11:22am: Nightengale cites the Yankees and Pirates as the two most aggressive teams on Quintana, via Twitter, even noting that there have been some discussions of a three-team arrangement of some kind (as has been rumored elsewhere of late). But it’s still far from clear whether there’s any real reason to believe there is anything approaching a serious negotiation at this stage. In fact, sources tell Joel Sherman of the New York Post (Twitter link) that the Yankees aren’t currently working on any deal to land Quintana and Robertson.
8:38am: As the Yankees and White Sox continue to explore trade arrangements involving highly valued southpaw Jose Quintana, the organizations have now also “expanded” their discussions to include Chicago closer David Robertson, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today (via Twitter). The Sox would keep part of the remaining $25MM left on Robertson’s contract in any agreement.
We’ve heard varying suggestions recently as to just how serious New York’s interest in Quintana really is. Certainly, there’s a need on paper for the Yanks, who might at least be somewhat more willing to part with some of their newly acquired farm depth to add a youthful, affordable, controllable starter such as Quintana.
The insertion of Robertson into the mix adds some intrigue, though it still isn’t apparent how likely the sides are to line up on a deal. It’s possible to imagine the 31-year-old righty making a return to New York, where he spent seven strong years, to form another three-headed bullpen monster with Aroldis Chapman and Dellin Betances. But wrapping Robertson into a deal could also set up a variety of other alternatives for the Yanks, who could conceivably go on to flip Robertson or even move Betances to offset the presumably lofty cost it would take to pry Quintana loose.
From the White Sox’ perspective, there’s still no urgent need to deal their best remaining rotation piece, or even to part ways with Robertson except to help facilitate an appealing return of talent. But after already sending out ace Chris Sale, along with quality outfielder Adam Eaton, there’s certainly an argument to be made that the organization ought to make every effort to cash in Quintana this winter rather than rolling the dice on his continued health and effectiveness.
If there’s something of a game of chicken ongoing between the South Siders and the Bronx Bombers, there are also plenty of other forces at play. The Pirates have reportedly pushed hard to land Quintana, and a pair of AL West rivals are still competitive, too. We heard recently that the Rangers have interest, and the Astros have already kicked around some potential packages for the 27-year-old lefty.
This would be a huge deal to see happen
Judge and Frazier better be in the deal. IMO
No thanks on Judge
Judge can stay in New York. Jubo no help with curve ball.
Someone please put a Jubo shrine in Aaron Judge’s locker asap!
Jobu
I just have to get this straight….it’s Jobu.
I was beaten by two of you…….It is bad to drink Jobu’s rum…..VERY Bad!!!!
Trade judge and keep Frazier
My bad on the misspelling, bush league.
Lol….i was laughing actually…didn’t mean to come off harsh.
Well Jobu is a Cleveland Indian sooo……….lol
You wouldn’t get Frazier or Mateo. Maybe Torres, but more likely Judge.
Then the Yankees aren’t getting Quintana. Frazier and Mateo would just be a starting point
Look at what the six got for Adam Eaton. If you think the sox are going to take anything less than two of those prospects you are a joke
Yanks already turned down severino Mateo Frazier last week. Rutherford, Mateo, severino, 2 other top 15-20 prospects should get the deal done. Quintana is not an ACE, he’s a great 2 in the rotation, maybe a 1 but just because your a 1 doesn’t mean your an ace, the word gets thrown around too often
Severino, Mateo, and Frazier was the rumored package for Quintana alone. Expanding the deal to include Robertson plus cash probably would mean that the White Sox would add Rutherford and perhaps another pitcher with a plus fastball like Acevedo or Tate.
lol at using “incarcerated bob” as a source of trade rumors. He was the only one reporting that Severino/Frazier rumor and he is an unqualified, unsourced idiot.
Yankee fans are going to be in for some serious sticker shock when they find out what the price is for top of the rotation starting pitching as they’ve basically only bought them in FA for the past 20 years.
It’s a man’s game when you are dealing for these guys, you are not getting out of the room with your shirt on. Especially with a cost controlled player where the other team doesn’t need to be dealing.
The Yankees are going nowhere this year but are on the right track, they should hold onto what they got this summer and just move forward.
Keep dreaming loser
Not happening…
I wouldn’t trade Frazier
Torrid next year number 1 and Frazier for both
if this goes down
Yankees will have to give up that hard hitting catcher to start with for sure..
Keep dreaming WAD
Lmao
If you’re a Yankees fan, be wary…the White Sox are taking an approach – firmly – that only benefits a trade partner if they’re ready to win now. 100% guarantee that Torres is a starting point in any deal, and Betances would also be an almost certain requirement if Robertson is in the deal. Considering the Sox moved Eaton and Cabrera is a FA after this season, I doubt the Sox move forward without Frazier in the deal either.
Betances is not goin anywhere. That’s for sure.
True that
Maybe not in this trade but he is a very tradable asset
Stfu you don’t know anything White Sox are 100% not getting Gleyber Torres or Betances
No Torres, no deal.
After seeing what Hahn did in the other trades, it’s Torres plus a bit more.
I agree…I think that somewhere between what you got for Sale and more than you got for Eaton is what the White Sox will not only expect, but they will receive from whomever eventually gets Q. The White Sox got a lot more for Eaton than what many fans feel the Yankees will have to give up for Q. Quintana is a top 10-15 starter for the past 4 years; he pitches from the left side and is under control for 4 years at less than 40 million which allows a team like the Yankees to keep an eye on FA and people like Bryce Harper. The Yankees getting Q does not mean the Yankees are thinking this is the year. They can make this move as a future move. If you consider what the Sox set the market at, I think they will focus on Torres and not Frazier; they will look to add Rutherford as the outfielder of choice, then Sheffield and Andujar + one more arm from lower in the rankings that has upside to eventually be a solid reliever at the pro level. That is a lot, but that is the market. for a cheap #1 starter and a late innings reliever in this terrible pitching market. If I was Hahn, I would demand Torres, Rutherford and Sheffield for just Quintana and that still would not quite reach what the Sox got for Eaton from the Nats. Then I would ask for Kaprelien or Andujar and see what happens. This is why I think the Yanks are asking for Robertson and money because they want another usable piece at a premium spot on their current roster. That is why if the White Sox pay some of the money for Robertson (say 10 million over 2 years) they will expect Torres, Rutherford, Sheffield, Andujar and Kaprelin, The Yankees could think that is too expensive, but don’t expect Hahn to be looking for anything less. He will get what he wants or keep Q til the deadline or even later.
White sox wouldn’t be asking for betances. Torres, judge, Frazier, amongst other position prospects would be the focal point in any deal. Not really sure what the Yankees are willing to part with.
Yankees haven’t really lost a deal in the last year and cashman has been smart with who he gives up so I’d expect something like judge Mateo Sheffield plus one other in the 10-15 range package they really like gleyber and Frazier will be a yankee this year
Yeah Nats over paid for Eaton… cost for pitching is steep
White Sox will not get both Torres and Frazier
I hope that the White Sox overplay their hand and teams look elsewhere.
Loving the Yankee fans stating they “won’t get” certain players bc Nationals fans and especially Red Sox fans said the day thing about certain guys…..bye Felicia
Same***
By overplaying their hand now they walk themselves into a potential auction situation at the deadline…which benefits them. They have no urgent pressure to deal Quintana….and they can get seek out a great deal.
Hard to overplay your hand when you have all of the leverage in negotiations. Sox absolutely do not have to deal Quintana unless they get their price.
They are getting multiple suitors involved and letting the bidding war handle itself. Quintana’s contract is an amazing value in today’s mlb.
And Yankees do not absolutely have to deal for Quintana lol
That’s correct.
Huh? Nationals didn’t part with Turner, who was the one guy everyone said they wouldn’t part with and everyone knew Dombrowski parts with prospects so Moncada surprised no rational fan.
Turner would have been part of a Sale trade and the Gnats wouldn’t give him up so they didn’t get Sale. The Sox didn’t ask for Turner in the Eaton trade, but they still got a lot back. More than Gnats fans said it would take.
Unless he gets hurt
So then a deal between Sox and Yanks doesn’t get done, Sox have plenty of teams that want Jose.
Yep that’s what I’m thinking.
You are silly. What would be the point in acquiring Robertson if they’re forced to give up Betances? The intent is to bolster the bullpen, not downgrade it. Quintana is good, but he isn’t so amazing that they would do that. Plus, Robertson is very expensive. If anything, he is included partly for the purpose of financial relief. From the WS perspective, they can save 25 million if the Yanks pay off his contract and then receive a bunch of good prospects to add to their rebuild. On the Yankees side, they get an additional reliever, a young controlled effective left-handed starter, but give up prospects. Only way they give up Betances for Robertson is maybe if they are looking for ways to somehow not include Gleyber Torres.
As it clearly states, the WS would eat some if not most of his salary
Lmao at this
If you’re a White Sox fan, beware, the Yankees started stockpiling before you. The trade isn’t happening, and it’s not because the “White Sox are hanging up the phone.”
Just because the prevailing theory is that Rizzo got fleeced for Eaton, no such thing will happen here.
All this “talk” will remain talk. Yankees will likely spin a Mateo package for a lower rung starter that can give 160-90 innings.
Yankees should keep all of their prospects and let this play out. Neither Quintana nor Robertson are Sale. They finally have a surplus of blue-chippers. Let it play out.
It’s amazing. Every time a team has a fire sale, it drives up the value of all conceivable players that could be traded.
Sox hold out for the rental Cubs gave up no trade without Glebert Torres
Please don’t trade for him cashman. For the amount of prospects to get Jose Q, you could have gone after sale.
With what the the Red Sox paid for Sale, the yanks wouldn’t have come close to that package. Unless they wanted to completely deplete the entire farm
Another clueless turd on this App
Must be commenters with handles that start with the letter D
I think they could still certainly compete for a Wild Card, but the AL East is Boston’s to lose since they’re the reigning champs and clearly are the best team on paper (and I and I’m sure everyone is aware games aren’t won on paper)
FWIW, back in November, FanGraphs projected the Yankees at 85 wins (rounded up from 84.8 in this article attached) and the 2nd Wild Card.
fangraphs.com/blogs/here-are-your-expected-2017-st…
Good point . White Sox have gotten hauls for sale and eaton. Sox won’t trade with Cubs but sale and Quintana could both be traded within American League
Please no this would still not be enough to make the Yankees a serious ws contender
Not in 17 but he is under contract for 4 years.
I think if they trade for Q/Robertson and add Hamels they could compete quite well this year. Big 1-3 in the rotation, monster bullpen, and if the kids can slug like they have in the past they would make a strong post season threat.
The Pirates would be foolish to trade Bell, Meadows or Glasnow in a Quintana deal. Quintana isn’t a dominating ace like Sale is, he’s more of a steady innings eater.
Innings eater? 2014-4.8 WAR 2015: 5.2 WAR 2016: 4.8 WAR
Chris Sale: 2014: 5.2 2015: 6.2 2016: 5.2
Over the last 3 seasons, only 7 pitchers have amassed more WAR than Jose Quintana.
WAR? Please. The Red Sox had their choice of Sale or Quintana and wisely chose the more dominant Sale.
And…? WAR said Chris Sale was better… Nobody is arguing that Quintana is a better pitcher than Sale… He is, however, significantly better than an “innings eater.”
One of the inventors of WAR works for the Red Sox. A guy by the name of Bill James who I’m sure you know, whether you like WAR/sabermetrics or not.
I know Sale is better.. but calling Quintana an innings eater is ridiculous.
I think theres a reasonable percentage that says Quintana has a better next 4 years than Sale. Time will tell if Sale holds up at Cy Young ability.
Yeah, just because they could have had Sale or Qunitana and chose Sale does not mean Quintana is not also really good. Everyone agrees Sale is better,
Quintana in 2016 AL was top 10 in WAR (4th), ERA (7th), WHIP (8th), BB per 9 IP (9th), IP (6th), FIP (7th). How can someone not realize how damn good he is?!?!
Yeah….I keep seeing people bandy that inning eater thing around. An innings eater is Edinson Volquez.
Quintana might not be as good as Sale, but he would immediately be the number 1 starter for the Yankees though.
I’d have chosen Sale, too. They paid a fortune for him. That doesn’t discount Quintana’s accomplishments and abilities. He becomes the Pirate ace instantly. Most would say that belongs to Cole, which I’d understand; but Cole lacks the consistency. Quintana stabilizes the rotation on top of being arguably its best pitcher. That’s worth a LOT. That improves the team beyond numbers.
If I had to guess, Meadows is untouchable to the Bucs. His floor is quite high. He’ll be a good ML player, surely. Glasnow has some question marks, and they are nervous about Bell’s D in the NL. With a rebound from Cutch and a few years of a Quintana, Cole, Taillon, Nova rotation and solid core, the Bucs can rebuild the losses required to get Quintana.
AND WAR EFA AND WHIP ARE THREE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT STATS!
I’m ok with meadows and glasnow not being in a trade for Q. Meadows can’t seem to stay healthy in his young career. Glasnow likely will be a closer or back of the bullpen arm. I’m stating that off of scouting reports by baseball America amongst other MLB scouting profiles.
I wouldn’t use the word dominating, but he’s much more than an “innings eater.”
He a mid range rotation guy. He’s not a #5 starter, but he is definitely not an ace either. Innings eater is not necessarily the insult that you take it as. I think of an innings eater as a steady rotation guy that is rarely hurt and you can pretty much count on him giving you a 50% chance to win the game. That is Quintana. He is this decade’s version of Javier Vazquez.
aaaaand you still have no idea what you’re talking about. Unless for some reason you think mid range rotation guy means a backend number 1 or high end number 2…
Quintana would immediately be the ace of the Yankees staff. He’s certainly better than Tanaka or Pineda.
Here’s the Vazquez comp again. How’s about prime Tampa James Shields. A little 1B-2 starter. Gotta love your Rockies logo…but I really dont think your innings eater definiton is correct. Vazquez wasnt an innings eater in his prime either. Quintana has shown himself to be an elite starter with virtually everything working against him in Chicago. He only gets better in the NL. Your defintion of innings eater makes everyone but elite true aces as innings eaters. Edinson Volquez…that’s an innings eater….a guy brought in to save young rotation and or a bullpen. Typically a seasoned veteran.
aaaaand I still disagree with you. This is not science. There is no absolute correct answer or an absolute incorrect answer. I think he is somewhere between a weak #2 and a strong #4. You have a right to disagree, I welcome it in fact, but that still doesn’t make me wrong.
