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Payroll Notes: Astros, Indians, Cubs

By TC Zencka | December 11, 2018 at 6:01am CDT

The Astros began last season with a team-record $182MM payroll, the fifth-highest mark in the league, but after falling short of their bid to repeat as World Series champs, there’s a possibility that payroll could rise even higher by the start of 2019, according to MLB.com’s Brian McTaggart. They won’t extend beyond the luxury tax mark, but Owner Jim Crane is giving the green light to inch closer to the $206MM tax line should the right deals come along via trades or free agency. The Astros long-term financial ledger is fairly clear with only Jose Altuve signed beyond 2020, and yet, by this time next winter, Justin Verlander, Gerrit Cole, Collin McHugh and Brad Peacock will be free agents, George Springer and Lance McCullers Jr. will be in their final year of arbitration, and young studs Carlos Correa and Alex Bregman should earn significant pay hikes in their second and first seasons of arb eligibility, respectively. Still, Houston appears staunch in their unwillingness to deal top prospect Forrest Whitley, and the offseason additions made thus far have been measured – infielder Aledmys Diaz is pre-arb and catcher Robinson Chirinos signed for one-year, $5.75MM. Expect GM Jeff Luhnow to continue to spend judiciously, as there does not appear to be a knee-jerk spending spree on the horizon, though the possibility for increased spending is there. Now, some other payroll notes from the 2016 pennant winners…

  • Rumors have not stopped swirling around the Cleveland Indians since the offseason began, but as evidenced by Carlos Carrasco’s journey from the trade block to signing a below-market extension, anything remains possible in Cleveland. In fact, there’s no set number for the team’s 2019 payroll, per Ryan Lewis of the Akron Beacon Journal, as the team’s focus remains fixed on finding a balance between staying competitive with the American League’s upper echelon and maintaining a sustainable talent base beyond 2020. Cleveland’s payroll has risen to historic (for them) levels during this current competitive stretch, and there remains the mandate to shed payroll for 2019, but the priority, by far, is to add controllable assets for the future. While getting younger is an obvious side effect of increased controllability, youth is in-and-of-itself not the goal for ownership. Where the payroll for 2019 ends up is a flexible line, so long as the goal of adding controllable assets is achieved. This falls in line with current thinking that the Indians are less likely to attach one of their bulkier short-term contracts to Corey Kluber or Trevor Bauer, as either pitcher on their own will net a far more controllable collection of assets. With movement on the free agent and trade markets relatively slow league-wide, the Indians have the prerogative of patience at the moment, but as major signings start to trickle in, it will be interested to track the level of urgency in Cleveland regarding these trade talks. That said, pitchers like Kluber and Bauer will never cease to attract interested trade partners, but the window for moving a package like the rumored Edwin Encarnacion/Yandy Diaz deal may have a smaller, or at least, shifting window of availability.
  • The Cubs continue to target late-inning bullpen additions, a backup catcher and potentially a middle infielder, writes Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune. Any trades involving current players, such as Ben Zobrist, who is in the last year of his deal, or noted trade target Kyle Schwarber would have to improve the Cubs from an on-field standpoint, as despite their fiscal restraints, they do not appear motivated to move someone like Zobrist simply for the salary relief.
  • That said, the Cubs have a fairly specific wish list this winter after the departures of David Ross (after 2016) and Jon Jay (after 2017) led to a perceived leadership void in the Cubs clubhouse, per ESPN’s Jesse Rogers. One solution may be to have Ross himself, still employed as a special assistant, spend more time around the team this season, but the Cubs front office remains on the lookout for a vocal veteran who can bring some accountability to the Chicago locker room. GM Jed Hoyer dubbed their lack of leadership in 2018 as a “miscalculation,” as they assumed certain issues would resolve themselves because so much of the Chicago core had been together for so long. It’s an interesting area of need for the Cubs considering they have no shortage of veterans who, to the outside eye, might step into that leadership void. Presumably, veterans like Jon Lester, Anthony Rizzo, Cole Hamels, Jason Heyward, Pedro Strop and Zobrist provide varying degrees of leadership, and the more youthful Javier Baez and Willson Contreras also seem capable of galvanizing the team at times, but the ability to take someone to task is indeed a rare trait, it seems, and one that Hoyer suggests is more likely to come from a reserve than a marquee player. 
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Chicago Cubs Cleveland Guardians Houston Astros Trade Market Ben Zobrist David Ross Jon Jay

Retirement/Comeback Notes: Masterson, Wilhelmsen, G. Soto
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Post a Comment

80 Comments

  1. Ron marker

    6 years ago

    What no comments from pinstripes demanding cashman sign babe Ruth

    4
    Reply
    • thinkblech

      6 years ago

      Wiki says he died 70 years ago. If true, seems foolish to sign him.

