The Rangers aren't likely to sign free agent right-hander Roy Oswalt, a source tells Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. The sticking point seems to be that the Rangers saw Oswalt as "a key piece of depth," whereas Oswalt wasn't interested in pitching out of the bullpen and wanted a $10MM contract. Texas also didn't want to move Matt Harrison out of the rotation to make room for Oswalt.
With Texas seemingly out of the picture and the Nationals agreeing to sign Edwin Jackson, Oswalt's market seems to be down to the Red Sox and Cardinals, as he has already turned down an offer from the Tigers and told the Indians and Blue Jays he's not interested in signing with either club. Boston and St. Louis have both made offers to Oswalt in the range of a one-year, $5MM contract, and the Cardinals are shopping Kyle McClellan to try and free up payroll.
Hopefully the Red Sox can get it done
and not overpay for him
…
good.
I’m all for comfort over money but it’s generally not in your best interests to make your 1st or 2nd choice a team loaded with cheap controllable young starters.
Looking like St. Louis or bust for him. Maybe Houston but it’s not looking good for him.
I agree. But, as Red Sox fans will tell you, Massachusetts is closer to Mississippi than Missouri. At least according to the maps they have.
Not to mention that Red Sox fans can’t fathom why he would prefer the 2011 World Champions to the 2011 Chokers of the Year.
Marilyn Green…….. from Redbird Rants?
Yes.
He’d play for Atlanta and they choked just as bad or worse than Boston did.
It comes down to comfort. He had to be convinced to play in Philadelphia and they were coming off back to back National League Pennants.
Boston blew a bigger lead… They were worse.
The team they blew their lead to went on to win the WS. That’s gotta sting.
Playing for a team that was one good pitcher away from contention last year makes a lot more sense than playing for a team that doesn’t have a spot for you to play.
There are legitimate reasons why he would (should) choose the Cardinals over the Red Sox but what happened last year has nothing to do with it.
You missed the point. It isn’t about what happened any year. It’s about the hubris of many Red Sox fans.
I’m not sure where the “hubris” part fits in…
The only hubris is his own, he’s the one making “he’ll sign with my team because my team is awesome, and your stinks” comments.
Also, he doesn’t realize it took something just shy of two miracles (Boston having one of the worst Septembers on record, and his team making one of the better late season comebacks in recent history) for his awesome team to have exactly the same record as Boston’s terrible team had (in a way weaker division than Boston no less).
Haha, that’s the only thing I was able to take solace in this season: that the Sox had the same record as the eventual World Series champs.
SHE is making the point that many Red Sox fans seem to believe that just being the Red Sox is good enough reason for any player to prefer them regardless of any other meritorious reason to prefer another team.
I have yet to see a single person say that he will pitch for Boston just because it’s Boston. In fact, most of the Boston fans I’ve seen on here have recognized the fact that Boston is not the most logical place for him to go. So as far as I’m concerned you can take your false generalizations and obvious dislike for Boston fans elsewhere.
You need to visit other forums besides this one then. That attitude is everywhere. I had a Red Sox fan say exactly that to my face in a restaurant yesterday. I also saw it on Twitter, Facebook and some blogs. It may not be your attitude, but it exists nonetheless.
seems like you encourage this.. chances are you are one of ‘those’ card fans .
get over it. you’re making a mole hill in to a mountain.
(insert woman joke here)
“why he would prefer the 2011 World Champions to the 2011 Chokers of the Year” is about the hubris of many Red Sox fans? Seems to be more about the hubris of Marilyn Green.
That was sarcasm, ever heard of it?
The hubris is the idea I have heard all over the internet, that any player must prefer to play for the Red Sox because…they are the Red Sox.
No, what’s that?
hubris was clearly the word of the day on the tp.
When you say 2011 Chokers. The name the most comes to mind is the first to worst Red Sox that came down to the last game of the season just to watch the Rays take it from you
hopefully the Sox sign him, cuz i would hate for the big Sox signing to be Cody Ross
Don’t be suprised if the red sox swoop in
Only if he wants to pitch in the toughest division in baseball for what he considers chump change… That rumored 5-6m that the Sox offered both he and Jackson and don’t seem to be willing to budge on either.
It looks like they are willing to go to ST with the bunch of retreads they signed to ML deals (Padilla, Cook, Silva, Miller etc) and let them fight it out for the 5th spot rather than budge one dime over their original offer and Oswalt has put himself in a jam by limiting his choice of teams, not to mention already declining 10m from Detroit.
I don’t think he wants to play for Boston. He may have no choice though.
