AUGUST 1: The Dodgers are paying just $500K of the remainder of Arroyo’s deal, Mark Saxon of ESPN Los Angeles tweets. Arroyo is owed about $8MM, including his 2016 buyout, and it appears the Braves are paying almost all of that amount.
JULY 30: The Dodgers, Marlins and Braves have swung one of the most complex three-team trades in recent history. The “basic” structure of the deal (though there’s nothing basic about this move) is as follows: the Dodgers will receive right-hander Mat Latos and first baseman Michael Morse from the Marlins. They’ll also add top prospect Jose Peraza and pitchers Alex Wood, Bronson Arroyo, Jim Johnson and Luis Avilan from the Braves. Atlanta, in turn, will receive infielder Hector Olivera, lefty Paco Rodriguez and minor leaguer Zachary Bird from the Dodgers. The Braves are also picking up Miami’s Competitive Balance Round A pick in next year’s draft (No. 35 overall). The Marlins will come out of this deal with three minor league pitchers — Kevin Guzman, Jeff Brigham and Victor Araujo — plus the financial relief of shedding the remaining $14.3MM that is owed to Latos and Morse. Each team has announced the trade’s completion.
In making this trade, the Dodgers bolster their rotation not only for the remainder of the 2015 season but also potentially through the 2019 campaign. Latos, who is earning $9.4MM in 2015 and has $3.6MM of that sum remaining on his contract, is a free agent at season’s end, but Wood can be controlled for four years beyond the current campaign.
While he’s battled injuries and struggled early in the season, Latos has increased his velocity and upped his results since returning from a DL stint (as noted by MLBTR’s Steve Adams when examining his trade candidacy). All told, the 27-year-old Latos owns a 4.48 ERA with 8.0 K/9 against 2.5 BB/9 over 88 1/3 innings on the year. But ERA estimators view him more as a mid-3.00 ERA contributor, and that has shown up in his last seven starts, over which he’s allowed 15 earned runs in 45 2/3 frames with a 43:9 strikeout-to-walk ratio.
Wood is perhaps the more intriguing name here for the Dodgers, though. The 2012 second-round pick was never vaunted as a Top 100 prospect, but he’s emerged as a reliable cog in the Braves’ rotation over the past few seasons. Though many have expressed long-term health concerns with Wood and his numbers are down in 2015, his overall body of work is nonetheless impressive. Wood has a lifetime 3.10 ERA in 368 2/3 big league innings with very strong averages of 8.2 K/9 and 2.6 BB/9 to go along with a 46.5 percent ground-ball rate. Both Latos and Wood will join co-aces Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke in the Dodgers’ rotation, solidifying the starting five down the stretch. Those additions, however, demonstrate a different approach than many pundits expected, as L.A. was heavily rumored to be involved with the top names on the trade market.
In landing Johnson, the Dodgers are picking up a reliever that was serving as Atlanta’s closer and doing so quite well. Johnson led the AL in saves from 2012-13 before a down season in 2014. Atlanta snatched him up on a one-year, $1.6MM contract with enough incentives to carry the deal to $2.5MM if he maxes it out. He’s been an outstanding buy-low piece for the Braves and will carry a 2.25 ERA, 6.2 K/9, 2.6 BB/9 and 60.8 percent ground-ball rate into the Dodger bullpen, where he’ll help set up for Kenley Jansen.
The 26-year-old Avilan gives the Dodgers another left-handed relief option to pair with J.P. Howell and Ian Thomas, though it’s debatable whether he’s a long-term improvement over Rodriguez, who heads to Atlanta in the deal. Avilan has a 3.58 ERA on the season with a 31-to-10 K/BB ratio (though two of the walks were intentional) in 37 2/3 innings. He’s upped his velocity this season and his strikeout rate as well, but Avilan’s previous good fortune in terms of homer-to-flyball ratio has dried up this season, and he’s near the league average (above it, in fact) in that regard for the first time in his career. Avilan hasn’t missed a ton of bats throughout his career but does have strong overall totals against left-handed hitters.
Morse doesn’t really fit on the Dodgers’ roster and was likely included as a means of offsetting some salary, so it’s possible his stay with the Dodgers will be brief, at best. Los Angeles designated Eric Stults for assignment immediately upon acquiring him from the Braves earlier this year and did so with Ryan Webb as well, so there’s certainly precedent for them to flex their financial muscle as a procedural necessity and simply cut ties with the unwanted or superfluous players in a deal.
Arroyo serves as a second example of the Dodgers flexing their financial muscle. The veteran right-hander signed a two-year deal with the D-Backs prior to the 2014 season but underwent Tommy John surgery last summer and hasn’t pitched this season. Arizona unloaded his contract in a prior trade with the Braves, and that money will now go to the Dodgers, bringing the total amount of cash they’re eating in this deal to roughly $43.5MM. It’s possible, at least, that Arroyo could pitch at the back of the L.A. rotation down the stretch.
Dealing Peraza away was probably a tough pill to swallow for the Braves, who have long lauded him as one of their top prospects. The 21-year-old entered the season as a consensus Top 50 prospect in the game, and though his offensive numbers are down somewhat, that’s not necessarily a red flag for someone playing at the minors’ top level at the age of 21. That’s not to say, of course, that Peraza’s numbers are poor; he’s hitting .295/.319/.380 this season. Peraza ranks as the game’s No. 26 prospect on the midseason Top 50 from Baseball America and No. 30 on MLB.com’s midseason update to their own Top 100 prospect list. Peraza began his career as a shortstop and eventually moved to second base, but it’s not certain where the Dodgers project him in the future. He has little power but draws rave reviews for his speed and glove, and he’s swiped 149 bases over his past 310 minor league contests. I feel it should be noted that Peraza, too, could be a piece that the Dodgers will consider dealing, as they’re reportedly reluctant to part with their own top prospects: Corey Seager and Julio Urias.
As for the Braves, they’ll finally land a player they pursued extensively this offseason in the form of Olivera. Atlanta simply couldn’t match the Dodgers’ enormous $62.5MM offer to the 30-year-old infielder, but $28MM of that came in the form of a signing bonus that is to be paid in three installments. The Dodgers will pay the final two installments of Olivera’s signing bonus, tweets David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. That means the Braves are essentially taking on Olivera on a six-year, $32.5MM contract that began this season. He’s earning $2MM in 2015, of which about $754K remains, so their total financial commitment to him will be about $31.25MM over the course of five and a half years. That’s a much more palatable obligation for the Braves (who have notably shed significant payroll from their books by moving Melvin Upton Jr. and Craig Kimbrel since Olivera signed.)
Olivera, a right-handed hitting third baseman/second baseman, was said at the time he signed to be a safe bet to post strong average and OBP marks due to his pure hitting abilities and a keen eye at the plate. The question was how much power he’d show in the Majors, but some felt that he could be a 20-homer bat on a yearly basis. He’s looked sharp to this point in the minors, hitting .348/.392/.493 across three levels and reaching Triple-A. The Braves undoubtedly consider him to be a major component of their long-term future in the infield, though the specific position he’ll play is yet an unknown.
In Rodriguez, they’ll pick up a left-handed reliever who could be out for the season but has pitched well when healthy. Rodriguez had surgery to remove loose bodies from his elbow in late June — a procedure that will sideline him for eight to 10 weeks. However, the former second-round pick has been excellent while on the mound. He was the first player from the 2012 draft to reach the Majors, debuting the same year he was drafted, and he sports a lifetime 2.53 ERA with 9.6 K/9 against 3.2 BB/9.
The 21-year-old Bird has largely unimpressive numbers in the minors — a 4.74 ERA in 351 minor league innings — but MLB.com rated him 15th among L.A. farmhands. Per their scouting report, he made big strides with his velocity late in 2014 and has gone from a low-90s heater to a mid-90s offering that “threatens triple digits” at times. He still needs to get a better feel for his offspeed pitches and has a long ways to go as a slider, they add.
With all that said, we’re at last to the Marlins’ portion of the trade, which looks meager. Of the three names in question, only Brigham ranks among L.A.’s top 30 prospects, per MLB.com, who rank him 28th. Brigham had Tommy John surgery in college in 2012 and missed all of 2013 before pitching himself into the fourth round, their scouting report notes. He’s 90-94 mph with his fastball and has shown shaky control, though some of that can be attributed to the surgery. He’s punched out 75 hitters in 75 innings this year but has also walked 38 and has a 5.52 ERA.
Guzman is a 20-year-old starter pitching at the Class A level who has notched a 3.90 ERA with 6.7 K/9 against 3.1 BB/9 in 83 innings this year. The 22-year-old Araujo is in his second stint with Class-A Advanced and hasn’t found very favorable results. He’s missed plenty of bats (55 strikeouts in 50 innings) with solid control (14 walks) but has been hittable and ultimately surrendered a 5.40 ERA this season.
The Marlins had a number of ways they could go in terms of dealing Latos, but it seems they either prioritized shedding the Morse contract or simply didn’t find that teams were willing to offer much in return given his rental status, health concerns and early struggles. In the end, while this trade started off being termed the “Mat Latos trade,” it will be more remembered as a deal that netted the Braves their second baseman or third baseman of the future in exchange for a promising young arm and one of their top prospects.
Gordon Wittenmeyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reported (on Twitter) that Latos and Morse were headed to the Dodgers. Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald (Twitter link) and MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro (Twitter link) reported the financial components for Miami/L.A. and the inclusion of the Marlins’ draft pick. Jim Bowden of ESPN and MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM tweeted that a third team was potentially being brought in. Frisaro reported the prospects going to Miami. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reported the Braves’ inclusion (via Twitter). Joel Sherman of the New York Post said the Braves would get a young starter (Twitter links), and Rosenthal tweeted that Wood was the pitcher in question. Bowden tweeted Johnson’s inclusion. MLB.com’s Mark Bowman first suggested Peraza’s name (on Twitter) and Sherman confirmed his inclusion (via Twitter). Bowman also tweeted that Olivera was in the deal, and Bowden tweeted that Avilan was as well. Yahoo’s Jeff Passan tweeted that Bird was headed to Atlanta. Bowman added that Rodriguez was going to the Braves. Passan added the final wrinkle: Arroyo’s inclusion (Twitter links).
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Good. They didn’t need an “ace” style pitcher. They already have two of them atop the rotation. Just needed to replace the middle of the rotation. I hope it’s not too much given up.
@East Coast Bias … This is going to be an interesting offseason for Phils and Dodgers fans. I Hope Latos is a good enough 3 in the playoffs. Its not unlikely that Kershaw wont be able to carry the team, and grienke signs elsewhere in the offseason. At some point a team just has to go for it…. can’t always play for the perfect window/moment ,,,, it doesn’t ever come. Will see if this was enough. I doubt it,but good luck to the dodgers.
Playoffs are outlier, the best team rarely wins.
@Tac3. Phillies in ’08 won a World Series with a top-3 of Hamels, Brett Myers and Jamie Moyer. Mat Latos would’ve been the 2nd best starter on that team.
Additionally, each year, as they added another ‘ace’ to their rotation – whether it was Lee in ’09, Halladay/Oswalt in ’10, or Lee (again) in ’11 – they got eliminated earlier than the year before. Playoffs are a crap shoot like that. Some years Hamels/Moyer/Myers is enough; and other years you get knocked out in the 1st round with Hamels/Halladay/Lee/Oswalt.
