Coming off their fifth straight non-playoff season and their fourth consecutive sub-.500 campaign, the Angels were expected to be one of the majors’ most active teams this winter. They haven’t disappointed.
Not only did the Angels sign free agency’s No. 1 position player – former Nationals third baseman Anthony Rendon – to a seven-year, $245MM contract, but they’ve also strengthened their much-maligned starting rotation. Granted, the Angels’ acquisitions of ex-Oriole Dylan Bundy and former Brave Julio Teheran haven’t bowled anyone over, but at least the two of them have shown themselves to be durable, major league-caliber starters in recent years. That’s more than can be said for the majority of starters the Angels have run out over the past couple seasons.
With Rendon in the mix, an Angels position player group that finished 2019 middle of the pack in fWAR (16th) and runs scored (17th) suddenly looks imposing. Rendon and three-time AL MVP-winning center fielder Mike Trout could be the best one-two punch in baseball. Beyond them, there’s shortstop Andrelton Simmons, designated hitter Shohei Ohtani, left fielder Justin Upton and second baseman David Fletcher. Brian Goodwin’s the team’s starting right fielder for the moment, but his days at the top could be numbered with super-prospect Jo Adell not far from making an impact in the bigs.
While the Angels clearly have a legitimate offensive core, there are concerns, namely at catcher – which they need to address before the offseason’s out – as well as at first base. Unfortunately for the Angels, they could be stuck with a deteriorating Albert Pujols (he of the bloated $29MM salary) playing a key first base role.
Meanwhile, even with Bundy and Teheran in the mix, the Angels’ rotation still appears to need work. Neither one of those right-handers is a world-beater. Ohtani, a fellow righty, has front-end ability, but he only threw about 50 innings in 2018 before Tommy John surgery kept him off a mound last season. Like Ohtani, Andrew Heaney, Griffin Canning and Patrick Sandoval – although promising – haven’t really established themselves so far. Another problem for the Angels: They don’t seem likely to land a bona fide front-end type before the season, as Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg and Zack Wheeler are gone from free agency, and nobody’s aggressively shopping a No. 1 or 2 starter via trade.
Elsewhere, there’s a case the Angels need to better their bullpen, which finished last season in mediocre territory. Aside from claiming righty Mike Mayers from the Cardinals last month, they haven’t done much to address that area. Hansel Robles, Ty Buttrey, Noe Ramirez and Cam Bedrosian will all be back, however, and the Halos should get a full year from Keynan Middleton after he missed most of 2019 while recovering from Tommy John surgery.
It’s hard to argue that the Angels haven’t taken significant steps forward this offseason. Plus, the two front-runners in the AL West – the Astros and Athletics – have been pretty quiet since last season ended. That said, after going 72-90 and finishing 35 games back of the Astros and 25 behind the A’s in 2019, the Halos still look as if they have more ground to make up if they’re going to be any better than a third-place team in 2020. With $20-some million left in spending room before they reach the first level of the luxury tax, the Angels just might make another splash or two before the offseason’s out. Right now, though, how many games do you expect the Joe Maddon-led club to win next year?
(Poll link for app users)
So is this just a white Sox and Angels site now?
If they can trade for a solid SP or two then I can see them making the playoffs. They should be willing to trade any prospect besides Adell.
Already got rid of their #1 prospect just to shed a little bit of cash. Unless they take on Cash like price, they finish 4th in their division.
he was far from a #1, troll!
Troll? Their 2019 first round pick idiot. Anyone who read it knew what I meant. Obvious Jo Adell is their #1. Smh
You said #1 prospect and you call him a name?
Wilson wasn’t close to Adell or Marsh or Adams. He was their 4th best prospect.
I’m not happy about that, but accuracy is important.
dumdum!
And by “Just shedding a little bit of cash” they were able to sign Rendon. Let’s see, how many GMs would be willing to give up Will Wilson and Cozart to get Rendon back? I’m guessing every GM with a pulse would make that trade.
@antibelt Wilson was the first round pick of the Angels in the 2019 draft. He was far from the Angels best prospect. You may have confused Angels #1 pick with #1 prospect. The Angels farm system was barren for years. They actually have some decent drafts for late. It is far from the best farm system but at least it is no longer the worst.
What’s intriguing is the number of pitchers they have drafted recently. Between the 2018 and 2019 drafts, they drafted 57 pitchers. Not all signed, of course, but they are seriously trying to address the lack of pitching in their system in the long term. They also appear to be doing pretty decent in signing very young arms with international signing money.
None of this helps for 2020, but it does give some long term hope.
#1 prospect. That’s funny. Can always tell the guys that are just here to troll and have no idea what they are talking about.
Mmmehh
I buy into the research showing all roster improvement is weighed equally (e.g. upgrading a 3 WAR 3B to a 5 WAR 3B is just as valuable as upgrading a 0.5 WAR SP to a 2.5 WAR SP), I’m all-in on Andrew Heaney, I believe that Ohtani can be elite on both sides of the ball, I think Bundy has untapped potential, at this point I buy Tehran’s ability to beat ERA estimators, I like Canning and Sandoval more than the consensus it seems, I think Simba’s unparalleled defense makes him one of the more underrated players in the League, and Adell could be a difference-maker from day 1, and I still only see this as an 85-89 win team.
Their rotation just has so many injury concerns. If they put together a healthy year they’d be fine but at this point it’s not practical to expect this. Getting a Boyd or Musgrove type really seems necessary for them to cover innings with above replacement level players. Either that or they do something like a a Wood/McCullers which is more high variance but might work.
yeah all those players may be good, but most dealt with injuries last year and very well could again this year.
since i had a surgery to fix my knees i will have more every year?
Yo man, we are big angel defenders on here. Past injuries certainly increase the odds of future. That said the oppisite is true too (bundy, Tehran and sando). In almost all cases the Angels starting rotation will be less taxed an desperate which should in theory create less injured pitchers all around.
Not if they can’t reverse the 27 losses against the Astros and A’s they won’t.
@rocky
The Angels replace 4-6 SP that combined for around -5 WAR in 2019 with 3 SP that can add +3-7 combined WAR in 2020. 3-7 WAR between 3 players isn’t a whole lot but when you look at last year and see all the -0.9, -0.5, -1.0…WAR from 4-6 guys…it’s a noticeable improvement.
Plus they added some offense/defense with Rendon, will should have Simmons and Upton healthy & back for 150 or so games.
Catcher has yet to be improved.
Castro? Chiniros? Contreras? Any of those dudes would be an improvement over 2019 Catchers.
They still have trade options for SP.
Price, Boyd, Ray, some others.
Looking at the A’s…
It’s not like the A’s have 4 SP that’ll start 30+ and go 200ip each. Luzardo, Manaea, Puk are excellent but untested prospects, some returning from injuries, I think all played limited innings in 2019.
Looking at the Astros…
They lost an Ace in Cole and a #5 in Miley. Verlander and Grienke are a year older and could continue dominating or have declining years. The offense is still elite but there is talk that Correa could be traded…remains to be seen if that actually happens and what they get back. I doubt they win 100+ this year, my guess is 95-98.
Rangers…
The pitchers are solid but who really expects the holdovers to perform at the same high level as 2019? I don’t. They really need some offense. If they get a 3B and OF/DH they could make noise.
Mariners…
There’s always 2022. 🙂
That’s happened time and again throughout MLB history without teams having to make major additions on paper and without the defending teams losing much. Every season is different.
More dynamic offense. Pitching is only slightly better. If they do nothing else, 84 wins. If they trade for an ace-caliber starter, they can get to 90 wins.
