There seems little doubt now that the Astros participated in sign-stealing aided by a live feed from a centerfield camera. The Astros’ maintain their belief that actions at the time were “in line with industry standards,” per Andy Martino of SNY.tv. The newest sticking point is an insistence out of Houston that the camera in question was already in place and not purchased/installed specifically for the purpose of stealing signs. It may seem a bizarre place to draw a line in the sand – and on its own hardly exculpatory – but the installation of equipment does affect the breadth of involvement necessary to put their sign-stealing process in place. At least one witness claimed that many teams use a similar camera for the decoding of signs. Said the witness, “All we asked for was a live feed.” Astros’ hitting coach Alex Cintron played the part of antagonist as the conflict escalated between the Astros and Yankees during the ALCS, though as of right now, it’s unclear who might expect discipline beyond GM Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch. Regardless, it does seem that the investigation is progressing and disciple of some sort seems likely. Now, let’s get back to winter action and check in on a couple of clubs…
- Count the San Diego Padres among those teams more focused on shedding contracts than adding them. GM A.J. Preller’s top priority right now is finding a taker for Wil Myers, per The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal and Jayson Stark. Myers is due $22.5MM per season for the next three with a $20MM team option for 2023 that comes with a $1MM buyout. That’s a steep payout for a 29-year-old corner outfielder/first baseman who put up just 96 wRC+ last season. The Padres are also looking to move catcher Austin Hedges, who is set to make roughly $2.9MM this year and has two more arbitration seasons remaining. For the second straight offseason, they continue to talk with the Indians about Corey Kluber, tweets MLB Network’s Jon Heyman, though a deal on that front before Spring Training is unlikely. They remain curious about Dallas Keuchel and Madison Bumgarner as well, but a deal for any top pitcher seems unlikely unless they find a taker for Myers – which in and of itself presents Preller with a sizable challenge.
- Charlie Culberson had a couple of major league offers, but none significant enough to outweigh the appeal of returning to Atlanta, per MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. The fanbase in Atlanta is quite fond of Culberson, a dirtdog and Atlanta native who plays all over the diamond for manager Brian Snitker. The minor league deal enables the Braves to utilize Culberson’s 40-man roster spot, while incentives in the deal give Culberson similar earning potential to what he’d seen in other offers. Outside of occasional pop, Culberson doesn’t offer a ton with the bat, but he’s a decent baserunner and plays everywhere on the diamond except catcher and centerfield. If nothing else, seeing Culberson return in a Braves uniform would be a heartwarming moment for fans after a brutal injury ended Culberson’s 2019. On a failed bunt attempt at Nats Park, Culberson took a Fernando Rodney fastball to the face that led to a fractured cheekbone.
So they’ll fine them and maybe take away some draft picks. Big deal.
they should be suspended 1 year from all post season. Of course that will not happen.
This isn’t college sports! They will not be suspended from the post season!
No. That’s too easy. Make them keep the expensive contracts. Just make all of their cheap prospects free agents. Especially all of their top prospects (including their #1 outfield prospect. I think his name is Michael Tucker or something like that). Also surrender all of their draft picks for at least the next 3 years (since they cheated for at least 3 year) and then just fine the heck out of them. At least somewhere in the multiple millions. Make the fines count against their luxury tax, too. There is no point in vacating championships because owners already reached the benefits of that financially. Vacating is only symbolic. Hit them where it hurts. The wallet. Make sure they have to pay a ton of cash to do anything. Strip the farm and draft from them so they have to rely on their own money to stay afloat. Don’t prevent any of their players from re-signing with the organization but allow them to test the market. The owners will have to choose between paying out the you know what to keep this team going or just start a rebuild. My guess is that they will pay out the you know what for know since cheating has helped them become so great recently. Also, give lifetime bans to any front office people, coaches or managers that were aware if the cheating. The Braves GM received a lifetime ban for much less than this. The Braves also lost great prospects to free agency. That all happened without the Braves ever breaking any kind of on field rule. I don’t think they even technically “broke” any off field rules. They were only accused of circumventing rules when signing international players by doing things like buying their family members cars and houses. This is far worse and undermines the credibility of the actual game itself. If the Braves received lifetime bans, loss of prospects, loss of draft picks and fines for not even technically breaking any rule then the Stro Ho’s deserve much worse.
Are you like 8 years old?
I think you’re referring to Chris Tucker.
It’s Kyle Tucker
Guy blowing hot air about the Astros being cheaters and can’t even name their players. Gotcha.
No fining them and taking draft picks wont hurt them. These teams are too rich. Taking the 2017 ws title away would hurt the worst and send a message across mlb. Take the title away and leave it blank. Then when everyone asks what happened. The astros will be known for only team to vacate the title. They cant give it to Dodgers due to well them not “winning”. But if mlb wants to send a message. Take the title away.
