The Red Sox are making a push to land a starting pitcher on the trade market and “prefer to act sooner rather than later,” reports Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (via Twitter).
Boston is said to be casting the proverbial wide net in seeking an arm to slot into the starting five behind Chris Sale, David Price, Eduardo Rodriguez and the struggling Rick Porcello. The Red Sox re-signed Nathan Eovaldi on a four-year, $68MM contract this past offseason in hopes that he could round out the rotation behind that bunch, but Eovaldi underwent surgery to remove a loose body from his elbow in late April. He’s yet to return from that procedure, and even when he does, the organization plans to use him in the ninth inning to help fortify a beleaguered relief corps that went unaddressed in the offseason.
The market for starting pitching is thin but not barren. Madison Bumgarner is widely expected to be traded between now and July 31, although the Red Sox are known to be on his no-trade last. Division-rival Marcus Stroman is a likely candidate, too, as is Baltimore’s Andrew Cashner. Detroit’s Matthew Boyd is available for a high asking price, and it’s at least anecdotally worth pointing out that Red Sox president of baseball operations acquired Boyd for the Tigers when he previously served as their GM. Like Bumgarner, Zack Wheeler of the Mets is a free agent at season’s end and is a strong candidate to be traded this month. The Royals could potentially move southpaw Danny Duffy as well, and there will be other options beyond the group listed here.
As recently as last week, Red Sox owner John Henry publicly indicated that he didn’t anticipate adding “a lot of payroll” for the 2019 season. Boston is already the lone MLB team in the top luxury tax bracket, and any dollar that’s added to the team’s payroll will come with a 75 percent overage tax as a result. Boston can avoid paying a steep financial price by either acquiring a pre-arbitration arm or convincing a potential trade partner to pay down some of a veteran’s guaranteed salary, but either approach would require a steeper price tag in terms of prospects.
The Red Sox’ farm system isn’t considered to be particularly robust — although the oft-recited “don’t have the prospects to get something done” line is overstated. MLB.com’s most recent rankings of the Boston system credits the team with eight 50-grade prospects, while top organizational prospects Triston Casas and Futures Game participant Jarren Duran have both elevated their stock on Fangraphs’ midseason update.
Rotation help, yes please. But only after the current group of ghouls in the bullpen is addressed. We need more than Eovaldi.
Steven Wright might also provide some help. Getting a bullpen arm would be great for this team, but not having Velasquez/Johnson/Weber/whoever as the pot luck fifth starter is sort of the low hanging fruit for easy upgrades…
Good point, forgot about Wright. However, I dont feel so comfy w a knuckleballer coming out of the bullpen. Runners on 2nd and 3rd w one out…the ball fluttering all over the place. No thanks.
Wright has said he can no longer start as his knee can only take short outings.
And trading for Stroman is laughable. Have you seen the drama lately between him and the Sox?
It’s laughable because they don’t have the pieces to get him. Price had drama with the Sox too. It’s almost as if they don’t care once you start paying them.
Some of the issue with the BP is the ridiculous amount of pressure put on them by the rotation. Ignoring the #5 slot for now, how often do the other 4 SPs go even 6 innings, let alone 7 innings?
Nice enough start by Price, but only going 5.2 innings means 4 RPs. So it’s going to be some order of Workman, Barnes, & Brasier, plus help form our #4 RP du jour.
Even if it works, it isn’t sustainable. We need consistent 6-7 inning outings from our front 4.
Tampa invented the opener strategy. Tampa also uses starters for less than six. Snell in Cy Young year average less than six. This year Morton same. Pull out before trouble.
Sox need to use their fortune to cookie cutter copy the model of short starts. Not bring back Kimbrel looks dumb. Sign Eovaldi, dumb. Now maybe make right and snipe best no-names from loser teams. Flame throwing bullpen depth.
The Sox don’t have the prospects to pull off a major trade.
I would think even with his recent hot streak, Cashner is within their range, especially as other teams focus on higher end arms like Bumgarner, Wheeler and Boyd. Jason Vargas is another arm likely within their means.
not even close. they were better off signing keuchel, and dealing with the ramifications of the tax and draft picks
yeah they do. it’s just the other teams aren’t smart enough to look at the players they have in the system.
Red Sox farm system had been stripped bare and vultures have picked clean the remaining bones…
Red Sox are going to a gunfight with no ammo…
The Dombrowski way
Tigers : Red Sox
Spider-Man.gif
Lol…they just came off of one of the most dominant seasons.. from start to finish..in MLB history..
I’ll take a couple.500 seasons if you win a World Series every few years.
What’s more important, having a stacked farm system or winning a world series?
Of course they do. The question is are they willing to give up the limited supply that they do have. I really don’t think so, cuz they are not in the position to give up the little they have. Besides I don’t think a starter will solve all our problems and moving Eovaldi to the pen won’t etheir. Their problems are deeper and more widespread.
Luckily the Sox have been able to hit on their top prospects like Devers,Betts,Benny and Chavis cuz if not they would’ve been in some deep Doo Doo!Lol
Most of the people commenting don’t know the RS farm, and don’t know trade values. It doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to obtain a #5 for 2 month rental, and the RS have 4-5 guys that are in the Chavis range, like 100-150.
the problem with that philosophy is that other teams have better prospects to offer, hence why the sox system is not all that attractive.
Spot on. Also, his projection seems very one sided. I wouldn’t call Bumgarner or Wheeler the best pitchers in baseball, but they might be the best pitchers available. In a supply and demand scenario those 100-150 projections he talks about turns into 70-100. If the Sox were to get one of these limited pieces they will have to part with their top talent. As you said with other teams have much better prospects, I don’t see the 100-150 philosophy for a rental holding up..
