Jose Martinez was the Cardinals’ second-best hitter in 2018, he has a .309/.372/.478 slash line over 915 career MLB plate appearances, and he isn’t eligible to hit free agency until after the 2022 season. On most clubs, Martinez would be considered a valuable building block — in St. Louis, he has already become an afterthought. Paul Goldschmidt has taken over as the Cards’ everyday first baseman, and with Marcell Ozuna in left field and Dexter Fowler slated for right field duty and hoping for a rebound, Martinez is now a man without a position, making him an intriguing potential trade chip as the Cardinals continue their offseason business.
Of course, there’s a good case to be made that St. Louis might not want to deal Martinez at all. Since Goldschmidt is only under contract through 2019, the Cards may want to keep Martinez in the fold as long-term insurance if case Goldschmidt leaves in free agency. Secondly, Martinez’s inexpensive pre-arbitration salary makes him a good asset for St. Louis to have as a bench bat. It’s easy to imagine the Cardinals hanging onto Martinez for late-game pinch-hitting duty, or the occasional spot start should Goldschmidt, Ozuna, or Fowler require a day off. Plus, should Fowler’s struggles continue next season, Martinez could find himself getting more regular playing time in right field.
There’s also the fact that the Cardinals seem to have already completed their biggest winter additions. After landing Goldschmidt and Andrew Miller, the Cards’ remaining needs are relatively minor — a backup catcher, a left-handed bench bat, and perhaps another bullpen arm. Any of these could be addressed in free agency rather than by trading Martinez.
With those arguments in mind, let’s now look at the case for why St. Louis might want to swing a deal. For starters, trading Martinez now could be a sell-high move. He was an unheralded prospect, who bounced around three other organizations (White Sox, Braves, Royals) before landing with the Cardinals, and Martinez didn’t really show much at the plate until 2014, when he was a 25-year-old on Atlanta’s high-A ball team. Since Martinez turned 30 last July, he doesn’t really project as a long-term piece for the Cards.
There’s also the fact that “man without a position” is something of an apt description for Martinez even when he was getting everyday at-bats, as he has been a below-average defensive player whenever he has played around the diamond. In 637 2/3 innings as an outfielder, Martinez has a -10.6 UZR/150 and minus-13 Defensive Runs Saved. He hasn’t fared much better even at the less-stressful position, posting minus-6 DRS and a -2.8 UZR/150 over 936 1/3 frames at first base. While Martinez’s defense isn’t really an issue if he’s only limited to a spot start, or an inning or two at the end of a game after a pinch-hitting appearance, his poor glovework makes him a liability should the Cards actually need him for an extended fill-in capacity in case of injury.
The Rays and Dodgers have both reportedly shown some interest in acquiring Martinez, who makes some sense on either roster. Los Angeles is looking to add some right-handed pop to its mostly left-handed lineup, though the Dodgers could be aiming for bigger-ticket additions (such as J.T. Realmuto or A.J. Pollock) than Martinez. It’s possible that Tampa’s recent acquisition of Yandy Diaz could have taken them out of the Martinez hunt, as Diaz is another right-handed hitting complement to Ji-Man Choi in the first base/DH mix and Diaz also offers more defensive flexibility.
The Cardinals also tried to use Martinez as a trade chip to land Will Smith from the Giants, though it doesn’t appear San Francisco had much interest. While the Giants need corner outfield help, Martinez would be a poor fit in the spacious AT&T Park outfield, and first base is already spoken for in the form of Brandon Belt (plus, Buster Posey handles first when the Giants spell him behind the plate).
We’ve already seen some significant action within the first base market this winter, as the likes of Goldschmidt, Edwin Encarnacion, Carlos Santana (twice), Justin Bour, C.J. Cron, Matt Adams, and Steve Pearce have all been traded or signed with new teams. Daniel Murphy will also be serving mostly as a first baseman with the Rockies, which addresses arguably the most glaring first base hole on any contending team.
It doesn’t leave much in the way of a wide-open trade market for Martinez, particularly since NL teams could be less likely to make a push given his lack of defensive prowess. On the plus side, his four years of team control could attract rebuilding clubs as well as contenders.
The Royals or Tigers make some sense as a Martinez suitor, though K.C. has a lot of right-handed hitters already and Detroit has youngster Christin Stewart slated for some DH duty due to his own defensive shortcomings. Martinez’s low price tag could appeal to the Mariners as they continue to cut costs, though the Cardinals would likely have to bring a third team into the trade to acquire Encarnacion, who obviously isn’t a fit in St. Louis with Goldschmidt on board. The White Sox could use Martinez as a part-time outfielder and platoon partner with Yonder Alonso in 2019, with an eye towards a more regular role if one or both of Alonso and Jose Abreu depart in free agency after the season. The Astros have been reportedly checking around for first base/DH help, though with Yuli Gurriel and Tyler White already provided right-handed bats, Martinez could be overkill.
Returning to the National League, one interesting option could be Goldschmidt’s former team. The Diamondbacks are planning to give Jake Lamb some time at first base this season, though Lamb is coming off a rough 2018 and didn’t even hit left-handed pitching well even when he was in good form. If the D’Backs added Martinez to the first base mix, that would allow them to situationally shuffle Lamb to third base, Eduardo Escobar to second, and Ketel Marte potentially to center field. While Martinez-to-Arizona makes sense on paper, however, one would imagine the idea was already floated between the D’Backs and Cardinals when they were discussing the Goldschmidt trade. While that doesn’t necessarily mean the Diamondbacks wouldn’t pursue Martinez in a future deal later this winter, Martinez’s non-inclusion in that initial trade could indicate some lack of interest on Arizona’s part.
