Some buzz from around the National League as we approach the deadline…
- The Mets’ surprise acquisition of Marcus Stroman has sparked even more rumors about a possible Noah Syndergaard trade, with the Padres one of the teams (if pessimistically so) still in talks about Syndergaard. While the Padres have a deep farm system’s worth of prospects to offer, one name that isn’t available is top pitching prospect MacKenzie Gore, MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets. Gore has been mentioned as a possible trade chip in quite a few speculative deals since the offseason, though the Padres reportedly consider the young left-hander to be next to untouchable. Ironically, the Mets themselves may have contributed to the Padres’ stance on not including Gore in a Syndergaard trade — since the Mets didn’t have to give up even a top-100 MLB.com-ranked prospect for Stroman, San Diego can argue that a consensus top-10 arm like Gore is too much to give up for Syndergaard.
- Also from Morosi, the Nationals have interest in Rangers righty Jose Leclerc. Washington has been connected to a wide range of relievers, and Leclerc boasts a 3.99 ERA, 3.27 K/BB rate, and a huge 13.7 K/9 over 47 1/3 IP for Texas this season, not to mention a long-term contract that could keep him until team control through the 2024 campaign. Needless to say, all these attributes would require a big return to pry him loose from Texas, which could be tricky for a Nats organization that isn’t overly deep on minor league talent.
- The history between Atlanta general manager Alex Anthopoulos and the Blue Jays led to some speculation that the Jays and Braves were resistant to trading with each other. Though The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal recently noted that Toronto’s “stance has softened,” it might not have dropped altogether, as The Athletic’s David O’Brien tweeted that “the word was that Toronto would deal with him [Anthopoulos], but would ask for more from [the] Braves” in talks involving Marcus Stroman than they would from other teams. Stroman is off the table now, of course, though it would be interesting to know if this reported stance from the Jays extends to other trade chips who could be on Atlanta’s radar, like Ken Giles.
If you can make your team better, you make your team better. If personal animosity or anything of the like interferes with that, you have no business running a team.
I disagree if it’s trading to a division rival. I don’t want to go against Wheeler or Syndergaard 5 times a year.
he is referring to the jays not wanting to do business with the braves due to AA. I agree, stupid!
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Wheeler is a rental. If anyone should be hesitant about trading for him, it’s the Nats or Braves.
The Braves shouldn’t be hesitant. I’m a Mets’ fan and don’t want to see them get better, but he’s from the Atlanta area, I believe. I can’t imagine he’d be against signing an extension with them.
You’re right, he is from the Atlanta area and it’s been said that because of that they think they could extend him for at least a couple of more years until more of their prospects are ready.
He’s going to want more years than when the last wave is ready. Our low-A levels are not deep, but the AA guys should be ready in ~2-3 years max. Wheeler can get more years than that (5?).
I am tired of the Braves playing the hometown card to try and get a better deal. Great, he fell from the womb in GA red clay. Pay the man what he’s worth or move on.
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@phenomenalajs and fabulous61 you could re-frame that and say that the Braves shouldn’t trade for Wheeler because he’s from the Atlanta area and so they shouldn’t have a hard time signing him in FA. Exact same outcome, except this way you don’t have to give top prospects then face them playing for a division rival for potentially the next decade.
I agree. If Toronto took a package they deemed less valuable than one that ATL would’ve offered up that’s just stupid and immature. If you let some grudge against AA cloud your judgment in obtaining the best possible talent you deserved to get canned. And anthopoulos looks even better for leaving a situation where management would make those kinds of decisions.
You must be new to the Mets and trade season
If you’re replying to me, nothing changes. Any team who chooses not to deal w another for a petty reason is extremely stupid. The Mets and the Yankees inability to make deals is also stupid but they are at least fighting for the same market in the same city. Well, I mean the Mets aren’t really put up much of a fight but there are larger ramifications for making a deal to your crosstown rival in New York City. This isn’t Toronto and Atlanta.
I don’t disagree with you but I am curious to know (considering the Mets and Yanks don’t even compete for a playoff spot against one another): what are those ramifications? Media related or am I missing something else? I have heard of this for a long time but can’t quite put my finger on it. The only other thing I could think of is home ticket sales being taken from one team to another but I find that unlikely to occur in any serious quantity and even less likely that it would prevent both teams from bettering themselves. Let me know if you can. This topic interests me a lot and I would love some insight. Thanks if you’re able to respond.
You can bet AA made no offer at all. He is not capable of making decisions or taking risk.