What? They added a 6 war 3b at their historically worst postion, get a full season of a 5 war ss, get ohtani (another 5) . This is a 90 win team that is one player or major player dev step forward from being better than veryone thinks.
i don’t think trolls are capable of thinking.
So Jeff is a troll because he said the Angels are an 84 win team? He’s pretty spot on, and so is the author of this article when he said “the Halos still look as if they have more ground to make up if they’re going to be any better than a third-place team in 2020.” He must be a troll too.
No, Ryan, but in a shocking turn of events, you are, in fact, there real troll here.
clepto back after several days for another hit as a troll. Ironically by calling someone else a troll. Still no sign in sight of a substantive baseball comment. Just personal attacks.
Unfortunately, team WAR pretty much never equals that number of wins added to the 52-110 expected record of “replacement level” players like it’s supposed to.
To be realistic, add about 3/4 of what your WAR is to the 52 wins and you’re probably closer.
To be realistic… discounting a team WAR 25% would be extremely inaccurate.
Which puts the Angels at 86-87 wins. Which is what Vegas has them at. We are still a 3rd place team hoping for a step up from a few players to make a run at the WC.
In my opinion, their worst position was about -3 WAR, and they replaced that guy with a guy who should be somewhere around +3 to +4 WAR.
(I’m talking about Brad Ausmus being replaced by Joe Maddon.)
Doug White might have been -1 to -2 WAR also. Don’t know what Mickey Callaway will be, but I’d bet he’ll be a much better pitching coach.
This! ^^
Maddon and his coaches will be huge improvement over Ausmus and his coaches. Easily 5 wins better! No question!
In 2015 and 2016, Royals were picked to finish close to last place before the season began! A lot can happen. Rendon can not be as good in the Al West, pitching is still pathetic, and the West is still extremely good. WAR is not an end all for how a team is going to fair.
On course not, team WAR* should probably have a footnote like…
(*margin of error is +/-6 or +/-10)
there are so many variables.
Royals had a half dozen guys over perform their career bests. You are assuming all Angels will underperform theirs.
Our pitching is 6 wins better with 2 guys that throw 350 innings combined per season. A huge improvement.
The Astros are not as good as last season and lost 66 starts and 10 WAR from their starting rotation. They are still a 96-97 win team, but not the 107 win juggernaut we saw last season. .The A’s have done nothing to improve and will be relying on rookies and often injured pitchers. The Rangers are still bad. The Mariners are going to be closer to 100 losses than 100 wins.
End all be all.
Fare. To fare is to perform in a specific way.
Perhaps it is too much to expect to overcome so many deficits in one off season, but it seems to me that Rendon is a luxury item and the team would have been better served to get an top of the rotation starter AND they still need a catcher. The White Sox seemed to be able do what the Halos have not this off season, that is become a contender.
I agree with what you’re saying. It seems like Moreno has learned nothing from the Hamilton or Pujols contracts which translated to no WS appearances. Stop concentrating LARGE chunks of payroll on 2 or 3 players and surrounding them with an at or below replacement level roster. The Angels will float around .500 until they commit to genuine roster building.
Getting the #1 position player available, who plays a position where you’ve been pathetically weak for well over a decade, is the exact opposite of a luxury item.
Easier to find a competent 3B than a top of the rotation starter and decent catcher so from that perspective yeah 3B was an luxury item. They still have what have been described “innings eaters” these are not front line pitchers. The rest of what they have are middling or back of the end starters. They will be better, but not serious WS contenders this year unless they make more moves.
“Excellent” and “competent” are not the same thing. Not even close. And of course, Angels third basemen haven’t even been competent for most of the last 15 years. Rendon was not even remotely a “luxury”.
The White Sox play in the weak Central. The Angels are in the West where Houston has dominated and Oakland is coming off two 97 win seasons. That is a pretty big difference, a lot can happen over a 162 games.
We improved by 6 wins and added two 160-180 IP starters to our rotation. How much more would Cole have improved the team by?
Keep in mind that if we get Cole on the 8 year $36 million AAV we offered, we would not have gotten Rendon.
Rendon is a 3 win improvement at 3B and allows us to move last seasons 3B to 2B, his natural position and improve by 3 wins there.
We do still need a catcher, but there are still several good ones on the FA market.
The White Sox added Grandal who is a 3 win improvement at catcher, Kuechel who is a marginal improvement over Nova in the rotation, and Encarnacion. Not sure he is actually an upgrade, but I will be generous and say that he is one win better at DH. .
I think Bundy will thrive away B-More. I think he could rebound like Arreita did after his trade away from O’s. Overall Angels had solid off season but not a playoff roster(currently)
they’re at best just over .500 in that division with no extra rotation help. 85 is a reasonable ceiling.
86.5 wins is the current over under.
Hou, Oak, LA, Tex, Sea
Texas ahead of LAA, texas has good pitchers.
They are the antithesis of the Angels in terms of pitching/offense. I see them
battling it out for 3rd place. So really three tiers in that division. Oak/Hou LAA/Tex then SEA.
Rangers over under is 77.5 wins. Mariners 66.5 wins. Angels 86.5 wins.
No pitching, new manager, Rendon… meh, 78 wins.
no catcher or any really bullpen threats
As a Rangers fan I put 76-79, non-biased I put 76-79, if I were an Angel fan… 76-79. So to be clear, 76-79. They have no pitching, and although they have a fine offense, some pieces weigh them down like Upton and Pujols. At this point I feel like they are just waiting for Adell to come up.
How exactly does upton weight them down? 31 years old coming off an injuries. Prior had an ops+ of 130 for 3 consecutive seasons? Sounds like a ranger fan for sure. How is choo working out?
For one I meant contract wise, as Upton is earning around 20 million over the next 3 seasons. Secondly, Choo’s contract runs out this next year, he has been a mentor, and he has been the most consistent hitter in the lineup over the past 6 years or so. He always hits leadoff nicely, and he backs that up with a high OBP. So even though people think you can take jabs at the rangers for Choo, it isn’t a good argument (like saying coors field effect). And in fact I hope Upton ages well, but I meant that his contract is weighing down the Angels, not his gameplay.
Upton will rebound to the tune of…
25Hr, .260-270 avg, 90runs, 90-100rbi
His contract isn’t weighing them down.
And you’re right. Already bad defense on the wrong side of 30 and coming off patella tendinitis surgery, he’s still due huge money for 3 years.
Really, Goodwin in left, a stopgap in right until Adell, and the Angels get nearly identical WAR while saving $20 million.
Rangers dramatically improved their rotation but their offense is poor. 76-79 wins for them is more accurate
5Tool re: your Upton projection
That doesn’t look like a $20MM value.
@Mo
No? If Upton returns to 3-5WAR production is that not over $20m value? I think so. If not, please tell me what $20m value is.
5Tool
Let me repeat your numbers for Upton:
25Hr, .260-270 avg, 90runs, 90-100rbi
No that doesn’t look like $20MM
Fangraphs calculated 1 WAR to cost $8 million in 2017. That stat-line, well in-line with Upton’s career numbers, looks like likely to break the threshold and create $20+ million of value.
@Mo
Take a minute and look at Upton’s stats. There are a few seasons that come very close the stats I posted and show him with a 3-5WAR. Anything over ~2.5 WAR is basically giving them value for that salary.
yup those numbers sure fit the pink rangers!
Really? Complaining about Upton? I’d be more concerned with the likes of Odor.
