Although he reached free agency last offseason as one of the most accomplished starters on the open market, former AL Cy Young winner Dallas Keuchel went without a team for a shockingly long time. Keuchel, who looked like a shoo-in to sign a lucrative multiyear deal at the outset of the winter, ended up settling for the Braves’ one-year, $13MM offer shortly after the amateur draft in early June.
The fact that Keuchel’s previous team, the Astros, attached a qualifying offer to him before he became a free agent was an obvious cause for the difficulty he encountered on the market. The longer Keuchel sat without a deal, the closer the draft came. The closer the draft came, the more content teams were to wait Keuchel out and attempt to sign the Scott Boras client without having to give up compensation in the form of a pick(s).
With the qualifying offer system still intact heading into this winter, there could be some soon-to-be free agents who meet a similar fate to what Keuchel and fellow post-draft signing Craig Kimbrel faced earlier in 2019. Keuchel won’t be one of them, as a player can’t receive a QO twice, though he explained to Jesse Rogers of ESPN that he remains frustrated with the setup that’s in place.
“This is whole draft-pick compensation thing went from a throw-in for a team losing a player, to is he really a free agent now?” Keuchel said.“How can you be free if there is a draft pick attached to you? And why do they value draft picks so much when the percentage of picks who make the league, and are better than you, is what, like .01 percent? There are so many things wrong.”
Like many of his fellow players, Keuchel’s irked by the last two offseasons, both of which were notoriously sluggish from a free agency standpoint. “It’s not just us being the bad guys,” Keuchel said of the players.
Keuchel’s among those displeased with the way free agency has been trending, though that doesn’t mean he didn’t receive multiyear offers during his trip to the market. On the contrary, the Angels were among those who were willing to commit more than one year to Keuchel, per Rogers. However, Keuchel believed those teams “undervalued” him, writes Rogers. It also seems signing with a playoff-caliber club was a priority for Keuchel, who, despite his relatively underwhelming results in free agency, believes he’s now “in the best possible for scenario for myself” as a member of a World Series-contending Braves team.
Although he wasn’t the ace-caliber hurler we’ve seen in the past, Keuchel did help the Braves to an NL East title after his midseason arrival. The 31-year-old threw 112 2/3 innings of 3.75 ERA/4.72 FIP with 7.27 K/9 and 3.12 BB/9 and a 60.1 percent groundball rate in the regular season, and then added 4 2/3 innings of one-run ball in the team’s Game 1 loss to the Cardinals in the NLDS. With that series heading to a winner-take-all Game 5 on Wednesday (in which Mike Foltynewicz will take the mound for Atlanta), Keuchel might not make another start for the Braves. The club could try to re-sign Keuchel whenever its season ends, but it if that doesn’t happen, he’ll have to test the free-agent waters again. While it’s likely Keuchel’s next deal will outdo his current pact, he doesn’t seem thrilled about returning to the market.
“I still have to go back into the zoo [free agency] but I figured if this offseason doesn’t present more offers, more swiftly, like the NBA or the NFL, then the normal fan will see exactly what’s going on,” Keuchel said. “That’s what I want people to see.”
Peace! No one will miss you!
What is it like to lick a billionaires boot? Asking for a friend!
Wow Pseudo… You literally proved me right. Before I clicked on the comments button I was thinking you would likely be making incredibly negative comments about Keuchel. Then I clicked. I guess I must be psychic because you are the FIRST POST! Someone call Dr. Phil for me so I can show off my abilities on his show. J/k… I knew because earlier today you kept calling Keuchel’s season with the Braves “terrible.” I don’t know how anyone thinks a 3.75 ERA and one if the best groundball rates is all of baseball is “terrible” for a $13 million contract. It shows a lack of understanding of economics and makes it highly likely you have less functional grey matter overall. The ignorant are always the loudest. You also pointed out how much you “dislike” Josh Donaldson and can’t wait to see him leave this offseason. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but yours are so clearly ignorant and you post them about 10 times as much as every intelligent opinion someone else makes. The loud aren’t always ignorant but why are the ignorant always loud?