3.29 ERA, 3.19 FIP, 2.1 BB/9 and 0.7HR/9 is a weak #2 – good 4? (last 3 seasons)
I’ll go out on a limb and say hes a strong 2
No it doesn’t make everyone but elite aces innings eaters. There are worse categories than innings eaters. Talented, but injury prone. Swingman. You are defining innings eater as a junkballer that is just out there to give the other pitchers a rest. I don’t think of it that way. An innings eater is a mid-rotation guy that you can count on for 6-7 solid innings almost every start to give the bullpen a break.
I do agree that Edinson Volquez is also an innings eater. And just because I called them both innings eaters doesn’t mean I think they are same either. Quintana is better than Volquez for the most part, but they can still occupy the same position on a staff. I said I view innings eaters as somewhere between a weak #2 and a strong #4, Quintana would be on the higher end of the spectrum and Volquez would be on the lower end of the spectrum. But they are still both innings eaters in my mind.
I also disagree that the NL is easier to pitch in than the AL. Of the 12 teams that were above league average in OPS in 2016, 7 were AL teams and 5 were NL teams. The bottom 12 is 5 AL teams and 7 NL teams. That’s not really that big of a difference. It is much closer than people think.
Ray Ray – This just isn’t right though. If he is 7th best by FIP last year, that means he could conceivably be the best starter on 24 different teams. Recognizing that FIP is based on past results and does not necessarily predict future value (although it does this better than ERA), it does stabilize decently quickly, and over the past 4 years he has been good enough to be the #1 on half of the teams in the MLB. That means he is a front-end #2 in his bad years and a mid- to back-end #1 in good years. By looking at percentages, he is in the 90th percentile in FIP for qualified starters over the past 4 years. That alone would scream “better than mid-rotation” since the way that standard bell curves work is by grouping in 90% of the subjects in an area of 60-something percent (can’t remember the exact number but it doesn’t approach 90), with 30ish percent going each direction from the midpoint. Basically, it is science, and he is better than “mid-rotation.” It’s not really something where you can just say that the statistics don’t make you wrong. Because they do.
OPS isn’t weighted to account for quality of the opposition. If you had brought in wOBA, that would add more validity to your argument. Because you didn’t consider this, it shows that you don’t have a firm grasp on the minutiae of the NL or AL. This is completely disregarding the DH in the AL which boosts offense as well. The amount by which the DH boosts offense in the AL can be debated, but the fact that it does provide more offense cannot.
His stats and track record make you wrong.
Your attitude and condescension make you a bad person.
I didn’t say there was no difference. I said the difference is not as big as most people think.
And it still isn’t science. If this was science all 30 teams would look exactly the same. There are many different ways to build a team. If you put 150 starters into a pool and told me to build 30 rotations, Quintana would not come off my board until at least pick #45 or so. If you think he is worthy of your #10 pick, then that makes me happy because it means another guy I prefer will slide down to me. Yes his contract makes him more appealing, but I am talking of my perception of his skill. I have been following baseball longer than most of you have been alive. I trust my own opinion. If you don’t, oh well, nice talking to you anyway. Have a nice day.
I mean, I guess you’re right. There is no definition of what is a number 1 pitcher, number 2 pitcher, number 3 pitcher, etc. If you want to completely ignore stats over the last 4 years, I guess you could be right in calling him a weak #2 and a strong #4. I don’t know why you’d want to completely ignore stats, but I suppose you could. Statistically, he has been a top 10 pitcher in the AL in pretty much all the most important stats over the last 3+ years, so calling him a weak #2 and a strong #4 is a little bit of a head scratcher at best. I guess if you want to slot your best pitcher in at the #4 spot and call him a #4, then yes, I agree, he would be a strong #4. He’d also be your best pitcher (or maybe second best at worst), so it wouldn’t make a ton of sense. But if that’s your preference, who am I to stop you?
Tony La Russa has also been in baseball for longer than many of us have been alive, but that hasn’t made the diamondbacks good. Point being that opinions can’t be wrong, but you’re making the mistake of pretending that ignoring facts is the same as having an opinion. I do agree with Priggs89 though. You can slot Quintana as a #4 but that doesn’t make him a pitcher who is worth of the 45th pick.
If Jose Quintana wouldn’t come off your board until pick #45, then your rotation is going to be terrible. There are not 40+ pitchers in the majors who are better than Jose Quintana.
I would love to be a GM dealing with you on Quintana Ray Ray. I just think your philosophy of innings eater leaves a few aces on top and the big ol swath in the middle. Quintana isnt a middle rotation guy….not anywhere…no gm feels that way. Sure…its ok with you feeling that way…the conversation is interesting. But Ill just continue to believe an innings eater is just that….someone that just takes the ball every 5 days and goes 5-6….Ian Kennedy with the Royals…THATS an innings eater.
Jose is not a #3. lol. Jose is a legit top of the rotation arm.
RayRay….theres no way on God’s green earth Quintana is a weak #2. How can you reasonably believe that given the prospects that have been leaked as in the discussion for him from various teams. These are mlb baseball organizations and their gms. If you want to make an argument he’s not a classic ace…I’d understand that. Give me Madison Bumgarner any day and let me run Quintana out the next. Im sorry…but if your definition of innings eater will include Quintana AND Volquez….thats too broad.
You mention league difference….I was SPECIFICALLY talking about Quintana…he’s thrown in an offensive park with a bad defense behind him.
Quintana has been one of the top 10-15 pitchers in baseball over the past 3 seasons. If he is a mid-rotation guy, does that mean you need to be a top 30 pitcher in MLB to be considered a #5 in your world?
Gee I love the innings eater phrase… save
Saves the pen! Sorry phone issue
you dont follow baseball. top in fWAR top 10 in WAR so lets stop the foolishness
Career WHIP of 1.24 isn’t dominant. In 2015 he even gave up more hits than innings pitched. Compared to Archer, Archer is more dominant and it isn’t even close.
Do you even watch what you type?
Archer’s WHIP since 2014: 1.217
Quintana’s: 1.225
Quintana walks less hitters, gives up less homeruns, and has a lower FIP.
Yes, Archer gives up a few less hits and strikes out a few more hitters. But your reasoning is tragic.
Whip doesn’t show if you’re a good pitcher or not
I think the word “dominant” is being used far too often. Is Q a big time strike out guy–No, but his WHIP is not bad in the slightest. There are Hall of Fame pitchers that were not high strike out guys, but I think we could consider them pretty dominant. Archer is not the polished pitcher that Q is. He might have more electric looking stuff and he might eventually sharpen and refine his tools, but Quintana has been sharp every year and controls the other teams lineup. His mental makeup along with his stuff makes him a pretty special pitcher. It is really frustrating for fans to watch their team get dominated by a guy who doesn’t look like he has dominating stuff, but that is what happens when Q takes the mound every 5th day.
Guys Archer is a cancer… trust me you do not want this guy
Can you elaborate on this? I follow the Rays pretty closely and also live in Tampa. I have never heard him referred to as a cancer or bad teammate.
Quintana’s career ERA is the same as Tom Glavine’s career ERA with Atlanta, which included 2 Cy Young awards, 4 other top 5 finishes, and 8 all-star appearances.
A big difference, however, is that Glavine’s advanced stats were: FIP 3.95 K/9 5.3 BB/9 3.1 H/9 8.8 HR/9 0.7 ERA+ 118
Quintana’s advanced Stats: FIP 3.47 K/9 7.4 BB/9 2.3 H/9 8.9 HR/9 0.8 ERA+ 118
Either Quintana is highly similar to Tom Glavine, a Hall of Fame pitcher, or Tom Glavine was just an innings eater.
I love this.
Or glavine pitched in the steroid era
ERA adjusts for league average ERA and park factors. So the steroid era is accounted for here.
It’s going to take at least one top prospect to get someone like Quintana From the pirates you are looking at Glasnow, Meadows, Bell, Newman primarily. Glasnow is the logical choice. the Sox are more looking at position prospects from the rumors which means if you want to trade glasnow you probably need a third team who needs a top pitching prospect and has some ‘extra’ position player prospects.. enter the yankees.
Since Glasnow still has some things to work on, you’ll get 5 or so good years out of him. Quintana you’d get 4 if he stays with the team and is very high quality pitcher on a very good contract.
Bell and meadows are probably off the table but pretty much any other prospect the pirates should consider.
With Pirates pitching coaching and being in the NL, I could see him being an ace. They made Ivan Nova look like one!
As a Red Sox fan, I’d be fine if the Yankees get Quintana and Robertson, as long as a few top prospects are moved. I say Quintana and Robertson for Frazier, Torres, Mateo, and another top prospect. May seem like a lot but who knows, white sox see Quintana’s value almost the same as sale, and look what it costed the Red Sox
I don’t see the Yanks giving that much. They are probably including Robertson’s overpriced contract to lower the cost of Quintana.
Actually Nightengale said the Yankees want the Sox to pay Robertson’s money. The White Sox aren’t trying to dump salary so I doubt they would pair a bad contract with their most valuable asset when it could lower the return.
You’re crazy. They could have gotten Sale for Frazier, Torres, Mateo and another. LOL
Lol…that’s the dumbest post in this thread. You’d need three more guys like Torres for Sale.
Redsox didn’t give three guys like Torres for Sale – cmon…
Torres will be a top 10 prospect this season and Frazier is gonna be top 15.
Yoan Moncada is a better prospect than Torres.
Kopech is a better pitching prospect than anyone in the Yankees system as well
Sox great a great return for Sale, and I expect them, to do the same with Quintana. I could see things lining up for a Torres + Frazier ++ deal for Quintana and Robertson (Sox kick in some cash)
Top 10 does not equal #1. Torres is about as close to Moncada as Pineda is to Sale.
Keep dreaming buddy
Hence the fact I’m a Red Sox fan
Q is an Ace he had no run support for years. Buddy
Define “ace.” He’s a very good pitcher, but let’s not oversell what he really is. However, being a WS fan, you are clearly drinking the Rick Hahn kool-aid. He’s not an ace. He’s not a guy you hand the ball to in September thinking “Here’s the win we are paying this guy for. ” Not a guy with such a poor K rate and such a high hit rate. The dude is damn good, and WAR is such a terrible measure of any kind of value. Mostly because it’s value is absolute, not based on play, but how much that play is on the field.
If two guys average .25 WAR per start, and one guy starts 20 games, and the other 30, they are gonna have a 2.5 WAR difference, when they are actually equal on the field.
Again, keep trying to upsell your guy. I can’t blame you. But there’s a reason their lofty demands haven’t been met, especially with how many interested teams there are.
Q’s HUGE value comes from the fact he’s under so much control (at so cheap). Contract not withstanding, I don’t think he’s on the of the first 25 pitchers selected to headline a rotation. Again, I don’t care what WAR numbers you throw at me. He also outperformed his FIP pretty easily this year, which is an indicator that maybe 2016 had a bit of luck to have as much success as he did.
In 2014 and 2015, he was a 3.5 and 4.0 WAR guy. I think that’s where he stands too. He’s had 2 years above 5, and 2 years at 4 or lower.
Good luck getting the return you think he’s worth, I don’t see it happening.
Amen. The Sox only got 1 player that is ready for the majors next year for the much more valuable Chris Sale. The other 3 prospects in the Sale have a high bust potential.
All prospects have bust potential. I’m good with the white sox approach on the rebuild so far. Let’s them see internal flaws with player development now if top 100 prospects fail. Hopefully the organization will truly evaluate there operations closer during this time.
Who did they get thats ready? Because it’s definitely not Moncada, and Kopech isn’t ready either.
Moncada is at BEST half a year out, and more realistically a year out.
Which is perfectly fine for the White Sox. Why waste a year of service time on any of these young players when 2017 is going to be an absolute suck-fest?
Are you saying two pitchers are equal, even though one pitches 210 IP and the other 140 IP because they were equal when on the field? If you believe that, then the Dodgers should look to trade Rich Hill right now. The could get Moncada, Kopech, plus others in your world.
I just can’t picture the Yankees giving away their top 3 prospects. Just seems like way too much.
That’s not enough for Q and Robertson. The Sox are on the hook for a portion of Robertson’s contract too.
that’s why I included the Yankees giving up so much, because how good Quintana is plus Robertson won’t cost them much, plus relief pitching is in demand more now than ever
And Quintana’s multiple years of control left
You hope to God that’s what the Yankees give up for Quintana. If the Yankees were going to give up that package of prospects, I’d like to think cashman is intelligent enough to have offered it for sale, not Quintana.
Why? Everything I’ve read says Quintana is just as good as Sale. Shouldn’the cost as much?
I disagree with you. Sale’s career era is almost a half run less than Quintana ‘s, his whip is lower, k totals are higher, and walks are lower. The only advantage I see Quintana having over sale is his contract is cheaper and lasts a year longer.
Archer should be the Pirates target if they move top prospects. He is more dominant.
You absolutely hate Quintana for some reason. He is a PRISTINE trade target for Pittsburgh. That kind of makeup moved to the NL with a better defense and park….with an amazing contract. I like Chris Archer….but Quintana is very solid for the Pirates
Oh, why, Cashman? You just did an exciting partial tear-down and gave fans a chance to hope for the future. Now, you are going to reverse it? Don’t do this.
Cash, don’t do it. Give the young arms you already have a chance. If you do, don’t give up Torres, Sheffield, Frazier or any prospect of value.
Kinda makes sense that the Yankees would ditch there rebuild and go back to spending money on upcoming FA classes.
Do it ! Flip Betances, we can’t bank on those prospects working out. Quintana is proven. That’s what we need.
There is a part of me that wouldn’t mind seeing the Rangers try to trade Darvish, while also going after a pitcher such as Quintana that can be controlled for longer than just next season. I’m not saying Darvish is better than Quintana or vice-versa. Rather it’s a way of keeping the Rangers farm from being barren, getting something for Darvish, and having a top end of the rotation pitcher under reasonable control for a number of years.
No on this trade , unless your only getting 2nd tier prospects. If they’re thinking any of the top 5 they just stole this past 6 months, there making a big mistake, as those are can’t miss, future allstars.
Wow. That’s a lot of can’t miss future all stars.
Pretty sure he’s trolling.
lol prepare to be very disappointed…a few of them may very well become ml regulars and there may be 1-2 all-stars in that mix but more often than not prospects will break your heart… even the frazier’s and torres’ of the world…
funny perspective from a yankees fan who for the first time in ages is actually counting/banking on the development of prospects…. welcome to the club!
