The Giants’ acquisitions of Andrew McCutchen and Evan Longoria have added a pair of offensive upgrades to their lineup, but the team is still facing a glaring hole in center field. Improving the outfield, both offensively and defensively, has been a long-stated goal of GM Bobby Evans and executive vice president Brian Sabean. However, the Giants are also said to be aiming to remain underneath the luxury tax threshold, which is calculated based on the average annual value of their players’ contracts and is set at $197MM for the 2018 season.
As presently constructed, the Giants don’t have much flexibility with regard to those self-imposed restrictions. (They’ve exceeded the luxury tax four years running now, so they certainly have the resources to do so if they change course. Various observers have given different indications of the team’s willingness to do so.) The exact amount of wiggle room the Giants have is difficult to pin down, but most projections give them about $4.5MM to spend. Cot’s Contracts, more specifically, gives the Giants $4.462MM before pushing up against that mark. Of course, it’s also important to bear in mind that salary additions and subtractions during the course of the season factor into whether or not a team ultimately enters the luxury tax space.
The Giants could certainly still trade a veteran player in order to clear some payroll and open up their options a bit more. However, the Giants’ highest-paid players are either core pieces (Buster Posey, Madison Bumgarner, Brandon Crawford, Brandon Belt) or expensive veterans coming off poor seasons that San Francisco would be hard-pressed to trade even if the team is inclined to do so (Hunter Pence, Mark Melancon, Johnny Cueto). The Giants could move a reliever such as Sam Dyson, who’s set to earn $4.425MM in 2018, which would roughly double their current level of spending room. Cory Gearrin ($1.675MM) and Hunter Strickland ($1.55MM) are both movable assets that could create some additional wiggle room, albeit at the cost of major league production.
Suffice it to say, a pricey addition along the lines of Lorenzo Cain — free agency’s top center fielder — seems decidedly unlikely unless the Giants decide to zip past the luxury tax line. Another open-market center field option, Carlos Gomez, also seems well beyond their current price range. A trade for Jacoby Ellsbury — an oft-suggested scenario from optimistic Yankees fans — certainly doesn’t fit into their budget, even if the Yankees eat half of the remaining money on Ellsbury’s deal. Christian Yelich? Giants fans would love to have him, but their thin farm isn’t going to produce the top offer the Marlins receive for one of the game’s more alluring trade chips.
The Giants have been connected to second-tier free agents since trading for Andrew McCutchen and announcing that he’ll move to right field, and there are myriad avenues that they could pursue while ever so narrowly sidestepping that $197MM roadblock. A few speculative options to consider, bearing in mind that the goal is to add someone who could conceivably had within a tight budget and can at least play average defense in center…
Free Agents
Jarrod Dyson: The 33-year-old veteran is tops on the Giants’ list of targets, per ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick, and it’s not hard to see why. Giants outfielders, in addition to posting a dismal .253/.311/.374 as a collective unit last season, also turned in a ghastly -32 DRS and -5.3 UZR. Their defensive, on the whole, was dreadful. Enter Dyson. At some point, it’s fair to worry that his speed and defense will decline, but his UZR/150 of 13.8 over the past three seasons (min. 1000 innings in the field) ranks 12th among all Major Leaguers at any position. He’d require a platoon partner given his career .215/.293/.259 slash against lefties (Austin Slater, perhaps).
It seems unlikely, though, that Dyson could be had for under $5MM annually. Signing him might require the Giants to move a reliever such as Dyson, as previously speculated.
Jon Jay: Crasnick listed Jay second among the Giants’ center-field targets in free agency, so it’s clear that San Francisco has some degree of interest. Jay would bring more offense to the position than Dyson, having posted roughly league-average (or better) offense in seven of his eight Major League seasons, by measure of OPS+ and wRC+. Jay is a left-handed hitter but has only a minimal platoon split in his career. He’s hit righties at a .289/.354/.392 clip and lefties at a .288/.359/.353 pace.
Jay, however, doesn’t have anywhere close to Dyson’s defensive skill set. He has rated as an above-average center fielder at times in the past, but he spent more time in the corners than in center with the Cubs last season and had below-average defensive ratings in center in consecutive seasons. Granted, even below-average would be an improvement for the Giants, who saw the since-traded Denard Span struggle considerably there in 2017. Jay, like Dyson, figures to cost more than $5MM annually, so signing him might require a corresponding trade if the Giants want to remain under the tax threshold.
Cameron Maybin / Rajai Davis: Maybin and Davis are similar in that each hits from the short side of the platoon, provides superlative baserunning skills and can generally be relied on in center field (despite lackluster ratings there in recent years). As the younger of the two, Maybin would be the pricier option, though Crasnick listed him third on the Giants’ list of center field targets in free agency.
The rest of the market is fairly light on players that could be reasonably expected to hold down a regular role in the outfield. Ben Revere could be a theoretical platoon pairing with Gorkys Hernandez in center, or if the Giants are looking more at reserve types, they could add a defensive-minded veteran like Peter Bourjos to the mix. But, if they’re looking to at a cost-effective center fielder, Dyson is perhaps the best bet. More options would present themselves on the trade market, however. (Although, today’s trade of Randal Grichuk to the Blue Jays eliminated one of the more logical options for San Francisco.)
Trade Options
Billy Hamilton, Reds ($4.6MM salary, controlled through 2019): Hamilton is the most frequently linked center field target to the Giants, and he’d fit their needs both in terms of budget and improving the defense. Zach Buchanan of the Cincinnati Enquirer, though, recently reported that talks between the two teams have gone “dormant,” adding that Hamilton may very well open the year in Cincinnati.
Keon Broxton (pre-arb, controlled through 2022) / Brett Phillips (pre-arb, controlled through 2023), Brewers: The Brewers have reportedly been shopping some outfielders around, and Broxton’s league minimum salary and power/speed blend would figure to intrigue the Giants. Broxton has 29 homers and 45 steals in just 709 MLB plate appearances, but he’s whiffed in a stunning 37.2 percent of his plate appearances. His defense rated excellently in 2016 but poorly in 2017. Phillips has less big league experience and similar strikeout issues, though he’s not far removed from grading out as one of the game’s best overall prospects. Milwaukee has also reportedly taken offers on Domingo Santana, but he’s more of a corner option and would have a higher asking price on the heels of a 30-homer season.
Juan Lagares, Mets ($6.5MM in 2018, $9MM in 2019): Lagares’ remaining salaries are part of a four-year, $23MM deal that the Giants could manage to fit into their payroll by shedding one other player with a relatively modest contract (perhaps sending a big leaguer back to the Mets in return). Lagares hasn’t hit much in the past two seasons as he’s been slowed by hand injuries, but he has a sterling defensive reputation; he notched a +15 DRS mark and +10.4 UZR in just 556 innings in center this past season. Lagares has been connected to the Giants already this winter, though New York doesn’t have a great center field alternative (defensively speaking) on its roster. Brandon Nimmo‘s name has also come up in trade talks, though the Mets don’t seem keen to move him unless they’re getting an MLB piece back. (Fire away with your Joe Panik speculation, though such a move would open another hole in San Francisco.)