I think he has a valid complaint. The Q.O. offer is a flawed element of the system. It seems to me its earnest function was meant to compensate guys who might’ve received similar enough pay for less or more AAV over a few seasons on a FA deal but for whatever reason they need a season to re-tool, or their market is unclear, or the team and player want to stay together but they don’t have a happy middle ground on pricing and years, so paying a large but still moderate-for-the-game’s-economics Q.O. is a fair compromise for a player hoping to secure their financial and playing future and a team looking for cost certainty in a situation they’re uncertain about.
That’s what it’s for, as far as I can tell.
How it actually now function is, a team wants their player who is a FA, but wants them on a hometown discount. The player wants to go to the market, hope competitive offers push their price and total guaranteed years up and maximize the value of their turn in FA. Team gives player Q.O., other teams now worry/assume that whatever draft pick they give up will turn into the next player who, if and when they reach FA, will be worth a draft pick because they’re so good and wouldn’t take a Q.O. because that implies diminished value and earning potential anyway….
The Q.O. as is forces a “vicious” and unnecessary cycle and I really don’t think F.A. constitutes a loss for teams if they’re always worried about their log jam of aging soon-to-be-high-priced-veterans blocking prospects in the minors or riding the bench anyway.
Seems like players and teams all understand and accept the nature of FA, the upsides and downsides and the Q.O. is a penalty on everybody for no reason, despite its reasonable intention of long term parity and recouping the overpriced value of the departing FA super star with the hopefully wunderkind league minimum paid draft pick studs.
No team is letting a valued FA leave so they can have a lottery powerball long-shot of that draft pick turning into a stay player 3-5 years later. The intent was to reward the small market team that couldn’t afford to keep their star player but relies on the farm. Think about it. How many 1st round pick becomes an impact player? The true obvious gems usually end up going top 10 in the draft. I’m not saying the rest of the 1st or any other slot WON’T find worthy players but the likelihood diminishes outside the 10-15 picks.
It was only a few years ago where a team that signed a top FA (i forget how it was determined) would lose their 1st round pick to the team they poached the player they signed from. Yanks got the Indians pick when they signed Swisher and we later drafted Judge with the pick. Yanks lost their 1st round pick to the Angels when they signed Texeira and they later drafted Trout. I’m not sure if the QO has ANY roll in what teams do. I do think that teams have become overly enamored with draft picks. But the penalty of losing a 1st rnd pick has always been there.
Of course the compensation for signing a QO tagged player hasn’t been as steep regarding draft picks as it was prior to last offseason yet the free agent market for both Dallas Keuchel and Craig Kimbrel still dwindled. If this repeats with likely tagged pitchers in the upcoming FA class such as Madison Bumgarner and Zack Wheeler it will no longer be a coincidence and become borderline collusion by the owners.
Keuchel wanted to be paid like an ace,Kimbrel wanted to be the 1st reliever to see 100mil.Their expectations held them back more than the qualifying offer.
100% correct.
Well said Green.
100% agree.
Bumgarner seems like a sensible guy and will probably take what the market comes up with for him (probably nine-figure deal.) Wheeler might be expecting a nine-figure deal based on some news articles/his agents advice and reject a bunch of good $70m offers to instead languish and settle for a midsession pillow and without much stuffing.
Maybe it’s a just a case that the FA players have over valued themselves in there contract demands. And that the owners have been burned in free agency too many times and have decided the risks out weigh the rewards. The contracts the players want – both in dollars and in years- are simply no good for the team. How about they realize the bubble has burst and start seeing the writing in the wall.
No shot on Wheeler. The guys who throw 99 don’t have a problem finding a deal. It’s the past their prime guys who want an oversized contract that get left in the dark. Teams will not pay you for the past. In a guy like Wheeler’s case it’s not hard to see a better future. Might not work IE Eovaldi last year. But those guys have the offers lined up.
True enough Regi Green. However if both Keuchel and Kimbrel were free of their QO tag they surely would have signed a contract prior to opening day, likely before spring camp and not have had to wait until the conclusion of the 2019 June Draft.
The Angels had the draft pick before and they said they would have taken Trout with that pick if that was the only one they had
One of the most hysterical comments I’ve ever read.
QO was designed to compensate teams losing good players and to create an added cost beyond cash to signing the best players available.
It is mostly working fine in both cases. Tweak it if you want.
