The Giants are discussing trade scenarios involving Joe Panik with multiple clubs, tweets ESPN’s Jeff Passan, who notes that the infield market is beginning to pick up some steam (as evidenced by this morning’s agreement between Brian Dozier and the Nationals). In a related report, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets that the Giants are among the teams showing interest in free-agent second baseman DJ LeMahieu.
It stands to reason that if the Giants have serious interest in bringing LeMahieu on board, they’d first need to move Panik. Both are pure second basemen at this juncture of their respective careers, and even if the Giants had interest in slotting LeMahieu or Panik in at a different position on the infield, third base and shortstop are locked up by Evan Longoria and Brandon Crawford — neither of whom is particularly movable on the trade market (Longoria primarily for financial reasons and Crawford due largely to a full no-trade clause).
Panik, 28, already avoided arbitration earlier this offseason by agreeing to a one-year, $3.8MM contract. He’s coming off the worst offensive season of his career, having batted .254/.307/.332 with just four home runs in 392 plate appearances — production that rated 23 to 25 percent worse than that of a league-average hitter, based on park-neutral metrics (77 OPS+, 75 wRC+). Panik was a Gold Glover in 2016 and was generally regarded as a plus defender at second base, but his defensive ratings have also slipped in recent seasons. He’s only a year removed from a productive season at the plate, however, as he hit .288/.347/.421 with 10 long balls in 2017 before thumb and groin injuries hindered his playing time last season.
As for LeMahieu, he’s perennially among the game’s premier defensive second baseman and has consistently hit for average, though his overall production has wavered somewhat on a year-over-year basis. LeMahieu won a surprise National League batting title when he hit .348/.416/.495 in a career year back in 2016, but while he followed that up with a high-quality .310 average in 2017, his power fell off, as he slugged just .409 that season and posted a .099 ISO (slugging minus batting average). This past season, most of his pop returned, but his overall output checked in at .276/.321/.428 — rather pedestrian production when considering his hitter-friendly home setting (86 wRC+).
All in all, LeMahieu generally rates as an average or better overall hitter with premium defensive skills. He’s batted a combined .309/.369/.429 across the past four seasons and been one of the toughest strikeouts in the league over that span, punching out in just 14.2 percent of his plate appearances. LeMahieu would provide the Giants with better defense than they expected from Panik even at his peak, and he’d bring a more reliable bat to the table as well — albeit at a considerably higher price point. His past production makes LeMahieu an easy candidate for a solid multi-year deal in free agency, though he won’t cost the Giants anything in terms of draft-pick compensation, as the Rockies did not issue him a qualifying offer at season’s end.
Faidi is not making many friends in S.F. So many other holes in the lineup, this shouldn’t be a priority.
Sounds like he is trying to sign a 2B and use Panik to trade to fill holes. Giants are a long way from contending with so many holes. They have to many bad contracts on their payroll for the next few years. Nothing wrong with taking a couple years off and rebuild.
Agree, but signing and tying up payroll on a 2b doesn’t make sense when you’re rebuilding. This of course only makes sense if you know the window is four years away and you sign him to a three year deal.
Unless he has a trade already in the works for Panik. Beane does that in many of his trades. If he doesn’t have a trade offer in the works for Panik it doesn’t make sense. Giants have very few prospects to offer up in trade so sign free agent and trade vet might be the option he is looking at.
the giants don’t really care about tying payroll’s hands. Zaidi is doing what they did on the dodgers- leveraging $ in order to get the club on the right track because that in essence is the 1 strength the club has right now – the farm is depleted and the roster is clogged with age so if you can leverage money in order to repair those things you do it.
Why would they go for JD when Lowrie and Gonzalez are out there? I thought FZ valued versatility? Sure Lowrie and Gonzalez will be more expensive, but if you already are shelling out serious $ to JD for a marginal upgrade over Panik……
If they could sign Lowrie or Gonzalez, I would pull the trigger on a Panik-Gray deal in a heart beat, though I don’t know why the Yanks would want Panik since Tulo will back up at 2B once DiDi is back. Sonny was a head case in NYC, but not on the road. The Gs need SP depth.
