In yesterday's collection of Angels notes, we heard that the team has touched base with C.J. Wilson. GM Jerry Dipoto said his club is "intrigued" by the possibility of signing the left-hander away from the rival Rangers, according to Mark Saxon of ESPN Los Angeles. Let's round up a few more Angels-related links….
- Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio tweets that Wilson, who is from Southern California and is living there this winter, has "serious interest" in the Angels.
- Within his ESPN.com blog (Insider only), Buster Olney says baseball people that have talked to the Angels don't think the club will be among the bidders for Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder. Dipoto said earlier this week that, while an impact first baseman isn't the team's most pressing need, the Angels "don't want to lock the door" on the possibility of signing Pujols or Fielder.
- The baseball people who spoke to Olney also feel like Dipoto is "in full control of the decisions" for the Angels, with Mike Scioscia entirely focused on managing.
The Angels might have the best rotation in baseball if they land Wilson.
The Angels WILL have the best rotation in baseball if they land Wilson.
And the Amazing part of Angels Top 3 if Cj signs is that there all CALI NATIVES! and what IF richards pitches awesome then 4 out of 5 guys will be Cali natives likewise goes to chatty
Not really,
Phillies still have 2 pitchers better than any of the angels staff members.
i would argue that weaver is better than lee
Weaver had his best year in 2011 and Lee’s numbers across the board are still better.
So how do you expect to win that argument?
Weaver had a great year, but he’s not at cliff lee’s status yet.
Maybe not yet, but if Weaver can keep up the pace, he will be soon.
Cliff Lee’s track record isn’t all the long when you really look at it. He had an outstanding 2008 (after a decent 2006 and a terrible 2007), followed by a good 2009, pitched great first half of 2010 (followed by decent second half) and then a great 2011.
Weaver has a longer track record and has ranged from decent to great every single year from 2006 to 2011.
Lee is overrated.
i would argue that weaver is better than lee
Halladay is the only pitcher in that rotation that tops Weaver or Haren. Lee is overrated.
wha?? lee is easily better than weaver or haren. what kind of argument says otherwise?? he posts better numbers year in and year out and pitches in a bandbox as opposed to pitcher friendly Angel Stadium.
Cliff Lee
2006: 14-11, 4.40 era / 1.41 whip / 200 ip / 129 K, 58 BB
2007: 5-8, 6.29 era / 1.52 whip / 97 ip / 66 K, 36 BB (got sent down to minors)
2008: 22-3, 2.54 era / 1.11 whip / 223 ip / 170 K, 34 BB
2009: 14-13, 3.22 era / 1.24 whip / 231 ip / 181 K, 43 BB
2010: 12-9, 3.18 era / 1.00 whip / 212 ip / 185 K, 18 BB
2011: 17-8, 2.40 era / 1.03 whip / 232 ip / 238 K, 42 BB
He’s only been “great” 2 yrs and good for another 2 yrs. That’s hardly an argument to say that he’s “easily better” than Weaver or Haren. With the way the media portrays him, you’d think he’s a 3-time Cy Young winner with 200+ K’s every year (when he did it for only the FIRST time in his career this past year).
Cliff Lee’s ERA+ for the past 2 yrs – 146
Jered Weaver’s ERA+ for past 2 yrs – 144
That’s as even as it gets since ERA+ adjusts for ballpark.
Lol if he’s on, then Wilson will help a rotation though he is a converted reliever, not an ace. If Wilson gets into his own head, the Angels or whichever team is going to regret signing him. Therefore, I hope either the Angels or Yankees blow their wad on Wilson so the Rangers can spend their money on other, more reliable players.
That better include a pitcher of equal or better value. Otherwise the Rangers are in big trouble. The success of the Rangers hinges on their starting pitching. Offense, defense, and bullpen can be made by any team playing in a hitters ballpark.
With Morales at 1B and Vernon Wells taking up all that payroll space, I don’t think the Angels will be players for Pujols or Prince.
Morales hasn’t played in 2 years, is still a concern physically, and will be a free agent in 2 years.
He’s also represented by Boras. If he doesn’t perform like he did in 2009, it doesn’t make sense to lock him up. If he does, the price tag will be too much.
Vernon Wells’ contract is an eye sore, but it’s not prohibiting the Angels from pursuing a big name. Hunter (18 million) and Abreu (9 million) will be off the books after this season. If they allotted the entire 15 million that’s allegedly available to Fielder, they’d be about 8 million over for this year only (Assuming he signs for an AAV of 23 million). In 2013, that 8 million would simply be taken from the 27 million coming off the books.
Also, this hardly even needs to be mentioned, but players like Fielder/Pujols pay for themselves to a certain extent.
Agreed. If the Halos get their TV Deal settled, the possibility that they sign a big timer would also likely increase.