It’s not really affecting any players too much; it’s just being used as a crutch by good players to complain they’re not getting paid like great players. We saw it with Grandal; long term contract figures weren’t reported for Keuchel or Kimbrel but they probably faced the same situation.
How is it hysterical when it’s accurate? The Astros aren’t a small market team who used the QO as a way to remain competitive with the loss of Keuchel. They used it to suppress his market with hopes he’d accept and comeback on a sweetheart deal. Naturally he turned it down because he knew he was worth more than the QO, but he essentially lost any and all leverage in FA until June because now he comes with an additional cost to every other team outside of the Astros. It’s not as if Houston didn’t have the cash to offer him fair market either because they just took on Greinke’s deal.
How exactly isn’t that affecting the players that much?
Keuchel’s biggest deterrent to a deal was himself. In February any number of teams would’ve happily given him 60MM but he wanted 100. Want to blame that on the QO? It was the same problem for Kimbrel. He was asking for 100 and the market was only paying 60.
Grandal? Offered 56 from the Mets. Turned it down then his market dried up. AJ Pollock had a QO, he didn’t overshoot his market and he got a deal. A 56 million dollar deal. Those other 3 decided they didn’t want to play it that way. They got a hell of a lot less. I’m sure Keuchel is pissed off. He should be at his agent and most importantly himself. The system is an easy scapegoat but misreading his market was the largest factor.
I can almost guarantee you that DK would’ve been an Angel on a long term deal if he would’ve had reasonable demands from the beginning. Same thing with Moose the year prior. Had he accepted the 3/45 they offered this becomes way less of a story. But they didn’t.
They’re hoping front offices continue to handicap themselves with large deals to 30 somethings. If you want to get more money for the players; do it for the younger ones. A system that “works” for the players as long as it overpays older players is one that was always going to fail. Why would you put yourself at that competitive disadvantage? Not many teams want to be left with the dead money a team like the Red Sox has on it right now.
Players have to accept that fate. They also need to realize where they need to argue for more money to go. It sure isn’t to the past prime guys.
I don’t see what’s wrong with players valuing themselves at top dollar. It’s nearly universally standard negotiating practice to ask for more than you really expect, hoping to settle for better than the minimum offers as a result. That’s been true for most FA in baseball and most other fields.
I still think the Q.O. 100% penalizes strong FA and exists to protect weaker FA but its rarely utilized that way.
When Neil Walker, Matt Wieters, Colby Rasmus, etc. accepted the Q.O. it was precisely because people agreed they were worth more than a few million for their next season as a F.A. but their long term roll and value were unclear, so the Q.O. provided the player that sweet sweet F.A. level income for the season, allowed the team to avoid any rushed albatross deal or to lock a player into an under valued contract they’d grow to resent.
But it’s not used like that.
Seems to me, the best way to fix this is to automatically saddle the best players with draft pick compensation or to eliminate the ‘saddling’ portion and just re-jigger the draft picks based on end of year/end of contract data….
Exactly! Misreading the market was the problem.
There’s nothing wrong with going in high. But if you’r asking for $500 and no team will even call you back; you need to take a shot of reality. When Keuchel or Kimbrel were asking for 100 million dollars no teams even wanted to talk because it was an irrational number.
And if you want to go purely theoretical when you aim high on a negotiation there’s always the chance that the other party walks. Teams have proven that they’ll go elsewhere if you’re not a top of the market FA. Keuchel was not that. At some point you have to face the reality of what you are. Should’ve been a hell of a lot sooner than June.
Players Association has been beat badly by the owners representation. Why keep Tony Clark at the top. Players agreed to QA, quit whining. You and your leadership is weak, deal with it. LOL.
And I don’t know how the players will win the next CBAwhen the owners can parade around the Padres as a perfect example for proving why big money deals don’t equal wins.
He’s cost himself a pot of money from his underwhelming performances this postseason. They should use the money going to Keuchel, Teheran, Markakis and Flowers which is around 32 mil if they decline the options and make a run after Gerrit Cole.
Seriously? Keuchel allowing 4 runs in 8 innings versus the Cardinals this postseason is going to cost him a ” pot of money”. Those are not quite Yu Darvish numbers from the 2017 World Series when the then Dodgers pitcher still managed to net a 6 yrs/$126M FA deal from the Cubs that offseason at a similar age.
