With Shohei Ohtani’s trip to the open market approaching, the phenom’s agent sent a memo on Friday to all major league teams requesting written explanations in both English and Japanese on why they’d be the right fit for the right-handed ace/left-handed slugger, as the Associated Press first reported.
Ohtani’s lead representative, Nez Balelo of CAA Sports, told teams not to include financial terms of a potential contract in their answers. But with Ohtani’s Japanese organization, the Nippon Ham Fighters, primed to post him as early as Dec. 1, Balelo informed major league clubs that he’d like to receive their responses as soon as possible.
Here’s a rundown of the memo’s specifics, courtesy of Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times:
- “An evaluation of Shohei’s talent as a pitcher and/or a hitter;
- “Player development, medical, training and player performance philosophies and capabilities;
- “Major League, Minor League, and Spring Training facilities;
- “Resources for Shohei’s cultural assimilation;
- “A detailed plan for integrating Shohei into the organization;
- “Why the city and franchise are a desirable place to play;
- “Relevant marketplace characteristics.”
While nothing listed above is particularly surprising, it’s the first real look at the factors that will influence the ballyhooed Ohtani’s decision when he officially becomes free to sign with any major league team. Thanks to the rules in the collective bargaining agreement, the 23-year-old Ohtani will have to sign an inexpensive minor league contract this offseason, and the fact that there’s a fairly even financial playing field figures to lead to interest from every big league team. It’s worth noting, though, that the Rangers, Yankees, Twins, Pirates, Marlins and Mariners are entering the Ohtani sweepstakes in the most advantageous positions in terms of international bonus pool space.
Of those six clubs, the Rangers, Yankees and Mariners have had the most success reeling in Japanese stars in the past, which may help in their attempts to win the Ohtani sweepstakes, but this is setting up to be either a 30-team battle royale or something close to it. The major league franchise that outdoes the other 29 in courting Ohtani will have to pay a maximum $20MM posting fee to his Japanese team, though that’s a relative pittance to secure a potential two-way superstar who could dramatically alter an organization both on and off the field.
I don’t know much about Ohtani but can he play outfield?
He can play right field
Yeah, you can make alot of money camming from home and taking off all your clothes, especially women
Can she play right field or is she just a catcher?
Bazinga!
Why do I seem to get an error message when I try to report – gesucaja8787 – as a spammer.
After seeing 15 posts by this idiot, isn’t it time to delete the account?
I think they deleted him friend. more room now for the real baseball guys. thanks for reporting him pal.
I get it as will…frustrating
Tuna 411………My Report went through…..hopefully others will too.
He last played LF in 2014. He isn’t good at playing defense.
It’s very unlikely that a team will use him in the outfield. It’s like putting Nori Aoki in LF, you’re cringing when you watch him in the field. In Otani’s case, you’re hoping he doesn’t get hurt, that’s why you’re cringing.
On top of that, pitching as at such a premium. Teams will do everything they can to protect their pitchers. It may turn out that all 30 teams see him as a pitcher and are unwilling to risk giving him the opportunity to bat even if that’s his preference.
“It may turn out that all 30 teams see him as a pitcher and are unwilling to risk giving him the opportunity to bat even if that’s his preference.” If that happens, which is highly doubtful he can simply re-sign with the Fighters. He was close to signing with LAD out of HS until the Fighters offered to let him pitch and hit.
If no teams are willing to use him as a pitcher, one team will change their mind and let him do both if it will help them sign him. I’d rather have Ohtani be a dual player with the risk of getting hurt than not have Ohtani at all, wouldn’t you?
I’m not arguing my desire. I’m stating that in a day when offense is in such abundance and premium is so scarce, everyone sees him as a pitcher. On top of that, I’m hypothesizing that all teams don’t see the reward outweighing the risk of letting him player two-way other than being lie to separate from other teams.
That’s why the giants are probably out, can’t pay big money for him and the rotation is not a top priority.
I guess the only comaprison you can make is Deion Sanders in football, playing offense and defense? He was a hall of famer as a defender, but make a couple few splash plays on offense with limited opportunities.
Deion was also a All Star baseball player, but we still havent seen anything like this since Babe Ruth? Doesn’t mean it can’t happen again because obciously it has happened before.
I get tired of heaing all “Well we don’t want him to get hurt playing OF” is ridiculous. More tissue injuries can happen running out plays batting or by getting hit by a pitch batting as they can by him playing the outfield on a limited basis. Bo Jackson did eventually get hurt playing football, but he was still an All Star in baseball and football. Had to let him do his things and we all loved watching it.
You give Ohtani every opportunity to maximize both skills. He is not like anyone else so you can’t compare or use numbers or training schedules in the same way. With getting him signed and having the 6 years of control, I’m sure that is an ample amount of time to figure out which skills translates better for that particular team. Its not like its a financial gamble at all because he wont be a free agent til he is 30
Bingo!
If he comes to play for the Jays, we’ll even let him play with a kite in the outfield or bunnies in the dugout if he wants.
This is why I think that most teams will come up with some way to utilize his hitting skills, the odds of every team saying “no” is probably nil, especially for AL teams, so you may as well let it all hang out and try to at least come up with a plan for using his bat.
The Giants were among the three teams most hot in pursuit of him when he was coming out of HS, them and Rangers and Dodgers. I can’t believe that they have lost any interest given how well he has played, plus they sent execs out to Japan to scout him.
Money is not a big deal to them at this point, $20M posting fee they can handle, and can only pay $300K bonus (he’s not looking for big money from teams, anyway, as the most anyone else can pay is $.5M; meanwhile, he’s expected to net $20M+ in endorsements).
