Following yesterday’s leave of absence for general manager Sandy Alderson, Mets assistant GM John Ricco spoke with the media about the team’s status as deadline sellers and confirmed that they’ll at least listen to offers on top starters Jacob deGrom and Noah Syndergaard (links via Newsday’s Tim Healey and the New York Daily News’ Kristie Ackert).
“We’ll have to consider [it],” Ricco said of fielding interest in the pair. “For me, everything has to be on the table. But you have to look long and hard before you move a game-changing, top-of-the-rotation pitcher.”
Ricco, Omar Minaya and J.P. Ricciardi were collectively put in charge of the club’s baseball operations while Alderson undergoes treatment for a cancer recurrence, and Healey writes that the three will work together to come to a consensus on roster decisions. While Ricco was the first to meet with the media, it doesn’t appear that any one member of that trio will have final say.
The decision on whether to trade deGrom and/or Syndergaard is the type of franchise-altering move that can dictate the team’s success or failures for years to come. Both pitchers have demonstrated Cy Young-caliber abilities, and while Syndergaard’s recent career has been punctuated by injuries, deGrom is among the early favorites for NL Cy Young honors in 2018. Syndergaard has been out since late May due to a ligament issue in his right index finger but figures to be back on the active roster in advance of this year’s deadline.
deGrom, 30, had a brief injury scare earlier this season when he hit the DL for a hyperextended right elbow, but he returned quickly and without any lingering effects of the injury — at least as pertains to his performance. The 2014 NL Rookie of the Year has been utterly dominant thus far, pacing MLB pitchers with a 1.69 ERA through his first 101 1/3 innings of the season. deGrom has averaged a career-best 11.2 K/9 against 2.4 BB/9 and 0.4 HR/9. The right-hander’s 45.8 percent ground-ball rate is right in line with his career rate, and he’s also boasting a 15.3 percent swinging-strike rate and a 37.8 percent chase rate — both far and away the best marks of his career.
Best of all for interested teams, of course, is the fact that deGrom is controlled for two seasons beyond the current campaign. He’s earning $7.4MM in 2018 as a Super Two player and will be eligible for arbitration twice more before hitting the open market. Clearly, if he’s able to maintain anything close to this level of production, his arbitration raises will be enormous, though they’d still be a pittance relative to his open-market value.
Syndergaard, 25, missed the bulk of the 2017 season due to a lat strain but was sharp in his return in 2018, tossing 64 2/3 innings of 3.04 ERA ball with 10.6 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 0.7 HR/9 and a 47.7 percent ground-ball rate. He’s averaged better than 10 strikeouts and fewer than two walks per nine innings pitched in his big league career so far and, like deGrom, is sporting a career-high swinging-strike rate so far in 2018 (15 percent).
As is the case with deGrom, Syndergaard is a Super Two player who’ll qualify for arbitration four times before reaching free agency. However, he’s a year behind deGrom in terms of service time, meaning he’s controlled for another three seasons and can’t become a free agent until after the 2021 season.
In all likelihood, it’d take a veritable king’s ransom to acquire either pitcher — the type of enormous prospect package that features multiple elite young talents and/or MLB-ready assets who could immediately step onto the Mets’ roster. That type of rotation piece rarely changes hands at the deadline (or at all), and either Mets pitcher would likely be the most coveted starting pitcher available on the summer trade market in recent memory.
Both deGrom and Syndergaard are better pitchers than Sonny Gray, for instance, and neither comes with the contractual obligations that slowed the Justin Verlander trade talks last summer. Jose Quintana fetched a the White Sox a haul headlined by one of the game’s top 10 prospects, Eloy Jimenez, and few would argue him to be a more talented arm than either deGrom or Syndergaard (though certainly his durability and affordable contract made him a highly desirable commodity). Whatever type of return the Mets received for either starter would need to be overwhelming.
It should be emphasized, of course, that the simple fact that the Mets will entertain the idea of trading their top two starters hardly means that either is a lock to actually be moved. To the contrary, Ricco echoed comments made by Alderson earlier this month in downplaying the possibility of a full-scale rebuild. “I really don’t see that as a strategy,” said Ricco. “It’s not something we’ve really discussed, a complete teardown.”
Why trade one and keep the other? If you plan to compete, then compete. If you want to rebuild, then go that route. They need to pick a direction and follow it.
While I do agree, I wouldn’t mind keeping degrom matz and Wheeler and trading Noah. Matz and Wheeler are proving they are capable number 3 starters. Degrom is elite. You can sign a 1a or 2 starter to complement and that allows u to trade Noah and get some players to spruce up the minors and possible major league roster. That allows you to keep “contending” while also replenishing the lower levels. Noah when healthy is elite, and younger and controlled longer. I think trading Noah doesn’t leave a huge hole that is unfixable, and it will greatly replenish the system.
You’re also giving up a pitcher who will probably the best in baseball at some point in his career.
They need to hold on to them. The have 5 pitchers they can run with – deGrom, Thor, Matz, Wheeler, and Lugo. The bad moves have been the players they’ve signed for the field and being cheap – Bruce standing out. They need to spend the dollars now while the window of opportunity is still around, and do it wisely.
How far has that starting 5 gotten them..? SP way too unreliable. Mets need a couple young stars to play everyday next to Nimmo and (hopefully) Conforto.
de Grom is the only player that will get them a great return right now, Thor is hurt so he is under valued.
Trading a player with 2 +/1/2 years of control left doesn’t signify that you’re giving up for those three years. You’re still only giving up for one year. Take the Yankee “rebuild”, for instance, which took place between July 2016 and July 2017 (the July 2017 shopping spree ended the “rebuild”):
They traded Andrew Miller in July 2016, with 2 1/2 years left on his deal. They didn’t do it because they were planning to give up for the next three years. They also traded Chapman and Beltran (two rentals), then traded McCann at the end of the year, but kept everyone else.
That doesn’t mean they weren’t planning to compete in ’17 and ’18. Far from it: to start 2017, they had already re-signed Chapman, and by summer, they had also traded for Sonny Gray, Robertson, Todd Frazier and Kahnle (a starter and two high end bullpen arms).
The moves the Yankees made in a 12 month span netted them net positive value both at the major league level (Gray+Robertson+Todd Frazier+Kahnle > Miller+McCann), and at the minor league level (the prospects they got in 2016 are far superior to what they gave up in 2017).
The one thing the Yankees did though is spend money, in those moves: they committed ~$160M or so, in total, to the five players I mentioned above, while shedding only $40M or so (by trading away Miller, Chapman and Beltran).
So they gave up a weak playoff run (they were only a few games back, when they decided to pull the plug on the 2016 season), and $120M, to emerge a better team, with a better farm system, within 12 months.
That’s what the Mets should aim for. Give away one or two stars (they could trade Syndergaard as well) for prospects who are close, add some money and some trade acquisitions to that mix in 2019, and you should have a decent run. If it doesn’t work out in 2019, by 2020.
If the mets trade Degrom and Syndergaard they wont compete by 2020. Without those 2 you have steven matz and zack wheeler as your top two starters. The yankees didn’t trade away Severino. They can’t replace that much production in two years.
