The Marines and Rays have announced a swap of right-handed pitchers, with Erasmo Ramirez heading back to Seattle and Steve Cishek going to Tampa Bay in return.
Seattle will reportedly also send $1MM to Tampa Bay to help account for the differences in the salaries of the two players. Cishek is earning $6MM this year before reaching free agency, while Ramirez carries a $3.125MM annual salary and can be controlled for two more years via arbitration.
Both teams are pressing for a postseason berth — indeed, they could end up fighting one another for Wild Card position in the American League. This deal, then, appears mostly to be a lateral move designed to meet the particular needs of each organization.
Ramirez, 27, has functioned as a swingman for the Rays since coming over from Seattle before the 2015 season. Now, he’ll head back to his original organization to provide another rotation option. He’ll also represent a potential part of the staff through 2019.
[Related: Updated Tampa Bay Rays and Seattle Mariners depth charts]
While Ramirez carries only a 4.80 ERA on the year, and has worked mostly from the pen over the past two campaigns, he has mostly been himself in 2017. The positive areas (7.1 K/9, 2.1 BB/9, 48.6% groundball rate) are on par with Ramirez’s career figures, and the problems (1.30 HR/9) are familiar. His velocity and swinging-strike rate sit right at career averages.
If and when his 63.8% strand rate normalizes, Ramirez will likely settle back into being a useful back-end starter or solid long-relief arm. And that’s what the M’s will need from him to stay in contention down the stretch. Seattle has cycled through starters for much of the year and still has an uncertain rotation mix. It’ll be interesting to see whether the club continues exploring the market for starters.
Of course, that came at a cost, as the Mariners will sacrifice a solid late-inning option in Cishek. That’s just what the Rays have been searching for, with the team perhaps more willing to part with Ramirez with a variety of rotation options at or near the MLB level.
Since returning from hip surgery, Cishek has given the Mariners twenty frames of 3.15 ERA ball. But there are some worrying signs when you look below the surface. Cishek has managed just 6.8 K/9 on a career-low 7.5% swinging-strike rate. His velocity has dropped significantly. And he’s permitting 1.35 homers per nine on a 23.1% HR/FB rate.
Despite the concerns, the Rays will hope that Cishek can continue to be a force against right-handed hitters. He has always been less effective against southpaws, and perhaps now more than ever will be best utilized situationally, but the Rays have enough late-inning options that they won’t need to use Cishek in a strictly defined role.
Jon Morosi of MLB.com (via Twitter) first said the deal was close, with MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand (Twitter link) adding that it was Cishek who’d go in return for Ramirez. Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune suggested on Twitter that the swap was fully agreed to, while ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter links) had the financial element.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Erasmo going back home.
have to wonder though if this is a prelude to Honeywell coming up in the pen.
wonder if Seattle stretches him back out for the rotation. at the very least it’s good cause they need a multi inning piece.
Honeywell should by no means go to the pen. He should be in the rotation, taking over Austin Pruitt’a spot (tonight’s starter). He will have a Matt Moore type impact down the stretch
I think his suggestion would be as a way of protecting innings…David Price had an impact out of the bullpen in 2008
bingo but also that’s likely the rays thinking. otherwise why would he not be up already?
Good question…my guess would be that they probably want to give him at least a few more starts for extra seasoning or something, and because they’d want to see if they have anymore bullpen additions before they’d promote him just to use him as a reliever if it isn’t necessary
vxvxcvxcvxcv
Just another mediocre pitcher we don’t need and one we don’t need back after trading him a few seasons ago.
Yeah I don’t get the love for him either.
Interesting. Concept of contenders trading with each other seldom occurs but can really be effective. Maybe we’re looking at Erasmo Ramirez and Tim Beckham/Brad Miller for a bullpen piece
The Marines? Didn’t realize they were fielding an MLB club this year. Exciting!
lol nice catch
Rikki tikki tavi, biiiiiiiatch!!