Dude i heard about that Fox deal Along time ago to since the start of the Oct..IS it gona happen? iv been waiting for some news on this and nothing i was so excited about this deal.. and Arte did say he will excel his 140M payroll for a certain player or players..so if he feels that guy is a piece of the puzzle he will pay
I wouldn’t be surprised to see it get settled up in the winter near the close of 4Q, a big signing could possibly predicate a better deal or come afterwards with the security of a deal in place.
You’re probably right. I kind of forgot about Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu coming off the books next year. The only problem I see is that Prince is also represented by Boras, and the Angels have been reluctant to deal with him lately.
Very true. Hopefully Dipoto can bridge the gap that’s developed between Moreno/Boras.
Hopefully the Weaver situation helped things a little, but yeah. I feel like that was more of Weaver forcing his hand than anything else.
I really hope we can find a way to make a run on Fielder. He’s 27, at the top of his game, will draw a huge fanbase and has never missed more than five games in a season. Guys this talented and this young come along extremely rarely in free agency. Even if his weight starts to catch up with him around 32 or 33, that’s still 5-6 years of elite production on probably a 7-8 year deal.
Get it done, Dipoto!
I really don’t think Morales’ price will get too ridiculous even if he does have a good season in 2012. Especially after Pujols and Fielder get locked up this offseason, how many teams will really need a first baseman? Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, etc. are already taken care of, and that’s before this offseason even begins. There’s only so many “mystery teams” that Boras can create for such a saturated position, especially for a guy who has been an injury concern going on two years now.
I feel like if he has a bounce back year that’s anything close to his 2009 season, the Angels will be able to extend him fairly easily if they have interest in doing so because Morales is going to want security and the market will be flat.
Agreed. I suppose I was working under the presumption of “worst case scenario”.
I would love for Kendry to bounce back and sign a somewhat team-friendly extension, but it would still be risky.
His ankle is a serious concern moving forward. And he’s listed as 28 years old, but going by the Cuban rule of thumb, he’s most likely 30 or 31.
Hmm i prefer a big Bat but okay.. Sign Cj, and our offense still sucks i see no improvement on the team if our hitters can’t hit a freakn ball in important situations… Rangers have made it clear there not interested in Cj unless he lowers his money…Sign Cj,Cespeds…If they land this Cuban slugger and Cj ill be a happy camper..
What are the Angels supposed to do with Cespedes? They already have a logjam in the outfield with Trout and Bourjos ready to be mainstays for years to come and you want to add another outfielder?
Heck ya there’s no such thing as enough talent.. Just imagine Cespeds LF Pete CF and Trout RF… That’s gota be the best OF In history if everyone of them does what there said to do.. I would love it then this year Cespedes LF Wells Dh and Abreu PH idc if Abreu and wells don’t like the idea they sucked and dont deserve a start in the OF or for Abreu even to start at all
Yes, Wells is really going to DH and ride the pine for three years after one bad season here. And while making $21M a season. And with your proposed lineup, where does Hunter fit in… does he just retire and go on vacation? What if Morales comes back healthy, you want 4 DH’s in our lineup (Wells, Abreu, Morales, Hunter)?
There is a such thing as wasting money on too much talent for positions that are already accounted for and oversaturated. Your scenario makes zero sense unless we move two or three of these guys, which will never happen.
Hunter will play Rf…Morales is going to Dh till healthy after that he is back to 1b..Abreu Ph like i said and wells Dh..So we wuld be having 2 Dh(Wells,Morales) and pete,trout,cespedes was for the future not for the 2012 season more like the 2013 and so on season’s..(trout ain’t ready for this year and if they get cespedes, i wuld lyk too see cespedes in the minors to)
And what about Trumbo? You keep leaving out players. And you really think Scioscia is going to keep Abreu on the bench to be only a PH? This isn’t the NL, Abreu is going to play at least 3-4 times a week just like he did last year. Scioscia wouldn’t “disrespect” his veteran like that.
I also highly doubt Morales will play much 1B next year, if at all. They are going to be very cautious with him (as they should be). I see him at DH for at least half the season if he comes back.
Are you even aware of the interest Cespedes is attracting? He’s been estimated to get a deal north of $30M. There’s no way he starts in the minors.
Trumbo has been rumored to play 3B after Morales becomes healthy..And ya i thought about the respect part to Abreu to.. But he is old and sucks now he isn’t going to help this team win a championship.. But thats exaclty why i said Cespedes and Trout will be in the minors getting there final touches ready and 2013 is wide open for them..Having hunter retiring and Abreu’s contract ending..So what im saying is for the 2013 season i see this…Cespeds-LF, Peter-CF, Trout-RF, Wells-Dh, Morales 1b, Trumbo 3B..Signings arent always for this season there for the future and in the long run i think signing cespedes will help this team alot..
