11:08pm: Johnson has accepted arbitration, tweets Jon Heyman of MLB Network.
3:28pm: It sounds very likely Johnson will accept arbitration, tweets MLB.com's Gregor Chisholm.
2:31pm: There's a "good chance" Kelly Johnson returns, Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos told Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca. The second baseman could accept Toronto's arbitration offer, or perhaps sign a multiyear deal.
First! not sure how i feel about this.. any thoughts?
FAIL!! 7th**
The picks would have been good but I think AA realized they already have enough picks in next years draft considering the spending limits will change their strategy. More picks is not necessarily a good thing if you can’t afford to sign them all.
Kelly Johnson is a solid 2B with 800+ OPS potential in the next few seasons. He’s a LH bat and is more appealing to me than some of the other trade options (which will cost prospects so essentially the same as picks) like Prado, O-Dog, Callaspo etc.
The more picks you have, the more money you have to sign them.
Are you sure? My understanding was that there was an equal cap that all teams could spend.
I’m fairly certain Joshua is correct, otherwise there would be no point of having slot values
No, Joshua is write.
since when is Kelly a SS?
you know what I meant. I fixed it so you could fall asleep later tonight.
1. You get more money if you have more draft picks
2. Kelly Johnson plays 2B not SS
As already mentioned, I fixed the typo… get over it.
Be careful not to feed the trolls.
I’m not sure how you feel about this as well.
I’m not sure how you feel about this as well.
As a
As a Jays fan, I don’t mind at all.
Strange that AA would speak publicly about a FA.
Generally speaking, when AA comments on something like that it means it’s basically a done deal
there goes the 2 picks and it probably means SS prospect Hec will be traded if KJ signs long term
I doubt that. THey would just trade Kelly Johnson later if Hech ever is able to handle the majors and that’s a big IF. The guy has sucked at the plate across all levels except for short spurts.
Not even close.
Hech sucks anyway (his offence is absolutely horrible), it’s not even a big deal if he gets traded, which he won’t.
I can’t remember where or when, but AA once said that Hechs promotion to the show will likely come as a utility role first. If he figures out how to hit, he’s a starter if not, he’s an above average utility.
Certainly hopes that AA signs KJ to a one yr deal and tag a team option on top of it, then if he plays well in mid season we can get another controllable player with high potential back. AA is all about controllable player with upside KJ is not, unless he is willing to sign a Eskobar like deal which is highly unlikely.
AA cannot be happy that KJ accepts arb, no GM will. That is why arb to FA is expected to be declined. This is the last chance that the Jays can gain the system to get more picks.
Sorta mixed about this… I would love the draft picks, however if you want to contend, you can’t have an insurance option in Valbuena starting as your 2B.
Below average player + high salary + no picks = bad for Jays
Correction – Above average player + cheap salary 1 year deal + who cares about picks under CBA system = good for jays
Correction – Above average fielder + awful hitter + costly 1-yr deal that doesn’t hurt the Jays long term + would be nice to get the picks, but would rather have a 2B locked up for next year = alright for Jays
From what I’ve seen I’d put his bat ahead of his D
He’s not an awful hitter lol… He’s a year removed from a 284/370/496 triple slash line and his latest salary is 5.85mil. What’s he going to get in arb, 6-7 mil? The mets paid Franky 2/12 mil to be their closer and Rauch 3.5 mil to throw gopher balls, As a comparison… Mark Ellis was paid 6 mil for a 248/288/346 line. Also, Valbuenna is our backup 2b.. do we really want him starting?
D is horrible, bat is mediocre, he’ll get like 8 million, and picks are still very valuable for Toronto. Those are the facts, deal with it.
So sayeth the Lord, the Lord hath spoken!
Below average poster = bad for MLBTR
Yes, you are bad for MLBTR. Try confronting the facts rather than hiding behind a poor attempt at wit.
Are you sure AA said that? he never says anything about a free agent and a trade..This is probably just a rumour and it came out of Bob Elliots azz
I miss KJ, but I love Hill and McDonald so far!