Considering that goldy will be 31 at seasons end he will have one chance at a huge payday and as such he will 100% test the market. Because of this the cards trading Martinez would be a mistake
He was pretty bad at 1B, too. He’s not a bad player, he just has more value to a team that can DH him, therefore he has more value to the Cardinals in trade.
Actually he was better than Matt Carpenter at 1B and you need to consider that he was in his first year at the position with Jose Oquendo giving him daily instruction. His so called poor defense is really overblown as he made less errors by almost half than Carpenter who is the golden boy of the team. Mistake to trade him depending on Fowler to come through big. Even Fowler’s best would not top Jose’s worst in the bat department. People scream for a big bat and then try their best to trade it off for some questionable lefty reliever.
from what i watched jose is not a 1st basemen he is like a statue out there no range and can’t dig and his of d isn’t that much better. i like jose but he needs to be in the al where he can show the cards are doing him no favors having him as a bench bat also who’s to say he puts up the same numbers this year best to get value for him now while it’s as his peak and give him a better chance at being an everyday player
If you think Martinez was better than Carpenter as a 1B because of errors, then that just proves why errors are a useless defensive measure. DRS and UZR hated JMart everywhere he played, while Carpenter was just about average. Maybe he can get better, sure, but he didn’t get better with Oquendo working with him, and now Oquendo is gone.
People just like to hate Matt Carpenter for some reason. He had 1 more error than Martinez at 1B last year, big deal. His DRS is 1 vs -5 for Martinez.
Yea and that difference of 6 drs was over fairly limited innings by martinez at first. It would be more over a full season. Carpenter was actually about league average this past season at first. I’m not looking forward to seeing him at 3rd where he will most likely be in the bottom third of major league players at that position.
Sorry, but Martinez is strictly DH. He’s not serviceable in the field. So, unless the NL decides to bring in the DH, or the Cards switch leagues in the next 3 months….
Another reason to remove the dh. If you cannot play two way baseman, ie fielding and hitting
About the DH……..
Short of the Mariners use of Nelson Cruz in 2018, I cannot think of a team that employed one player as their primary DH (and the Mariners appear to want to get away from it in 2019). The spot is now used to rest position players from playing the field for a day or two, easing a player back into the line-up from injury – major or minor, or getting an extra RH or LH bat in that day against a starting pitcher.
In the non-DH days a player like Martinez would be used as a pinch-hitter in a critical game situation, and as a stater replacing a position player for 2-5 days that has a short-term injury and may be on the DL. Later in the game the player would be replaced with a good glove if his team was ahead. This strategy worked when a team carried 10 pitchers on the roster. The counting of pitches and overuse of the bullpen makes this more difficult to do in today’s MLB.
Nevertheless, Mr. Martinez’ most effective value may well be a pinch-hitting / part-time role unless he suddenly improves at a defensive position. No matter what team he plays for.
_ _
A note on the article…..
Mr. Polishuk put a lot of thought and work into it. Extremely comprehensive.
Speaks well of him as well as MLBTR.
wasnt JDM primarily used as a DH? if it wasnt for Hanley Ramirez and interleague play he probably wouldnt have seen the field very much if at all. I think his team did well, but i could be wrong.
I know they werentt great but i believe the same was done with Kendry Morales from the Jays and EE in Cleveland.
I think you’re right, but JD is still a much better fielder than Jose. Boston just happens to have plenty of solid outfielders.
You’d have to go back to 2015 to find a time when JDM wasn’t graded as a pretty terrible defensive outfielder. Yes, Boston’s OF defense is great but JDM isn’t good defensively.
4 Fielding errors all year… Hard hit rate of 40%. He hit nearly as many line drives as he did fly balls last year. The guy’s spray chart is 32%-32%-34%. Only struck out 17% of the time. Jose was number 3 in all of MLB in hard hit rate behind JDM and 1 other last time I saw a write up on that
And you Cardinals fans think this guy is trash that deserves to be buried on the bench???
What am I missing here?
Apparently Schildt and Gepetto think he’s a bench player too. They traded for Goldschmidt to play 1B, and Fowler is still on this team as well as O’Neill. So where do you think he’s starting? LF? CF? Please do tell.
Trading for Goldschmidt should not be enough to bench a bat like Martinez. You find a place for guys that rake, not start a slanderous campaign to fit your delusional narrative
The numbers don’t lie
case in point: Matt Carpenter
Well, one thing you appear to be missing is that errors are beyond useless as a measure of defensive ability.
The worse you are, the more plays you never had a prayer of making, so the less likely the official scorer (a job which has no qualifications to get and is a team, not a league, choice) is to decide you botched it. (And it’s entirely up to him to ‘award’ one or not).
I think 5/125 for goldy would be the low end of what he can get depending on what numbers he puts up this year.
That’s very possibly a rock-bottom starting point.
Goldy has been a perennial MVP candidate, typically an All-Star, and 3 Gold Gloves. He had a horrible start to 2018 and still finished with 33 HR’s and 83 RBI’s
He’ll be hoping for more like 6/170 or 7/190….imho
Goldy is awesome but he’ll be a 32 year old FA. A 6 or 7 year deal is highly unlikely.
Agreed. You said it, so I won’t.
No way he gets a 6 or 7 year deal. Hed be 38 and 39 when it ended. No team is going to pay him 30 million at that age.
Hopefully, Goldy will be the end of Matt Carpenter as the savior of the Cardinals. Forcing him to 3B will expose him to his shortcomings – fielding and throwing but before he is relegated to the bench they will try him at 2B and force KW to the bench for a spell. As soon as they find a leadoff hitter with some speed MC is a goner. As it is he only plays offensively about half the season and between whining to the HPU and milking for walks he adds little overall despite having snookered langosch into praising him incessantly.. Fire away – I am not listening, – just inputting my Christmas day greetings………LOL
Carpenter needs to be traded while he still has value.