Tyler Naquin, Indians (pre-arb, controlled through 2022): With Michael Brantley, Bradley Zimmer and Lonnie Chisenhall set to line up in Cleveland’s outfield, there’s no obvious spot for Naquin, who was an odd man out for much of the 2017 campaign as well (40 MLB plate appearances). Naquin hit well (.298/.359/.475) in Triple-A, though, and had a big, albeit BABIP-inflated, rookie season with the Indians in 2016. Both Brantley and Chisenhall are injury-prone and are free agents next winter, however, so perhaps Cleveland isn’t too keen on depleting its infield depth all that much.
Odubel Herrera ($3.35MM in 2018, owed $28.9MM through 2021, plus two club options) / Aaron Altherr (pre-arb, controlled through 2021) / Nick Williams (pre-arb, controlled through 2023), Phillies: With Rhys Hoskins moving to left field to accommodate Carlos Santana, there are only two spots for these three in Philadelphia. Herrera is the only true center fielder here, though all three have experience there in the minors. The Philadelphia organization may simply share time between those three players while allowing performance to dictate its future decisions. Even if they’re willing to deal from this group, the Phils would likely be on the lookout for MLB-ready rotation help, which makes the Giants a tough match in a deal. (San Fran would also need to shed a bit of cash to fit Herrera’s five-year, $30.5MM deal under the luxury tax bar.) Feel free to dream up three-team trade scenarios accordingly, if you’re so inclined.
Michael Taylor, Nationals ($2.525MM, controlled through 2020): It’s hard to see the Nats parting with Taylor unless they received some definitive MLB help back in exchange — likely behind the plate or in the form of someone that’s a clear upgrade at the fifth spot in their rotation. The Giants don’t really have either of those things to offer, but the fit otherwise works on paper, especially with top prospect Victor Robles looming after briefly reaching the majors late in 2017.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Now that the Jays have 7 OFs, maybe Pillar as well.
Also, you mentioned two Dysons in one paragraph without first names or links. Might want to clarify
Yea i thought TOR was set in their OF. I was pretty excited to see them give Teoscar Hernandez a chance in RF. I guess he’ll start the season in AAA
I think Hernandez will play LF. Pillar in center, Grichuck in right.
did someone say buster Posey for Michael A Taylor
lol
So,….exactly how many Michael A Taylors?
Doesn’t matter how many. No amount of MATs would add up to Posey. I say that as a Nats fan, btw. It’s like asking how many Tanner Roarks you would need to trade for Kershaw.
How about Michael B Taylor?
I’m feeling like the name Kevin Pillar needs to be added to that trade list. It makes a lot of sense for the Blue Jays to trade Pillar and his $3.25M salary to the Giants.
No it makes sense only for the giants not the jays.
It clears a spot to sign Cain, which I’m all for. Pillar should net a reliever. Not many Sam Dyson fans in Toronto after 2015 but he could be the smart play.
Hunter strickland
Don’t threaten me with a Hunter Strickland trade.
I don’t think trading from the already thin bullpen is a great idea, unless its Strickland, which case I could live with that.
Gearrin or Strickland can go right now, it opens 2 spots in the bullpen, there is essentially 1 right now on the 25 man and one starter and you have blach and Stratton competing for those 2 roles out of spring so you essentially can throw a moranta or some such in the mix and still be fine
I think Dyson or Jay are the best fit for this team, yet a trade for Lugares intrigues me.
I thought Grichuk would’ve fit in perfectly for the Giants! The salary even fit under their budget !
Just see what kind of shape angel pagan is in
I would rather see them check in on Blanco than pagan
Pagan couldn’t handle CF two years ago, I don’t think the year off will help.
An Ellsbury to Giants trade has been speculated on across the industry, from Heyman to Olney and from NESN to McCovey Chronicle. It’s not some fantasy dreamed up by optimistic Yankees fans. A very weird and dismissive statement for a journalist to make in something other than a tabloid ESPN opinion piece.
Well Ellsbury really isn’t a full-time player anymore, and the Giants need a starting CF, so you can see why it’s not a great fit.
I can see you’re a deep thinker. The Yankees have about 5 starting outfielders. Ellsbury would be a clear starting center fielder on the majority of teams, including the Giants. In fact, on the Blue Jays he’d arguably be their best starter at any of the three outfield positions.
I would start Teoscar Hernandez, Kevin Pillar and Randal Grichuk over Jacoby Ellsbury. Jacoby Ellsbury would not start for a majority of the teams either. The only projected starting CF’s I would play Ellsbury over are
G. Hernandez, A. Engel, L. Martin, P. Orlando, J. Smolinksi and K. Broxton.
Ellsbury is simply not very good – below average ballplayer.
You sound like those thousands of other optimistic Yankee fans that can’t stand Ellsbury and think the Giants should take him off their hands. This article blatantly calls you out. The only reason people are writing about it is because Ellsbury said he would go to the Giants. No one on the Giants, that I’m aware of, has said they want this guy.
The Giants don’t have the money for him, don’t want him, can sign Dyson for a few million and not have to wheel and deal, etc. The Yankees are stuck with him. Either have that $21 million sitting on the bench for the next four years or release him Pablo-style.
Let’s see… terrible arm, negative range, negative UZR, negative DRS, no power… 34 years old… owed a minimum of $68M… but he does get on base and is a league average hitter…
OK. If the Yankees pay $55M of that contract we’ll take him. He could still probably be a useful bench player, and the Blue Jays have already picked up every other fringe OF in baseball this off-season, so why not.
In exchange we will send you Kevin Smith. Not the 21 year old Blue Jays minor league shortstop, the middle-aged overweight director from New Jersey.
Ellsburry would fit in with The Giants outfield. Past prime/leaving prime, and 30 or older.
Well, didn’t take long for the arrogant narcissistic Yankee fans to try to weasel in and post the ridiculous comments. I know there’s a few thousand diehard Yankee fans in New York and they’ve settled in other parts of the country in the world . But they need to realize everybody else hates the Yankees. We don’t care about the Yankees. Keep your Yankee crap on your own sites. Ellsbury, nobody cares about him.
Ummmm, has it occurred to you that a speculative Ellsbury to SFG article is just clickbait made up by some writers?
It makes less than zero sense financially for the Giants , and is a salary dump by NYY.
But the FA market has been so slow the writers gotta write something…..
I’m sorry which return from the Giants are you talking about??? Because the Giants have big contracts to move as well. Did you know that in a trade both teams get something?
Ellsberg isn’t even close to the worst giants contract. Giants are way smarter with money than the recently frugal Yankees.
Pushing luxury tax threshold with a 64 win team. Average age of their starters pushing the AARP threshold. No young controllable talent to speak of. Yeah super smart with money.
well, when you put it that way…yes
Smarter! How did that Barry Zito contract work out for the Giants? Plus many more stupid OF signings also! Id still take Cashman as one of the top GM’s in all of MLB .
The Giants would not have won the 2012 World Series without Barry Zito’s postseason contributions, so… I’d say the terrible contract was worth it.
Maybe an Ellsbury trade to SF has been discussed on multiple media outlets, because it makes sense for the Yankees, but it still doesn’t make any sense at all for the Giants. The Yankees would have to pay over $51M of Ellsbury’s contract for the Giants stated desire to get below the CBT threshold. Even if it was a seller’s market it would still be stretch, but it’s a buyer’s market. SF has multiple options better than Ellsbury.
Ellsbury to SF, simply because Ellsbury once played an adequate CF, and SF needs a center-fielder, makes sense only on a very superficial level. Otherwise, it makes zero sense, for SF at least.