Now go on and tell us all how much better Darvish was than Keuchel because of advanced analytics. I’ll take Keuchel and his impressive career regular season numbers pitching half of his games in a HR haven ballpark in Houston, his postseason resume, his 3 Gold Gloves and 2015 Cy Young Award over what Darvish has accomplished in his time with the Rangers, Dodgers and Cubs. I’ll also take Keuchel with his below average velocity and ground balls and you can have Yu with his elite stuff and strikeouts.
Both pitchers have had some physical issues but at least Keuchel hasn’t been a mental basket case during his career. Darvish was often afraid to pitch for the Cubs because of minor issues while Keuchel was wanting to take the ball as an Astro with more serious back and arm problems. I’ll take the warrior with less stuff and you can have the mental midget with the great arm. I’ll take the pitcher and you can have the thrower.
The 2 largest reasons for Keuchel’s time on the market last offseason were unrealistic expectations for contract length, and unrealistic expectations of value.
The guy wanted to get paid as a top 5 starter in baseball, something he unequivocally was, and is, not.
If Keuchel tempers his expectations realistically, then it should be an easy trip. Gone are the days when your new team pays you for what you did for the other guy. These days they look at what you are likely to give them, and thats all you’re paid for.
So, if keuchel is viewed as a decent mid-rotation arm, one that may or may not provide much value in the postseason, then that is how he deserves to be paid. Don’t like it? Take another short term deal to prove you self to be something other than what your results show you to be.
You forgot that his agent is well known for dragging negotiations out.
True enough regarding Scott Boras who tends to drag things out with or without a QO attached to his clients. Fact is, Yu Darvish didn’t sign his FA contract with the Cubs until February 13th of 2018 and part of this was because he was ineligible for a QO due to his prior mid-summer trade from the Rangers to the Dodgers. If that trade didn’t go down Darvish would have been tagged with a QO by Texas and might have found himself in a similar situation to that of Keuchel and Kimbrel from last offseason, waiting until the conclusion of the June Draft to accept a pro-rated one year deal before entering the following FA class where he couldn’t be tagged again.
Flowers, Markakis & Teheran will be back in 2020.
Everytime Flowers is in the game or comes in the pitchers core suddenly begins to forget everything its learned. Shows how much we need a more dependable option at catchers. Will not be a true contender if they continue to nickel and dime their way without making a big splash. Shea Langaliers wont be ready for another 2 seasons. Go after like Joey Bart or someone. What sucks is I’m afraid that flowers and teheran will be back.
Agree on Flowers and Markakis. But the only way I see Teheran coming back is if he goes to FA and signs back with the Braves for less money. No way do I see them picking up that $12M option. They can get a much better #5 starter for less than that.
name 1.
name a starter that has thrown an average of 30 starts or 175 innings of sub 4.5 ERA for 7 years in a row.
I’m not knocking Julio or his past stats. But that’s all they are, past stats. His roster spot on this contending roster wont be and shouldn’t be dictated by his stats from 5 1/2 years ago. His roster spot is in trouble during the upcoming offseason not only by his expensive option but the starting pitching that AA will acquire here in the coming months. I expect he will pick up 2 starting pitchers. Personally I hope for Gerrit Cole and Zack Wheeler. Wont happen but can you imagine what would happen with Wheeler if Gerrit got to critique him for 3 seasons. Oh boy
I say that AA will grab 2 starting pitchers because after this season I like Keuchel as well but I feel Wheeler is a better cheaper younger option. I believe he is younger yeah?
I would rather have Julio than Keuchel next year. Flowers is signed for next year already. McCann I think will be back for the same 2 million. What other catchers are out there that the Braves could get? I don’t think there is, that would be much better than the Braves have.
I’m not sure what he thinks his current value is. It sounds like he still thinks of himself as a top of the rotational arm. If that’s the case, he may be in for a rude awaking which he will blame on the teams. He’s already set up the narrative to reflect that.
No one wants to sign a whiner to a big-money deal.
White Sox could use him. 2/20 no more
I think the White Sox would place a little more value than 2/20 on a Mark Buehrle ‘clone’. In hindsight, they should have signed Buehrle to one more contract extension and let him retire as a White Sox rather than extend a younger southpaw with better velocity and stuff in John Danks who wound up retiring prematurely due to insurmountable shoulder problems.
