In addition to Albert Pujols, Jose Reyes, and Mark Buehrle, the Marlins made an offer to free agent closer Ryan Madson, reports SI's Jon Heyman. Unlike the other three, the Madson offer has yet to inspire a visit to Miami. Heyman notes that the proposals are preliminary, and the team is not concerned about all four accepting. Marlins president David Samson explained Saturday on 790 The Ticket with Glenn Geffner that the team has a free agent flow chart in which they expect a playoff team with every outcome (transcript courtesy of Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post). More from Heyman…
- The Mariners will make a run at Prince Fielder, tweets Heyman, but they're unsure if there's room in the budget. Heyman suggests the Ms will not be in on Pujols.
- Heyman explains the mess that was the Phillies' negotiations with Madson. He says Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. proposed $44MM over four years, which Madson accepted an hour or two later. Oddly, Amaro added at that point that he needed the approval of CEO David Montgomery, according to Heyman. The next day Amaro told agent Scott Boras he'd been unable to get that approval. However, Amaro told Heyman there was no agreement "either verbal or in writing," and also said, "I will stand by my history of integrity forever." Amaro also said Montgomery was aware of the negotiations as they occurred and wasn't responsible for killing the deal. It appears Amaro and Boras are not on the same page as to what constitutes an agreement.
- The Braves seek a Zack Greinke-like deal for Jair Jurrjens, writes Heyman. He later tweeted, "Jurrjens understandably popular on trade market. A star and only 25. You know Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, others are in."
- The Mets have crossed Chris Capuano off their list given his desire for a two-year deal.
So you won’t give Capuano two years…but you’ll consider bringing back Pelfrey…come on Sandy…
I think it’s a sad but ok move. Capuano pitched well but maybe not well enough for Sandy to feel comfortable giving him 2 years.
He’ll get it elsewhere though.
Yes, the Orioles should be on this! I am sure all my Oriole friends will agree with me LOL!
hahaaha
Lefty strikes again!
Pelfrey has trade value. Capuano will be a logjam in a year.
Well, that’s that. It looks like Jurrjens will stay in Atlanta then.
In what crazy universe is Jurrjens remotely similar to Greinke.
In the universe of end results and not how you got there. I wouldn’t give a Greink-esque package of prospects for him though.
I’m not even sure I’d give a Greinke-esque package for Greinke!
Its called the NL East. The craziest of crazies..
Greinke had one amazing season. The rest of his career has been decent but not frontline ace stuff. Throw in the fact that he has anxiety issues and his limited playoff showings have looked marginal at best.
The Royals haul for Greinke was less than impressive. I still think it might be a bit much for Jurrjens, but it’s not like the Royals raided someones system for Greinke.
Yeah. KC did kind of get robbed for Grienke, but that haul of talent is way too much for Jurrjens.. His being a flyball pitcher will scare away several alone from giving up much, if not interested at all.
How can you say that the Royals got robbed when only two of the players they received have even played at the big league for the Royals level yet?
Escobar is a rare talent in the middle of the diamond. His defense is superb and will most likely only continue to get better, just as his bat. Cain has just been handed the starting center field job after the melky trade and he looks to be an immediate impact player. Jeffress showed signs of his immense potential early in the season. His stuff is never questioned. They can do a number of things with him going forward be it in the rotation or back of the bullpen. And Odorizzi has gotten his stuff straight and looked absolutely filthy this year in the minors. High number of starts, more than 1 K per inning, at two different levels. His High A stats are very impressive. He seems to have a very high ceiling.
Brewers overpaid for two years of an expensive pitcher and a below average SS in Yuni. The Royals in return go two impact starting position players under team control for multiple seasons and two dynamic arms. HOW ON EARTH DID THEY GET ROBBED ???
Have to agree with you. I think the Royals did pretty well on that trade. Cain and Escobar alone make that trade worth it.
Agreed, too early to tell that KC got robbed, but I was surprised how much CHC gave up for Matt Garza in terms of quality and quantity compared to the Greinke deal.
Grienke was the best SP available at the time pretty much and KC could have moved him to 29 teams, after all who would not have paid through the nose for a SP of Grienke’s talent with 2 full seasons of control left?