Same thing happened to the Tigers… good rotation that added Fister went to the ALCS in 2011, added Sanchez in 2012 and got to the WS, they busted in the ALCS in 2013 despite Scherzer becoming an ace, added Price in 2014 and didn’t get out of the ALDS. Now, like the Phillies, the Tigers are free-falling and dealing said top ace. Assembling an expensive, All-Star rotation with expensive FA’s tends to blow up on teams.
Jeff Brigham! Really, how much can a team be asked to give up for a couple months of Mat Latos?
I agree with what was written in the article.
Latos has increased his velocity and upped his results since returning from a DL stint.
And his numbers against the Giants are pretty darn good.
Yeah that Grand Slam he allowed to Buster Posey in Game 5 of the 2012 NLDS was awesome.
You mean 1 game 3 years ago? Cool.
@SFgfan – that was pretty hilarious, reading down the comment section. Talk about dipping your toes in the water vs going for it. Pretty “courageous” by the Dodgers/
Gigantes fan here- but, Latos does pitch better agains the giants, Latos has personal hatred for the giants, the Giants have owned the Dodgers this year- this move for the dodgers is to win the division. Morse on the other hand- he is a Giants lover, his best friend is Hunter Pence, feel real bad for Mr. Morse, perhaps they simply release him or eat the salary and hopefully trade for a mid level prospect
Yeah that Grand Slam he allowed to Buster Posey in Game 5 of the 2012 NLDS was awesome.
What’s the reason for acquiring Morse in the deal?
The Marlins want to shed that salary.
probably another trade is in the works… morse is essentially SVS…gotta believe LAD has another move or two in them…
Maybe Morse (and change) to Rangers for Gallardo?
Makes no sense for the Rangers. If I am them I would be asking for prospects for Yovani. Morse does them no good at this point.
The Rangers would absolutely turn that down.
Flip Latos plus others to the Tigers for Price
Why would the Tigers want Latos instead of Price?
This makes no sense at all. If they sell Price they need prospects not a lesser pitcher that will be a rental as well.
No but Morse, that comp pick and prospects for Price sure works, with Detroit flipping Cespedes for whatever they can get – because he cant get a QO and Detroit gets nothing back for him.
Comp pick can’t be traded. Only by the team it was originally awarded to.
Opps, sorry all. Thought he had 2 more years. Disregard my stupid post!!
Morse will be flipped almost for certain.
I don’t know that he does. Why would the Marlins send him to the Dodgers if there is interest elsewhere in him? They could have just traded him themselves.
Bird in the hand…the Marlins want to shed salary and they were able to get it done in one deal instead of two. This time of year it is very fluid for trade talks so sometimes a team will take a pretty good option instead of trying to hold out for the best offer. It’s Morse…not Stanton, so I’m not sure what else they would expect to squeeze from a team.
morse will be dfa because no one wants him. they most likely took his salary to buy the comp balance pick. they will try and trade him by eating all his money, maybe the angels. but that most likely wont work and he will be dfa.
Bench bat if they decide to move Puig.
Not sure anyone will want him. More likely either a SVS or Ethier deal for another back end arm, or Puig in a deal for a front line starter
Morse has a .592 OPS. I don’t know how many teams would want him if he made the minimum. And he’s owed $11 million.
Whoa – Morse is no SVS. Using the eye test, SVS is definitely a competent 1B and OF. Morse is a DH. He’s also much more athletic on the bases. If this is meant to replace SVS, it’s a fail. I doubt Morse stays with the team very long, unless he ends up a PH to take Alex Guerrero’s spot on the team when he is traded.
It could be a salary dump. The more salary LA takes on, the lower the prospect cost, I’m guessing.
Edit: Definitely a salary dump. Morse is making 7m this year, and 8m next year.
The Dodgers are getting a competitive balance pick too. So basically by taking on Morse’s salary, the Dodgers bought another prospect. He is a useful player for them, but not exactly necessary. This probably makes another piece more moveable, whether that’d be Van Slyke, Crawford, Puig, etc., if they so choose.
Lower the prospect cost by taking on salary, and getting that draft pick. So the Dodgers essentially buy another draft pick. A trend of Friedman’s now that he has the money to do so.
Side note: Draft pick trading would make the MLB draft more exciting, but if these deals are any indication of whats to come. Then the cash rich teams will just continue to buy these picks by taking bad contracts and increase their bonus pools.
to sign another ex-giant who they get no value from
I’m sad that Morse is going to LA. He was a fan favorite in SF.
If the Dodgers play him he still might be.
Wow, that’s harsh, funny, but harsh
Adding yet another headcase to the mix..he’s got talent but man he always leaves a place with a bad taste in their mouths.
Well it looks lijke the Dodgers are going for two 2nd tier arms instead of one (ACE).Could a cashner or leake be next?..Sorry RAJ,things are looking more grim for you.
I bet the Dodgers are still in on Hamels.
Agreed. They aren’t afraid to take on $ and they have the prospects. LAD would be a monster w. him as their #3! Grienke is definitely walking after this year, so solidifying a #2 is also of benefit.
Could the Dodgers flip Morse to the Rangers for Gallardo? rangers need a RH bat.
Yeah but they aren’t trying to buy this season. I doubt they would want to take on that salary now when they could evaluate the market in the off-season.
Might make sense if LA eats all of this year’s salary, but you’re probably right
The Rangers need pitching. If they want to compete this year, that trade makes no sense. If they aren’t trying to compete this year, that trade makes no sense.
Not really interested in the Dodgers prospects outside of Urias and Seager
No team is going to give up a top-10 prospect for Hamels, though. So Phillies fans should lower their expectations w/ the return in a potential deal.
I’m pretty sure almost every team would give up one of their top 10 prospects for Hamels. Hamels is a top 15 pitcher in baseball on a contract that is reasonable these days
Top ten in baseball, not top ten on your team.
While you are correct, it’s still what will probably be his declining years. If he continues to be that top 10 pitcher for the majority of his remaining contract he would be in the minority if history of pitchers in their 30s is any indication.
Not one of the team’s top 10 prospects. Top 10 prospects in all of baseball in the case of Urias and Seager. That is how good they are. So Phillies stop dreaming. Not going to happen. I think the Dodgers should pass on Hamels.
Where did I say I am expecting a top 10 prospect? I basically said the opposite.
Then do not expect to trade Hamels. It’s fine, I’m sure he’ll love being the ace of a last place team for the next 3 years.
Seriously though, De Leon was the 20th best prospect in baseball according to BA’s last list. A level prospect. If the Phils could get him + other guys, they should be thrilled.
.
baseballamerica.com/minors/midseason-top-50-injury…
heres last years midseason top 50. note javy baez at 7 and alcantara at 33.
What a difference a yr made for some of those guys.
The Phils are 9-1 in their last 10 and *still* 25 games under .500….ouch.
That was weak. He’s a mental head case. Mike Leake and Marlon Byrd would have been a better choice.
Prediction: Latos and Puig go head to head at least once.
Much smarter to get Latos right now than Hamels. Dodgers needed a guy to slot behind two aces – not necessarily a 3rd ace. If/when Greinke leaves this winter, they’ll have the money to go after Price, Cueto or Zimmerman. Good call to keep the top prospects…
Dodgers are stocking up on draft picks…
Friedman using cash to buy prospects…With no way of signing IFA of significance, he is working the system to his advantage. He will trade his IFA bonus pool again next season
It will be interesting to see if the Dodgers will still be in play for Hamels. If they are looking for a long-term replacement for Grienke, then going for Hamels makes more sense.
Now I’d like to see the Pirates get Scott Van Slyke. RH bat that can play 1B or RF, career .903 OPS vs LHP
Trade Charlie Morton for him and claim Joe Blanton.
I have no doubt the Morse pick-up was merely for the draft pick and now to flip him. Could see him partnered with someone and sent to Detroit for Price or Texas for Gallardo. Dodgers probably willing to eat his contract, and therefore make him much more appealing to the “sellers” in the market.
Yeah because what teams want is a sub .600 OPS. I am sure the Rangers and Tigers would decline his inclusion in any trade offer.
Why on earth would Texas or Detroit want Morse? He’s literally a salary dump. One man’s trash is probably still the next man’s trash.
Dodgers get the Giants most loved non-Giant in Morse and most hated non-Giant in Latos. This is an 80-grade troll job by LAD.
And after the Giants pass the Dodgers and win the NL West nobody will care anymore.
Will you be here when they don’t?
Giants don’t need to pass the Dodgers in the standings to prove who is more capable of winning it all…
What’s up with all the Morse is gonna get flipped for a pitcher comments? Morse was a throw in, in this trade. Pure Salary dump
No place for Morse on the roster unless they trade someone and that someone is likely to be Morse.
Because he can be flipped for a low level prospect with the Dodgers eating salary.Or maybe its insurance to a deal for moving out Puig for players.
Maybe so…I was more talking about the people who are saying he could be a main piece in a Gallardo or Price trade.
Morse has basicaly no value for them trades.He could back up Crawford, Either,Joc tho.Or be dfa as some has suggested.Its a pure salary dump for sure,but maybe there is a little fire to the Puig trade rumors.Puig would get a nice haul of prospects or traded for another sp.
True, he is more likely to be DFA’d soon. He was only included to get the Marlins draft pick. They will cut him soon after just like they did with Ryan Webb.
Not a lot of point of a DFA on a player who can refuse assignment. Still think he’s going to be bundled in another deal before the end of the week.
in all probability yes, but if Puig goes to Philly in a Hamels deal……
So Morse is an improvement over Puig?
It’ll be Funny for Padres and Reds to see Grandal catching Latos lmao
Up vote
Anyone think that rather than flip Morse LAD might just DFA him? Not sure Morse (who is one of my favorite players, he seems like such a nice guy) has a lot of trade value right now. I would think SF might pick him up if he were released because Sabean really believes in the “change of scenery” thing.
The Giants really have no space for him. He was useful in 2014, but would you trade 2015 Morse for Justin Maxwell? This year Maxwell is a better hitter and a vastly better defender.
it’ll be funny for SD and Reds to see Grandal catching Latos. Traded for eachother a while back
Perhaps the Dodgers are “in the works” with a trade involving some/one of their outfielders (most notably Yasiel Puig) to add a legitimate ace for the playoffs to put infront/middle/behind Greinke/Kershaw duo (ex; David Price, Cole Hamels)?
The Cardinals might make sense for Morse
For anyone that wonders why you can’t trade all draft picks, here you go. The Dodgers just bought a draft pick.
I just wish our GM JMO would wise up and realize all the contenders are making themselves even better while we stay put. We may have the best record in baseball right now but we are relying on a lot of what ifs. He needs to get a true impact bat at first like Votto no Lind.
it is kind of silly that the only draft picks that can be traded are ones given to teams for competitive balance purposes, and then the Marlins just give them away every year- they should stop receiving them.
Must be nice having unlimited funds. They are going to be unbelievable once they rid themselves of the poor contracts from past management, Brian Wilson, Crawford, etc.
Twitter world has the Dodgers, Yankees and Blue Jays in an all out prospect bidding war for Price.
Can hardly see the Dodgers and Yankees going head-to-head without being able to part with their top 2-3 prospects, unless the Phillies are more into a quantity over quality approach. The Jays are a very reckless team when it comes to large player deals and big name deals, so I can see them trading possibly Norris or Pompey along with some of their other remaining top prospects for Price or Hamels maybe along with a 3-5 or bullpen arm.
