National League East teams averaged 84 wins last year, more than any division in baseball except the AL East. Here are some links from Florida, where NL East teams are preparing for the 2012 campaign…
- Bill Ladson of MLB.com hears from one person who believes the Nationals will trade John Lannan before Opening Day. The Nationals might seek prospects for Lannan, a Spring Training trade candidate.
- Marlins president David Samson recently said Miami's politicians are "not the intellectual cream of the crop," according to the business publication Miami Today. Samson suggested the population of Miami, which partially funded the Marlins' new stadium, is unintelligent. "We're not the smartest people in Miami," he said. His words are causing a stir, but he told the Miami Herald that he was "misquoted, misrepresented, mis-everything." UPDATE: Here's a clip of the comments. To my ear it does appear they were taken out of context.
- Samson also said Jose Reyes was all about the money this offseason, but Andy Martino of the New York Daily News reports that Reyes would have considered a deal worth less than $106MM from the Mets and was shocked when New York didn't make him an offer. Reyes would have seriously considered a five-year deal if the Mets had offered one, Martino reports.
- Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com asked three agents what Cole Hamels would obtain as a free agent after the season and heard guesses in the $150-175MM range. C.C. Sabathia’s seven-year, $161MM deal remains the record for pitchers, but Hamels could challenge it if he hits free agency after 2012.
Did Jon Heyman really have to ask three agents to find out he could challenge CC Sabathia?
Ultimately, I doubt he’ll do much better than Johan Santana, but the prospects of a huge deal are there.
Insulting the people who partially helped fund your new stadium seems pretty smart
Unfortunately, it’s not like the city can force them to take it down if they upset the status quo.
The check already cleared. It’s not like he cares anymore.
Public Relations: You’re doing it wrong.
The Mets couldn’t afford Reyes even with a home town discount. The team is broke.
Fred Wilpon is the problem.
Isn’t saying a politician is not the “intellectual cream of the crop” a tad redundant?
Nice. Quite true.
True, but it’s bad form to gloat when you get over on someone.
Ok… which part forced my last post to wait for approval? The fact that I was quoting the article or my less than subtle way of saying politicians are not the sharpest tools in the shed?
I think it was the word politician. It’s a dirty dirty word.
Seriously though, I love those quotes from Samson. It was a completely ridiculous thing for him to say in such a public forum (especially the “We’re not the smartest people in Miami” part), and it’s certainly not going to win over any fans, but I find it hilarious.
yea i have found you have to put everything very very very gentle or it wont post, or banned.
the mets coudn’t afford reyes for 1 yr. 1 million
Not even remotely close with that mark.
Regarding Samson’s comments, he’s probably correct. The people of Miami were unintelligent enough to dig into their own pockets to pay for a private pleasure palace, at the cost of basic services like schools, road, sanitation and cops. Let’s hope the people of the rest of the country are smarter the next time MLB comes to them palms-up.
The thing about mlb stadiums is that they bring revenues into the central city. Many people in the suburbs will choose not to come into the city, but if there is a game they will come in, and spend possibly on food, hotels, bars, shopping, parking. This all brings in revenue for the city because more demand for products = more businesses = more taxes. A responsible city will determine this efficient point between helping the businesses and overfunding a stadium. But completely funding a stadium, I dont need my econ degree to tell me they are not the brightest bulbs.
I largely agree with this-obviously there can be some synergies, including improving infrastructure and even the neighborhood. Camden Yards was a good example at the time it was built. The problem comes in when the pols lose sight of the end goal. When you start talking about close to a billion dollars in free public money, with tax increases to pay for debt, and the increased costs of maintaining the area (everything from roads to police) you need to generate an enormous amount of revenue. I guess I look at it differently-if the government wanted to pay for my office rent, storage, and furniture, I’d be a lot more profitable, and maybe I spend more with local vendors, buy more equipment, etc. As much as I like that idea, I’m not sure it’s fair to the rest of the taxpayers
Regarding Miami: Does anyone have any info or local news links about the supposed lawsuit of Miami citizens vs the Marlins concerning the stadium financing?
You would think the Nats would hold on to Lannan, at least until the trade deadline if they’re not contending. For a team that everyone says might compete this season, trading one of their starting pitchers for prospects doesn’t send the message that they’re competing this year, especially when that pitcher is a lefty who is valuable in a division with Chase Utley and Ryan Howard.