The Giants rotation is always a priority, that’s their strategy for winning since they moved on from Bonds. And they have a spot open, heck, any team in the majors would open a spot for him, even if their starting rotation was not a priority, Ohtani’s that good.
“he’s expected to net $20M+ in endorsements” Source? In 2017 Posey topped all MLB player with $4mm/year in endorsements. Where are the supposed endorsements coming from? He already has a ton in Japan and while he may get more there he is not going to be getting a huge windfall here…not like you are mentioning
It’s nothing like Nori Aoki – that’s a racist comparison.
Say what now?
“I don’t know much about Ohtani but can he play outfield?” He hasn’t played in the field since 2014 and that was only 8 games. In 2013 he played 51 in RF and 5 in LF
Dodgers proposal to Ohtani and his agent:
Pitching:
The Dodgers can be careful his first year by utilizing a 6 man rotation with Kershaw, Hill, Wood, Maeda, Ryu ,Ohtani.
(Starts) & Innings pitched 2017′: Kershaw (27) 175, Hill (25) 135.2, Wood (25) 152.1, Maeda (25) 134.1, Ryu (24) 126.2
The most starts that Ohtani has had in a season in Japan is (25) with 160 innings pitched,
This falls right in line with how Dodgers utilize starting or manage their pitching staff. Limiting starter innings while playing matchups and utilizing strong bullpen to avoid 3d time through an opponents batting order.and keeping starter fresh throughout season for playoff runs. Manipulation of 10-day DL
So you offer 20 starts pitching with an 140 innings limit. When he is near the 140 innings plateau, he can move to the bullpen especially in the playoffs in which he can become a bridge to Jansen or similar to his fellow country man Kenta Maeda in which he was used this past post season.. So you keep Ohtani within his previous innings and starts while he gets acclimated to MLB hitters and is coming off of surgery.
Hybrid PH/OF:
The most PA’s Ohtani has had in Japan is 382. Ohtani could possibly break the MLB all time AB’s by a pinch hitter this season. Not only could he get an easy 70 AB’s pinch hitting, but when he is utilized as a hybrid pinch hitter especially considering double switch opportuniteis? So add another 40+ AB’s double swithing to OF late in games.
Ample opportunites in double switches shouldn’t be a problem for Ohtani by going on how the Dodgers used their bench or platton splits with their OF”s in 2017′
*One important note this season is that there are an extra 4 OFF DAYS on the schedule this year which will help Ohtani.
Playing 28-56 games in the OF:which would be on par to what he played in Japan in the OF in 2013 (51)
If Ohtan starts left field ONLY ONCE EVERY 7 GMS, he gets 28 starts,with 4 AB’s (*112)
If Ohtani starts left field ONLY 2X EVERY 7 GMS, he gets 56 starts 4 AB’s (*224) ***Note that this is every 7 games and not every 7 days. This is where the extra off days on the schedule is important***
For those that say Ohtani will only be available for 3 gms a week to play OF or DH after he pitches saying he will need rest a day before and after he pitches this is why you keep him on a 7 game schedule and not weekly schedule playing OF. Thus he will be fresh when he pitches and still have ample AB oppurtunities. He will have his regular 5 days rest or more when he pitches with a bullpen session in between. The Dodgers did manipulate their 10-day DL as well.
TOTAL AB’s possible for Ohtani with Dodgers in 2018′
70 as pinch hitter + 40 double swithing + 112-224 playing OF + 50 when he pitches = 272 to 384
384 PA’s for the Dodgers in 2018. The most PA’s Ohtani had in Japan was 382 PA’s
The most games played in a year by Ohtani in Japan 104 with another 20 starts pitching equalling 124 games.
By offering 20 starts pitching, 70 gms pinch hitting and 30-40 games utilizing double switch = around 120-130 games played for the Dodgers in 2018′
Outliers:
Dodgers are a iconic big market, high payroll, sabermetric/analytical team that just went to the WS, Won 5 straight division titles, great chemistry & depth with a strong belief or philosophy in versatility, strong defensively (especially pitch framing), won MLB best 104 games, led MLB in attendance, have a deep farm system, Dedicated fan base, LA shorter trip to Japan, Agent is in LA, High Japanese population in LA, Manager is half Japanese, LA weather, Dodger stadium is a pitcher’s ballpark, Clayton Kershaw is one of his heroes, Great history with Japanese players in LA (Nomo, Maeda) Yu Darvish played with the Dodgers and is a great friend of Ohtani, Dodgers almost signed Ohtani as a teen and there will be ample marketing opportunities for Ohtani in LA.
From a Player development standpoint: Ohtani can look on how Dodgers have developed Clayton Kershaw, monitored Julio Urias development even though he got hurt. Jansen’s development into one of games top closers, Developing Chris Taylor or Justin Turner into one of mlb’s best defensive/offensive players, Cory Seager & Cody Bellinger being developed in to back to back ROY winners. Yasiel Puig’s development, developing best catching prospects in MLB while having two of the best catchers defensively (pitch framing)+offensively (Grandal & Barnes) in MLB
I think it is fair to limit his usage as a pitcher and hitter with similar usage that he had in Japan in order to see the change or difference in how his skills, stats translates to mlb. From then on the Dodgers can get a clearer picture on how they will either maximize pitching or hitting.