Let’s get serious here. Ellsbury didn’t used to play an adequate CF. He is a silver slugger winner, a gold glove winner, and a three time SB leader. He used to play an all star CF. He plays adequate CF now, and that’s what the Giants need.
Stop pretending the trade speculation is about a salary dump where the Giants get nothing. If salary gets dumped, the Giants would have to receive prospects that would make it worth exceeding the luxury tax threshold, or that would make it worthwhile to shave salary elsewhere. If no significant prospects move, the Giants would be sending a big contract in return, such as in some kind of a Cueto deal.
Do you even watch Giants baseball or listen to the front office? They aren’t going over the luxury tax threshold, and they especially aren’t going over for freaking Ellsbury. Any player your brilliant mind thinks would go back in return would just create another hole for the Giants to fill. Use your head, man.
This is why you’re not the GM.
Here’s one of many possible trade scenarios that wouldn’t put the Giants over the luxury tax threshold or make a hole to fill.
Samardzija has about 3 years 60MM left, which is about the same as Ellsbury has left. The Yankees would probably have to add a pitching prospect who is good and close to the majors to get it done- think Chance Adams. The Giants could essentially tread water on salary, get the CF they need, fill the rotation spot vacated by Samardzija, and potentially profit about 8 years picking up a young arm.
Use your head.
If we’re getting serious here, then let’s be realistic, and objective. Ellsbury was decent when he had a double digit DRS (13), but that was 4 seasons ago. Since then his cumulative DRS is only 3, Last season it was -3, so he isn’t even adequate anymore but is now below average. The GG was 7 seasons ago, and the last time he led the league in SBs was 2013. The injury history is not good.
There are multiple cheaper options that play a better defensive CF than Ellsbury. Why in the wide world of sports would the Giants make a 3 year commitment to a center-fielder in decline for his 34, 35, and 36 age seasons with a $5M buyout, when there are not only better options on the FA market, but better options in house as well? If Ellsbury were as valuable as Yankee fans try to portray him he could possibly be moved, but the reality is the NYYs are stuck with that contract. It has huge negative value and every club is aware of that.
The only contract that would serve the Giants to move is Hunter Pence’s and no way the Yankees want him, although his contract on the books is 3 times better than Ellsbury’s. There is absolutely no reason for, or chance, that the Giants to trade Cueto. He is only one season removed from a 144 ERA+, is a bounce back candidate, a #2 that would need to be replaced, and the Giants would be selling low on him.
You ignored everything I said about Samardzija and you are bizarrely assuming that the only types of deals on the table are 1-1s. This is just the kind of talk that was going on before the Stanton trade, and it’s more borne out of hatred for the Yankees than an objective analysis of the very real trade possibilities that have spurred speculation across the baseball media.
In case you were unaware the Giants intend to be competitive in 2018. They aren’t trading , and then trying to replace, Cueto, Samardzija, or any other pitcher that would help them contend this coming season. They aren’t wasting the few remaining prime years of Posey, Longoria, McCutchen, Crawford, Belt, Cueto, Samardzija, and Bumgarner to help out the Yankees.
You need to be the one to use your head. They are in win now mode. A trade of any of their front line starters for someone like Chance Adams would not only be a roll of the dice, but just plain stupid.
Samardzija a “front line starter.”
Longoria, McCutchen, Crawford, Belt, Cueto “in their prime.”
PLEASE. You are dreaming.
And you ignored everything I said about Ellsbury. The fact that you think he has even moderate negative trade value indicates big Yankee bias. Tell me why a 3 year commitment with a $5M buyout, to a below average defender, with health issues, that would require the Giants to move additional pieces to keep them below the CBT threshold when guys like Dyson, Jay, or Maybin among the FAs,or in house options like Slater or Duggar would be any kind of move that would improve the team.
I mean listen to yourself. You talk about the Giants moving Cueto or Samardzija to acquire Ellsbury? Finding an adequate CF is about a thousand times easier, not to mention much cheaper, than finding a replacement for the #2, or #3 starter, And, sorry, Chance Adams isn’t that guy.
Well, now you’ve lost all credibility. Are you saying that guys that will mostly be 30 or 31 are past their prime? And you were just saying how 34 year old Ellsbury is someone the Giants should want. Are you confusing baseball with football or basketball? It certainly appears you are.
Age is not the determining factor of a players prime, whatever you might have read on ESPN. All of the players I cited are in marked decline, just like Ellsbury, and thus past their prime. The Giants have been scooping these guys up!
Cash wouldn’t include Adams in any deal like that
I believe he meat that the Giants have a couple of more years until a rebuild will be necessary as those players are not getting younger..
You know a simple stat search says otherwise. Nobody in baseball considers 1 bad year a trend or decline. The Brandon’s are 100% in their primes. Crawford and belt are both top players at their positions, belt is streaky but both are premier defenders. McCutchen had a down 2016 and a better 2017, which on most planets isn’t a decline. Longoria hasn’t shown signs of a significant decline and has at least 1-2 years of top level play left. I’m sorry if reality gets in the way of your attempted insults.
A few rebounds might get your team from 64 wins to 74 wins. That’s better than .500!
San Francisco righthander Jeff Samardzija has posted 6.5 fWAR, valued at $51.6 million, in the first two seasons of his five-year, $90 million contract with the Giants.
Last season Samardzija ranked 15th among all pitchers in fWAR, one slot ahead of Yu Darvish.
fangraphs.com/leaders.asp…rs=0&sort=19,d
Steamer projects 2018 WAR of 3.5 in 202 innings for Samardzija and 3.6 in 179 innings for Darvish.
fangraphs.com/projections…rs=0&sort=19,d
MLB Trade Rumors predicted a six-year, $160 million contract for Darivsh while Samardzija has three years and $57 million remaining on his contract.
Gold gloves? Now we’re citing GG (one) as the be-all of defense? Sheesh.
Yeah, I love those 147 game seasons
Here’s what you don’t get:
If the Yankees want to dump Ellsbury’s contract (he’s fine for a backup OF now – it’s the contract that’s the problem) – they’ll have to SEND young talent with him to induce someone to take the contract.
Prospects are assigned financial value in today’s MLB, it’s all over this site, Fangraphs, etc.
If the Yankees want to dump a sixty-plus million dollar contract on another team, no team is going to take it – not for a guy who’s averaged 1.5 fWAR the last three years – without getting something else along with him. That means young talent.
As I stated previously, Ellsbury’s a fine backup right now, he can still play a little and is a good teammate, but he’s 34 and not worth his contract. It’s the contract the Yanks want to dump, not the player.
So what possible inducement can the Yankees possibly offer for another team to take on that contract, and why should any other team surrender anything of value for the “privilege” of bailing the Yankees out of a $60MM problem?
I stand by my point: Those speculative articles were meaningless clickbait.
Apparently, one Yankees’ fan thinks that the GIants could/should trade a 3.5 fWAR pitcher to the Yankees for a $60MM dead contract of a guy who’s 34 and has averaged 1.5 fWAR the last 3 years.
For a team that wants to try to compete a couple more times with their core, that makes absolutely no sense for the Giants because it hurts the MLB team – no matter what prospect they get back.
Now, if the Yankees want to dump the contract on another team that can afford it, sure toss Adams in (who may wind up in the pen if he can’t develop more than two plus pitches), but they would probably have to toss in more than a guy who might wind up a reliever for another team to bail them out.