      5
      Reply
      • Ejemp2006

        6 years ago

        Crisper technology?

        1
        Reply
        • thinkblech

          6 years ago

          The only true way to compare guys from different eras! Ted Williams, you, sir, are getting your head reattached!

          3
          Reply
        • MetsYankeesRedSox

          6 years ago

          Tuna fish Ted?

          Reply
      • stevebaratta

        6 years ago

        Babe Ruth is a dead pull hitter.

        2
        Reply
        • sufferforsnakes

          6 years ago

          But he’s got that launch angle thing down pat.

          3
          Reply
        • MetsYankeesRedSox

          6 years ago

          Lunch angle too
          Hot dogs & beer

          Reply
      • thebluemeanie

        6 years ago

        Fake news!

        1
        Reply
        • layventsky

          6 years ago

          Alternative facts.

          Reply
      • garybjorklund

        6 years ago

        FAKE NEWS !! That’s a smocking gun !

        1
        Reply
  2. Ejemp2006

    6 years ago

    The Cubs should bring in Rajai Davis if they want veteran leadership. Bret Gardner could be a decent trade target too if there was some sort of amicable way to swap with the Yanks. I’m not a fan of the Cubs per say, but it’s good for baseball when we get to see them get close and then have their heart crushed. A nice veteran pickup to help that happen? Sure!

    2
    Reply
    • Hiro

      6 years ago

      Really? Rajai Davis after the 2016 WS?

      1
      Reply
      • ChrisEnvy76

        6 years ago

        Why not Rajai Davis? They did so with Derek Lee after being put out by the Marlins.

        1
        Reply
        • Hiro

          6 years ago

          Ah. I did not know about Derek Lee one. Good point.

          Reply
    • cub4lyfe

      6 years ago

      That joke could’ve worked if that Davis homerun would’ve crushed us. However, it only galvanized us! Hate on!

      2
      Reply
      • Polish Hammer

        6 years ago

        He had to come up with that dinger to redeem himself, his defense cost the Tribe earlier in the game.

        Reply
    • mistry gm

      6 years ago

      The Cubs should hire David Ross …. as MANAGER.

      3
      Reply
      • Honestabe

        6 years ago

        Managerial change would be a good start for leadership in the clubhouse. A manager that wants his players be at the park. Grandpa could fill that roll nicely.

        Reply
        • thebare54

          6 years ago

          Why not Ryne Sandberg as bench coach

          Reply
    • ThatBallwasBryzzoed

      6 years ago

      Rajai Davis’ 8th inning home run became irrelevant after the Cubs got the 60th out of the game. It was a joke that they made that play the #1 of that year. When the 5-3 weak grounder Bryant to Rizzo was much bigger. And better.

      Reply
    • ncaachampillini

      6 years ago

      We’re you born in 2017? I’d do then yes the Cubs have gotten close and choked so yes in your lifetime I’m sure you might have enjoyed watching them get their hearts crushed.

      If however you are 3 years old or older then you are a ninny.

      Reply
  3. aussiegiants53

    6 years ago

    If they can clear some salary I’m sure they’d like to make a splashy addition, who’s going to put their hand up to take on Darvish, Chatwood or Heyward? I don’t think moving Schwarber helps anything unless he’s attached to one of the above names

    3
    Reply
    • twentyforty

      6 years ago

      Don’t buy the clear salary rhetoric. That’s entirely media driven who gave a difficult enough time understanding the real workings of a single team let alone all of a sudden all 30 teams come the winter meetings.

      2
      Reply
      • Anthony Princeton

        6 years ago

        I don’t think so. When the Ricketts purchased the Cubs and Trib it was heavily leveraged. As of 2014 it was estimated their yearly debt payments were between $30m and $35m a year. They have also invested heavily into Wrigley and the surrounding neighborhood. Factor in the Smyky trade to free up a few million when they picked up Hamels and the fact that Chatwood is still on the roster points to financial constraints. Unless salary is moved I would not expect any big financial commitments.

        3
        Reply
        • Ry.the.Stunner

          6 years ago

          And they have their own TV network coming next year. They are not financially constrained in any way.

          1
          Reply
        • kenly0

          6 years ago

          I don’t buy that. If they were that hard up for money. They would’ve just kept Smyley and declined Hamels option.

          Reply
  4. sox34

    6 years ago

    Cubs should sign Jonathan paplebon

    Reply
    • frankf

      6 years ago

      Whatever happened to him? After he was dumped by the Nats, there were immediate rumors that he was close to signing elsewhere, then he completely disappeared.