In conclusion, Ohtani can check off almost every category if he wants to hit & pitch in MLB wth the Dodgers (120-130 gms) Ace #2 starter, bullpen arm, Outfielder, bench hybrid pinch hitter. The Dodger 25 to 40 man roster is littered with players that can play multiple position and have versatility. Ohtani fits right in with the Dodgers overall philosophy: VERSATILITY & VALUE
That is well thought out. The only possible draw back could eventually be money. LA is restricted to $300K. He has been quoted as saying “As long as I have enough money to be able to play baseball and am enjoying baseball, that’s all I’m asking for right now.”
He made about $2mm in Japan last year and lived frugally but housing and transportation was provided by the team. CA has the highest tax rates in the country and the 4th highest cost of living. One would assume he may want a place to live that would allow his family to visit which could be another factor.
Jock Taxes may figure into it as well since he will not be making as much for a while. the only states that don’t have a Jock tax are FL, TX and WA…as well as D.C
This young man has an awful lot to consider. I do not envy him that.
Thank you but I don’t see money as a factor at all, even considering the Dodgers being strapped at 300k in comparison to Twins, Rangers and Yanks having close to 3.5 miilion. He left millions to come now and not in two years and there will be plenty of money making opportunites in LA outside of baseball.
Taxes are high in LA and I;m sure having a home will not be a problem. He is living in a dorm right now. He is humble and can find any apartment he wants, plus the Dodgers have accomodated travel plans for players like Kuroda and Maeda.
I think it will be a smaller factor than many of the items listed on the “questionnaire” but still a factor. As for the accommodations made for Kuroda and Maeda. They both signed MLB contracts, Ohtani being under 25 must sign as a MiLB player at first and is governed by Attachment 46 of the CBA. They can’t offer travel accommodations ATM. If he pans out and they extend him in a reasonable amount of time they could do it then.
I am a Yankee fan and Ki have to admit, this a very sound sales pitch. I figured Ohtani would want to go to a strong organization, with young talent, and legitimate WS aspirations, and I thought Astros, Dodgers, Yankees. I also believe the Mariners have a good chance because of how well they treated Ichiro Suzuki. Dodgers do look good.
Thanks for the compliment. No doubt Yanks will have a grreat sales pitch and I think they are built for the long term as well but we shall see.
Interesting to see that the Twins are targeting Darvish and Ohtani. Maybe a smaller market team is what he wants? Even though the Twins are young and talented, I don’t see long term success or naturally the resources that are available to the bigger market teams. Guess we will find out soon enough
So where has he played the last 3 season? Pitcher and DH?
I know very little about him. I do know my Orioles will pretend to try and then come up short.
As you said…SP and PH
2013 is 5 seasons ago now.
“2013 is 5 seasons ago now.”
I knowed that…I learnt my figurin’ and cypherin’ in scholl. I was learnin the feller that done asked ’bout it. Figered he could decide fer hisself.
Getting fed up with people saying “he can play the OF” – no, he actually can’t. He’s a P/DH. He isn’t playing the field.
Tell me where I said he could. I simply stated his experience…that was all. I expressed no opinion as to his present skills. Neither you or I know if he has kept those previous skills tuned, do we?
I read where someone said he was a better CF than the normal starter on the team he played on in Japan.
I read or heard somewhere that Ohtani might be the fastest player once he enters mlb so I wont doubt the Cf rumors or whatever. The guy runs like a deer and is athletic
Fastest in the mlb? What are we smokin today?
post a link or dont bother posting
How refreshing is it that someone’s desire to play for a team is based on happiness or “assimilation.”
Yankees got this one in the bag. Ohtani will be a Yankee come Christmas, mark my words.
Yep
I have to agree with that extrapolation.
I’m not a Yankee’s fan, but it feels like a good fit.
So we have a Red Sox and Yankee fan guarantee in the same article that Ohtani will be with their team. Now someone is lying here!
Or both.
Twins going to swoop on him.
Nevermind thats the article before this but the competition is still there
Your probably right, but I pray to God that you and the rest of the 30 million yankees fans out there are butt hurt when and if he signs with another team. That’s the reason why all the other 29 teams hates the Yankees and their fans. But on a serious note- Anyone who says “their teams going to sign him” is talking out their P hole. The guy obviously does not care about the money. Where he’s going is his choice. But one things for sure- he is a competitor, and cares about winning. Pick the top 10 teams with the chances of winning the next 4-5 years and that’s who he’s signing with
P hole…. nice.
Please god no!!! Go after Maitan and leave this bust alone. Sincerely Yankee fans!!
Lol. What has Maitan done that makes him less bust-worthy than Ohtani? If either one looks like a potential bust right now, it’s Maitan.
I have to admit as a Dodger fan I was butt hurt when the Yankees got Tanaka. I think the Yankees dropped the ball with Tanaka in not getting surgery when he was hurt, really affected him and was dangerous for his overall career.
Dodgers FO & organization is totally different know at all levels so I think we are in a better position to get a player like Ohtani than where we were at when Tanaka came over.
Glad to see that he has been solid, but I do think that was a mistake. He’s a good #2-3 pitcher for the Yankees but I think if he had gotten the surgery he would be a true Ace
Have to wonder if Ohtani takes this into consideration and definately falls into the realm of Care & Player Development.
Did you watch Tanaka during the stretch and again during the post season? You’ve tilted your observations with interesting opinions
I did watch quite a bit of Tanaka as I live in NYC and I do remember everyone wanting to lynch him during the season. He was getting lit up.
He no doubt had a great post season but that ERA in the regular season was terrible and I saw those games he pitched.
I was just pointing out that when he had the elbow injury he didn’t get surgery. He looked like a completely different pitcher afterwards. When he first came over before the injury he was dominating like no other. Even his perfomance in the post season, he didn’t look like the dominating pitcher he was before that injury.