But they have Mookie Betts who will be gone soon and won’t be resigning…
If they did, they should go after a controllable Boyd.
If the rest of this topic goes like the 1st 2? It’s going to be a doozy…
Boston has a few prospects and doesn’t need a top starter anyway since they have 4 decent ones, plus IMO don’t need to add another period, much less anything to the BP with Eovaldi being added there.
Take the WC slot if that’s what it is to be. boston has won 2 WS last 15y as a WC team. No prospects, unless dirt cheap.
Which years beyond 04? They won the division in 07, 13, and 18.
sorry have you seen any of their games? Eovaldi alone won’t fix that bullpen and relying on him to be a saviour is insane!
The Sox still have the pieces if they wanted to but their system to go after a Stroman/ Giles package as some of their mid level pitching prospects would intrigue the Jays I’m sure. though for a package, Dalbec would likely be going back the other way as a starting point.
Someone hasn’t watched many/any Portland games. Dalbec is Hack Nicholson (Dave Nicholson) clone who never saw a pitch he wouldn’t wildly flail away at.
In Red Sox prospects lingo? Will Middlebrooks jr. if he could bring back anything.. be my guest is my 2c. O-v-e-r r-a-t-e-d big time.
I never said he was a stud. The Jays likely would look for someone who can play 3b so they can move Vlad to 1B sooner rather than later. Package that with a good couple pitchers or an SP and OF and they may bite.
He walks much more than Middlebrooks ever even tried to. But he is basically Russ Branyan 2.0
Someone hasn’t watched many/any Portland games. Dalbec is Hack Nicholson (Dave Nicholson) clone who never saw a pitch he wouldn’t wildly flail away at.
———————————————-
He has a 93/56 K/W. Nothing wrong with high Ks if it comes with high walks. It shows that you are taking enough outside pitches to get that many walks.
No team is going to make a deal and give away a player unless it is a salary dump of a low performing veteran like Zimmerman with Detroit..
Addison Reed disagrees.
im sick of people saying teams don’t have the prospects to aquire an upgrade. any team had the prospects to aquire at least a rental. it doesnt take a major prospect to aquire an Alex Colome/Tanner Roark type.
Colome has more control so the White Sox do not have to trade him. Also the more teams needing starting pitching drives up the prices on Roark, Cashner, and those type of pitchers.
The Red Sox May even have the prospects to get Matt Boyd. Casas, Flores, and Groome is a pretty good package of prospects. It’ll deplete their system but if they wanted to do it. I’m not sure Detroit doesn’t seriously consider that package.
That is a hangup proposal…Boyd is one of the most wanted starters in the trade market: A young LHSP, making 2.6M with 3 1/2 years team control who is “off the analytics charts” rating close to Verlander and Scherzer in key analytic categories, good clubhouse, family guy who does lots of charitable work and is only getting better…..
Teams with much deeper farm systems like Astros, Yanks, Cardinals, Brewers, Phillies etc are already all over Boyd…..
Don’t think the Red Sox can compete with those teams top prospects capital in a trade bidding war..
If Houston wants to offer Kyle Tucker then the Red Sox aren’t going to compete. But let’s say Tucker and Whitley are off the table. The Red Sox can now compete. The Yankees don’t have gobs of blue chip prospects either. You mention the Cards and Phillies and they don’t have tons of prospects either. If those teams start laying out the big prospects (Tucker, Whitley, Ruiz, etc. ) that’s where Boston cannot compete.
I don’t know what the final haul Boyd will command but I don’t think it’s going to be a Tucker or Whitley headlining. If it stays out of that realm of prospect the RS have a chance. DD isn’t afraid to gut the farm and there’s enough guys left to completely gut it for a player.
I don’t think that’s a hang up proposal at all though. It may get topped but I don’t think Boyd is bringing back several blue chip prospects. I don’t disagree with you that they can be blown out of the water by any of those teams I just don’t know if that offer will surface.
Matt Boyd Sucks, He has a 4.24 FIP in the Last 4 years. His analytic underlying stats aren’t good.
He also has a 1.6 HR/9 this year, & that’s in the AL Central playing in Big Parks like Comerica, Kauffman, &
Target Field.
That HR/9 Spikes if he’s traded to any AL East Team.
Did I mention his Soft% Rate has decreased every year for the Past 3 Seasons, While his Hard% Rate has Increased every year for the past 3 years?
not even close man,,they asked the yanks for gleyber torres in which they promptly said hell no. you think they are taking a couple of fringe prospects? if the yanks offered frazier and some others, that would still be better than anything the sox could come up with.
After all, all that terrible Sox farm system has produced lately are Rafael Devers, Mike Chavez, and Chris Velasquez……it’s not like they have enough prospects to get a Chris Sale or Nate Eovoldi……
Michael Chavis and Christian Vasquez? Was that what you were going for?
Probably an autocorrect issue
To be fair, Vazquez was drafted way back in ’08. Chavis is newer . 14
Drafting and signing is only part of the equation….it’s all about development. And they’ve done a more than decent job in that area, with no evidence that it won’t continue.
Realistically, it’s not a strong system. But, like the Giants and Orioles, it’s always been under-rated by BA and the pundits. And those are three of the most successful franchises this decade.
The Orioles are one of the most successful franchises in the last decade?
It’s too bad this site took away the down vote. I guess you can argue the Giants have had a good decade(3 WS winds) but they haven’t been good for 3 years and wont’ be for at least another with them having a bottom 3 system. The Orioles have been good? The Red Sox obviously fit,. It’s teams like the Astros & Dodgers people need to watch. In it to win every year, while maintaining a top 10 farm system.