Please… someone stop DiPoto before he strikes again. He’s in full Trade-DHD mode now, and can’t stop. Erasmo is only good as a multi-inning reliever; if Gallardo or Moore is on the mound, the M’s now have a “partner” since neither gives a lot of length, especially Gallardo. But it does NOT solve the M’s biggest problem: the rotation. They need 1, if not 2, GOOD starters, Controllable is one thing, GOOD is another, and DiPoto seems to fail to realize that his window of opportunity is shrinking. He already wasted one of his best trade chips in O’Neill to get a “controllable” pitcher in Gonzales (consensus on him is: #5 or #6 starter now), instead of using him to get a legit #2-#4 starter for the M’s rotation. This is another “what the… ?” trade, The new ownership in Seattle had better put a leash on this puppy; he’s liable to trade the bat boy next…
I’m trying to understand how Cishek is worth Erasmo. You seem to dislike this. I know nothing of Cishek, he seems mediocre and his innings are few. Is he good?
Cishek can be VERY good at times, especially because he has a sidearm/underarm delivery that can be very deceptive. He was the M’s closer for the first half of 2016, until he lost his control and Edwin Diaz stepped in. Cishek missed time at the beginning of this season due to a hip problem (which seems to be endemic for sidearmers because of the unique delivery), but has been effective when used early in the game (6th/7th innings.)
Erasmo was a Mariners farmhand for a long time. He came up through the system as an elite-level control pitcher; he barely walked anyone during his time in the minors. But he was never able to duplicate that success in the bigs with the M’s, so when he was out of options, the M’s traded him to the Rays for another out-of-options pitcher, Mike Montgomery. See “Trade-DHD” for what happened to Montgomery (Dan Vogelbach… more like VogelBLECCCH.)
Cishek is a free agent at the end of the season, Ramirez is still arbitration eligible. That’s really the crux of this deal. DiPoto keeps going for “controllable” over “good”, which may be irrelevant, as he may not be around to “control” these pitchers after the fact, given his current level of performance.
This trade is equivalent to shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic; looks nice, but the ship is still going to sink. DiPoto can claim all he wants that this trade will help the team, but until he addresses the primary need, it’s a waste of his time and the fans’ money.
Cishek is NOT good and has been getting by with smoke and mirrors. He struggles versus lefties and hasn’t been great against righties. He has enjoyed the excellent M’s outfield defense to save him many times. I know most Mariner fans cringe a little when he comes in to a game as its going to typically be a runner or two on and hoping he can get out of it.
Explain how the window is shrinking. Almost all of our offensive assets (Gamel, Heredia, Haniger, Seager, Segura & Cano) are locked up for at least six years. Felix & Cruz are the only guys hitting free agency in the next 1-2 years. I think our window is more like 6 seasons.
Cano is 34. Cruz is 36, going on 37, and is a free agent after next season. Seager and Segura are decent anchor pieces, but those 2 are really the “heart” of the team’s production, and when they are gone/less effective (coming up quick), the M’s don’t have any real depth on the major league or minor league rosters to replace them. The 3 outfielders are “nice”, but none is going to hit 25+ HR’s at the major league level. This kid Evan White that they drafted to be the future 1B is the second coming of Dustin Ackley, and a poor fit given his position. The National League style of play doesn’t work in a division with the power-laden Astros and Rangers. Anyone notice that the M’s surge last year coincided with the fact that they added POWER HITTERS to the lineup? They let Lind, Lee, Smith, and Gutierrez without replacing the power. And now they are sub-.500. That’s not a coincidence.
As for the pitching, Paxton is the only sure thing we have, though he always misses 4-6 weeks with some nagging injury; he needs to figure out a way to stay healthy. Felix must adapt to his velocity loss (something he has had a lot of problems with) or he’s toast. Iwakuma will probably never pitch for the Mariners again. Same for Smyly. Miranda has done an admirable job filling in with all the injuries, but he’s worn down and been exposed; he’s a gopher-ball pitcher with extreme home-road splits. Gallardo was a horrible trade to begin with. Moore and Gaviglio and Bergman are below-replacement level pitchers at this point; for all his talk about “depth”, we had none when we needed it. And there’s no immediate help coming from the farm. Mr. DiPoto has completely eschewed the free agent market (he only signed TWO major league free agents last winter: Rzepczynski and Fien), so who knows how he will fill those gaps next year.