In the end, he will be a Kaz Matsui at the plate, and a Hideo Nomo at the bump. But if you believe he will be more than that, then good luck and I hope your favorite baseball team signs him for way more than what he will be worth. (excuse me for starting a sentence with a conjunction)
ill take a nomo/matsui hybrid for a low 7 figure signing bonus lol
Signs him for way more than he’s worth? He is going to be extremely cheap. Did you even read this article? Do you understand how signing Ohtani even works?
God you’re smart.
Nah, he’ll probably be like Babe Ruth but not look anything like him so we will get the most backward-@ss comparisons by idiots rushing to compare him to other Japanese players, smh
He wants info about medical team. That rules out the Mets. Dr Seuss is their team doctor
Yup. My stomach sunk when I read that bit…
Me too! Ha!
I would imagine that could hurt Texas as well
That’s disrespectful to Dr.Suess.
You spelled Seuss wrong
Baltimore either has to be crossed off or the favorite now, I can’t figure it out.
Yeah, like the Mets would even try to get him. C’mon guys.
Mariners all the way!
I agree if he goes to the AL. Or Twins, I’d be be okay with that.
Not the M’s. Dipotto will screw up the response by writing it in crayon.
It was reported earlier last week the Ohtani favors crayon as his writing utensil over alternative methods.
Nah, crayon is the new thing. Not only does it have flair and creativity, but it’ll help their response stick out from the pack.
Like he screwed up the Trout extension?
I want this to be true so badly
You and me both. But honestly I’d be fine with any team as long as they aren’t the Yankees. Is that too much to ask?
Yes it is too much to ask Braden
Yea, that’s what I thought
“Do u like me y/n”
This is so exciting. I hope we publicly get wind of responses from all major league teams.
Evaluating minor league development and medical staff? M’s are out. Darn it.
I mean our development has been better in recent years. And we set a record for pitchers used in a season, our medical staff can’t be that bad again. But we have a lot of things going for us. Have you walked through Seattle? It’s almost all Asians, haha. Also, the history of Japanese players (which I would assume should effect but no idea) in our franchise. And Dipoto even acknowledged that he would put Cruz in the outfield on certain days allowing Otani to DH. And well our translator (Antony Suzuki) is well known too.
Ah yes. Fellow Asians walking around Seattle. That would definitely weigh into my decision as well to sign some where.
What does number 4 say again?
You mean to tell me theres not 1 asian in all of del boca vista!
Seattle’s player development went through an overhaul, so it will take a few years to start seeing results. Jerry’s excessive trading isn’t speeding up the process, though. I don’t know if that’s a flag or not, but at least there’s been an effort to make a change to the culture.
Prior to Furbush’s surgery, the Mariners had quite a surgery-free streak with its pitchers, and last season all 3 that required surgeries during the season were new to the organization and had played for just a few months at most. Iwakuma underwent surgery, of course, but he has some innings on his arm, and for what it’s worth, he has supposedly worked out with Ohtani in the past (as has Darvish). Seattle’s history has been excellent both with pitchers health and with Japanese players.
Dr. Lorena Martin may be the wild card here, as her role will be to determine when players need rest and how much to maximize their performance and limit injury risk.
So no, I don’t think the M’s are out. They’re likely one of the front runners.
One can hope. My off-season plan for the M’s has always been Darvish and Ohtani. They can afford both with Healy at 1B.
They should be able to afford Darvish after going cheap at 1B. Might have to backload the deal a bit, but it’s feasible. I still wonder if they might be looking for a LHH in the free agent bargain bin.
Jay’s a good fit as well, as he shouldn’t cost a lot and wouldn’t need to be platooned.
This guy has some nerve asking for a master’s thesis on why he should Grace a team with his presence. I’d never reply to such nonsense and take it as a sign of things to come that this guy is a coddled self-centered egotistical maniac who I want far far away from my club.
I mean, this is what he would ask a team when they’d come make their pitch to him. Why not do it once to all 30 teams rather than do it 30 different times to each team?
This is just a formality, I;m sure he knows which team(s) he wants to go to.
Hey Pepe! If you were hanging continents for your job, and you were a big enough deal that you could cherry pick everything about your workplace, living space, etc. you would do it too. You’d be dumb not to!
I doubt that Pepe has ever “Interviewed his potential employer” when applying for a job. He doesn’t realize that and interview provides Both Parties with information. If you don’t “have questions for them to answer”……they are less impressed by you….and there’s a good chance that You Don’t Get The Job…..
I think Ohtani is smart to get the responses beforehand…..and if a Team doesn’t want to respond (….if they have the attitude that Pepe seems to have)….Then they have Crossed Themselves Off The List….making his decision easier…..LOL
It’s not that out of the ordinary
Oh look, a player FINALLY does something to prove he’s not about the money, and you (stupid) decides he’s “nonsense”. Real great stuff there pepesilvia. Worst comment ever.
I may have said this on multiple occasions, but Pepe Silvia, your username brings joy to my heart every time I see it.
Barney, light this guy a cigarette
At this point I hope he says F it and signs with Miami AFTER they trade Stanton and Ozuna, he earns four rings with the Fish, then they trade him at the deadline of his fifth season to a team that gives him an 8 year 295 million dollar contract in the offseason after he forced his new team’s city to plan his fifth parade in five years.