I have seen a lot of can’t miss future all stars(joba,Kei igawa?) fail to live up to the hype and second tier prospects like posada that become all stars. As John sterling always says, you can’t predict baseball. Everyone is always worried about there top prospects. Not all are Trout. Trade from an area of surplus and get a known entity
What I don’t understand is the Yankees said no to Torres, Judge, and Frazier being in the Quintana deal alone. So how do they expect to get it done when they are also asking for Robertson and the White Sox to pay down his contract on top of that? It almost has to be Hahn saying we have to get Torres or Frazier back and Cashman countering with :”Well then we want Robertson too but you have to pay his salary.” Otherwise this makes little sense. Wouldn’t surprise me if Quintana still went to the Pirates and the Yankees got Robertson. I think the Pirates are probably more willing to part with their top guys (Glasnow, Meadows, Bell) than the Yankees are to part with theirs (Frazier, Torres, Judge). Which if that is the case I think the Pirates obviously are the better partner.
I hope you’re right. I like the Pirates top guys a lot better…
Honestly I think the Pirates are in a better position here. They have more need to get this deal done. The Yankees probably wouldn’t be contenders this year even if they add Q and Robertson. Whereas the Q is exactly the piece the Pirates need.
As a Pirate fan, I agree. Quintana gives us a fighting chance against the Cubs. Note that I didn’t say it makes us equal or better than the Cubs, but it gets us close enough to have a chance. LOL… Wild Card is very possible with him. Without him, I’m not very optimistic. Quintana (or someone similar) is crucial to the Pirates, and there has never been a better time to pounce on a trade such as this for the Bucs.
The core is strong, the staff has made good players better and mediocre players good. Under-the-radar signings have panned out well for the most part, home-grown talent is blossoming. Payroll is still low and under control. The farm is strong. Trade from the farm to strengthen the one clear weakness–the front of the rotation. The rotation and core will be set for several years=plenty of time to rebuild and strengthen the farm. Not a big concern. I am as attached to Glasnow, Meadows, Bell, Newman, Keller, etc., as anyone… but act now, Bucs!
Mateo, Judge and Andujar?
Would love to see the Yankees get Quintana and adding Robertson would be a bonus and pretty much a game changer in the AL race in 2017. I have 3 players that are absolutely off limits though: Torres, Kaprielian and either Frazier, Judge OR Rutherford. I’d part with either Frazier, Judge or Rutherford but NOT 2 of them. After that the White Sox can have any 2 other prospects in the Yankees Top 20 list according to MLB Pipeline: Frazier, Judge OR Rutherford and 2 others, for example Sheffield and Mateo along with one or 2 low level prospects.
For example: Frazier, Mateo and Sheffield are ranked 1, 3 and 6 respectively according to MLB Pipeline.
Hate to say it but there’s a great chance all 3 of those players you want them to keep go (though if that happens, they in all likelihood will have kept Torres)
Not going to happen. When was the last time you can remember Cashman has let the press in on any move he was considering before it actually happened. The blog is pure speculation nothing more.
Trade deadline 2016.
Actually … even more recent – bringing back Chapman. And before that, releasing ARod.
Seriously, Chapman hasn’t exactly been playing this thing close to his chest the past few months.
Keep up the open discussion pinball, I gained knowledge of yanks prospects from your info, thank you
Toby, if you’re interested in Yankees Prospect Rankings:
Yankees Top 20 Prospects according to MLB Pipeline compiled as of Aug.1, 2016:
1 Clint Frazier (OF) – Projected MLB Debut 2017
2 Gleyber Torres (SS/2B) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
3Jorge Mateo (SS/OF) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
4 Aaron Judge (OF) – Projected MLB NOW
5 Blake Rutherford (OF) – Projected MLB Debut 2019/20
6 Justus Sheffield (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
7 Miguel Andujar (3B) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
8 Domingo Acevedo (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
9 James Kaprielian (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
10 Albert Abreu (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2019
11 Dillon Tate (SP/RP) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
12 Wilkerman Garcia (SS) – Projected MLB Debut 2019
13 Dustin Fowler (OF) – Projected MLB Debut 2017
14 Chance Adams (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2017
15 Tyler Wade (SS/2B) – Projected MLB Debut 2017
16 Billy McKinney (OF) – Projected MLB Debut 2017
17 Ian Clarkin (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2018
18 Drew Finley (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2019
19 Jordan Montgomery (SP) – Projected MLB Debut 2017
20 Chad Green (SP/BP) – Projected MLB Debut NOW
You can do a search to find out how Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus and Bleacher Report ranked the Yankees prospects. They vary slightly since any list is somewhat subjective but you will have a pretty good idea of the quality and depth of the Yankees farm system now.
To quote Jim Callis of MLB: ““They may come in at No. 2 but the Yankees do have the deepest and best system in the game,” Callis said.
BTW, while MLB ranked the Yankees Farm System #2 behind the Brewers after the 2016 trade deadline. Bleacher Report ranked the Yankees Farm System #1 and the Brewers #2.
Hope this helps you understand a little more about the Yankees Farm System.
I’m not sure NYY actually have a plan. They are one of them middle teams. 1/3 of the roster is competent , 1/3 upside and 1/3 dreadful. But giving chicken little Girardi another RP to use in the 3rd and drag the enjoyment even further out of the game for the few fans that still go to games seems a wise move.
As a yankees fan, i don’t expect the team to reach the postseason even if we improve the pitching depth. If we get quintana (and probably d rob), there would still be questions surrounding the other starters (tanaka, sabathia, pineda). Even quintana is not a sure thing. For me, as a rebuilding team, the 2017 yankees as of now is pretty good for me. I know the yanks want to do both win and rebuild, but our chances are pretty slim next year. Adding just a bit more chances is not worth giving up more wins in the future.
Quintana is about as close to a sure thing as you can get.
Yep
Not in the AL East he isn’t.
The AL East isn’t what is used to be, and we all know it. It’s no more scary than pitching in the NL Central, AL Central or AL West.
I am not a Yankee fan but I think you are echoing the sentiment of most rational fans these days, I think the days of Yankee fans thinking World Series or bust are over. Most fans seem to realize every team, even those with superb financial resources, are still going to have down years. If you look at thinks objectively the Yankees have needed to rebuild for several years now and they finally are starting to realize that. That is why I don’t see them getting Q and Robertson. Though I could be wrong.
If the Yanks get the Sox to buy into the hype of Judge and Mateo as the centerpiece, it would be a great move for the Yanks. I doubt Cashman moves Torres/Rutherford/Frazier.
It’s not going to happen without at least one of those 3.
Sox would probably take Severino, Mateo, Sheffield, & Abreu for Q & Robertson
In your dreams
Would be a great move for the yankees as their prospects are largely over rated. Mateo is garbage, Frazier has hit 270 in a couple years in a ball. Other than in the winter league Torres has done nothing impressive in a ball. Judge looks aweful.
Yes, we know the tradition. The Yankees prospects are overhyped. The Red Sox prospects are future HOFers. The Braves prospects are future superstars, etc.
And last but not least, when a top prospect is on your favorite team, he’s untouchable because he is a future superstar, and when a top prospect on your favorite team is traded, he was expandable and may not even be an average player in MLB
Tell us who your favorite team is and I’m sure I or anyone can say many of their top prospects probably only hit .270 or have done nothing above A ball.
Love your reply very, very appropriate and true.
When only 66% of first round make an impact in the majors you can look at any teams top 10 & at least 3 won’t pan out. Why else would the Braves target so many former first rounders, gotta figure at least a handful won’t pan out.
Yeah the yankees prospects are never overhyped.
I remember hearing all about the “Three B’s” lmao. Then there was the next greatness of joba the hut and Phillip hughes those guys were gunna be world beaters. What happened to the great benjuelos or whatever his name?
And yeah the redsox track record of producing superstars has been aweful.
Lester, Pedroia, ellsbury, bogaerts, betts, Bradley … Compared to benjuelos , hughes, joba chamberlain, etc
I said Futuire HOFers for the Red Sox, not superstars. But nice try. You left out Cano, Betances, Gardner, Melky Cabrera, and Robertson for the Yankees as well.
Some of those Red Sox players have had multiple great seasons, others have had 1 great season. But yes I won’t argue that they’ve developed players lately. That’s not the point i’m making
(not sure why I’m arguing with you. The worst thing to do with a troll is feed it)
Torres was a top 30 prospect with the Cubs. He gets traded, does worse with the Yankees A ball team than he did with the Cubs’ A ball team and has 15 hot games in the Arizona Fall League and suddenly he is a “Top 5 prospect”?
If that isn’t the ddefinition of overhyped, I don’t know what is.
Torres was the Cubs top prospect, not just a “top 30”
minorleagueball.com/2016/1/20/10762082/chicago-cub…
Did you read the link? Sickels says Torres I is a B+ prospect. B+ prospects are not top 5. Not top 10. Put him in magic pinstripes and Voila! Torres is magically an A+ prospect.
No where did I call Torres a top 10 prospect in baseball. I said he was the Cubs Top prospect. Not the overall Top prospect.
When you said Top 30 prospect with the Cubs, I thought you meant in the Cubs system.
Tell us how you really feel.
Mateo may not make it but Torres, Frazier and Judge will be major leaguers. I hope the Yankees don’t make this move.
Danny obviously doesn’t follow MLB – Torres is in top 5 prospects MLB.com 2017 prospect list.
Torres wouldn’t be in this package. They project HIM to be their future SS. If he was ready right now, they would deal gregorious since his value is at an all time high. Mateo and possibly McKinney and a couple of arms should get it done. He’s not Sale – don’t think the Yankees are naive enough to throw their farm at a guy who averages a 3+ era and around 200 innings a year.
Torres would be absolutely untouchable to me, also wouldn’t trade Blake Rutherford or James Kapriellan. I like Frazier but id be open for him being the headliner along with a few mid tier prospects to land Quintana.
Good luck with that deal…the Sox will not move Quintana without getting 2 top pieces and another 2 top 15 organizational prospects.
I agree with you
You just took the three top guys on the White Sox radar…I think the White Sox would be disappointed if they could only get the #17, #51, and a prospect outside the top 100 for Q. They got a better haul from the Nationals for Eaton. You throw in Andujar or Sheffield, they would jump on it. It would be slightly less than the Sale deal and slightly more than the Nationals deal. If the Yanks want a Robertson involved as well and for the Sox to pay for some part of the salary, it will take Torres, Rutherford, Sheffield, Andujar, and Kaprelian. That is your 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9th prospects. The overall 17th, 51st, 78th along with 2 prospects outside of the top 100. They might swipe out Andujar for another arm or outfielder, but this is about in line with what the Sox have been getting in return this offseason.
The Yankees are not going to trade Dellin. I’m sorry but the idea of that is flat out ridiculous.
They may at the deadline.
the offer rejected by the Yankees was Q for frazier, Mateo, and severino. I assume adding Robertson would net those 3 plus a lower level prospect with upside e.g. Jordan montgomery or kyle holder. yanks get to keep torres while adding 2 assets who will appreciate in value and the sox get another prospect haul. Win win.
Where did you hear the Yankees rejected that offer?
ibn sportswrap tweeted it last week. your call on the quality of source
Adding Robertson would not add any significant value with having clippard, betances & chapman. And warren, cessa, green or Mitchell bound for a long relief role in the bullpen. However, It would allow them to make another trade or two, but I’m sure they won’t part with severino, Frazier and Mateo in the same deal unless they are getting Abreu along with Quintana. I’m sure with this new strategy, they’d rather keep the prospects and see what they offer this year instead of just shipping them off for a piece only valuable to them when they are at least favorites to win their division, not a WC spot.
The Sox have no need or desire for Severino. They have plenty of pitching, much less a guy who averages 4 innings a game. Frazier, Rutherford, plus would be the deal they’d be looking for.
i’m just going off what i’ve read. frankly i don’t understand the interest in severino or mateo and would prefer they go after bird and rutherford. but that’s why i’m a fan and not a GM.
Bird isn’t going anywhere my man
It would cost, Frazier – Mateo – Severino – Sheffield , nothing less
Ok Rick Hahn. We have a GM commenting on this site guys, pay close attention!
Yeaaaa no
Torres will not be in any deal. Period.
Have to agree with this. Writing on the wall that once Moncada, Swanson and Crawford likely graduate this season, that Torres will become the #1 or #2 prospect in the game. And that’s not just my guess either. Seems to be the consensus among many. That said, trading him for Quintana is an absurd business move the Yankees and they know better.
Torres has a heck of a lot of work to do before becoming the top prospect in baseball. A handful of games in the AFL won’t change that.
Actually everything I have read points toward Victor Robles being that guy.
The “three b’s” look out for the three b’s!!
2/1 is a Mets fan. 2.5/1 is a Red Sox fan. 3/1 is White Sox Front Office Official.
2 of them had numerous injuries. The other is a 3 time all star and leads all relievers in WAR the last 3 years.
Yes so the heralded 3 b’s have turned out to be 2 nothing’s and a glorified set-up man
I don’t understand the obsession with Judge as a legit prospect. The swing-and-miss in his game is profound. No defensive position. He’s Richie Sexson.
With only 38 guys hitting 30+ homers and only 8 of those guys hitting 40+ homers, Richie Sexson actually would be pretty valuable today.
Judge is 25 years old, and in 580 AAA at bats has an OPS of .786. He also has 172 K’s in that time so not only has he not dominated AAA, (or even come close to that) but he has shown himself to have a lot of holes in his swing.
He’s not a kid, and he can’t play CF. He’s a decent prospect, a corner OF who can hit one to the moon when he squares it up but far from a sure thing and pretty overrated in a lot of ways. I think he can be a decent corner OF who puts up a .775/.800 OPS. That’s not moving the needle in any deals. Frazier has a lot more upside, if somebody values Judge they should send him out pronto.
Mateo as well, another overrated prospect. I saw him a lot last year… a player with a lot of issues. He has talent and blinding speed but a terrible offensive approach and a total lack of focus.
Torres is awesome, they need to hold onto him. Even if he ends up at 3B, he’ll still be an all star with tons of intangibles.
I should also add that as overrated as Judge and Mateo are, Chance Adams is really underrated. That dude was dealing when i saw him. I would rather give up Judge to be honest, Adams could be exactly what the Yankees are so desperate for, they really, really need some young, cost controlled starting pitching.
Seems pretty silly for the Yankees to undo all the good work they did to get their minor league system in order — getting Quintana and Robertson won’t push the Yankees over the top (or near it), and it would be very expensive.