It was clear at the time that the front office was signing one or the other but not both. Much of that was on owner Jerry Reinsdorf but if they could do it over again the f.o. would have chosen the other route. Danks had proven he was a pretty decent pitcher early on in his career as he was approaching free agency for the first time in 2012, capping that off with his famous gutty performance in the 2008 “blackout” game versus the Twins to decide the NL Central title.
Buehrle was also facing free agency for the second time as a White Sox following the 2011 season. He was a fan favorite on the Southside of Chicago his entire career as an over-achieving 38th round draft pick who possessed a ‘heater’ in the upper 80’s but dependably took the ball for every start, threw 200+ innings annually, tossed 2 no-hitters (one a perfect game), won multiple Gold Glove Awards and was a major face of the 2005 World Series championship team. For me he epitomized the blue collar working class persona of the typical White Sox fan and showed it with a pitching style that had him consistently working deep into games with a minimal amount of pitches and in record setting time, something that rubbed off on future ace Chris Sale. If all MLB pitchers worked liked that in this era there would be zero talk of time clocks and less concern over 3+ hour ballgames.
* AL Central title.
That’s tiny monies. He’s useful at that price.
If he wanted top dollar and to pitch for a contender, hecshould have accepted the QO.
I desperately want the Braves to resign him. But I know for that to happen it will have to be a multi year deal for money we simply won’t pay. Even if it is reasonable to pay him that amt Braves likely won’t go for it.
Plus, this postseason just goes to prove that what I’ve been begging for since the end of last year is to dramatically improve our bullpen. That’s what needs to happen… step 1 improve bullpen, step two find a way to get both Donaldson and Dallas back on reasonable multi year deals. Step 1.2 drop luke Jackson
Resign who Kuechel ???
No way get him outta town
Bring in MadBum & let him teach these young pitchers a bulldog mentality
After this series I am done with Kuechel
8 IP are you kidding me
Na, you don’t judge a guy based on a postseason showing. He easily could have went more in game 1. He’s been solid all year. For the right price, I’d take him alllllll daaayyyyyy long. I’m simply saying his price will be too high, and even if it’s reasonable, I’d be surprised if the Braves go for him. I’m sorta expecting to see the Braves let Tehran walk this offseason. We could easily have 2 rotations spots to fill… would love getting kuechel and Bum, but I don’t see us spending that kind of money. But I can dream right 🙂
This is correct. I’ve seen so many fans critical of Keuchel over the length of his postseason starts, which really isn’t entirely in his control. He pitched a solid game in the first game of the series, and really could’ve gone longer. What’s he supposed to do though when Snit says he’s done? He can’t exactly say, “Nah, I’m staying in, you go worry about tomorrow’s line up.” Game 4, mostly the same deal. He had a rough first inning, but then he settled in.
Right and game 4 is on short rest… it’s not uncommon for pitchers to struggle in that situation. I’m frustrated as a fan the postseason is appearing to be the same old same old, but we do have something good happening and clearly we are a better team this year than last year. If our vets simply played up to their norm, we storm roll this 1st series.
The QO is a distraction that exceeds its real-market impact for the vast majority of players. The Union can’t and shouldn’t be accepting minor fine-tunes to it in return for major concessions on other issues–which is what happened last time when negotiating the present CBA. As for Keuchel himself, he’s probably worth a multi-year deal as a #3, but he’s no longer an ace and he’s going to need to accept that. There’s nothing wrong with being a #3 (or a #4 in an especially strong rotation).
Yes. On the Southside of Chicago Dallas Keuchel would be an immediate #2 behind Lucas Giolito on a White Sox team that is looking to compete in the AL Central in 2020 after a 3-year rebuild. They can use a crafty veteran southpaw presence in a rotation that features mostly young right-handed power arms. He can fill a similar role for the White Sox in 2020 that Jon Lester did for the Cubs heading into the 2015 season when the Northsiders were also wrapping up a lengthy rebuild and looking to compete in the NL Central.
Its not that teams undervalued Dallas Keuchel; Dallas Keuchel has overvalued Dallas Keuchel. “The Market” has always been what someone will pay not what your greedy agent says it is.