The minor league cupboard is basically barren. Kyle Lewis is all we really have, and he’ll probably go in the next 4 days to get a mediocre starting pitcher that won’t help us get to the Wild Card this year.
In other words, this team HAS to win in this season or next or, like in Game of Thrones, Winter is Coming… and it will be VERY VERY cold for a long time.
It’s absolutely mind boggling to me the way people talk about Gamel, Haniger and Heredia. Like these guys are top 10 prospects or have been hitting consistently for years.
Yes, all three have been solid at some point this year but these are small sample sizes and all three could fall off the face of the earth at any given moment. If Haniger is as good as people act like he is, you really think the D-Backs would just “throw him in” the Walker deal? Unless Bill Bavasi is secretly running the show in Arizona, I highly doubt that. .The thought process of trading Tyler O’Neil because of their “emergence” is baffling to say the least.. Just because your minor league system is already terrible doesn’t justify making it even worse, Dipshito is like a 14 year old running a fantasy baseball team…..
Every year the Mariners think they are one or two pieces away and that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Evan White = Dustin Ackley=Jeremy Reed.
And Winter has been coming for the Mariners a LOT longer than in Westeros….ha.
I am a neeeeeerd.
Both Cano and Cruz were signed as free agents. With them coming off the books, it seems they would have money to sign a couple free agents to replace them. If I am missing something, please explain.
Good thing you’re not our GM.
Moore has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he can be a starter at the MLB level. He’s getting brutalized thus far. Gallardo’s no longer a capable starter at the MLB level. We shouldn’t be thinking about pairing them up with a long reliever; we should be replacing them.
There is absolutely no point to chasing the playoffs this year. We’re not catching the Astros and it’s not worth using assets to try and make a one game playoffs, especially when it’s likely to be against the Yankees. A rental’s absolutely out of the question.
To get a starter that’s both very good and controllable beyond this year is a costly proposition. Look at what’s being requested for Sonny Gray. We don’t have what it takes to be a buyer there. This isn’t fantasy; it’s the real world. I’m sure Jerry shares your desire to get multiple very good starters who are controlled past this year. He can’t wave a magic wand to make it happen. He has to have a deep farm system from which to draw. We don’t have one.
O’Neill is not a great prospect. Like most fans, you overrate your own farm system. Forget about the rankings. Remember – Jesus Montero was “the #1 prospect in all of baseball” at one point. He’s a decent prospect that most likely won’t hit enough to stay in the majors. Power’s of no use if you can’t make contact.
Remember also that depth matters. Look at the rotation pieces DiPoto’s picked up in Miranda, Gonzales, and Ramirez. I’ll agree they’re not great, but aside from them, who’s in the rotation in 2018 besides Paxton and Felix? You throw a Moore or Gallardo in there who runs a 6+ ERA, that’s a huge downgrade from a back of the rotation guy who can put up a 4-5 ERA.
This is a great trade. Cishek has no value to the Mariners. They have plenty of as good or better bullpen arms. DiPoto converted an asset with no value into something of value. Don’t complain that it’s not enough. If you keep making enough trades that incrementally improve the team, eventually it moves the needle. Do that along with drafting well and that’s how you build a good team. You need elite players at below market prices to be a great team, and the only way to do that is via the draft.
Cishek isn’t very good, has benefitted from the M’s outfield defense, and is a FA at years end. Ramirez’s ERA isn’t good but the rest of his stats show that he should be head back towards his norms in a larger sample size. Additionally he is controllable for two more years. My guess is that they view Ramirez is a guy that can take the long relief role and that they will move Pagan into Cisheks role…which he has clearly earned.