Summed up pretty well in a few words. Players like Tyler Austin, Aaron Judge and Mateo are great young prospects with huge upside and all are somewhat redundant at this point. Clarkin, Tate, et al, also fall into this batch. I trade those 5 for Quintana and Robertson and the Yanks take on all the salary? Sure, why not, I guess.
This more than likely will not be happening since we know about it. Also, Nightengale is the one reporting this…Bob freaking Nightengale. When was the last time we got the inside scoop on a Cashman trade? Usually it’s one those tweets from either Rosenthal, Sherman, Heyman saying it’s close and a Yankee press release tweet following.
Would love Q, but I just do not see the Yankees spending from the farm system vault just yet. I think these prospects have more value to the Yankees next offseason when they spend 0 dollars in an effort to get under the luxury tax.
Agree. Bob isn’t very reliable. If it was Rosenthal or Passan or even Heyman, I’d buy more into it.
Also if the Yankees trade Luis Severino they will greatly regret it. The kid had a bad year but I think he’ll be just as good as Jose Q.
I tend to agree with this. Severino, at worst, is another Betances in the making and considering the value we see with high leverage bull pen arms, the Yanks are in a fine situation with him. Give him the chance to make the rotation first. The reality is the Yanks over value Severino and the White Sox and others likely aren’t valuing him as highly. He is just a year removed from being one of the top pitchers in the minors and scouts up and down the isle love(d) him.
I don’t think you know what “at worst” means.
As a Red Sox fan, I’d love to see the Yankees be competitive to be honest. I miss the real rivalry. If that means trading for Quintana, fine. If it’s waiting a couple years and growing the prospects, fine. But give me good old Red Sox-Yankees down to the wire for the division at the end of August! Never thought I’d not enjoy watching the Yankees not compete, but here I am. Maybe now having the World Series titles made that winning less important, and now I just want to see close, competitive games.
I felt the same way a few years back in 2012 and 2014 about the Red Sox
Yeah.
2012 was the Valentine debacle right? Must’ve been, since they won next year.
Nightengale isnt always the most accurate. I trust Joel Sherman,Ken Rosenthal even Heyman nuch more. Unless the Yankees are going to flip Robertson it doesn’t make much sense.
Betances is going nowhere. Hes under control at a low price.
Yankees 2017 Roster could look like this:
. Starting Infield Position Players: Bird (1B), Castro (2B), Gregorius (SS), Headley (3B), Sanchez (C), Holliday (DH).
. Starting Outfield: Aaron Hicks OR Dustin Fowler (LF) *, Jacoby Ellsbury and Aaron Judge
. Starting Rotation: Masahiro Tanaka, Jose Quintana **, CC Sabathia, Michael Pineda and any one of the following: Chase Adams, Jordan Montgomery, Luis Severino or Luis Cessa
. Bullpen: Aroldis Chapman, Dellin Betances, David Robertson **, Tyler Clippard, Adam Warren, Bryan Mitchell, Tommy Layne
. Bench: Williams, Austin, Romine and Torreyes
* Assuming Brett Gardner is traded
** Assuming the Yankees trade for him
That is a pretty solid team and with the potential of the addition of Jose Quintana and Robertson the Yankees match up pretty well against any and all of the other AL East teams. The addition of Quintana would change the whole dynamic of the AL East race for 2017.
Remember the Red Sox have lost David Ortiz and Mitch Moreland is not an adequate replacement. And who knows what they will get out of Sandoval. Also, the Jays have apparently lost both Encarnacion and Bautista. and the Orioles may or may not re-sign Trumbo.
Lmao, that is not a solid team, lol
@ Dannydeman, opinions are like (a)ss(hole)s. Everybody has one and you’re no exception.
Please Cash, don’t do it
After hearing all of the Quintana rumors I am not optimistic a deal gets done but at least it is something to make the time go faster being back from work after the holiday weekend. haha
If I am the Sox I the Yankees are such a good fit not only for them but any team willing to make a trade to acquire prospects. I believe that they have the top farm system in all of baseball. I would like to see the Sox offer to eat close to if not all of Robertson’s contract since we will not be contending for the next 3-4 years and his money can come off the books once we look to sign pieces to help us contend. This would maximize the deal in what we could get in return.
I see posts that are asking for Frazier, Torres, Mateo… that wont happen. I do view Quintana as an ace but prospects are held to such a high standard compared to a couple of years ago. (Unless you are the Rizzo from the Nationals). I could still see the Yankees making Torres untouchable. If that is the case I would be happy with a package around Frazier (#15 overall), Rutherford (#51 overall), Sheffield (#78 overall) and James Kaprielian (#9 Yankees top 30)
So to break it down:
Sox get: Frazier (#15 overall), Rutherford (#51 overall), Sheffield (#78 overall) and James Kaprielian (#9 Yankees top 30)
Yankees get: SP Quintana, RP Robertson Sox pay Roberston contract in full or 90%.
Another idea the Yankees could consider instead of pursing a big name like Robertson. Maybe consider someone like Nate Jones. Makes more sense as he is someone that is locked up for cheap over the next 4 years. Also it is a creative contract if he were to get hurt again I believe his contract drops down to the league min. If I am the Yankees they could buy low on Nate Jones and have him and Quintana as young pieces to build around. If Jones were included it would obviously make the cost go up.
Some sox fans may not like this proposal saying it isn’t enough but they would still be getting 3 players in the top 100 and another 1st round draft pick. The Yankees wouldn’t be completely depleting their farm system either as they would still have Torress (#17 overall), Mateo (#18 overall), Aaron Judge (#22 overall), Along with Acevedo who I believe could sneak into the top 100 when the new rankings come out in Feb. due to his high ceiling.
Also it would sting for the Yankees to get these players but you have to give up something to get something. I think it would be a fair trade all around that being sox are willing to eat almost all of Robertson’s contract.
Let me know your thoughts. I could still be drunk from all the eggnog this weekend.
Swap Sheffield for Andujar and make it a 50% salary eat and I could see that working out well.
Definitely still drunk from the eggnog. ChiSox pay Robertsons contract and still only get the haul back? Not happening. That package for Q alone is in the cards, but still doubtful given the CWS asking prices around the league (or at least what’s rumored).
@sngehl01. Love the imput. I agree it may be a light package. Something that I was thinking about when I came up with the proposal is three things that work in the Yankees favor. In the post I said that I viewed Quintana as an ace. However, I don’t believe that the market views him as this. They have him in that 2nd tier of pitchers which may lower his cost as we have heard from the Astros and Braves. 2nd Robertson is coming off of offseason knee surgery which again has to lower his cost as well. 3rd I don’t know much about Clint Frazier but I basically had him right outside that first tier prospects or the untouchables ( Swanson, Torres, Alex Reyes, Ozzie Albies, etc.) Maybe I am giving too much credit to Frazier.
What would you purpose? I agree, I don’t see the Sox eating all of Robertson’s contract either it was just kind of a fun thought if they were to receive more if they do. Lets say the Sox trade Quintana and Robertson eating about half of the contract. What do you think would be a fair trade if that is the case?
Absolutely agree on Q being a 2nd tier innings eater super reliable guy.
For Q only, I can see a deal without Torres or Frazier. I think it’s unlikely CWS moves him now unless it’s a win (what they can get now they can get again at the trade deadline, if not more. They may get same guys, but be more sold on them by watching the further seasoning).
Q is worth a top 50 and another top 100 prospect, plus a pair of lower level guys with the makeup to be a top 75 guy in a year or so.
Robertson, after eating his contract, is worth a nice little prospect haul too.
For Q, I think they have to move Bird, Mateo, Sheffield, and a guy who isn’t heralded yet but should be, Chance Adams.
Guys like Adams are what will make or break the deal. Not a top 100 guy, but outstanding arm. Great physical make up.
For Robertson, two of the guys I already named. Betances/Robertson/Chapman make a nasty 1-2-3 punch at the end. Clippard leading up to it? Be nice..
You never know how teams value prospects (especially a guy like Adams).
I do think CWS are shooting for the moon now, and I think Mateo is SEVERELY over rated (Billy Hamilton 2.0). I don’t think Q moves for a Mateo centered deal unless it’s pretty deep,
I think you have the makings of something here, but I think that Hahn is someone who pays attention to the glaring mistakes of Kenny Williams. He will value high BA over Power potential. I think he will also value solidifying the infield and that is why he will not want Frazier and he will want Torres. If the Sox paid all of Robertson’s contract I would be shocked. The Yankees would have to pay dearly for a cash-strapped team like the White Sox to do that. Frazier will not be the focus for the White Sox here.
I agree. I know the Sox eating Robertson’s salary would be a long shot but I just think they aren’t going to be spending big in free agency over the next couple of years. If it increases Robertson’s value drastically I think they should consider it.. It may be smart for them to hold on to both Q and Robertson for the time being. It is a gamble but if Robertson comes back solid from knee surgery teams may be more desperate and willing to pay more over the trade deadline.
Also it could give Q the chance to show that he is truly an ACE since he wont be hiding behind Chris Sales shadow anymore. Idk it could be a risk worth taking if they dont get what they want this offseason for Quintana.
As much as I want the rebuild to continue they may be better off seeing what next off season and the trade deadline has to offer.
I doubt they would give up 4 out of their top 10 prospects to receive a good(not great) SP and yet another mildly effective reliever coming off of his statistically worst season since 2010. Frazier could be ready in 2017. Kaprielian 17′ or 18′. Rutherford 18′. Sheffield 18′. They would sacrifice way too much potential to get a pitcher who is consistently good, but not a game changing starter and a reliever at the wrong end of his career.
You could be right about the Yankees prospects, but history doesn’t support the idea that all of them will pan out. The one thing we can’t agree on is Q being a game changing starter. He is definitely better than you are describing him. I think a lot of people are puzzled why he is so good, but that doesn’t change that he is extremely good. It’s not that his statistics support it, it is that his statistics over a 4 year period support it.
Quintana, Robertson, and all of Robertson’s salary? That’s going to require quite a haul. Frazier, Mateo, Sheffield, Betances? + 2 lower level prospects? Phew… Just a guess, but dang. I’m basing that on what was being discussed of the Pirates for just Quintana.
There is no way Betances is included in the deal. 3 years of Betances could probably bring back 2-3 Top 100 prospects for the Yankees. Which is why I don’t oppose the Yankees trading a couple of top prospects for Quintana. Should they be mediocre at the deadline, they can get top prospects back in return for someone like Betances or Tanaka (if they don’t give him an extension).
If it was Quintana and all of Robertson’s salary, you’re probably looking at the 3 other players you mentioned + either Judge or Rutherford and another 2 or 3 mid level prospects. If Cashman is desperate (and it doesn’t appear he is), I think he would have made a deal already.
Lmaoo no way betancesia in the deal idk why you would even want him he’s only signed for 3 more years and betances alone is worth 2 top 100 prospects if you look at recent reliever trades so no way you get all that
Maybe instead of a third team for Betances the Sox & Yanks swap Betances for Robertson as part of the compensation for Q.
I could see that Yankees trade betances and 1 or 2 top 100 prospects
Team getting betances trades 2 top 100 prospects plus a prospect in the top 15 of the org
White Sox trade Q and Robertson to Yankees
This makes no sense, are you contending or are you not? From the way this is going I can tell the Yankees might screw this rebuild up, it is probably the most promising rebuild in baseball behind the Cubs rebuild over the last 5 years, yet it seems cashman might deplete their farm system to be mediocre again this year, to me the Yankees need to swallow the pride and do a full rebuild the next two years and amass prospects and wait for 2018 FA, don’t waste your chips now when you won’t compete with Boston, Toronto or Baltimore
I don’t think the Yankees were actually in rebuild mode. They traded 2 months of a closer for a nice deal, traded 2 months of Beltran for a nice package, and got a great haul for a reliever. It set them up for the short term and long-term (Quintana can be a part of both).
While Quintana is a good piece for both the long and short I just wouldn’t give up a judge, Frazier, or Mateo because I think you’d have to include one of those 3 and their potential is higher than Q’s, not to mention you’d have to give up more, if I were them I just wouldn’t fall into a over hyped market at the moment and give up a MLB ready piece plus more
That’s perfect, because I’d prefer Torres and Rutherford to anyone you listed lol.
They are trying to keep their head above water to not wind up like the other big market teams who rebuild and then completely lose their brand “radiance”. Anyone who has been been to a yankee game is well aware that it is an “fun outing” for 90% of the fans at the stadium. Its an expensive dinner. They root for winners, not rebuilding franchises. They understand that winning equates to revenue. They won’t make a move of this size involving their new, shiny prospects unless they are an ace away from a world series. We can definitively say that Quintana is not a Sale or a Lester.
Oh, and the class after the 2018 season is a long way away. Extensions, injuries, etc. Kershaw seems to enjoy LA, Harper is all hype, he may be a .280-30-100 guy in his prime, but not worth 40mil per year, unless the phillies offer him that. Machado would be the only interesting one for the yankees because headley will be a FA at the same time Machado would be entering free agency. Might make sense there.
I understand that appeal, I’m a Phillies fan, and have been to a mets series before they went to the World Series in 2014 and I know how not fun a baseball game can be. I understand that obviously the Yankees want to try to keep baseball intriguing but the market for SP is way over hyped and I feel if they make this move it’ll cost Frazier, Judge or Mateo or Torres, plus some over nice depth pieces. It’s not a sexy move but I would just fill out the rotation with some pieces that can be flipped at the deadline, try to win but don’t sell a big piece of the future for 5 more wins this year, not saying Quintana is a bad pickup but he’s not a game changer and the market is inflated due to the Sale trade from what reports have said. And while true the 2018 class could be a lot different by the time we get there, as of now it’s stacked and just know that atleast Harper, and probably Machado and Donaldson. But really my point is to let some of the kids develop, let the outfield and infield take shape over the next two years with Torres and Mateo and Frazier and Judge. I just don’t think Q changes much in a stacked division.
“We can definitively say that Quintana is not a … Lester.”
We can?
How do you comment to a specific post on the thread? The only option it gives me is to Reply Report for an offensive message.
Click just “Reply”
Yankees fans everywhere, “some prospect I’ve never heard? No. You’re stupid. He’s the next mantle and DiMaggio. Not trading him.”
Torres and Frazier are untouchable, we wouldn’t trade for Robertson just to trade betances.Look for maybe justice shefield Blake Rutherford, Mateo and Acevedo not a far fetched package. Yanks aren’t going to give that up though last time we won our core came from the farm cashman loves the farm system if he wasn’t going to dismantle it for sale he certainly won’t for Quintana
No way Cashman, stay away from this one. No way Frazier or Torres are going. Mateo,Judge, and a pitching prospect is all I would give. Quintana is no Sale, so the Whitesox need to get that through there head. If Cashman includes Torres or Frazier, I will refuse to watch baseball until Jeters son plays
Well guess what? That attitude put Chris sale on your rival’s juggernaut.