The problem with that thinking—that the Mets can just mimic the Yankees’ rebuild—is that the Mets do not have the talent the Yankees did at the time. You mention them trading away Miller, Beltran, McCann, and Chapman…other than Torres, is there any player who the acquired that has honestly helped at the major league level yet? No, because they had the talent in the minor leagues. They had Judge, Andujar, Gergorious, Gardner, Severino, etc. They had the talent in the minor and major leagues to build a successful club. The pieces they traded were for the (still) future.
The Mets do not have that. They don’t have a minor league system brimming with talent on either side of the ball, and their major league team is badly put together. They have two choices, really, unless they want to stay irrelevant for the next several years…1) cut the cord and rebuild…auction off DeGrom & Syndergaard to the highest bidder (even if that’s the hated Yankeeds or a division rival), and anyone else other teams deem worthy; or 2) keep their starters, and dive head-first into free agency, and don’t dare walk away with less than a Machado or Harper and then some. Otherwise the team will be a 70-80 win team for the foreseeable future.
I personally would not trust this front office with the power to trade any pieces right now. Their farm system is ranked poorly. How can any met fan have any confidence in the return for DeGrom, Syndergaard or Wheeler at this point. Not me. Just sayin’
This is why this organization will never rise to the top. Trade them both it really doesn’t matter this year, or years to come
“It’s not something we’ve really discussed, a complete teardown.”
It’s coming!!!!!!
Open a browser window at Baseball-Reference for the Mets Franchise History. Now open a second window for the Phillies Franchise History.
Notice the 50+ years of uninterrupted history. The Phillies and Mets always….for 50+ years……pass one another in the standings.
One is going up while the other is going down.
Two of the elite markets in MLB in the same division and they never, ever compete against one another.
Same $$$ as the Yankees and Red Sox with a polar opposite result.
Just a “coincidence”.
You put this on every post that has to do with The Mets or Phillies. We get it. Can’t you say something else?
It’s a glitch in the matrix.
What about the Machado and Harper reruns.
I’m sorry but I think you are forgetting about 2007&2008
Why won’t they block this jerk off?!
Because you can just open another account.
This Casey guy has been listening to a little too much Coast to Coast w/ George Noory and Art Bell repeats.
Space Ghost Coast to Coast was much better..
Phil Hendrie imitatipns of Art Bell we’re priceless too.
In 2007 the Phils won the division from the Mets on the last day of the season. That’s pretty competitive.
“In 2007 the Phils won the division from the Mets on the last day of the season. That’s pretty competitive.”
The first of five divisional titles in a row for the Phillies. The Mets just disappeared.
That’s the fifty year history.
The Red Sox defeat the Yankees for the division and the Yankees fight back that winter to take the division the following year.
Only way it makes sense is if they get back MLB ready offensive in return, AND they don’t trade both. It would have to be like the Lester-Cespedes swap back when the A’s and Red Sox did it a few years back.
Maybe take advantage of DeGrom’s stellar year and trade for a star-caliber hitter + other prospects. Maybe Cardinals could offer Tommy Pham/Paul DeJong and Gomber +?. From Cubs one of Baez, Schwarber, or Happ plus something else?
Would COULD make sense is the Mets swapping DeGrom or less likely Syndergaard, to the O’s for Manny Machado. It would fill a need for both teams: The O’s would get much needed rotation stability as they have the fourth-worst ERA in the league. Whereas the Mets land a superstar who, if the resign, could be a staple for years to come. And even tho the Mets aren’t the Yanks, Machado may be attracted to New York.
Obviously the likelihood isn’t that good, and im just spit-balling here. But if I we’re the Mets, I wouldn’t trade either unless I’m getting a proven commodity in return.
Yeah, not nearly enough from the Cardinals OR Cubs
Any cardinals deal will include 1 of Carson Kelly or Andrew Knizner
Any deal from the Cubs will most certainly include Happ plus Schwarber or Baez as well as other assets.
No way Mets swap from Machado.
Yeah that’s why I included pluses in my statement. Those are what packages are centered around.
But I do think DeGrom for Machado + makes sense if Machado gives some indication he’d sign there. If not, then yeah it doesn’t make sense.
Thing is Machado doesn’t have to and most definitely won’t “Machado gives some indication he’d sign there” because he most likely wants to be baseballs version of Lebron.
Mets fan since ’65 and if I was Machado I wouldn’t want to play for the Mets.
Kelly, Hudson, weaver and Tyler O’Neill for Thor?
I can’t make sense of trading either pitcher for Machado. That would be trading one of the best starting pitchers in baseball for a 3 month rental. WOW.
On the other hand, the Mets now have the Three Stooges running the front office without Sandy around to control things. Combined with Abbott & Costello (aka Mutt and Jeff ownership), these discussions would be great to observe. Perhaps front office meetings could be filmed for a mini series, “Flushing Follies”.
No change I would ever do that trade with the cardinals. Are you nuts ? The same goes for your silly cubs offer. Wtf is this? Mets need to trade him to the Yankees. They have the best available prospects and ready hitters in Clint Frazier and Andujar plus add Justus Sheffield to the mix and maybe florial or another pitcher in the top 20
Exactly, deGrom is a top 5 pitcher and nothing but a strong package with a decent everyday player plus a few top prospects is gonna get it done. The package the White Sox received for Sale was in the offseason and trades at the deadline have been historically steeper.
DeGrom might be the player that could pry Andujar away from the Yankees. DeGrom for Andujar, Frazier, Adams, Abreu, and a lottery ticket like McKinney would benefit both teams. Gardner has an option for next year and Drury can take over 3rd. Both teams lose and both teams win at the same time.
Wonder how a trade offer of Ronald Acuna for Noah Syndergaard, one for one, would be received.
Hopefully Mets would decline. Syndergaard is 25 with 3 and a half years of control and a top of rotation SP. Acuna is a top prospect who’s done little to nothing so far except be hurt most of his MLB time so far.
Acuna is a generational hitter. Just in terms of value, he has several more years of team control plus less risk than a pitcher. Further, a pitcher that throws max effort every pitch and is starting to wear down. The Mets would have to include a couple prospects to make that trade work, and it’s purely in theory. It’s why those types of players are never traded. Harper, Trout, Machado, so on.
Dude how do you know Acuna is a generational hitter? Putting his name in the same sentence as Trout is disrespectful at this point in their careers. Acuna is a prospect with a lot of upside but you have no idea what he is going to become give him 4 or 5 years in the bigs before calling him generational.
Yea, WTF. The landscape of history is littered with failed prospects that were labeled “generational hitter”.
Did you just make an argument that Acuna is barely healthy in a trade scenario with Thor? He is the definition of a health risk.
LOL — love this
You realize a freak injury is different than shoulder trouble?
Braves won’t do that.
What would a theoretical package even look like for one or the other?
i think at least the haul for Sale is a starting point in comparisons, maybe add another quality prospect to that, for Syndegaard.
Sale is better than Syn but I agree should be something near Sale package
Syndergaard is great but you’d be crazy to give up the #1 overall prospect in baseball and another top 20 guy for him. Would be a huge roll of the dice on his health. Sale didnt come with any of those questions.