Oh yes Odor sucks, and all rangers fans want him gone too.
which odor? texux cow dung or leaking chemical odor?
West Texas gas odor.
Odor greatest hit came courtesy of Juan Batista face. He hasn’t hit much since.
Again this biased website like to have people rag on the angels. I get there a tire fire but jesus man give then a break for awhile.
No thanks. lol
meh. Rangers arent even worth trash talking about lol.
They get what they’ve been earning with their moves.
Every year that goes by the odds get just that much better – will Trout end up a top-10 talent in history, but never have a shot at a ring? It’s pretty sad, I think they should hire dombrowski just to give the kid a shot.
The same guy that thinks the angels pitching staff is equal to the Yankees is calling other people biased.
Yes, but he also openly admits he is mindless, so I lean towards it all being an act that should not be taken seriously.
The website is clearly biased towards the east coast clearly all the articles hype up the east coast teams and make all move west coast make to be the worst. Last time i checked angels and yankees have same amount of chips last 20 years
Last 20 years the Yankees have more “chips”, lol
No one is this wrong all the time.
This isn’t a liberal arts college.
It’s a culinary arts college.
Their pitching staff is still horrendous and the Astros and A’s are both still far superior teams in their division. The Angels won’t win more than 80 games
Per fangraphs …Angels team WAR is slightly ahead of the A’s team WAR. They both trail Houston by about 11-13 WAR.
I’d hate to break it to you bud but team WAR doesn’t mean anything. The A’s were far better than the Angels last year and now they’ll get a full season out of Manaea and likely see Puk and Luzardo join the rotation full time. The A’s will finish around 15 games better than the Angels and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rangers finish in 3rd in the division
Yeah I know team WAR isn’t highly accurate. Too many variables…Things happen, players die, major injuries, etc.
If you think last seasons 72 wins is the norm you’re in for a shock. That being said I think the 2020 Angels win 87 to 90 games and I seriously doubt the A’s win 15 more than the Angels. I bet It’ll come down to the final week.
I can’t see any possible way the Angels win that many games. Ohtani probably won’t make more than 20 starts, the rest of the rotation is filled with 4s and 5s, and the bullpen is even worse than the rotation
If Ohtani pitches a once a week, like his Japan league schedule (say Sundays) he would have 26 starts followed by 8 Monday off days. So at maximum he should get 26 starts based on his Japan league scheduling. If the Angels are cautious, I would expect he might get 1 start off per month or -4-5 starts, leaving him starting 21-22 games. He will almost certainly be on a pitch limit of around 80-100 per game, that should allow him to get 5-7IP per game most starts. 125IP is a reasonable expectation. I’d argue Heaney, Bundy, Teheran are not 4s and 5s (more like 2,3,4s) but I’ll play along…If the “4s and 5s” can eat 170-200 innings each with ERA/FIP in the 4.0-4.5 range they should be in most games. The bullpen is better than you think you know…just over worked (openers and many 4-5th inning appearances) and other times just misused by Ausmus and staff.
I respect you being optimistic about your team but I just don’t see what you see
If WAR doesn’t mean anything then why are front offices using it? Why is ESPN using it? If you don’t understand WAR, just admit it. WAR lines up with overall performances, good or bad. MVP’s are often at or near the top in WAR. It needs fine tuning like any other stat. But it’s way more useful than just looking at OPS. Where does base running factor in? Defensive value? And so on.
I never said WAR doesn’t mean I said team WAR doesn’t mean anything. Also WAR itself can be misleading which is why it should not be used as the be all and end all stat. Simply comparing the rosters of the A’s and Angels will show you that the A’s have the far superior team
Arte has never invested in pitching. $144.5mil is towards position players, while $45mil is towards pitching. Someone send Arte the memo that reads: PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!
Because apparently, he missed that memo.
As for their current rotation, it’s pretty much Bundy, and Terhan. Ohtani will be limited this year. Heaney has never had a full/healthy season, Canning was good in the beginning, but hitters adapt and when they did his ERA blew up to the mid 4’s, and Sandoval was much worse.
Eppler seems content with their current rotation and now he’ll hope for a miracle.
But hey, they got Rendon *two unenthusiastic thumbs up*
Vernon Wells, Gary Mathews, Albert Pujols, Josh Hamilton.
No pitching…. EVER!
The definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Maybe the problem isn’t Eppler or any of their other incompetent GMs since Stowman, maybe the problem is Arte Moreno..A guy who cares more about putting butts in the seats than investing in a winning franchise.
Good luck, Trout
Yes, the problem is very clearly Arte. He has been the aggressor in all of those big name additions you listed, even at the objection of the then GM on a couple of them. He sees a flashy, hot bat and usually must have it.
The consistency in which his teams both over value a hot bat and undervalue pitching, regardless who the GM is, shows without doubt it is Arte micro-managing decisions.
Couple that with the odd self-imposed spending limits and you have yourself one horrible owner
Exactly. Well stated!
Actually…and not surprisingly, you are wrong.
Arte has invested in SP in the past. Colon won a CY in 2005 and was signed few years after Arte bought the Angels, Wilson was another SP signing 2011, he was rated #2 overall FA after Pujols and the top SP that offseason, but obviously his performance didn’t live up to the contract.
Heaney had a full season in 2018. 30starts, 180IP. They definitely need more seasons like that from him.
Ohtani will probably be on a pitch limit 90-100? pitches and start 1 game a week if they do the rumored Sunday start schedule. That should equate to 24-26 starts. That’s 24-26 games NOT started by Suarez, Sandoval, Dillon, etc. I’ll take it!
Canning was a rookie, had a late season injury but his trajectory should only go up.
Bundy and Teheran are not aces but if they pitch to their 3yr average stats, they will solidify and stabilize the rotation. They don’t need to be aces, just pitch into the 5th-6th-7th innings consistently and NOT be Cahill/Harvey. They can do that.
THIS!!!
“Arte has invested in pitching” then you throw one name out: CJ Wilson hahaha c’mon, man!
Ohtani: should
Canning: should
Not a lot of promises there, buddy.
Heaneys “full season” also involved a 4+ ERA.
And if Bundy lives up to his 3yr AVG, then we should expect another 4.75ERA season. Cool.
Terhan is the only addition that I like. Other than that, it’s a mediocre rotation. And again, Angel fans show their love for mediocrity.
So what we’re looking at here is: Hopefully Ohtani stays healthy. Hopefully Canning stays healthy and doesn’t produce another 5+ ERA. Hopefully Heaney has a full healthy season with 4+ ERA. Hopefully Bundy does what Bundy does… I guess. And Terhan to be Terhan.
Yup, it looks like another mediocre season for the Angels. One of the highest payrolls in baseball and they’ll finish 3rd again… because their owner is a billionaire who doesn’t know a thing about baseball and building a winning team. Not to mention his lack of zip code knowledge
I’ll make you a promise. If the Angels get 100+ starts from their 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th best starters, like they did in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 they wont have a solid rotation this year either.
If they get 120+ starts from their one through six starters, they will have a solid rotation. At least as solid as the 2011 Cardinals, 2013 Red Sox and 2015 Royals.
I hate the cliché PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!! It’s not insightful or accurate. Sure I’d rather have an ace, but Just over the last decade who were the aces of the 2011 Cardinals, 2013 Red Sox, 2015 Royals.
And by the way, Who was the last free agent pitcher to win the Cy Young award? A free agent picked up by the Angels. And Wilson was the two year ace of the Rangers team that went to back to back World Series. He had an ERA+ of 142 throse two years. The Angels don’t ignore free agent pitching.