Wasn’t hammering kids the Sox have developed Bob, at least positional players that is the past 20y. Fault has been at the type of pitchers the organization drafted IMO up until 3-4y ago and too few of us were pointing this out well after the rest of the league had gone to power pitching.. The junk ball type the Sox continually wasted 1-2nd round picks on for years, where none, other than the journeyman brian Johnson did any good and little really there, rest of the junk ballers were total flame outs.
The ones where a tad of velocity was involved the got something, whether it be Bucholz, Kopech, even Jamie callahan as a trade chip once converted to relief,
Difficult converting a guy to relief who tops out at 90, much less make a starter out of them.
“I guess you can argue the Giants have a good decade (3 World Series wins)”……wow…….proof positive that mom and dad left me on the wrong planet……
Ya, they’ve had their issues developing pitchers, and ya, the system looks pretty empty right now. But they’re inventive and (let’s be frank), they have a LOT of money and a willingness to spend it. Fans of many teams would not be upset if their teams were like that.
And I’m not sure how much the poor system is more a function of late drafting positions, where your success rate is geometrically lower, than of anything else.
DD might not be the best GM in the world, but at the end of the day, he’s a pretty good one. He’ll come up with something. And Luxury Tax and all that krapolla? John Henry will leave the check on DD’s desk, with instructions to call him with what he made it out for.
And Henry’s right; he’s usually is. Who’s out there that’s going make a HUGE difference? I’m not seeing anybody who may even be worth their paucity of prospect capital. Pitchers who gobble up the NL West may find the AL East a bit more distasteful.
Why you gotta bait like that?
Sox used most of their best farm hands in trades and promoting to mlb team,
cupboard is now bare
How is it bare? They have 2 Top 100 Prospects (Casas & Duran) & The Red Sox Top 10 Prospects all have 50 Grades or Better
Is Duran a top prospect? I don’t think I’ve seen him on any lists.
I don’t know that he is or not either. he played in the futures game earlier, maybe that’s what was based on. having 1 total season of pro ball experience and that kind of honor is indeed special. I’d expect him to be ranked in 2nd half boards in probability, same with next season’s top listings.
That’s just false. Casas is ranked 110 and is the only 50 grade prospect in the system.
The link to Fangraphs is in the article, maybe click it.
There will be bullpen and probably starting pitchers available for cash at the deadline which is where many teams will be looking to potentially to stock up their rotations.
Each year stands on its own, and it’s interesting to note that Boston is counting on Eovaldi to be the pitcher he was last year after he was traded to them…..his overall ML track record certainly doesn’t warrant the Red Sox putting all the their eggs in his basket if they truly are going to make a run.
The problem with the BoSox bullpen, per what we have read about, is that the starters are forcing overuse of the bullpen….adding a “closer” in Eovaldi doesn’t solve that issue does it?
“the starters are forcing overuse of the bullpen” The same thing can certainly said about the Yankees.
*be said
only difference is the yankees bullpen is loaded top to bottom, and shutting opponents down.
I remember one year when there was a Sox reliever with 5 saves as of July 8. Recently installed as their closer at the end of June, he went in to have one of the greatest years ever by a relief pitcher. The Sox won the World Championship that year. It can happen. Do the Red Sox have another Koji in their midst? Time will tell.
Mets should be stepping up to offer Wheeler. Boston has enough in the system to get him.
The Sox and Yankees are about to enter a bidding war for the same asset and this bodes well for sellers.
Red Sox don’t have the prospects to do a bidding war for pitching,
This is just a Lying, Relievers don’t cost a lot of money. They haven’t for the Years, Go look at the Reliever Trades in the Last 2 Years.
Everyone wants them but no one will give more than Spare Parts & Prospects who have lost their Shine
Talking about starting pitching here, that’s what the article is about and there is no way the Yankees need relief help.
very good relievers are at a premium price.
Red Sox can go in the junk bin for relievers, but those are not better than what they have now….
No more lefties in the rotation!
What assets does Boston think it has to move in a trade? Clearly they are hoping one of the selling teams is antsy and pulls the trigger well before the deadline. Boston can’t compete with what any other contending team could offer.
they have plenty. but the other teams need to look at each individual player at each level of the farm system.
Define plenty? Sure they have plenty of minor league players but they don’t have a top 100 prospect and they can’t match any other package from other teams. Which explains why they are trying to go at targets now. More likely they get a Cashner type with their “plenty of assets”.
It is currently a “Sellers Market”.
Prices will be very high on pitching.
I seriously doubt the Red Sox can even land Cashner with their barren farm system.
All their best prospects have been promoted to the majors or traded.
Offer Rafael Devers as part of a package and GMs won’t hang up on Dombrowski..
I was thinking Buyer’s Market due to the larger number of selling teams.
They can’t land Cashner? This is a ridiculous take. When people say Boston’s system is “barren” that’s not to be taken literally. That’s a complete joke if you think they can’t acquire any rental starter they want to. If DD is willing to move any of his prospects he can get any rental starter on the market right now. Boyd and perhaps Stroman are the only available starters I could see them being unable to acquire because they were outbid.
*Bumgarner*
I think the Sox have the prospect capital to get Bumgarner. If they offer Casas and Flores/Groome who is going to outbid them? Almost every team could outbid them but that does not mean they will for Madison Bumgarner. A fringe top 100 prospect plus another high upside guy in Groome or Flores is a haul for MadBum. Sure, the Yanks could go give them Florial and Deivi but are they going to do that? No. So if Boston wants him, I think they got him. I think Bum goes for less than that to be completely honest with you.
How many teams do you think are sellers and how many arms are likely to be moved. The White Sox may be sellers but their rotation is pretty young to be selling off.