DJ!***
All please comment only if know the game and watch the whole League,instead of your own frustration and most Sports Talk Guys are just out for ratings,please do your own research
So people are only allowed to voice their OPINIONS if you deem them to be of appropriate knowledge levels?
Go away
lol good call Judge.
Talk about a major upgrade for the giants. Not that great for DJ. going from a wild card team to a last place team. I cant see the interest being mutual. Unless it’s a short term deal. 1 year 15mil. With an option for a 2nd year. They can flip him in July.
I don’t see him as a flip unless he is having a monster year.
Any team could have made a run at him.
There are always injuries and pro rated salary, but no one seemed that thrilled with him and they’d still be paying their other 2b.
Players want the most money. Particularly with their first big contract. We see it all the time, yet we as fans continue to think they heavily factor in which team they would prefer to be on. (I’ve almost posted this exact comment in two other threads today).
If Machado signs a ten year deal with the Yankees, he can reasonably expect to be in the playoffs 8 of those years. If he signs with the White Sox, he knows he is at least a couple of years away from any kind of contention, and even then only if young players develop and the front office makes good moves. Rationally, you’d think that if he was choosing between a ten year, $250 million offer from Yanks and a 10 year $300 million offer from White Sox he’d go to the team where he would be happiest, since either way he will never have to worry about money again, but I guarantee he’d take the bigger offer.
What is the Yankees offer to Machado?
No idea that they have, I’m just throwing it out there as a hypothetical. (And I’m very much NOT a Yankee fan)
My point is frequently commenters speculate about whether a player would want to play for this or that franchise, when the reality boils down to that the majority are going to whomever offers them the most. Not a bad thing in some ways- otherwise, a team like the Yankees that is pretty much always a contender already would have another advantage as players lined up to take less from them in order to win (we’ve seen this a little bit in the NBA).
Throw Panik in on a Bumgarner deal and maybe Milwaukee would be more willing to meet the price. Never really seemed to be fully healthy last season and would seem like a better option at 2B and more likely for a turn around than Spangenberg.
The brewers got their 2B with corey spangenberg. Its gonna have to be corey ray and Burnes plus or nothing. Can’t see either team taking the bullet. Ray is only a prospect and nothing is guaranteed .. I guess Milwaukee cant take the bait and flip madbum for more prospects in July.
And youre telling us that a contender would want Spangenberg as their starter at 2B?
That’s why Milwaukee signed him. Isnt it. Milwaukee is not a contender. They got lucky while the Cubs just couldn’t hit and ju sd t fell flat. It doesnt help to play 30 games in 31 days either. No team should play that much.
No that’s not why they signed him. They brought him in to have another lefty option with some versatility, not to be their every day 2B unless he overly impresses in spring.
That was one of the dumbest comments ive ever seen. “Brewers are not contenders” yeah because non contenders go to the NLCS and get one game from the WS? You should delete your account and not comment and save us all some keystrokes
The NL team with the best record in 2018 is not a contender in 2019? We get it, you’re a Cubs fan. Stop being delusional.
Dudes got one hand on the keyboard and one down his pants reading Cubs articles.
As opposed to Panik?
Thank you BrewCrew Truly dumb statements should be noted and called out
As a Cubs fan, I would like to say that your comment of Milwaukee not being a contender is just ridiculous. Watch some baseball, you’re making us all look bad.
BrewCrew1302
You just perfectly, and vividly, described 90% of Cub fans.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Are you sure the Cubs didn’t play like 80 games in 40 days? At least that’s what the Chicago media kept whining about after they crashed and burned in the final month.
I see that you also bought that garbage.
Shut up troll. Brewers are gonna finish 3rd. It will always be the Cubs and cards division.
They don’t even have their ace wade miley back.
Spangberg is going to be like the 3rd option. He might not even see the bigs this year.
Arcia is at short .. schoop went to the twins. Who are they gonna play there ? Eric Thames? Spangenberg is the starter most likely
Hernan Perez and Tyler Saladino are both slated above him by most projected depth charts and there are still plenty of other options available.
Including, Lowrie a +defender veteran switch hitter…
Look at the depth chart. Spangenberg is #1 herman Perez and saladino are 2 and 3.
Panik has virtually no value
A team is taking a chance on Panik staying healthy.