Trumbo cannot and will not play 3B next season. Defense matters and you can’t just stick guys wherever you want to try to build a lineup. I expect Trumbo to be trade bait if Morales comes back healthy. I’m sure DiPoto will try to find a GM in the same mold of Tony Reagins that doesn’t value OBP and flip Trumbo for a couple live arms to stick in the bullpen. DiPoto has already talked about adding OBP to the infield and that certainly wouldn’t mean replacing the Angels leader in OBP (Callaspo) with someone with a sub .290 OBP in Trumbo.
D is a matter exactly what i wanted you to say and yet people say that Angels should sign A-ram..
Nobody with decent baseball knowledge wants the Halos to sign A-Ram. Aramis is legitimately the worst defensive 3B in baseball and there’s no reason to pay way more money for a less valuable player at 3B.
D is a matter exactly what i wanted you to say and yet people say that Angels should sign A-ram..
Things always work themselves out. Either an injury happens to a player, a player struggles or a trade is made to plug in a hole.
Not sold on Cespedes to spend the money, and Trout’s arm isn’t RF caliber.
C.J. Wilson is the most over rated pitcher… He did nothing in the playoffs and I believe his last 17 starts were against Oakland and other below .500 teams
Ovverated for sure but he is good and he wuld help out Angels Rotation
No, he is not.. did you watch the playoffs?
Yes i did i also saw him in the regular season..Not everyone translates there season numbers to the post..its called pressure and players choking due to it
Ya but take a look at the teams Wilson pitched against during the regular season..
I could probably come up with more than a handful of guys who had a very good season and a subpar playoffs. Wilson was sixth in the AL in K’s and seventh in ERA. He was also fourth in WAR, so to me, that makes him someone who can help a rotation, which is all we’re saying here.
Well ya hes not an absolute failure I just think he is going to be wayyyy overpaid and be the next Barry Zito… Which is all im saying here
thats just your opinion. you have no stats to back it up.
C.J. is good, but only for the right price. Especially with our offensive woes, if we need to blow our entire load on Wilson then I think we’re still barely treading water and watching Texas ease into the playoffs once again.
so 3 starts = accurate size sample?
I said 17 starts where did you get 3?
The_BiRDS 35 minutes ago in reply to Christian
No, he is not.. did you watch the playoffs?
Lunchbox45.. This is the original comment:
“C.J. Wilson is the most over rated pitcher… He did nothing in the playoffs and I believe his last 17 starts were against Oakland and other below .500 teams”
Okay but the playoffs is what it is, its a short stretch it cant determine a players full value.. Do we all think Cody Ross and David Freese are going to lead next years MVP hopefuls?
And if he goes to LAA, he’ll still face the A’s and Seattle and a bunch of other sub .500 teams, so that argument holds absolutely no validity.
Hey bro, don’t forget when Mathis hit .400 during that playoff stretch three years ago. It has secured his job for life.
While I 100% agree with you, David Freese is the real deal. As long as those ankles stay healthy next year(which they did this year) and no more bad luck, he is going to put up really impressive numbers. I’m not saying he will be an MVP type player but he won’t be in Cody Ross league for sure.
Lunchbox45.. This is the original comment:
“C.J. Wilson is the most over rated pitcher… He did nothing in the playoffs and I believe his last 17 starts were against Oakland and other below .500 teams”
The_BiRDS 35 minutes ago in reply to Christian
No, he is not.. did you watch the playoffs?
Short sample, even Willie Mays and A-Rod bad series, it is random.
WTF I said 17 regular season starts.. do people in Anaheim hear what they want?
ya i saw and ill name all the teams by order..Vs astros, Vs yanks, Vs twins, vs cle, Vs, TB, Vs chisox, vs phils, vs angels, oak, sea, kc, det, bosox.. At of all the 17 games he had 4/17 were he allowed 4 or more runs rest were 3-… and from those 17 games there were 4 playoff teams, Yanks, TB,Phils,Det.. He lost to all of them but he allowed 3- runs against everyone of them besides det.. Detroit he allowed 4 runs
but as long as he stays out of the AL east, he will continue to play weaker teams, so I’m not sure why his opposition is a concern.
Dont forget the Cardinals
ya i saw and ill name all the teams by order..Vs astros, Vs yanks, Vs twins, vs cle, Vs, TB, Vs chisox, vs phils, vs angels, oak, sea, kc, det, bosox.. At of all the 17 games he had 4/17 were he allowed 4 or more runs rest were 3-… and from those 17 games there were 4 playoff teams, Yanks, TB,Phils,Det.. He lost to all of them but he allowed 3- runs against everyone of them besides det.. Detroit he allowed 4 runs
Short sample, even Willie Mays and A-Rod bad series, it is random.