You really think the Giants would take that offer? Lol
You’re going to be as upset as you are when you hear Brian Kenny mention OBP if you think the Giants are getting more than a top 100 prospect and another volatile high upside prospect. That’s great value for half a year of Mad Bum. I bet you get less.
Sportsfan0000 if the Sox offered Devers there would be no pitching not available. They are not going to do that of course and if GM’s ask for Devers DD would simply hang up.
Someone will overpay for Bumgarner. The Giants won’t move him unless someone overpays. They’re a stubborn bunch. I think they will be fine with the 80th pick of the 2020 draft if nobody is willing to overpay. Bumgarner has the no trade clause because he won’t accept to be traded for some low level or fading/aging prospect. He cares to protect his image. There’s no pressure for Bum to leave the Giants this season. He has three titles. Anyone who wants Bumgarner are gonna have to woo him.
deivi is untouchable. the 2nd coming of pedro martinez. this kid is electric.
It’s more than just the Giants. Bumgarner won’t waive his no trade clause to be traded for such prospects. This might sound jerkish of BUM, but he’s going to protect his brand. He won’t waive the no trade clause for his simple prospects. Fans needs to realize this.
Non sense…Good player, but it would take more to get elite level pitching, relievers…
Red Sox have plenty of warm bodies in the minors, but not enough top 100 prospects to get even a mid rotation starter in a sellers market…
Having a SUPPOSED farm, think bout it, every yr almost another hot prospect arrived to do damage.
Why does everyone think their farm is their trade bait or lack of it. They have plenty on the ML roster to deal.
Who can they afford to deal from the “ML roster”?
Porcello, Moreland, Holt to Name
the Players who are Rentals that aren’t resigning. They’re trying to add pitching so Porcello wouldn’t make sense in a Buying Scenario.
JBJ, Workman if you get into the 2020 Red Sox Free Agents
None of whom will get anything and all of whom will weaken their overall depth if dealt.
None. The answer is none. The Red Sox have nothing they can trade off their ML roster without getting worse. The idea that they don’t have enough for a rental starter is just completely ludicrous though. DD doesn’t mind taking his farm down to the studs. They’re extremely thin right now but they could get a lot emptier in 3 weeks.
wow, just WOW
Get a grip please
Homer Bailey is available for cheap!
Id rather take a mop with a glove taped to it than Bailey
That’s just mean. A mop cant clean on it’s own. At least Homer can clean up when using a mop.
Maybe Homer can be their mop up guy.
Hey-oooooooo!
Wheeler for groome and durbin felbin
I hope we get someone
I hafta say I’m speechless. Nate signed to be a starter now they wanna put him in the Blow-pen. I smell something rotten in bean town.
Cashner throws hard and has experience in the bullpen. In the playoffs teams only use 4 starters. Perhaps they get cashner to be their 5th starter and then put him in the pen come playoff time
Would you really want to start Rick porcello in October? I’d probably start cashner ahead of him right now.
You make a good point. But I don’t think porcello stays as bad as he has been. He has never been this bad before. And if he catches fire down the stretch then I am fine with him as the 4th starter
And historically, his numbers are better post all star break
That’s fair. I’m just saying as of today I’m giving cash the ball over porcello. If porcello doesn’t rebound they may not make it to October anyhow.
If you’re a Red Sox fan you should know that the last 2 years Porcellos era the second half were 4.50 and 4.54 but good point
Yes, in 2017 he had a 4.50 in the second half. He also went 7-6. .,,But that was better than his 4.75 first half with a 4-11 record
The Red Sox stripped their farm system bare in previous trades so getting a high end starter is probably not going to happen in the trade market unless Red Sox want to trade one or more of their young star players.
I am not seeing the Red Sox matching up with the Tigers for Boyd or for most other competitive starters with team control left for reasonable prices/
Maybe a desperate team dumping a pending free agent veteran might work something out, but Red Sox prospect capital has been almost totally depleted and it would be a hard sell…
Try signing Bartolo Colon or picking up a high salaried question mark like Zimmerman.
I doubt the Red Sox are too concerned with team control right now. Rentals are much cheaper from a prospect and long term cost control standpoint for a team which is already looking severely hamstrung for the future.
Should be interesting.
I don’t believe the bullpen is always as so significant for the playoffs. A really strong bullpen can make up for a weak starting rotation, but I’ll take a great rotation over a great bullpen 7 days a week. After all, if your starters give you a lead and work deep, the bullpen isn’t much of a factor.
I think the question is how the Red Sox will get this done.
I think Dave Dombrowski might Debate you on that point.
When he was President/GM of the Tigers for over 10 year pennant contending run, the Tigers achilles heel was their bullpen…that cost them one or more World Series championships…
Tigers had a Rotation of Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, David Price, Anibal Sanchez and Robbie Ray at one time..
Their bullpen always killed them. in the playoffs and WS.
Not against the Giants, they got to all of tigers starters! I’m sure their bullpen didn’t help
Game 2 : Fister pitched 6 shutout innings. Left after letting leadoff man on and the bullpen let him down.
Game 3 : Sanchez gave up 2 runs in 7 innings.
Game 4 : went 10 innings. Sherzer went 6 1/3 and left when it was 3 to 3.
Only game they hit the starter was against Verlander in game 1.
Tigers hit .159 for the series. That was their main reason for losing. They went 6 games between ALCS and WS. Giants went 2. Leyland said he hated the long wait between games. They also did that in 2006. .
Santiago Casilla and Jeremy Affeldt are both now retired, but both have scoreless innings pitch ed records that are tops in the NL and only second to Mariano in the playoffs in some categories. These are the same guys who shut down the mighty Cardinals, Phillies, Reds, Rangers teams who had potent offenses. I know Detroit likes to makes excuses for 2012, but this was nothing new for the Giants. Their bullpen in 2010-2014 is among the best ever on any given stretch during the playoffs.