People are saying the Yankees are going to get Ohtani…but no one knows, if he doesn’t like congested, dirty cities, with old infrastructure, he will not sign in N.Y. The Yanks have rave reviews from players about the quality of their facilities and the professionalism of their staff. But what might turn him off, is the media, the high taxes on just about everything, and the health of the city, there is quite a bit of homelessness, despite the concentration of millionaires, the air quality is bad because of the concentration of vehicles, per square mile and the traffic is horrendous. And the buildings and bridges are very old. New York has some negatives that baseball cities can play against. Take Ohtani beyond the game to feel the whole city, that might help sell him.
Yeah, I’m sure Ohtani will have concerns over the subway wait times he will encounter to work in the morning and the scores of homeless that will be congregated outside his building.
you dont have to live in nyc to play for the yankees
Wow. You’ve got a job however he is looking at a long list of criteria above your observations. Sorry you won’t be at the table as you are not invited to one of the best cities in the world.
This isn’t outrageous for Ohtani to be asking for this from the teams. At the end of the day, when his agent meet with the teams, that’s what’s going to be discussed anyway. The only difference is that this was made public.
Here’s a theory. What about a team spending the money on Darvish and nailing down Ohtani? One would think the kid would be quite enticed with a Japanese pitching star as a mentor.
If that was important he could stay in Japan.
He will have a great mentor on the mound in Tanaka. Matsui has already announced that he is ready and willing to help. Combined with Othani’s fascination with Babe Ruth—the last truly power hitter and pitcher and the game is over.
Every baseball fan is fascinated by Ruth, and every baseball fan should know that even Ruth had to choose between hitting and pitching. So this is where the expectations for Ohtani enter the Twilight Zone.
I have a feeling he’s going to pick an NL team, with no team going to be willing to let him play OF and SP it will allow him to hit a little. And a larger city with more culture sounds desired.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand the logic of him being a DH on days he’s not pitching but if he wants to pitch and hit he should play in the National League, you know, where the pitchers get to hit.
DH is not mandatory, He can hit for himself in the AL. Only problem is if he does and he gets pulled in the 5th the team cannot use the DH. The RP either hits or use PH.
One thing I would imagine teams will look at is his production at the plate when he played the OF and pitched as opposed to DH and pitched. His years as an OF/SP were OK but his last two years as a SP/DH have been outstanding. Of course some of that is age/experience as well.
It is pretty amazing that he won the “Best Nine” award in 2016 as both a SP and DH as well as MVP.
In the AL, he can hit when he pitches every 5 days, plus DH on the days he’s not pitching. Hitting every 5 days isn’t going to do much for his hitting stats, and I don’t think you want him playing a position.. The big question is, can he hit MLB pitching well enough to hold down a DH spot?
“The big question is, can he hit MLB pitching well enough to hold down a DH spot?”
It will be interesting. Despite an impressive slash line one area of concern may be his K rate of 27% against generally inferior pitching (no slight intended) compared to the MLB. He could end up like the 2 best hitters from Japan to make the switch to MLB, Ichiro and Matsui (Ohtani’s favorite hitter growing up). Ichiro went for a ridiculously low 8% to and almost equally impressive 10% in MLB. Matsui was a bit higher in Japan at 17% and actually lowered his K rate when he came to the US – 13.6%
Ive crunced the numbers, If Ohtani wants 382 PA’s as a hitter he can get pretty much the same amount of AB’s in the National League compared to the American League.
DH’ing 3 games before he starts because he needs one day after start and one day rest before a start. If you figure he has 20-25 starts pitching because the most he has pitched in a season is 160 innings.
If he DH’s in 96 games at 4 AB’s per game that is only 384 PA’s/AB’s
96 games plus 20-25 pitched games is already 121 gms which is realistic considering his workload in Japan at the most was 124 games pitching and hitting.
I just don’t see how Ohtani can get more PA’s or AB’s in the American League as he will need his rest day after start and day before a start and he does need to have a bp session in between.
National League can offer more PA’s/AB’s when he pitches, as a hybrid pinch hitter and double switches
Thoughts?
Again, well thought out and thanks for using paragraphs. I often forget and the curse myself after pressing “post comment”.
There are so many variables. One thing I haven’t pinned down regarding his move from the OF on non-pitching days to DH in Japan is was it his idea or the teams.
Question…have you looked at his #’s as a PH? I haven’t and am just curious. Some guys are remarkable PH’s and others not so much even if the are normally good in the batters box.
One thing that has to be a big adjustment for players from Japan, Cuba etc is travel. Not many 6 hour red-eye flights in those countries after a ball game. Length of season seems to play harder on some Cuban players IMO. They have a much shorter season than Japan or the US.
I still believe it took a toll on Puig his first few years. If you look at his #’s after 100 games (in his first year it would be 100 MiLB and MLB combined) he really tanked. The Cuban season with playoffs is just over 100 games.
Thanks for the civil chat. I have been awake since 10 pm last night and it’s now 5:30 am…need some shuteye.
I haven’t been able to find his PH AB’s or splits for that matter as a hitter and I am very curious. Either way, if his bat is the best in Japan it plays, I don’t care if he comes in to pinch hit and the other team counters with a loogy. Need to see what we have with him so he bats against righties and lefties.
This makes a teams bench even deeper to save other bench players for other matchups late in games..
As far as travel and long season, yes that is the struggle every mlb player has to get through. Hence Justin Turner, he was always a bench/platoon player until he turned his career around and became a starter. Even with that his numbers started to decline late in the season.
The travel and long season will def come into play with Ohtani and I;m sure he will recognize down the line why he will eventually just settle to full time pitcher
On a side note, this is why I hate McGuire and Bonds when they say taking PED’s doesnt help you hit a baseball. True but it does keep you stronger throughout the long grind of a season and that is the difference. SCUM BAGS
Where is your National League math?