If it’s down to the Cardinals and Red Sox I think there’s a very good chance he lands in Boston, despite what they said about sticking with the guys they have.
St Louis would make a lot more sense for a guy in his position (besides the proximity to his home); the NL would be better for him to prove his effectiveness, Busch Stadium is way more pitcher friendly than Fenway, and the NL central is way easier on pitchers than the AL East. But the Cardinals already have a full rotation and don’t seem to be all that motivated to sign him (he went to them as opposed to the other way around, and they didn’t offer any more than the Red Sox).
Now that Hamilton fell off the wagon again, maybe a roster spot will open up for a 6th starter.
because replacing your starting CF is less useful than creating an extra spot in the rotation? ok..
he had some alcohol.. its tough news, but it could have been worse.
Thank You
Well, it looks like he’ll either go to St. Louis or retire. This is assuming he stays true to his word about staying close to home. Of course, there’s always the infamous “Mystery Team..”
Maybe Houston will/should swoop in now. Sign him, get him the two win to become the all time winningest pitcher for them then trade him at the deadline (hope he doesnt get hurt) One of these tams will need pitching come July, someone always gets hurts, and no one knows which team that will be this early.
He should pay for himself in Houston and make an agreement with him that you can trade him to a fistful of teams at the deadline and its a win, win situation. The Astros get picks, he gets to be close to home in a familiar place. If he does get hurt or suck, then you still can trade Wandy or Myers at the deadline if they perform better, them all of them including Lee can be off your books after the year and you have a Payroll around $20 million or less to go out and sign some free agents for the big move to AL next year :). See I have this all planned out for them!!! ( not sure who is a young free agent worth getting next year though)
This isnt the year of the dragon, its “The year of the forced retirement.”
Derrek Lee, Oswalt, Vlad and Damons (obviously since nothing is official on any of them retiring dont bash the speculation).
Still holding out hope he’l reconsider the Tigers
It’s a perfect fit and about out of options. He should have taken the $10MM he was offered before, because Detroit has leverage now.
Depends on what’s more important to him: the extra cash or playing for one of his preferred teams.
Certainly not a lot of options left if the Rangers are truly out.
He doesn’t want to play in Detroit or Boston. They are the only teams that appear to be interested and have an opening in the rotation.
He hasn’t turned Boston down like he has Detroit, and he hasn’t told them he wasn’t interested like Toronto or Cleveland, so they are still technically a possibility. Obviously he would prefer Texas or St Louis, but I think he’s leaving Boston out there as a fall back plan in case neither Texas or St Louis end up wanting/being able to make room for him.
If you believe what Cherington said today though Boston may have taken themselves out of it (although that could have just been Boston trying to press the issue and get Oswalt to make a decision sooner; if he thinks his fall back plan is going away and it looks like the teams he prefers aren’t interested it could maybe force him to make a decision. That could be me being optimistic though…)
“If you believe what Cherington said today though Boston may have taken themselves out of it”
Am with you there and think that was just “GM speak” for him to hurry up and make his decision with Bobby V about to head to The Fort and P & C reporting in 2 weeks. It’s time for a yes or no on Boston’s end and no more games.. He can play it with someone else.
I can’t believe he turned down the Tigers offer. They are a team that will very likely be in the postseason and he would be a full-time starter from day 1.
The problem for the Red Sox in signing Oswalt right now is that they are probably still hoping Selig will hand them Garza. And even if they don’t think that will happen in the final resolution, they probably still want to keep asking for Garza, if for no other reason for leverage in the compensation discussions.
The Cubs compensation has never had any bearing at all on what they are offering for pitchers. They knew and know that they aren’t going to get Garza.
The reports were that they were asking for him. Doesn’t mean they thought they would get him, but when you are negotiating, you ask for the moon. Signing Oswalt would undercut that. There’s also the money issue. If the Sox are serious about the tax threshold, they can’t take on too much more. Again, if they sign Oswalt, they would need very cheap prospects from the Cubs, or a large chunk of cash to offset the expense.
They asked for the moon but they didn’t expect it. This is a terrible argument.
Just a speculation. Newspaper and on line reports were the Sox were demanding Garza. The Cubs. naturally, said no. I really wasn’t looking for a fight with Red Sox fans, I was just making an observation about negotiating, particularly in the context of what the Red Sox front office has been expressing about payroll (and the trade of Scutaro). I certainly think if they can sign Oswalt for $5 Million it would be a great deal, and maybe it would be a great enough deal to bust the luxury tax threshold for this year.