That’s great to say in theory, but these are not robots, they are human beings. Human beings have feelings, especially when it comes to terminations. I was let go from a restaurant job many years ago over circumstances I did not agree with. To this day, I still have not eaten in that place again. Am I over it? Sure, it was just a teenage job at a fast food place. But there are many other restaurants that I can go to in order to enjoy a meal. Why go to one that brings up bad memories?
Would it be better to just get over it and move on? Of course, but like I said, these are human beings not robots or computer programs.
AA didn’t fire anyone. He willingly walked away after having two guys from Cleveland hired over him. Now the 2 guys from Cleveland have a problem w AA and won’t deal w him. That’s beyond immature to take less value. This isn’t some wrongful firing; it was a guy who did not want to work under you and walked away. That upset you so much that you now will harm your team by not acquiring prospects from him? Human beings can have emotions; that’s a childish one. Not apples to apples w eating a fast food burger. These guys should be way beyond that.
But you are not harming your team by not acquiring prospects from him. You are simply choosing to acquire your prospects elsewhere. In effect, you are choosing to help his competitors and not help him.
Maybe I just don’t know the whole story around why AA left Toronto, but I do know that he took the team to the post season for the first time in over 20 years and was rewarded for it by having his autonomy removed by the hiring of a new boss. I don’t think there’s a GM that would’ve wanted to stay after that.
Tell the Mets GM to pound sand, the guy is nuts
If Mets want Margot in a deal i think Margot,Morejon,Cantillo could be a solid offer for Syndergaard.
Yes Mets fan
Manuel Margot has done nothing in his big league career and heads to arbitration next year. His .281 xWOBA leaves little room for me to believe he’s
going to start hitting. His underlying batting numbers have actually been decaying the last 3 years. I would take a hard pass on him and certainly not as the 2nd piece for Thor.
Lol that’s awful. Urias would have to be involved along with either Morejon or Allen
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Lmao Marcus Stroman doesn’t even get a top 100 prospect and you think Thor is getting a top 20 and another top 100? No chance.
Thor is better and controlled longer than Stro
The guy averages 21 starts and 9 wins a year. That doesn’t warrant that type of a return. I’m in agreement with soldierofgod619 except I wouldnt give up Castillo either think there is more hype that substance sorrounding Thor.
It funny some people also think wheeler is gonna bring a good haul. As you said Stroman who is better than wheeler and has more control only got 2 prospects who ain’t even top 100. So wheeler should get very low level prospects in return
Yeah, but there is also one fewer starting pitcher on the market now. The price just went up. As weird as it is to say, the Mets may have made a brilliant move here. The Mets just acquired one of the biggest names teams would be competing for while selling another two of the biggest names on the same market.
Picture yourself selling a relatively rare product on eBay. There are maybe 5 on the entire site. You own 2 of them. 1 of your competitors is selling their product much cheaper than both you and the others. If you buy that guy’s product, the average price tag for the remaining 4 products just went up. People can claim they want the same price as the ones that have already sold, but they are no longer on the market. The choice is now to purchase at the new current market price OR do without. MLB teams that want to win, tend to not do without in the long run.
I hate the narrative that Thor is “better”
He pitches in the NL East snd Stroman pitches in the AL East
Stroman is very talented and more durable.
I love how Because Thor goes neck & neck with MadBum in 16 that he is the second coming of Jack Morris or something
The guy has lived nowhere close to his potential.
Take ’16-’18 seasons, Thor was better.
Well, in 2019 Stroman might look a bit better, but if you use the breadth of their career it’s Thor in a landslide. Also, if you use ERA+ and FIP instead of the overvalued ERA, it’ still Thor by a wide margin career wise and its very close in 2019 even.
ERA+ for career (takes into account DH and park factors) (higher is better)
– Stroman – 113
– Synd – 122
FIP career- Takes into account the horrendous defense of the Mets (lower is better)
– Stroman – 3.61
– Synd – 2.85
– Stroman – 3.52
– Synd – 3.65
The last stat is telling. Even if you think Stroman is far better this year by other numbers, when you look at how bad the Mets defense is, it really makes the two look nearly equal.
Worse yet, FIP only accounts for direct difference in fielding. It has not figured out how to incorporate the indirect impact of poor fielding. By that I mean, pitchers throwing extra pitches, typically in higher leverage situations. Also, extra looks for hitters. That sort of stuff. When you see that they are closer than reality in a bad year for Thor and Stroman’s second best year ever, then you might see why Thor is worth much more in most GM’s eyes.