Hill and McDonald was a great trade for you guys… Johnny Mac is the Man
I think it’s a very good thing for the Jays. 2B Free Agent Market this year was pretty weak this year, not to say inexistant and now we avoid trading prospects to another team. It was a position that couldn’t be filled internally and I think Johnson is allright in this line-up for the moment. Now it’s time to make a push for a top-of-the-rotation pitcher.
or prince fielder!
As much as I would love to see Fielder with the blue uniform, I really can’t see it happening. AA made it clear he didn’t want to commit in a 5+ years contract, which is seek by Boras. However, with the relatively low payroll we have and the upgrade Fielder would give to our line-up, I would take the risk. But that’s just my humble opinion.
There’s still hope! The Cubs wear blue!
I don’t think a Fielder deal would be good unless it were just for 5 years. Go over six, and you sacrifice the future for the next few seasons.
Now, if the Jays were able to field a rotation of Romero, Morrow, and a Gio Gonzalez and/or Ervin Santana, then I’d say greenlight a 6+ year deal, because that would be a championship caliber team.
If this happens, the FA 2B market is essentially finished. Not really a starter left amongst the entire available group.
Prado interest bound to intensify…
-C
I do not mind this at all. Now for the starter and we’ve got a couple of our problems settled.
At least the Tigers didn’t try to overpay for him
I like KJ. Liked the trade at the end of last season, too. Good for both teams. With the Yankees grabbing Nakajima, KJ was the best readily available option.
If we lose Kelly, we have to find a 2B through a trade. No better 2B available in the FA. For good 2B, Jays have to give atleast two good prospects which are equivalent to two prospects that Jays get in the 1st round if Kelly leaves. We won’t know whether those two new prospects will be better than those who we give up in trade. The best case scenario is to keep Kelly and sign a multi year contract since we don’t have good 2B in our system.
Kelly Johnson agent really that dumb? Decline.. and he’ll make more guaranteed money!!
No he wont. Accept Arb and have a good season and he will make HUGE money
He could probably get two-three years, at maybe 8-12 million total in this market. Accepting arbitration, he’ll definitely make 6-8 million for only one year, put himself in a great lineup with a chance to produce and cash in big time next year. And even if he has a season like last year, he’ll still probably be able to make more money later.
I like this move. He was on a pretty decent hitting team in Arizona and was capable of producing. Don’t love the defense, don’t love the strikeout numbers, but put him in a lineup with Bautista, Escobar, Lind, Lawrie, Rasmus…I think he’ll produce, maybe get that average back up around .270-.280 and hit 20-25 home runs. Hell, he can steal bases too, that never hurts.
JPA, Lind, KJ, Escobar, Lawrie, Rasmus, Bautista, Thames/Schnider, EE…this lineup should be mashing homeruns next year. Closer is all set…if they can shore up the pen and add another big starter (Gio Gonzalez, Ervin Santana), they’ll be in contention next year I think.
And hey, if Davis can put up an average north of .250 and continue to steal bases like he does, and if KJ puts up some decent numbers, the Jays will have some nice trade pieces at the deadline.
The trick is in the pitching. They need four guys outside of Romero who can be solid starters this season. It will be not more than 81 wins without an improvemnet with the starters.
I think Romero and Morrow are the starting points.
I think Cecil or Villaneuva can be ok for the 5th spot.
So you have:
1. Romero
2.
3. Morrow
4.
5. Cecil/Villaneuva
So you need a 2 & 4. I think an inhouse option might be ok for the 4th, like McGowan or you could go after a guy like Jon Garland, Jeff Francis, Edwin Jackson, maybe take a flier on Rich Harden or Brandon Webb, or Hiroki Kuroda…A great number two like Gio Gonzalez, Ervin Santana, Roy Oswalt…etc.
If the rotation looked like this, they’d have a great chance:
1. Romero
2. Santana
3. Morrow
4. Kiroda
5. Cecil/Villaneuva/McGowan
To be perfectly honest, I’d like to see the Jays give up a top prospect or two, Schnider, Thames, etc etc for Justin Upton.