I look at the Brewers as much more of a threat than the Cubs. Cubs defeated teams decimated by injury to win a WS. They took advantage the way good teams do. They are still a solid team that will fight for a spot in Central & WC. But I dont think anyone other than Cubs fans look at them as a real threat at this point.
Yeah, it doesn’t feel like much of an upgrade. I know Panik was bad in 2018, but he was hurt a bit, and LeMahieu, while a good defender, has unbelievably bad home/road splits, even for a Rockie: he hit 229/277/422 on the road last year, and the Giants play in a park that slightly favors pitching. It seems like a lateral move, and I doubt there’s a ton of interest among other teams for Panik. Plus, I don’t imagine the Giants got under the luxury tax just to sign an expensive second baseman who probably doesn’t move the needle anyway for what is probably going to be a bad team.
Not much of an upgrade ? Are you kidding me? It’s like replacing ceasar izturis with Jose Altuve..
I mean, LeMahieu is slightly better, but so much of his offensive value comes from playing in Colorado. Some Rockies hitters adjust after going elsewhere, of course, but some of them are Vinny Castilla or Dante Bichette or whoever. Lemahieu isn’t a bad player, but he’s not JOse Altuve. He wasn’t even offered a QO by the Rockies for a reason.
He would’ve rejected the QO anyway. You clearly didn’t get my point ..Panik isnt even on starin castro level. Hes barely on Bobby hills level(the player not the scrawny fat kid from the show)
Panik was above-average in 2017. He was hurt in 2018. He’s a singles hitting second baseman with a little on-base skill and plays above-average defense at second. That’s nothing special but the reason the Giants were bad last year isn’t because of Joe Panik. They could still use an outfield and a pitching staff.
Well, if he “would have rejected the QO anyway,” then it would have been ideal for the Rockies to offer it, because then they’d get a draft pick. They didn’t offer the QO because they were afraid he’d take it and they wanted to move in a different direction.
Ops+ which is park adjusted
Player A
2017- 93
2018- 88
Career- 92
Player B
2017- 102
2018- 77
Career 100
DJ is player A. Panik is player B
DJ is a plus defender and panik is average. DJ is also 2 years older and probably cost 2 or 3 times more. Sounds like a small upgrade for a older player and the Giants wouldn’t get anything of value with Panik coming off a down year.
I hate it when people mention Dante Bichette being bad after leaving Colorado. Failing to remember that he after he left he was 36 years old.and STILL had a very similar OPS+ his final two seasons in Boston and Cincinnati that he had in his last 3 years in Colorado.
The reason DJ wasn’t offered a QO was because the Rockies have too many replacement possibilities and not enough payroll flexibility to risk him accepting it. And there is almost no doubt that he would have accepted it. He might not be Jose Altuve, but he is still a top 10, probably top 5, second baseman in the league.
The Rockies would have benefited from his doing so.
They didn’t want to risk it
Panik is a gold Glover
Yes he won a gold glove but, his defense has slipped by the eye test and by defensive metrics.
And the real issue is that this Giants team isn’t going to be good anyway; why tie up money on a small upgrade with so many other holes to fill?
me thinks you over estimate how much DJ is going to be paid. too many similar options (many of them SS) to pay him good money.
LeMahieu is a big upgrade over Panik
having Panik on your team is a commitment to mediocrity…
Don’t Panik!
Panik has yet to be healthy for a full season, and when he comes back from the DL, he looks absolutely lost at the plate and on the field for weeks…dude’s made out of paper mache.
In 49 games at AT&T LeMahieu hit .322/.389/.414, .803 OPS.
Probably, Panik could be traded to Rockies or the Pirates.
Seems like a Pirates-type move but I think they are set with Frazier. Still need a as though.
Carter Stewart lost his grievance against the Braves. Braves keep their #9 pick in the 2019 draft.
What are you talking about? Us real fans know we arent in a quick fix faze. We realize we have to be patient. And with all the winning since 2010, that is okay with us. Also, real Giants fans know how to pronounce and spell Zaidi’s name.
patience my a**… enjoy last place again in 2019
The trade market maybe heating up for second basemen, but DJ and Panik swap at 2nd is flat out stupid. Paniks 3 million, to who knows what for DJ? No way.