      Reply
      • sox34

        6 years ago

        Got released and then filed a grievance against the nats

        Reply
        • bobtillman

          6 years ago

          It’s rumored he’s the next White House Chief of Staff…..

          Reply
        • ABCD

          6 years ago

          That would be fun!

          Reply
      • Polish Hammer

        6 years ago

        He’s waiting to see where Harper signs before he signs…

        Reply
  5. NotaGM

    6 years ago

    I’m full on when a team needs to do a full rebuild however its like a team in win now mode..eventually they loose all.
    so I’m hindsight why is it worth to do a rebuild when you face aging players seekin g last year about.?
    most of not all teams cant sign what they traded 4 fives years so what’s the sense of a rebuild

    Reply
    • Slevin

      6 years ago

      Please repost in English.

      13
      Reply
      • 3rdStrikeLooking

        6 years ago

        Quality dig. Upvoted. Tired of these morons.

        5
        Reply
      • He was traded thata way.

        6 years ago

        Theyre all on board for a rebuild but making a last ditched effort to contend only makes a rebuild harder.

        The team cant sign similar (young) pieces they traded away to contend so why try to rebuild- trade and gut (old aging players) that failed the final attempt to contend and have no value.

        If I had to guess- theyre probably talking about something like the giants who took on longoria and now may be looking to potentially move him and other overpriced veterans.

        Reply
  6. Z-A 2

    6 years ago

    Phillies still make sense for Kluber. I think you give a decent package AND take Kipnis, and you’ve already out bid everyone else. The article says teams are most likely going to give a junk return if they take Kipnis, but the Phillies can give them controllable assets at or near the MLB level and take on the salary.

    2
    Reply
    • Slevin

      6 years ago

      Didn’t they just exhaust those assets?

      3
      Reply
    • Vedder80

      6 years ago

      Controllable assets only carry value if they can also contribute at the MLB level. Kluber is not going to be traded so that Cleveland can dominate at double a with 27 year old controllable assets.

      2
      Reply
  7. Cards21

    6 years ago

    Dolan’s should sell the Indians

    If they wait one year Encarnacion and Kipnis come off the payroll and are automatic $26mm off next year’s payroll.

    The marketing BS of getting younger is rhetoric.

    Sell the team if they cannot afford a middle of the pack team payroll for a perennial playoff team.

    1
    Reply
    • 3rdStrikeLooking

      6 years ago

      If you are a Cards fan speaking to the Indians situation you really should just STFU.

      If you are an Indians fan, you might be a bit clueless, and certainly, very short sighted. Cleveland has had a competitive team on a budget for several years, 1 inning from a WS win, and yet, they need new ownership?? Wow. What have you done for me today???

      2
      Reply
  8. Cards21

    6 years ago

    Wait, why don’t the Dolan’s trade Cliff Lee and CC Sabathia then one year later say they lack the ace pitcher to be competitive.

    Reply
    • norcalguardiansfan

      6 years ago

      Wait, why don’t they build on those trades to make a team that wins 90 games for several successive years and gets within one out of winning the World Series.

      3
      Reply
      • 3rdStrikeLooking

        6 years ago

        You cant argue with stupid, NorCal.

        2
        Reply
        • norcalguardiansfan

          6 years ago

          Well, I guess you CAN argue, but it’s not very productive, is it? It is just that Cleveland is full of people who believe this stuff, lead by some particularly moronic talk show hosts. It is one reason why the attendance is not what it could be. Very frustarating.

          1
          Reply
  9. madmanTX

    6 years ago

    Astros should check with the Angels on a Pujols trade. He used to be good, you know?

    Reply
  10. coldgoldenfalstaff

    6 years ago

    The Astros shed $52M for outgoing free agents., there’s no reason for them to go cheap.

    The title window is open now, and nobody can predict if/how prospects develop, even if you have a lot of them.

    Reply
  11. Cards21

    6 years ago

    Ignoring the insults…my point is they develop and acquire talent to be perennial contenders but the cycle always returns to a pint when payroll becomes the issue of needing to move Lee, Sabathia, Victor Martinez etc. After this round it will be Lindor in two years. Do you think Bauer and Kluber are top performers ? Would Dodgers trade Kershaw for Minor Leaguers to win World Series or would they have one of the highest payrolls, play in World Series every year and try to add a Kershaw type …Kluber?

    Reply
    • 3rdStrikeLooking

      6 years ago

      Please do not post again til you understand fully the economics of baseball, particularly small market teams. Until then, zip it.