Lol what?! Every team you named had solid pitching, bro! The Angels have dumpster dived for pitching for almost a decade! Ever since Weaver left. The angels don’t ignore pitching, but they ignore good pitching.
Solid pitching. No it’s now down to Solid Pitching Wins Championships. And you need to look at the starters for those teams again.
The last four years, the Angels have had one starting pitcher not go on the DL. Bet they are all capable of being solid.
Cardinals 2011:
Chris Carpenter 3.40 ERA
Jamie Garcia 3.50 ERA
Kyle Lohse 3.30 ERA
Edwin Jackson 3.50 ERA
All with 30+ starts
Red Sox 2013
John Lester 3.70 ERA
John Lackey 3.50 ERA
30+ starts
And lights out bullpen
Royals 2015
Volquez 3.50 ERA
Ventura 4ERA
Duffy 4ERA
Young 3.ERA
30+ starts
And the best bullpen in baseball
What have the Angels had recently? Exactly. Pitching wins championships.
OPS+ Cardinal Pitchers 108, 104, 109, 80, 104
OPS+ of Red Sox Pitchers. 110, 117, 90, 95.
OPS+ of Royals Pitchers. 118, 103, 70, 102. And who was their ace? Thirty Six year old Chris Young. Who after that had a 6.52 ERA for the rest of his career. Who was the king of the “dumpster dives”.
You don’t think the Angels are capable of that?
They still had pitching… regardless if the players regressed a few years later. And they still won a championship.
And if you think they Angels are incapable of that, then we completely disagree.
What did you call Tehran? His ERA+ last year was 119. You don’t consider him solid but would have been the ace of those staffs.
If the Angels get 120 starts from their 1 – 6 pitchers, they’ll top those marks.
Lol they’ve shown that they are incapable of just that. Which is why they lose every year. Terhan is their only starter capable of having a good season. Ohtani should be solid if he’s healthy. Again, it’s a bunch of “ifs”
The Angels need one more solid SP to have a shot at a WC or division. They also need help in the bulllen, which is another area that Arte overlooks. It’s the same bs with this owner and it’s old.
You think Teheran, who is the last Angel starter being drafted in expert fantasy baseball leagues is the only starter on the Angels capable of a good season?
I don’t know how to answer that.
Bartolo Colon, Kelvin Escobar, Paul Byrd, Jon Garland, Scott Kazmir, Joel Pineiro, Dan Haren, Zack Greinke (rental), and CJ Wilson were all either signed or acquired under Arte’s ownership. I could even be leaving out a couple. Not all of them panned out, but Arte still went out and got those arms. Plus, all of their starters that have gone down with major injuries during this decade, mainly from 2014 to now, have been young controllable starters. Richards, Shoemaker, Heaney, Skaggs, Tropeano, and Ohtani, if mostly healthy, would’ve given them one of the best young rotations in the Majors this whole time. The Angels have been set up very well to have good pitching for a long time. Unfortunately, they just happened to be a team that endured about as many career threatening injuries to their starting rotation as any organization could possibly have. No team would be able to overcome that. Because along with those injuries came having to pay those pitchers’ arbitration salaries for not pitching. That adds up. Now that most those arbitration salaries are off the books, they were finally able to go out and get some arms off the open market. So matter the circumstances, Arte Moreno has invested in pitching. A lot.
RyÅn W Krol
I agree with most of what you wrote. Dory in finding Nemo has a better memory than some baseball fans.
Ryan has a better memory than I. LOL
How good are the Angels?
Not good.
Imagine having an awful rotation, adding dylan bundy and Julio Tehran then thinking you’re a playoff team, lol.
I give the Rangers a better shot at a wild-card.
The Angels didn’t get an ace. But their staff isn’t that bad. They finally added someone to hit behind Trout.
Fantasy leagues are drafting and I’ve played in fantasy leagues with ex major league GMs, ex players who have jobs at MLB network and I can tell you fantasy experts are better at analyzing players future performances than the former.
Othani is getting picked before Luzardo. Heaney is getting picked before Manaea. Canning is getting picked before Puk. Teheran is getting picked before Fiers. The big difference is the PED guy who was never good until last year vs Bundy.
The Angels should be competitive, not for the division, but for a wild card.
The Angels were five games over 500 on July 24th and this team should be better than that team. Anyone who thinks the Angels went into the off-season as a team with 90 loss talent doesn’t have a clue.
LMAO
LYBAO!
You’re kidding. Ohtani vs. Luzardo I’ll give you, but the other 3 it isn’t even a question. Manaea wipes the floor with Heaney, healthy Puk with all 5 pitches makes Canning look like a Single A pitcher, Fiers spent 4 months last year being the best pitcher in baseball with one of the worst catchers in baseball and Montas even “with PED’s” has much better stuff with the addition of the splitter than Bundy.
The Angels have the better offense on paper, and even with the question of “how good are they really” the A’s rotation makes the Angels rotation look bad.
athleticsnchill, that’s how the experts are drafting them. This is for 2020. Not 2021. My point is these staffs are very comparable and here is why.
Ohtani vs Luzardo. They are both coming back from injuries, they are both tough to gauge. To me it’s a pick em. They will be effective the innings they pitch.
I.M.O. here is why they are taking Heaney. Manaea is not going to be more successful than Heaney when Heaney is striking out 11 per nine and Manaea is striking out 6. That’s what Manaea struck out per nine in 2018, 6 batters per nine. Manaea is going to have to massively increase his K rate.
Canning reached his innings limit last year. Puk is coming back from TJ surgery. Again, I’ll take Canning. Puk has huge upside, but he’s not going to pitch the innings Canning is likely going to pitch.
What people miss about Teheran is he throws 5 pitches. That’s why he always out performs his peripherals. He’s not great, but batters are not squaring him up either. I’ll take Teheran over Fiers. But really, it’s a pick em. .
Montas? I don’t know who he is. I know he had a negative WAR going into last year and he got busted for PEDs. I don’t know how anyone knows who he is. But he can be the difference maker.
Basitt is 31 years old with a lifetime 3.7 WAR. He’s not a difference maker.
I’ll set aside Ohtani v, Luzardo which is an impossible comparison to predict.
“Manaea is not going to be more successful than Heaney when Heaney is striking out 11 per nine and Manaea is striking out 6”
Manaea has been more successful than Heaney through literally every one of their concurrent seasons with a lower k/9 (way to compare Heaney’s top performance to Manaea’s floor). This comparison is actually a pretty perfect illustration as to why using Fantasy Baseball mock draft position as a real-life performance predictor is a mistake: they are two different games.
Heaney’s K rate is much more valuable in Fantasy Baseball where stats are converted to points, where a championship could come down to which team accumulated more Ks over the season. In real baseball, reducing a player’s performance/value to his K-Rate makes no sense.
“Canning reached his innings limit last year.”
Canning was shut down for the season while on the IL, after an MRI revealed a recurrence of the elbow inflammation that had caused an earlier IL trip.
“Puk is coming back from TJ surgery. ”
Puk missed 2018 while recovering from TJ. He pitched in 2019, including a late August call-up to the MLB. He’s already “come back” from TJ surgery.
“Puk has huge upside, but he’s not going to pitch the innings Canning is likely going to pitch.”
Impossible to say with Canning’s elbow still a question mark.
“Montas? I don’t know who he is.”
Always great when doing a side-by-side rundown.
“Basitt is 31 years old with a lifetime 3.7 WAR. He’s not a difference maker.”