And guess one more thing? Jose Quintana is now Chris Sale value. So that’s the price. Pay it or continue getting whooped by Boston for the next 5 years.
youll be crying over how bad your pitching is in 365 days, questioning why cashman didn’t go after sale or Quintana. Good luck with that
Long time lurker, and I had to sign up for an account based on the comments I’ve read. While I know as little as others about the inner workings of teams on here, some of these responses and suggestions are baffling. There is precisely zero chance that Torres, Frazier, Rutherford, Sheffield, are part of any deal. That’s just fact. And we can argue the merits of this all day, but none of those would be moved in a Quintana trade. Zero, nada, zilch of a chance. Now, I could see some combination of a Judge, Mateo, and an arm like Clarkin and maybe Tate as a trade. 3 former first rounders and an international signing in Mateo. Clarkin and Tate have high upside, but might be a while. Judge is somewhat redundant now for the Yanks, but I’m very high on him, as are scouts. Seems the only people down on him are internet commenters that really don’t know what they’re talking about (strange how that works). And Mateo, has huge potential as a middle infielder and all the athleticism to play CF, which again, he now becomes redundant for the Yanks (at both positions).
An aside note, I’m slightly amused by those that feel the Yanks “couldn’t” have traded for Sale or “beat” the Red Sox package. I’ll leave it at that. Amusing. I need to work those post Christmas stomach muscles, so thanks for the chuckle.
“There is precisely zero chance that Torres, Frazier, Rutherford, Sheffield, are part of any deal. That’s just fact”
Then there’s no deal. That’s just.
Do you know how many Red Sox & Nats fans said that very same thing about the guys who went in those trades?
Quintana is a 100 mil player if he was in FA. A 27 yo lefty making 30 cents on the dollar for 4 years is most certainly is getting one two of those guy in return. Prospects bust way more than hit, sorry you are not getting a proven top tier major leaguer in his prime for 1/3 of his value for your 5th and 6th least likely to bust guys.
If the yankees decide to decide to alter their timeline from sticking with a true 100% youth movement approach to building the roster to compete in the next couple years thru something of youth, FA and Trades and that leads to them getting Q its not going to be judge and mateo.
You’re comparing apples and oranges. You can’t. You’re talking about a couple pitchers versus position players. You’re talking about pure athletes (Frazier and Torres) versus players who aren’t necessarily of that pedigree. Sure Giolito has huge upside, but as we’ve seen pitchers are fickle and their propensity for injury (prolonged or career ending) is far more severe than a guy like Torres or Frazier.
Ha… yes, pitchers can be fickle and their propensity for injury is more severe.
Which is exactly why Quintana’s value is so how high. 27 yo Lefty innings eater built like a horse with zero injury history for 35 million dollars the next four years.
We’re talking about one of the very best contracts in the game. As were Sale’s and Eatons and big reason they got so much. It’s not just how good they are, but also how great those contracts are.
Now you might be looking at it from the angle of the Yankees aren’t built to seriously to compete next year or the next so it wouldn’t make sense for them to include any of those guys, fine. That makes sense. Strictly from where they’re are as an organization.
However, if they have a different opinion and do make a deal for him, sorry, its just not happening without one or more of those guys.
Doesn’t matter if the Yankees, Astros, Pirates whomever… no one is telling the Wsox our top 4 guys are untouchable and getting him. No one. You not just trading for one of the best and most consistent pitchers in baseball, you’re trading for the contract and the absurd return it gives you for your dollar.
This is just another of example in the endless supply of examples of Yankee fan stupid. Their prospects are better than every proven player out there. Evidently that’s “fact”
“Nope can’t trade the 2 prospects i never heard of that we’re on 2 different organizations 6 months ago. Can’t do it. That’s stupid. and that’s a fact”
Maybe see if MLB Trade Rumors can undue your registration. This is one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve read on any team’s threads….more like there’s no deal without at least 2 from that list of “precisely no chance, zero, nada, zilch” prospects.
Probably why Robertson is being inserted in supposed talks….Yanks eat some of that contract it might lower the prospect haul a bit. Or….the Yankees are being used as leverage to get Pittsburgh or Houston..etc to squeeze one off or get off the pot.
Well considering the yankees don’t have a single hitter in their minor league system the caliper of moncada and don’t have a single pitching prospect as highly regarded as kopech…
Clarkin does not have big upside, he’s a back end starter type..
Tate has looked awful as a starter, his upside is as a bullpen arm.
Those two are throw ins for Quintana. The pitcher that scouts like is Adams, he’d have to go as a part of any package.
There are also lots of teams not sold on Mateo. The prospects universally loved in the scouting community (at least the ones I have spoken with at games) are Torres, Frazier and Adams. Andujar is a player who might have more value with certain teams moreso than others. Scouts have been divided on him. Kaprielian has a great arm but a lot of GMs will not want to take a chance on his innings profile.
Amazing how many GM’s are moonlighting as posters here. So much so they clearly know what and who it will take in a package to make a deal happen.
Welcome to MLB Trade Rumors…
Why be salty everybody has there opinion and this is the reason for the comment section under the posts
And hence you have my opinion above.
Opinions about baseball yours is about people
Thats why I rarely…rarely..make these prospect proposals that are always on here…thats just ridiculous to me. Been around here for 10 years….always been kind of like that..but the site reboot took it way out
I think you do need to realize, though, that some people here have a background in the game.
The Pirates need to land Quintana.
Then, this time next year, the Yankees can offer up the same prospects for Gerrit Cole.
Pass
A Boras guy who the Yankees spent a first round pick on previously…..a deal for Cole is a real possibility for NY.
Yes it would be an ideal placement but Yankees haven’t operated like that in over 4 years. Trying to make the big trade for a guy like cole it probably not in the books and cashman said it himself earlier in the offseason
Pirates can land Quintana. They just have to let go of Bell or Meadows.
I’m impressed with how the Yanks played the last 12 months. Borderline wild card competitor, a massive prospect haul for rentals a reliever, and they brought back in one of the rentals, and can replenish some of what they lost without losing the majority of the prospects. Cash played this well.
Agreed, but now I wonder how well (or not well) he plays this.
If he doesn’t give up everybody it’s a win in my opinion. Give up a package based around 2 of Frazier/Sheffield/Rutherford and and interesting idea might be Robertson for Headley if you make the lesser pieces going to Chi Sox more interesting. Not sure what the salary is there, but what if you pay Robertson in full and they take Headley?
The Yankees have no legit replacement for Headley. Unless they sign someone like Valbuena. Only way Headley makes sense to go to the White Sox would be if Frazier goes to the Yankees. I’d be in favor of doing that and who knows whether the White Sox (or even Yankees) would too, depending on whether a team values the bat or defense. Frazier has a higher wRC+ but Headley has a higher WAR but that’s mainly due to defense
Watching Headley hit last year was just sad, so if they trade him for Frazier or sign Valbuena they’d be better off. I don’t know much about Valbuena other than I’ve heard his name, and he’s not Chase Headley.
@sngehl01. Love the imput. I agree it may be a light package. Something that I was thinking about when I came up with the proposal is three things that work in the Yankees favor. In the post I said that I viewed Quintana as an ace. However, I don’t believe that the market views him as this. They have him in that 2nd tier of pitchers which may lower his cost as we have heard from the Astros and Braves. 2nd Robertson is coming off of offseason knee surgery which again has to lower his cost as well. 3rd I don’t know much about Clint Frazier but I basically had him right outside that first tier prospects or the untouchables ( Swanson, Torres, Alex Reyes, Ozzie Albies, etc.) Maybe I am giving too much credit to Frazier.
What would you purpose? I agree, I don’t see the Sox eating all of Robertson’s contract either it was just kind of a fun thought if they were to receive more if they do. Lets say the Sox trade Quintana and Robertson eating about half of the contract. What do you think would be a fair trade if that is the case?
1st. I agree with Paul Konerko for office, maybe Mayor of Chicago, but not president lol.
2nd. Send Jorge Mateo, Dillon Tate, Tyler Wade, Tyler Austin and choice of Higasshioka and Mason Williams for Quintana, Robertson with 50% salary paid by CWS and 3B prospect Trey Michalczewski.
That deals not even close;
I can dream right? But Mateo can be used at 2B in 18′ and they can trade frazier for a few prospects/SPs and put saladino there. Its is an idea based on need since they have two starters already slotted with lopez and giolito and kopech coming in 17 or 18. And carson fullmer probably going to make the team out of sprint training,
LOL even the most-biased NYY fan would hang up the phone on that deal. That’s just disrespectful.
OK lets do this without my goggles.
1. Torres is not going anywhere.
2. Frazier i’m sure the Yankees contemplated if trading for Sale, but why Quintana?
3. Blake Rutherford could be considered the best hitter in the Yankees farm system.
4. White Sox have a boatload of mid-level OF prospects in the minors.
5. White Sox want to get rid of Frazier.
If the Yankees have to part with one of them? Clint Frazier would be my guess.
Clint Frazier, Tyler Wade, Dillion Tate and Albert Abreu they received from the McCann trade. Maybe throw in Mason Williams to close it out.
This comment section looks like a classic “I want the best guys out there, but they can’t have any of our top 10 prospects” kinda comment section.
Any deal for Quintana starts with at least two of Torres, Frazier, Rutherford or Mateo, then probably another Sheffeld, Judge, Andujar guy, then another lower tier prospect in their 15-25 org range.
This.
Unless they trade Betances too which would probably take away the “at least two of Torres/Frazier/Rutherford/Mateo” piece and I’d be in favor of doing that if I’m the Yanks. Betances alone can get 2 Top 100 prospects. Probably even 3.
Trading Betances completely negates the Robertson part of this whole thing, and Betances would cost too much for any team to really be in on him. He cost in that Andrew Miller range, and then a little more
But it gets Quintana at a “cheaper cost” as far as prospects go, which is why I am saying trading Betances can make sense If the Yankees really want to keep both Frazier and Torres, though there’s still a good chance the White Sox would get at least 1 of them
If the Yankees can somehow get Quintana without giving up Torres or Frazier (no I am not calling them Can’t Miss type guys. Nobody is), I think Cashman would do it.
My answer to that is… why would the White Sox want the gamble of the biggest part they’re getting is a reliever, with hopes he stays healthy and they can flip him later. Just getting the prospects now would make a lot more sense. Betances really doesn’t make sense for either team
Because the White Sox are far likely to do worse next year than the Yankees just like this year, and then They can trade Betances at the deadline to a contending team in need of relief help. Of course the Yankees can also trade Betances at the deadline but I wouldn’t bank on them doing that if they have a +.500 record.
(these rumors all appear to be false anyway)
White Sox would have no interest in Betabnces as a main piece for Quintana. They want controllable, top end prospects like Frazier, Torres and Rutherford
Why would the Sox want betances now? What purpose does he serve a team that is tanking and at least 3-5 years away from contending? Rebuilding teams don’t start with bullpen upgrades…..They finish with them. Chicks have zero interest in betances right now.
I never said it was straight up nor did I say Betances had to be the center piece. The center piece can still be a top prospect, but the addition of Betances would lower the prospect haul and worse comes to worse, the White Sox at the trade deadline would have a valuable trade chip that can get them other top prospects. It makes it a win-win trade for both teams.
That’s what I’ve been saying to both sides. If the Yanks want both Q/Robertson, the Sox will want to fill their needs – biggest of which are OF/3B/C. So a deal that makes sense and fits with their other two deals this offseason would be Frazier, Rutherford, Andujar, and like you said another top 20 org prospect. Meets market value, fills holes for the Sox, Yanks still have plenty of young OF guys and doesn’t dent the system as much as people think upon first knee-jerk reaction.
This exactly. If a trade is done this is what it is.
I feel like these threads really kicked up when the Braves started flipping on Sox fans who said Teheran was only worth 2 of Devers/Kopech/Espinosa and not Moncada/Benintendi. It went downhill from there…
The problem with that is… Red Sox fans were absolutely right for thinking that.
Q is a legit high end pitcher with multiple years of cheap con trol, and hes young.
Add all of that up, he should require any farm system’s #1 prospect, and go from there..
I know. That’s why it went downhill. It started reasonable, and then they got progresssively unreasonable.
“should require any farm systems number 1 prospect”?
That statement is as flawed as pretending that the number one prospect in baseball is just as valuable as the number 50 prospect in baseball.
Some teams have no top 100 prospects while others have 7 or 8 of the top 100 prospects.
Finally, someone who recognizes market value.
Sale landed the best prospect in MONCADA- supposedly there is a wide margin between him and everybody else per both Joel Sherman and Bowden. Then add in kopech, a top 30 prospect. Finally a toolsy CF with some pop and a 100 mph throwing project. And then lets not forget that was when *both* Chris sale and Quintana were on the market, and midtier options like Rich hill and Ivan nova were unsigned free agents.
With all that considered, Jose Quintana (with a 4th year of control over Sale’s 3, and now making ‘Ivan nova money’) is certainly worthy of any team’s best prospect headlining the trade. Something along the lines of Torres (top 20), Rutherford (top 50), and 2 other pieces- I don’t claim to have knowledge to find comparable to basabe and Diaz in the sale trade.
While this may sound steep to a lot of Yankee fans, this really is not to be considered “stupid, crazy, or untouchable.” If you feel that way, perhaps you might follow the 2017 season of Jose Quintana for a little perspective on how valuable of a player he is
Either the Pirates want to contend in ’17 and ’18 or they don’t. Anytime I see the Yankees involved, I get the queasy feeling that the idea is to package McCutchen and go the 3-team route, which lacks all logic for Pirates fans. After all, how do you bring the left handed big gun into your rotation and then trade away a huge piece of your outfield, opting to have a patchwork outfield with either a green replacement or slotting in someone who comes nowhere near to filling those shoes?
I am not a huge Cutch fan but I tend to look at last season as an aberration. Bring in Quintana for Glasnow and Bell? Great. But you can’t bring him in, ship Cutch and still hope to contend this year. That’s just outrageous
The idea is to trade Cutch so they don’t have to give up Glasnow or Bell. Or at least not both.
Trading Cutch for prospects and adding a few non blue chip Pirate prospects to get Quintana is a FAR better route than dealing Meadows and Glasnow plus in a deal for him.