Trading him to an AL team would be a smart move. If Goldy moves on they can find a 1b in about 30 seconds in Free Agency 2019 off season or in their minors.
Who’s a free agent they could get in 30 seconds that would be able to replace him?
Rendon + Abreu will be available after next season. Probably plenty of other mid-tier guys that I can’t think of too.
Just for perspective the top 3 1b in WAR among AL 1B were (3.4/2.1/1.9) and DH (7 guys 2.1 or better). Martinez had a 2.1 that was weighed down because of his glove. If he moved to the AL he would likely be top 5 easy in both categories.
It’s interesting how the Cards went from having a dearth of 1b options to where they were up to the acquisition of Goldy.
This article is silly, he is only worth maybe a low end minor league lottery ticket. No GM is going to give anything of value for an old declining player who only brings value at one position which doesnt even exist in the league he in.
0 value nobody wants him. Will be a league average hitter next year.
He is also a huge clubhouse guy. I think the idea of having security for OF and 1b and a quality bench bat outweighs the idea of getting a trade done. At the beginning of the offseason I said trade him. Get what u can. But now I think the best move is for him to stay one more year
…best hitter on the team; it’s ridiculous to get rid of him.
a nice bench bat…
a decent dh.
Yea a DH that can’t play any other position…not sure any team has room for that on a 40 man.
I would like Martínez on the Mets, he can play OF 1b and 3rd base if needed, good bat off the bench.
Marwin González is also a good bat to have off the bench
He’s horrible at all those.
He’s awful at those positions.
He’s terrible at all of those positions!
There is no way in hell Jose could play 3rd base. He would set new standards of defensive ineptitude.
3rd?
Probably best to keep him, unless an AL team wants to over pay for him. Seems more like a DH guy who can fill in on the field for off days and injuries and not hurt you overly much?
Martinez to the M’s. Has four years control and could slot into the DH to replace Cruz.
With Domingo Santana filling out the outfield with Mitch Haniger and Mallex Smith, the Mariners have the DH slot and first base covered with Edwin Encarnacion, Jay Bruce, Ryon Healy and Daniel Vogelbach.
Not much room for Jose Martinez.
Jose Martinez is a significantly better hitter than everyone you just mentioned sans Edwin.
And most likely Encarnacion never plays a game in a M’s uni.
Steamer projects 2019 wRC+ of 117 for Jose Martinez and Daniel Vogelbach (who has his own defensive limitations).
The last thing Seattle needs is another DH/1B type. They have Healy and Vogelbach (Dan is out of options), plus Curletta in AAA and Evan White getting close.
And of course, they still have EE and Bruce on the roster (for now).
Trade him for a case of sunflower seeds if you must. They have tried to trade him for 6 months. If he had value, he’d be gone. Then again, the Cards find so much value in players that they’re likely asking for 4 prospects in return for the windmill called Jose.
@Dave – . He’s controllable, cheap and capable of hitting .300 or over on a consistent basis . He’s great in the clubhouse etc. why would the Cards or any other ball club want to just give him away.
Der
Follow Daved…and you will realize he has nothing to offer to any post.
I have nothing to offer to you because you don’t like to read comments that aren’t skewed by the media via Mozeliak. If I revealed my identity, you would think otherwise.
You sound like a guy that doesn’t care that much about bad defense as long as a guy can hit. But that’s contrary to how most FOs feel, especially the Cards, who saw the effect of bad defense a few years ago, and publicly stated their goal to improve in that area. A guy who can create runs isn’t that valuable if he turns around and gives them back in the field.
It’s all about WAR and the WAR is positive for Martinez.
No. WAR is useful, but it’s far from being the one and only all you need stat. Besides he’s averaging barely above a 1 WAR per season. That sounds like marginal value to me. His 1.5 WAR last season ranked him 170th in MLB. Certainly he has some value, but that’s probably better realized in the AL where he can DH with limited time in the field, not to an NL club, especially one that emphasizes pitching and defense.
fWAR pegs him at 2.3. And roughly 4 WAR the last 2 seasons which consists of about 900 abs. That’s decent production but therein lies the issue of simply looking at a WAR number and determining that players worth. It’s clear he is a defensive liability that is best suited for the AL. His market is limited because of that. The cardinals may be better off utilizing him as a PH and part time player. It depends on the flexibility of the rest of their bench.
Then why trade him, at all? Your answer is also the answer to why he has limited value
How in the world do you know he’s great in the clubhouse. And, that is just a bogus reason to keep a guy. I hate that over stated reason to sign a player.
To say he doesn’t have value would be inaccurate. He had a .821 OPS last year and shows great contact ability and an above average OBP. He has no DEFENSIVE value but his bat absolutely does. Most of you are correct in that he is best suited for an AL team.
Most AL teams these days don’t carry a designated DH though. The days of David Ortiz are gone. Most teams use the spot to rotate players through to get them a partial rest day. There’s isn’t much space for one dimensional players these days
Any team looking at Cruz should be looking at Martinez. Teams are looking at Cruz at this very minute. The age and the years he wants is what’s driving teams away.
If you look for what’s being undervalued (dh only types), some team will take advantage, and as the price of multi positional players increase, they will look like geniuses,and will begin a new trend of the Regular DH (like David Ortiz).
Martinez has nice bat but a kind of ugly glove, no fit nice anywhere, not even his team. But I like him for a Padre. Platoon Meyers, Hosmer, And Martinez? Sure, 1B too many, but when can we enough?
Would be nice on the Rangers as a right handed DH to balance the lineup if they could move Choo
Move Choo is bad. He hits good and stay healthy. Need new third base of present, then concentrate on future, then win big ones.
Martinez for a Ranger, we say no. Why do you say yes? Keep Choo, sign Mark Reynolds for this year 3B, recruit for future 3B. Mash this year, maybe win big ones too?