Having a 6th/spot starter whose 2019 was better than literally every ’19 Angel starter isn’t a difference-maker now? If the Angels are going to go with the 6-man rotation, they should consider finding their own Chris Basitt.
Ontaria. I loved your post. So much better than simply sniping back.
To counter. Both teams need a sixth man. Both teams need to find their Bassitt. And I don’t think that’s going to be Bassitt.
Puk pitch 37 innings last year. Massive K rates, but struggled with control. Canning’s elbow is a question mark. He was shut down for inflammation. His last three outings pitched 17 innings struck out 17 and allowed 4 runs. I’ll take the elbow inflammation over TJ surgery. But it’s debatable. Puk has huge upside.
Manaea pitched 66 innings last year and I think it’s very debatable who pitched better in 2018. Heaney FIP 3.99 180 IP. Manaea FIP 4.36 160 IP. As far as upside, give me Heaney. However, again, I think it’s debatable.
We agree Ohtani vs Luzardo and Teheran vs Fiers is debatable.
The big difference in this Montas. Who all of a sudden found it the year he got caught taking PEDs.
For 2020 (not 2021), I don’t buy the hype of the A’s staff and I don’t buy the negativity of the Angels staff. After 2020 plays out, we are having a completely different conversation.
Puk pitched more than 37 innings last year, but MLB doesn’t track extended spring training innings or bullpen innings, and the organization has openly said they don’t expect an innings limit for him or Luzardo this year. Control is always going to be an issue for him, but with swing and miss stuff that nasty it doesn’t really matter, if he can keep it near the zone he’s going to induce whiffs. He also only used his fastball and slider when he was first called up, and saw drastic improvements as he reintroduced his curveball and his changeup. So you’ve got a 6’7 left handed pitcher with a plus-plus fastball, a plus slider and 2 average pitches in his changeup and curveball. That gives him the floor of a guy with pitchability if anything.
Manaea is actually similar to Puk in some ways. He was a high value prospect, and the injury that prompted his shoulder surgery at the end of 2018 sapped him of meaningful velocity throughout his career. So he stopped trying to throw and learned how to pitch. He keeps guys off balance, and even after missing most of 2019 he came back and his K/9 spiked to almost 10 strikeouts per 9 innings while he induced tons of soft contact. We’ll see if his velocity returns to his prospect days, although I doubt it, but even a marginal improvement gives you another tall lefty that throws across his body at 91-93mph with 2 other average pitches.
As for Montas there is an explanation for how he found it and why PED’s are irrelevant to how he found it, even if the PED he took did plausibly improve his stuff, which it didn’t. Montas had always been a 2 pitch pitcher. High velocity fastball and slider. In 2019 he added a splitter he had been tinkering with, and that was the difference maker. Hitters just had to sit on 2 pitches before, now they’re getting something with much greater vertical break than either of the two pitches they knew he would throw. That’s why he “suddenly found it.” The PED, for the record, wasn’t a PED, it was a banned substance, and a substance that I guarantee you a ton of pitchers use. The one found in his system just wasn’t on the list of approved substances, and MLB made an example of him for it. It did very little to help him, which is backed up by career low velocity, and PED’s don’t help you throw a pitch better.
So you don’t have to “buy the hype” as you say, but you should also recognize that the A’s have worked with much less than what they’re going into 2020 with and come out with pretty stellar results. But from the Angels we’ve seen this song and dance before and it hasn’t been pretty. There is also the question of pitching depth. The A’s have 5 guys with pitchability sitting in the system, ready to come up and snag a job. What do the Angels have?
I CLEARLY understand your optimism. The A’s are amazing. How they won so many games with that staff the last two years goes beyond analysis. They averaged 90+ losses from 2015 to 2017, then they got pitching from pitchers that still defy belief.
Manaea highest prospect ranking was 45th. Heaney 25th. And Heaney is still making his way back from TJ surgery, which is why I don’t think the road for Puk (30th), or Ohtani(1st) is all smiles and rainbows for 2020.
Luzardo, rotatator cuff strain, Grade two lat strain. As up mentioned, he’s as big of a risk for 2020 as Ohtani.
And everyone has excuses for PEDs.
You lost me at “mlb doesn’t track spring training innings or bullpen innings” lmao
Yeah nobody tracks that or cares about that.
If you said Puk, Luzardo, etc pitched significant MiLB innings + MLB innings then okay “maybe” they can make the jump to 160-200ip. I’d be surprised if two of them pitch at least 28 starts, 175IP.
I think he’s just saying he has built up his arm strength and is ready to go. I don’t think Puk is going to hit the floor running anymore than Ohtani is going to hit the floor running. If Ohtani gives the Angels 100 good innings, I’ll be pretty happy, How many years did it take Minor to comeback from TJ?
Minor was good in 2013 at age 25. I think he had TJ in 2014, finally ready to build up arm strength in 2018. And only then being ready to pitch well at age 31 in 2019. Ranger fans are counting on him this year, even though his FIP, which has pretty much matched his ERA, was 4.25 last year.
TJ surgery is more than a one year deal, it’s why the Angels need a sixth starter.
I’ve said a lot of positive comments about the ChiSox offseason because I believe they did well… But, in the Angels defense, I do believe they are better than what they’re given credit for, even with only the one big signing of Rendon and their failure to get a true ace… I have them at 80-84 wins, conservatively, and here’s why: I know it’s easy to plan on injuries but they are too many variables, so until it happens, you can’t plan on it.
Angels lost Ohtani for much of the year. Although I disagree with how they’re using him (I think there are enough bats, he should be FT pitcher), one can argue he is a true ace- he has the stuff. If he’s healthy and pitches to his potential, that’ll be huge. Also, Heaney is projected to improve a bit, and, even though I don’t like the Bundy signing, he also has favorable projections.
So, although they won’t win rotation of the year, they have a good team, whether anti-Angels want to admit it or not.
The lineup is top heavy but potent and the bullpen is above average. The defense is pointedly above average too.
Doesn’t make up for the bottom-5 in the league rotation. Ohtani shouldn’t pitch more than 100 innings this year and Bundy/Tehran are a decent 3 and 4 pitcher depending on the week. They won’t get far without a lot of things falling right.
RD, what did you project their record to be in the above poll?
Ohtani should exceed 100ip. They’ve said he has finished his TJ rehab and will take a break then resume light workouts heading into ST.
If they put him on a once a week pitching schedule that’ll be about 24-26 starts, I think it’s safe to say he’ll be on a pitch limit per game, maybe 80-100? 125-140ip for Ohtani wouldn’t surprise me.
I’d be surprised at anything over 20 starts and 100-120 innings. There will likely be some weeks he’s given extra rest.
We have him for four more years. No need to rush anything.
They play 26 Sunday’s, with 8 Monday’s off. If he pitches once a week (on Sundays) as many sites have mentioned and has a pitch limit of say 90 pitches he should be able to get 5-7IP per start and could skip one here or there. This is ideal so he can rest the arm and not miss a game (or too many games) as DH, then DH Tues-Fri/Sat.
100ip should be reasonably easy. I think the upper limit is 140IP if they use him on that type of schedule.
And that’s exactly how they used him in 2018. I can see him getting a couple weeks off, like the Sunday before the All Star break, for extra rest.
Your numbers look right. I hadn’t counted the actual number of Sunday games.
I agree, so far the off-season is been pretty disappointing. I don’t Count picking up a position player or you didn’t really need, but I’m glad that we have, when you have a glaring weaknesses in the pitching staff to address. With all the top players off of the board, you now I have to resort to trade.