Nightengale just said the Yankees, White Sox and Pirates discussed a potential 3 way trade (no names mentioned except Quintana and it did not mention which team would get him)
There were rumors the other day about this (from an uncredible source) that said the Pirates would get Quintana, the Yankees would get Cutch, and the White Sox would get prospects.
The sources you speak of are credible. They know people that work in the Sox front office who have also broke other trades that have gone through in ahead of the big national media guys hearing anything about it.
And they’ve also been wrong many times making up crap, which is what this appears to be by Nightengale (who sadly Is a credible source)
Just because they tweet about teams talking about a deal only for the deal not to happen, doesn’t mean the talks of the deal didn’t happen. Not every trade that gets talked about gets made. Instead of arguing though, we can both just agree to disagree if they are credible or not.
Now Joel Sherman just shut these rumors down
Checked with few folks and #Yankees are not working on a deal that involves Quintana/Robertson #Whitesox
smokescreen to try and jack the Pirates or Astros
He also tweeted they are saying it’s because they don’t have payroll space so someone needs to take Gardner and/or Headley. So much posture haha
I doubt that the Yankees trade Frazier. Obviously, they like his tools, but this off season Frazier has been highlighted time and time again by the Yankees PR department. I think the Yankee brass expects him to break camp with the big club. I can see Torres or Mateo included for the right package, but not Rutherford, Severino or Betances. The Yankees have a lot of pretty good talent in the minors that would interest most teams. If the ChiSox insist on Frazier et al I’d bet the Yankees walk away from the deal.
Betances isn’t getting dealt, and Severino is a glorified reljever.
If you aren’t willing to deal Rutherford or Frazier, then more than likely, the Yankees are gonna get Q. A major point of making a blockbuster work is giving up a guy or two who you really didn’t want to. (Moncada, Alfaro, Velasquez, Torres, Frazier, Russell, etc)
I assume you mean Aren’t gonna get Q
Truth
How is severino a glorified reliever? The guy had a good call up in 2015 and had a down year in 2016. .
Might be a little bit of an exaggeration as severino certainly has time on his side, but like a lot of “can’t miss” prospects, his star has certainly faded from that of 2 years ago.
Perhaps a cautionary tale…
Because he is a two pitch pitcher with some command questions.
I heard Rutherford and another high level prospect, don’t know who, is involved in this. I prefer to keep Rutherford, even if it means we get McCutchen and/or Robertson.
Heard where?
It makes sense that the White Sox would want to deal with the Yankees since they have MLB’s #1 farm system. A significant trade between the clubs could have the White Sox switching places with them atop that list.
The White Sox need more positional prospects, something the Yankees have an abundance of. While the White Sox boast 4 pitchers in their top 5, the Yankees elite are all position players, 2 middle infielders and 3 outfielders. The Yankees do have some young arms further down the list but it’s quite evident that their big league starting rotation is below average and includes two huge health concerns at the top with Masahiro Tanaka and 36-year old CC Sabathia. Jose Quintana would give them MLB’s most durable starting pitcher and one who is also among the top 15 or 20 overall. Make it so, Rick Hahn.
If the pirates trade with the CWS i was kinda hoping they could get David or Nate included in the deal some how.. would pretty much take care of any pitching holes they have… i’m sure it would take a lot though
I would love a rotation upgrade like Quintana specially after they might be loosing 3 starting pitchers next season (Tanake, Pineda and Sabathia). I would hate to lose Frazier or Torres in any trade. I see them trading Betances, Mateo and a couple of lower prospects in this deal if they are including Robertson.
Why would the Sox want Betances in a deal that shortchanges them top tier prospects needed in a rebuild? They have no need for him.
To trade him at the deadline for multiple top prospects. Look what 1/2 year of Chapman brought back the Yanks. Betances as of now still has 3 years of control.
So…..you trade a very good pitcher who is cheap for FOUR years for some mid tier prospects and a pitcher who is also very good but cheap for THREE years….in the hopes that you can then…maybe…trade him later for the same type of high end prospects you’re asking for now.
I get it. Makes perfect sense
Did I say anywhere it was a straight up trade or that the best prospect traded would be mid tier??
You also realize not a single thing of what you said disputes what I said (the haul that Chapman bought back).
I get it. Makes perfect sense. Because there’s no argument against that (the haul that the Yankees got for Chapman was very big)
I’m really enjoying how people in the comments are really using “we” haha. Either there are front office execs here or people are taking on the identity of teams they root for, both of which are sort of saddening.
Meh. The fans are part of the team. Without them, the team doesn’t exist.
I was referencing people giving their opinions and saying we and I.. Our ideas and suggestions are not being utilized in any bearing whatsoever. Fans pay money for entertainment. Fans pay the team. If you go and become a fan of any other franchise, there will be another person to replace you, i’.e. buy your ticket, pay for concessions, watch them on television. And you’d be replacing a fan that no longer supports your new franchise.
Oh yeah then I agree with you. It is a little silly to say “we” when talking about trades since we aren’t actually involved.
What’s it matter people will still do it so don’t waste time posting about it
I’d love to see it happen, but….why would the Yankees want McCutchen?
As a Pirates fan, I can see the Pirates landing Jose Quintana. The Sox have traded Chris Sale and possibly Quintana. They are down to starters and Pirates are rich with pitching. Offering Tyler Glasnow, Steven Brault, and another pitcher to be added to the mix of Josh Bell and possibly throw in McCutchen. McCutchen could be flipped at the trade deadline for more prospects.
Many have given McCutchens worst year of his career, a downfall for his potential. This guy is one of the hardest working players in the league. He strives to be better when you think he can’t get any better. He has a chip on his shoulder after last season. I am 100% confident he will turn around his career going into this season offensively. I do believe he needs to move to RF/LF. RF is ideal choice since by metrics, he is much better going to his right then his left. Either way, Sox get a nice load of prospects from Pittsburgh and the Pirates get a controllable pitchers to fall into a good rotation with Cole, Tallion, and Nova. Last 2 spots are going to rookies unless a trade or FA fills in one of the 2 spots. It is a win-win for both clubs
You might want to take a second look at the Sox system. All they have is young pitching, they need bats. Bats to fill the OF, 3B, and C. Their dream deal would be for Meadows, Bell, and one of Newman/Diaz/Craig.
i’d have to think long and hard about including Bell in any deal, even as the main piece going back, but Meadows? i’d hang up immediately. now you’d want BOTH? AND another piece on top of them? absolutely not. the Pirates can’t do that.
at least you said it’d be their “dream deal”. as in, it would only be a dream.
You’re drastically overvaluing Bell if that’s your hesitant headliner. Early rumors with the Pirates were Glasnow, Bell, and two top-20 org guys. The dream deal above is relatively equal unless the Pitt folks really are selling hard on Glasnow.
I strongly disagree with adding all those offensive bats in any trade. Brault is major league ready and fill into a role that Sale and Quitena had before being traded. You add Glasnow to the deal, you have a possible second option to start in the rotation. I realize Sox have young pitching, but the names above provides security and depth. One of these names I mentioned can be slotted into the rotation before spring training starts. Brault is a top/middle type of pitcher. Has a great ground ball rate and could eat innings. He is probably underrated by many scouts and media networks.
Bell is a nice piece to add to the trade chip. I would also being open to trade Diaz since his trip to MLB is blocked by the Pirates current duo behind the plate. I see no major loss between Bell and Diaz. But if you want Meadows, Sox better include more than Quitena to make that deal happen. Adding Meadows is overpaying. Will Craig is already a steep price that can potentially make or break the trade deal
I’m trying to make sense of anything that you’re saying and keep coming up with huge question marks. I’m guessing you’re a Pirates fan with how high you are on their guys. If you’re a Sox fan, you need to go get to know your own system. “Security and depth” is an oxymoron when talking about pitching prospects and they already have plenty of that in Rodon, Giolito, Kopech, Fulmer, etc. and etc.
Your logic seems to be a typical Sox fan. White Sox haven’t sniffed the post season in what, 20 years? Out of those 20 years, how many losing seasons have they had? Pirates came along way since their streak of bad runs. White Sox can turn the corner in 2-3 years by making reasonable trade chips. Washington got desperate and overplayed for Sale. It was a “sucker” trade and has the rest of the league scratching their heads. What I purpose to make the deal is logical and smart. But again, White Sox fans are still bitter over Cubs quick turn around and wish they had the club they do.
As a Pirate fan, I understand the frustration of losing players and losing seasons. As a White Sox fan and organization has to be open to all pieces and options going forward. Say what you will, but the prospects that Pirates have, has every team around the league drolling. Pittsburgh has one of the richiest Farm Systems in the league, who wouldn’t want a taste of the pie?
You do know that the White Sox won a World Series in ’05, right? Something that Pittsburgh hasn’t done in 30+ years… That makes up for a ton of the frustration over the last “20 years.” There streak of badness comes nowhere close to what Pittsburgh fans had to experience.
And there aren’t many White Sox fans that are “bitter” about the Cubs winning the World Series for the first time in 100+ years. I’m sure there are some, but most don’t really care. Anyone with a brain is more impressed than bitter at what Theo was able to do and is hopeful that Hahn is able to do something similar.
I know the Sox haven’t not had the best 20 years, but jeez… to forget they won a World Series. 2005 was not that long ago!
And as a Sox fan I will state, at least for myself, that I am not bitter the Cubs won. I am somewhat jealous of what they have done though. Hence the excitement for the Sox rebuild, as the Sox are starting the rebuilding in a better spot than the Cubs did (ie Cubs had no one of Sale, Quintana, and Eaton’s value to trade).
Glasnow, Brault and ANOTHER pitcher. PLUS Josh Bell. And then, just for fun, toss in Andrew McCutchen as well?
Maybe include PNC Park as well and get that deal done.
Josh Bell is good prospect for the AL. His bat can fill DH role or he can play RF/1B. McCutchen being dealt isn’t such a bad thing. If they ask for Meadows as well, I’d hang up.
As for Glasnow and Brault, the are controlled players beyond 2020. Brault is more proven prospect than of Glasnow, Bell, and any other prospect in the system. Bell and Brault took MLB by storm and they should be center pieces for a guy like Quitena. You add Glasnow and another prospect (consider Craig if Kang makes a return). Deal is done if you ask me
ok to keep this simple as a sox fan, its frazier,torres, rutherford for q alone. then if they are asking for roberston in it plus eating some of that money which bothers me to a point but not entirely. then andujar and maybe fowler get thrown in or just andujar, then you have a deal. otherwise get pittsburg on the line again. Remember guys this deal doesnt have to happen yet. Plus thefcat that roberston could go to mets for either conforto which im not a big fan of considering how bad he has been or dominic smith. their number 2 prospect. and maybe one of their catching prospects. but in a perfect world i would love gary sanchez in deal with yankees for q, torres,andujar and rutherfrod.
Lmao no that’s even better than the sale package
You also have to remember there is no way the Yankees give that up when still rebuilding so don’t get your hopes up and when does Pitt ever give up top prospects. They’re a team built around the farm in my opinion Q is staying put
Rick hahn got impatient in sale deal. he wanted devers and benintendi in it as they shouldve asked for it and shouldve gotten it. They couldve waited till end of winter meetings or just tell boston we came down in asking price already. That is what we settle for, you either want to go win worldseries or go get swept in playoffs again. As for your yankees, well cashman wants to do it cause its cheap dollars wise plus it saves money for 2018 when they can open check books again like they always do for harper,macahdo,etc…. It would be dumb for cashman to over pay for arrieta and other picthers over 30 next season.
Hey, the first insane Sox fan I’ve seen all afternoon. As insane as the Yanks fans are for saying all 3 are untouchable, it’s equally insane to think the Sox could get all 3 in the deal. Very possible to get two maybe, but zero chance of getting the top 3.
@soxfanjose I think you drank too much eggnog over the holiday. The Yankees are not going to unload their farm system – and Sanchez for Quintana. First off, Quintana is not worth that much. Second, Yankee fans would revolt and Steinbrenner would feel the pain at the box office.
Go Cashman, get it done! Yanks have some excellent pieces to make this deal! To make this better than what they wanted from Houston the Yanks offer Severino 1.6 W.AR. or Green. Judge1.6 WAR, and Mateo.18 prospect All three are rated higher than Musgrave 0. Martes, 29 prospect, and either Cameron or Tucker.. Nobody knows how these players are going to progress, but these are Fangraphs projections on paper.
Not even in the ballpark. Torres and Frazier are the starting point……Judge isn’t worth anything right now and severino’s value is low.
Yeah, Judge is worth nothing because the first 80 or so bats of an MLB player defines their career.
It’s hilariois seeing yankee and pirate and astro fans be like “you will give us quintana at the price we deem acceptable”
Quintana is a decent #1 and a good/great #2.
Yankees want him AND Robertson with the white sox eating some cash itll cost the yankees big time.
Mateo, one of frazier or torress, mckinney, clarkin, mason williams, Acevedo, and Sheffield is about what the yankees give up for 4 years of a cheap quintana and a reduced robertson.
No one’s gonna give up that much prospect value for Quintana. Sale was a perfect storm, where you had a top 5 in baseball arm, and a team in the Red Sox that had just hired a go-for-broke GM, was championship ready, and had a stocked farm. The Nats were a second situation close to that (although I think the White Sox are going to be sorely disappointed in what they got for Eaton, basically a couple of back end starters). There are no other teams like that out there.
White Sox will keep Q at least until the deadline, and maybe for another full year, until they deal him for MUCH less than you’re suggesting.
Couple things wrong with your comment.
1. Course nobody is giving that up for JUST Quintana. Except, reports are that the Yankees want Quintana AND Robertson with White sox eating couple mill on Robertson. At 12 and 13 mill Robertson has a good contract without chipping in money. But, the Yankees can’t take on more salary.
2. If they just deal Quintana they can still get a package of Mateo and judge or Frazier or Torress to headline with another prospect in the Mateo deal or 2 in the deal with Frazier or Torress
3. If they hold onto quintana come the deadline and it’s a sellers market like it last year it will cost the same or more for a team to acquire his services for 3.5 years if he’s producing at the same level.
4. The Yankees want the white sox to reportedly cover some amount of robertsons committments the next two years. Hes owed 25 mill next 2 years. He had a great 2015 and good 2016. Relievers are at a premium right now in the league.
5. Quintana is making 7 mill this year, 8 mill next year, and 10.5 mill next 2 year. You will not find a pitcher who has a more team friendly contract of 4+ years than that in baseball excluding pre arb and arb eligible pitchers.