All these wonderful peripherals for Syndergaard…mets fan, i just have one question for you…then why are
so ok with trading him?
Sorry…one other question mets fsns…if defense is so bad for Syndergaard…how come Degrom doesnt seem to have ssme issues with said defense?
Thor is as overrated as they come and not better than Stroman. Thor was strong as a rookie and has the nickname, that’s about it. He can’t stay healthy and is just an average pitcher, nothing special.
Guy that averages 21 starts and 9 wins a year? This is selective stat picking 101. 2019 is only 60% of the way over but let’s include that as a whole year. He also missed an entire season out of 5 which skews his start number way down. And then we’ll pick something completely arbitrary like wins to fit the narrative.
Degrom won 10 games and won the Cy Young last year. You could make some legitimate knocks on Syndergaard but somehow people actually like this crap you’re spewing out?
If Syndergaard is so great, why trade him?
If the defense is so bad, why doesn’t it effect degrom so much? Or Vargas?
Whenever anyone brings up a Yankees players offensive stats every Met fan talks about Yankees Stadium.
But at the same time they think they are getting a Kings Ransom for a guy with a 4.3 era in Citi field with no DH. Apparently pitching in the NL in a pitchers park shouldn’t be factored in when judging Nets pitchers, it only works the other way.
But “Thor” is a superstar. His numbers just stink because of the defense, even though other pitchers on the same staff pitch fine with it.
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Get that “9 wins a year” out of here boltz82! Pitcher wins and losses are IRRELEVANT!
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@SuperSinker yes, Thor is more valuable than Stroman. No, the difference is not big enough for Thor to net two top 100 prospects (one ranked #20 overall) while Stroman nets zero top 100 prospects.
Nobody knows how many SPs are on the market. Nobody.
Have you neever been surprised by a trade?
With all the analytics in play now you aren’t supposed to see any trades that are just crazy anymore that being said I think he is a good pitcher and will get a top 100 prospect but not a top 10 or anything like that. I’m a Braves fan and don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t mind Atlanta getting him but not at a crazy cost
You might not know the exact total number, but you do know that whatever the number is, it is now smaller by one.
I agree those three are good players for Syn
Call me crazy but if I’m the braves I’m going hard after both Zack Greinke and Ian Kennedy, two potential difference makers for both the rotation and bullpen who could both be had for pennies on the dollar as long as the braves assume a majority of the contract (10 mm from dbacks 3 mm from royals). If you can acquire these two without tapping into your top prospects, why the hell not?!? Greinkes got 2 more years after this season and Kennedy only one so the contracts don’t hamstring you in the long run plus you can still have all of your top prospects to hopefully make another addition or two to the bullpen. Prospects I’d like for them to hold onto are pache waters contreras Anderson and Wright. All others I feel should be open for business on the trade front
With you on Greinke but passing on Kennedy
No interest in him
With you on Kennedy and passing on Grienke. Grienke is too expensive and would cost the Braves too many prospects. Grienke is so overpaid that even if he was offered for nothing via trade, not many teams would want to take on the financial commitment he’s is still owed. Good pitcher just not worth 30mil a season. Bad contract!
Braves could work that out. Include Day in the trade to offset some of the money. Then for every prospect given, the DBacks eat more of Greinke’s salary. Shouldn’t take more than two prospects to get the Braves into the $15m a year range over the remainder I wouldn’t think.
2019 – Greinke – Day prorated (about 7 million Braves would owe)
2020 and 2021 Greinke owed $35m per year.
For 2020 and 2021, if you consider the Braves basically buying Touki Toussant for eating Bronson Arroyo’s $9.5m, then you can probably set the value of a decent prospect at $10m. So, two decent ones could get to the $15m/year for Greinke I mentioned. Maybe a little more or less, but in that ballpark.
Yes, the DBacks would have to understand that it would be some dead money, but it would also hasten their rebuild.
I believe I read somewhere else that the Royals are reluctant to send any money in whatever deals they choose to make, the article didn’t elaborate as to why except to say because they don’t feel that they have to.
You’re crazy – both are really bad deals. Greinke has stated that he wants to stay in ARZ – so let him, especially at that price, unless ARZ has buried the hatchet from the Dave Stewart trades and wants to strap $30MM to Greinke in a moving van.