Fangraphs has Wilson with a WAR of 5.9 this year with Weaver at 5.6.
Fangraphs has Wilson with a WAR of 5.9 this year with Weaver at 5.6.
Mike Scioscia has super managing powers
If by powers you mean complain about having to go to Toronto to play the Jays at the end of the season…then yes, absolutely.
I’m fine with signing CJ. It either gives huge depth or opens up someone to be traded depending how the #5 works out. It also helps give some stability for 2013 and beyond. Having Weaver and CJ locked up for the next 4 years + would be a nice luxury.
Angels need offense but what’s out there that will work? Per all the others above, there is already a logjam in the spots where teh good FAs are available (OF, DH, 1B). There aren’t any decent options at 3B (no to Ramirez) and C where we have open holes.
I’m praying that Trumbo can play reasonably decent 3B and Morales can get back to his former self, that would solve a lot of problems.
Angels fans are fine with anything. They just bend over and let Arte stick a taco in their butts.. he Angels are the 99cent store of baseball. Arte Moreno is a joke
YOU HAVE NO OFFENSE AND YOU’RE GOING AFTER PITCHING? WTF!! TRaDITION!! ENJOY 3RD PLACE ANGELS FK
I applaud you for not typing in ALL caps…
I applaud you for not typing in ALL caps…
Lol I’m guessing all those who think Wilson is the ace savior who is going to make their team have the best rotation in baseball didn’t watch his breakdowns like in the World Series and last year’s All Star game.
LoL ace Savior??.. Have you seen Angels rotation i believe its full of Ace’s… Weaver,Haren,Santana.. they can all be an Ace if they split up
santana? settle down.
Santana is far from an ace…simmer down now.
The future is bright for the Angels (Trout, Conger, Richards, Chatwood, Segura, Cron are all solid prospects), but that future won’t come until 2013. Angels need to save their money and spend what they can wisely. MLBTR’s Arb estimates and Arte’s ballpark payroll figure, indicate they have between 12-22 million to spend this winter and need a starter, reliever and a bat.
DiPoto so far has said that he wants a late inning RHP first and foremost, and a ground ball throwing starter, as well as an infielder that has a good OBP and he prefers to upgrade via trade. Landing Wilson effectively improves the Angels and weakens the Rangers, so of course DiPoto is interested.
Just deciphering what DiPoto has said, I think he deals:
– Izturis + prospects for Martin Prado. Angels would plug Prado in at 3B and use Callaspo in Izturis’ old role. The money figures to be about even.
– Next, I’d say he brings in Frank Francisco to help as 7th inning reliever behind Walden and Downs. Just guessing but 2 years 12 million would probably be enough, leaving DiPoto with somewhere between 6 and 16 million to spend on a starting pitcher.
– That doesn’t strike me as enough to bring in CJ Wilson. I’m guessing he brings in Hiroki Kuroda for 2 years 24 million. Kuroda said he’d like to stay in LA and this gives him a legit shot at the playoffs.
Payroll would end up around 137 million. The bullpen would be set. The rotation would be the 2nd best in baseball behind the Phillies. Prado would provide some needed pop and the Angels look like a 90 win team. Who knows, if Morales comes back healthy (unlikely) and Wells bounces back (extremely unlikely) the Angels could be a 95+ win team.
I’m on board with doing nothing as well and just waiting for the young guys to develop and the payroll to take a big dip in 2013. Even if we sign Fielder, our offense is still no competition for Texas. If on the other hand we knew Morales would come back and mash then it’d be a litter more intriguing, but that’s a pipe dream at this point. Especially with the Angels saying they aren’t going to start to work Morales hard until January… doesn’t sound like the greatest sign.
My argument is he will be overpaid where ever he goes.. Thats all.
95% of all free agents are over paid because they are paid on past performance. The bigger the free agent the harder it is for them to meet expectations.
I’ve been saying this for a while and want some opinions. If the Angels really did sign Wilson, do they keep all four starters or do they trade Santana for salary relief/prospects/3B? It would basically be a CJ for Santana swap, but still giving the Angels flexibility in payroll this offseason and restock the farm somewhat.
They aren’t touching their 1-2-3 starters. They had a void at 4-5 from day one last season.
I know Roy Oswalt has a back thing, but doesn’t he have a better track record than a guy like Wilson? Whoever gets Oswalt on a 2 or 3 year deal is way better off than Wilson for 5.
CJ Wilson is a perfect fit in LA. 3 Reasons. 1: He’s from SoCal 2. The Angels need a legit left handed starter. 3: This is a perfect chance to show Texas he’s done with them f***ing up in the WS.