When was the last time mark Reynolds played third base consistently 2012?
Play 3b everyday? Yes! Long time ago! LOL! Sorry, bad suggest, maybe I like Mark V. P. Reynolds too much? Play in Texas 3B for 20 games, 1B for 20, DH for 15, and smash pinch hit the rest. Can Dozier play 3B some and 2B some for Ranger? Then we all win?
Just wanna say kudos on learning a new language. I can barely speak 1. Keep on, bro.
Thank you, I am Korean and when I participate full, my English is second. Not good, but thanks!
Yankees showed last year that that combo gets you a swift exit from the playoffs
the Indians would have a slot at 3rd available if they could move Kipnis .
that would move Ramirez permanently to 2nd base.
You want Jose Martinez at 3rd? That’s about the only guy who could make andujar look like a good Glover at 3rd.
trade him for pujols!
OMG THATS PERFECT
He was “without a position” when he had one. The Roberto Duran of baseball with hands of stone.
It would be a mistake for them to trade him unless they can lock goldy down first.
I agree. Keep Martinez until Goldschmidt is locked down and Fowler proves he’s not continuing on his downward spiral.
I doubt Mo / DeWitt are willing to go 6/160 to lock him up. They’ll try to get him to sign a 4/97 deal or something like that, and he’ll be insulted (ala Lance Lynn).
Hope I am 150% wrong……But….
The same Lance Lynn who has been on 4 teams in 4 years since leaving StL? Pretty sure the valued him correctly and let him walk on that one. But with Goldy, I can definitely see a Holliday type extension, maybe 5/125 through his age 36 season? Seems like both sides can get behind that
If you think Martinez is the alternative to Goldschmidt, then this team is doomed.
The likelihood of the Cardinals getting value out of Martinez in a trade is not good. They would be best suited to keep him and use him as a pinch hitter and temporary starter.
Martinez had the 2nd highest OPS on the Cards last year behind Carpenter. It would be a colossal waste to regulate him to an off-the-bench role. We’ve gotten so infatuated with defensive metrics because there really weren’t an advanced metric to measure it with compared to where batting analytics are concerned. Yes, defense is important and Martinez offers none of it but the guy can really hit. A career .309/.372/.478 in 900 PA is nothing to ignore. If he can increase his power without selling out he could be a .900 OPS guy. He should be able to get an AL team that will give him 150 games.
Baseball Reference predicts Martinez for 2019 with an .807 OPS.
Who cares about predictions “. Based off of what? Being a year older? Have we gotten to the point where recent success is trumped by analytic projections? We’re not talking about 3 years from now.
It’s called exposure to the league. In 2017 he had 307 PA with an .897 OPS. In 2018, he got 590 PA…more exposure…OPS dropped to .821. Therefore, the prediction is he will stay or near .800 OPS this year with roughly 400-450 PA. Martinez has holes in his swing that scouts and pitchers are exposing. These predictions aren’t certain, but for the most part, they usually come close.
Zero sense for him in Detroit. He is 30, not the type of player they are looking for. They just opened up the DH spot for Miggy, no need to block it again.
Agree, he essentially older Castellanos. Good bat. No awesome bat. Bad glove here, bad glove there. We Tigers want one year big pillows to rest on for rebuild year. Root now for fun team, win later with young talent team. Mark Reynolds at 3B? Brandon Phillips at 2B? Who says no?
I’d say Tampa makes some sense. I heard a deal of Bauer’s and a mid level prospect proposal for Martinez earlier this offseason before Bauers was traded and I thought that the value there fit.
Tampa should seriously consider Martinez.
Tampa likes cheap jackknife types, with good mit as built in tool. That makes Martinez not a good Ray fit. I think he is a Twin fit, hits good for DH, share 1B time with Cron, hide his bad glove in outfield corner some days. If Rays want bat good only type, then trade Mariners, who eat EE contract some to make more Ray sized bite contract deal.
JoeMart for Gray, Sunny
Yanks already have a 1b men in Voit. Who’s also a righty.
Duh Yankees. Always has been. Always will be. Yankees Yankees Yankees.
Alright lets see if I can break the all time downvotes record.
Why do people worry about downvotes?
I want sugar plums dancing through my head
Did you go back and count those exclamation points, and the blind agreeing?
Waiting for Yankee fans to spin a reason why they need him, how he’ll fit and which 29 year old AAA player should be traded for him.
Yankee fans have actually been anti Jose Martinez. Have been since trade deadline.
Idk a Yankee fan that wants Martinez
Orioles, Rangers, Royals would all make sense possibly.
Orioles burn and sink, spectacular feat at same time. We like Martinez, no send him to that ship. Plus Crush has 1B, even though very ugly. Rangers have Young more power version, see Gallo. No fit, seat taken. Royals buy no more, WS parade still fresh enough. Wait 17 more years for big ones and compete. LOL.
Maybe Twins, we like? Yes, alot? Martinez turn trade with Maurer, new Twin face for at least a few years? Do you like, a lot?
We like Martinez? Yes, but we like him more in mid 90s. He out compete Rob Deer and John Kruk and start a lot.
In 2018? Still like him, but less, and only on sinking team need to fill big holes. How about Twins? Maurer hole left still, Twins patch and sail, right?
cj cron was signed by twins. he is a little worse in ba and obp but with better power. and defense seems a little better.
Move Martinez around, DH/1B/LF, swap with Cron sometimes? I want, do you?
Martinez has never played 3rd in his major or minor league career. He played 2nd for some odd reason once.
The guy can hit a little but can be kind of streaky. He just isn’t very quick on his feet a tad slow to react in the field and is kind of awkward looking when he runs. He can play 1st and RF if you need it but he really needs a late inning replacement. I worry that lower body injuries will be an issue in the next couple of season. So a move to DH is inevitable but like I said he can be a solid hitter.
