harder to find than quality relievers. the balance evens out a bit when you talk only about the very top tier relievers versus quality starters, but bard has not proven himself to be very top tier. he’s been very good, but not great
Fair enough
I know the RS need the pitching but damn was Miller terrible. 3 million dollars for that? Same pitcher hes always been but with a better defense behind him. Same terrible results
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