This is not a Garza type pitcher (whom I also like) but at the time one of the top SP in the game and he should have depleted most any team’s ML depth to acquire. That is why. Garza got more (as someone has posted below) and if Cain somehow moves this winter, he should be in about the same class prospect wise as grienke was.
It would have helped the Royals had Greinke not demanded the trade, and then nixed a trade with the Nationals which would have garnered the Royals a better package than they got with Milwaukee. So not all 29 teams would or could have been Greinke destinations. Friedman had no such constraints in trading Garza.
It would have helped the Royals had Greinke not demanded the trade, and then nixed a trade with the Nationals which would have garnered the Royals a better package than they got with Milwaukee. So not all 29 teams would or could have been Greinke destinations. Friedman had no such constraints in trading Garza.
It’s posturing. Jurrjens will be moved this offseason.
If it is posturing perhaps someone should let Wren know he should do it on dry ground and not in heaping piles of cow dung.
When the best starting pitchers available are playing in Japan, a converted reliever coming off a bad postseason, and an inconsistent, well-travelled starter (Edwin Jackson), if the current market isn’t in cow dung, it’s close to it. Yeah, if ATL gets anywhere close to anything like the Greinke deal, you know it’s bad.
I guess all the people commenting on this hasn’t even negotiated their car insurance, let alone anything else to know how a deal starts. Keep reporting Heyman that we want the moon for JJ, knowing good and well that when the losers during the CJ Wilson and Edwin Jackson (?!?!) sweepstakes will think about for a second. The market is too shallow for starting pitching not to set the price and stick with it as the pieces fall around you…which is just what is happening when 6 teams are bidding on CJ Wilson. Put this ridiculous offering in the back of your memory and come back when Edwin Jackson gets his millions. I am not a big fan of Jurrjens, but he is more consistent and has a higher ceiling than Jackson ever will, injuries or not.
And note, I wouldn’t want a Greinke-like deal considering none of those guys really have looked as good a year into the deal as many of ATL’s top prospects. That could change, but that’s just after a year.
“I am not a big fan of Jurrjens, but he is more consistent and has a higher ceiling than Jackson ever will, injuries or not”.
What? Even with his inconsistincies Jackson has posted better numbers than JJ.
5 years of declining FIP.
11.2 WAR vs 6.6 WAR over the last 3 years.
Much better “pure” stuff (94.5 FB avg over the last 3 years vs 5 years of a declining FB that ended up around 89 mph in 2011).
Not only does he have better stuff but he’s been much more durable and has shown he can be , at minimum, a solid #3 or #4 in the AL. His most obvious drawback is his walk ratio but even that has been as good (2.94, 3.35, 2.79) if not close to JJ’s (3.14, 3.25, 2.61). At least EJ misses more bats and has the stuff to overpower a hitter.
JJ’s fastball has always been 89-93MPH up til last year . It’s been said on several Braves team shows that the decline in velocity was intentional to have a better command and pitch placement . This would account for his BB/9 being better last year than any other year and his career AVG . WL for both the last 3 years ….Jurrjens(last 2 years having some time on the DL) 34-22 / Jackson 35-30 . I’m not gonna do the math , but it would look to me that Jurrjens WL % is better than Jackson’s .
at this rate the marlins probably made an offer to mccourt as well
“The Braves seek a Zack Greinke-like deal for Jair Jurrjens, writes Heyman.”
Entirely understandable considering Jurrjens has had such consistent success and those Cy Young awards on his resume.
I know… They simply aren’t getting a return for just him. Now they did trade Yuniesky Betancourt with Greinke, so maybe that’s what they’re talking about with JJ and Prado.
Jurrjens is a Boras client. And since Heyman is essentially part of the media wing of the Boras Corp, it’s not surprising he’s trying to overstate Jurrjens’ value.
If the Braves sign both Madson and Reyes the Mets will only get their 3rd rounder. that’s amusingly sad.
Whatever drugs your taking…please share. There is no way in hell that’s happening. Braves aren’t given that amount of money to spend.
They aren’t even going to offer a contract to either player
I really hope you meant the Marlins, because my Braves can’t afford the letterhead for the contract offering to either of those.
haha. the braves have a good core as it is though. You’ll never no what to expect year to year from Atlanta.
haha. the braves have a good core as it is though. You’ll never no what to expect year to year from Atlanta.