I love how people just want to annoint Boston the team to beat based on this year’s young core and what they provided. How will they respond next year is what you have to look at Bradley Jr batted .233 after the all-star game, bogaerts batted .253 , betts did bat .338 , you had a career year from Porcello and he was always penciled in as #4 so there will be regression. Another big factor is that offense won’t have the protection of Big Papi and to bank on pedroia to go thru another season healthy will be a big if;
From the Yankees perspective can they get production from Bird, Judge , Sanchez , you can’t give up on Severino as he is a young pitcher and those that say he is just a 4 innings pitcher is gladly mistaken let’s remember young pitchers have and will struggle look at pedro martinez, randy johnson, arrieta to name a few.
Now for trading an arm and a leg for Quintana is not worth it although prospects are just prospects yes anything can happen but also Quintana can regress especially with an expected bad team awaiting White Sox which could lead the manager to leave him in the ballgame which can inflate his era and shatter his confidence and then what will the White Sox do?.
Yankees don’t need to trade for Quintana as they are not in a win mode this year so it makes no sense to follow suit instead they can go for a hammel, ross, cj wilson to give some veteran innings as 2018/2019 it will be a star studded free agent class for pitchers and position players.
actually they do need him. 4 years of cheap control behind maeda. So you are telling me you would rather have yanks buy picthing and pay an arm and a leg for it for guys over 30 i. e jake arrieta etc…… and miss the chance of saving that money for guys like machado,harper,etc……. Sabathia coming off books next year, plus other guys. They are trying to setup for that year 2018 while still getting shot at wildcard this next season with weaken east. They are a perfect match. its simple economics. Here is another fact, we have never seen 2 allstar picthers on trade market like sale or quintana with those kind of contracts ever and will probably never see that again. Remember they are not rentals like others have been in past like greinke.
Yeah, some people don’t seem to get his pretty much unparalleled economic value given his age, lefty, health and consistency
If the yanks want to compete in 18 either way they’re going to have to pay. So why not take a serious look at the sure thing for whose contract allows you to sign another sure in the spot of the prospects you traded… who let face it are anything but a sure thing.
If you’re willing to spend huge on a FA equivalent to Q next year… its gonna cost you triple than the 35 for 4 years you have him at. So you can role the dice on that and hoping the couple guys you would dealt for him hit… or you can have a top tier proven Q AND 70+ mil to fill the slot of the guys (who may not do anything) with another proven top tier talent for the price of the 1 arm you were going to buy.
Sorry, unless your GM is theo epstrein or your top guys were consensus top 1 or 2 picks for years… there is prob some overvaluing going on.
I’d say Frazier is overvalued, hasn’t played to his “reputation” I guess you could say. But the one guy yanks should not trade is torres. According to many talent evaluators, he is very undervalued and could be a top 5 prospect in baseball when the mid season list is made.
Even with that said prospects are just that, they’re not proven at all. But if the yanks want to build a new young core I don’t see why they would trade for Quintana but if they are ready to trade some prospects then he’s the perfect guy.
Only reason to believe his numbers won’t be as good in NY is the fact that all other AL east parks are very hitter friendly other than the trop. While US Cellular is the only hitters park in the AL central. Could make a a big difference or not, haven’t looked at his stats in AL east parks yet
Start with Torres AND Frazier…..Probably have to add Rutherford, that will! Get you Quintana. Robertson’s pricetag will depend on how much money stays in Chicago……The more the tanks pick up the lesser the prospect. Yankee fans need to take off your blinders and realize that controllable, established, productive starting pitching with Q’s talent is gonna cost…..A LOT. The pirates are gonna have to start with Taillon, Bell or Meadows and a few other pieces just to get in the ballpark.
Sir give me the stuff you are smoking
Why would the Sox want betances now? What purpose does he serve a team that is tanking and at least 3-5 years away from contending? Rebuilding teams don’t start with bullpen upgrades…..They finish with them. Chicks have zero interest in betances right now.
Ohhhh my brotha testify! you nailed it right on the head. Here is another thing too, the rays arent trading archer to yankees. yankees dont want verlanders contract and greinkes either. no team does.
You didn’t even get that much for Sale, so why are you expect that for Quintana?
Really hope Yanks don’t make this trade, especially if White Sox are asking what is being thrown around in this thread.
Man the comment sections of these articles really crack me up. It’s always one side saying “Team A should trade for that really good player, but they shouldn’t have to give up any of their valuable pieces.” Meanwhile the other side claims that their teams’ player is worth only the best of Team A’s pieces.
There’s also always an underlying “Old School vs. Sabermetrics” debate thrown in, along with nasty jabs from both sides criticizing each others’ logic, and people taking on the identity of their teams by saying “we.”
The White Sox are not getting Betances in a trade. IF he’s involved at all, he’ll be going to a third team in the deal for additional prospects. As good as he is, and as much as he could bring at the deadline, it’s absolutely not worth the risk of him getting injured for the White Sox. Take all the high end prospects you can get now and go from there. It’d be way too big of a disaster if he was one of the headliners and got hurt or declined before they traded him. Not worth the risk, especially when you could get at least 1 really good prospect for him now instead of waiting until the deadline.
Also consider that even if they add Robertson to the deal, assuming Nate Jones stays healthy and pitches like he did last year, they’ll still have a VERY valuable commodity out of the bullpen come the trade deadline.
As a White Sox fan, I would be content with a deal of Quintana for either Torres/Frazier, Rutherford, Andujar, and a future bullpen piece. I think that would be a fair deal for both teams.
That’s pretty much the exact package that I mentioned last week. I don’t see them getting both Torres and Frazier, but I’d be shocked if they didn’t get one. I said it’d be something along the lines of:
Torres, Rutherford, Andujar, a backend top 20 arm with some upside
or
Frazier, Mateo, Andujar, a backend top 20 arm with some upside
Obviously a random guess, but those are both deals that’d make sense. That being said, I still prefer the top end prospects from the Pittsburgh and Houston farm systems.
I’m a Yankee fan. I’d say no way to Proposal A but Yes to proposal B. I agree they both make sense but I feel Rutherford is very undervalued and doesn’t get much attention thanks to Torres and Frazier.
If you don’t mind me asking, why do you like Houston’s better than NY?
Just personal preference mostly.
I like Frazier, but I’m not in love with him as a top-tier OF prospect like I am with Robles and Meadows (assuming he can stay healthy). I think he very well could be a really good everyday player at some point, and I’d be fine with him headlining a Quintana deal, but I don’t see his ceiling being as high as guys like the other 2 I listed.
I’m not anywhere near as high on Gleybar as most scouts (and MLB.com especially) appear to be. That being said, I’m going mostly off pure numbers – I don’t get to see him play anywhere near as much as some of these guys. Outside of a small sample in the AFL, I don’t see the production matching the hype at this point, especially if he can’t stick at short…
I don’t get the love for Mateo or Judge. I see Mateo as a Dee Gordon type of player, which absolutely has value, but I don’t see any star potential. Outside of his elite speed, nothing really stands out to me… As for Judge, I have little to no interest. I’d happily take him as a prospect on my team, but if he was one of the headliners in a deal, I wouldn’t be very happy.
I do like their next tier of players a lot though. Like you, I’m very high on Rutherford. Honestly, I like him better than Frazier as a prospect. Andujar is another guy that I like. Then they also have a few solid arms in Sheffield, Acevedo, and Kaprielian that I like. I don’t really see any of those arms being potential superstars, but I do like them.
As for Houston, I’m really mainly referring to Martes and Tucker when I say “top end prospects.” I think Martes has that top of the rotation potential, especially if he can continue to refine his changeup. As for Tucker, I think he’ll shoot up prospect rankings in no time. He was regarded as the best high school hitter in his draft class, and I’m buying into that bat 100%. I view him and Rutherford as similar prospects, although I prefer Tucker by a slight margin. That being said, I would love to have either one, especially as the secondary piece in any deal…
Like I said, it’s mostly personal opinion, and I could absolutely be 100% wrong. I find most of the top-end guys in the Yankee system to be a little overhyped versus their actual production SO FAR. But like I said, I don’t get to see these guys play all the time, so their rankings could absolutely be justified. I do really like that next tier of guys though.
I agree with you that i would prefer Houston’s package over the Yankees. Give me Tucker, Martes, and somebody in their Top 20 and i’m gravy. I think those guys have a bigger ceiling than the Yankee prospects.
My guess is the White Sox will want Frazier to front a deal for Q if the Yankees aren’t willing to do that then you move on. Something like Frazier, Rutherford, Sheffield, Acevedo should do it. The Yankee fans are crazy if they think they are getting Q without Frazier.
This is all classic fans of a team overvaluing their prospects. Hey, not meant to be an insult, as we all do it. We all want our cake and eat it too, right? Like I am sure it would be great for the Yankees to get Q without giving up Frazier or Torres. But, really, we all know that won’t happen. But then some people are doing mental gymnastics to claim Q is not as good or as valuable as he is to justify not wanting to part with the big name prospects. Let’s not parse the “ace” or “#1 or #2” business. We all know he is good and that the Sox’s asking price is high because of the age and contract. If he had one year left on the contract they would, obviously, expect less back. The trading of Sale and potential trading of Q are rare in it is not often players with their skill, age, and team-friendly contract are traded.
I’ve said it before elsewhere, there is no need to argue about what the package should be. The Sox have already shown everyone what they expect back based on the Sale and Eaton deals. A deal for Q (alone) would be not as good as the Sale deal but better than the Eaton deal. You may think that such a deal would not be in the best interest of your favorite team to make; fair enough. But if Q is going to be moved, that is the price. If no one wants to give that up, then we will be back here in July dealing with all of these rumors. Or next off season, etc.
oscar and bruin you guys bring up great points. I would settle for torres,rutherford,sheffield or judge and acevado or andujar. need more bats than arms at this point.
Q is a “mid-rotation guy” LOL
In 2016 AL, 10 teams did not have a starter with an ERA as good as Q (including the Sox, as in Q’s ERA was better than Sale’s)
In 2016 AL 9 teams did not have a starter with a FIP as good as Q.
In 2016 11 teams did not have a starter with a WAR as good as Q.
My math may have a slight error… but you get the point.
But he is only a #3 or #4 on a team, right? C’mon people
No thanks. The Yankees aren’t built to make a deep playoff run in 2017. You can keep Quintana. I’d rather keep and watch our prospects develop for more months.
I think it’s laughable that Torres, Frazier, Rutherford have to be a part of some 4 for 1 deal to acquire a pitcher who only has a ceiling as a #2. You give up that package to get your studs like Kershaw, Bumgarner, Sale, Scherzer etc. You don’t give that up to get soft tossing Quintana who did a good job pitching well against the Twins and some of the other weaker lineups.
You White Sox fans need to get off your high horse. Just because you fleeced the Nationals, doesn’t mean you’re going to rip off everyone.
If Yankees get Quintana he is instantly their most reliable starter! Keep in mind I did NOT say talented. That has to be worth more then a lot of you are saying. You have to value his talent and his contract. If you cannot see that then no need to argue. Just not ripping other teams off.
I don’t think you know who Jose Quintana is if you think he’s a “soft tosser.” Here’s some Fangraph’s pitch/fx data for you on the fastballs for the guys you listed.
Jose Quintana
MinVel: 87.9 – MaxVel: 95.2 – AvgVel: 92.0 (tied for 28th in the league…)
Clayton Kershaw
MinVel: 89.9 – MaxVel: 96.1 – AvgVel – 93.0
Madison Bumgarner
MinVel: 86.8 – MaxVel: 93.0 – AvgVel: 90.7
Chris Sale
MinVel: 89.1 – MaxVel: 98.1 – AvgVel: 93.0
Max Scherzer
MinVel: 89.4 – MaxVel: 97.9 – AvgVel: 94.3
No, he doesn’t have the top end speed that someone like Sale or Scherzer has (although he’s not as far behind as you’d think), but his avg fastball is in line with pretty much all the guys you mentioned, and it’s faster than Bumgarner’s by over 1 mph. So if you want to call him a “soft tosser,” I guess you can add a BUNCH of names to that list…
And no, that list of prospects you provided does not get you anywhere near any of the names you listed outside of maybe Sale, and you could still pretty easily argue in favor of the package the Red Sox gave up (although admittedly, it could go either way depending on preference).
But alas, every top Yankees prospect is probably going to turn into a superstar, so they should probably hold onto all of them instead of trading for a soft tosser.
As a Sox fan I can say I do not think the price is all three of those guys. But the point is there has to be a headliner (Frazier or torres) plus a real good second piece (Rutherford?) plus some others.
@kerplunk you are totally right. He did pitch well against the weaker lineups. Lets take a look at how he pitched against some of the stronger lineups shall we? When he faced Boston, Yankees, Blue Jays, Cleveland, Detroit, Texas, Seattle, Houston, and Mets. Of those 9 teams 7 of them ranked in the top half in batting statistics Boston (#1) Cleveland (#5) Seattle (#6) Texas (#7) Toronto (#9) Detroit (#11) Houston (#15) 5 of those teams made the playoffs (Boston, Toronto, Cleveland, Texas, NYM)
Quintana line vs BOS TOR DET TEX HOU NYM CLE NYY SEA:
IP: 117.2 H: 102 ER: 34 BB: 36 SO: 94 ERA: 2.61
But yeah he only pitches well against sub .500 teams Lets just not look at the facts and how he pitched against those 9 teams with a win % of .548 Also we should ignore the fact that 5 of those teams made the playoffs and one made it to the WS.
Lets just do it your way and look at his numbers against the Twins. Since that is all the matters in your eyes.
For the record, I think kerplunk is with you. Its the other guy that thinks he’s sitting on Mantle, DiMaggio, and jeter all over again. And we’re entering a whole new level of ny stupid if we’re going to introduce Jose Quintana as a “soft tosser”
If CWS are willing to pay most of Robertson’s salary over the next 2 years, I could see Dodgers giving up a decent prospect (Calhoun) to acquire him as a replacement for Blanton.
Make it Verdugo and Barnes.
With Tim Andersen and Yoan Moncada n the middle of the infield I don’t see the need for Torres, Swanson, or any other SS/2b prospect. We need outfielders, a 3rd baseman, and a catcher, in case Collins has to move to a corner infield position.
I think Frazier, Judge, Andujar and Sands would be a tempting combination.
Largely agree, but there’s always the possibility of shifting one of them or an incoming prospect to 3rd or Anderson to the outfield. Also, though it’s unlikely, Moncada could go bust like Buxton has so far or one of them could get hurt.