There is no way they would hold off in signing a player who could/would put them over the top this year, and a player who is exactly what they need, just so they can try to get a little better compensation from the Cubs. They just wouldn’t.
And they aren’t going to get anyone from the Cubs’ 40 man roster so the salary of whatever player(s) they get as compensation aren’t going to have any effect on the luxury tax, and wouldn’t have any bearing on whether they could/would sign Oswalt.
The Cubs compensation doesn’t have anything to do with this.
Respectfully, to both MaineSox, and Blue_Bomb, I think it’s very possible that Bud will grant the Sox the “substantial” compensation they have been asking for. Maybe it won’t be from the 40 man roster, and it’s pretty unlikely to be Garza, but they are going to get something. And I think the Sox might just hold off on making a major expenditure because this is the ideal year for them to get under the threshold. So, if you are the Sox GM, how do you thread the needle-avoid the tax threshold, sign Oswalt, deal with the rest of your roster needs, and collect compensation? Does Selig force a trade, so the salary component is neutral? I don’t know. I think this is a little bit of three-dimensional chess, and it’s going to be interesting to see how it resolves itself.
If the player(s) aren’t from the 40-man roster it doesn’t count toward the luxury tax, and therefor wont have any bearing on whether they can stay under the tax or not; that being the case, it has nothing to do with the dicision of whether or not to sign Oswalt. Also, most reliable estimates of their payroll have them already over the luxury tax threshold, so it’s a matter of whether or not they want to go further over the limit. But again, there really isn’t a connection between the Cubs compensation and the decision of whether or not to sign Oswalt.
The luxury tax threshold and Oswalt may be (probably are) connected, but the Cubs compensation and Oswalt aren’t connected and the Cubs compensation and the luxury tax aren’t connected.
On this site I’ve seen posters talk about Garza and Castro. It’s probably wishful thinking, but who knows what it’s going to be? I do think Selig is going to be solicitous and try very hard not to create additional problems, but he too, has to thread the needle. And remember, whatever the compensation is can be traded, and Ben is a smart guy. I just think that in this type of a volatile situation, nothing should be ruled out.
People on this site say a lot of things; it’s not going to be Garza or Castro.
“they aren’t going to get anyone from the Cubs’ 40 man roster”
I really hope that does not come about. If they don’t get one of a couple people I have in mind… This will have been a total waste.. The Cubs have a system with little to choose from really and they must be trying to give Boston nearly nothing in return.
I take it you have looked over the recent 40 man additions?
I haven’t seen who they have added recently, but all indications seem to point to the Sox getting a lottery ticket guy or two from the lower minors, and those guys wouldn’t be on the 40-man roster.
Now am really disgusted.. Not that was at all expecting a Castro or anything by any means. But this is ridiculous now…
They should just throw Jenks back to Epstein and forget about the entire mess.
As I have said here several times.. Even Guillen was worth something.
At least he should be worth Jenks salary relief then over some dogs from a system that really has almost nothing anyway.
Come on Royals, goddamn it…
Its not Gods fault! Royals fans blame God, Red Sox fans blamed the Babe, Cubs fans and the goat. Wow its always someone else Haha.
As a Red Sox fan, I want no part of a pitcher who falls apart seemingly EVER year. How about we trade pieces to Cardinals for Kyle. I’d rather him than Oswalt anyway.
What would a deal with Boston look like? I am not familiar with Boston’s prospects.
No one is because they don’t exist.
Bull, their farm system is currently ranked 11th.
I suppose, but they’re all playing for Lowell 😛
What are you talking about? Prior to this year, when he was injured, Oswalt had pitched 180+ innings in 8 of the previous 9 years, and he’s averaged 196 innings per season for his career.
Kyle Lohse has pitcher 180+ innings 5 times in the last 9 years and has averaged 160 innings per season for his career. He also isn’t as good of a pitcher as Oswalt even when he is pitching. He would also not only cost more money but would also cost a good deal of talent (prospects) to get him from the Cardinals.
The same Oswalt with back issues and considering retirement the last couple of years?
No thanks. He was (emphasis on was) great. I’m not interested as a fan in a question mark in the rotation when Buchholz is already one.
Even when he was pitching injured last year he was a better pitcher than Lohse, so I don’t know how you can say that Oswalt isn’t good enough but you want Lohse on the team. It just doesn’t make sense; Oswalt is a better pitcher, he’s been more consistently good and more consistently healthy than Lohse, he would be cheaper than Lohse, and he wouldn’t cost prospects like Lohse. I really just don’t get it.