@Murphi Kennedy There were 2 aces available, Cole and Strasburg. The Angels missed on both of them. The Angels have been deficient at 3rd base for years. They were hoping Cozart could fill that void, but he was injured in the 2 years he was with the Angels. The Angels haven’t had a prototypical 3rd baseman since David Freese, and even he wasn’t that good. We haven’t had a good prototypical 3rd baseman since Troy Glaus in the early 2000s. To say 3rd base wasn’t an area of need would be wildly inaccurate. It was and had been for years. I am not ecstatic about our rotation, but I see upgrades over last years rotation. I can see this rotation being able to save the bullpen some innings, allowing them to rest more. We didn’t get an ace that we were all hoping for, but there were 3 top tier free agents available this year and we did get one of them.
Angels have added another group of has been pitchers and one stud 3rd baseman. Stick a fork in them for another year.
Time to take your crazy pills crazylarry.
Not very
We play in probably the best division in baseball, definitely in the AL. That will shave off wins.
Adding Rendon, and soon Adell should be a nice boost to the lineup. The infield defense is arguably the best around in Rendon, Simba, Fletcher.
But the pitching staff lacks a true game dominator and catcher is a black hole in the lineup. We’re bit better than .500 unless a pitcher has a breakout year.
Halo, I had them at 80-84, where did you?
Same. Tough division and looking at sub par production from first, catcher, and possibly left.
Decent but not good rotation.
What do you think are the chances for a reasonable Price trade, and how much difference would it make?
I don’t see the Angels blowing past the salary cap or giving up anyone of consequence for Price.
David Price is owed 32 million a year… right? So, what are the odds of Boston not taking a prospect and paying that down to half? Which is about what he’s worth.
I think the Angels will add a catcher and another pitcher. And maybe an RP.
Getting Price out of Boston where he’s miserable and putting him in a division with actual MLB sized parks probably helps him.
Boston has to pay at least half of that contract, though.
I see them about 85 Wins as it stands now..
1) I think their offense is above average , a defiant top 10 in mlb. Trout Rendon Ohtani is scary good, then fill in Upton, Simba, Flether and if Lastella does what he did last year that’s another all star !
2)defense is ELITE
3) bullpen will be better by default , adding Bundy and Tehran who are steady innings eaters will take a ton of stress off them. the bullpen was lights out until june , they couldnt keep up coming in the 4th inning every single night . they were gased !!
4) their rotation is better then 2018.. by far!I know Bundy and tehran are maybe #4 or 5 guys, but last year we had 6 and 7s pitching night in and night out. also biggest add this year over rendon is Ohtabi, upside of a #1 . but coming off TJ you dont know what to expect . also Canning for a whole year (until his ucl is fully torn and has to go under the knife)
5) everyone points at their record , but fail to remember that we had no Trout, Upton, Ohtani, Pooholes in September, and simmons had a horrible ankle injury , and upton missed 4 months
so to me 85 seems do able, not great by any means. if things break their way, yes I wouldn’t be extremely surprised if they win 90.
maybe theres still another pitcher coming in Price, Boyd(hope not) , Gray, Ray, stroman etc..
Point #3 is spot on. Their bullpen isn’t that bad. I actually like it. It was gassed though because of both Ausmus (putting Buttrey in for 3 innings) and the starters not getting deep. We also are adding a healthy Middleton into the setup roll.
They are much better than people think.
And there are some intriguing bullpen arms in the system. That’s one area of the team that doesn’t get mentioned but was good.
Key, Buttrey, Robles is a good back end. Cam and Noe in earlier roles are decent. I’d like one more arm, but so would about every other team.
They’re not much better than they were last season, even with Rendon
Angels might break the .500 mark on W/L this upcoming season. BTW, this comes from Angel’s fan.
Signed a guy off a career year posting highs in 10+ categories. Always expect regression. Did not improve rotation enough for a playoff contender.
Did you see the rotation last year?
Heaney, Skaggs, Cahill, Harvey, Pena, Canning.
Harvey was released.
Skaggs died July 1.
Cahill sucked, hit the IL, disappeared.
Pena did ok at times (ate innings + no hitter) but ended on IL.
Canning (rookie) he did ok but ended season on IL or innings limit.
No Ohtani.
Enter Suarez.
Enter Sandoval
Enter Dillon.
WHO?!?!
2020 tentatively looks like this…
Heaney
Ohtani
Bundy
Teheran
Canning
they gained one #2 in Ohtani, two #3-4 SP in Bundy/Teheran which replaces the total trash results they got from Cahill/Harvey/Suarez/Sandoval/etc.
There is still 2 months before spring training and guys like Price are out there on the trade market.
Matt Harvey pitched the home opener.
I was there. He gave up 3 runs and at least one bomb before the Angels got to hit in front of their home crowd.
Cahill was the actual Opening Day starter in Oakland.
It sucked.
Yeah, they both sucked. BAD! It was a nightmare start to a nightmare season – just with the pitching staff alone. They had about 4-6 starters/replacements combine for around -5 WAR. (Cahill, Harvey, Suarez, Peters, 1-2 others)
The way I see it. Healthy Upton’s bat and glove make them 5 games better. Ohtani’s bat and arm 10 games better. Bundy and Terahn 10 games better. An all around healthy offense and defensive team with Mike Trout 10-15 games better. That comes out to about 35-40 games better. I see The Angels as a 100 win team easily enough for one of the wild cards.
100 wins? You’re dreaming on that one. They aren’t winning anywhere close to 100 games with that rotation. Will the Angels be better than they have been? Yes, but they aren’t going from a 67 win team to an 100 win team. They haven’t done enough to fix there biggest issue of starting pitching. I’d rank the Yankees, Rays, Twins, Astros & Athletics ahead of them. The Indians have better pitching. The White Sox are improving & they play in a weaker division than the Angels do. The Blue Jays were only 4 games below the Angels last season & have done a far better job of improving their rotation than the Angels have. The Angels should be happy if they get to 81-81 & then build from there
Teheran and Bundy are gar from 5 WAR players
Contreras to Angels for Marsh, J. Soriano, and LaStella comes back to Chicago. Deal?
I’d do it.
I should check Soriano’s numbers and projections.
I have doubts about LaStella repeating last seasons first half production, solid IF utility player though, I’d include him without hesitation.
No deal. Marsh is worth more than that.
PS” I respect 5tool’s opinion. He’s definitely smarter and more knowledgeable than me. But my amateur opinion is still that Marsh’s performance so far and his upside make him worth more.
Honestly asking here. What exactly makes Adell a “super-prospect”?
His numbers are good but by no means eye popping. His OPS has fallen at each level and was pretty terrible in AAA last year (albeit in a small 27 game sample). In what was essentially half a season last year he hit 10 whole homeruns. That’s not exactly amazing considering he strikes out more than once a game and has his whole time in the minors.
So what am I missing? I get that he’s young. But it seems to me like they just slapped a “super-prospect” tag on him and everyone ran with it.
“Honestly asking here. What exactly makes Adell a “super-prospect”?”
Baseball America 2019 rank: #6
Baseball Prospectus 2019 rank: #2
Fangraphs 2019 rank: #3
From FG:
“One of the most explosive athletes in the minors, Adell has made a surprisingly quick ascent to the upper levels and will be an elite big leaguer so long as his bat-to-ball skills continue to develop.”
“His OPS has fallen at each level”
Direct comparison of stats across minor league levels like this doesn’t really illustrate much. Adell blew through rookie and A ball, with his numbers at each level signaling his readiness for the next level of competition.