Clearly that is not true. No doubt Keuchel and Boras misread his FA market value but the QO tag also played into this equation. It takes two to tango and in the case of Keuchel and Kimbrel both factors played into their market value. Chances are neither pitcher would have had to wait until the conclusion of the subsequent June Draft and settle on a pro-rated one year contract if they were not saddled with their QO’s. Each would have likely settled on a multi-year deal or accepted a higher AAV ‘pillow’ contract well before opening day.
The Braves have some holes to fill in the off season, & over 85 million to spend. Here’s how I spend it
Donaldson- 2 years 50 million w/ vesting option for 25
Alex Wood- 2 years 20 million
Darren O’Day- 1 year 4 million
Trade for Sterling Marte- Drew Waters & Bryse Wilson.
Find a 2nd Catcher. They have to get more consistent production & better throwing from
The catcher.
Who is the first catcher?
If you were the Braves GM, I’d be on here complaining that you should be fired. Lol. Seriously though, I’m all for re-signing Donaldson, regardless of the cost, so long as it for 3 years or less. I wouldn’t even mind seeing O’Day back, but I can’t see it happening on a 4 million dollar deal. Wood is a complete waste of resources though because he’s never healthy, and mid-rotation pitching isn’t really a need. I’d sooner they spend money on a guy like Will Smith for the pen because another lefty would be useful to go with Newk, Greene and Melancon. I’m also not trading Waters for Marte when Waters in all likelihood ends up as good, or possibly better; and I’m certainly not throwing in Wilson. Outfield options are just too plentiful to surrender that package when the Braves really just need a bridge. Regardless of if either of us like it or not, I think they’re going to bring back Kakes, anyway. I think the plan all along has been for him to be that bridge, and the option was just protection in case he completely fell off a cliff.
The fun of trade rumors is acting like GM’s and have in depth conversations about your ideas. That said, I don’t exactly love your acting gm ideas lol. 50 mil for Donaldson is too much for 2 years. We over paid him this year because it was a 1 year deal. If we go for a 2 year deal it would be less than 23 mil a year (current contract). I’d suggest 2-3 years somewhere in the ballpark of 16-20 mil a year.
Then ur Marte suggestion is absolutely insane. No way you trade Waters for him. Hey look, currently in the playoffs, it’s mostly our youth that’s producing and has been productive all year. Waters looks legit and we are on an amazing path to legitimately build a playoff contenting team for years to come with our youth. Somethings right there at the moment, so don’t mess with that.
Here we go again with the so-called Braves fans wanting to make trades that make no-sense. Donaldson coming back I can see, maybe 3 yrs. 60-70 million. Alex Wood, No. O’Day Yes. Starling Marte NO-WAY, 1st. where would he play? especially for Waters and Wilson. Markakis will be back, Ender, Acuna, Riley either in the OF or at 3rd. Can see Duval coming back if no-one else signs him, but they will. McCann I think will be back, why wouldn’t he want to come back? Braves have not traded the good young prospects off so-far, lets not now. Keuchel GONE hopefully. I wouldn’t pick Julio’s op. up if they can sign a Bumgardner for 12-15 for 1 or 2 years. Don’t really need a starting pitcher.
Some of these complaints are a joke. As a RS fan, I appreciate Kimbrel. But he clearly was not in his prime when he left the RS. He had a 4.5 BB/9, with another 10/8 K/W in the playoffs, and was kind of moved out of the closer role. But he wanted more money than Chapman, who was two years younger when he was a FA, and honestly a step above Kimbrel.
Kimbrel was asking for twice what he was worth. I understand starting high, but that’s like asking $600k for a $300k house. No one come knocking. He should’ve started at $80M/5, and if he ‘settled’ for $6M/4, he’d be lucky.
And I wish the writers (not this one) would not be so obvious in chossing the players’ side. Last year, one of the writers said there were 200 unsigned free agents. It wasn’t remotely close, and one of the other writers, to his credit, pointed that out. And then they’d point to some 38 year old journeymen, with formerly AS pedigrees, and wonder why they weren’t getting big offers.
I’ve often thought similar about the media’s jumping in the players side so often. I think they feel they have to or risk losing there “insiders” or access to interviews and information. In other words… there own needs and greed
DK looking more like a 4-5 starter in the playoffs than a 1-2. Braves brought him on board specifically for this point in the season. Value is dropping by the start.