I think Dodgers are still in play for getting Hamels and they should. If they’re not, they will regret it again when Kershaw displays sub-par performance in playoffs.
Can’t complain with the move. His ERA in June was 3.86 and in July it has been 1.80. Good upticks in velocity, his K/BB ratio is solid since then, he’ll slot nicely in as our #3/4 with Anderson having reduced pressure to perform at a #3 level when we signed him to be our #4/5.
The draft pick is not likely to rise. If anything it will fall. Yes there will be teams that lose draft picks by signing QO free agents, but there will also be offering teams gaining draft picks at the end of the first round. Those selections happen before the balance round. Since only certain teams that signs a QO guy can lose their first round pick, but every team that loses a QO guy gains a pick, logically there is zero chance for the 35th pick to get higher but a significant chance that it can lower by a few picks.
I don’t even care who we got. All I care about is that WE GOT RID OF MICHAEL MORSE!!!!!!!! I can’t believe it! Finally some actual good news for the Marlins
Do backflips you gave up a top 40 draft pick so your owner could save 10m
Obviously. ..but with all of the variables involved for this organization, I can do back flips whenever the **** I want
Well didn’t expect a trade like this. You see he dodgers name for top pitcher and then they’ go get latos. Not a bad trade tho
No word yet on the three pitching prospects? I hope they are better than the last three “prospects” that the Marlins got from the Dodgers for Ricky Nolasco. All three were released soon thereafter and the Marlins got a grand total of 4 innings out of them.
Wow…4 total innings.
I sure hope this is the first step in a multi-team trade. Am I the only Dodger fan who thinks this trade is not only a yawning lateral move but a risky clubhouse one at that?
Morse does nothing that SVS can’t do and costs way less, and Latos is not exactly a clubhouse chemistry guy. Getting a draft pick for the money was smart though. That’s one positive I can pull from this. Would rather have Gallardo and some extra bullpen. In fact, I’m surprised that’s not their priority but I guess that’s not how the game works. Gotta go for starting pitching first but the Dodgers bulllpen blows it every time I watch unless Howell is on the mound.
Getting starting pitching helps the bullpen. It moves Frias and/or Bolsinger to the pen.
Good point. Then Latos isn’t a bad pick if he can get along. I’m glad the updates show them trying to flip Morse. I just don’t see the value in that pick unless SVS is worse off from that accident than the press is letting on.
I’d be thrilled if they landed a Chapman or Kimbrel of some kind.
I always felt we’d get Latos
Does it seem like the Marlins trade their competitive balance lottery pick every year for little or no return? It is almost as if the Marlins have a draft spending budget and the extra pick pushes them out of their comfort zone in spending. It’s not just an extra pick, but extra slot money that can be used to sign picks, and potentially get a better prospect with signability concerns in a later round.
Stop thinking about being a good baseball organization. As a marlins fan, I know that isn’t how they’re thinking
Do you think either the Dodgers or Tigers would do a straight up Price for Puig swap?? Dodgers would be the favorites in the NL with Price.
I don’t know if I would want that, you would basically take out the only real right handed threat you had in the lineup and next year, you could be left with Price and Greinke not resigning.
No chance. Less than half a season for Price is not worth Puig (talent + youth + cheap contract) – despite what all the headline narrative riders want to believe.
Next up? Scott Van Slyke + a middling prospect to the Reds for Mike Leake.
that wouldnt be such a bad trade. since morse is pretty much another van slyke, that mean van slyke can be use in a trade since dodgers have no need for the what like 6 or 7 OF they have
I feel like the Dodgers may be trading Van Slyke, Alex Guerrero and others for another mid-tier SP option, like Mike Leake.
I wonder if adding De Leon and Zach Lee could get a David Price or Cole Hamels?
Those were my thoughts, a package of SVS, Guerrero and De Leon should get you something pretty good in return. I think more then enough for Price or Hammals.
As a giants fan, Latos is the perfect dodger fit. Total a$$hat with little respect for the game. The giants own him. When he was a padre and the giants hunted them down in the 2010 stretch, he was signing baseballs “I hate the giants” and being a total puss. Then Buster Posey wrecked him with that grand slam in the 2012 nlds. Giants are in his head.
Sadly, as perfect of a fit Latos is, hate to see Morse go the dodgers. Dude likes to have fun and play the game with little drama which is why he was a great Giant last year. The Dodgers don’t feed off chemistry and fun… just dollar signs. Gonna hate to see him put on that uniform even as a back up.
Wow your hate for the Dodgers is immense. Not sure why at the end of the day it is just baseball. Meh, I dislike the Giants for similar reasons but don’t get set off like this. Too each his/her own I suppose.
As a giants fan, you should jump up and down every time you see Morse in dodger blue
A 100% tribal opinion. Makes me proud to be a baseball fan. Not.
LOL @ Giants own him. Latos has a career 2.17 ERA vs the Giants, which actually might be high, considering they have a career OPS of .543. Yeah, they got 1 HR of him 3 years ago, I guess that changes everything.
It’s sort of been talked about, but Latos has been a lot better than his traditional numbers say. Also, he was really terrible against the Braves. Take out those 3-4 starts, and his numbers look A LOT better against everyone else
With the Morse addition I’m guessing that SVS, Guerrero and de Leon get moved in the Hamels deal with possibly a reliever coming back in that deal as well. I like Van Slyke a lot but I’m sure he holds some good value and he would do well in a hitter friendly park like Philli
They’ll use Morse in the role they are currently using Scott Van Slyke, and trade SVS to the Mets.
They could but I don’t see anyone on the Mets worth trading for unless it was Matz but he’s hurt. I wouldn’t want Colon.
lol…really? The Mets have a Top 5 farm system and your opinion is Matz or nothing? Good luck w that…
Because Morse is an improvement over Van Slyke?
well when morse is on he is a decent power hitter. van skyle is a good bench/platoon player may even be a decent starter but we may never know because he will never start for the dodgers. so maybe they got morse to keep him and trade van slkye like some been saying on here. which i wouldnt mind if it can get them a decent talent in return like the red pitcher leake
Morse is basically an older version of Van Slyke with fewer defensive skills, and he is having a terrible year besides. The Dodgers’ side of a deal including Van Slyke would have to be pretty awesome to accept that downgrade.
that is true he is a older version of van slyke, but to get a guy like latso you would think the marlins made us take morse. im not mad with the trade since latso pretty much pretty then the pitchers we been throwing out there
I don’t understand this trade for the Dodgers, I’m not sure they made an upgrade.
We’ll he a having a good July so his value was good at the moment and he been to the playoffs so it not a bad get
Seems like an upgrade over Lee, Beachy, Thomas, and the long parade of other rotation stopgaps the Dodgers have been forced to use all season. Get another one like Latos (or better) and Frias can return to the pen when ready, and we don’t have to worry about an implosion from Bollinger.
it better then nothing compare to recent trade deadline trades this one might be the best. sure he a hit or miss, hopefuly the dodgers can get the good latos
Are the pitching prospects the Marlins received so bad that they’re not even worth naming? Usually, we’d know who was going the other way by now.
Can’t really evaluate until we know who the prospects are. But man, why do the Marlins keep trading away draft picks?
A quote from history: follow the money.
Latos will fit in perfectly with the dodgers clubhouse along with Puig and Greinke
This deal is a huge blow to the Philies in their efforts to deal Cole Hamels.
LA was a very logical landing spot, and if nothing else, the concept that they might relent and give up Urias in a Hamels deal would clearly have kept the leverage on teams like the Rangers and Cubs.
If the Phillies keep puttering around, the Cubs and/or Rangers may get pitching from the Padres, leading the Phillies to pick up the broken pieces and try to deal with teams on Hamels’ no trade list.
What a fiasco…yet not really surprised
So you want the Phillies to settle for a weak package that will still be on the table in a couple of days, just to get it done quicker? Ok then.
If the rumors are to be believed, the Phillies will make a decision on Hamels based on the final offers they receive today. Getting Latos doesn’t change what the Dodgers need all that much. The Dodgers still have to be very interested in Hamels.
So let me get this right: Dodgers agree to take on Mike Morse’s salary in exchange for a draft pick and an assumedly lesser prospect return to the Marlins but only after they find someone to trade Morse to thereby gaining more value? These type of transactions are my least favorite in baseball. Comp picks are a waste and are basically being used to wipe away small market team’s contractual mistakes, while the rich teams strengthen their on-field product creating a greater likelihood of increased revenue. That is a vicious circle and a cluster…
The elephant in the room is the revenue model for MLB. It’s mainly about media dollars and is just basically broken.
Well, with the new information, I guess the deal is gonna fall through. Knew it was too good to be true that someone would actually take Morse
looks like morse wont be a dodger, hopefully they can find someone to take him or dodgers might not get latso
we want Latos..wait..Price is now on the market?! kidding, we don’t want Latos.
Mike Morse could be part of another trade involving a third team. Not sure who it is at this point. But I am assuming it has to be a team that needs a DH or 1B backup.
Now that Price is on the market, everything has changed. Could there be a way to bring both Price AND Hamels to LA? If he somehow manages to do it while still keeping Seager & Urias, Friedman could make himself a Dodger legend overnight.
that would be some crazy stuff if they could pull it off but i can see one of them coming but both that a long shot. i think price would be more likely then hamels since philly has some have high demands for him
We could potentially have the pieces to get it done if we included some of the guys on the big league roster, but I don’t really see it happening. Definitely unlikely, but man it would be an exciting deadline.
yea they can trade guys like van slkye,puig,Guerrero plus guys in the minors. puig and co to philly and guerrero and co to the tigers. leon to philly and homes to tigers. plus others i guess would work. but dodgers dont want to give up leon
Doubtful that can be done. It’s going to take at least one top-40 prospect for Price (plus another smaller piece or two), and at least one top-30 prospect for Hamels (plus two more good pieces). Given that De Leon is the only prospect outside Seager and Urias to fill this description, I can’t imagine how they’d get both deals done.
The dodgers have many other very valuable trade chips. Puig, Geurrero etc…
Yeah I don’t see it happening either, I was just spitballing. Kinda fun to think about though (at least as a Dodger fan it is)
This is the kind of thought process that is hilarious to me… So…. you want to upgrade your team, because you are close to winning it all or don’t believe your team is good enough to win without upgrades due to other teams moves… And you want to add two, not one, two ACEs, wihtout giving up your top prospects….. riiiiiiiiiiiiight. As is the Phillies and Tigers wouldn’t work together to drive up your price. Its nuts, this moneyball/prospect era is getting out of hand. Something has to change. You can’t trade maybes for proven commodities .. this is exactly how the housing bubble burst…
Hard to say who it is. I could easily see Latos having injury problems.
Latos would definitely be my guess.
What happened to the commenting system?
i was thinking the same thing
I think they changed it to get rid of downvotes, as some people were abusing the function/seemingly trolling for downvotes
i just dont like you cant edit a post. but yea i agree about the down votes
Was there any real reason downvotes mattered other than epeen?