Yeahhh I meant Marlins, I’m still trying to figure out how I made that mistake, they don’t even start with the same letters.
Someone woke up the Marlins this year…
So that explains their uniforms coming from a Caribbean nightmare.
nope
You can ask for whatever you want. Let’s see if anyone comes close to it.
Marlins how about Anabel Sanchez and Logan Morrison for Ellsbury with your new park to have a Gold Glove and a Silver Slugger.
Only one problem with that proposal: Ellsbury will be looking for about a billion dollars in a year, so…
Agreed, this guy is going to get paid so much money it’s ridiculous.
Matt Kemp just created that market for Ellsbury. Man, the Red Sox have some issues to work through these next two years. Not saying Ellsbury is the issue, but there is no way any intelligent baseball person would have upwards of $60mm committed annually, to all three OF positions for the next 6-8 years. I mean that’s just flat out stupid. I’m very curious to see what comes of the Ellsbury negotiations in the coming year. I’m thinking they trade him, but then again, having Boras as his agent and Ellsbury’s desire to get that large contract, I can’t see any team trading much for the inevitable limited fix.
Ellsbury is still Arb eligible. Let’s see what he does next year before we start declaring him the next $160M player
No kidding. Dude’s 2011 homerun total was close to the same as the THREE years prior. If he hits 15-20 longballs next year are people still going to be thinking Kemp/Manny money for Ellsbury?
Going in to 2011, he had 20 career HRs, while hitting 32 this year…..the guys ISO doubled from any previous full season. Did he do something to his mechanics?
Assuming his power doesn’t start evaporating.
Agreed, this guy is going to get paid so much money it’s ridiculous.
Maybe Nolasco and Gaby, but not Anibal and definitely not LoMo
Or maybe Boston just keeps him. Much better deal.
I could see the Angels trying to sign this guy to be their closer with the departure of Fernando Rodney.
Walden is their closer.
If I was Wilson, I would feel left out, every other big name free agent is getting offers from Miami. Tomorrows headline: Miami to meet with CJ Wilson…and then Tuesdays headline: Miami makes offer to Wilson.
Tomorrow is Tuesday. But hey, why wait a day?
If JJ is a “star” Doug Fister is Jesus.
If JJ is a “star” Doug Fister is Jesus.
wonder if the Tigers willing to take Jair back along with Prado for Rayburn Young and Peralta.
Tigers get J.J Prado and Cunningham for Rayburn Young and J. Peralta
Yuck!! Jurrjens/Prado for Castellanos.
please see above ^
sorry…meant to be a reply to sonofsnake
So your measurement for TOR stuff is ERA?
No it’s more than ERA . It’s his character , his career stats , his W-L’s on a team like the Braves that don’t score a lot of runs .
His career numbers :
50-33 , .602 , 3.40 , HR/9=0.7 , BB/9=3.1(but dropped to 2.6 last year)
IN comparison to Zach Greinke
76-73 , .510 , 3.83 , HR/9=0.9 , BB/9=2.3
Not looking at the names , just the numbers . Who would you rather have pitching for you ? The only thing that Greinke has the edge on at this point in their careers is a better walk ratio and strike out ratio . But those numbers don’t indicate who is gonna win you more games .
Last season WAR
Jurrjens 3.8
Greinke 1.7
The two years before the Brewers traded for Greinke he had WAR’s of 2.3 and 9.0, JJ two previous years right now are 3.8 and -.1. 11.3 vs. 3.7 or 449 IP vs. 268 IP. Think you’re underestimating things teams looking for pitching admire most, strikeout’s and innings pitched, not to mention Greinke’s monster 2009 season that was only a year removed at the time.
You can strike out 10-12 batters a game and still give up 4-5 ruuns a game and lose . It doesn’t matter how you get the outs as long as you get them . Not really comparing the two , but if you were to just look at strikeout averages , Greg Maddux while his in Atlanta only averaged 6-7 strikeouts per game and was dominant . Jurrjens career average is 6.2 .
And Jurrjens had a good first half to the year that had him in the discussion for the CY Young before the AS break and his injury .
Grienke any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
BR WAR
Jurrjens: 3.8
Greinke: 1.7
Fangraphs WAR
Jurrjens 1.5
Greinke 3.9
K rate, BB rate, GB rate, Park factors and innings mean a lot more to me than ERA W/L and “character” do.