That series was a complete fluke.
Giants were not even the best team in the NL.
Giants got hot at just the right time and ran the table.
Tigers swept throught the AL Decisively, then had a long layoff waiting for the NL to be decided. After sweeping in the AL playoffs, Tigers long layoff cooled them off and contributed hugely to their cold play in the WS….
Tigers were not as bad as they played.
Giants were not as good as they played.
Look up regular season stats for both teams. Nobody, at least me is claiming Detroit was bad in 2012. The Giants had the second best team batting average on road in the second half. The Bullpen during the playoffs was nails and hammer. Casilla, Lopez, Romo, JA they were all solid pieces in the run. Stats don’t lie. Yes, Detroit had something special with Prince and Miggy, but have you ever heard the phrase good pitching beats good batting? It’s not like the Giants pitching got hot at the right time. That’s a lie. They had a track record of good pitching over their championships run. Yes Detroit had good pitching, but if you’re going to tell me their pen was as good as the Giants, lol.
I am a NYY fan. From our side,you lost it when you didn’t resign your closer. Then passed on Dallas after the draft. MB & Wheeler can beat the Yanks. If you can’t get them don’t even bother.
What you have is off this year. And putting Eovaldi in the pen as a closer…he’s had TWO TJ SURGERIES.
Yankees blew it when the lowballed the Tigers on Verlander and then lowballed the Pirates on Gerrit Cole.
George Steinbrenner would have made those deals.
Hal Steinbrenner not so much..
Thank You!!
yeah and the farm would be barren and the team bloated with gigantic long term contracts.
And like Boston, the NYY would have won at least 1 WS the last few years…
Their front 4 make almost 100 million. Maybe they should have resigned their one good reliever.
Same mistake Dave D made in Detroit by not resigning as a free agent the guy he drafted and traded: Andrew Miller….
He got a Young Miguel Cabrera for Andrew Miller…… what are you even saying?
He sent a package of young players prospects to Miami for Cabrera…
What I am saying that is obvious…
Dave D and Tigers should havae signed Miller to close when Miller was a FA….Miller wanted an offer from Dave D and Tigers and never got one. Yankees signed Miller.
Tigers worst need was not filled by Dave D…
Reliable bullpen….
Eovaldi is in the Bullpen, so That money is technically IN the bullpen (for now?).
& Porcello’s 21 Million is off the Books after
the 2019 Season
then in 2020 it’s Price31-Sale26-Erod7
So that’s roughly 65 Million, & if you include Eovaldi in the rotation again in 2020. You’re around 82-85 Million.
Didn’t Sale sign an extension?
The Red Sox captured the 2018 World Series in part by emptying their farm system in trades for Craig Kimbrel and Chris Sale, as well as handing out big contracts to David Price, Rick Porcello and J.D. Martinez.
That’s a defensible strategy but leaves the Sox in a tough position going forward.
Not really, they dumped most of their system onto their current roster that won it. They traded a few nice pieces but other than Moncada none of what they gave up would clearly have a role on their team. The only mess they have is the contracts they have for their rotation if it impacts signing their homegrown core.
Hey Sox, you can have Harvey and Cahill, they won’t cost you very much
I think the Sox would rather have Ebola.
The Red Sox are having a hard time with honest self-assessment. Say they throw Henry’s budget and the luxury tax considerations out the window and go add Max Scherzer (not necessarily available, but going with a top-top arm). Does this team beat Houston in a 5-7 game series? Do they beat the Yankees?
I don’t think so.
You are throwing all facts and logic out the window here.
Scherzer is probably not available.
If Scherzer or a similar ace was available, then Red Sox Do not have the multiple top 100 prospects in their system to even offer a competitive bid a top of thre rotation starter…
That’s my whole point (note, not available). Honest self-assessment means looking internally at your options and realizing you don’t have any. So I took the most outrageous of scenarios and analyzed if I added the best starter conceivably available and perennial Cy Young winner, do the Red Sox win the World Series? The answer is still, no. Not even close.
So why bother adding a Stroman, who’s’ not even close to that level? Instead, they should be looking at themselves as sellers with a unique opportunity to capitalize on what should be a strong seller’s market given what’s available. There are teams looking for a 3rd to 5th starter. Sox could get something for Porcello if they eat some of the remaining dollars. They could get quite a bit for Martinez. They could set records with what they’d get for Betts.
Their best bet is to align themselves to be competitive as Houston and New York’s windows start to close in 2021.
I didn’t throw logic out the window. I presented the best possible case scenario I could come up with to make the team better by adding a starter. And even with that starter, I don’t think the Red Sox are even close to favorites and maybe not even 50/50 in a head to head matchup with the Yankees or Astros (pending Severino’s health and the Yankees adding an arm).
Making the playoffs and losing in the Wild Card or even Division Series is like getting straight A’s all year long and then failing out in the final semester. It doesn’t make failing out feel any better, especially when you see your window closing fast and Betts hitting free agency for a draft pick in 2020.
Since when is the window closing on HOU or NYY in 2021? That’s a pretty far fetched thing to say, though I agree with the majority of what you’re saying
Trade Mookie Betts. We need to rebuild the farm, and honestly, this guy isn’t resigning with us.
And like Boston, the NYY would have won at least 1 WS the last few years…
You’re not being blunt enough. Scherzer is DEFINITELY not available.
Did you forget about the ring they won last year already?
Nope…
But. they stripped the farm sytem to win it.
Some of their young players may be leaving in FA
including CF and starting pitching etc….
By this comment, I can tell you just misunderstood my initial statement. 100%.