You couldn’t sort by vote ranking or anything
Well, there were a few commenters that seemed like they were commenting just to rack up as many downvotes as possible (it happens all the time on other voting sites like Reddit). Eliminating votes would eliminate those meaningless posts. It probably won’t make much of a difference eleven months out of the year, but the deadline attracts a lot more unique visitors than normal, which sometimes has an adverse effect on the quality of the comment section. Wonder if they’ll bring the votes back next month or re-introduce the sorting aspect, it would be nice.
Also presumably to thread them again so you can see who the reply is for. Good change but it logged me out and I had a heck of a time getting back in. Imagine I am not the only one.
Some people really earned those down votes…. Scann I’m looking at you. And tac3 for the use of emojis. (Once you get past tac’s language choice, the youngin does make some decent points)
Come to think of it, I don’t think I saw too many comments that had a net of 5 up votes…
Wow…..some people are crazy. You actually think LA can get both price and Hamels without giving up at the very least, 1 if not both of your top two prospect please get real..
The Dodgers absolutely can get Hamels and Price without Seager or Urias. Jose De Leon and Hector Olivera are both top 25 prospects and Grant Holmes is a borderline top 50. Jose De Leon is more than enough to headline a potential Price trade and Olivera and Holmes are exactly the type of centerpieces a Hamels deal would take. I’m not saying the Dodgers should/will make these trades, but they definitely have the pieces necessary without beginning to dip into their immense MLB depth either.
The Dodgers absolutely can get Hamels and Price without Seager or Urias. Jose De Leon and Hector Olivera are both top 25 prospects and Grant Holmes is a borderline top 50. Jose De Leon is more than enough to headline a potential Price trade and Olivera and Holmes are exactly the type of centerpieces a Hamels deal would take. I’m not saying the Dodgers should/will make these trades, but they definitely have the pieces necessary without beginning to dip into their immense MLB depth either.
The Dodgers absolutely can get Hamels and Price without Seager or Urias. Jose De Leon and Hector Olivera are both top 25 prospects and Grant Holmes is a borderline top 50. Jose De Leon is more than enough to headline a potential Price trade and Olivera and Holmes are exactly the type of centerpieces a Hamels deal would take. I’m not saying the Dodgers should/will make these trades, but they definitely have the pieces necessary without beginning to dip into their immense MLB depth either.
Hang on Dan, I’ve got Dave on the other line..
On, please don’t tell me I have been spackling these 80 foot “Welcome Matt LAtos” posters all over downtown LA in 94 degree heat for nothing.
random though but how about puig and if dodgers cave in leon and co to philly for hamels and Guerrero and a guy like holmes and co to the tigers for price. i think those could be fair trades.
Talks have stalled as Dan Jennings trys to deal himself to the Dodgers for Don Mattingly
I think Mike Leak could be in Dodger Blue by tomorrow night
Is that an official Mike leak?
The exact tweet referenced the trade on hold due to “medicals”, not “medical concerns”.
Pretty important distinction, IMO, because review of medicals is standard in all trades. Not sure there are actual “concerns” at this point.
Just a prediction on Leak….did not read anything on it
Mets nearing big trade for hitter…..Please be Puig….I want Conforto and Zack Wheeler (tommy john) and a prospect….won’t help us this year, but will benefit very shortly
dodgers want talent that can help now, hint why they are trying to get guys like latos. if the mets dont have players that can help them now i dont think puig will be a met.
Either to right field…..Crawford and Scott Van Slyke platoon in left….payroll and position flexibility
Deal is going to happen Paperwork is what we are waiting for.
Marlins easily win this trade. It is not a dominating trade on the Dodger’s part by any means.
How can you say the Marlins easily win – when the only known part going back to them is a raw 23 year old struggling at A ball?
Unless you think it’s addition by subtraction – which is fine, Latos is just the kind of arm the Dodgers need.
Plus the bonus pick – easy pie.
well unless you want random prospects then that a win in your eyes. but dodgers actually win because they pretty much get latos for nothing .
braves need to stop helping their nl east rivals in trades
Agreed!
Both Johnson’s go back to Dodgers because no need for Gomes or Braves SP but would require more prospects from Dodgers. Maybe Prado or Hare. Also in it.
The suspense gives me the warm and fuzzies. Fizzing at the bung!
Maybe Teheran, that be pretty cool
well I was wrong
I CALL TEHERAN!! wooo yeah he’s struggled this year but he’s young talented and controllable. Maybe Morse and Guerrero to the Braves?
I really don’t see the Braves giving up on Teheran so early, but Guerrero at 3b would solve the future problems there.
I could do w/ out Morse though. No place to play him.
Johnson and Wood going to LA
So by my account;
Dodgers get Latos, Wood, Comp Pick, Morse
Marlins get prospects and salary relief
Braves get…what? MY guess is a couple decent prospects and the ability to rid themselves of Chris Johnson
So by my account;
Dodgers get Latos, Wood, Comp Pick, Morse
Marlins get prospects and salary relief
Braves get…what? MY guess is a couple decent prospects and the ability to rid themselves of Chris Johnson
So by my account;
Dodgers get Latos, Wood, Comp Pick, Morse
Marlins get prospects and salary relief
Braves get…what? MY guess is a couple decent prospects and the ability to rid themselves of Chris Johnson
Wood will be flipped to Detroit as part of a package for Price. He fits what Detroit wants.
The report is Jim Johnson, not Chris
Yeah I wouldn’t give him up if I were the Braves either tbh. I just remember the reports a month or two ago that they were willing to deal him. Oh well we know it’s wood now.
why would the braves give up a cost controlled pitcher in wood. since kershaw was scratched frime his start maybe its puig kershaw and saeger back to the bravess
Were you dropped on your head as a child????? Dodgers wouldn’t give up even one of those for wood. Please see a doctor, I’m genuinely concerned
Everyone who’s seen Wood throw more than a dozen pitches sees that he’s a shoulder injury waiting to happen. Sell high now!
Eh, the same could be said for a lot. Braves better be getting back a high prospect.
Pereza? Olivera? This is getting big. Really, really big.
If the Braves are giving up Peraza and Wood, you have to think Puig is heading to Atlanta.
Nope. haha
Braves better be getting some of value if they’re not moving C Johnson’s contract. Which I really don’t think is all that bad, but that’s my $.02
I would think given the Dodger’s rotation now and going forward they keep Wood (Controlled through 2019) and send of Peraza for Price or Hamels. Obviously wouldn’t be straight up
i want to keep Wood…..do not want to flip him…..especially for Price
Isn’t Kendrick a free agent after this year? I don’t understand trading Olivera just because he had nowhere to play.
There could be many reason to trade him. one turner has proven to be a solid 3rd baseman for cheap and Oliver’s if not starting would be paid a cramp ton to be a bench player.so there really no need for Oliver.
Kendrick is a free agent…..id rather re-sign kendrick…..same age as Olivera, Turner stays at 3rd…..kendrick is the teams most consistent and clutch player….same age as Olivera
Isn’t Olivera paid a crap ton?
olivera contract
6 years/$62.5M (2015-20), plus 2021 conditional option
signed by LA Dodgers as a free agent from Cuba 5/19/15
$28M signing bonus ($12M upon contract approval, $7.5M by 8/1/15, $8.5M by 12/31/15)
15:$2M, 16:$4M, 17:$6M, 18:$6.5M, 19:$7.5M, 20:$8.5M
In my eyes, Wood + others for Price looks like a done deal. Wood isn’t really an upgrade over Bolsinger, they have the money to resign Price, and the Tigers are looking for MLB-ready pitching – which is exactly what Wood is.
With the Dodgers tied with the Giants, there’s no way they’ll settle for just Wood and Latos, which won’t help them all that much in my opinion. Not with the Royals, Mets, and Astros all making major moves.
Wood has waaaaaaaaay more value than Price by himself. The fact that there are people alive who actually would trade 4 years of a cost controlled #2 starter for 2 months of an ace is shocking to me.
Have you seen the deals that have been going down?? One and a half years of Gomez got Wheeler+, two months of Cueto got Finnegan+, and even Zobrist got Manaea. Price has more value than any of those guys. And calling Wood a #2 starter is pushing it.
Plus, the Dodgers don’t seem to care too much about money or control. And Price is going to give them a way better chance of winning the World Series.
It’s laughable that Price has waaaay more value than Wood lol.
Let me just say this as Braves fan, this look like a horrible deal for a couple of reason.
Alex Wood is an ace in the making. Jose Peraza is the Braves number one prospect.
You also throw in two good pitchers. In return you are, getting Olivera who is 30 years old so he is not a young hitter. You are not getting any of the Dodgers top 3 prospect.
The biggest winner of this trade is the Dodgers and not even close.
I think as of right now, Peraza is not part of the deal. It just said he might be, but was never mentioned in any of the other updates.
I agree. If it’s just Olivera I will be very ashamed. Hopefully either Peraza isn’t involved or if he is we are getting either Puig or Pederson back. All of that isn’t worth Morse and Olivera. I know the Braves wanted Olivera earlier but they don’t need to give him a king’s ransom when he still has questions about the elbow.
they are getting a reliever back too, maybe pedro baez.
IF the Dodgers turn Wood into Price they’ll be a clear winner. Even without Price I still think they are the winners
Why on earth would the Dodgers turn a cost controlled young starter who’s pitched well in the Majors already, for a 2 month rental?
Dodgers are trying to win and Dodgers know kershaw playoff woes so they need as much help as they can get. Best on woods stats it hard to tell if he a better start or pen arm. But if it help get price without using our top guys it was a good trade on the Dodgers part without giving up anything of real value
have the dodgers seemed the list bit concerned about cost control in the last 2 years?
remember their previous owener. concerned flew out the window when he left
have you seen his delivery? already had tommy john and every start is closer to needing another.
I don’t think the Braves are getting back enough, but Alex Wood is far from an “ace in the making.” He was forced into a 2/3 role with the Braves because of the youth and inexperience. On a contender, he’s a #4 at best.
Is the obstacle Passan is referring to the one where the Braves realized they were getting fleeced? I’m a Braves fan and this trade infuriates me. Was Alex Gurrerero’s name inadvertently left off or something?!!?!?
“Sherman says that he will in fact be in the swap “. Sorry to break it to you braves fans.
I guess you’re getting a guy who better fits the mold of being rebuilt for the new stadium. Peraza’s carrying tool is his speed and those kind of players don’t always transition easily to the majors. Olivera is more of a proven run producer (because of his numbers in Cuba)
Braves get Paco Rodriguez not Baez
What a random trade. I like the trade on the Dodgers part. Two good pitchers if they keep both and a good setup/ closer. Dodgers don’t get hamels but still improve.best trades they done in a while
Dodgers are getting like a million players I hope they make it clear who getting who soon. From what I see the Dodgers are getting like 4 players. It making me love the new front office. If Ned was still the GM who sure wouldn’t see trades like this. The best we would get is a random 4th/5th pitcher with a high ERA
As much as I like to hate on Ned, don’t forget he brought us both Manny and Hanley Ramirez for nothing.
So ESPN made it more clear so pretty much the Dodgers win this trade. The Dodgers improve without giving up anything with any real value. I don’t know what to say but I love how they got a solid closer/setup man. it going to be a fun rest of the season.
I was on board with all the other trades Hart and crew have made, but this one makes no sense!
Given that price and cespedes are both rentals…. Peraza, De Leon and Anderson for the two above? They get to keep the controllable Alex wood and get two huge additions. Tigers get 2 top prospects and a former first rounder. Would create a roster crunch but SVS has options
From what I heard I believe woods will be traded and Dodgers might add a guy like Holmes who the Tigers wanted to draft.