Ian Kennedy is locked in a bad contract (~$20MM remaining through 2020) on a KC team that has been rumored to not want to pay down any contracts. Even if he maintains elite closer status, that’s still questionable. There’s enough cheaper/younger options out there. I have a feeling AA would rather pay in (non-elite) prospects than paying millions down in future contracts.
And who exactly are you going to get for non elite prospects? The point is you can get players who can make a difference without giving up said prospects. The braves pay roll is 130 million which means there’s more than enough room to take on those two contracts without giving up any real prospects just by taking on the money. The braves made $100 million in profits last year. I won’t feel bad if they only make 70 million this year
I like the Greinke part but if they did that then a reliever would be out/or out of the bargain bin monetarily speaking after they pick up that much payroll for 2 plus years even with Arizona pitching some in but I like greinke for 2 more years
I got a 3 way wish list
Hope AA gets it done
What are you giving up?
^^don’t answer that, it’s a trap for everyone to immediately tell you how wrong you are lol….
I like all of these..there are some other relievers I would also like as a sub for these but these would be great…also have a power or impactful OF on my list…Puig, Merrifield both would be good….
As far as what to give up, after Mets and Stroman trade, who knows anymore?
I don’t see any team giving up what it would take to get Leclerc. He won’t be cheap at all.
Iglesias is overrated, not a big help to an already bad bullpen.
never mind…they still figured out a way to tell you how wrong you are smh lol!
An autographed picture of Bobby Cox would be more than what the Mets gave the Blue Jays for Stroman.
Quite a bit more, actually.
If I were the mets, the conversation would start with Gore. “Ok Preller, who else besides Gore will you include in a trade…We await your reply.” – Mets
“Click” would be the appropriate response.
SD has a deep enough system that you’d be crazy not to know of the other guys down their prospect list you could have if you focused on them and not the obvious (Gore). Reminds me of MIA not trade Realmuto to ATL because they were focused on Acuna when the other prospects included Riley and others. (No, no one is sure Riley was ever offered, but the point is ATL would have been more willing to listen on him than if they were fixated on Acuna – the top prospect in the game at the time).
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Stroman didn’t even get ONE top 100 prospect. And you expect to get the #3 prospect + more in the game for Syndergaard!?
No way Gore in one yr will be better than Syn is today
If you are willing to trade gore for anything less than a king’s ransom, you must be fired. That dude is gonna be a star
If the Mets are adamant on wanting Gore then the Padres counter with adding Diaz, sure its going to take more then Gore but I would include him of it means Diaz is on the table. Gore, Margot, Campusano, Potts, Lawson
Syndergaard to Houston for Whitley and Alvarez
Alverez is untouchable. He won’t be traded, not a chance. He’s gonna lead the offense in the post season
Astros don’t do that at all
Even if you promised to include the rights to Marvel’s Thor series, still wouldn’t be enough for Alvarez. Dude hits everything – really far.
If memory serves, Houston isn’t considering trading Whitley right now either.
I need 10 minutes.
The Blue Jays successfully just stuck a knife in the whole SP market with this trade! In an effort to cut the Yankees throat, these two pitiful organizations stuck it to anyone with a SP to trade! You trade arguably the second best arm on the block for two no name prospects? Then you expect two or more top 50 prospects for washouts that can’t cut it on your team? Good luck with that! I think the Mets and the Jays both just cut their noses off to spite their face! The league ought to have stepped in and blocked this trade. Stupid trade from two iconically stupid franchises.
I don’t see the Rangers trading Leclerc this season. Yes, he was great last season and has been up and down this year. He is young and controllable, so unless the Rangers get a haul I don’t see him being moved even though his price is not as great as it was earlier this season.
Sorry…one other question mets fans…if defense is so bad for Syndergaard…how come Degrom doesnt seem to have ssme issues with said defense?
I think Margot, Morejon, and The Allens (Logan and Austin), is a fair trade for Thor. I would like to see that happen. I’d also like to see Ty France, Josh Naylor, Xavier Edwards, and Cal Quantrill traded to the tribe for Bauer. And finally, Kirby Yates to the Doyers for Alex Verdugo and Josiah Gray. Thank you and good night. Am I already dreaming?
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Indians aren’t trading Bauer
What about Yates and Naylor to the redsox for Benintendi, Casas, Thad Ward, and Noah Song?
What do people think– 3b Sheldon Neuse, SS Nick Allen, P Daulton Jefferies OR P Grant Holmes, and P Brian Howard for Syndergaard? Too much, too little? A’s would be holding onto their top-5 prospects, but Mets would still be getting quite a haul.