If he’s only making 20-25 starts, he’s likely only getting 3 plate appearances per start (he won’t be pitching all 9 innings most games). For the sake of this argument, I’ll even use 25 starts AND round up to 4 plate appearances per start to give him 100 plate appearances while pitching. You really think he’s going to get another 284 appearances when he’s not starting?
Based on your logic of him needing a day of rest before and after a start, we’re now at 100 plate appearances through roughly 75 games (25 games before a start + 25 starts + 25 games after a start). Obviously the Dodgers won’t have a game before and after EVERY start, but it’ll happen quite frequently.
Now he needs an extra 284 plate appearances in under 100 games to match the AL total you came up with. We’re looking at roughly 3 plate appearances per game in games where he is NOT starting, and that’s a conservative number based on rounding down that 75 games from the above paragraph to 67 (95 games available x 3 PA’s/game = 285 PA’s), which is a more likely number when factoring in off days before and after starts.
Do you really think he’ll get an extra 284 plate appearances as a “hybrid pinch hitter” and utilizing “double switches.” Based on what I’ve been able to find (which was admittedly not as easy to come by as I expected), Ichiro set the MLB record for pinch hit plate appearances last year with 110 – and that was as a position player that didn’t have to worry about resting his arm before and after starts. Even if Ohtani sets the MLB record for pinch hitting, he’ll still be ~170 plate appearances short of what could potentially be doable in the AL. I’m not saying it isn’t doable, but it is EXTREMELY unlikely. That would have to be one hell of a hybrid pinch hitter.
*For the record, I root for a team that has no shot at getting him. I also don’t believe a team will let him hit anywhere near that much if they view him as an elite pitcher.
Where is my National League math? Where is your reading and comprehension skills. Everything is detailed above but I will copy and paste it for you specifically so you can see the math
Playing 28-56 games in the OF:which would be on par to what he played in Japan in the OF in 2013 (51)
If Ohtan starts left field ONLY ONCE EVERY 7 GMS, he gets 28 starts,with 4 AB’s (*112)
If Ohtani starts left field ONLY 2X EVERY 7 GMS, he gets 56 starts 4 AB’s (*224) ***Note that this is every 7 games and not every 7 days. This is where the extra off days on the schedule is important***
TOTAL AB’s possible for Ohtani with Dodgers in 2018′
70 as pinch hitter + 40 double swithing + 112-224 playing OF + 50 when he pitches = 272 to 384
384 PA’s for the Dodgers in 2018. The most PA’s Ohtani had in Japan was 382 PA’s
The most games played in a year by Ohtani in Japan 104 with another 20 starts pitching equalling 124 games.
By offering 20 starts pitching, 70 gms pinch hitting and 30-40 games utilizing double switch = around 120-130 games played for the Dodgers in 2018′
With this scenario, with all the off days including the new 4 days added to the schedule, this allows a 42 games off for Ohtani that comes before and after he pitches. So 120 to 130 gms played is approximately 42 games for rest not including off days. Understand? Or should I should I write it in Aramaic for you?
How do you figure Ohtani is going to get only 3 AB’s per start if he DH’s or plays the OF? He is going to be swinging the bat and to say he wont get at least 4 AB’s a game is asinine for a player that is going to play 9 innings and wants to show what his bat can do.
Ohtani’s got the Dominican Republic mentality right now of “Need to hit your way off the island”, with his limited AB’s he’s not up there to walk, he wants to rake!!
I really doubt that any team will start Ohtani in the outfield twice each seven games and I even wonder if teams would start him once every seven games just because of injury risk. I could see him ending the season with 15-20 starts in the outfield but even mentioning 56 starts is just wishful thinking by a fan of an NL team
I could see Seattle having Cruz in RF the day before and day after he pitches with Ohtani in RF in between.
I have never seen the guy hit but your telling me that this guy is a better DH then what the AL teams can use.
This is the exact problem with the assumption that he’s a lock to sign with an AL team. No team in the AL can assume his ability to hit MLB pitching well enough to be a DH, they have to weigh whether he’s really the best DH option. In the NL, this isn’t really an issue. Assuming he can pitch effectively to MLB batters, he likely can hit well enough to be a more value offensive asset than the vast majority of pitchers, and if he really proves he can hit MLB pitching, he could be moved up to the middle of the batting order (which also gets him more ABs). It’s fair to say any NL team could easily promise him that much. AL teams have a different set of constraints.
All thirty teams have to assess why they makes sense for him. And write it down. Down the list teams will be very likely to (in writing) let him pitch and hit, and write up an explanation how spring training would work.
Is anyone brassy enough to go (in writing) with a six-man rotation, to make it more “like home”?
Nobody knows what the magic ticket is. But so many seem to think they do.
Well said.
One thing that helped convince Ohtani to sign with the Fighters was the film they prepared for him. I know from a previous MLBTR the Mariners have already prepared a “film on the merits of Seattle and the Mariners”. I would not doubt that others have as well but that is the only one I have heard of.
The Yankees, negotiating from in front, are in a tricky spot.
Do they offer him at-bats, in writing? How many? Where are they coming from? If no, he’s out on them, if that’s what he wants.
Teams like the Royals and Rockies ought to come up with some really bizarre ideas to make his people think.
“Do they offer him at-bats, in writing? How many? Where are they coming from?”
Not really sure since he can only be sign to an MiLB contract at first. They can’t offer or guarantee anything extra of value, can’t guarantee a call up date, etc. I doubt it will get put in writing in his contract but that is just a guess.