His first hiccup at AA in 2018 (his 3rd level that year) was a poor performance, but viewing it in a vacuum ignores the purpose of the minors: presenting players with increasing levels of competition and evaluating/maximizing their ability to adjust to and rise to/above them, which Adell did in 2019, increasing his OPS from .753 to .943, while bumping his walk rate up 2% and cutting his K rate by 8.5%.
After ending 2019 with an inauspicious month in AAA. Adell is positioned similarly to his post-2018. With his tools, and having already shown an ability to adjust/improve (also, he’ll be 3-4 years younger than the average AAA player), there’s very little left for him to prove in the minors.
Again, from FG
“At that point, we’re talking prime Andrew McCutchen and Grady Sizemore-type tools.”
“But it seems to me like they just slapped a “super-prospect” tag on him and everyone ran with it.”
If by “they” you mean “the organizations most respected for their ‘super=prospect’ tag-slappin’ ability” you’re absolutely right. And everyone has run with it, including Adell.
Actually, it’s just the opposite. He was widely doubted when the Angels drafted him. Nobody slapped a super prospect tag on him and ran with it.
Current summation from mlbpipeline:
“Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 65 | Arm: 60 | Field: 60 | Overall: 65
Remember when there was concern about Adell’s ability to hit at the pro level coming out of the Kentucky high school ranks in 2017, even though he was the state’s Gatorade Player of the Year and led all prepsters with 25 home runs? Yeah, no one else does, either, not after Adell raked across two levels of Rookie ball during his summer debut then hit his way all the way to Double-A at age 19 in 2018, fitting in a Futures Game appearance for good measure. Hamstring and ankle injuries shelved him in Spring Training, and he was sidelined for an extended period of time.
While the swing-and-miss tendencies that concerned some scouts still remain with Adell, his bat speed and ability to read pitches and make adjustments more than outstrip the worry. He’s shown the ability to drive the ball to all fields and his over-the-fence pop started showing up consistently during his first full season. Yes, Adell can still refine his overall approach to see more pitches and draw more walks, but the strides he has quickly made in pitch recognition bode well for his future at the plate. Adell’s speed works on both sides of the ball, giving him the ability to steal some bases and enough range to play center field, especially as he improves his reads and routes.
Should he slow down a touch as he physically matures, Adell has shown the ability to play the outfield corners. A shoulder issue that kept him from playing the outfield in 2017 is a distant memory and the plus arm that allowed him to crank out plus fastballs from the mound in high school has returned. The five-tool outfielder is way ahead of schedule and could be patrolling the Angels outfield alongside Mike Trout sooner rather than later.”
How does he get an overall rate of 65 when he only has one individual tool, run, rated at 65, and another tool, hit, is rated as low as 55?
I’ve wondered that as well, and I’ve seen it on other players too. Strange.
Because the overall rating is not an average of the 5 tools. Having 5 above average tools, being above average in every aspect of the game, is in itself more valuable.
4 straight years of no more than 80 wins so they do need to prove something to everyone. For me I can’t see them less than 85 wins (I voted for 90-94). There was 10 teams last year that won 90+ games. But the Angels are desperately in need of pitching they give up way to many home runs and Bundy’s addition doesn’t help lower that number.
I cant wait to watch the rebuilding M’s beat up on these fat bloated contracts over the next several years!!!
The Westgate Sports Book will send a limo to McCarran Airport to pick you up if you’d like to place some money on that.
DiPoto is the guy who traded Clevinger for Pestano. But then again, he also got the Mets to take Cano’s contract.
A strong 3rd place team as they stand today.
Meh. Rendon might have the best swing in the majors. Tehren and Bundy are mediocre.
Assuming that one of those two pitchers replaces Skaggs, then they’ve added one mediocre SP. Love Rendon, but they also lost a decent player in Calhoun.
Maybe .500.
The Angels were 5 games above 500 in late July. Skaggs and Calhoun helped get them there.
Since that date, The injured Upton batted 192. The injured Simmons 229 with a 621 OPS+. Trout was shutdown for 3 weeks. Ohtani was shut down for three weeks. All Star LaStella broke his leg. So those players will be added.
As well as Canning, Bundy, Tehran, Ohtani the pitcher, Rendon. Middleton. Pena, Bedrosian… Am I forgetting anyone? Oh, they’ll likely add a catcher and maybe someone else.
So you think by getting all those players back they are going to be worse?
I usually go by their overall record, taking into account their Py W/L, which were both 72. Then I add or subtract guys that I think will have better/worse seasons, and add back for injured players.
Simmons +2, Rendon +3 (Fletcher was pretty good), Ohtani +1 (not sure he can pitch yet), Calhoun -1, Skaggs/Bundy -0-, Tehran +1, Canning +2, Adell +2.
I got +10 back of an envelope calculations. This isn’t like the WS, SD, and Cincy where 5-6 guys might take a step forward.
washington lost 2 best hitters in 2 seasons. and san diego? lmao!
WS stands for the White Sox, not Washington. And your lmao remark is meaningless unless you explain why you disagree. And it is unlikely you understand my point anyway.
lyao! san diego? ha ha!
Is lyao an abbreviation for something? Past that, I once again ask, do you have any idea what the concept is that you are referring to?
Why does everyone keep putting Wheeler in the same tier of free agent pitchers as Cole and Strasburg? Julio Teheran had a lower ERA and better ERA+ than Wheeler did last year.
Wheeler is a head case — as a Mets fan I am glad he is gone to Phila — who overpaid — by no means is he in Cole or Strasburg class —
astros’ roster is becoming too expensive. they will have to re-build soon. besides, take away their cheating, nobody knows how much they will regress. add whatever the penalty, i can see them go down to the bottom of the west again.
a’s will have to be reconfigured and that’s simply in their dna.
rangers are always also-ran.
mariners are never going to be decent as long as dipdip keeps trading.
angels, on the other hand, are climbing and will go all the way!
and the trolls? their mamas find out about them and lock them in basements without computers or smartphones!
So much conjecture. I’ve asked this question before and have yet to get an answer from those who continually bash the Angels: What do the Angels have to do for you to concede they are competitive?
No one can argue against their infield defense being in the top 3 in MLB. Ohtani will be back on the mound and I believe he can be the “ace” everyone is clamoring for. The argument is that he is “unproven” without considering his dominant career in Japan prior to coming here. One of the most potent line-ups in baseball that includes Trout, Rendon, Ohtani, Upton (not a fan), LaStella, Simmons, et al.
We still need pitching and a catcher. But I believe this team is more competitive today than the bashers will ever give them credit for. The Astros are also not as good as they were in 2019. We will see how the season unfolds. Anything else is speculative.
Angels need 3 starting pitchers and pen help — and I dont mean just any 3 starting pitchers — front line horses and there arent any so 72 wins — maybe
Mr Vinny. I’d like for the Angels to add another BP arm, but why do they need bullpen help? Middleton, Bedrosian and Ramirez are back. They have Buttrey, Robles. They all miss bats, they all keep the ball in the park and they all K more than a hitter an inning. And their ERA + goes from 184, 141, 134, 114, 114.
Mac – I agree our BP is ok as is. My only concern is Bedrosian. He has shown flashes of solid pitching, but is too streaky.
Bullpens as you know are so important in todays game — you never have enough good arms — and with this stupid 3 batter rule now more than ever you need guys who can get LHH and RHH hitters out — Angels will prob pick up JA Happ from Yankees and maybe Chris Archer from Pirates — tho they are no longer horses its better than nothing when there isnt much out there
Congratulations. You win stupid post of the thread.