ERA determines wether or not you give your team a chance to win . If you only give up 3 runs a game instead of 5 and your team scores 4 , then thats a win instead of a loss . So don’t tell me that ERA doesn’t matter .
I never said ERA didn’t matter, just that it doesn’t matter as much as the things I mentioned above.
Would you argue that Jeff Karstens is a better pitcher than Chris Carpenter, Felix Hernandez or David Price because he had a lower ERA than them this season?
That kid had a decent year . You put him on a that scores more runs like the Cards or Rays , and he would have had an even better year as far as WL .
And those guys have already proven themselves or were known prospects before they ever pitched at the big league level . Whose to say that on a different team 2 or 3 years down the road that we won’t be comparing Karstens with unproven talent . He has only really started the last three seasons and gotten better every year those last three .
maybe . Actually , at least Peralta would be a filler in SS .
Peralta would be a “filler”? The guy was the third most valuable SS in baseball (fWAR) and had the 3rd highest wOBA among SS, while playing good defense. There is no way he’d be considered a filler for a team that had one of the worst offensive SS in baseball last year.
Don’t get your man panties in a wad . The Braves clearly see Pastornicky as their possible SS of the future . I would honestly just as soon see Peralta fill that hole and be done with it . But they see Pastornicky as a high prospect and future big leaguer .
Man panties? Creative….anyway, I just didn’t understand calling him filler, since he has a lot of value.
” They’re unsure if there’s room in the budget”…. don’t start with that same old same old routine M’s. Just get it done for god sake.
No. I don’t want the marienrs to be hamstrung with another huge contract. Hold off the big money deals for another year please.
Thanks.
You’ll be so surprise to have egg on your face sir when they do actully sign him! Count on it!.
Given the contractual obligations that come off of the Mariners payroll after next season I don’t see a 22-25 million dollar a season salary to Prince Fielder hampering the Mariners too much.
The M’s have money to play with this season while also paying 28 million(approx.) to Ichiro Vargas and League.
Assuming the M’s return to their current payroll following a single season spike this season, they would have Fielder money + whatever money they have to spend this off-season. Add in another 9 million in salary relief Figgins contract expires following 2013 and there should be plenty of money for ARB raises, roll players and maybe even a Felix re-signing.
My guess is the Yankees aren’t in if the Braves are looking for a killing in prospect for Jurrjens. The last 2 years he’s barely started 20 games per for the Braves. I’m sure the Yankees would prefer a lefty starter to go along with CC.
I actually wouldn’t mind having JJ around another year or at least the first half until one of Delgado or Teheran can solidify a rotation spot. It’s going to be a young, young staff. Contending teams might be willing to pay more for him at next year’s deadline, too. We could probably afford to move him at that point, regardless of if we were contending or not.
Angels —Ellsbury for Bourjos, Santana and a prospect–you have Ells for two years and Borass lives around the corner. By the time he becomes a FA Wells’ contract will be up.
Is anyone interested in Ellsbury??? Gold Glove, Silver Slugger…let’s make a deal!
Angels —Ellsbury for Bourjos, Santana and a prospect–you have Ells for two years and Borass lives around the corner. By the time he becomes a FA Wells’ contract will be up.
Is anyone interested in Ellsbury??? Gold Glove, Silver Slugger…let’s make a deal!
Wren is doing the right thing by asking for a Greinke-like package for Jurrjens. More than likely he probably won’t get it, and he might look stupid for asking but they could settle with giving him something just as good. I’d be patient with JJ right now if I was Wren. Some one is bound to overpay for him.
Not hard to imagine Greinke having twice as much trade value last year as JJ does now. Greinke had thrown atleast 202 IP the three years prior whereas JJ has thrown only 116 & 152 these past two years with him crossing the 200 IP three years ago.
Doesn’t mean they won’t get a nice package for him, they will, but the one guy was a year removed from a CY season under control for two years where the other guy has a ton more question marks without the same kind of ceiling or resume. Of course asking and receiving are two different things. Seems silly to ask for that kind of package considering he’s a far less desireable piece.
Wren is doing the right thing by asking for a Greinke-like package for Jurrjens. More than likely he probably won’t get it, and he might look stupid for asking but they could settle with giving him something just as good. I’d be patient with JJ right now if I was Wren. Some one is bound to overpay for him.