Link CBA to Article 46 covers IFA signing
I see where you’re going, and I’m entirely opposed to cheating in the process.
That said, if he’s going to get at-bats, he’d certainly get some in Spring Training. Any team unwilling to ‘paint a picture’ of how they will handle ST likely won’t likely get him.
Including generalizations of how he’d get used in Florida or Arizona as a run-up to Triple-A or MLB.
Film on the merits of Seattle and the Mariners? Only merit I;d say they have is that the had Ichiro and taxes
And their playoff drought. They could play the hero card and show Ohtani how he’d be beloved by the fans if he brought playoffs back to Seattle. Not saying it would work, but Ohtani did tell Jon Morosi that he will measure his career by the ovation he’ll get by his fans when he retires.
Then you should learn more about Seattle’s history.
For the Dodgers depth and starting pitching usage in a six man rotation is feasable and was used in 17′ so it’s not a lie or telling him something he wants to hear or compares to back home.
Dodgers still have Brandon McCarthy, Walker Buehler, Ross Striplind and Brock Stewart who need to eat innings as starters or at least provide depth when injuries occur while manipulating the 10 day DL.
Even Kazmir is being paid 17 million this year and could possibly get a few starts, hence 6 man rotation. Most teams cannont even field 5 above average starters in a week. Dodgers have options
The Dodgers didn’t use a six man rotation. They used five men at a time. They did rotate pitchers in and out on the 10 day DL but that didn’t mean six were in the rotation. You don’t want to start Clayton Kershaw the same number of times as lesser pitchers. He pitches every 5th start, with him only getting an extra day if the team has an off day.
A true six man rotation also causes the problem of having one fewer reliever. The way the Dodgers did it, they didn’t have that problem.
He might not want to pinch hit regularly when not pitching. Some players think that pinch hitting is more difficult than getting four at bats because you come in cold. Players who do it regularly probably need to get into a certain mindset and Ohtani might not want to do that since he’s also pitching.
So I have question if a team let’s him hit can they DH a light hitting ss in those games. Also I think he could make the NL team use the the double switch or use him in the field by bringing in a left-handed specialists for a batter or two. Also if your going to assume that every team that has signed a Japanese player then you gotta put the Brewers in there. It will be interesting to see how long he signs a new contract after he debuts cause that will be the loopholes a team will take advantage of like the Rays did with Longoria. Plus the possibilities of endorsements will play into the picking of a team.
DH can only be used for the pitcher. If they want a pitcher to bat for himself it must be declared before the start of the game and the DH is eliminated that game.
Longoria was drafted in 2006, and debuted in MLB in 2008.
If Ohtani is signed in December and extended by May, some Coppolella Flags gonna go up.
I can’t wait for this guy to sign and for Stanton to get traded so the rest of the off-season can get moving.
Agreed.
Ohtani more than Stanton. Many teams don’t want to sign any of the free agents who declined qualified offers, because it will cost them some of that precious international spending money.
I agree with many here… it looks like the Yanks and Mariners are the favorites.
And the Braves Expats.
I hate to say it, but the Yankees look like they might just have it here.
They have an excellent player development staff, a bright future, a huge marketplace, a storied history and probably have assimilation resources out the wazzoo used for Tanaka (as well as having him as a teammate).
Will they let him start in the OF or DH regularly? That seems to be his #1 requirement.
Other teams will likely offer him more “development possibilities” than the Yankees, who are negotiating from the lead.
Knowing the Yankees are a bit ahead, what will Seattle counter with? And other teams near the top.
And, knowing what other teams might offer, how will NYY respond?
Why did he bother sending to Atlanta?
He’s going to the Cubs, he’s already growing his Jake Arrietta replacement Beard
It sounds like they realize that the money won’t be substantially different, no matter which team signs him, but they are placing a lot of stress on professional and personal development. Given the 7 questions, Toronto has the ability to put together a very strong presentation. Fans in Minnesota and Seattle will know what I mean.
I would love to see him in Toronto, but one big problem is that we already have a dh that is not very versatile!
Yet another Japanese ‘ace’ with five quality pitches (one of which he invented and gave a nickname) that will be a perennial Cy Young candidate. Where have I heard this song before?
Ohtani leads a low profile life outside of baseball. He is going to Seattle. NY is way too fast paced.
Minnesota works too.
If he needs to catch up on his sleep.
i went to NY when i was a little bopper. it was too fast paced for me, but i wasn’t a big time mlber so i can’t speak for this guy good post friend.
You forgot to consider the rain friend. i went to seattle back in 1987 and it rained the entire week i was there. if i were from japan, i would say no thank you…id rather keep my bones dry someplace like arizona friend.
I get the impression that Shohei Ohtani’s first priority will be to showcase himself, The team’s success will be incidental.
Haven’t heard any Yankee fans crunching any numbers or providing any proof on a reasonable workload for Ohtani? AB’s or starts?
Basically just comments “He is the perfect fit and will be our DH”
I honestly would like to see the Mariners do whatever it takes to land both Othani and Darvish. Move whomever, free up whatever, sign whomever… to get these two on board. I’d further like to see the Yankees move heaven and earth to get Stanton. I’m interested in story lines that would be good for baseball as a fan and those would be amazing to follow next season.
On a side note, I’d like to see the Marlins go ahead and just tear the whole thing down. Move Yelich and Ozuna. Though I’m not as concerned about where they land.