Martinez and Wacha to Boston for E Rod Swihart and Mooreland
Lol Cardinals are getting robbed in this trade scenario.
No way the Dodgers are interested in Martinez. They like players who can hold down a position.
J. T. Realmuto does not hit LHP. Reverse splits.
Wayne Terwilliger recommended it
If the Phillies targeted him, I’m pretty sure hed have the highest OBP on the team. But hes kinda old. Not a power guy, theres more upside in NickWilliams. But a lot of GMs should be intrigued here..
A lot of the teams listed (Royals, Mariners, Tigers) don’t make a lot of sense for him, while a few teams that could be good fits (Indians, Blue Jays, Twins, Rangers) weren’t mentioned at all.
The Indians could use a right-handed hitter to balance out a lineup that’s both left-handed heavy and not very deep. The Blue Jays could use him to take up some at bats as their prospects develop, and then help when they’re ready to contend again (especially if they deal Smoak or in case Tellez can’t build on the end of last year). The Twins could deepen their lineup with him since CJ Cron doesn’t really move the needle. The Rangers just need more guys that can hit.
Not to mention that all of these teams are in the AL and could use him as a DH right away without having to deal with his atrocious defense.
He’s not a fit in Toronto. They have 3 first baseman and Vlad could potentially be the 4th. Scratch them off your list. On a side note, I wouldn’t mind seeing Martinez in a Jays uniform.
You’re right, I did forget about Morales. You could potentially squint and see a fit there if they dump one of their existing options, but they’re definitely behind the other teams I listed.
I agree though; it would be cool to see him playing in Toronto.
I forgot to mention this in my other reply, but I imagine they’ll give Vlad every chance to stay at third too. I’m a little skeptical he stays there long term, but they’ll probably give him a long leash there. The Twins are still in denial about Sano’s defensive home, so I guess anything is possible.
^Yes they will. In hindsight, Smoak and Morales are gone after 2019 which gives Vlad the chance to be the 1B/DH. Jury is still out on Tellez. 2020 and beyond the Jays look at the infield:
3B: Kevin Smith or Bichette or Vlad
SS: Gurriel or Urena
2B; Bichette or Biggio
1B: Tellez or Wall or Vlad
That is why I have Vlad as a 1B. But until guys are moved he’ll be at 3B for the time being.
I’m not certain the Jays front office can deal Smoak this offseason. They drag their heels. It would be beneficial for their future to deal him now just to give Tellez at bats, allowing him to sink or swim. As for Morales, he’s kept to mentor Vlad and that’s not a good thing. I do not trust any guy who’d break his leg on a walkoff grand slam.
It seems strange to be shopping a player that hit .309 last season, but if you don’t have a place for him then I would rather see him getting playing time on a team that needs him.
I didn’t think he was horrible in right field last year, but I guess the numbers say otherwise. They need more bullpen help, so that seems like the logical solution. He is a big man, at 6’7″ and that’s why he is somewhat awkward and not as agile as other players at those other positions.
Martinez and Fowler for Miguel Andujar and cash.
Nah
Why always look for move Andujar? Someone new possible, move Andujar. Repeat record. Yankee in good vector. Pointed at long sustain run of compete. Before, when always win with Jeter, it was surprise October man who usually made difference. BoSox lose Kimbrel now, Sale and Porcello later. Then window too open, or just big open? Core stay solid in NY, then young surprise man bring you parade(s).
Yankees sign big name sports psychologist. Next needed free agent move. Keep young man mind healthy, survive Big Apple lights. Gray turned gray in Big Apple, no repeat.
Yanks have a 1b….his name is Voit. That aside….in what world would Martinez get you Andujar AND we take on a contract for a player at a position we don’t need. How many comments did we JUST read that spoke to how he had little to no value? I don’t agree that he has NONE but no where near enough to command Andujar.
If this is sarcasm, then it went over my head.
are yankees fans really sold on luke voit being their 1B?
More than they are about a guy that batted .191
Why should he be dismissed? Because “experts” didn’t view him as a top 100 prospect? Tons of players make it to mlb and succeed but weren’t top 100 guys.
Bird is trade bait package with Gray. Only catch a big sucker! LOL! Move both two and bring in legit 1B, win now and later?
No thanks
Jose Martinez would be great in Baltimore. Martinez would flourish in Camden Yards.
I thought about the Orioles as being a good fit too, but they’re still stuck with Davis and Trumbo, who are both pretty defensively limited themselves. They could possibly cut their losses and dump one or both of them, but I’m not sure how Elias plans to do things.
Jose Martinez might be the worst defender I’ve ever seen in the big leagues. Guy has no clue on defence, though I quite like his bat – needs to be in the American League. Another claim-to-fame for Jose? It was his father that hit the ball that bounced off Jose Canseco’s head and over the wall.
He was not that bad in right field…is he going to run down balls in the gaps no…but he plays the ball well and takes good routes…I actually seen him make some damn good plays out in right field…plus I promise you he is going to give you everything he has…great player and even better hitter
He was less of a reliability in RF the last part of the season because of Bader in CF. He covers so much ground that reduces the amount JMart has to cover. He still made some bad plays and is better off as a DH, but I’d still take him over Fowler at this point. However, he definitely has some trade value that might be best to capitalize on if the deal is good.
Totally agree that having an elite defensive CF will help lol…tell Martinez to guard the foul line and hit…but he has value..personally I think he should be packaged for another bullpen arm or starter…Reyes, Martinez could headline a deal for either Kluber or Bauer
He’s not even the worst on the team. Munoz was by far the worst.