      1
      Reply
    • norcalguardiansfan

      6 years ago

      Well, yes. The window of opportunity by definition closes. What is the alternative? If we had singed Lee, Martinez and Sabathia we would have been bad for years to come because they would have sopped up half or more of the payroll, and we wouldn’t have had Brantley or Carrasco. Remember that the Indians were a .500 team the year we traded CC and below .500 when we traded Lee.

      The fact remains that we have been over .500 for six years in a row and gone to the playoffs in four of those years, including one trip to the World Series, which we almost won. It has been a great ride and this year we are likely to go back to the playoffs.

      This success could not have happened if the Indians did what you suggest…..

      ….and people in Cleveland who suggest otherwise are just being foolish.

      1
      Reply
      • 3rdStrikeLooking

        6 years ago

        Public Service Announcement for NorCal: you cant argue with clueless people.

        2
        Reply
    • sufferforsnakes

      6 years ago

      The Indians are not the only team that deals with this issue.

      1
      Reply
    • petrie000

      6 years ago

      Unless you know some way to double the effective population of Cleveland, then this is the way the Indians, and other small markets, have operate.

      Swap out the owners and the reality of the situation remains the same,so arguing it’s Dolan’s fault just betrays an extremely shallow understanding of the situation

      Reply
  12. Priggs89

    6 years ago

    I thought Jason Heyward was getting paid ~$200M to be the clubhouse cheerleader? Or was that just a one time thing?

    Reply
    • Vedder80

      6 years ago

      Almost as funny as all of the references to Lester as a leader simply because he has been in the league for a long time. Has everyone forgotten his affinity for fried chicken, beer and video games four out of every five games?

      Reply
    • ABCD

      6 years ago

      That was a one-time thing. Not too worried about it for a couple of years. Also, by then, we’ll see if Hahn’s rebuild has panned out.

      Reply
  13. oz10

    6 years ago

    I think the Astros and the Cubs will be the poster children of the bad part of the complete tear down and rebuild but at least they got a title so it is all worth it. You get so many really good players needing to get paid at the same time that you get a crack at a title for several years, assuming it all comes together as planned, and then have to rebuild again. Rangers did this but tried to hold on for too long so hopefully these teams take stock in that and don’t hold on for too long. Or learn that you will need a couple of down years but not horrible to have some of the young studs in the minors come and replace a few of the MLB stars. Sounds like the Astros are doing this by not trading their top prospects like the Rangers did by trying to go for it a couple years longer than they should have.

    1
    Reply
    • mistry gm

      6 years ago

      The Astros and the Cubs, rebuilding? lol, lol, lol.

      Reply
      • oz10

        6 years ago

        I didn’t say that they were rebuilding or even close yet but there will come a point where they can’t afford the roster they currently have. This is already happening to the Cubs and if you read the article it will happen to the Astros before too long. it is finding and striking the right balance now of who to keep and who not to trade for immediate help.

        2
        Reply
        • astros_fan_84

          6 years ago

          Your point is taken, but the Astros have won 100+ games two years in a row. The Cubs have had a nice run.

          Windows eventually close. If you look at what ends most windows, they close GMs sign bad free agent contracts and trade all prospects.

          The Cubs have a barren farm and have made some bad signings. The Astros however, are in a good long term position.

          2
          Reply
        • oz10

          6 years ago

          Which if you read what I first wrote it says exactly that. Go read the last sentence again.

          Reply
    • bush1

      6 years ago

      I actually agree with your comments. The Cubs farm system being bad the last few years has forced them to spend money in dumb ways because they don’t have more young talent coming. There’s going to be a breaking point in the coming years. The Astros at least have good players close to the majors too.

      Reply
  14. Cards21

    6 years ago

    It seems to those posting winning is important. But the common issue is payroll.
    If Dolan’s are unwilling to be top ten in payroll then yes the cycle or window of opportunity is omnipresent. I am not accepting of this from ownership. Dan Gilbert appoved a trade that cost him $18mm for a future protected first round pick
    Dolan’s approved salary dumping their $7mm starting catcher and are in discussions to do the same with prime starting pitching being paid below market salaries.

    Reply
    • norcalguardiansfan

      6 years ago

      So, by that logic, all owners should spend until they lose $50 m or more per year so that they all have top ten payrolls?

      Why do you begrudge an owner for wanting to make a prophet? Why do you have such a hard time accepting that Cleveland is a much smaller place than New York and trying to compete one on one will result in Cleveland losing its franchise?

      And….why is it so hard to understand that MLB rules and NBA rules are different? NBA rules limit spending to prevent the spending race I described. Not a fair comparison.