Beisbolista, you are all over the place. You want the Giants to take Ellsbury because he’s good (better than any Toronto starter) then say he’s past his prime, then say the Giants should take him because they are acquiring other players past their prime.
To think the Giants should now trade Jeff to offset salary is insane. A team that is trying to compete gives one of the better starters in the NL to the Yankees to offset salary for a $21 million dollar 4th outfielder with four years on his contract and prospect (and unproven) starter is about the most delusional thing I’ve read in weeks.
“Ellsbury didn’t used to play an adequate CF. He is a silver slugger winner, a gold glove winner, and a three time SB leader. He used to play an all star CF.”
Could you not substitute Ellsbury for Ichiro and still have a pretty true statement? Except Ichiro won an MVP and more silver sluggers? You would get more for less…Cmon Giants go sign Ichiro you get an even better player and dont lose anything and get him probably cheaper.
Nobody here cares about Ellsbury. Nobody!
We’ve all stopped caring about what is best for the Yankees and where Ellsbury should go. You Yankee fans think that baseball begins and ends in New York. Most people hate the Yankees and could care less about their dead weight centerfielder. I’m betting you Yankee Fanatics show up on every teams sites and post your self absorbed, narcissistic opinions on how important the Yankees are.
Ya, great trade…Ellsbury will break a finger nail and be out 8-12 weeks. No thanks
Gints are in a tough spot. they don’t want to spend and no team wants any of their players except Buster and Bum, who they won’t trade. They don’t have much in the way of prospects. They really need someone on their current roster to step up, but it seems none of Parker, Williamson, Hernandez, etc., are all that. lots of bad contracts on this team
I agree with you wholeheartedly Tad. When did we start to assume anyone in baseball that turns 30 years old is “past their prime”?
If that’s the case, why are so many teams, especially the Red Sox, willing to offer J.D. Ramirez big money? Doesn’t he turn 31 sometime during this season?
I wouldn’t trade Chance Adams straight up for Shark!
Austin Slater and Steven Duggar are the up-and-coming Giants OFs. Slater player well last year before getting injured, and Duggar should break in to the majors sometime this season.
The window on Parker and Williamson is pretty much closed — they’ve had their chances, neither one could stay healthy for very long.
Steve Adams covered a LOT with this article…the most thorough piece yet. None of the other writers have written anything remotely comparable. Who gives 2 craps what they’ve said about Ellsbury? The giants clearly are not interested.
Beisbolista? You are wasting everyone’s time. You’re clueless.
Again, Mr. Adams you have done a great job here. Could you please address what you think it would take to get Pillar. As some have posted, I would have expected him to be mentioned since you covered as much as you did.
Once again, nice work sir
An Ellsbury to San Francisco trade was speculated upon prior to the Giants’ acquisition of McCutchen (and prior to the Longoria acquisition, for that matter). Even if the Yankees ate half of the Ellsbury contract, the Giants would still need to clear upwards of $7MM in AAV from their current roster just to head into the season a hair under the luxury tax and with no flexibility for in-season moves.
Ellsbury also has blanket no-trade protection, which he’s reportedly been willing to “consider” waiving for the Giants.
For this trade to work, you’d need the Yankees to eat $34MM+, the Giants to clear $7MM+, a player that doesn’t really want to be traded to decide he’s OK being traded, and the Giants to actually think that taking on a 34-year-old Jacoby Ellsbury at something like 3/30 is the better option than signing Jarrod Dyson or trading for a younger option.
Perhaps five weeks ago, you could squint and see it happening. Right now, it’s a pipe dream as far as I’m concerned. If, by some miracle, that scenario plays out, I will be more than fine eating my words and saying I was off-base to be so dismissive of the notion. You can be the first to comment on that post and I’ll gladly own it. As it stands, I stand by writing off the idea entirely.
Exactly, please don’t mention Ellsbury in another Giants article, that is feeding the beast!
Thank you
Steve, many here agree with your viewpoint. It just doesn’t make any sense for the Giants.
IMHO the only way the Yankees move the Ellsbury contract is to do something they would loath doing:
Sending Ellsbury to a team that could easily afford him – that has to guarantee him playing time or he won’t waive his no-trade – and including a couple of their top ten prospects for that team to eat the contract.
I can’t see the Yankees doing that. it seems to me they probably value the prospects more than the money.
Yankee fans must be the most narcissistic arrogant self observed fans of any team in the world. Nobody cares about those very very few people care about the Yankees. Yankee fans kind of remind me of trump fans.
What about the Yanks’ Aaron Hicks? Not sure what the Giants could offer, but he seems somewhat superfluous in the Bronx, especially if Ellsbury sticks around.
The Yankees are looking to shed salary or to acquire impact pitching. Hicks makes less than $3MM and is controllable through 2020. They are going to want to hold unless the Giants would trade Cueto and eat salary, which seems unlikely.
Yeah, I think you’re right, it doesn’t seem like there’s a match. Just wonder what the Yanks will do with everyone if they can’t shed Ellsbury.
Try and remember, nobody here cares about the Yankees and their Ellsbury deadweight troubles. If you’re a Yankee fan, I got news for you, very few of us in the world share your arrogant narcissistic view Of how important the Yankees are.
Sort of like your views of the over -the -hill
and desperate Giants
Trade cueto and eat salary? Stop pretending you watch baseball or understand the giants. You do not.
Are you drunk???? I said unlikely. Keep preaching professor, your team had 64 wins and that’s about the average age of your offensive starters
Given what’s been reported, this is far-fetched (but maybe fair?). After JDM signs with Bosox, they deal JBJ and Moreland to Giants for Belt and $ to cover difference in salaries ($4m?). Moreland is not what Giants want at first (especially his LHB in that park), but maybe he keeps it warm for Shaw? And HanRam then has something to do. Betts can play CF, no?
I believe a signed free agent can’t be traded without consent until after draft day (June 4).
Good point. I think you’re right. Don’t see the Giants doing something like this without having someone as a stopgap at 1st. Even with Posey spending a good deal of time over there.
Moreland was resigned by the Sox
He can be traded at anytime!
Hey bigowe, what are you smoking??
Would be absolutely hilarious if Hunter Strickland is traded for Michael Taylor. Strickland and Bryce sharing a locker room.. excuse me while I channel my inner Shaquille O’Neal, “Bryce, tell me how my fist tastes.” Lol
Jonathan Papelbon 2.0, that would be cool. I’ll bring the popcorn.
How come Jeff Samardzija’s name has not been mentioned at all? Is there a chance a deal could be swung to lose his contract and gain a CF in the process?
Samardzija hasn’t been mentioned because it doesn’t make sense for the Giants. With all the CF options out there, a #3 innings eating rotation piece is more valuable. and much harder to replace, than it is to find a good defensive CF.
Actually Paul Swydan at Fangraphs mentioned it just a few weeks ago in an article where he said it makes sense… Because it does.
Samardzija has about 3 years 60MM left, which is about the same as Ellsbury has left. The Yankees would probably have to add a pitching prospect who is good and close to the majors to get it done. The Giants could essentially tread water on salary, get the CF they need, fill the rotation spot vacated by Samardzija, and potentially profit about 8 years picking up a young arm. In other words, yeah it makes sense for the Giants
It makes less than zero sense for the giants. Ellsbury isn’t even close to as productive as samardjiza, there are easy to squire cheaper alternatives to ellsbury, and there aren’t for samardjiza. Samardjiza is a fly ball pitcher whose numbers were skewed by bad defense from a team built on defense. Ellsbury is a washed up corner outfielder pretending to be a centerfielder playing on a contract with negative value. The giants don’t want or need any fringe Yankee pitching prospect. When is the last time the Yankees produced a halfway decent pitcher? Now let’s pretend for a minute the giants traded samardjiza. Is ellsbury really the best they can get? I think not. This trade makes less than zero sense. Everytime you post it, it makes less sense.