I’ve read that a couple of times too but i don’t see why you would trade a cheap, talented starter, with another 4 yrs of control (2015 numbers are down some but was definitely a no.2 type last year). When they could move Peraza (given that Kendrick could resign and Darnell Sweeney is a legit 2B prospect in his own right), as well as some other prospects. Detroit might ask for Holmes rather than Anderson which you could swallow. Which would make your rotation down the stretch Kershaw, Grienke, Price, Wood, Latos. With an OF of Cespedes, Pederson, Puig. Whilst only giving up one of their top prospects (De Leon).
Pederson CF
Puig RF
Kendrick 2B
Gonzalez 1B
Cespedes LF
Grandal C
Turner 3B
Rollins SS
Pitcher’s Spot
SP: Kershaw Grienke Price Wood Latos
Just let that sink in.
I think Tigers will be asking for woods since Seager,Urias and Leon are pretty much off limits so if tigers like woods and Holmes I’m pretty sure they might be a part of a trade if one happen
Dodgers want to win and with kershaw playoff woes they need anything they can get to help. Woods would be a nice young pitcher to keep but I have a feeling they want a more proven vet. Since they have young pitching in the wings in the minors
Agreed but I’m saying you could have both.
If the Dodgers won’t give up 3 of thier top players there going to have to give up something for the Tigers to bite so pretty much woods will be the best they have who isn’t name Seager,Urias and Leon. In a perfect world we get both but in the real world I have a feeling woods would be in a price trade
They would part with De Leon for Price
Really so they would give up Leon for a rental instead of for a guy who would be with the team longer. i dint see that happening if it did I’ll be shock. But I just have a feeling woods is gone of the Dodgers want price. They traded for woods for a reason. Either to keep him or mostly likely trade him. Just look what they did when they got that talent lefty from the marlins not hey traded him right away to the Angels. So woods isn’t a safe bet to stay a dodger
First, it’s “Wood”, not “Woods”.
Second, the Dodger would most certainly give him or Jose De Leon (who is “Leon”?) for David Price.
My guess is that they traded for Wood because the guy can really pitch. 2014 – 2.78 ERA, 3.39 FIP, 8.9 K/9, 2.3 BB/9, 11 W. And he has 4(!!!!!) years of control and already has big league success. De Leon has what 6? yrs of control once called up and could totally flop. Both are potential top end starters. One already is one. If you don’t want to trade De Leon then trade Peraza, he would get it done too
Well we will see what happen but they made this trade for a reason and only the Dodgers know. Just don’t be surprise if wood is traded for price. All I’m saying is Dodgers front office will do anything to improve if that means they don’t have to give up their own good prospects. Angels trade is a good example
If hey wouldn’t give up Leon for hamels who not a rental they won’t for price. I’m feeling is they traded for woods for a price trade if one happen
Last I checked we have no idea what they offered for Hamels…. Or if they made an offer at all so they very well may have been willing to trade him for Hamels
everything that has been said it pretty clear that Leon off limits. If they made a offer or not they basically made it clear Leon was off limits. People wouldn’t lie about that they would make them look bad
Nooooo, they said they would be reluctant to part with him. But with Wood, Kershaw, Ryu, Mccarthy already locked up for the next few years and Urias and Holmes (and possibly Alvarez) ahead of him how on earth does he get to the big leagues with LA? He’s a good prospect no doubt, but with that much quality pitching in front of him he’s expendable.
Well he might be expendable but Dodgers seem to like him and I’m just saying don’t be surprised if woods is gone. Dodgers would do anything to improve without trading thier good prospect. The angel trade is a good example of that
That Angels trade you keep mentioning sent Heaney (a LHP prospect) for Kendrick, a veteran who like price is FA at the end of the year. So don’t tell me they won’t trade a prospect for a rental
They traded a prospect but it wasn’t thier own. So who to say they wont do the same for price.they trade prospects that they trade for and maybe add there own like a guy like Holmes,
I’m not saying they won’t trade a prospect but it might ot be their own guys like Leon,Seager or Urias. If they trade a good prospect of thier own it could be a guy like Holmes who the Tigers seem to like
Ok so trade Peraza. He’s a top 100 prospect and not their own either.
Well maybe he will be added to a offer if the hamels trade show anything he Dodgers will have to give up a few players at least 3
Hamels as another 4 years of control so you cant compare them. If you want to compare trades you have to look at the Cueto or Kazmir seems they were rentals like Price. But yes more than one piece would have to go back to the Tigers. Hence my original post of Peraza, De Leon and Holmes or Anderson for Price and Cespedes
Without trading a starter Dodgers have no need for cespedes. It just make a log jam that they don’t need. Plus they still have morse till he traded no need for another OF. Plus either way the Dodgers got the young prospects for a reason either have more talent for the future or just added fuel for a trade and I just have a feeling the brave players could be added for a trade. either way I wouldn’t be mad if Leon traded I just saying people are making it sound like he off limit so the Braves trade makes it look like they added prospect for maybe a future trade
Agree that it would create a log jam but its a good one to have. Morse is either going to be traded or DFA’d. Option Scott Van Slyke and suddenly there’s no logjam and you have the best OF in the game and the top rotation
They gave up the only real thing of value, money! But in all seriousness oliverias bat is legit, glove sucks though but if you are a believer in him hes on a great contract. Rodriguez is valuable but out for the year essentially. Braves have a ton of arms that its no biggie to trade one. Pereza was a surprise. They might believe in maybin or snag a colby rasmus in the offseason. I like it most for those two teams. The marlins are just so damn cheap.
Legit bat but over 30!!
Oliver a unproven bat who would be fighting for mins with turner who earn his playing time.dodgers don’t need a 60mill bench player
well they paid him 30 mil to play for the braves…
he is 30. dont see the point? hes ready right now.
Here’s just another example of why the best move made last offseason was the Dodgers’ hiring Andrew Friedman as president. This is coming from a increasingly depressed Padres fan.
I feel sorry for you. In like 6 mnths he’s fleeced both the Pads and the Braves if this goes through
If it was Puig and not Olivera I might be on board but that’s still a stretch. Dodgers burned the Braves on this one.
You are absolutely nuts if you would prefer to offload Puig over Olivera. Puig is a 5 WAR player who’s only knock is some narrative-driven headlines from beat writers. Olivera hasn’t touched the majors, is over half a decade older than Puig, and has no position on the Dodgers.
May want to read his comment again.
That was directed at buckles.
I’m a Braves fan. I am saying that Puig is way better and that the Braves got burned on this one.
Noted – apologies.
There have been so many people on here desperate to get rid of Puig for a bag of balls, I’m starting to lose my equilibrium.
Either that, or these trades are doing it.
Still, buckles – at least you’re not a Marlins fan.
Braves fan too, I just don’t understand all of this for a guy over 30. If it was a 24 year old Puig, I’m on board. Just seems like we’re getting jipped.
Wow, Dodgers. Just wow. Gave up nothing of real value and picked up a heap of talent – in key areas.
With this trade it help themgive a good offer for price. Rumors have it tigers like Holmes and wood.so this trade give him a pretty good shot at price
Wow, wow, wow indeed. I can’t believe the acumen of Friedman, Zaidi and co. It just feels like so incredible to have these guys after so many years of old-fashioned, mediocre GMs.
When I first saw the deal reported (before the Braves piece was publicized and before the identity of the prospects LAD was giving up was known), I was mildly disappointed (and worried about what prospects). I apparently still haven’t overcome my Pavlovian instinct to wince from years of giving up quality prospects for mediocre rentals (though incredibly, in my mind, nearly all of the “highly-rated” prospects that Colletti dumped never panned out – Santana (still hurts!) and Jackson being the only two who did off the top of my head).
I needn’t have worried. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this deal for the Dogs. I realize that the seemingly unlimited financial power of the org makes it infinitely easier to “win” a trade, they are being smart and innovative in using that financial clout to their advantage.
Responding to the speculation about the Tigers – Wood and Holmes seems like an awful lot for 2 months of DP. Then again 1988 was a long time ago.
GO DOGS!
You kind of undermine your own argument about Colletti. The core of the team on the field today is still made up of players he signed, or even more importantly, declined to trade. As you admit, how many important players did he actually lose? For all the complaints about all of his supposedly bad trades, they can be counted on two fingers at most. I like this trade so far but I’m not convinced yet that the Friedzidi walk on water. They’ve already disposed of at least one very useful player in Gordon and the Kemp deal could also come back to haunt us one day. Bring us a championship, then we’ll take about the Friedzidi miracle.
It seems to me that the Braves return is very light even without including Peraza. Getting an expensive infielder on the wrong side of 30 and a decent reliever simply shouldn’t cost that much. I wouldn’t even think to propose something so lopsided, but I guess that’s why Friedman gets the big bucks.
It’s hard to imagine how Hart pulls off a series of solid moves and then thinks this will help the team…
Agree 100%
You have to think the Mets would have traded something decent for Peraza alone.
I’d be fully onboard w/ it if Hart could get the Dodgers to pick up CJohnsons contract.
I can’t believe this is right. Why would the Braves trade Wood, Johnson, and Peraza for Olivera and a draft pick? Where is the upside there? I’m used to seeing the Marlins give players away so that part is more disappointing than surprising. But I think John Hart knows better.
yes, not a braves fan but have been jealous of his moves up to this point. They must really love Olivera but i see a guy who just hasnt played that much and real doubts he can stay on the field. realize there are concerns about Wood long term, but doesnt quite make sense to me.
I guess they just can’t get over their love-affair w/ Olivera. I get Wood has the potential to have injury problems, but so does everyone. IMO, I would have kept Wood. Not sure we really have a LHP to replace him with.
Oh, injury prone Mike Minor! forgot about him :/
I just think the Braves are giving up A LOT for less than a little. I’m sure Olivera has potential, but that’s all it is at this point.
they’ve got wood for olivera, so they got olivera for wood.
The Dodgers are going for it this year, Alex Wood is a poor mans Chris Sale, but will be a good #3 or 4 in that rotation behind Greinke and Kershaw. John Hart has done a great job this year but showed his hand with Olivera. Hart obviously wanted this guy badddd and gave up Wood and Peraza for him, pretty steep but he must love Simmons and Peterson long term. In the end I think the player with the most impact in this trade will be Wood.
The Dodgers financial resources are unsurpassed, and they leverage them to the hilt. It’s interesting they don’t draw nearly the “Evil Empire” heat the Yankees do.
IMO, I think they’re going down the Yankee route of trying to buy championships. Which we all know doesn’t work. Give it a few more years, and more people will catch on.
Every team is trying to buy a championship. The only difference between them is the amount of money they have to spend.
Not really. there’s a difference in using home grown talent year after year vs continually buying high priced players who don’t really work out.
Yes, really. Even “home grown” talent takes money to keep. Because a lot of teams aren’t willing or able to pay their salaries in arbitration, many teams of these teams are perpetually “rebuilding” by trading away everyone who gets expensive. Not much really works out for them. The baseball revenue model is broken. It gives a huge advantage to teams with big media markets. It’s always better to have money than not.