This may sound crazy but i at least hope the A’s call them to see what an offer would look like I’d be fine parting with Luzardo and another top 5 guy
Trade deGrom and Familia to the Rockies for Brendan Rodgers, Colton Welker, Sam Hilliard, and Garrett Hampson. Mets need offense. Rockies have that in spades.
Trade Syndergaard and Asdrubal Cabrera to the Cardinals for Dakota Hudson, Andrew Knizner, and Ryan Helsley
The Rockies are interesting because of Rodgers…but remember what Boston gave up for sale? just 1 top 10 prospect isn’t enough with back end top 100 on top…maybe if the Mets love Dahl and think he will turn it around and you put him with rodgers/welker and one if not both of the pint/lambert…maybe but I feel like the Mets want two concrete top 30 prospects and 2 or 3 in the overall top 300
I don’t like trading with the Rockies, all stats are skewed
The Rox are 4 under .500 and fading fast right now. They are far more likely to sell than acquire deGrom. I anticipate a DJ LeMahieu and maybe a CarGo and/or Parra trade. Along with any reliever other than Ottavino that another team might be willing to take. If anything, they are far more likely to stand pat than buy.
They’re not going to rebuild. Do you know how much their bullpen is worth?
Your first offer isn’t the greatest but compared to the second offer it looks great. Syndergaard for Dakota Hudson? Hudson might be a mid rotation pitcher….
Cards would do that in a second
I don’t think the Rockies are one pitcher away, even if he is a great pitcher, this year or in the near future. However, I think that offer is legitimate and along the lines of what it would take to get DeGrom.
Your Cardinal package on the other hand is missing the top prospect type that it would take to acquire Thor. If the Cardinals could possibly get Syndergaard without including a Reyes or Flaherty, plus Hudson, Knizner and more they should jump at it. If I was the Mets, I would value both pitchers very similarly and be looking for a package along the lines of what Sale returned.
As for the cardinals I would jump all over that offer but I would think it would need more throw in a top pitcher or two more mid level pitchers and hell throw in jedd
Keep forgetting that asterisk*…
*Excluding Yankees because Mets’ owners , salty
Will the Wilpons try to cash out and have a fire sale including trading Mr. Met?
I wonder if the Yankees could acquire deGrom with a package featuring Estevan Florial, Brandon Drury, Albert Abreu, and Luis Medina plus an additional prospect from the lower levels of their system
Thing is the Mets have to many players like Drury as it is. Start with Andujar or Torres to headline a package then work from there. If anybody trades for deGrom it’s going to sting big time because he’s a legitimate ace.
They won’t give andujar/Torres…it has to involve 2 of the 3 of frazier/ Florial/Sheffield…then 2 more in their top 10…its a lot without andujar/torres but the Yankees have to consider it and if they love Sheffield with Stanton/Judge/Hicks in the of already and money to spend it might be best to trade florial and frazier plus abreu/medina or involve a 3rd team to get an IF prospect to the Mets and one of the two OF prospects to the 3rd team…
Mets won’t give up deGrom for anything less, and why should they. Can people stop making these lowball offers…
I don’t see how that’s a low ball offer. Florial has the potential to be an all star OF with 4 plus tools, Drury can play immediately and give the Mets an upgrade at 3B, and Abreu and Medina are potential front of the rotation starters. Plus another low level prospect thrown in. I don’t see many other teams being able to top that package
it is a lowball offer without sheffield or frazier added…the Yanks have great guys in the 50 to 200 range of overall prospects but they have 5 with torres/andujar/Sheffield/Frazier/florial that are top 25 ish or way higher young players or prospects…sale got the number 1 prospect in moncada and kopech a top 20 sp…for degrom you have to think in that terms…they need 2 of those top 5 guys plus a medina/abreu type to get it done…that’s reality…drurys value is not existent at the moment compared to the others…if he’s the 4th piece then that’s a great cherry on top…the Mets would have to think long and hard about this kind of offer but yours in a big name young player away from being feasible
Only way I’d consider Florial is if Frazier, Drury, and Sheffield are included .. I don’t understand why Yankee fans think they can get maybe the best pitcher in baseball for low level prospects and not much else .. you have all these young guys, what are you holding on to them for, if not to include them to get someone that immediately becomes you’re #1 pitcher and virtually locks up 3 WS in the next 5 years
“I don’t understand why Yankees fans think they can get maybe the best pitcher in baseball”..the Yankees aren’t trying to get Scherzer. “that immediately becomes you’re #1 pitcher” no that would still be Severino still regardless.
Severino is great but you do realize Degrom would be their best pitcher, right.
Degrom is having a better season, but you don’t know who would be the better pitcher. If degrom regresses just a bit pitching in the ALE he’d be right there with Severino in terms of numbers. Would be a good problem to have.
My takeaway from this thread is that Mets fans are just as delusional as their front office. They think no offer will be enough for deGrom and will probably settle for a compensation pick when he leaves after 2020
dp wright
You use the Sale trade as a comp, but the Sale trade didnt include MLB rookies of the year that are already established in the majors. It included minor leaguers. Any package involving Torres or Andujar is a much heavier package than anything offered for a SP in recent years. I hope you dont think Torres has the same value as he did 2 years ago when he was traded from the Cubs. Now that he is in the MLB, and showing that he is a frontline starter, his value has skyrocketed. He’s valued more than Schwarber was when the Yankees tried to het him for Chapman.
My takeaway is that a portion of met fans believe the fair deal begins with torres/Andujar. A portion of yankee fans believe they can take between 3 and 6 of their best prospects/rookies off the table and negotiate a fair deal. Then there is the rational groups of fans on both sides that say, Torres & Andujar are off the table, that is fine but the rest are on the table and the deal is negotiated there. If you want to use the sale deal they gave up the number 1 and number 30 overall prospects as a start.. The yankees can start then with Florial & Sheffield, but even then it will take a third piece of good value. Not a Drury or Reliever.
Also from a Yankee standpoint you can wonder if including Andujar would be worth it to protect the deep farm. The upper levels of the farm are loaded with talent that provides depth and flexibility every team needs. A trade for a pitcher of Degrom;s caliber depletes this.
I agree with you that there are fans with unreasonable expectations both ways, and that there is a potential middle ground to be found. However, would your proposal be just Sheffield, Florial, and another prospect? Who would be reasonable candidates for that third prospect? If you’re an unbiased observer with no rooting interest on either side, does that really sound like a return that would justify giving up deGrom? Honestly, it’s hard to come up with a decent proposal from the Yankees or any other team that, 1, would not be seen as giving up too much for deGrom and, 2, would seem like the Mets got enough for deGrom.
I could see the mets being enamored with a player like Acevedo with his power arm and then taking a lottery ticket on a teenage position player.. To your next question of course its hard! Rarely if ever will you see a trade that leaves fans satisfied, and they cant accurately be graded years, but that doesnt stop trades from happening.