Betts is a RF by the way. CF is JBJ. I don’t think anyone will be super sad to see his hole in the lineup closed.
Jesus Christ dude give it a rest
Sportsfan***
That’s why I pitch to stop being greedy and going for another. No team has deleted their closer, restocked the same exact team, and gone on to win again. Look at the constantly retooling late 90s Yankees as a great example. Soriano came up in 99-2000 and they signed Clemens. David Justice in 2000. I’m a bit sketchy on all the details as it was going back 20 years now, but I remember every year, even when they lost someone, they always added. They maintained the core and tweaked.
The Red Sox failed to tweak in 2019. They brought back the same exact squad top to bottom and if not for Chavis breaking out and Devers taking that next step, they’d be sitting under .500 and selling. That’s honest self-assessment.
Not to mention another saving grace in Marco Hernandez who has made Pedroia’s injury not hurt as bad since his return.
Did last year. All about what team shows up for the series.
Neither.
They don’t beat the Rays, the Twins or the Indians also
AAA SP-L Kyle Hart looks like he might be ready for “the show”. Perhaps the BoSox should look at him first.
They can get someone, but teams can easily outbid them.
Even a team with a middle-to-upper farm like the Yankees can offer 2 ML-ready players like Andujar or Frazier. They don’t even need them, and most starters only fetch lottery prospects, like Sale, Verlander, or Gray.
DD likes to gut the minor league teams, and these are the problems that creates.
What the White Sox got for Sale was hardly a lottery prospect, if you mean a shot in the dark. Moncada’s been a beast this year, as was always expected as he was the #1 prospect in baseball. He’s got a .908 OPS 16 home runs and 6 steals from the 2B & 3B positions. He’s a true 4 to 5 tool player and as close to a sure thing as you can get.
But they got that because there was still years left on Sale’s deal. Kopech’s stuff was off the charts as well.
But yes, now the farm system is relatively barren of the type of prospects that can keep others off the market. DD gave up those prospects for Sale and Pomeranz. Lucky for DD, 2 of those 3 elite level prospects seem to have fizzled out quite a bit due to Tommy John surgery. And I hardly think they regret giving up Moncada and Kopech for Sale given that they resigned Sale.
Right now the Sox are up the creek without a paddle. I’m not sure how they plan to add anything of relevance they won’t get outbid for. And I don’t recommend flipping Casas, Houck, Mata, Flores or anything like that, because that further leverages the future. Dalbec is expendable. That’s about it. Groome is injured.
I could see a Mike Leake trade to Boston. He’s had a few clunkers this year, but his best game was his last game.
Leake is a tad expensive and signed for next year, and the Mariners clearly value unloading salary over gaining prospects.
The Sox could easily acquire him, but do they want his contract and deep flyball tendencies?
Why add Leake to a team with a “leaking” Bullpen? Seriously…. no to Leake…. buy low on Aaron Sanchez. Cashner would be a good 5th starter, they do not need a top line starter…. just a reliable guy that gives them a chance to win and takes the ball every 5th game so we stop this bullpen bs every 5th game.
A reliable guy who gives them a chance to win more accurately depicts Mike Leake than Aaron Sanchez. Don’t know how that definition could possibly fit Sanchez.
I’m with Bigz. Sanchez has not been the same since the last finger issue – one of many.
I believe Wheeler is within reach. The Mets would be out of their minds to ask for the world.
If I had to choose from this bunch, it’d be Cashner. But I think any pitcher who can’t pitch consistently into the 7th inning is utterly useless to this team. And without a closer, they are all useless. Red Sox rank 26 of 30 in 9th inning runs allowed per game. The starters are at fault too, if you go inning by inning. But the 9th inning is a particular problem.
https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/opponent-9th-inning-runs-per-game
The teams below them, for the record:
27- Marlins
28- Mets
29- Orioles
30 – Colorado
Yankees rank 23rd of 30 in 1st inning runs allowed, but the Red Sox are barely better at 22nd. If you bring this to the first 4 innings of the game, the Yankees rank 5th and the Red Sox rank 24th.
The discrepancy is so much larger then anyone is giving credit for on the front and back ends.
Oh, so now he wants to add.
Wheeler,Ramos and Lagares to Boston for Vazquez,Bradley and Lakins(rp). This gives the Mets a young catcher a real CF and a RP that they really need.
Wheeler,Ramos and Lagares to Boston for Vazquez,Bradley and Lakins(rp). This gives the Mets a young catcher a real CF and a RP that they really need.
————————————————————–
To summarize, three expensive NYM players (combined $22M) for a combined WAR of 1.5, in exchange for (currently) the best catcher in the AL, a plus CF, and a B prospect.
Are you sure you don’t want to throw in Cespedes and Cano as well?
I’d rather just trade Betts straight up than change 3 guys in our roster.
The Red Sox aren’t trading from there current big league roster. I am hoping they stand pat or make a cheap acquisition they should just continue to build the farm and only trade from it when it has a good chance of putting them over the top. This year is not that year. If the Underperforming Red Sox starters pitch better in the second half they will be a dangerous team but they are to light on prospects to trade to assume that is going to happen. Just stay the course and see how it goes. If they get into the playoffs then that means their starters performed in the second half and in playoff situations they can double out of the pen.
The hole in the 5-slot is simply too big to be left unaddressed. Even if we had Johnson, and he gave us 5-6 innings, with a 4.50-4.75, I could live with it. That’s a .500+ pitcher with our offense, and not too hard on the BP.
But Velasquez and company are killing us. Our SPs, outside of our 1-4, combine for 2-7 with a 6.56 in 20 starts. Along with the bad record and bad ERA, they average 3.63 innings per start. That might mean 5 RPs in the game.