I can’t see trading Martinez just to be trading him. He’s proven he is an excellent pinch hitter off the bench. Personally, I think Fowler is toast. He’s lost speed which was making him take bad angles in running down fly balls. He doesn’t swing for contact any more and he has a hard time batting lefthanded against right handed pitching. The President of the Cardinals front office, Mozeliak, is going to make the manager start Fowler early on in the season. When Fowler never improves from last season, the Cardinals will need Martinez and O’Neil in right field. Just like 2017
Fowler has case of head. Bat good. Glove good. Not great, but goods. Maheny fights, bad communication made case of head.
He recover this year and be almost good. Then recover more next year and be good, all the way. Trade for peanuts, that is nuts idea! LOL.
But Martinez glove not fit here, not there. Move to AL for a fit. Get back more bullpen.
Fowler blaming Matheny was absolutely ridiculous. He was awful so Matheny had no choice but to bench him. Fowler was always a terrible signing. It’d be nice to have his contract off the books. Michael Brantley or Lorenzo Cain would have looked much better as a Cardinal. Have no idea why Mozeliak went hard after Fowler. He’s a terrible outfielder as well.
Is Martinez glove that bad ? Lmao it can’t be worse than voit’s ….. can it ?
J. Martinez is bad defensively in every way fathomable. Hands of stone, negative range, poor instincts and inaccurate throws. Strong arm is his one virtue, but if he can’t throw it here it needs to be, then a strong arm also becomes a minus.
He was not that bad in right field…made some good plays out there just can’t ru down balls in the gap
Martinez has started and finished just 38 games in RF in his career. He has played just 90 games total there. In that short time frame, he is a -13 DRS with a -14 Range total. Now, who wants that kind of defense out there for an entire season? At 1B, he’s a -6 in 118 games. In LF, he’s a -5 in 28 games. Only ONE word describes his defense. BAD!
He made 9 errors all season…
errors are not a measure of a fielder. It’s like the Jon Jay Syndrome. You can’t make errors when you can’t even GET to a ball or throw the ball farther than 75 feet.
@driftcat28 So you watched none of the games and are relying strictly on what? Total number of official errors?
Stats…metrics…or whatever you want to call them are great. They can actually tell part of the story. But those who watch, compare and pay attention using their sight can see when a player is actually a bad-average-good-great defender. And, it’s not basing defense solely off a highlight reel. Often, a player making an outstanding play gets praise, but routine plays escape them.
Jitterbug, as i call him, doesn’t go back on balls well, doesn’t come in on balls well and doesn’t go laterally well on balls. If you can’t get to anything, then you won’t be charged an error, but those who watch can see the errors not given.
only 4 fielding errors..
sure buddy, stats only matter when you want them to
This Jose Martinez is horrible narrative is nonsense. There are are plenty of worse defenders out there. Not nearly as many better hitters
Dude can rake, let him play!
errors are subjective and decided on by a guy hired by MLB who sits in a booth and makes these decisions. And most times, they will give the hit rather than give a guy an error. Stats matter all the time, but errors, like I said are 1) subjective and 2) can’t be made unless a player gets a glove on the ball or throws wildly to a base or cutoff man. Errors in MLB now have to be BLATANTLY obvious. So like I said, even when an OF makes a poor route on a catchable ball, he won’t get an error charged to him if he doesn’t get a glove on it. That’s Jose Martinez. Jon Jay. JD Martinez. etc.
How do you feel about Heyward? Seems the exact argument is made for him. He’s a p.o.s. bum because his bat is average. But he’s an elite defender so he gets to keep his job. Defense is a big deal, i get that. But in today’s world of horrible bats, Jose’s offense should stand out like Heyward’s defense.
Some guys are better hitters and others are better defenders. It just seems silly to be finding reasons to hate a guy. Especially one that hits as well as Jose Martinez does. Not to mention the guy is as cheap as they come with that holy grail of future arbitration years
And to answer your previous question, RF. I’d bench Fowler and play Martinez. For me that is a no-brainer
Were you this up in arms when JDM was a Diamondback? How do guys like Bruce deserve $10m a year but Jose is a bum??
When Jose Martinez starts hitting 40+ bombs and an OPS north of 1.000, then I’ll start giving him his due. Also, what league is Martinez in now? Lastly, Heyward’s offense is nowhere near as bad as Jose’s defense. So elite defender with average offense will play over a God awful defender with a .820 OPS last year.
I’ll take the guy with the better bat anyday. Getting tougher and tougher to find good hitters these days. A .300+ average is nothing to scoff about.
His OPS dropped 70 points from 2017 to 2018. Add in bad defense, and he belongs in the AL.
Martinez is marginally worse. You saw in the article that Martinez had a -6 DRS and a -2.8 UZR/150 at 1B. Voit’s numbers there are -5 DRS and a 0.5 UZR/150.
And what league is Voit in now?
“Cafecito” was not replaced by Goldy. Goldy replaced carp which moved gyorko off starting lineup. So in effect, Goldy replaces gyorko. Jose Martinez is not the cards 1B next year irregardless if Goldy leaves. He’s a DH through and through. Prob a top 5 or so DH if he goes to AL
Totally agree…I wish people would stop saying he replaces Martinez on 1b
Irregardless is not a word
Thank you Mr. Oxford, this is a baseball blog, not a dissertation on correct English. Thank you though for your help
Cleveland likes him, I can see them trying to acquire him and working him in at 1B/LF/DH with Santana and Bauer’s.
In that scenario, I’d prefer they play Santana at first and Bauers in left or right, and just DH Martinez. Either way though, I agree and I really like his bat.
If the Twins are looking to upgrade at DH, Martinez is the guy. Forget Tyler Austin or Sano.
Rangers? Get some at bats at 1B, 3B and LF? Scary on D, but still…
Another option is to ask Stanton to play 1B and the Yankees make Martinez the DH. Sorry Voit/Bird.