Braves get Quintana. Sox get Sean Newcomb, Mallex Smith and Touki Toussaint.
nahhhh . Tim anderson best defensive position is center field. Plus its no guarantee torres sticks at shortsop per scouting reports. a move to 3rd is possible. moncada can play 2nd,3rd or corner outfield. As far as your braves trade proposal nope! give me maitan, alex jackson, austin riley, and kolby allard and you have yourself a deal. I would love swanson but would settle for that.
Throw in Robertson and $15Million and it sounds good to me.
Not even in the same area code as enough. The only two Braves that could conceivably headline a trade for Q are Albies and Swanson, and the first would require a ton more. Smith is a dime a dozen glove first CF, Newcomb can’t find the plate, Toussaint is all ceiling no floor. Adds up to not much.
If the Braves want Quintana, they are gonna have to give up albies. I would think that Albies, one of Newcomb/Anderson/Allard and a position proapect like Riley or Jackson should get it done.And even then it might not be enough for Quintana.
Hope the Yankees will not sacrifice any of the prospects, which could form a new dynasty in the near future, for a temporary starter, who will probably want to test the free agent market again down the road. The Yankees now have a top five farm system, which could get even better if Severino, Headley and Gardner can be moved before Opening Day. The win now strategy is fine for GMs, who are willing to take that risk, but Steinbrenner already went through that phase and Hal does not want to repeat it. Cashman shouldn’t change his approach so far. The Yankees are now a sleeping giant. Wait until it wakes up!
A temporary starter who would want to test free agency again? Who are you talking about?
Quintana. Unless he is controllable for three or more years, trading the system for him would be universally stupid. There’s a reason why Cashman didn’t pursue any big name free agents. He knows the risks and would rather have other teams make that mistake.
Should probably do a little bit of quick research before making a comment like that… He’s controllable for 4 years at WELL BELOW market value…
He is controllable for 4 more seasons! Do some homework before you make comments like this.
Nah, it’s easier to make baseless claims like this guy (and countless other ny Yankee posters) did. It’s called NY stupid. Gotta talk about stuff they are clueless about, and baseball is the perfect forum for that- evidenced by the need to comment (erroneously, twice) in the comments section of an article that specifically details the contract of the player.
And now that he’s been informed of quintana’s contract duration (which meets his level of being controllable), he’ll chime in with “Quintana is a #3-4 innings eater” and that Yankees prospects are “untouchable” because they’re Yankees now.
If only the Yankees had a player like Jose Quintana in their system 6 years ago, we wouldn’t have to have this silly discussion. Oh wait…
Why would you trade severino now?
Because some team (hopefully not the White Sox) may still overvalue him based on his previous hype as a top-tier starting pitching prospect…
So tough to read these comments.
Quintana is a 1A. He’s not up there with Sale or Kershaw, but he’d be the best pitcher for more than 50% of the teams in the league. The Sox will – and should – get a huge haul for him. Does that mean the Yankees will pony up Torres or Frazier? No. The Yankees might not feel comfortable giving up either of those guys in a trade. But there’s very little chance the Yankees acquire W without paying that price.
Should the Sox lower their price tag? No. They hold all the cards and have no need to trade him right now. They can wait this out. Hell, the Astros didn’t think it was worth giving up Bregmann for Sale. The Nats didn’t think It was worth giving up Turner. But the Sox still found a team willing to give up a potential young star in Moncada – as well as a second potential stud pitcher. So even if it’s not the Yankees, the Sox will eventually find a trade partner for Q. And they’ll get a huge haul for him. But unless the Yanks are willing to pony up Torres or Frazier, there is zero chance he winds up in the Bronx.
You can’t put a guy with some big question marks (Moncada) on the same level as two former top prospects who have both had some really good success in the majors.
Moncada may very well be a star in the making, but unless he can harness the K’s and not at the expense of his power, then you have to question whether he’ll be able to really hit major league pitching.
Been A LOT of really good minor league hitting prospects never do dick in the majors. Heck, Jason Heyward was the number 1 prospect in baseball. BA Grade of 80, and he was highly touted because of his bat. Look at him now (or really, ever). Jesus Montero, Dominic Brown, Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak.
Point is, you have to give a significant edge to a top prospect who has shown he can hit MLB pitching, over a career minor leaguer, especially. I mean this when comparing prospects for the same “class” so to speak. Moncada/Bregman/Turner were all very highly regarded, but the Astros and Nats didn’t want to move their guys because they have shown just how good they can be at the highest level. Boston tried Moncada in the majors, and he clearly wasn’t ready. Joey Gallo would be really good if he could manage his K’s too.
The Price for Jose Quintana Should Also Be Sky High
fangraphs.com/blogs/the-price-for-jose-quintana-sh…
a package starting with that power hitting catcher
would be the starting point.. Red Sox fan….
Don’t understand why the White Sox don’t Offer Robertson to some teams and pick up 15 mill of the 25 owed and get a good prospect or 2 ………. It’s not like they added payroll this Winter ………..
Might be able to make a better deal in July, maybe? Why make a deal where you eat $15 mill when maybe some team is desperate for a quality bullpen arm at the trade deadline.
Mainly because Jerry Reinsdorf rarely if ever eats money in trades or releases of players. I could definitely be wrong but I don’t see that trend reversing now that the time has signaled rebuild, especially on an asset. Make no mistake about it: David Robertson is still an asset.
Also, white sox got nothin but time now. Especially relating to players on multi year contracts. Theyre far from being in a desperate situation, despite what some of the comments from pundits and posters might try to tell you
Jerry, both with the Sox and the Bulls, is not as cheap as many perceive him to be. That being said, it is true that is not something that happens often. So, it is entirely possible that if they can move Robertson w/o eating any of the contract that is what they will try to do.
Keep the prospects. Kapreilian coming soon also could help pitching and Sheffield.
The White Sox will get their haul. Some team will jump.
It’s too bad that Bowden reported earlier that the white sox and pirates have been trying “all day” to get the Yankees involved in this deal with either McCutchen or Robertson heading to NY.
According to him the Yankees are unwilling to acquire either player. So this is all posturing on the part of the White Sox to get the Pirates to blink and the Yankees won’t play along. Just like the Astros wouldn’t for Quintana.
Quintana is not sale he’s a mid rotation .500 or slightly better pitcher.
Talking about his win% completely invalidates your opinion. Defining him as mid rotation is laughable.
Mid rotation guys are not top 10 in their league in WAR, ERA, WHIP, and FIP. this past season AND top 10 in their league in WAR, ERA, and FIP the previous season. And on and on we go. Baseball is a wonderful game in that there are things called statistics that are very useful for providing information about how good a player is.
If you were building a team and needed to think short-term (contend in 2017) and long-term (be competitive for several seasons) Jose Quintana has tons of value. Because of that it will cost a lot. Additionally, since the Sox do not have to trade him, they have the leverage. Its not like if they don’t move him over the winter they lose him.
The fact that you are talking about a pitchers win % shows that you know absolutely nothing about baseball or evaluating someones talent.
It’s a classic case of if the shoe were on the other foot. Quintana would be an ace and perennial cy young candidate (which to some degree is true- as supported by your statistics) and he’d be untouchable. But since he’s not on the Yankees (anymore), he’s mediocre. Or so ive been told over and over for the past week.
Here is all you need to know:
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&…
Tanaka is an ACE, Quintana is a #2 or #3, can’t you tell?
Don’t need to tell me. (And posting a fangraphs link to anyone who references win % is a useless gesture, but I applaud you for trying to make the world a better place)
In what world is Tanaka an Ace and Q is not?
I *think* that was sarcasm… Hard to tell sometimes, but that’s my gut feeling.
I think the yankees should just get Robertson. He wont cost as much as quintana and with hime the yankees could have a dangerous betances, robertson, chapman for 7, 8 and 9th inning.
And since he has two more years he will probably help us in 2018 when the young players (Sheffield, Kapprielan, Torres, Judge, Frazier, Snachez) are all in the majors.
@kerplunk you are totally right. He did pitch well against the weaker lineups. Lets take a look at how he pitched against some of the stronger lineups shall we? When he faced Boston, Yankees, Blue Jays, Cleveland, Detroit, Texas, Seattle, Houston, and Mets. Of those 9 teams 7 of them ranked in the top half in batting statistics Boston (#1) Cleveland (#5) Seattle (#6) Texas (#7) Toronto (#9) Detroit (#11) Houston (#15) 5 of those teams made the playoffs (Boston, Toronto, Cleveland, Texas, NYM)
Quintana line vs BOS TOR DET TEX HOU NYM CLE NYY SEA:
IP: 117.2 H: 102 ER: 34 BB: 36 SO: 94 ERA: 2.61
But yeah he only pitches well against sub .500 teams Lets just not look at the facts and how he pitched against those 9 teams with a win % of .548 Also we should ignore the fact that 5 of those teams made the playoffs and one made it to the WS.
Lets just do it your way and look at his numbers against the Twins. Since that is all the matters in your eyes.
I am not sure if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not or what? I never said to look at just his number against a specific team, such as the Twins. And I also think a 2.61 ERA vs those 9 teams is pretty damn good.
He referenced the wrong person from the conversation. jvmillion83, whom you responded to in the original string of posts, made the claim that Quintana pitched well against the “Twins and some of the weaker lineups.”
My apologies. Supposed to be a rebuttal to jvmillion83 comment about only having success against the Twins and weaker lineups. Sorry for the confusion.
Its OK.. It happens no worries.
Quintana and Robertson for Judge, Gardner, Park and 5 Mil.
No way. If you are going to add Park, Giolito or Lopez need to be coming back with Robertson and Quintana.
A guy who struck out 120 times in 435 at-bats commands an ace and an ace-like prospect? I’m praying both of you are trolling because they’re both absolutely ridiculous deals…
Wow we have drooped to new lows if you think that is a real proposal by the Yankees. That would be such a bad offer that the White Sox would probably block all Yankees calls from then on because they are not serious at all about getting Q. I really do hope this is trolling or Sarcasm because I haven’t seen a worse proposal in some time.
I just think it’s funny how yankees fans over rate their prospects.
Clint Frazier was startin to be called a failed prospect and a dissapoint menu in Cleveland and he gets traded to the yankees and all of the sudden people are calling him untouchable lol.
Torres was traded for half a year of chapman. So how would he be untouchable for 4 years of as all you yankees fans are saying “an ace”
Not one of your top prospects has even succeeded at the minor league level in a ball yet.. Mookie betts, benitendi, moncada, bogaerts were actual prospects. They tore up the minor leagues. Your top prospects are hitting 270 in a ball, Torres/Mateo if they actually become mlb players optimistic projections would put them as not even that much of an upgrade to Castro/gregorious. I mean seriously. What’s the upgrade there?
Judge is complete garbage and will end up continuing his long minor league carear at some point.
Looking at Torres numbers..
501 total at bats in high A
Roughly 270 batting average or 267
11 home runs
21 stolen bases and 14 caught stealing
117 strike outs
That’s in A ball, how is he untouchable? You have no idea whether this kid pans out let alone contributes to a great team in 2 years.
And that’s your best prospect, an a ball player who has little power and hits 267 in 500 at bats.
Then if you look at Mateo and Frazier it gets worse…
I think that the Pirates are the key in this situation because if they are trying to win before Cole and McCutchen are free agents, i think they can offer the White Sox the best package. In my opinion, I think the best deal for both teams is:
Quintana and Robertson (with WS picking up at least 50% of contract if not more) for Meadows, Newman, Keller, and a lower level prospect (bullpen arm?)
I wouldn’t be upset at that deal as a White Sox fan. Not blown away by it by any means, but I could definitely live with it.
The best package that the Yankees can give for Quintana and Robertson would be Judge, Mateo, Sheffield, Tyler Wade, and Chad Green and WS paying 50% of Robertson’s remaining contract.
Ew
The White Sox have enough career minor league OF….they won’t want Judge.
Then the Yanks aren’t getting Q. The White Sox aren’t going to just settle. It’s fine if they want to offer a subpar package but I think we see that Hahn isn’t going to settle a subpar package.
If I’m the White Sox, I hold onto Quintana. Why not hold him until June or next offseason ? He’s cheap and a 200 inning quality starter.
I’m probably crazy, but if I’m the Yankees. I offer Rutherford, Sheffield and McKinney. If that doesn’t do it. Walk away.
Just reading through all the comments…I have to laugh! Is Q a number 1,2,3 etc etc. Well you have to look at it like this: on a team with Sale….Q is the #2 in the rotation, with a pitching staff like KC currently has….he is no doubt the #1.
Is Q an innings eater? Yes you can depend on him to eat up innings every time he takes the hill but he is not a “traditional inning eater” like Volquez or Kennedy who carries a higher ERA & gives you 6-8 innings.
Stats are stats….they change yearly so 1 good year for a pitcher doesn’t instantly make him a #1. But if a pitcher is consistent from year to year like Q has been then in all likelihood he should be the 1-2 depending on the pitching staff of the team. If I were a ML Owner/GM/Coach & had the resources to get Q then there is no doubt I would be all over that like a fat kid on a cupcake….he instantly makes a good/decent rotation very good.
He is an ace on a slight below average rotation. If Quintana is your true ace I don’t think you have a top ten rotation .
For example if you put him on the redsox right now he is probably a 3 or 4 in that rotation. Probably 3 in Washington, 3 or 4 on the mets, 3 on the cubs, he’s a 2 on Detroit, dodgers, cardinals, maybe giants
For example for the past 3 seasons Quintana has consistently been between 15-20 th overall for the season as a pitcher, by era, cy young voting considering both leagues and probably many other stats. That means on any given year he pitches as the 15-20th best pitcher. If you are matching up with another team in the playoffs and your ace had 15 to 20 pitchers pitch better that season then chance are it is not a favorable match for you.
It would be steal for the Yankees to get Q for any two prospects they have or Betances and just one of their prospects.. He’s a better pitcher than some realize and he’ll likely be even better over the coming years which is what the trade should really be about.. Big difference pitching for the CWS the past few years (hitters leauge/division, hitters park, poor defensive team, poor to horrific bullpen)..than most other places/teams.
Lots of things get to the papers. That doesn’t mean their true. Washington supposedly wouldn’t put Giolito in any trade including ones for Chris Sale or AM., Then he’s only 1 of 3 guys for Eaton.. Name prospects are always overrated by fans generally, and in particular the fanbase of the team which holds them. It’s in the interest of GMs to play to this. Reality is that Torres was traded for 2 months of Chapman. Cubs aren’t stupid and he’s the same guy now he was then.. He may be a star, but usually a highly rated prospect becomes a good ML player, not a star (sometimes not even that).