Wow, didn’t Samson step in it. I’ve always wondered if Samson has something on Loria or if he’s Loria’s secret son or whatever, since Samson is definitely not smart enough himself to be president of any company, much less comment on anyone else’s intelligence (or lack thereof). Although you have to wonder, given the financial numbers that came out about the Marlins a while ago and the fact that taxpayer money was spent on Marlins Park (and that Loria can sell the team without penalty after only three seasons at Marlins Park), whether Miami’s politicians really aren’t all that bright, or how much Samson paid them off…
It’s no secret. Samson is Loria’s son-in-law.
The Marlins are going to be fun to watch this year. I’m not a fan of theirs but I’ll be watching them on MLB TV and reading the Miami paper. You have a new stadium, a new meglomaniac manager, a ton of talented FAs with egos as big as Montana, and a front office with big mouths.
Yep…this is going to be a blast.
Can’t compare contracts from 10 years ago to now. Hamels numbers are better than CCs up to this point, so he could get a contract greater than his.
agree, when santana was traded to the mets he was top 3 pitchers in baseball, and had a very good offspeed stuff, which would suggest the ability to still get outs as he ages, hamels is good, but top 3, no way, he isnt even top 2 on his team.
Then you might as well not even bid because there’s no chance you getting Hamels with that offer. Hamels is, what, turning 28? Just entering his prime. Give it another year or two and he will be regarded as the best lefty in baseball (i already believe he is.)
Have you heard of this guy named Clayton Kershaw, perchance?
Kershaw > Hamels
Still bummed about that Jay Buhner trade?
As mentioned, Kershaw is definitely better. Also, I think two years from now you can argue that David Price and/or Matt Moore will be better than Hamels
Don’t get me wrong, Hamels is fantastic. However, let’s be honest, here…he’s not even the best lefty on his own team. I’d put him around #5 after Kershaw, Sabathia, Lee and Price. One guy who doesn’t get any ink in this conversation is Madison Bumgarner. I’m not saying that he’s top 5 or anything, but after this season he very well could be in the conversation. The guy won’t even turn 23 until late in the season.
I have!!!
Dodger fan here. Thank you for your sanity.
Wake me up when Kershaw does anything in the post season, pitches in a park & division that isn’t made up of canyons and offensively challenged teams.
chase field and coors field?
I don’t think they’re that far apart but Cole has never put up a season like Clayton Kershaw did last year.
They’re both on the upswing of their careers but Kershaw’s younger and better at a younger age.
Like all those offensive juggernauts and tiny hitters’ parks Hamels has to deal with in the NL East?
If Kershaw and Hamels were on the same team who would be #1 and why?
Tack on that CC has been averaging like 255 innings a year including postseason since 2007, and still keeps a low era.
I would put it at one other real ace in the market (cain)
greinke is a good pitcher, but i see him as a #2 on most contenders. If you remove Greinke’s 2009 year, he has not been an ace, his lowest era besides 09 was 3.47
Depends who’s bidding for Hamels. If a big market team really wants Hamels they could bid CC money. Hamels has proven that he could pitch in a tough big market team. Rangers and Yankees were offering Cliff Lee bigger money then what Cliff Lee took. Also, the Red Sox have big money contracts being removed by the end of this season and they do need another arm.
Greinke isn’t a ace. The only real competition is Cain.
CC has been averaging that in the AL. Lot easier to last longer when there’s no danger of your manager pulling you for a bat in the 7th/8th inning.
CBP and AT&T? The Ted and PetCo? Nationals Park and Dodger Stadium?
Sure, there’s a couple of exceptions, but the NLW is composed primarily of pitchers’ parks, and the NLE is composed primarily of hitters’ parks.
I tend to think it has to do with the fact that the East coast doesn’t have nearly as much room to spread out as the West (plus, the East was developed significantly earlier, so they weren’t designing cities with athletic facilities in mind), so they end up building smaller stadiums that fit the downtown areas. The West, meanwhile, has significantly more room to spread out cities, and designed as such, which leads to the feasibility of larger ballparks.
CBP and AT&T? The Ted and PetCo? Nationals Park and Dodger Stadium?
Sure, there’s a couple of exceptions, but the NLW is composed primarily of pitchers’ parks, and the NLE is composed primarily of hitters’ parks.