I’ll take Severino any time over all other 4 giants starters not named Bumgarner, by the way I wouldn’t want Chance Adams going back for Jeff either , not worth the money and prospect
“Fringe pitching prospect” is laughable considering the fact there’s no chance in Hell that Cashman is adding any pitching prospect inside of the orginizations top 25 prospects to a trade to shed Ells.
Yes there is. A lot of teams can’t or won’t want to take on ellsburys contract unless he’s attached to a prospect
@Dodgethis, agree.
Hypothetically, if the Giants sent Shark to a team like the Phillies along with a little cash they might be able to pry one of their three guys away.
All three of those guys are younger, waaaay cheaper, and potentially better than Ellsbury.
Shark has real value, even with his contract.
Shark for Ellsbury? The whole Giants FO should be fired if they did that deal.
“there’s no chance in Hell that Cashman is adding any pitching prospect inside of the orginizations top 25 prospects to a trade to shed Ells”
This is exactly why they still have his contract on the books. No team is bailing them out financially without other talent coming with him.
I’m fine with that if there’s any team that can afford to keep him and still sign big in free agency next offseason that’s the Yankees 🙂
“…no chance in Hell that Cashman is adding any pitching prospect inside of the orginizations top 25 prospects to a trade to shed Ells.”
I agree 100%. But that basically means that the NYYs aren’t going to be able to trade Ellsbury.. With more players out there than spots available, teams have better options. With those better options, no team is taking Ellsbury unless the deal is sweetened with a prospect to make it worth their while, which we agree isn’t going to happen.
Then he’ll have to get that contract whittled down to the equivalent of a 1 year, $7-10MM deal.
That’s around 85+% of his contract. And that’s likely with receiving nothing in return.
At that rate, you may as well just DFA the guy, which I won’t be surprised if they don’t just do by mid-season, anyway.
Oh we’re back to the Ellsbury Debate. Can you Yankee fans please go try to Glab onto another site. The Giants are not interested in Elsberry, go away Yankee fans. Please, go away
Will let you know when we give two cents about Ellsbury. Until then go bother somebody else!
Shark has a full no trade contract and said he loves SF and will not wave it.
An Ellsbury trade could be made to work in one of two ways. First it could be a straight up swap of Ellsbury for Hunter Pence, with the Yankees paying down let’s say $25 mm over the last two years of his deal. This would give the Giants a decent CF for $25 mm over the next 3 years, and allow them to only slightly increase salary for 2018 ( roughly $3 mm). Pence would be either cut by NY or flipped in a salary dump trade, saving some more payroll space and a roster spot.
A second scenario would be to expand the players involved, perhaps Betances for Panik. This would improve the NYY by adding a 2B and subtracting a player from a position of depth. For SFG it would add a needed impact bullpen arm with definite salary surplus value. To balance out the salaries a bit more you could include Hundley from the Giants and Austin from the NYY, with NY again flipping Hundley.
And then who plays left field and second base? This trade doesn’t even make sense. How does this help the giants?
Ellsbury will never swing the bat like he used to until he is humbled with zero teams wanting him. Pedro Slvarez treatment-a season in the minors and he returned swinging .313.
Hundley was just signed so can’t be traded until June 4.
He was resigned
and can be traded at anytime !
I would take Randal Grichuk and Teoscar Hernandez over Jacoby Ellsbury any day of the week. Ellsbury is trash. There are plenty of CF I would start over him.
It’s going to be hilarious if the Orioles finish above the Blue Jays. Really not out of the question at all. Think of me if it happens.
You don’t say? Would you rather have Trout or Adam Jones as well?
They aren’t on the market, it doesn’t matter if you’d rather have them…
Pretty sure this was in response to the guy that said Ells would be the best outfielder on the Jays. Beibolista seems to think hes still a top 10-15 CF in baseball. For what it’s worth i dont see Ellsbury being traded hes not an upgrade on anything resembling a competitive team hes expensive there are lots of other better cheaper options and he has a no trade clause so he wont go to a team he doesnt think can win
@Yankeesfan5891 I meant to originally reply to what Beisbolista said, not make it a new comment. He said Ellsbury would be the best OF on the Blue Jays. As I mentioned above, Ellsbury would probably start over only six current projected CFs: Engel, Hernandez, Martin, Orlando, Smolinski and Broxton.
Don’t expect Belt to make it another season in SF. Sure he is a key piece until you see the dominant Shaw take over and you start to say Belt who. .241 BA for 2017, only 98 HR in a career for a 1B says bye bye to a player demanding 6mil. That move alone gives SF the 4.5 mil they need, upgrades the team and brings in a quality center field with pool money of 9 mil and staying under the luxury tax.
Why are you cherry-picking stats? Obviously you’re not a Belt fan, but your less than objective take rings hollow. Yeah his BA was only .241 last season, but it’s .268 for his career. Despite the down year he still had a .355 OBP and an .823 OPS. The fact that he has only 98 career HRs is due to the punitive effect of AT&T on LHHs.
Why did you ignore the park-adjusted stats? He had a 117 OPS+ and a 119 wRC+last season. He has a 126 OPS+ and a 128 wRC+ for his career. He throws lefty which is preferable for 1B and plays sterling defense, making the IF better. And what makes you think Shaw is ticketed for 1B? With both Pence and McCutchen on 1 year contracts Shaw is probably the LF of the future.
Belt is the top defensive first baseman on a team built around defense and pitching. Belts job has never been to carry the load offensively. Until Shaw is a proven defender, belt isn’t going anywhere.
Here’s the SABR Defensive Index for NL first basemen. The index is one of the components for Gold Glove selection. Btw, the top index score in the AL was 6.9.
First base
Player Team SDI
Brandon Belt SFG 10.7
Paul Goldschmidt ARI 8.8
Joey Votto CIN 7.9
Anthony Rizzo CHC 6.3
Cody Bellinger LAD 0.8
Eric Thames MIL 0.3
Matt Carpenter STL 0.3
Freddie Freeman ATL -0.8
Lucas Duda NYM -2.1
Wil Myers SDP -3.5
Josh Bell PIT -3.6
Mark Reynolds COL -4.5
Ryan Zimmerman WSN -7.2
Tommy Joseph PHI -10.8
Belt is an elite 1B, and by most advanced metrics, he’s the best offensive player on the Giants roster.
The anti-Belt crowd in San Francisco is the most laughably pathetic group of baseball fans this side of the Mississippi. There is literally zero reason to dislike the guy. None.
Check his strike outs
Dammit, Steve. You got me with the strikeouts argument!
Giants should DFA him. He must be garbage.
I’d still take Goldy
And Votto over Belt any day !
One, the Giants have wasted these last two trades if they do not get a great CF for their 81 games in SF. They must pay the price for Hamilton or waste another year with bad ‘D’ You can not add ‘O’ and give up more on the ‘D’.
Solid point…. Giants need to stop adding the ‘O’ and start taking the ‘D.’