Oh I think There are names to put on spots. Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Villaneuva will all likely be given a shot. Alvarez probably gets the 5th spot. But of those 5 guys you can bank on 2 of then either getting injured or having a rough start. Where do you go from there? Drabek? Litsch? Perez? Well now we are talking about a shaky rotation and another year without the post season.
I agree, at least 1 or 2 starters would be huge.
It will take a lot more than what you are suggesting to get Justin Upton. One of Snider/Drabek/Lawrie would have to be included. Maybe 2.
McGowan, You forgot McGowen.
With What they have now I’d say the Jays Rotation starts out as…
1. Romero
2. Morrow
3. McGowan
4. Alvarez
5. Cecil
… that’s okay but not great. They need another high quality arm in there. Someone good enough to bump Morrow down to the #3 and maybe put Cecil in the pen (since they could use another lefty reliever).
Thank you, this is much more reasonable.
I consider him a gamble at this point. He might get a few starts, but I highly doubt he’ll be pencilled in as the #3 starter. He’s pitched 21 innings in the last 3 years, and didn’t look particularly sharp either.
He can get starts in September when the team is already out of it, but I don’t think Farrel will give him the ball 1 out of every 5 games in April.
I think his comeback is a great story, but you play the game to win.
Yeah, you’re right. They don’t really need Upton, the lineup is not really issue, and should only get better with Rasmus for the whole year, Lawrie for the whole year, Kelly Johnson for the whole year and improvements from Thames & Arencibia…and hopefully R. Davis.
I hope CJ Wilson signs with the Angels, because then Ervin Santana will most likely be available. If they can get him, another halfway decent starter, and a couple guys for the pen, they WILL contend next year.
Santana is a #2, yet Edwin Jackson is a #4?
I think Romero and Morrow are the starting points.
I think Cecil or Villaneuva can be ok for the 5th spot.
So you have:
1. Romero
2.
3. Morrow
4.
5. Cecil/Villaneuva
So you need a 2 & 4. I think an inhouse option might be ok for the 4th, like McGowan or you could go after a guy like Jon Garland, Jeff Francis, Edwin Jackson, maybe take a flier on Rich Harden or Brandon Webb, or Hiroki Kuroda…A great number two like Gio Gonzalez, Ervin Santana, Roy Oswalt…etc.
If the rotation looked like this, they’d have a great chance:
1. Romero
2. Santana
3. Morrow
4. Kiroda
5. Cecil/Villaneuva/McGowan
To be perfectly honest, I’d like to see the Jays give up a top prospect or two, Schnider, Thames, etc etc for Justin Upton.
Davis probably won’t steal too many bases as the 4th outfielder.
He should get 6.5 mil in Arb.
It’s funny, you would think the market for 2B would be bigger. Hiroyuki Nakajima only gets one suiter and Johnson can’t find a team to pay him more than 6 mil.
I also think its suspicious and AA never talks about this stuff. If theres any truth to this I would expect it will happen right away.
He did have the lowest batting average among all regular 2B’s in all of MLB last season. Was much better after the trade though.
Big move AA.
Could be AA posturing, trying to get another team to put forward a multi-year offer before the arb deadline. If that is the case though, I am really not sure what the backup plan is.
take the draft picks, its the last time we will be able to hoard them. kj might be gone after next year so get what you can now.
This isnt up to AA, the anticipated demand for KJ just isnt there so he
might accept the offer. With that said a multiyear deal would make sense
and would also avoid a potential arbitration hearing.
This isnt up to AA, the anticipated demand for KJ just isnt there so he might accept the offer. With that said a multiyear deal would make sense and would also avoid a potential arbitration hearing.
Can KJ tell us already… the suspense is killing me
looks like we got him on arb… prob. have to pay him close to 7.5m or more
about time!
My friend floated this trade to me today and I don’t think it’s great but it’s not terrible either: Johnson, Yunel and a pitching prospect for Phillips and Alonso. Any thoughts?
I’m completely comfortable with the Jays middle infield combination, and I don’t think AA would compromise his lineup by forcing Adeiny Hecc-something-something to hit against major league pitching 3-4 times a game. If the Jays could keep Yunel and still package a deal for Phillips then I would on board for that.