I absolutely agree that, if our front four guys don’t start pitching better, we’re doomed in the playoffs anyway. But there is a decent chance that, even if they started pitching better, our 5-hole donut could prevent us from reaching the playoffs.
You are assuminig that the Red Sox even make the playoffs..
Red Sox are on the bubble for the playoffs.
I like the rising Tampa Rays chances better.
Rays are loaded and have a loaded farm system.
Rays could make any deal they want to make for upgrades.
There are two wild card spots available
If the Sale pitches like Sale in the second half and Porcello and Edro pitch well they will win one of the wild card spots then we will see what happens.
The Red Sox will be fine. Making one of the two wild card spots is not an ambitious goal. It should happen easily. The Red Sox hitting is still better than the Yankees and their Starters are better than the Yankees, it’s only the relief corp that isn’t better than the Yankees.
The Yankees are not in the lead because of Stanton, Judge, Sanchez and Gregorious. Urshela, LeMahieu and Voit have been their stars. Their core players strike out all the time as opposed to the guys that carried them to their good record. They will come back to the pack.
Tampa Bay is a good team and should make the playoffs with the Red Sox as the wild card teams. Snell versus Price/Sale will be the key to seeing who plays the Yankees. Both teams have a great chance of beating them because the Yankees have a history of choking and good pitching beats big dudes who strike out allot.
Houston has been discounted too much. They still have a tremendous hitting line-up like the Red Sox. Not HR hitters as much as guys who put the ball in play and that’s what wins playoff series. The Astros should handle Minnesota or Cleveland if they don’t finish with the best record.
As long as the Red Sox hit in the second half, they will be fine, even with Cora as manager. Chavis has been the equivalent of a great off season pick-up, Devers may finally be living up to expectations, Vasquez is having a career year, Holt if he can stay healthy keeps the turn-style moving and even JBJ is now behind his annual awful start. That leaves their nucleus of Betts, JD, Benny, Bogey. They will regress to the norm in the second half so our offense should be even better the rest of the way.
Nobody will care about the bullpen in the post-season because starters will be used like last year. If Eovaldi proves to be a good closer then I think we are set for a solid second half. There is no need to catch the Yankees at this point because we play better on the road and they self-destruct in the post-season. We just need to win enough games to make the wildcard spot! Hopefully we’ll have everything going well in late September like the Patriots finishing a football season on an up note.
FYI, the Yankees spent $40M less than us last year (a first!) as a result this off-season their moves have made our payrolls fairly comparable. Why would any Red Sox fan think John Henry wouldn’t match anything the Yankees did to go over the third salary hurdle? I expect both to try to stay below but if one goes over, I expect the other to go over too.
It has been very hard to repeat.
Red Sox had an incredible run last years.
Red Sox are not the team they were last year.
RS players were having career years last year.
Not so this year.
Indians are just getting hot.
Twins have been hot most of the season.
If I had to pick the AL playoffs teams at this point:
Tampa Rays (due to get hot)
Yankees (will be adding starter(s)
Twins, Indians, Astros
with the
Red Sox missing the playoffs…
Astros, Twins, Rays all have better starting pitching than the
Red Sox and Yankees..
Yankees have a chance for major improvements, but are too timid to trade for top of the rotation starters.
Red Sox don’t have the prospect capital to significantly improve their rotation.
Red Sox also have serious bullpen issues.
Starting pitching and bullpen issues will derail the Red Sox.
Boston took the spring off and started out slow. They are due for a better second half. You said they had career years last year but not really. They are much better at C, better at 1B, still working on 2B, much better at 3B, same at SS, same in LF, same in CF, down in RF from a guy likely to get his numbers then in the rest of the season. The biggest difference is underperformance in SP and asking too much from an ok bullpen. SP shows up and they walk into the playoffs. If it doesnt dont trade anything bc they’ve just chosen to walk through this season.
I doubt it…
Rays are better.
NYY are better.
Astros are better.
Twins are better.
Indians are better
Everything came together for them last year.
They have taken at least 3 steps back this year…
REDSUX will remain a 3rd place team this season
So no actual comment as I showed offensively they are about the same. It all comes down to starting pitching and it is very possible that taking March and April off will mean they have a better second half.
Pick your poison.
Red Sox starting pitching has taken a big step back,
Red Sox bullpen has taken a big step back.
Red Sox offense has been very streaky..terrible at times, better other times..
This is not the same club that won theWS last year.
Which is the Real Red Sox?!
Last year playing over their heads?!
Or this year having come back to earth and significant holes in their team?!
Again, who played over their heads? It is the underperforming $80Mish rotation that hasnt shown up. Ask Sale, he will agree. Bullpen was around top 10 until recently when all that has been asked caught up. 1 problem, poor starting pitching, from a rotation who basically skipped spring. Bad decision but still time to make up for it.
A comma before “too” is unnecessary.
Lots of names thrown around… but who are we going to trade? We have no one in the farm to compete with others for the best pitchers. Betts is like our only option and I’m up for it. He’s not resigning with us.
The RS have more than enough fr a guy like Wheeler. He is 6-6 with a 4.69 ERA. What do you think he’ll fetch? Happ was pitching better than that last year for TO, and he only returned Drury & McKinney. Eovaldi was better than Wheeler is this year, and he only cost Beeks.
I think y’all are overrating the return for some of the more pedestrian trade candidates.
the sox don’t have enough for wheeler. i think you are overvaluing fringe prospects.
I’d be curious to hear your opinion of what you think Wheeler will fetch in a trade.
It is a sellers market.
Lack of viable options being traded by Sellers is jacking prices up.
In a buyers market, Red Sox have better chance of cobbling together a deal on a mid or lower end starter.