So the Marlins got nothing out of this except three minor leaguers and salary relief? At this moment in time, they got royally hosed. Time will tell, I guess.
yep, basically you gave up a draft pick and took mediocre prospects in order to dump a contract you gave just a season ago that you should have known was stupid when you signed it. i guess they saw Morse floating around the bases for the Giants in the playoffs and forgot what Morse really is.
You know you are a cheap team when you need to shed $14mil in salary over 2 seasons. Kinda pathetic
They also signed the largest single deal to a position player, so I’m missing your point.
My guess is Hart is not high on Peraza. That must be the case, when you think about he never got called up. I’m guessing Hart & co, think that they have enough pitching now that they can trade it for hitting??
He’s big on Ozhaino Albies, who has been rocketing through the system. Question: who was the only Braves rep in the Futures Game in Cincy? Albies has been compared to Simmons, but he can get on base a lot more and his speed is insane. Having a middle IF of Albies/Simmons would be insane. Combine that with Olivera and Freeman and you have a good IF, especially if Olivera can improve defensively. If he can’t then LF could be a possibility.
Great News fro New York on the scuttled deal last night! The Braves can make the same deal. Send a young pitcher recovering from TJ surgery (Mike Minor) and a budding shortstop/infielder (Daniel Castro) to the Brewers for Carlos Gomez. Throw in replacement MLB veterans in the deal (Jonny Gomes and Chris Johnson).
Why would the Braves want Carlos Gomez? They aren’t competing next year.
Why would the Brewers want Minor comings off shoulder(not TJ)?
That is an awful proposal.
I don’t get it, Braves. Trading your stop-gap closer and the Lefty setup guy, I can see. But your #1 minor league prospect and a solid middle of the rotation YOUNG lefty…for a 30 year old who has never batted in the majors and is on the DL, a lefty who is on the DL, a minor prospect with a 4.00+ ERA in the minors, and a late 1st round draft pick? Really??? And the Marlins didn’t get much either. Marlins & Braves lose in this deal. Big Dodger win.
This has LA and Detroit all over it. I can see the Dodgers flipping Peraza to the Tigers in a package for David Price.
Are the Dodgers going to keep Morse? They already have a 1B/OF in Scott Van Slyke.
The more I look at this trade the more it look like the Braves are getting ripoff.
You are not looking at it closely enough then. Peraza wasn’t ATL’s 2B of the future (Ozhaino Albies is). Wood is 24 and has lost 2 mph on his fastball down to 90 mph. He’s had 1 TJ surgery at UGA. With his mechanics, history and awkward arm mechanics, he is a huge risk for another surgery which would make him a bullpen arm. We’d get nothing from him similar to post-2nd TJ surgery Medlen/Beachy. Johnson was a rental and Avilan was inconsistent and is quickly getting expensive. We saved $30M (Olivera’s signing bonus), got a future RP star in Paco, a decent P prospect with a mid-90’s fastball (Bird) that was ranked as LAD’s #15 prospect, and the #34 overall pick in 2016 (MIA competitive balance pick). If Olivera’s physical checks out, we could be getting a MLB-ready 3B/LF that we have needed, who could be the next great Cuban import.
Dodger fan here: I honestly hope all those guys work out for you because I am super happy with the Dodgers take and I love it when rades work out for both teams.
A couple things though:
I think the fact that the Dogs are paying the next two payments of Olivera’s signing bonus says something about him. I have been following him since before he was even eligible. My take is he will be a cheap (for the Braves that is) useful piece, but not a star and certainly not “the next great Cuban import”. The word is basically that his bat is there but that he has looked really stiff and awkward on defense. Turns out we already have a Cuban like that on the team. But at that price (~$5mil a year, not factoring in the Arroyo salary that I just saw we are taking.
Paco is also not a future star. A solid reliever and a guy I really like, but I can count star relievers on one hand. He’s twenty four and he’s not getting any better than he was in the LA bullpen (which was very solid). If he stays healthy, he’ll be a good pickup for you guys though.
I don’t know Wood, but it seems like a lot of people around the league like him, but many have noted the violent delivery you mention. But is it really true that a second TJ automatically makes you a reliever? Obviously your boy Beachy is not looking too good so far (though he really rushed back). The only one I know from the dogs was Darren Dreifort, who was always a starter, but at some point became a very bad one (though I don’t remember if that period of badness resulted from the second TJ). Kuo also had two (or was it three?) but he was mostly a (completely badass) reliever from the start of his career.
Very excited about Peraza; glad to hear you have the position covered and are thus trading from a position of plenty (I don’t really know your system). I just wanted to laugh at the comment above that said something to the effect of, “obviously Peraza’s no good; he hasn’t even been called up!” Dude is 21. Ease up.
Peace.
No, 2 TJs don’t make you a reliever, but you have a talented and/or cost-controlled arm, it’s a greater risk to push them as a starter than as a RP. Three TJs and you’re making history. Venters went through that and I don’t think he’ll be coming back unfortunately. I can’t even imagine the emotional toll it takes on one.
LAD benefits from the change in the front office for ATL that liked others over him. Peraza is good, so much so we tried to move him into CF to utilize him, but with no power, decent OBP, good speed and good glovework, he should be useful somewhere. However, that is one of the few areas we might have covered.
I wish that we could have gotten Alex Guerrero also. That would have been nice. Nice thing I like about Olivera is that if his glove doesn’t work out at 3B, then he can slide into a corner OF spot, which we need more of. We have little depth in OF.
I’m just glad Peraza won’t block Ozhaino Albies at 2B. Can’t wait for him. I’m just impressed that somehow we also got LAD to take on the $9M we took on with Arroyo’s contract. So, factor in Touki Toussaint into this deal with that info. So we basically traded Phil Gosselin – a backup IF – for 2014 1st rd pick Touki Toussaint after LAD took on Arroyo’s contract. Wow! Hope LAD gets a lot out of Wood/Peraza.
Is there a reason you call the Dodgers the “dogs”?
MLB is now the new NBA – Melvin Upton, Jose Reyes, Matt Harrison and Bronson Arroyo (twice) have been included in deals as a salary relief mechanism over the last 7 months or so.
There will need to be a salary floor in MLB soon, because this situation with the small market teams collecting young assets, making an abbreviated run (with any luck) juxtaposed with the big market teams throwing money around in so many ways (international signings, sunken costs on other teams’ players and their own payrolls as well) – it’s really like the game is played on two planes depending on how deep-pocketed you are.
I just don’t understand this from the Braves perspective. I’ve liked every trade John Hart has made but this is a head scratcher. If you break it down, he basically sold the Braves best prospect in Peraza and Alex Wood to save 25 million dollars and a comp pick. Johnson and Avila for Paco Rodriquez and Bird is a wash. If they wanted Olivera so bad they could have just signed him this past offseason and still had Wood and Peraza.
The tried, but their offer was only $40m.
I also don’t get it. I don’t like it.
I love the deal. They saved $28M. And that’s big in the team’s current financial climate – money kicks in in 2017 with the new stadium’s opening – they don’t want to spend future money just yet. LAD was going to outbid everyone, like they do for international prospects, so whatever ATL bid, LAD was going to trump it by a lot. Their budget is easily twice what ATL’s is. Johnson/Avilan are on their way out, while Paco/Bird could be solid pieces with mid-90’s heat for both. The #34 overall comp pick is nothing to sneeze at. And we could be getting the solid bat we’ve needed.
I forgot about that comp pick. That is a HUGE piece with the value of prospects these days and next year’s draft is supposed to be very deep; no huge Strasbourg types at the top, but a ton of talent.
I would have loved it if we could have held on to that pick.
Paco with mid-90’s heat? He has averaged less than 90 with his fastball for his career (89.2) – and it’s severely declining.
He’s an offspeed guy – threw 30% fastballs this year and that was the second highest rate of his career.
He’s not going to become a mid-90’s lefty.
Sorry, I was getting him and Chris Withrow mixed up – who we previously obtained in a different deal.
The prize for Atlanta is Olivera, at a big markdown. Worth it? We will know when we see him play.
The Braves should receive either Puig or one of the Dodgers top 3 prospect back for Wood and Peraza. You don’t trade your number 2 starters and your number one prospect and in return you get a 30 years old hitter who cannot stay healthy.
Apparently, if you are the Braves, you most certainly do.
But they got Olivera at 1/2 price this way and you need to trust that they know their own players and that there are reasons to part with Peraza and Wood which others have articulated here. A sandwich pick and the financial discount on Olivera/Arroyo is a fair deal for the Braves…you really should throw Toussaint into the evaluation since the Dodgers just ate the downside of that (Arroyo).
I think the Marlins are the ones who came out on the short end, since it cost them the sandwich pick and Latos just to reshuffle the deck chairs with insignificant prospects and modest salary relief. Obviously when you intend to go for it and keep changing your mind (second time in what – 3 years?) like the Marlins do, you get hosed coming and going.
As a Braves fan I’m content. Would I have liked to have kept Peraza? Sure, but what will push this deal into the Braves favor will be who the Braves get via the new Comp Pick. Olivera will not disappoint and hes only 30 people are reacting as if hes 50.
It be different if he was a young player but he a 30 year old unproven player
I just think the Braves are giving up A LOT for a chance at a 30 y/o rookie who MIGHT hit decent.
$$$ is the real value here. The Dodgers paid us $28 million to take the guy we, as Braves fans, were comfortable paying no more than what we NOW are paying, 32.5. We also receive a #35 comp pick + probably a top 15 pick for the draft next year + a decent reliever and a top 20 prospect from a good farm system. The Dodgers are also taking on Arroyo’s contract. For the loss of Woods, who is expendable, though i think if Minor hadn’t of gotten hurt he would have been first to go as he was closer to free agency, Peraza, and Jim Johnson. Peraza is expendable with Albies + the two top 40 picks the Braves have next year.
Give it a year to sink in.
As a Braves fan I’m hoping this deal falls through. I don’t wish any player to be injured but if Olivera’s medicals don’t come back clean and Hart says no, I’d be okay with that. I’d rather have Wood / Peraza.
Wood will have a 2nd TJ surgery – count on it. Peraza is not our future. His hitting isn’t coming along at AAA and has been displaced by Peterson with a better 2B prospect (Albies) right behind him. Albies currently ranks as #2 with Peraza as #1 in midseason prospect ranks. I prefer Albies. I like Wood, but he won’t be a starter long-term for us. His history and mechanics are troubling and his fastball sits at 90 MPH at just 24. That’s troubling.
Glad to see we’re on the same page as usual 😛
I like your spin on this but I’d still prefer to have Wood and Peraza than Olivera. If they had to trade those two I’d like to have seen them get someone else rather than a 30 year old injured minor leaguer.
I agree, I think they’re selling high on Wood. I just wish we were getting more value back.
I wrote about this trade this morning. Click my name to read it.
I’ve been following baseball for 45 years now and can’t remember a trade deadline like this one. I believe that it’s a sign of the game, social media, and the overall state of baseball today. I’m enjoying it, and think it’s awesome.
Another brilliant move by the Dodgers front office. Feels good to have the smartest guys in the room working for your team. Kinda sucks for braves fans.
and when Wood goes down in flames w/ TJ#2?
Beachy/Medlen 2.0
43.5M. A trained monkey could win a negotiation when you are able to drop 1/2 of some teams payroll on a single trade.