They could just release panik hes a one and done player anyway. He had a good rookie year. Was never that great. When you have Crawford and belt next to you they can make any average player look amazing.
Sign DJ trade for Edwin push Panik to a utility roll sign Dallas and AJ and the Giants are competing for the west title
Edwin who? Lol
EE?
Edwin is not going to the National League.
Trade Panik, Samardzija and 75% his his salary for starlin castro and a ptbnl. Samardzija would probably excel in Miami. It’s where players go to see their careers die a slow painful death.
why would samardzija want to go to miami? he has a full no trade clause which is why he didn’t move when houston wanted him.
Because he’s garbage. I didnt know he had a full no trade. That makes the giants even dumber. Houston never tried to get him. That’s like starting a fire sale.
The Marlins don’t want Samardzija
Good grief, I have never seen a fanbase in such denial. That team is dreadful and going nowhere. Time to begin the rebuild was last year.
How is it the fan base?
The front office is the one making the decisions.
Haven’t seen any giants fans saying they’ll actually be good next year(unless proposing some ridiculous multiple trade scenarios)
What are you talking about?
FIRST!!! I see Panik going to the Yankees, they’re gonna get everyone
Panik would be ok with that, since that’s where he is from.
The “first” thing needs to stop, first of all. Second of all, when I saw this thread pop up I immediately thought he’d be a good fit for the Yankees to negate the “need” for Machado (which doesn’t exist and is reactionary to getting spanked by Boston last year)
Panik wouldn’t cost much at all and would address two things: 1) the need for a lefty bat and 2) the SS issue. Torres would slide over to short, which is his natural position anyway while Tulo acts as the backup. Panik starts at 2b. Go after Harper, trade Gardner, Gray and a mid-level prospect for a starter.
Why would the Giants want to give Panik away. They could of non tendered him.
I’d rather sign LeMahieu than trade for Panik
Much higher floor with DJ but Panik has more upside. He won a gold glove and hit .300 in 2016. People tend to forget that.
DJ hit nearly .350 in 2016 and has 3 Gold Gloves. How does Panik have more upside?
Maybe because Panik is younger and has played less innings. Just a thought.
If you’re team on a tight budget where a LeMahieu-type contract would not work, acquiring Panik would be a good option. He’s a reasonable bounce back candidate. The projections on Fangraphs see him next season at 104 wRC+.
Not sure the Giants need to do this… seems like a Panik move.
Wow. Interesting….
Here come all of the, “I know everything about everything…” comments… FYI, no one cares. :)
Nooooo pleeeaase nooo!!
If all it takes for the IF market to “heat up” is for Dozier to sign with Nats., why didn’t it “heat up” when Kinsler signed? He had a better season.
Maybe because Kinsler did not have a better season. It’s close. Dozier had an 88 OPS+ last season, and Kinsler had an 87. For their careers, both have a 108 OPS+. What makes Dozier more valuable is he’s 5 years younger.
I remember a few years ago the Indians kept trying to get Panik, and the Giants wouldn’t move him. Maybe now they could get him for peanuts and move Kipnis to left field.
just what the Indians need, Kipnis in LF.
girls can play baseball too
Buyer beware! Overall averages skewed by playing half his games at Coors. Very ordinary road splits.
I’m seeing a pattern with the moves Zaidi is making so far and I like them. On base percentage (OBP) seems to be important to his consideration for signing a player. I’ve always been a fan of OBP and believe it means more meaningful at bats. LeMahieu fits that type of player and would be a nice upgrade over Panik.
I agree although I like Panik as a bit of a bounce back (LeMahieu is still an upgrade). OBP is something that has slowly been dropping the past couple years in SF. Need gap hitters not power people trying to power over the wall at ” Oracle Park”
Why is this even an option for Farhan?? I mean when healthy, Panik is pretty much the same player as LeMahieu, right? So why trade him for basically nothing and then make a larger commitment to LeMahieu?
I’m sorry San Francisco, but it’s time to rip off the band-aid, because you’re not winning the division or the wild card anytime soon.