They still finish 4th
So glass, what do the Angels need to do to be competitive in your opinion?
I don’t mind anyone picking the Angels to finish behind the Rangers. I mind the people who say they stink and they have no pitching.
If their 7th through 13th pitchers start 100 games… again… they are not going to be very good. If they can get 120+ starts from their 1st through 6th pitchers, I think they’ll be very competitive.
Yes. We’ve had to pitch our triple A staff.
And Cahill, Harvey, and others should have been in AAA.
I think what it boils down to (for probably many of us) is that the Angels are missing that “anchor” of the pitching staff. Trout anchors the offense. Simmons the defense. Maddon now anchors the coaching staff. For years the Yankees had Mariano anchoring the pitchers just like the Brewers had Hader last year. It doesn’t have to be an “ace”, it has to be that guy the opposition forms a strategy for. Ohtani cant be that guy simply because hes a once a week pitcher + part time hitter. Hes a Swiss Army knife. I’m looking for Eppler to make a trade for a guy who might not be an anchor immediately on paper, but can become one (like a Jon Gray). I put this current Halo squad about 84 wins, it deserves much better…anchor that pitching squad and the Halos can get closer to 90. This Trout led team and fanbase need at least a WC run in 2020.
I agree dirk. However, if Ohtani is pitching one game a week, the rest of the rotation is too. I thought Heaney or Skaggs could have been that anchor you refer to. I think Heaney has the potential still if he stays healthy. Barria, Sandoval, Peters, and Canning are just getting started so who knows which way they will trend.
It’s much easier to win with an anchor.
To be honest, I thought 2018 was about Heaney getting healthy and rebuilding arm strength. I thought he was going to explode last year. I always liked Skaggs, but he always seemed to be hurt in a variety of different. I was hopeful Skaggs could pitch 150 innings, but I was expecting Heaney to be that anchor.
yep, I think a lot of us were Mac.
Heaney is the staff veteran now, he needs to step up for sure.
I think Heaney needs to re-evaluate his delivery. When I saw him pitch for the first time, I immediately had a bad feeling he would end up with arm surgery. Because he always looks like he’s about to bail out just as he’s about to release the ball. I also saw a photo of him that captured the moment he makes contact with the ground with his front foot. His throwing arm was almost straight back, parallel to the ground. That arm needs to be as close to upright, at or near a 90 degree angle as possible. And preferably before hitting the ground with his front foot. When I looked at footage of Julio Teheran after the Angels first signed him, I noticed his arm was upright and his front foot was still in the air, and then he stepped and threw. That’s a big reason he’s durable and mostly injury free. Jack Morris is a good reference for this. He was ready to throw before his front foot was even ready to land. I’ve just always thought that Heaney needs to refine that part of his delivery to be healthier and more durable.
He is already working on that this offseason. The most interesting thing is that Callaway has already met with and started working with most of his starting pitching staff. Not many new pitching coaches that have jumped into the fray even before they are collecting a paycheck.
I’m with you eph. I get that hope. And that may come to fruition in the coming years. I think for 2020, however, they need that guy where the opposition says “oh [crap]” when hes in the game. And honestly, that may be a guy like Hader (if the starter trade well is dry). Adding Hader at the back end just eases that starting staff and gives guys like Middleton and Buttrey defined roles (kinda like 2002 Angel’s with Weber, Donnely, Frankie, and Percy). Eppler is a move away and I’m hoping he knows that.
dirk – like the 2002 BP or not, Scioscia was very regimented with their specific roles. It got the job done.
I think we can be there now with the right catcher and this rotation. A front end starter would tie things up better.
I agree, I def prefer a starter. Obviously none of us are in that room and know what the asking prices are, but a Jon Gray, Robbie Ray type starter would be my first get (obv Clevinger would be #1 if ever in reach). But I truly believe one difference making pitcher can take this team into WC contention. If no starter, then I would pivot to the best reliever (Hader).
dirk – but you lose me when you assign a win number of 84 when we’re in December. That’s arbitrary.
I only mention that because of the poll asking how many wins. Gun to my head, I’d say about 84. Either way, that’s prob not getting a WC berth.
With those 5 starting pitchers they will be lucky to win 80 games. I thought they would at least sign 1 of Ryu,Bumgarner or Keuchel. Teheran and Bundy are not goung to get it done. Teheran is going to get hit hard in the American league.
With those 5 starting pitchers, they’ll win 90 games. The problem is not with those starting pitchers, the problem is with the 5 starting pitchers that follow those starting pitchers. That’s why the Angels added Bundy and Teheran. They got sick of sending out their 8th and 9th best starters.
They Angels need 120+ starts from their first six starters. I.M.O, If they get that many stars, which is a huge if, they’ll push 90 wins.
If they could sign Alex Wood , and maybe trade for Chris Archer that would give them a boost.
I think 86 wins with Maddon as their manager, Trout finally has protection in the line up, If they could somehow swing a trade for another starter and sign alex wood and jason castro, they could win more then 86 games
Don’t see them finishing with more than 85 wins. They needed pitching and didn’t get it. Rendon is nice, but when you have no starting pitching, it doesn’t matter how good the offense is. Plus trout is good to miss 40-50 games because he is a human bandaid
Al west standings
1. Athletics
2. Astros
3. Rangers
4. Angels
5. Mariners
Are band-aids known for being susceptible to injury/amazing at baseball?
You say 85 wins, yet have them at 4th place. Fail.
Hmm let’s see here, the Rangers best power hitter is… Choo. Who is… *checks reference* 38 this year. You think Lindor is gonna get them past the Angels?? Ha!
According to anonymous source closer to the subject *yup mmhmm* your reference is turds. You’re forgetting Santana / Gallo and even Odor hits 30 home runs.
Put Thaiss and Ward back to catcher (natural position) for AB’s; use stassi for defense in the late innings; Starters are fine with their bullpen; Boyd would be in upgrade with his walk to strikeout metrics and a good defense behind him will be a big difference; Trade Suarez for Boyd
“I’ve solved our problem at Catcher!”
“Really?! Are the Cubs willing to move Contreras on the cheap? Is there a secret much-younger 4th Molina?…it’s not Jeff Mathis, right?”
“None of the above. Best part? They’re already in the organization.”
“They?”
“You know those two guys who we drafted and were so bad at catching that we changed course with them, teaching them new positions because even in the minors their lack of skill behind the plate was glaringly unacceptable.”
“Ward and Thaiss, yes…”
“We have them both be Catchers again! Platoon them and put them in charge of calling games for our always ?-filled pitching staff!”
“…”
“We’d have Stassi for defense in the late innings.”
“…so the team would carry 3 catchers, one of whom can actually catch, and the other two with 0 track record of producing enough offensively at the ML level to justify the switch/roster space.”
“Bingo!”
“…Billy…”
I wonder if Mike Trout regrets signing his new multi-year contract as Moreno is balking paying for pitching or these Free Agent Pitchers don’t want to play for the Angels because the taxes are very high living in California!!
On july 31 angels were 56 and 54 and still had an outside chance at a wild card. The last 2 months after the skaggs death. (All Star La Stellas broken leg.) The pitching staff which was barely hanging on was taxed. Then trout missed the last 3 weeks. 2 ground ball, durable inning eater pitchers in the 3 and 4 sport will help tremendously. Othani will be back. and Rendon at third. The bull pen solid until they got to the point where the starters were going less than 5 innings. Playoff team?? maybe not But given there they were 2/3 of the way through the season I think they made drastic improvements..