I think this trade is setting up something big in the braves offseason, David Price is going to be the top lefty. He grew up in braves country and even said he was a braves fan growing up. They still are going to need a power bat. Maybe they can throw together a package with Teheran and get something back.
Too soon junior, it’s not 2017 yet.
Well, we’ve unloaded a lot of bad contracts and if we were able to dump Chris Johnson for anything, we’d be sitting pretty. It’d be even more if they do go through with getting rid of Tehran meaning more cost savings, though he is affordable. The previous admin thought we needed an ace, and even with all the arms we are getting it would be hard to find an “ace” though I know we will have some quality arms to choose from. That being said, I don’t see an overpay, which is what Price/Greinke might be searching for, but both should be available: Price a FA, Greinke if he opts out. Price hails from TN (via Vandy) and fit in well in ATL, while Greinke is from Orlando and has been connected with ATL in year’s past. I can’t see our FO paying their market price, but I couldn’t see many of the trades down the pipeline. Wouldn’t be surprised.
As a Dodger fan, I love this deal! It fulfills our needs to make a run this year, and solidifies us for the future as well! As long as we keep Wood and Peraza, I’m a happy camper. Peraza could turn into another Jose Altuve type player (makes lots of contact for high AVG, low K% and BB%), with 40-50+ SB speed, solid defense, little to no power. Which would fit beautiful into our lineup looking down to 2017-2020 timeframe.
Curious to see the Dodgers fans thinking/mindset right now. Im not trolling so relax. With the tradedealine coming to a close, and all the major SP talent off the board, are you in favor of holding onto Seager and Urias still? Hamels or Price would have made a serious run for the title, its what wins, or aleast has the greatest impact in a postseason. Latos, is ehh in my book. The Dodgers window seems like its now. Kershaw and Grienke pitching pretty decently at the moment, but I’ve stated Kershaw power outage in the playoffs before.. So if the Dodgers dont win the WS this year, are you still glad you have your prospects? Or would you rather of taken a chamce for it all, like toronto? No team is has a window thats open forever, this is why I ask, plus I think the overvaluation of prospects is out of hand, vs proven mlb talent that you don’t have to wait to develop in the mist of your playoff run. Plug and play. I think the mindset will start to come back down from over valuing these prospects when teams are utimately in the same position in the near future as they are now… good to great teams that can’t get over the hump. If kershaw leaves, you have so so latos and urias. Whihch is the same as Kershaw and Grienke, as long as Urias pans out, those are big ifs imo. Time will tell. I think teams wiill be studying this example for some time to come. Good luck to the Dodgers, and the rest of the MLB in there WS runs. For me, especially the Jays, since they went for it, gotta respect it.
You will hear two schools of thought on this, both of them negative, and both (IMO) seriously flawed. The first is “you can’t buy a championship.” I think we all know how that one goes. It’s the argument against signing premium free agents, for all the familiar reasons. The reasoning behind this argument is :it doesn’t always work. So what always works in baseball? If your answer isn’t “nothing” then you are watching a different game than the one I’ve been watching.
The other school is prospects are overvalued and a team is better off going into “win now” mode every few years then shedding their core players and forgetting about even being competitive the rest of the time. Many teams rare forced to play it this way simply because they lack the resources to sign top free agents or even hang onto controllable players though arbitration.
The bottom line is, a rich team like the Dodgers can afford to play it both ways. They can use their cash to leverage trades and protect their top prospects at the same time. And if you don’t believe it, look at what they just did. The proof of whether this strategy can be successful won’t be whether it works all the time, it will be if it works often enough to make other teams want to try to duplicate it.
Very few teams have the resources to duplicate it.
The Phillies just shipped off Cole Hamels and $40 million to buy 3 prospects. They stink on the field (not only in mlb but in the minors as well), but are still relatively flush with cash off the field.
Toronto and KC are shedding some of the prospects they’ve been collecting while doing their best to pass the bad contracts (Reyes) along.
Every team needs to follow their own blueprint.
That’s a fair point, but I was directly answering the question of whether every team always has to make a hard choice between holding onto their top prospects or playing for today. The Dodgers are obviously trying to not prioritize one over the other, and they have the cash to at least attempt to make that happen. Not every team can do the exact same thing, but I can envision more teams having that goal and the means to do so as media revenue skyrockets. The Phillies are one team that could probably afford to duplicate that approach, and honestly if I was a Phillies fan I’d be pretty annoyed with my local ownership for allowing things the franchise to decline so badly when they have the revenue to do better.
well dodgers want to win now and in the future so holding onto guys like seager and uriras make that happen. if they start trading away prospects. they will end up being the yanks a older team with really no farm to fall back on. they are thinking smart. sure hamels and price would be nice but not if it hurt the future
I am with you on the overvaluation of prospects, but Seager and Urias are simply not “if’s”; they are “can’t misses”. Seager will 100% be a stud; any scout will tell you that. The only question is how long he can hang on to SS. Urias will also 100% be a stud unless he gets hurt. Read up on him if you don’t believe me. His velocity, secondary pitches and command/control are already awesome. He’s a no 3-4 starter in most rotations, RIGHT NOW, at age 18.
Of course we would have rather have had Hamels or Price rather than Latos. (BTW, Kershaw’s “blowups” in the playoffs are simply SSS.)
What you don’t understand about what the Dodgers are building right now is a behemoth that doesn’t have to worry about “windows” that teams with lesser budgets do. They are making a team whose window never will close. 100% that we resign Greinke when he opts out. He has been great, he loves it in LA, everyone in the clubhouse loves his goofy honestly, craziness and intelligence and no one can outbid us.
Yes 1988 was a long time ago and we all yearn for another title, but true Dodger fans that have been paying attention the new regime don’t sweat not winning the WS this year because you don’t need to panic when the team will be the favorite to make the WS for the next 10 years.
I would not trade Seager or Urias but I would trade the lower prospects who are still great to win now.
I like the moves the Dodgers made. Now, I think it goes without saying that Hamels and Price are better pitchers than Latos and Wood. However, do not forget that Latos has been highly underrated, and from 2010-2013 amassed a 15.8 WAR. By comparison over that same time span, Hamels produced a 18.6 WAR, and Price a 17.4 WAR. For the cost in terms of prospects we gave up for Latos (who appears to be back to his pre-2014 form over the last month+ now), as compared to the cost in prospects the Rangers and Blue Jays had to give up for their respective pitchers, I’d say the Dodgers were exceptionally shrewd.
The fact that we also got Alex Wood (all injury concerns aside from all the naysayers) who is really good in his own right at only 24 years old, and under team control for four more years, and also the Braves’ #1 prospect in Peraza, filling a hole at 2B for us for the future, is merely icing on the cake. Jim Johnson and Luis Avilan are both solid bullpen arms who effectively replace Tsao (DFA’d today) and Paco Rodriguez (talented, but oft-injured).
Honestly, despite my sadness we couldn’t net one of the big three (Cueto, Price, Hamels), I am thoroughly pleased with what we got:
-Two #3 profile pitchers to fill out the #4/5 spots in our rotation.
-Two solid relievers which should bring even more stability and veteran presence to what was a constantly shifting, albeit solid, bullpen.
-And another team’s #1 prospect who plays 2B, profiles like Dee Gordon, but with much better contact skills in the minors.
We did all that without giving up anyone within our top 15 (except Bird ranked at #15), and without being forced into taking a half-year rental. All in all, Freidman and Zaidi did an excellent job this deadline. And they may not be done yet. Though I hope they are, as I am very satisfied with our current haul.
Agreed. While I am not yet ready to worship at the shrine of Friedziti, I think they made the team better without sacrificing the future with some creative swapping and spending. I’m also sure they have the stats to back up their their choices of Latos and Wood. I definitely feel better about our rotation and pen today than I did yesterday. No more five-inning starts from Mike Bollsinger would be good thing.
I agree that Latos is eehhh, if you’re hoping for a #1, but as a #3 or #4 or #5…..he is a stud. He has a 2.92ERA since coming off DL(7 starts) with almost as many Ks as innings (45inn vs 43Ks) and a .92WHIP.
So the braves traded their closer their 2nd best pitcher and their top prospect for a cuban infielder who is already 30 years old and 0 at bats at the major league? wow great trade guys
Basically. Mark Bradley had a good write up about the trade. Some solid points. Main point being, Jose might not the Braves top prospect, in their mind.
Also points on Wood and his probability of fitting in in 2017 with all the young arms they have, and his probability of being injured again (a 2nd TJ).
Albies is the top prospect. He was in the Futures Game, not Peraza, if that’s any indication. Better defensively, better speed, better OBP, younger. And how can you hate a middle-infielder named Ozzie to pair as a double-play duo with Simba Simmons. An embarrassment of riches very soon.
You guys know Peraza, not me, but obviously being in the Futures Game means absolutely nothing. Zero. Less than zero. Baseball’s consensus current #1 prospect Seager wasn’t there, for just one example.
Keith Law says Peraza is a natural shortstop converted to 2nd base where his defense is 65-70. That is damn good; you sure the little man is better defensively.
I am not sure your top prospect can be a 5’8″ guy that weighs 150 and hasn’t shown he has doubles power, no matter how good (non-Andleton category) he is defensively. He may well end up better than Peraza, but at his age and stage of development, that is too difficult to say, which is why every publication I have read rates Peraza well above Albies at this point.
I know the Futures Game means little, but it’s one small example of how we were moving on from Peraza. He was crown jewel of Wren’s FO, not Hart/Coppy. Albies isn’t the popular choice, but he’s been flying up lists in a year and he’s still very young. Probably a year off. That’s not to say Peraza isn’t or could very incredible, but that just illustrates one of the few areas ATL actually had depth in positional players. I am partial on Albies only because I see he has more upside. And if you’re talking about physical size of middle infielders, please reference Jose Altuve, who still isn’t tall enough for most roller coasters. Albies, from what I’ve seen, actually uses his size to gain advantage with hitting and IF hits, not unlike Billy Hamilton – when he can get the bat on the ball.
As a Dodgers fan, frankly, I don’t get why the Braves did it. 30 year old unproven prospect isn’t exactly what the Braves need.
I dont think anyone does
Because Olivera was one of the most coveted of the recent wave of Cuban players. We may not have seen him show his stuff, but the teams did, which is why so many were going after him.
But wait, your team thought enough of Olivera, with less info, to commit $60M to him. ATL wanted him for $40M and were outbid, only to get him for about $30M approx., sticking LAD to pick up his signing bonus. Yes, we had to give up our top 2B prospect (Peraza) and Alex Wood, but look at the perspective. Wood has had 1 TJ surgery already (at UGA), has bad mechanics, and has lost 2 MPH on his fastball at 24. I don’t think he’s a long-term solution, while Peraza is good, but hasn’t been hitting well at AAA, and is displaced long-term by a better younger 2B prospect (Albies) and for the short-term, Jace Peterson, who is just a bridge. He wasn’t working out at CF. This also allows us to get a corner OF bat or 3B in Olivera, while clearing some space to allow Albies to further develop to take over in 2016-2017. Albies is currently #2 on the midseason regrades, now #1 since Peraza was #1. We traded some of our pitching, which we have ample of, and some MI for a hitter with a high upside that we control for the next 5+ years.