People keep throwing 3rd base out there like it’s just common sense. He has had exactly ZERO innings at 3rd in his professional career that has stretched over 13 years.
A presumption on my part. I should have checked. But, maybe dude should learn a position to stay in a lineup. Hits too well to be buried.
3 team trade…
Mets: Jose Martinez (to play RF)
Giants: Kevin Plawecki…add a low level prospect from Cards if needed
Cardinals: Will Smith
If not, the Cardinals need a backup catcher, though they likely can find that for cheaper w/o giving up a good bad/bad glove Martinez.
Martinez can’t play 3rd base Lol!
Romine, Bird, Holder for Martinez
Easy yes for the Cardinals
Jose Martinez for Matt Duffy.
I think trading Dexter Fowler for Matt Duffy makes more sense
Are you serious? Dexter Fowler is close to having zero trade value. Matt Duffy just hit over .300 and plays the infield, cost controlled and cheap.
He hit .294 with an OPS of a mediocre 727. 148 hits and 121 of them were singles. Hooray for Matt Duffy!
J Martinez to Baltimore for C Sisco?
Seattle will take him.
Cards get Haniger. Rays get JMart. M’s get prospects from both. Yay!
Not likely, but that’s my dream at the moment. At least the Haniger to STL portion.
Not sure why the mariners would give up Haniger and prospects for prospects. And what kind of prospect capital would TB include for Jmart? Not much. If the cardinals want Haniger it’ll cost you Hudson, Reyes, and I’d say O’Neill but Dipoto already sent him to STL but you never know w that guy.
HUGE overpay. Haniger should bring back multiple solid prospects…not a bat only guy. I’m a fan of Martinez bc a bat should always play in today’s league.
No team is going to give anything valuable to get him. Because if they would. A deal would’ve already been made. They should just hold onto him and use him as a pinch hitter and backup. He could still get 350-400 ab’s and be an asset.
Do you all remember when the Cardinals were a speed team? I sure do.
Yes, and I also remember when they didnt lead MLB in errors. Jose must go.
His dad hit the home run that bounced off Canseco’s head. So that’s a plus.
Keep him for now. He’s a great bat off the bench. Trade Gyorko, and stop using 13 pitchers. You only need 12, especially as the backup catcher is untouchable as a PH In late innings.
Jose Martinez is a limited player but this is ridiculous. This is why NL needs DH. In an era with limited offense teams need all they can get. Obviously he would be more valuable if he could field. Kind of strange he made it this far without a position.
I’m sure the Rays tried trading CJ Cron before they waived him earlier this winter. Him and Martinez seem to be very similar players. While Martinez is cheaper and under control longer he’s also older. I doubt Cards get much for him if anything. I don’t see why they wouldn’t just hold on to him, can always pinch hit or sub for a few days. Martinez is a nice bench player.
Don’t understand the hate on the guy’s fielding. He had 9 errors last year. 9. All year. Granted, he’s not fleet of foot but his bat overrides the 8-16 plays a year that aren’t great.
Errors are a misleading stat. Can’t make an error on a ball you can’t get to. His range is terrible
How much range do you need at first base??? 4 fielding errors all year. The guys is not as bad as you all would like him to be
****The dude can rake! How in the world do you justify benching a bat that good???
Yankees have Voit and Bird, but neither have either stayed healthy or hit well. I can’t see them wanting Martinez, but why not a three team trade that includes Toronto.
Yankees land Smoak, a good two way first baseman on an inexpensive expiring deal. Jays get Martinez, who can play first this year until Telez is ready to get to the bigs, and then take over the DH spot after Morales contract runs out at year’s end.
Yankees send out a couple of prospects, something like Whitlock to the Cards and Nelson to the Jays.
Not bad…but Jays want to deal Smoak to get Tellez MLB at bats. Martinez could hinder that, maybe. Who knows with this franchise….
Seattle makes a ton of sense if they find takers for Bruce and Encarnacion, though much less so now that they have Santana in left.
He looked better in RF than at 1st for sure. Still not great.
The issue is if the Cardinals want to add a backup catcher and another arm for the pen they’ve got to purge a guy or 2 off the 40 man. They sit at 40 right now and a couple guys like John Gant and Mayers are out of options. While they drop a couple guys to create space like Mayers or even (praying) Cecil or they could wait until someone has an injury and trade him then. They really need to move him sooner than later to create some space.
Absolutely right, you are stuck with Gant & Mayers on the 25 man unless you lose them for nothing . Somebody is coming off the 40 before opening day.
Put him in RF. Fowler is trash
If the Cards sign Harper, trade him
If not keep him.
As a Cards fan, I’d prefer we keep him.
Low pay, great value, nice insurance.
I can see him getting 250-400 PA’s depending how others perform.
If Ozuna or Goldie get hurt, we’d be happy we still had him, and I’d bet there’s a 50/50 shot one of those guys finds themselves on the DL at some point.
Add in that Fowler has to rebound, and it would be ideal to delay O’Neill in AAA until mid May for the extra year, and you have a nice option.
Plus, for a contending team potentially, having a good DH option could be the difference in a World Series.
I’d keep him, and get him as many PA’s as possible vs as few innings in the field as possible.
He can DH 10 games (40 PA)
Start once every 10 games (64 PA) just to get action and give some off days around the diamond
PH 80 times
And maybe get another 20-30 starts where he hits second in the lineup, and is then pulled for a defensive replacement in the bottom of the 1st, in an attempt to steal some early runs.
Thats 250 PA, while only getting a few hundred innings on defense.
O’Neill has nothing left to prove at AAA. He needs MLB at bats now. He is already on the clock anyway. You can’t delay it any longer.
MERRY CHRISTMAS CARDINAL NATION!
if Jose Martinez were in the al
he’d be a monster as a DH
but I guess no one needs a very good DH
The Stl brass wants to add a LH bat to a 4man bench of backup C, Gyorko, Munoz and JMart.