By the way, we all know we need a starter in a perfect world. That doesn’t mean that you don’t make moves that make sense for the team just because they aren’t built around a starter.
Ultimately, this move doesn’t really move the needle much either way, but it makes sense in the bigger picture.
Miguel Cabrera and raisel iglesias is what m’s need.
Cabrera hasn’t hit any better than Valencia this year, if they really want to upgrade first base, they’ll go after Joey Votto.
Trading pending free agent for control. Nothing else to see here.
Cishek for Ramirez is a done deal. Looks good for both sides. Could see the Dodgers doing something like this with Brandon Morrow for a lefty reliever
Morrow stays, he’s a stud that throws 100 mph gas. We have a deep farm and a lot of blocked positions, so we can use those chips.
Cishek is making 6 million and fallen behind Diaz Phelps Scrabble Pazos and Zych in the bullpen hierarchy. He’s currently worse than Pagan as well. He’s shaky at best, TB better not hope for him to be mr 8th inning lockdown. That being said, Erasmo sucks.
Erasmo is valuable. He can be a solid #5. Could be a good addition.
Erasmo is better than Gallardo
If we could only get someone to take him off our hands….
Rays have been busy.
They really aren’t sacrificing a solid late inning option though. He is solid, but in the late innings we have Phelps, Zych (2.14 ERA), Vincent (1.91 ERA) and then Diaz obviously.
He enlisted in the Marines?
Umm, Dipoto. We need a decent SP. Moore and Gallardo are the 4th and 5th starters, but they are inconsistent, and Gallardo looks much better pitching in the BP.
I know Mr. Stanton is so cheap, but he promised us the fans playoffs this year, win-now mode! So let him keep his word and get us a real decent SP, please!
Moore and Gallardo aren’t inconsistent. They’re not good.
A GM’s job isn’t to fulfill the owner’s wishes. It’s to give ownership a solid dose of reality from someone who knows the game very, very well, and that’s what Jerry’s doing. The Astros have a huge lead in the division. Sure, we have a shot at a one game playoff, but you’d be insane to move assets to try and make that via rentals. It’s a fool’s errand. He’d be wasting assets.
Stay patient. Championship teams are build over the long haul, not with short term thinking. Jerry’s not making sexy moves, but he’s making smart ones.
I do get what you are saying, sir. However, it has been 16 years the fans have been waiting just to get to the WC. And here, we are standing again to see if have to wait again for one more year or longer. I just wrote this out of my frustration.
Get a clue…the Mariners are running their highest payroll in history at nearly $160M..that is not being cheap. Just because this trade isn’t for a starter doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to get one. You don’t just stop working to improve the team, even if it is by a small margin, because you have another need.
I get the clue, man. I am just saying we really need a decent SP before the trade deadline. Without strong starters, any team in the MLB would have hard time winning to get to the postseason, no matter how strong their offenses are.
If the Twins turn around and flip Garcia while eating his entire contract, that’s a good move. Him and Straily are the guys I would target. It allows you to likely keep the top couple prospects, and just grab a consistent starter, albeit not a TOR one. I know Straily is allegedly off the market now, but everyone is always on the market for the right price.
I’ll give it to DiPoto he makes trades like it’s fantasy baseball. Hope they all work out eventually.
The M’s save money, and get a live arm. Not much more to it than that. Doesn’t make the team better or worse.
The deal is a wash cash wise, as the M’s included money to cover their prorated salaries.
They don’t save money, they are paying the salary difference, but agree that it really isn’t a deal that really moves the needle either direction.
Seems like a good trade for both sides since Cishek is a free agent and Ramirez isnt great but controllable.
I like this for Seattle
I would MUCH rather have 2 years of Ramirez than 2 months of Cishek
Cishek is a lot like Fernando Rodney (and the little girl with the curl) – when he’s good he’s very, very good, and when he’s bad he’s horrid. Rays have to be prepared for the horrid outings that come outta nowhere with this guy.
Rays all over these trades, not huge trades, but enough to make a team better for a Wild card race