Something like:
Deck McGuire
Adeiny Hech.
Kelly Johnson
–
Brandon Phillips?
I think that that is too much for Phillips. I don’t see the jays giving up Adeiny until he is closer to the majors. I think the Jays will look at Phillips and Alonso as the same priority but I would personally rather try to grab Alonso, I think he will be pretty good.
I think you are massively under-rating Phillips right now. I think he won a Gold Glove and Silver Slugger this year, and as far as I know his presence on the field is irreplaceable. He, along with Cano, Pedroia, and Kinsler round out the top 4 2B in all of baseball (in any particular order). At any rate I think Phillips plays a scarce hitting position, he plays great defense, and I think would be worth the middling status of Hech and a major-league ready prospect from the wealth of TOR pitching prospects. the structure of my deal wouldn’t really change, the pitching prospect would probably be the only part with flexibility in terms of personnel. Still think Jocketty would have to listen if a 3-1 deal to get a controllable major league arm came and the trade took Phillips out of the NL.
Hutchison/Syndegaard/McGuire (either or)
Hech
K.Johnson
–
Phillips
?
Phillips is coming off his best offensive season since ’07, putting up relatively mediocre seasons in ’08-’10, albeit with excellent defense. I’d rate him behind the other 3 2B you mentioned, and I’d also take Zobrist over Phillips.
Although I agree you’re trade offer is still pretty fair (I’m not super knowledgeable of the Jays farm, however), but I think the Jays would want to sub someone in for Hech, just in case he figures it out offensively.
Phillips will be getting 12M n 2012, whic will be his last year. He wants a five year deal around 60M. We don’t know wthether he wants to sigin with Jays yet. Giving that many good prospects will harm Jays’ inventory in the farm specially when/if they want to deal guys like Votto in the future.
Seems like a lot of talent for the Reds to give up, so the prospect would have to be a top 5 prospect in the Jays’ stocked system… Even then I’d think the Jays still come up short. Phillips is a great ballplayer and could fetch that package by himself. Adding Alonso doesn’t serve the Reds any good.
Terrible trade for Cincinnati. Never going to happen. No wonder Wilner goes nuts every once in a while, dealing with pie in the sky ideas like this.
Terrible trade for Cincinnati. Never going to happen. No wonder Wilner goes nuts every once in a while, dealing with pie in the sky ideas like this.
that sucks for the jays depending on the prospect. Given Escobar’s contract and abilities at a position even more scarce than 2B, the Jays would have to be really blown away to give up their starting SS.
that sounds awful…. yunel > philips, his contract is extremely team friendly and philips is not that much better, look at their overall numbers, not their home runs, also alonso is kind of like david cooper…… plus alonso is a bad defence good bat first basemen, we dont really need more of those.
would have to be phillips and alonso +
escobar is nearly as good as phillips, entering his prime and is signed to one of the most team friendly SS contracts in the league. the jays would be getting an older, more expensive, less controllable, less positionally important player in phillips. huge loss for the jays there.
alonso carries a lot more value than johnson because of years of control, but that is kind of moot because no one knows if he has an elite bat for a 1B.
jays give up another pitching prospect in the deal too…
i dont think theres any way the jays make this kind of deal
another way to think about it:
if you have doubts about kelly johnson, his career batting line is substantially better than phillips.
.260/.343/.441 vs. .272/.323/.434
johnson’s had the less consistent career to date, and he is not as good a fielder, but any differences between johnson and phillips are dwarfed by the difference in value between yunel and alonso, so jays would lose that deal badly.
Brandon Phillips is horribly overrated and benefits from playing at that kids playground in Cincy.
His average homerun distance last year 400 feet. I don’t think his benefits as a baseball player are dependent on the distance of the homerun fence…
I’m happy with this…honestly he’s easily the best 2B available, unless they wanted to trade for Prado. I think he’ll have a nice bounce back season for the Jays. AA wanted to bring him back because he does take walks, and has some nice pop from 2B.