As long as that price isn’t Heliot Ramos.
If they could pry Yelich for Ramos plus a few other prospects they should do it in a heartbeat.
“They must pay the price for Hamilton or waste another year…”
There are other options. Hamilton isn’t the only good defensive CF. Signing Dyson wouldn’t cost prospects from an already thin farm.
In a vacuum what the Giants are doing is highly inadvisable. Given their very specific situation, loading up on veteran players who were stars at a low cost makes sense. They aren’t going to tear down that core of 3 time champions yet, so it only makes sense to add.
Will it work? Probably not. But, it’s by far, their best chance to win in the next decade so…go for it.
PS- Nobody wants Ellsbury. Yankees fans need to work through the 5 stages to acceptance.
It worked for blue Jays in 93, it worked for the Yankees in the late 90’s, who else red Sox 2004 Diamondbacks 2001 I don’t know what other teams has that strategy of getting veteran players former mvps to help them win world series Orioles 70’s oh yeah Yankees 77-78 twins 91 etc etc
Those teams were not coming off a 64 win season. Not to mention how bad the Giants have been since the second half of 2016…
The Giants had so many things go bad for them in 2016, that adding a couple of solid vets and hoping for better health is probably more advisable than just eating a bunch of money to dump guys. Don’t see you getting great value for Crawford, Shark, Cueto, Melancon, Span, Pence, Moore, etc. So you wheel and deal and hope a few things go your way.
Twins was a last place team and 5 other teams have done it as well your right they didn’t win 64 some won less
We traded span for Longoria.
Span and Moore. That’s the “wheel and deal” Brixton referrered to. He knows we traded Span.
This exactly. The giants core is what teams try to build, just because it’s been 2 years now since they won a championship, you don’t start over. To get players like Posey and bumgarner on the same team at the same time both in their prime, that’s the whole point! Giants will do whatever it takes to win. It only took a couple years after bonds left for the giants to return to contention. Sf isn’t going to enter or worry about some rebuild mode. By the way, the giants are one of the most valuable sports franchises in the country, money isn’t an issue.
You know how the Yankees got Stanton cheap it’s called a no trade clause. Well ellsbury has the same thing the Giants don’t have to offer or give anything. The Yankees will have to eat more then half of his contract around 40mm and send not one but multiple prospect plus a player the Giants do want like betances and the Yankees get Dyson and Sandoval. All because Ellsbury has all the power and he wants to play with the Giants
Except, other teams actually wanted Stanton. Nobody wants ellsbury, and everyone outside New York knows it.
Someone’s bitter that Stanton rejected their team full of old guys past their prime
It does not matter who wants him it doesn’t matter who the Yankees want to trade him too that’s my point.
Why in the hell would the Yankees eat salary plus send a player like Betances. HELLO-Mcfly the Yankees don’t need to trade Ellsbury so he has no power.
How do the Yankees have the power how. Explain if they want to keep paying him for the next 3 years sure they have all the power 68mm for someone sitting there. Taking Frazier cave and whomever else’s spot for the next 3 years oh yeah Ellsbury has no power at all
Yes he has a NTC but they don’t have to play either. Yes it would suck but his limited playing time last year didn’t hurt that much. Cave is not the future by any means..
*him
You sound like a babbling 12 year old who doesn’t understand the game
Another Yankee fan with wit
Who was this meant for?
The point was it will take alot to get the Giants to take Ellsbury and 10mm of his contract let alone 30mm for that the Yankees will have to give up pieces while getting very little in return. Ellsbury is not gonna have the team he’s going too give up any good pieces.
The Giants have maybe picked up ten wins with additions and the hope for bounce back seasons. Guess what that leaves them at 74-88 good luck with that…
Fangraphs has them projected with 85 wins and the 2nd spot in the wild card.
Yea and what was their prediction for 2017. The Giants are a fourth place team at best! Second WC spot have you forgotten about the Rockies,Cardinals,Diamondbacks,Brewers,and even the Mets are gonna be better
2018 Cardinals are projected 88 wins and 1st WC spot. Everyone else 83 and under.
projected by war for 2017.
Cubs
Lad
Was
Bos
CLe
Sf
Hou
Stl
Laa
Nym
Sea
NYY
Pit
Det
Tor
Tbr
Tex
Mia
Bal
Chw
Oak
Kcr
Ari
Col
Min
Cin
Phi
Atl
Sdp
Mil
Projection cannot predict injuries,trades, Or a break out season like judge
Yea I read those crazy projected records. Funny stuff. Wait for pecota why don’t you…
Just the fact the Mets are ahead of the Yankees alone shows me that projection is wrong. and Im a mets fan and for us to hit that projection everything has to align perfectly. Im just praying we keep the rotation healthy and productive for most of the season.
Projection i listed was for 2017. Yanks had massive break out seasons by multiple players. No way to project that.
Mets had massive injuries
Will let you know when we give two cents about Ellsbury. Don’t hold your breath! Those discussions belong in the sewer with the rest of the Yankee discussions on deadweight Yankee players!
Does anyone know what Billy Burns is doing? I see him as a potential trade candidate as well.
Billy Burns is on the 40-man roster of the Kansas City Royals but is out of options, so the fleet outfielder can’t be sent to the minors (where he spent most of 2017) without clearing waivers.
Burns finished fifth in the 2015 AL Rookie of the Year voting playing across the San Francisco Bay in Oakland. The 28-year-old center fielder, who remains under team control for four seasons, may be worth a flier at the league minimum salary.
If you meant “Sleepy” Bill Burns, I don’t see anyone trading for a guy who helped conspire to fix a WS, LOL. Besides, he’s been dead for years.
While we’re talking dead CFs, I’d take that Billy Hamilton any time.
I did not really want to comment on Ellsbury. Who I think the Giants should focus on getting is Herrera he is exactly what the Giants are looking for. Sign JDM trade for Herrera and put the off-season to bed. And yes the Giants are going to go over the tax they never planned on staying under. This is what they do and during the year if they are in playoff contention they will continue to add .
“Sign JDM”…where would he play?
Pence would be 4th of
Just blow through the luxury tax and weaken their objective to strengthen defense. Sounds counter productive…
Martinez in left Herrera in center Andrew in right that is a solid outfield and offensively would be amazing.
What would you propose trading for Herrera? He’s 26 and played 3 years. He’s averaging 3.5 fWAR a season. He has a contract with 4 cheap seasons and 2 option years. That combination of young, established, and cheap is extremely coveted by most every team.
On top of that the Phillies big need is established players. They have about 6 #4-5 starters and they are overflowing in prospects in the 50-250 range.
It came up the other day when everyone was saying how great yelich is and I said I would take Herrera over him. I pointed out how comparable there stats are. Now the package I am not sure but if we were gonna trade for another OF I’d rather we traded for one of the Phillies young trip of Herrera Williams or altherr not ells broxton or yelich
OK, let’s play:
Who do the Giants have that the Phillies would want in order to trade a young, inexpensive player like Herrera?
I think the Phillies would listen, but what would it take for Klentak to say “yes”?
Free up some money by including Sam Dyson in deal to Brewers for Keon Broxton, Then sign Jarrod Dyson. That would give them speed from both sides of the plate.
I still see a good match with the Yanks and Giants. If I were the Yankees, right now I would ask which player has more value to them. Clint Frazier or Chance Adams? I say this because Cuento and Ellsbury Salaries are the same per year, with Cuento having one additional year.