What could make this a little harder for any other team involved (not just the Yankees, but especially the yankees), is that the Mets definitely care about the immediate perception of the trade return.in the media. They know that all the papers and sports websites will hose them if the return seems light and that matters to them. Being declared the immediate trade winner is as important as being an actual winner down the line
I understand the high asking price for deGrom but people have to realize that he’s not in his mid 20’s and he’s only thrown more than 200 innings in a season once in his career. 2 top 100 prospects along with a big league ready 3B and 2 high upside prospects in the low levels of the minors is a very reasonable return for a 30 year old pitcher who doesn’t have a very extensive track record
Yeah, you’re definitely taking a chance trading any established player for prospects; and any attempt to accurately assess them in the moment involves some degree of guesswork. Regarding the Mets’ particular situation- I certainly don’t envy their front office (though a lot of their problems are of their own making, and it’s baffling the extent to which they’re unable to get their crap together). You’re right that the media situation (professional and amateur) is rough. As you say, the need to be declared the immediate trade winner may weigh heavily in any decisions, because of the PR fallout of dealing a player like deGrom (or even Syndergaard).
All that being said, even if they were the Braves or the Royals trading a deGrom to the Yankees– it still seems like Sheffield, Florial, and Acevedo is not enough of a return to justify the move. None of them seem like sure enough things, even for prospects.
I believe your trade is fair, and pretty much identical to what i just offered. Drury is not a good fit for the Mets however. His service clock is already running and hes pretty much a known quantity. at this point. Not the type of player i believe the Mets would look for in a return. That is not to say he has no value, I just dont believe the fit is right here.
(To Ronk) Are you saying that deGrom is both too old and also not established? He’s not far removed from where Scherzer was when he signed with the Nationals in terms of age, and his performance has been good-to-excellent every year he’s been in the league.
Talking about Top 100 encompasses a wide range of value- two prospects valued in the 50-100 range aren’t necessarily that valuable; is it worth it to move a known quantity like deGrom for a volume of uncertainty? It’s a gamble, and I don’t know if the Mets are in the position to be putting their money on long shots. Any prospects they get in return would need to have some degree of certainty or track record, or they will get roasted, as Herrox2 mentioned.
I understand what you’re saying about Drury but it’s not far fetched to say he’s a better player than Frazier and Flores plus he would be controlled for 4 1/2 more years. There’s also no way the Yankees include both Florial and Sheffield in any trade package
@ G Vanlue I wasn’t necessarily saying deGrom is too old just saying that a pitcher of his age with only 1 season of 200 innings pitched who has never finished higher than 7th in Cy Young voting isn’t fetching 2 top 30 prospects like Chris Sale did. Sale was 27 at the time of that trade and had thrown 200+ innings in 3 of the previous 4 seasons and finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting each of those 4 years. Also Max Scherzer was a free agent signing so the Nationals didn’t part with any prospects to get him
DeGrom for Ellsbury straight up!
@Ronk- in his 4 years, deGrom has 2 top 8 Cy Young finishes and a ROY trophy; he does only have 1 year with 200+IP, but also another year with 190+. He was brought up midway through his rookie year, so there’s only been 1 year when he fell legitimately far short of 200IP. There’s no point in arguing that his career numbers are as good as Sale’s, because they aren’t. But, deGrom’s numbers are really, really good; he’s never had a bad year; and he’s actually got a lot less mileage on his arm than Sale when he was traded, which could be perceived as a plus. I brought up Scherzer not as an example of trade value, but to suggest that his age should not be an issue, especially considering mileage. You may not think he’s worth 2 top 30 prospects, but he’s got a lot of value. If not one is willing to offer a reasonable value, why would you give him up? Cost benefit-wise, does it make sense to trade a cheap ace for 3 guys who may be decent, but may bottom out as utility players or 5th starters?
@G Vanlue You have a lot of good points but one thing you’ve neglected is the fact that Sale is also a lefty. Along with Kershaw and Bumgarner Sale is 1 of 3 legitimate left handed aces in the game today whereas there are a lot of right handed aces. Also deGrom has had TJ surgery in the past and Sale didn’t. I’m not trying to discredit deGrom, obviously as a Yankees fan I would love to get him but he’s not worth as much as Sale was. I also don’t see any other team being able to top or even match an offer from the Yankees similar to the one I proposed
Mets have no one equivalent to Sale closer to Quintana.
If no one can beat the offer you propose, then they’ll probably keep him. It’s just not a good offer. You’re absolutely right that Sale is better, or at least had a better track record when traded. But that doesn’t have anything to do with whether your offer is enough. And I don’t think it would be, regardless of how dysfunctional the Mets front office is.
The yankees CAN make the best offer but when as you said earlier, your removing Andujar, Torres, and one of sheffield/florial the yankees offer can be matched or beat by almost any team. Also, a package centered on Sheffield & Florial would be less than what was given up for Chris Sale. Either way, Chris Sale was the Elite arm up for grabs 2 years ago, and now deGrom is the Elite arm up for grabs today. It costs a lot more than you would feel comfortable giving up, its supposed to.
In before:
“NO!! NOT UNLESS Torres is included!!!”
He’s never going to get included.
I’d take that offer, Ronk325. This is the player to cash-in those chips. Bonus: We get to keep Clint Frazier. Something tells me, it would take so much more to acquire deGrom, especially from Wilpons. They wouldn’t trade us LUCAS DUDA !!
You uncovered the key Xabial!
C-A-S-H
That’s the magic word in Wilpon World. Hal should offer Fred $100 million dollars. He should meet with him at his office at the Stadium. Perfect scene having video on the scoreboard with famous Brooklyn Dodgers on the scoreboard.
Then Randy Levine enters the room with armed guards surrounding suitcases of cash. Open up a few of them and once he smells the green he will trade deGrom!
Is there a rule against This? Because seriously, the Yankees should consider buying degrom.
Yes. Google Charlie Finley’s attempted trades from around 40 years ago. Commissioner voided the deals “in the best interest in baseball”.
However perhaps Rob Manfred could invoke the same clause and tell the Wilpon’s privately that there run is over.
They were bailed out with a loan by the previous commissioner when their ponzie scheme crashed. You read it right…it was their ponzie scheme as they benefitted from the years of crazy returns.
“You read it right…it was their Ponzi scheme as they benefitted . . . “
Silliness. Using your logic LBJ is responsible for killing JFK.
Yes flaw, they quietly funded their business with Maddoff paying them 18% year on year returns for a long time. So they benefited from Maddoff robbing other investors and paying Wilpon so that he could afford putting decent players on the field and Bernie had a great box.
No they didn’t win the WS—those are the Mets.
However your comparison to LBJ is understandable only in the context of the name you chose to be identified here.
Your thinking has a MAJOR FLAW.
You are in denial.
A visit to your doctor along with an RX for anti depressant medicine MAY work. If not, it may be best to check yourself into an institution so you can deal with your denial and pathetic rationalizations.
PS-the meds won’t work as long as you continue to look at yourself in the mirror.
“You are in denial.”
What am I denying, mikeyank? If you’ve got any evidence that Fred Wilpon knew Madoff was a fraud you should provide it to the local DA or US Attorney.