Orioles here’s a guy to build around—Jacoby Ellsbury could be your leadoff batter or a #3 batter with power for Adam Jones and Jim Johnson.
That makes absolutely no sense. Why would Boston trade Ellsbury? Better yet, why would they do it within the division?
Better yet what the hell does Ellsbury have to do with the article?
Why would they want Jim Johnson…
Orioles here’s a guy to build around—Jacoby Ellsbury could be your leadoff batter or a #3 batter with power for Adam Jones and Jim Johnson.
I’d be shocked if the M’s got Fielder. As a M’s fan, I wouldn’t be too happy, either. He will be out of baseball by 32, meaning anything we pay over 4 years will be thrown away.
His dad, Cecil, was FAR less athletic and was a quality hitter until his age 34 season. I don’t see why Prince would be less so. He is definitely worth at least 6 years in my eyes. I’d be a little weary of 8 though.
His dad, Cecil, was FAR less athletic and was a quality hitter until his age 34 season. I don’t see why Prince would be less so. He is definitely worth at least 6 years in my eyes. I’d be a little weary of 8 though.
his dad had a much bigger frame to carry all the weight around no?
He hit 30 homers and .245 after his age 32 season (two seasons combined). Cecil weighed 230. Prince is listed at 275. Look up guys like him. Mo Vaughn. There’s a few more. You will see that they produced up until their age 32 season and tailed off…
Mo Vaughn had an .805 ops in 139 games at age 34.
I’m not doing the research for you, but check out how durable he’s been over the years. One of the tops in baseball.
Although Fielder has been extremely durable so far, it’s always dangerous to use past health as an absolute indicator of future health. Fielder is a very heavy dude and there’s always the possibility that his weight will start to take a toll on his knees soon, and that he’ll be much less durable in 3-4 years. I’m not saying it’s going to happen (I definitely don’t think he’ll be out of baseball at 32), but it’s definitely possible that his career arc will start heading downwards sooner than other players because of his build.
Perhaps the biggest question regarding Fielder’s durability will be “if he gets injured, will he recover as quickly from the injury as other players?” I could see Fielder having more trouble recovering from a knee/lower leg injury than other players, and that should be a concern for anyone signing him to a gigantic contract.
The Braves should be heavily marketing Jurrjens in the trade market rather than Prado. After the top free agent pitchers sign their new deals the value of Jurrjens should increase exponentially.
Report Update: Contract offers to Pujols, Reyes, Madson include an approximate total of $250 MM of deferred compensation, over the next 30 years.
Jair Jurrjens is a star? If star = solid #3, then yes, he is a star.
well i hope fielder can go to seattle … if seattle picks him up, it might motivate other players to go to seattle.. Maybe Grady Sizemore and Ryan Doumit who are from seattle . Imagine that lineup ichi,ryan,ackley,fielder,smoak,doumit,sizemore,olivo, carp.. and seattle has the right pitching to back it up maybe a frank francisco in the pen…… awesome…. and please stop comparing jurrjens to greinke….. jurrgens had a prettty nice first half but remember that when greinke got traded, he already was cy young…… piece out
Jon Heyman is such a jerk as he knows he was duped by Scott Boras and now is trying to cover his tracks. Everyone knows the Phillies run a tight ship and they have not leaked information in awhile. Why would they do it now?
“Jurrjens understandably popular on trade market. A star and only 25. You know Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, others are in.”
A star, really? Stop talking about baseball, Heyman.
This is why Heyman and others get paid to do what they do . Cause they obviously know more about MLB players than the fans who try to be MLB analyst and rank players on what they think they know . And thats why you sir aren’t making the $$$ Heyman is .
What is Heyman’s salary? And how do you know Sniderlover doesn’t make as much or more?
$1,000,000.00 a year . LOL . Heck , I don’t really know . But I do know that Jurrjens would be a #1 on at least 1/3 of all the MLB teams . He may not dazzle you with a 95+ fastball or a breaking ball that breaks two feet . But the guy gets outs and doesn’t give up a lot of runs . And he is one of those guys that seems to get tougher when he has runners on . Should he be called an elite player ? No . But a star ? Possibly , considering that he went to the AS game last year as on of the Best pitchers in baseball before the AS break .