Do the Yanks trade Ellsbury and throw in Chance Adams for Cuento? Numbers are the same, although the Yanks add $21mm in total commitment. The Yanks then retain Frazier and slot him in at the 4th/5th outfielder. The Giants get someone with the athleticism (and pedigree) to play a true center field. And a top prospect more or less ready for the opportunity in the majors.
Ellsbury would veto the trade. He has the power. LMAO
Yankees aren’t including Adams in a trade like that. One they are looking to acquire a young cost effective arm an not looking to add another questionable expensive contract. Two are you even a Yanks fan?
You failed to the see the point I was making. The Yankees have been shoping Frazier for that “cost controlled” younger player. That’s a big price to pay. Or do they value Adams, more, less, equally and could they attach him for a pitcher who can be anything from a #2 type to a #4 type in the rotation. I’m all for a younger and more cost effective method, but that’s going to cost Frazier and part of me rather the Yanks hang on to him, especially with Gardner under contract for 1 more season. In 2019 Frazier could play a major role for the Yanks. Then again, they have Florial too. Man, the Yanks have some good prospects right now.
Yankees rotation is fine right now. They finished toward the top of the league in all pitching stats,not to mention have that bullpen for a full season. Sonny Gray will have that time in NY to settle down and yes Adams along with maybe Sheffield will be valuable contributors. Ellsbury will more then likely be hurt as usual so Frazier will contribute in 2018. Let’s revisit this stuff at the trade deadline depending on how they’re performing…
Why would the Giants give up their #2 pitcher for Ellsbury in a year they are trying to compete?
Just because Cueto and Ellsbury have similar contracts doesn’t mean they have the same value.
Cueto is a hell of a lot more difficult, and expensive, to replace than Ellsbury. And Cueto is a hell of a lot more valuable than Ellsbury.
I bet the Giants would demand a player whose name would make Yankees fans cringe just hearing.
Aaron Altherr and Luis Garcia to SF
Joe Panik to NYM
Gsellman, Heliot Ramos and Garret Williams to Philly
I know its probably pretty bad, but the article said to dream
1. Gsellman is an Oakland A.
2. Broxton is below average defensively
3. Article said Phillies need a veteran starting P
4. Ramos is staying. Williams is a highly regarded lefty. The giants have acquired two franchise faces and preserved what few quality prospects they have.
BUT, I do like ur thinking. Altherr is a stud
Having said tho
Oops, forgot to delete something
Did Gsellman get traded and i not see it? I see him slotted in the minors for the mets.
Altherr would be a good get for the Giants.
As a Phillies fan he’s the guy I hope they keep. I’d rather see them trade Herrera or Williams – preferably Williams because I think Altherr and Herrera will wind up better.
If you look at Altherr’s 2016 season as an wrist injury riddled throwaway, in 2015 and 2017 he put up a .263/.339/.509 line with 24/87 in 573 PA.
That’s why I hope he stays with the Phillies.
Broxton sounds good but the strikeouts go against what the Giants have been about this decade making contact moving runners . In 2012&14 we hit less homers then last year and what makes broxton somewhat enticing is his power that will become warning track outs in SF
I do wonder how much the Giants’ new hitting coach, Alonzo Moore, could help with the strikeouts.
While Moore was assistant hitting coach at Houston, the Astros went from worst to first in the strikeout department. That philosophy could probably work for someone like Broxton.
Great point if broxton could cut his 40% so rate to 20% he would become a steal.
Once again, a Giants article spammed with garbage Ellsbury talk.
I agree that Pillar could be added to this list. how about a Dyson for Pillar swap? That would help fill a Leone void and the Gs would be set in the OF.
Sam dyson isn’t good though
And Kevin Pillar flashes the glove but is a below average hitter. Dyson isnt as good as leone, but the giants could throw in something else
you don’t give up a 3 WAR, gold glove caliber CF for a reliever who had an ERA over 6 last year
Eh, I may be on the wishful side but it’s not completely out of the question if the Gs throw something else in that intrigues the jays.
one of their top prospects? Sure.. maybe
lol the Gs top prospects aren’t exactly hard to give up. Well give you Dyson and Slater
More like Ramos, Beede and Dyson lol
WOWWWWWWWWWW someone holds kevin pillar with high regard…..I dont think we will be working something out.
Below average hitter?? 37 doubles and 16 HRs last year. Great speed? Highlight reel defense?
Compared to what’s available and what they had last year? Yes, VERY high regard
he barely gets on base at 30%. Asking for the two top prospects and an MLB ready reliever is absurd lol
Dyson’s era was under 5 last season.
They’re looking for defense in center. LOL?
With the Giants, yes. He was combustible with the Rangers.
Of course people want to talk about the future back to back to back world champions
Ellsbury is the only interesting thing about the 64 win Giants
Normally I’d understand not pushing Cain due to luxury tax but remember Cutch is a one year deal, so his salary may be gone next year and Cain slides in.
It is the qualifying offer not the money. I like Cain alot
Take Ellsbury from us, we’ll pay a 3rd of his salary left on his contract…
The problem is Ellsbury is a 34 year old, 1.5 win player now and not even worth 2/3 of his contract.
A third of his salary?
Is Gleyber Torres coming with?
Cutch will be their CF, I don’t care what they said about RF. Wait & see.
Cutch is one of the worst defensive CFs of the last few years lol
Still an upgrade over Span.
The metrics say Span was better. Which is alarming considering Span was brutally bad.
Would a Nick Williams for Chris Stratton deal work
They both performed well last year same age you would think that would be a good swap the most fair trade mentioned here.
Stratton is 3 years older than Williams.
Hey San Fran I know a guy who plays center that can be had for 0 prospects of any value. Granted he is a walking M.A.S.H unit but he’s fast !!! 😉
Let the Steven Duggar kid take the job and run with it! Just add a cheap veteran depth piece just in case and use the teams assets elsewhere.
To relay on a young player with 300 at bats above single A ball doesn’t seem smart or realistic. .292/.384/.811 line is nice but doesn’t scream I’m ready.
All they need is his defense right now which is considered plus plus.
Good idea Sid. Duggar is as likely to help as much as some of the players available. Word is he may be more ready than many are touting
Pence, Samardzija, Crawford, Posey, Melancon all have full no trade clauses. Belt can block trades to ten teams and no one is taking on his salary with his injury history. Also the 1b market is flush with options. Cueto is not getting traded either he has no valve. He is owed 93m over the next 4 year and coming of his worst year. Fa market has equal or Better options.
The Giants acquired Clutch and Longloria to win now. There’s really no big reason for them to not go over the tax. other than to use it as a bargaining tool. Yes they would be in the 50% bracket, but it’s only money. Gomez or Dyson and a rebound starting pitcher. Giants need to find another Vogolsong and Blanco. Cheap above average players.
I generally agree that they should go over the tax,but to this point there’s not much of an indication that they’re willing to do so. To me, if you’re trying to erase a literal 40-game gap by which they lost the division to the Dodgers last year, you can’t really worry about spending to this extent.
Kudos to them to improving by this much while still threading the luxury tax needle, but they’ve not done near enough to make themselves a legitimate division contender unless you expect rebounds from Bumgarner, Cueto, Shark, Melancon, Pence, Belt and Crawford (to say nothing of Longoria himself, as his bat was rather pedestrian in 2017). That’s a whole lot to bank on.