There are little or no trades so far, so we don’t know the market.
We also have a jumble in the WC spots, where maybe 10 teams are competing for WCs, but that could be 5 teams in another two weeks.
FWIW, I rarely see a robust market for #4/5 SPs.
Robust market for both starting pitching and relievers…
This didn’t occur to me until just now despite seeing this a while ago (when it was first reported anyway) could this possibly be a misdirection from the Sox? Even the whole hype around Eovaldi going to the pen could be a part of it. Last year at the deadline the Yankees wound up with the guy who seemed to be the best fit for the Red Sox (Zach Britton) then the Red Sox seemingly pivoted to the best fit (on paper) for the Yankees (Eovaldi) could this be an attempt to get out in front of things this year when they might actually be looking to acquire a RP/CL but want to also drive up the asking price for SPs to make the Yankees overpay, thus opening the door for the Sox to acquire a CL under the radar? Not saying this is for sure what’s going on or there’s some massive conspiracy at play – but if their true intentions are a CL this wouldn’t be a bad ploy to throw the division rivals (and all of baseball) off their scent while actually trying to do something else? idk just a thought – in all honesty a SP or a RP would both help the Sox so either way if they do make a move it would improve a staff that’s been roughed up thus far this season so either route is obviously appealing in its own respect.
Teams with much deeper farm systems are looking at Closers and set up guys also.
Dodgers, Rays, Astros, Indians, Phillies and many more are also looking at bullpen upgrades.
The world does not revolve around the Red Sox and Yankees. as much as the East Coast media would lead you to believe.
When you rank the closers overall and then see who is potentially available you’ll see that a guy like Yates is what SportsFanoooo is talking about. Yates, however, shouldn’t be traded and if SD does it, their GM should be fired. Next on that list is Greene and he might be expensive but which contenders need a closer? Boston – none, Yankees – Chapman, Rays – none, Cleveland – Hand, Minnesota – probably need one, Houston – Osuna, LA Angels – Hansel (might want one but their likeliness of competing suggest not), Texas – Kelley (same scenario as LA but more likely to be in race so could want one), Seattle – Roenis (similar to LA). The National League contenders – Cubs = Kimbrell, Milwaukee – Hader, Cincy – Iglesias, Pit – Vasquez, Atlanta – Jackson, Mets – Diaz, Phily – Neris, Arizona – Holland, St Louis – Martinez, Dodgers – Jansen, SD – Yates, Colorado – Davis.
So this “robust’ relief market you’ve mentioned is for teams to give up prospects or pay big money to a guy not closing for them? The Dodgers? With Jansen and Baez may want a Green to add to their bullpen? Really? They have Urias too!! I disagree with the Dodgers needing an existing closer. Rays? They are filled with live arms but they need a closer so that is ONE so far. Astros – they have a solid pen but tend to find guys who fit a need so a set-up man seems likely but a closer to do set up is expensive and they don’t really need that so would they waste their money on a closer versus set-up? Maybe but not likely unless it’s a dirt cheap closer and they may not exist. The Indians have Hand but need depth so same argument as Houston but a stronger emphasis on cheap due to giving up guys in the off-season to reduce payroll. Phillies – If they are willing to spend big money for a legit closer like Greene, Smith or Giles then yes they too are in the market for a legit closer.
So, after a review of the suggested teams needing closers it turns out that Philly and Tampa Bay have a need like Boston. There are three available closers on weak teams; Greene, Smith and Giles. That is not the definition of a robust market for closers. It’s just the opposite, it’s a modest market for closers. Guys like Yates and Vazquez and Iglesias can be talked about but those folks may be who you are referring to as too expensive for Boston. Only Greene, of the available closers is ranked among the leaders in saves. I would expect him to be most expensive and a likely target of either Philly or Tampa. Of course, with the limited money left for the Yankees before exceeding the 3rd tier of the payroll cap, it wouldn’t surprise me if they got yet another reliever since they need a starter. It fits their way of thinking and the main reason they never win. Lets hope they do that. Otherwise, the market for a guy like Smith or Giles should not be that great. Smith is a lefty so he might have appeal to Boston so it comes down to whether SF wants more than not highly ranked prospects for him or possibly a guy like Moreland or Pearce or both. Since Belt is in SF it’s not likely! Smith seems like a logical target for Boston and people saying this is a robust market will drive up the expectatons of the teams with available closers.
There is one Tier 2 closer available and 2 Tier 3 closers available. If the teams owning the players want tier 1 or 2 prices for them, it probably won’t happen. Guys like Stammen and Giovanny Gallegos will be the new targets for those needing depth. The Red Sox should be able to find someone at the right price to help the bullpen. Maybe a closer which allows Eovaldi to move back to the rotation or maybe a big arm to use as closer. Time will tell which direction we go.
Face it redSUX… you are NOT going to stop the YANKEES from a WS date with the BRAVES here in 2019
life long Dodger fan here….love the fun part of rivalry. I have to give Bumgarner or at least his agent a tip of the cap. They put most of the teams that are almost always in contention on his blocked list. That would be worth few million either directly or an extension to get him to waive it. Not sure he’s worth what he will cost but no doubt he could help pretty much any team. WS experience is invaluable in a pitcher. Plus he’s also part of the all angry red-arse squad, i like a mean streak in a pitcher.
I just have to view him as a #3 currently but with true ace ability. Someone will grab him. Put him as #3 or #4 on a teal WS rotation and i bet he really amps up his game. Piss off a red-arse pitcher with the right stuff then just stand back and watch….and yes, I’m conflicted on him as a Dodger. Jeff Kent never fully one me over but he was clutch, learned to appreciate him.
Gotta love this danged game!