That already options O’Neill down, which makes fowler the backup CF’r. Bad idea just snowballing. Jose must go. Take what you can get, move on.
Anyone, and I mean anyone, who argues that Jose Martinez defense is NOT that bad needs to have their eyes and head examined. He’s bad no matter where you put him in the field. Don’t tell me about the stupid errors either. He can’t run. He runs poor routes in the OF. His footwork at 1B is awful. Shall I go on?
Carmelo Anthony anyone?
Why do you all love to hate? This guy deserves non of the hate he is receiving. He mashed and toiled away in the minors for over 10 years before getting a shot at the bigs. When he finally gets to the show he starts mashing at a rate that gets him compared to the game’s best. Just 1 & 1/2 years in and everyone wants him benched for making a total of 9 errors, while golden boy Carpenter makes almost that many errors in a single game and then gets all the votes for team MVP. I don’t get it, what else does the guy need to do to prove he belongs?
4 Fielding errors all year… Hard hit rate of 40%. He hit nearly as many line drives as he did fly balls last year. The guy’s spray chart is 32%-32%-34%. Only struck out 17% of the time. Jose was number 3 in all of MLB in hard hit rate behind JDM and 1 other last time I saw a write up on that
And you Cardinals fans think this guy is trash that deserves to be buried on the bench???
What am I missing here?
People are jumping on other posters who are suggesting that # of errors committed is the right way to evaluate defensive capabilities. Defensive runs saved above avg, for instance, reveals a lot more about Martinez in the field. Harrison Bader and Kolten Wong are both elite defenders and each notched a +19. Martinez is tied for the lowest on the team with Yairo Munoz, at a -11.
Someone above mentioned that you can’t make an error on a play if you can’t get anywhere near the ball, which is usually how it goes for Jose. He has poor technique, virtually no range and takes awful routes on balls in the OF.
Jose Martinez can flat out hit though. Nobody is questioning that aspect of his game. Comparing him to Carpenter is kind of moot, I don’t think you’ll find a Cardinal fan who will say Carp is good on defense. But he’s an elite hitter, the question is how many of those types of guys do you want on a club that was the worst defensive team in baseball last year.
Special hitters are hard to find right now. I wouldn’t be so quick to push one away
There are a ton of players in the league with starting jobs that are every bit as bad as Jose in the field.
I would much rather have Jose in RF than Fowler. Jose has a good arm and can rake. Fowler may run more balls down sure, but what good does it do you when you basically have an extra 9-hole hitter in your lineup? A 0-0 tie does you no good. it takes offense to win a game *This coming from a guy who believes in Defense Wins Championships
Plus Fowler’s noodle arm is never going to stop a 1st to 3rd runner
Jose has a ton of value. Not sure why Cards fans feel the need to bash this guy on his way out of town
I don`t think Cards’ fans are bashing him, but they can see the reality of things. He does have very limited range. His instincts are poor defensively whether playing 1B or the OF. His routes are poor. He is not very graceful. Last season was painful to watch early on having to watch many balls go by him at first that other, more athletic and nimble 1B would get to.
My preference is to keep him as strictly as bench player getting spot starts for days off and him to be available each game to PH. The best case scenario if they wise up and go with a 7 man BP and 5 man bench. In April, with all of the extra days off you don`t need that many pitchers. I would always rather have 5 man bench and have it be strong offensively. .
I would have to guess the people on here who are posting about errors and asking why Cards fans think Martínez is not good on defense is because we actually watched him play and you are still using errors to gauge fielders. Eye test.
The Giants should have traded for Martinez by now and in turn traded the farce that is Belt.
Plus they are not even close to competing, therefore the drop in 1B defense makes no difference.
I’m a huge Cards fan and big fan of Jose Martinez, and I would like nothing more than to see him in rf, with improved defense, mashing away. Unfortunately, he is, without hyperbole, the worst defensive player i can remember. He basically makes a mistake per game. Those mistakes sdd up to lost outs and then runs. He truly belongs in the AL. The problem is in the AL there are too many teams in tank mode that don’t want to invest in a guy his age.
I could see him as part of a package to Cleveland since they need outfielders and could put him at dh if his defense is truly as bad as I think. Maybe like Alex reyes, tyler oneil, and jose martinez, for kluber? Thats a former top 5 prospect, another top 100 prospect, and one of the best hitters in baseball (ratio wise) last year.
Would this be a workable offer?
Cardinals Angels
Harrison Bader, Jose Martinez, Alex Reyes with a couple A ballers for Trout…. just a thought probably not one of my best thoughts but still a thought.
Could be nice for the Blue Jays if they trade Smoak. Also if they decide to trade Pillar to the giants they could switch Grichuk to center and Martinez in left or right.
I like the Twins as a matchup Cron can play 1b and Jmart is good enough to spell him. Both are good hitters and JMart is crazy cheap
Taylor Rogers and Astudillo
For
Jmart, Mayers or Poncedeleon and Edmundo Sosa
Or keep Jmart and trade them Gyorko in a similar deal for Rogers and Astudillo
Rogers replaces Cecil Shreveport etc and can be a true lefty stopper with Miller signed to be backend and closer type.
Astudillo seems the perfect backup catcher with his ability to play anywhere and make contact as pinch hitter
To me as a purely bench role and pinch hitter JMart is fine for the Cardinals. Gyorko is replaceable by the flex of Munoz and Robinson
Twins or Rays seem the best options to me.
Twins deal matches up best and I think there is a deal to be made there from what Cards have and want and whatTwins have and want.
Even if it doesn’t look like what I proposed
And literally as I pressed send. I got a notification the Twins we’re signing Nelson Cruz
Ugh