To be fair, yes, he’s lost 2 MPH off his fastball, but not from last year. He’s lost .5 MPH off his fastball from last year, according to Fangraphs. And perhaps more importantly, the reason that he had higher velocity in ’13 was because he was also relieving that year. He appeared in 31 games for the Braves, only 11 of which were starts. He was throwing harder as a reliever. I see where you’re coming from as far as the funky delivery, but he’s hardly the only big league pitcher with a less-than-conventional delivery, nor is he the only one that had TJ surgery in either high school or college. Yes, he has some risk, but I’d prefer to have 4 years of Wood than 5 years of Olivera. And Peraza.
I’ll just repost since no one will probably scroll through: $$$ is the real value here. The Dodgers paid us $28 million to take the guy we, as Braves fans, were comfortable paying no more than what we NOW are paying, 32.5. We also receive a #35 comp pick + probably a top 15 pick for the draft next year + a decent reliever and a top 20 prospect from a good farm system. The Dodgers are also taking on Arroyo’s contract. For the loss of Woods, who is expendable, though i think if Minor hadn’t of gotten hurt he would have been first to go as he was closer to free agency, Peraza, and Jim Johnson. Peraza is expendable with Albies + the two top 40 picks the Braves have next year.
Give it a year to sink in.
Correct. Braves lose on the talent. Win massively on the money. You can only justify this from he Braves perspective as a $$ move. Including the value of the comp pick (which I think is said to be something like $15 mil) and the Arroyo salary, in one deal, you saved the equivalent of the yearly payroll of a small market team.
Shipped out Arroyo’s contract as well. I really think all Braves moves need to be added together to make sense.
from what I’ve read …the Braves paid some of the remainder of Arroyo’s contract
That shows you the Braves have a lot of mediocrity in their system and they had to do something about it. The closer was signed on a one-year deal on the cheap, their #1 prospect would be #3-5 on most deeply stocked teams and their #2 pitcher is really about a #4 on a good team.
They do have some mediocrity… And they’re clearing it and cash. I believe they have a vision…just need to stick to it…the scouting dept is very good now….good baseball people
so i guess in order to pull off a trade like this they had to take morse and Bronson Arroyo. even though arroyo hasnt pitch in the majors this year
Braves turned Arroyo into Toussaint and Olivera. That doesn’t look splashy…but its smooth.
No… They also traded their top position prospect in Peraza, a 24 year old lefty sp with a career ERA around 3.00 in Wood and a few RPs
And they probably have logic to this all. I think Braves moves need to be viewed in the longer picture. It’s an organization with some solid baseball people again. I’m not going to praise or detract too many single trades…I think they’re, working on a philosophy
I still don’t see where the Braves win in this trade at all…. I think there has to be another team that would have given them better than a 30yr old Hitter that can’t field.
Both teams can “win” a trade if they get what they need out of it.
Dodger just keep on Buying players from other teams by taking on stupid/large contracts. There has to be some sort of CBA talks to fix this.
Why? Dodgers are not the first team to do this. Dont blame the buyers, blame the sellers. Marlins are known for trades like this . But thats what poor ownership will do to you
So the Braves won? Hart god bless you.
Last night I was upset about this trade. Looking into it more, it makes sense as a Braves fan. Peraza is not our top prospect. He’ll probably be a soild .265/.270 hitter in the mlb with a slightly higher OBP and low slugging. Wood will have another TJ, if not he’ll need to add another out pitch because his velocity is dropping. Jim Johnson is just a rental, Avilan is crashing and was expensive. Arryo was just wasted money.
Now we get a Olivera, he may not be “major league level” proven but he’s hitting like .348 over A-AAA. That isn’t bad, he’ll play some this year and we’ll have him basically his whole career and younger players in waiting. Paco is a great reliever and LH. Bird is a hard throwing righty, if he gets a little more control and lowers his era to around 2.5 by the time he’s 25. He’ll be a good bullpen piece. The draft pick is a wait and see.
All in all, not a bad trade but definitely doesn’t deserve the hate most fans are giving it.
Yeah, I read that due to Braves recent TJ issues, that they are trying to be more careful. And one thing they are looking at is odd throwing deliveries. Throw that together with Alex Wood, whom already has had TJ, and his velocity dropping at 24, i think thats why he was traded.
Yeah that would make sense. People dont understand that. Peraza is overrated, he won’t become the player they think he will be. He’ll bat like Simmons but have mediocre defense. Just more speed. Albines is the true thing.
Who are these people that think Peraza will bat like Simmons (.240-.260) when Simmons profiled like that in the minor leagues batting around .270-.300, with not a whole lot of speed, and Peraza has hit .335 last year at AA and .342 the year before a A+. Simmons by comparison hit .311 at A+ and .293 at AA. Throw in the fact that Peraza has much better speed, and you’ve got someone who will profile very much like Jose Altuve (who, by the way, wasn’t someone always particularly high on many prospect lists).
Dodgers are a laugh. Take the cheap on pitching and spend a zillion elsewhere. lol. Latos is horrible
You quite clearly haven’t followed Latos since his return.
This guy is trolling on all the posts where Latos is being brought up. Don’t bother.
AJC (Braves) did a good article on why they like the trade. They like getting Olivera cheap, dumping Arroyos contract, are not high on Peraza and feel like they are selling high on Wood.
The main good point, IMO, is top rated prospect, Peraza, was never called up. How often do you see a top prospect not getting called up to a rebuilding team?
When he just turned 21 and you already have a good player in his position? I am going to say “nearly always”. Rebuilding teams don’t bring up their best guys at 21 – that just starts their arbitration clock prematurely. They can get better in the minors and wait to start the clock when the team is ready to contend.
Of course there are some special cases where guys are so good they just can’t get any better in the minors and then the media and fans put pressure to bring the guy up earlier than management would like, but those dudes are few and far between.
Dont disagree. Main thing is Jace Peterson is batting .240 and there is holes on the team that Peraza could fill. He has been playing CF and could easily fill the hole in LF. Or playing Jace at 3B and having Pereaza at 2B.
And i think the Braves arent worried about arbitration clock as they had two SP make their MLB debut, Folty and Wisler.
Woah, you are right about Petersen; I didn’t look him up (and don’t follow the Braves), but had heard his name a few times as a guy who was, “filling in nicely.” Boy did I have that wrong. 83 OPS+ and only 0.3 WAR in 400 ABs. That not good.
didnt hart say he wasnt going to trade peraza after the yankees inquired. the braves could have gotten judge and servino from the yanks. Overall i think this is a bad trade for the braves. wood is already a proven starter and peraza is a good prospect. who knows if they can even sign the comp pick. paco for avilan prospect for johnson, wood for who knows because the return isnt there and peraza for hector olivera. they didnt get anything for aroyo except salary relief.
My guess was that Hart and company were not as high on Peraza as those before them. Arroyo isnt going to pitch this year so that is just clearing salary. I dont think the trade is as bad as most people on here, but i think this trade needs time to show its merit.
So you mean that we traded Phil Gosselin and obtained ARZ’s 1st rd pick from 2014: Touki Tossaint?? Unbelievable.
Wood is a ticking time bomb. His mechanics will lead him to another surgery or a loss of command in the coming years, and the Braves are stacked with starting pitching depth. They’re not winning this year or next year, so this move makes sense. Even a healthy Wood may not make the roster in 2017. If the Human Rally Killer Andrelton Simmons is their future at SS, they need to get creative with some production from 2B or 3B. This is a calculated risk, and it’s silly to say the Braves have “won” with this trade, but they haven’t “lost” either. Like most of Hart’s moves lately, this is a logical approach. I hope for them that it works out.
Always nice to have a doctor of sports medicine here to comment.
Didn’t the townsfolk cause an uprising and say the same about Chris Sale’s mechanics?
I’ll leave the bio-mechanical analysis to those who know about. Until then, pitch away Son.
Chris Sale didn’t have Tommy John surgery at 18. All of this is a roll of the dice, of course, but it’s the rare player who maintains consistency with wacky mechanics. Add in a loss of velocity, forearm soreness at the end of last season, and a Tommy John under his belt as a teenager, and Alex Wood isn’t the guy I’d turn to for the longterm. And the Braves are looking longterm here. The Dodgers need him the rotation tomorrow. If he gets hurt in 2016 or loses his command in 2017, they’ll worry about that later. But the Braves are all about 2017, and I think it’s a reasonable bet to believe Wood won’t be that big a deal by then, particularly compared against the other young talent the Braves have been stockpiling. Even if he does avoid injury, in 2 years, he may be the next Tommy Hanson or Jair Jurrjeans. Braves are selling high here, and it makes sense. Only time will tell on any of this, tho — Olivera may never start a game. Who knows. But when people get all up in arms about the Braves moving Wood, I think they’re being short-sighted.
According to the people who study such things, the frequency of TJ surgeries among younger players is increasing because of the amount of time they spend throwing at a young age a high velocities. Nothing I have read has ever attributing the injury to “mechanics.”
As a Braves fan this is a horrible trade. The player that the Braves are getting back is 30 years old hitter, he is not a home run hitter. And also he has hard time staying healthy. The Braves would have much better to trade Jim Johnson now and move Tehran in the off-season for an impact bat.
What the hell is the dodgers doin? We lost out on hamels now price!? We should give up seager to Seattle and get king felix! I’m sure they would love to have 2 seagers playing for seattle! Think about it LA!
Give Jack Z a call – he’d love to hear from you.
So give up a talented future SS/3rd no way. If the Dodgers wouldn’t give up wood.they won’t give up Seager.let just trade every prospect while we’re at it and become the yanks with no farm to far back I when everyone start to get older
By getting the Dodgers to pick up Arroyo the Braves are clearly the winner here.. They get Touissant for free, and Olivera at half price for Wood and Peraza.. Johnson for Paco clearly favors the Braves even if Paco is injured.. Hart should never have left a GM position.. He is clearly very talented at fleecing other teams.. Dodgers got exactly what they needed and only gave up money and minor leaguers (even though Olivera is mlb ready he is still in the minors).. But they still paid a hefty price while the Braves gave up a very good starter in Wood with all of the mlb ready prospects that Hart has picked up (Wisler especially) he won’t be missed as much as he would on another team.. Hart should win GM of the year hands down..
See, the Dodgers know what they are doing. Do you think they would give up Olivera so easy without seeing him play if they didn’t think he was going to be injury prone, or bad defensively. We don’t need another Alex Guerrero.
I think both teams did good. The Touissant deal was genius; loved that. But both did what you are supposed to do – trade from areas of strength. In the Dogs case, it helps to have more money than God (not that God necessarily has any money, but you know what I am saying)…
except the new comment to the story now indicates that the Braves are still paying almost the entirety of Arroyo’s salary
Wow, so now the Dodgers are only paying 500k of Arroyo’s salary? This trade keeps looking worse and worse for the Braves. As a fan, it really irks me.
What? LA is only paying $500k of Arroyo’s deal? I feel like that makes it a landslide victory for the Dodgers
Think this trade was unfair for both the Braves and Marlins. 4/3 players and Dodgers got 7. Seriously they gave up Wood, why not Minor? The Dodgers should have given up Puig and Olivera not to mention the players and they gave up. The Braves don’t have a solid closer at the this point. Even though the Braves have a starting RF in Markakis, they could’ve used Puig as a trade chip or Markakis to get a new LF or move Puig into CF or LF. I did believe Wood, Miller, Wiesler to be the next Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz. The Braves do have a good, solid young team, but give them sometime, they do have some kinks to workout.