I doubt it would take any decent prospects to get the Cards to agree to trade Lohse if the Red Sox would be willing to pay even half of his salary, but he does have a no trade clause, and it has been said he would not waive it. And I doubt he could be talked into waiving it to go from the NL Central to the AL East in his contract year.
Even mediocre prospects are more than it would take to get Oswalt, and even half of his salary is more than either Boston or St Louis has offered Oswalt to this point. And then there’s the fact that Oswalt is simply better.
Cards aren’t trading Lohse. McClellan is the most likely, Westbrook is an outside chance, Lohse is a no-go
I’m hoping this gives the Sox more leverage, especially since the Cardinals don’t seem that motivated I guess? (Even though that would make the Cards instant playoff, if not necessarily division, favorites in my book)
Still, I’m not getting my hopes up. I’ve been a Red Sox fan long enough to know not to >_>
A old pitcher with back problems makes them the favorite? Come on the Reds win that division by 8 games right now. Oswalt is not going to have a war of 8.
I *specifically* said “not necessarily division”
All things even, I think that Oswalt stays in the National League and signs with St. Louis. The Red Sox really should beware of an NL pitcher for so many years coming to the AL.
Is anyone else tired of people asserting the AL’s offensive superiority?
Do you think their overall offense isn’t superior?
overall, because of the DH, the offenses may be a little higher. but it’s a case-by-case basis. People act like moving from the NL to the AL is going to add a whole run to a pitcher’s ERA. The NL isn’t AAA.
4 of the top 5 and 8 of the top 10 offenses in baseball were in the AL last year, while 3 of the bottom 5 and 6 of the bottom 10 were in the NL.
And no, moving from the NL to the AL might not add a full run to their ERA, but studies have been done to show that it does add a half a run. (a mid-3s ERA pitcher becomes a 4 ERA pitcher, a 4 ERA pitcher becomes a mid-4s ERA pitcher etc.).
You are full of c r a p. Name the studies that you are talking about. For every positive stat, you need a negitive stat. So if the AL has better hitting, than they must have worse pitching.
I can’t post links, but google “pitchers moving from the NL to the AL” The first two link both talk about it, one from hardballtimes and one from nytimes.
Oh, and also, the NL does have better pitching.
better pitching…because they are facing worse offenses..
Good point thank of all the studs in the NL in comparision to the AK. The best pitching staffs are def. in the NL (minus the Rays)
solid argument..
The thing is that the AL actually IS offensively superior. I made a lengthy, now-surely-lost post on the MLBTR forum about this last year.
Actually here it is: mlbtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=81141#post81141
Here, here. The AL is superior because ESPN tells you that they are superior. ESPN only hired people from New York and Boston.
And also because stats say they are…
AL average: .258/.323/.408 – .321 wOBA – 99 wRC+
NL average: .253/.319/.391 – .312 wOBA – 94 wRC+
Again due to better pitching. You already admitted that so whats your point.
It’s just as likely the the NLs pitching is better because of weaker hitting. And that last number (wRC+) is league adjusted (takes into account the quality of the opposition compared to the competition in the other league) so that isn’t a factor anyway. Nice try though.
if you want any proof to what happens to a pitcher moving from AL to NL
just check out roy halladay, mr consistency.. since his move to the phillies his number when from good to amazing..
this isn’t an argument..
I think that that is what he would prefer (and what would make the most sense for him) but they just don’t seem to have a spot for him, or much of a desire to sign him.
My money is on the Nationals. Why would they possibly stop now?
We’ll know for sure becuase there will be a “Chien Ming Wang Being Shopped” story right before they sign him…
Have Boston take KMac for salary and the Cards sign Oswalt. There. Everyone is happy. Getting KMac for basically his salary is a bargain. He’s an excellent reliever with the ability to step in and start if needed. And it would seem to fit in with the Sox payroll constraints.
He pitched really well the first part of the season, but towards the end he became gassed, so his ERA last year is deceiving.
Why would he not sign with the Tigers? They have an amazing offense and good 1/2 punch in Verlander and Fister, Scherzer can be very good, and adding Oswalt (f he stays healthy) makes them a great team. he has a very good chance to win there….does not make sense to me…
Bottom line…If you were Oswalt for about the same salary, do you want to pitch in the American League East with Boston, or do you want to pitch in the National League Central with St. Louis? Boston fans believe me are extremely demanding, the weather is cold, and Fenway Park is a nightmare for a pitcher. The American league east is a powerhouse, and now the west is even worst for a pitcher.
Unless Boston outbids St. Louis significantly, Oswalt will pick Bergman, Beltran, and the Cardinals