You wrote that “it was their Ponzi scheme” and no amount of verbal diarrhea will cover for the fact that you have yet to support that statement. I’ll let the personal abuse go for now, you’ve obviously got enough on your plate.
I always love seeing you guys ridiculous trade proposals. Tommy Pham and Paul dejong isn’t enough but two prospects who have never played a game in the majors will surely get it done? Oh boy.
Hence why no one on this site is employed by a Major League front office.
There’s no way of knowing that. Maybe there’s a burner GM like Colangelo..
I agree, Tommy Pham and Paul DeJong would be the best trade the Mets could get if the Cardinals wanted to deal either
Wish I could claim this was mine, but it’s from a post on an Orioles board last night.
——-
Understanding why Thor is worth less than deGrom in trade is not hard.
Thor has 428 IP the past 4 seasons and missed most of 2017 to a lat strain. He is on the DL again right now, has missed 5 starts already this season, and will return to the Mets until after the All Star break at the soonest. He has put up a 3.06 ERA in 64.2 IP with 2.54 FIP, 124 ERA+, 0.7 HR/9, and 10.6 K/9 this season. Great numbers when he is healthy to be sure.
deGrom has 641.2 IP over the past 4 seasons, he is healthy, and has a MLB leading 1.69 ERA over 101.1 IP with a MLB leading 223 ERA+, 2.14 FIP, and 0.4 HR/9 while striking out 11.2 per 9IP this season.
Over that 4 season time period, deGrom has pitched more than a full season’s worth of innings more than Syndergaard has pitched.
During that time frame they have very similar overall stats so who do you think is worth more? The durable pitcher with Ace stuff or the guy with Ace stuff who has been on the DL each of the last 3 seasons?
You can’t fault Noah for having so much time off. He’s golf buddies with Cespedes and has spent the past month working on his putting game while being sure that they both drink lots of water when on the greens.
Remember when they arrived at Spring training camp on white horses???
Jerry Dipoto already looking under the couch cushions for anything to land deGrom. Go get em JDP. #GoMs #edgarHOF
Syndergaard is on the dL more than the field. I wouldn’t trade for him at all.
quick write an article about the first half of the quote. pretend the second half of the quote does not exist!
a package around of Alex Verdugo, Mitchell White ++ could be enought for deGrom??
No.
Knowing that the Yankees won’t trade Torres/Andujar in a deal for Degrom would this deal make sense for both teams?
Yankees Get:
SP Degrom
C Mesoraco (shares the load for the 4 to 8 weeks Sanchez is out)
Mets Get:
OF Frazier (not a prospect technically anymore but would be a top 20 prospect)
SP Sheffield – Yankees #2 Prospect
SP Abreu – Yankees #3 Prospect
SS Torreyes – Good young player with no path to playing time
2B Drury – Good young player with no path to playing time
– Yankees get their stud pitcher plus insurance at c for Sanchez injury
– Mets get a stud younger RH OF along with 2 young stud pitchers…they get two controllable young IF at positions of need (2B/Back up IF) to give a chance to
Too little?
Too much?
let me know
That’s probably what it would take considering the new York rivalry. I could also see the Mets saying no Torres no way. And let’s face it, the Mets hold all the cards. Two of the top pitchers in the game under long(ish) term control? They don’t really have to trade either, and a least degrom could make a team like the Yankees baseball’s version of the warriors. Mets should be asking for a kings ransom and the Yankees should bring the treasure ship.
Sanchez injury is a grade-1 strain so he expected to miss 3-4 weeks not 4-8, no way they would want Mesoraco.
I think it’s too little… Frazier wouldn’t rank as a top 20 prospect. He has good power, and great on base skills (takes his BB’s) but his hit tool is questionable. I think that it wouldn’t necessarily take much more but at least another valuable piece.
Hey Wright-your length of time off the field and on the DL has made you totally delirious.
Not even half of your proposal would be moved in a deal. Period.
I thought the Padres fans trade proposals for Hand were wacky, but this Mets fan tops them.
I think that’s pretty close. Could they fit the salaries to avoid tax?
Yankees don’t really need Sanchez since Romine is hitting above .300. Plus Mesoraco I’m pretty sure is the Mets starting catcher so I’m sure the Mets wouldn’t deal him away
Ok people. Please stop with your crazy trade offers. Degrom should only bring in the likes of Clint Frazier, Andujar or Torres (we know Torres isn’t possible but Andujar will be), Justus Sheffield, and either florial or a top 20 pitching prospect. Only other teams that I can see making this deal are the Braves (which we won’t trade to bc they’re division rivals, not like the Yankees where we only see them twice a year) and the dodgers with the package including Alex verdugo, Walker buehler, and two other top 30 prospects. That’s it!
That’s to much for a pitcher entering his years of decline,cashman already said that Torres,andujar,fraizer are not available, they just won’t be able to workout a deal.
Cashman didn’t say that Andujar and Frazier weren’t available. “a pitcher entering his years of decline” not all people/pitchers are the same, deGrom doesn’t have that much mileage on his arm for his age. deGrom is one of the best pitchers in all of MLB, a true ace so it’s gonna take a great offer.
They won’t trade their extra base leader,to proven mayor league players and 2t top ten pitching prospect, it would be foolish for the Mets not to take a package of fraizer,Sheffield Acevedo,torreyes and Drury but that is an awful overpay
Lol wait for a pitcher on decline? Please tell me you’re not talking about Jacob deGrom or Noah? If Andujar and Frazier aren’t apart of any deals either then say hello to JA Happ
Very few teams have the immediate prospect talent to deal for deGrom. In all likelihood you would need a top 10 prospect (or two top 25s), a top 50, a top 75, and a top 100 or their equivalent. It isn’t all about the exact number though because prospect lists are a snapshot of someone’s opinion on a certain day (in other words factors cause players to rise and fall almost immediately when they go to print) and each team has their own private in-house ratings on talent. Teams use their own evaluations over those of the media.
In any event, the price for deGrom will be especially steep.
You’re crazy if you think he’s fetching 4(!!!!) too 100 prospects. Not even Chris sale got 4 top 100 he got 2. Please be realistic saying he will fetch a a top 10, 25, 50 AND 100 is a massive overpay. There is no comparable to the deal you’re offering.
If the Mets are willing to do business with their crosstown rivals, they could make something crazy happen.
While I want the brewers to land either….I don’t want to mortgage the farm to get either. The older one will be declining soon and the younger one is hurt all the time.
Not worth sacrificing our future….especially Freddy P.
Flags fly forever
I could also see the Brewers jumping in and doing something crazy and ultimately regrettable.
If the Yankees want to be considered they need to blow away the Mets and make it a can’t miss deal. That means it STARTS with Andujar/Frazier/Sheffield.
Yankees would also have to throw in Florial, Adams, and maybe even a major league reliever like Kahnle/Green/Betances.
Basically, the return for DeGrom from the Yankees has to instantly make the Mets a better team at the major league level. The above package gives them a minimum of 4 players who would immediately be starting and helping win games for them,
And if I’m the Yankees, I might even do that deal. DeGrom is the kind of player that doesn’t hit the market that often, and the Yankees one weakness is their rotation.
yeah just include judge,and torre and they might think about it. you people are insane. that would be an overpay x1000 for a 30 years old pitcher.