He’s right about the QO system being ridiculous but he definitely overvalued himself. He’s not an ace but wants to be paid like one. He screwed himself there.
Agent – gets paid on commission. He should have with a non playoff team.
Idosteroids is right “value is dropping “ off the table
Players union agreed to it…live with it. Something to negotiate in the future…but not now. No whining.
It amazes me how many fans on here are fine with the QO system. I’m not always universally pro-player because there are leagues like the NBA where players have too much power; but in baseball, the players have too little in this case. The QO was designed for the bottom 1/3rd of the teams market-wise that maybe can’t pay the freight on a star to have a means to remain competitive. The irony is those teams often use it the least because they still can’t afford the freight. Large market teams use it more as a crutch to suppress a player’s market, and coerce them into lesser deals.
Care to back that up with numbers? How many QO rejetting players resign with original teams?
80 QOs. 6 accepted. Only 18 reject and sign with same team. 7 of those are 1 year pillow deals.
So, based on the numbers, if any wage depression is happening, it’s pretty clearly to the benefit of OTHER teams, not those issuing the QO.
Try again.
It’s pretty simple. No draft compensation other than a sandwich pick for any FA receiving a QO over the age of 30 or 31. Basically you handcuff a guy seeking a deal elsewhere. The QO isnt chump change but it’s a 1 year deal. Now maybe you change the QO to a 2 year deal? Fewer teams may use it.
Undervalued him!!??
LOL!
The bottom line is that the players signed a bad deal the last time. They were very poorly represented. One big problem they have in negotiating a contract, though, is that they’re much more visible and well-known than the owners. The average fan earns less than $100K per year, and can’t understand the business side of things, do the players are always the ones pressured to cave. If I were representing them, that wouldn’t happen.
All that talk of the “regular fan seeing what’s really going on” is undermined by the fact this seems to keep happening to Boras clients. He wasn’t black balled, he felt he was worth more. Sure the pick weighted that down but teams are also getting a little more wise paying for decline years. That the angels made an offer is no surprise because they are bad at that. And Boras can’t always count on the Nats or Tigers to throw around their money.
Here’s the deal. Minimum salaries for the first 3 years of $1.0, $2.5, and $4.0. Arbitration for year 4, and then free agency with no QOs. Players get paid more early in their careers, get to free agency sooner, and aren’t saddled with the QO. Owners get younger free agents who haven’t started to decline, making a long-term deal more tenable. Everybody wins. (a payroll floor/ceiling would be nice too, but this would work, IMO)
Kevin wins the internet today! I’ve thought the same thing. Only give a club 4 years of control instead of 6. With less PEDs in the game, players are seldom great and worth top money after 34 years old. Younger free agents, and players get paid more in the short time they are in the league. I still like the soft cap since I’m a Dodger fan. But this is also the 2nd year the Dodgers have stayed under the line because even our owners didn’t want to pay 60% tax. And they have also heavily invested in young controlable talent. They let Grandal walk, passed on Harper and Machado and still won 106 games. I think there is a happy medium somewhere.
Kevin, that is fair. I hear some fans make the argument that teams don’t want to pay more for veterans in their declining years, which isn’t ludicrous. The problem there though is these guys get so short-changed during their “peak” years, and teams will even play the service time game to exploit that a little bit more. The clubs almost always win on every side unless you’re dealing with a transcendent talent like Mike Trout.
Well, the thing is that guys like Mike Trout are so rare you can basically just throw that out of the equation.
The average 1st round pick in the NBA makes around $8 million during their first 3 years in the league, 2 years of which are guaranteed. Baseball players get screwed in comparison. In the sense of fairness, though, there is development time for baseball players compared to 1st round NBA picks, BUT baseball players also play games as professionals where a profit (I assume) is made by the minor league teams for which they toil, which I think negates the development time argument to a large extent.
Keuchel isn’t an Ace anymore. His FA tour this offseason should be interesting again. Potential suitors: ATL, STL, PHI, SD.. I think SD will have the motivation to go for broke and compete. My prediction is they land Cole & Keuchel and trade for Kluber to have a 3- headed monster rotation and that’s also including Paddock
*Paddack