I’d like to see them make a trade with the Yankees. They should trade for Sonny Gray And Clint Frazier. Giants should trade Madison Bumgarner And Joe Panik with maybe a top 15 prospect for them
LOL are you a Yankees fan or a Giants fan? There is absolutely NO WAY Cashman sends Sonny Gray AND Clint Frazier to SF for Joe Panik. Panik is barely worth Sonny Gray after his disaster of a season last year.
Further, the Giants aren’t giving Madison Bumgarner away for the price of a pitcher who couldn’t cut in The Bronx and a former prospect who has no position on his current team, PLUS throwing in Joe Panik and a “top 15 prospect”….
But, yes, I was just about to comment that this seems like a move the Yankees should make because I think his bat would play up in Yankee Stadium.
Lol I’m a Giants fan but I’m also not in denial about our teams situation. We need OF depth bad. we have 3 Avg Triple A players in line to start next season. I also say “Top 15 Prospect” because the giants farm system is garbage and they have about 5 players that have MLB potential that’s it.
Bumgarner And Panik have low cost salaries (12 Mil And 3.8 Mil) and therefore are easily moveable and In demand at their positions. I know the giants have a high asking price for MadBum but man if they’re gonna commit to retooling Clint Frazier and maybe another decent player would be a good start
Joe Panik is close to having negative value. The Giants would have to take Sonny Gray’s contract to get Clint Frazier, and Bumgarner is coming off two down years that, granted, were the result of two freak injuries that will likely have zero impact on his future performance.
Sonny Gray straight up for Joe Panik is probably the best you can hope for, and even then I expect SF would have to throw something in to offset value because Gray is still a solid pitcher, he just isn’t cut out for New York and we’ve all seen that before.
It’s probably not as bad a trade as I made it sound, but Joe Panik would be a throw-in to a Bumgarner trade and the only way moving Frazier makes sense is if the Yankees are getting Harper, then you’d be taking Gardner, Gray and Frazier + another prospect for Panik and Bumgarner. That’s the only way moving our backup OF who still has a ton of potential makes any kind of sense.
Ignoring josebm95’s comment about how the Giants should give Panik and Bumgarner away to the Yankees for a headcase of a pitcher and a former prospect who is blocked in all three OF positions (Sonny Gray and Clint Frazier), I was thinking this sounds like a move Cashman should make.
I feel like a healthy Joe Panik would see his bat play up in Yankee Stadium and he would definitely benefit from the short porch down the RF line, while acquiring Panik would also address the Yanks’ need for another lefty bat AND negate the “need” for Machado (who I don’t want, as a Yankees fan).
Panik at 2b allows Torres to slide over to his natural position (SS) while Didi is out, with Tulo as his backup. Once Didi is healthy and if Panik is hitting, Boone can move Torres back to 2b and have a 3-way platoon of sorts with Panik/Didi/Torres to play the matchup game while also easing Didi back into the lineup and giving guys extra days off down the stretch. Or Panik can be moved at the deadline if he performs like he’s capable of.
Panik would cost nothing in terms of prospects right now, and I’d even argue that Cashman could ask Zaidi to take Gray’s contract in a deal.
It’s definitely worth pursuing given what’s transpired with CC Sabathia’s health. I’m sure he’ll be fine when he checks in to Spring Training. Panik allows the Yanks to do everything you just said.
But then giving up Bumgarner defeats the purpose of signing Lemahieu to a long term deal, but that’s not the Yankees problem….
Career road numbers for Lemahieu should be a big concern for any team. Strong defender, little stick.
Would I take DJ over Panik? Sure, but not at the salary Lemahieu and his agent are asking for.
Many ex-Billy Beane disciples have failed as boss of other teams. Faidi should be primed to add to the growing list.
Faidi? hmmmm I think Zaidi knows what he is doing bud
Faidi is his new name.
DePodesta and Ricciardi knew what they were doing too. Rule of law: never hire out of Oakland.
Panik Watson for Almora
I Hope They Get Him. . . Just to shut up every one that says they’re not doing any thing. ! ! !
Somehow Zaidi saying that he’s going to be patient in the market turned into “They’re signing DJ and trading Panik” within a week
Zaidi may be on to something if he can pull this off. Keeping almost the exact same losing team 4 years in a row obviously wasn’t working.