That’s exactly what I’m saying: they’ll have to overpay for a 30 yr old ace pitcher with 3 years of team control.
Maybe the Rockies could get him on a bargain deal, but not the Mets’ crosstown rivals. The Wilpons wouldn’t even trade Duda last season.
And Wander…these Mets fans are out of control after three years of abuse. Remember they thought that they were on a roll in 2015.
So Mets boys, you can also include Reggie Jackson and Mickey Mantle on the must list for the trade as they are available as any of the players that you are thinking about.
Warning: if you can’t see through the realities I suggest that you visit a doctor before getting behind a steering wheel to drive a car.
Nonsense. For the Yankees, deGrom would be an enjoyable luxury, but they have plenty of talent to be the frontrunners for years to come, without him. It’s the Mets who NEED an injection of young talent. They’re the ones who are doomed to mediocrity, if they don’t make some moves.
So, unless the Mets indicate a willingness to make a balanced deal, Cashman won’t even make an offer. He has 15 or so other sellers, who don’t have an anti-Yankee bias, to negotiate with.
Meanwhile, the Mets have 2-3 other options, at most, because no one else can afford deGrom and Syndergaard. So they’re severely restricting their market, if they don’t treat the Yankees as just another potential buyer.
Adam6710
Just thanking my lucky Stars that you aren’t the Yankees…..no 4 for 1 deals from the Bombers any longer….even for DeGrom.
These ridiculous scenarios are exactly how the Yankees got a barren farm system before…thankfully they now have the common sense that they don’t need to make these types of deals any longer.
Love it when these unknowing non Yankees fans put their GM hats on.
I am and have been a diehard Yanks fan all my life. But if you think the Mets will do a deal with the Yankees, you’re a fool. They’ll need to be bowled over.
If you’re going to give away the farm for anyone it’s for a guy like DeGrom. This is the Yankees best chance to win a World Series.
As for “what I’d do” as a Yankee GM, maybe you should actually read what I wrote: “If I’m the Yankees I might do that deal”– key word you didn’t read:
MIGHT.
I seem to be the only Yankee fan who is realistic here. You rarely get a guy like DeGrom for nothing. Fans who think they can pawn off only a bunch of guys the Yankees don’t want or need are the ones who are clueless.
DeGrom is an ace. He could win the Cy Young Award. He’s only just turned 30. He’s controllable for 3 more seasons. He and Severino would be a one-two punch that could actually put them on par with Houston’s top two.
Unfortunately, the stupid Wilpons refuse to do a deal with the Yankees. That’s why they’ll have to massively overpay.
Sorry I wasn’t referring to you.
What exactly do you mean when you say “unknowing non-Yankees fans”? Are you suggesting that people who aren’t Yankees fans are somehow dumber, more ignorant, or in some other way lesser than Yankees fans? Was this sarcasm, or just genuine and heartfelt elitism?
Just genuine and heartfelt elitism. Seriously though read some of these trade proposals on what the Yankees should offer and form your own opinion.
Well, good to know exactly where you’re coming from. I have actually been reading a lot of trade proposals on a lot of sites ever since the idea of deGrom to the Yankees came out, and honestly, I feel like the majority of the proposals have come from Yankees fans. And most of the Yankees fans proposing trades would love to have deGrom, but they don’t want to give up anyone that it would hurt them to give up. Why is it unreasonable to expect value for value? Do you think that people are overvaluing deGrom, or undervaluing the Yankee prospects?
deGrom is an ace and would slot in right on par with Severino, but some of these Mets fans think Torres is a mandatory starting point, and that just isn’t gonna happen. Yea there’s a lot of Yankees fans overvaluing the prospects for example Frazier being a headliner, and that’s just not true. Something along the lines of Andujar plus a couple of top ten prospects in the Yankees system is a good starter.
I think it’s totally reasonable not to want to give Torres up, and also totally reasonable to ask for him- and if that’s where both sides are at (at the management level), obviously nothing will happen. But, delving into a lot of comments from Yankees fans, many of them wouldn’t give up Frazier or Sheffield, let alone Andujar- they just want to load up a cartful of Billy McKinneys and hope that volume will get it done. Those kinds of prospects are in no way potential franchise changers- so why would the Mets (or, let’s say the Giants if you’re looking at Bumgarner) want to make that trade? There’s a sizeable contingent of Yankees fans who seem to want something for next to nothing- so it can really rub ignorant non-Yankees fans the wrong way. I think a lot of Mets fans are realistic (also nihilistic, pessimistic, and masochistic), and would be open to trades that don’t involve Torres if they included other things that are truly worthwhile.
Betances has corrected his problems and is alone worth 2 top 100 prospects. Why would the Yanks just throw him in?
Thank you!!! Someone who makes sense!!!
“Clearly, if he’s able to maintain anything close to this level of production, his arbitration raises will be enormous, but “ (sic)
Something missing, Steve?
If the Mets trade de Grom they need to get 1 almost can’t miss pitcher, maybe one that is pitching in the majors, and 3 three other top 100 prospects. The Phillies, Braves, and Yanks have the prospects they need, but would seem to be out of the running. The Cards or the Jays might be a good fit. Mets get Flaherty, Dakota Hudson, Knizner, and Mercado. Trade Thor to the Padres for Tatis and Gore, then get what you can for Bruce, Cespedes, Frazier, and Cabrera.
Sorry but tatis jr and Gore are untouchable.
There are only so many Dombrowskis in this league. The acquisition of Thor or deGrom would require that a team gut its top prospect pool. The Braves are one of the teams that could do it given their unbelievable cache of talent (12 prospects ranked in the Fangraghs list of top 131) and their current position in the NL East.
Devers/E-Rod, Groome, Chavis, Travis, an A ball lottery ticket, and Swihart if they want him. Would that get it done for one of them?
I know Swihart doesn’t really have any value so if they don’t want him, that’s fine but it seems like he might be worth taking a chance on as a change of scenery candidate as part of a larger trade anyways.
Here’s my trade offer: Addison Russell, Jose Quintana, Ian Happ for Syndergaard.
Here’s the reply: that’s okay, you can keep Quintana and Russell, thanks.
But Ian Happ is a nice start. Come up with something of actual value to add to that, and then call us back.
Exactly stansfield123….Quintana has shown to be an enormously over hyped mid rotation pitcher, at least for the time based on his showing so far, rather than the absolute #1 top of the rotation guy who was over-hyped by White Sox fans on these pages prior to the trade to the Cubs.
And, if the Cubs don’t want Russell, why would the Mets want to build around him?
Lol at the prices being thrown around. Here are the high end names actually available, from the Yankee farm system:
Clint Frazier.
Drury
Abreu
Adams
Medina
Fleicer Perez
Kahnle
Bird, Montgomery, Loaisiga, Andujar as maybes (only for a top tier player with plenty of control left, and only if the circumstances are absolutely right….for instance, Bird would only go if the Yanks get Brandon Belt, Andujar if they get Machado…a Machado who came to his senses and is back playing the position he can actually field well).