I don’t think anyone expects Pence to bounce back at this point. Maybe the new batting coach will help him lay off the low, outside breaking ball, but durability will always be a problem.
One can make the case that every single player on the Giants’ roster underperformed (or was seriously injured) in 2017, except for Buster Posey and possibly Samardzija. Not everyone will bounce back, but there are a lot of realistic bounce-back candidates on the roster.
Here’s something to consider: if the giants stay under the threshold this yr, the % tax resets.
So if it resets and they go over next year, the tax is back to 20%, AND the threshold next year is $206 million.
These facts are a tempting reason to stay under this year
Think the Yankee OF that fits best and would be attainable but is never mentioned is Brett Gardner
Love Gardner but he cost to much money. Panik for Aaron Hicks is a possible fit. Panik would be a big loss for the Giant, but if they insist on staying under the tax there going to have to trade him or Ramos for a good CF.
NNNNNNNNNNNNN NO!
Panik is a plus defended with a league average bat. At Yankee stadium he’ll hit 20 plus jacks
Actually, he has an above average bat.
Hicks is the Yankees projected CF and Cash in enamored with him. If the Yanks add an infielder it will probably a cheap FA add…
That’s fine just throwing out ideas that work with both teams payroll limitations.
For those who keep mentioning Shark he has a trade option he has a full no trade clause and has repeatly said he will not wave it. He absolutely loves SF.
The Giants need Joe Panik — their Gold Glove All Star second baseman under team control for three years — more than they need two years of Aaron Hicks.
The Giants badly need a CF. The whole reason for the post. If their unwilling to go over the tax the only option is to trade a player of value. Panic is really the only player on the 25 man who has trade value they would be possibly willing to move. That’s why I advocate they just go over the tax sign a cf not named Cain and a 5m back end starter
I believe Panic is 1 of SF’s best players & I would not trade him. Panic will hit .290+ with 80+ rib. And he’s a great defensive player & rarely strikes out. Time to trade Belt. Dude can’t hit a fastball & its time to move Buster to 1st base anyway. Trade Belt & a prospect to Cincinnati for Hamilton & a dominant relief pitcher.
Gardy is going nowhere! He provides speed and quality defense and is already figured in the budget…
This has no chance I know, but how’s this for an outside the box thought from one of those “optimistic” Yankees fans hoping to jettison Ellsbury’s contract. How about making Ellsbury a $5-8 million per player for SF, taking back someone like Will Smith who cost peanuts in the pen, and then trading Drob’s $13m in order to sign Darvish? This would shed somewhere between $15 to $20m in net salary. Am I a total bozo for dreaming this, or am I just certifiably crazy? hehehe…..
Man that Ellsbury deal is terrible.
Will Smith is not getting traded
Yup, why would the Giants trade a guy who’s been one of the more consistent RP the last several years for a below average defender with an albatross of a contract?
Mr. Adams, Herrera intrigued me. Great defender with power. And yes, the giants probably couldn’t provide value in a trade. My question (anyone else with knowledge feel free to answer), Herrera makes $3.35 million in 2018 but $28.9 total thru 2021 and even though the 18 salary fits under the tax threshold for the Giants, wouldn’t the salary of concern be the AAV? So we aren’t looking at $3.35 million. We’d be looking at about $7.1 million.
Answers?
His contract is a five-year, $30.5MM deal. The Giants would need to move a bit of salary, yes, in order to fit him in and remain under the luxury tax. Probably should’ve been more clear on that. I was finishing this up late at night, as you can tell by the timestamp on it, ha.
I’ll add a note indicating as much. Again, moving Sam Dyson would allow them to fit Herrera in there, but I do think they’d need a third team, because he’s a strong piece for the Phillies,and I think they’d only move him for a clear mid-rotation answer. Ty Blach, Chris Stratton and Tyler Beede are not that.
Herrera was largely included because it’s easy to see a situation in which he is available, and he does present an on-paper fit. (SImilar to Taylor)
No need to apologize. PLUS, you are willing to respond on these posts. You sir are outstanding.
Btw, I really don’t mind if they use beede as a trade chip. It appears that Suarez has a bigger upside. Better milb numbers than beede and he’s a lefty
Does anyone know the guild lines reguarding signing a player with a QO. Someone mentioned in another post that if the player signs for under 50m the signing team doesn’t lose any picks. I read thru the Mlbpa contract and couldn’tfind anything about a 50m limit. Anyone know?
I do know that the giants lose round 2 and round 5 picks by signing a QO free agent (eg Cain) and the penalty IS affected by their tax standing (3 straight years over) and the penalty is different (less) for below threshold teams or at least first offenders.
In other words, stiffer penalty for giants because of successive threshold violations
Read this. It should answer the QO question:
m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/qualifying-offer
The link says what I thought. It doesn’t matter how much you pay the QO playeryou sign. You still lose picks. Luxury tax team 2 picks 2nd, 5th round and 1m. Non tax team 2 round pick and .5m. Teams that get revenue share money lose 3 pick.
The 50m threshold only relates to the team who lost the QO free agent. If they sign for more than 50 m they receive a better comp pick.
You still lose picks I believe if your a team that was under tax and didn’t receive money from other teams you lose one pick not two. I could be wrong I tried to find it online had hard time.
I can see some of these trade possibilities i.e. herrera, Williams, Taylor etc. Happening more at trade deadline and the Giants just signing Austin Jackson or Carlos Gomez to give Duggar and Slater a short leash to begin season even if I hope we sign JDM and trade for a young proven CF who can hit.
Gomez and even Jackson will want more then 4.5 million for a single year. JDM is a pipe dream and will set them way over the line and handicap them for years. The Giants farm is to baron to get any of those Phillies. Problem with the Giants is they’re like the Phillies and Tigers a few years ago with bloated contracts of aging players. Sorry but keeping the band together will probably result in fighting off the Padres for last and trying to sell-sell-sell at the deadline.
Difference between SF & the Tigers & Phillies is at least SF has 3 rings to show. And I doubt SF will fall too far after this year. Posey, Crawford, Panic, & MadBum are all 30 or younger. Plus next year they will rid some big contracts i.e. Pence, Cueto, McCutchen. So they’ll have plenty of money for new, younger free agents. A
Giants are not going to stay under cap at least one more major piece will be signed through Free agency or trade before or during season. Sabean has stated multiple times there was never a plan to stay under the tax and if we are in playoff contention we will definitely be adding pieces during season so signing JDM is a possibility even Cain is as well it’s the qo not money problem with Cain.
Josh Harrison looks like Mike Tomlin.
Giants need an at or near MLB minimum salary in CF if they are to stay under the cap. Duggar might be mid season call up that fits the bill. Trade for Keon Broxton could be solid placeholder option also with Broxton offering value in future years as bench piece or part of a platoon. Giants need more athleticism which Broxton brings (power/speed tools but high strikeout rate). Not certain what the return Brewers would require. Broxton has one good and one bad year of defensive performance. I’d roll the dice that he might bounce back, believing it could have been struggle on offense that creates problems too on defense.
Why can’t the Yankees send Elsbury and prospects and half the money for next season to a team with cap room, who would include more money and get prospects from the Giants; they make these deals in the NBA all the time
I can see the Giants signing Jarred Dyson and platooning him with Georkys Hernandez.
that would truly be a sad center field…