Darvish actually sounds like a good add for the Mariners. Yu, Felix would be a nice top 2
And btw, Marlins are tearing it down. Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna, Realmuto, Bour, Prato, Straily, Gordon will all be gone don’t worry about that.
Except Felix sucks now and Darvish was pretty bad all season last year.
An interesting approach by the agency suggesting a competitive, somewhat transparent process. The final decision if taken hastily or without clear reference to the listed criteria will open Ohtani and his agency to close after-the-fact scrutiny and likely criticism.
As a Yankee fan I hate when the fans, pundits and mystery “industry insiders” all expect the Yankees to sign the big free agent or trade for the available star. It does nothing but gets my hopes up, and lets me down when it doesn’t happen, like in the case with Cliff Lee, Robinson Cano, or Daisuke Matsuzaka (who even MLBTR predicted would sign with the Yankees).
And when everyone expects a FA to sign with the Yankees, there’s just a general sense of “of course” felt among fans and I’m robbed of the ever-so-satisfying sentiments of anger and jealousy. 🙂
Yankees have 1 title in 17 years since 2001 aka when they started hyperspending on free agents, so that’s proof that being the biggest spenders means absolutely nothing.
Yes, and we shouldn’t forget Yu Darvish and Yoan Moncada…although the jury is still out on him. I would have to say, it was good the Yanks didn’t get Cliff Lee, Cano or Dice-k. Although the Diceman and Darvish, were sound risks, the Yankees should have been determined to get, as well as Moncada. All of them made good sense, based on their needs at the time. Very good point. Yanks don’t always get their man.
Japanese population in Seattle: 500,000+.
NY? 2,000.
Low profile player needs and wants assimilation.
What? U gotta be kidding right? There are a lot more than 2,000 Japanese people in New York! LoL
There are not 500,000 Japanese living in Seattle and I’m sure there are more then 2,000 in New York. Both numbers are completely fictitious.
I don’t get this post friend. I thought the Japanese population would be much higher in NY. unless you mean new yonkers lol. i think america is so great that he can assimulate anywhere, not like in the 50’s when I was a youngster. Trump has us on the right track indeed friend.
Why are the Marlins interested? They are bascially having a fire sale trying to trade Stanton. Yelich, Ozuna, will follow after.
Let’s face it, the Yanks are a perfect fit for Ohtani, they have left open the DH spot, they can go to a six man rotation like they use in Japan, if he can hit and pitch he will be a mega star. Plus they have a young team Ohtani can grow with. They can also get a manager in Meulens who speaks Japanese.
Let me fix that for you:
Let’s face it, the literally any team is a perfect fit for Ohtani, while most AL teams have left open the DH spot, they can go to a six man rotation like they use in Japan, if he can hit and pitch he will be a mega star no matter where he goes. Plus a large majority of teams are a young so Ohtani can grow with them (?). They can also get a manager who has no doubt dealt with Japanese players before.
First question should be:
Spell my name.
M
Y
N
A
M
E
Biggest comp is maybe darvish, lol just go sign the actual guy on the open market. Hoping this guy translates in a great player is great and all but most scouts give him a 55 with the bat and a 65 as a pitcher. Hype is bigger than the actual talent at hand.
I’m a Yankee fan and I hope the Yanks get him but imo most foreign players, no matter how talented, take time to acclimate to culture and language, to how big the games are, to the travel, to the length of the season and even to the subtle nuances of the game (in Japan they play with a different ball and pitch only once a week.) Some pick it up quicker than others – some take a few weeks, a few months, some a year and some never. But like I said I hope the Yanks get him.
For the Phillies case
•it’s a very historical and fun city
•great fan base
• small park for him to hit lots of homers, while still being pitcher friendly enough to have had one of the best rotations in history
•great defense to help him while he’s on the mound
•great, young core for lots of years of success in years to come
•money for some big free agents next year to put the team at the top.
•Easy division to help with winning
•Brand new coaching staff with some VERY successful coaches
•etc.
1st off Shohei Ohtani will not play the field no team will jeopardize their investment to a possible injury to him by playing him in the field . His value is his pitching arm and hitting he will sign with a American League team where he will Start and between starts most likely DH 2 to 3 days a week.
No Way he plays a position on his off days from pitching . Not happening
His value is both
I completely disagree. If Ohtani was getting market value he would sign for 8 years and $120 million. If you can sign him for a tiny fraction of that sum, you are willing to risk the injury to him. It is not in the team’s interest to play Ohtani in the outfield, but it is in the team’s interest to compete with the other 29 clubs and to make a commitment to let him both pitch and bat because he cannot be enticed with the massive contract that he would get on the free market.
Already I don’t like his attitude…like “what will you do for his royal highness if I play for you? ” Until he plays in the real major leagues, we don’t really know how good he is..
I don’t get this post friend. I thought the Japanese population would be much higher in NY. unless you mean new yonkers lol. i think america is so great that he can assimulate anywhere, not like in the 50’s when I was a youngster. Trump has us on the right track indeed friend.
Someone will meet his terms. If you have a pitcher that is expected in 2018 to be equal or better than Arrieta (2018 Arrieta, not 2016 Arrieta) or Darvish, and who can hit better than Nick Markakis, Stephen Piscotty, Randall Grichuk, or Chris Owings, you would be crazy not to accept Ohtani’s terms to get a super cheap elite pitcher and a way above average hitter who acceptably plays outfield (much better defensively than Kyle Schwarber or Matt Adams), An Ohtani deal frees up money for other players compared to say Arrieta, who I think will get around four years at $70 million. Betting money for Ohtani is on the Dodgers, Rangers, and Yankees. I would not count out the Giants or Mariners either.