Other notable names, that have trade value and are available: Medina, Austin, Acevedo, Tate, McKinney, German, Gallegos, Heller, Estrada.
And those two lists contain EVERYTHING the Yankees need to make competitive offers for anyone who might be available. So they have absolutely no reason to shop players who slot into the major league roster at any point in the next couple of years (Sheffield, Florial)…let alone key members of the current team, like Torres. (or Bird and Andujar, unless there’s a better player to replace them).
I’m new to posting stuff, so I can be far off. Who out there can offer a better package then Montgomery, andujar, Sheffield, McKinney & Frazier plus a lotto ticket? Atlanta? They are in the same division. Dodgers? Please not Red Sox
You lost all credibility by including McKinney, and for the last time Florial is not close like Sheffield. Why don’t you just list the whole AA-AAA roster.
“So they have absolutely no reason to shop players who slot into the major league roster at any point in the next couple of years”
Turns out those are the type of players other teams are looking for…
Are you addressing my post?
haha no, i think i was really agreeing with you. I was addressing Stansfield’s statement that the Yankees “have absolutely no reason to shop players who slot into the major league roster at any point in the next couple of years”. Hard to trade if you take any potential future Major League contributor off the table am i right?
You are definitely on point. Plus there’s a certain Shortstop in Baltimore that worships Arod and will lean towards whatever advice he gives him.
It’s sad to think anyone can worship a life of lies like A-Rod.
Guy seems to be doing pretty good. Well at least he finally came clean. Get over it already.
He came clean when the feds threatened him with jail time. He “came clean” in 09 and lied….he is a perpetual liar.
Ever hear of Taylor Hooton?
Kinda old news
When you look the youth of America in the eyes, when you ask them to sign pledges with you to stay clean and paly fair, when you swear to them you have changed your life and the entire time you are lying through your teeth….it remains relevant….old or not. To this day I don’t think he has ever apologized to Taylor’s father. He’s scum and deserves scorn, Have a nice day
That’s not very Christian, now is it. Life is to short to have such hate for things you cant do anything about. Grab a brew and just relax.
I don’t drink nor do I pray…..and especially don’t take advice from internet posters. I do however hold a loathing for someone who can blatantly lie to kids while pretending to honor the memory of a young man who died do to the same crap A-rod was doing. That takes a gutless human being to do that.
you’re hilarious
What in the world do any of your posts have to do with the Mets being open to trading deGrom?
I read you have been identified today. Its over Cooper.
Just call me Bob for short.
Yankees are the best match but the Mets and Yankees will never do a deal
Yankees would do a deal in a heartbeat it’s the Mets that probably won’t deal with the Yankees unless they grossly overpay.
How’s about Degrom to the braves for Allord Riley gohara pache.
If I am the Braves I offer the Mets for deGrom Kyle Wright, Luiz Gohara,Ian Anderson, Christian Pache,Joey Wentz. These are 3rd 4th 5th,9th and 10th ranked prospects according to MLB.com
I think with Gohara’s issues this year he might hurt this trade. I’d look into trading them
Allard, Anderson, Pache, Riley, and Carmargo.
Allard can fill their SP needs this year. Riley can be a September call up and starter next year. Anderson, Pache are both 2+ away and will be needed then. Camargo and step in and play right away. If they don’t want Car then find a 5th piece to agree on.
I would avoid using: Wright, Soroka, Waters
Soroka being on the 60 Day DL with shoulder issues probably sinks his vaule
One would think that but his performance with healthy, could keep it up. He’s only on the 60 day because they want to give him over the amount of recovery time since it flared up again and he’s so young.
Anderson and Allard would be the targets!
No way on Allard I’d say
IMO, Riley is untouchable. He’s handled AA and AAA very well and should slot in at 3B to start 2019.
I fear that Riley strikes out way too much and doesn’t walk enough. That could even out as he grows as a hitter and player but the sign is there right now. It doesn’t hurt to grab a true ace and look for a 3rd basemen elsewhere.
I don’t see the Mets trading within the division or with the Yanks.
Also it’s funny Met fans thinking they will get Gleyber Torres and tons more. Yeah degrom is great but he’s not young( 30). The Yankees shouldn’t trade a player who could be a star for the next 7 years vs 2 years of a pitcher.
Pitchers are always risks, but deGroms age is being significantly overrated. He’s about 4 years younger than Scherzer- would you be afraid of getting the last 4 years of Scherzer? His performance over his career has not been that far off. If you look at career FIP, de Grom would actually rank ahead of Scherzer on the list of active career leaders- except that he doesn’t qualify, because he hasn’t even pitched 1000 MLB innings. Which is to say, his mileage is low.
deGrom has 2 1/2 years of control and is one of the top five pitchers in the NL. It will and should take a steep package to get him, and please Yankees fans stop with the age junk.
I’d tell the Mets anything you want for degrom. Kyle Lewis/Evan white/fila/voglebach/heredia. Hey it worked in the show…
Degrom is the move that will put the yankees over the top, like the verlander deal for the Astros. The rotation becomes an absolute strength. The Yankees know they are great now, but bringing in a Cy Young Candidate midseason would make them feel undeniable in their quest for another World Series. Any and all players not on the active 25 man roster should be available. Even if you feel like you are surrendering too much talent, it can be the move that wins the world series. Would trading for Verlander worked better than the lesser trade for Gray?
All these yanks fans are delusional. If you don’t include Torres your not getting deGrom. Plain and simple. If you look at the Quintana and Verlander trades as comps it would take Torres, Frazier, Sheffield to start maybe more. I love how how these yanks fans think we want garbage prospects to get the nl cry young favorite. You have to give to get. Trades aren’t rocket science
Its not delusional for a playoff team to refuse to deal a young player who becomes and everyday producer. It would be like other teams asking for Brandon Nimmo while the Mets were in a pennant race. Theres no doubt the mets would have Nimmo untouchable right now.
I also remember the mets having to tell quite a few teams that rookie SP Noah Syndergaard was untouchable in 2015 when the mets were trying to upgrade their roster at the trade deadline. This is a comparable situation.
Those two trades you use as examples didn’t include a Major League starting position player, just prospects.
If the Mets trade these guys who takes their spots in the Mets rotation. All your trade rumors don’t address that issue.
Congrats MLBTR. I have never seen your articles listed on the Google news page but you are the first deGrom, Syndergaard story today. Their algorithms approve.
Would this be a bad deal ?
Yankees get deGrom
Mets get Frazier, Drury, Sheffield, Abreu and Austin
Add Andujar for Drury and I think they might!
no much better why they just include both! so the mutts can think about it
You have a solid outline here in Frazier, Sheffield, and Abreu. The mets would likely have little to no interest in Drury & Austin. They will not be your throw in pieces. Drury’s service clock has already started ticking and hes shown to be a competent, yet average player. A chuck of his time before free agent eligibility is already spent, another chunk will be spent through a Met’s rebuild.
You have the core of a good deal, throw in a lottery ticket in A ball and this deal will definitely have John Ricco’s (or whoever may be running the Mets in a few weeks – who knows?) attention.