I tend to think it has to do with the fact that the East coast doesn’t have nearly as much room to spread out as the West (plus, the East was developed significantly earlier, so they weren’t designing cities with athletic facilities in mind), so they end up building smaller stadiums that fit the downtown areas. The West, meanwhile, has significantly more room to spread out cities, and designed as such, which leads to the feasibility of larger ballparks.
Yea, instead he has to face a dh instead of the pitcher. In the al that means, vs ortiz, hafner, Butler, etc. But none of those guys are as hard to get out as the pitcher that doesn’t take the bat off his shoulder for 3 strikes.
greinke could very well end up with aj burnett type money though
Because all of the pitchers in the NL take 3-pitch strikeouts, right? Not like any ever get on-base, lay down sac bunts, or hit the occasional HR…
But that’s totally irrelevant to what I was saying. My point, is that it’s a lot easier to pitch for 8 innings in the AL than it is in the NL, because unless you’ve got a dominating lineup behind you (which, incidentally, CC does) there’s a serious risk of you getting pulled in the 7th inning even if you’re pitching a 1-run game.
Yes, you can argue that the lineups are nastier in the AL as a result of the DH, but if you’re getting them out (which both CC and Hamels do – just look at Cole’s numbers in interleague play, or facing guys who will be the DH for AL teams this year), that’s all that matters in the AL. In the NL, you risk getting pulled because the offense is doing poorly, even if you’re still throwing wonderfully.
Because all of the pitchers in the NL take 3-pitch strikeouts, right? Not like any ever get on-base, lay down sac bunts, or hit the occasional HR…
But that’s totally irrelevant to what I was saying. My point, is that it’s a lot easier to pitch for 8 innings in the AL than it is in the NL, because unless you’ve got a dominating lineup behind you (which, incidentally, CC does) there’s a serious risk of you getting pulled in the 7th inning even if you’re pitching a 1-run game.
Yes, you can argue that the lineups are nastier in the AL as a result of the DH, but if you’re getting them out (which both CC and Hamels do – just look at Cole’s numbers in interleague play, or facing guys who will be the DH for AL teams this year), that’s all that matters in the AL. In the NL, you risk getting pulled because the offense is doing poorly, even if you’re still throwing wonderfully.
Because all of the pitchers in the NL take 3-pitch strikeouts, right? Not like any ever get on-base, lay down sac bunts, or hit the occasional HR…
But that’s totally irrelevant to what I was saying. My point, is that it’s a lot easier to pitch for 8 innings in the AL than it is in the NL, because unless you’ve got a dominating lineup behind you (which, incidentally, CC does) there’s a serious risk of you getting pulled in the 7th inning even if you’re pitching a 1-run game.
Yes, you can argue that the lineups are nastier in the AL as a result of the DH, but if you’re getting them out (which both CC and Hamels do – just look at Cole’s numbers in interleague play, or facing guys who will be the DH for AL teams this year), that’s all that matters in the AL. In the NL, you risk getting pulled because the offense is doing poorly, even if you’re still throwing wonderfully.
you may not agree, but texas, LAA, Bos, Det, all have better lineups than anyone in the NL; that is so much work to get a lower era.
LAA didn’t have a better lineup in 2011 than everyone in the NL. Neither did Detroit. Boston did, except for when it didn’t (April, September). Check the average ERAs for both leagues, and compare that to the RBIs scored for all teams. You might be surprised.
That said, that still in no way addresses the point I made to begin with, which is that it’s easier to last longer in games as a starter in the AL than the NL.
Probably Hamels because of experience.
Any team with a 1-2 of Hamels/Kershaw or Kershaw/Hamels would have a great problem to have.
Hamels’s home park has the ability to make any team into an offensive juggernaut.
The teams in the NL East are better as a whole because the Giants/Padres are so bad but the Diamondbacks/Rockies are better than the Braves/Marlins/Nationals IMO
For me, I’d go
1. Cliff Lee
2. Clayton Kershaw (he’ll be the best out of the group but his strike out numbers/era weren’t that much better than Cliff’s and I’m taking home ball parks into effect).
3. CC Sabathia
4. Jon Lester
5. Cole Hamels
6. David Price
I don’t think you can really go wrong with a ranking with these guys… this league is full of great pitching…. especially 1-2.
CBP is actually about average as far as park factors go; 2008-2009 it was a slight hitters park and in 2010-2011 it was a slight pitchers park.
Funny, according to FIP over the last three years that is the exact order of those pitchers.