      You aren’t being reasonable.

      1
      Reply
      • norcalguardiansfan

        6 years ago

        By the way, your insistence that Indians’ owners lose tons of money wasn’t applied to the “vaunted” Jacobs ownership. They made money every year – and sold the team when they realized that they would have to cut payroll.

        Dolan has brought four playoff teams in the past six years – all competitive clubs. He brought us a World Series. Look, if he messes up, Ill be the first to criticize him, but your’s is not a fair critique.

        1
        Reply
      • Aaron Sapoznik

        6 years ago

        A most valuable commodity in the MLB universe would be for owners to acquire or “make a prophet”, especially one with an uncanny ability for prescience that would show them future production assigned to long term contracts, World Series titles and most importantly…profits!

        Reply
        • norcalguardiansfan

          6 years ago

          A new front office position: Diviner of future WAR. Actually, I think they already have that position.

          Reply
    • petrie000

      6 years ago

      There’s a big difference between spending money and spending money wisely

      Spending it wisely is what the Dolan’s are doing, spending it for the sake of spending and setting yourself up for an unsustainable cycle of debt until the organization just collapses is what you’re advocating

      Because the Cleveland market can’t sustain a top 10 payroll for long. it’s bottom 5 in the league in size.

      Reply
  15. Aaron Sapoznik

    6 years ago

    It’s too bad Miguel Montero just announced his retirement. The Cubs are said to be looking for a backup catcher for Willson Contreras and Montero left-handed power bat would be a nice complement. But Montero’s best attribute was “to call out teammates” even if it meant throwing them under the bus. lol

    Montero’s also wasn’t shy about calling out his former “genius” manager either, the one with all the purported communication and leadership skills. If Theo & Co. really wanted to keep David Ross on board they should have at least offered him a prominent role on the coaching staff, perhaps as their bench coach. They could have also just rid themselves of their lame duck manager after the 2018 season and replaced him with Ross or another former Cub catcher with 4 World Series titles on his resume as a player and manager…Joe Girardi.

    Reply
    • ABCD

      6 years ago

      I think the Hottovy promotion to pitching coach is a sign of the type of person the Cubs will have as manager in 2020. I don’t think it will be Ross and it most likely won’t be Girardi.

      Joe’s done a great job as manager, but I think he’s been around long enough to butt heads and wear out his welcome, too.

      1
      Reply
      • Aaron Sapoznik

        6 years ago

        Just what the Cubs need, another analytical number crunching genius to replace the one they already have. No thanks, give me a real manager with all the traditional values of the historically great ones even if that means making a gut call from time to time.

        Reply
        • petrie000

          6 years ago

          The world series was just contested by 2 ‘number crunchers’, so the Cubs fan is just fine not digging up some dinosaur

          Reply
    • Polish Hammer

      6 years ago

      Don’t the Cubs have Caratini to fill that role?

      Reply
  16. Polish Hammer

    6 years ago

    Wait, the Indians may be trading a starting pitcher to free up some salary????

    Reply
  17. Honestabe

    6 years ago

    I heard someone talking conspiracy how Javy was pumped all season and putting up those monster numbers to dangle as bait to restock the farm. All Star, MVP & GG runner up not to mention leads team in everything. How is every team in league not jumping on this. I did hear some call him “Greatest ever” and sure bet HOF. Theo has not stated Javy is not for sale and is under team control. I don’t believe it, but makes for great return. Sell high and restock.

    Reply
    • bush1

      6 years ago

      Because obviously the Cubs would need a historically great return and no one would pay that. I love Javy but I could easily envision regression considering his patience at the plate. It’s hard to produce like that and be such a free swinger. Not impossible but hard to do year after year.

      Reply
  18. shamus

    6 years ago

    McCuller’s has another year of arbitration than you stated. Can edit that if you want.

    Reply
  19. bush1

    6 years ago

    As a Cub fan I’m sick of them valuing their own players more than the rest of baseball. There’s absolutely no way someone takes on a 37 yr old 12.5 million Zobrist and gives talent back. That’s silly. And clearly no one in baseball values Schwarber like they do. I’m not saying get ripped off but be realistic at least.

    Reply
    • mga2q7

      6 years ago

      I think you are misunderstanding. They dont over value Zo, there’s just no reason to dump a salary if you arent getting someone who can make an impact. Zo has been great in the role he plays, so what is the advantage to offing him unless it improves the team on a daily basis. The Cubs already know no one will pony up. And why the hell would you sell low on someone like schwarber who still has a lot of potential? You dont sell low on players unless you have to, or you think they dont actually have potential.

      Reply

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