Mariners should use this to create a package that includes cano to move him out of the system and back to NY, they may not have a ton of prospects but might be able to do it if they eat some money.
If there was a list of teams that would or even could take Cano, The Mets would likely be last on that list. Not even sure there would be a list at all. No team is going to take a suspended/hurt Robby Cano who just got popped for PED’s, and cross their fingers that his aging body can hold up and provide value that even comes close to matching the money on the back end of his bloated deal.
Would Braves be willing to part with Ender in a potential Degrom trade? Maybe grab Degrom plus a RP by throwing in Ender plus?
I wonder if the Mets would be interested in a package evolving around (Red Sox) Jay Groome and Michael Chavis for DeGrom. I bet they could get better, but as a Sox fan, I’d love to have DeGrom on my team like many other fans.
Groome and Chavis have their own respective problems but they have pretty good upside.
Would a package that had sonny gray ,Frazier, andujar and Tyler Austin get the job done
I’m a yankee fan and I can tell you that is a hell no
They would want Sheffield instead of gray and most likely another good prospect for Austin
“Both deGrom and Syndergaard are better pitchers than Sonny Gray”. Understatement of the year right there. Yankees wish MLB had a lemon law similar to most states relative to used cars. Beane should get an extension just for pulling off that highjacking despite the fact the return wasn’t necessarily considered a “haul”.
Been through this before. If you trade either DeGrom or Syndergaard, please bring back more than Pat Zachary, Steve Henderson, Doug Flynn, and Dan Norman.. Major league ready starter. Two AAA outfielders with some pop and some speed. a good glove second base prospect who hit .238 lifetime (.560 OPS ) in the majors. The Mets sucked after they did that, and oh, by the way, lost their Stopper (for the younger kids out there, the pitcher who teams rely on to stop losing streaks). Seaver left and Koosman stayed and Kooz went 8-20 that year in 1977 and followed it with a 3-15 season. So much for bringing back a haul in prospects.
Zachary, Henderson, Flynn, and Norman, talk about bad memories…
Braves send Acuna, Swanson, Toussaint, Fried and McCarthy to Mets for deGrom, Syndergaard and Conforto.
So many of these Yankees proposals don’t seem to acknowledge what the Mets would be looking for. Clint Frazier would be just as blocked at the ML level in Queens as in the Bronx – Nimmo and Conforto are building blocks, and Cespedes and Bruce have huge contracts that aren’t gonna just sit on the bench as 5th outfielders. If the Mets are gonna trade either deGrom or Syndegaard, they’re gonna want players that will help at places they have no depth at – so you’re looking at starters, 3B, or 2B(Cabrera is a pending FA). If you’re not sending them talent at those spots then I don’t see why they’d be looking to do a deal.
If they were a normal big market with normal ownership, the Mets conducting a full rebuild would be a no brainer. But, as long as the Wilpons own the team, it’s not surprising the Mets are hesitant. As organized, the Mets aren’t capable of a true rebuild. That involves ownership buying in (literally) to a strategic multi-year plan, with funding, and includes more than selling off name players for some name prospects, but tireless scouting on all levels, aggressive player acquisition understanding many moves will not pan out, and quality player development and evaluation. Wilpons’ don’t even budget year to year and have never funded much below the major league level. Further, they want to be involved in almost every transaction, with their only goals being taking any nickel they find off the table and not looking bad in the media. They won’t hire anyone who might fight them on this. Full rebuilds, without complete fan abandonment, require a trust between a team and its fans. It’s not there, the opposite, and for good reason.
Even without a full rebuild, NS will hit FA at an age that precludes the Mets signing him at that point (unless his arm has fallen off) because he’ll be seeking a longer term contract than the Wilpons will ever approve. Knowing that, and also that the Mets won’t do an early extension, there is no reason not to trade him whenever his next peak in value occurs (obviously not while he’s hurt). With deGrom, it’s less clear. Three years older, it’s possible. Plus, he may be signed as cover for trading NS. But it will likely be an abortion of contract, tortured like Cespedes’ initial deal so that it ends up costing more in the end and, of course, back loaded so it will still be an excuse not to spend 10 years from now.
So are you bullish or bearish on the future for the Mets, then? Hard to tell. Anyway, it is painful and bizarre to witness the dysfunction of the organization, and the way they seem to willfully cultivate an antagonistic relationship with the media (which is gleefully reciprocated). All that being said, even if nothing much changes with the ownership and front office, all is not as bleak as it seems. The Mets have had a season and a half when almost nothing has seemed to go right; and it has coincided with a period when things are working out swimmingly for the Yankees. But, things can change quickly. If they don’t sell off and invest wisely in free agents in the coming offseason, they could still be a solid enough team. They really do have some decent young players that should continue to get better; and a lot of the older players (with the exception of Bruce and Cespedes) will come off the books at the end of the year. And if they do trade deGrom or Syndergaard, it will hurt in the short term but ideally pay off in the not-t00-distant future.
I don’t think they’ve had any bad luck, just predictably bad results when you don’t complete the roster to compete and HOPE that things go better on the injury front than last year.
Things are never completely bleak in this day and age. A quality organization. isn’t required to compete for a playoff spot year to year. It likely is required to compete consistently as rosters roll over. My point was that a quality organization is also required to effect a successful rebuild, Because its harder than making the playoffs and tests every level of the organization. It’s a longer term process and it’s not capped (it has a life of its own). It requires spending ($$ and resources) without expecting immediate results, and understanding things don’t go in a straight line up even if things are going well. It requires ownership to hire the right baseball people and fund them an get out of their way (of course, not completely). If you’re not capable of that, then you probably shouldn’t try it. You may spend a decade in oblivion until the law of averages throw you a bone.
Take what the Cubs did. Cheap for decades, rebuilds always failed. A new owner comes in, wants a long term elite organization. So he hires a President/GM capable of long term thinking, and the owner agrees to fund the large budget he requests even though it’s likely to result in $$ losses, but also likely to enhance the rebuild, and gets out of their way except to help. They upgraded their system with the best scouts and development people they could find. They spent like the Cubs never have in the draft and with IFAs. They would sign FAs to trade them for prospects. They made risky trades, most of which didn’t pan out, but the ones that did netted them J. Arietta and others People say they “tanked” and maybe they did for a few years. But they also had a 5 year plan and the baseball people were allowed to execute it. They are not alone, but they are a big market team that recently executed a successful rebuild with no history of doing it (for 100 years at least).
How Much Will It Help If Either Right Now Or Sometime Before The Trade Deadline,Brian Cashman Trades Albert Abreu,Domingo Acevedo,Freicer Perez,Clint Frazier,Billy McKinney & Estevan Florial For Either Madison Bumgarner,Cole Hamels,Patrick Corbin,James Paxton,Danny Duffy,J.A. Happ,Jacob DeGrom,Chris Archer,Felix Hernandez,Tyson Ross,Lance Lynn or Michael Fulmer.
Syndergaard for a washed up knuckleballer. Lol. Dumbest thing the blue Jays did. And RA Dickey was never more than a number 3 or 4. Blue jays use him as a number 2.