I could definitely get on board with this! I was thinking of a hard salary cap figure of like $125 million thinking that there team would have to be disbanded to meet that figure. If they are in the series at all in the next three years then it won’t seem like much of a penalty in my opinion
Suspend for year manager, general manager, hitting coach and everybody that installed or help install the equipment. Also suspend the person or persons the put up, took down the monitor and beat on the trash can.
Try reading the article. There was no installing.
Lol as if that gives them innocence in the situation. Still guilty AF, Ban Em All!!
Sure there wasn’t. Its been a rumor for a few years. They were caught stealing signs on purpose and management knew what was happening., So what should be the punishment? shouldn’t all that knew what was going on be fired immediately?
@snyder It’s not a sticking point. Like saying if someone commits murder but they didn’t buy the weapon used before doing it, that they always owned the weapon. It’s crazy stupid.
So they claim. Can’t possibly be b. s. And even still, why are they just now claiming that or why not have it removed? Within industry standards, yeah right.
What they did is worse than what Pete Rose did, so I hope MLB throws the book at the cheaters.
I thought you meant “beat on the trash can” as part of the penalty. That poor can has suffered enough.
Will likely be in line with the spanking Boston got for using technology.
I believe I read another article that stated they installed a laptop computer in The dugout tunnel in order to watch the live feed from the camera that was already installed. So even if they didn’t install the camera, they did install the laptop.
Suspend the trash can
Try comprehending the article. The Astros are alleging they they didn’t install the camera expressly for sign stealing. That hasn’t been proven. Also, the Astros have been caught lying numerous times already so their credibility is suspect at best.
except that many of the people involved have moved on to other organizations… so if you come down hard on Houston, you also have to harshly punish Boston, Baltimore, etc…
if Cora and Beltran or others were directly involved you can’t just look the other way.
@wvreds So what? In an effort to maintain the integrity of the game, it matters that people who are aware have moved to other teams. We might not have found out as quickly as we did if this didn’t happen. Bottom line, nobody said anything, admitted anything, came out of hiding.
i agree with you… what I am saying that if you penalize Houston with bans or season penalties, then Boston has to be banned also… Baltimore & New York Mets too
You also can’t punish theue current organizations who weren’t involved at all.
@redsfan they wouldn’t punish/ban teams like BOS/NYM/BAL if Houston players or coaches are playing there, they would punish the player. *IF* there were any post season team ban it would be Houston only. Boston losing Cora for 50-100 games or a season would be bad enough.
It’s all a huge misunderstanding.
A Houston cop was assigned to guard the locall landfill.
Thus he had a beat on a trash can.
It is pretty damning evidence
ftw.usatoday.com/2019/11/astros-fiers-stealing-sig…
Suspend everyone involved 100 games, take hundred draft picks, and no Christmas gifts.
MLB needs to put an investigative team in place to actively look for cameras and listening devices. There is equipment available to make that happen and MLB can purchase the top level stuff.
Talking through gloves and mound conferences are boring. Bring back simple signs.
Move the team to Venezuela
Forfeiting draft picks is a very big deal.
Considering what MLB did to the Braves a few years back it’s hard to speculate what Manfred will do with the Astros. People suggesting they get stripped of the World Series Championship are delusional.
I think the punishment will be along those lines…problem is in the Braves case, the solution was pretty simple: Everyone who was signed by circumventing rules were free agents and eligible to sign with other clubs…If you’re wanting to make a point like this all you can really do is suspensions, fines, or loss of draft picks.
@reveriedays That is exactly it. Every team did it in 2017, several were caught including the Red Sox and Yankees, and no team can do it today since there is no live feed.
Exactly!
It’s over for the Stro ho’s
Yeah right lmao
If I’m CC, take the money. Curious if those deals would be worth more than our minor league deal. I have no idea what he signed for
Most likely incentive laden when he makes the ML roster.
Make all free agents Astro’s signed 2019-2021 free agents
Wil Myers to the padres for Price, the sox get a salary dump, and the Padres pay a good starter the money, and not a below average outfielder.
will Myers is already on the padres. try again
To the red sox, excuse me.
Been talked about so many times already that it appears to be a smokescreen. As bad as the Price contract is. barring health issues. the WM contract is far worse. Might be a situation where their catcher is included with others. Sox need a back up catcher and certainly would have paid Leon’s money if they knew they had a taker for Price.
Pitchers tend to experience declining production under seven-year contracts, especially when the contract is signed after the pitcher’s 30th birthday.
In his four seasons with the Red Sox, David Price has posted 10.6 fWAR, valued at $85 million, while being paid $121 million. Over the most recent three seasons Price has posted 6.2 fWAR, valued at $49.8 million, while being paid $91 million.
As a point of reference, Rick Porcello, who is three years younger, recently signed a one-year, $10 million contract after posting the same 6.2 fWAR, valued at $49.8 million, over the past three seasons.
For luxury tax purposes, a straight-up trade of Price for Wil Myers would save the Red Sox $17+ million annually for three years. The Red Sox would accrue significant long-range benefits by not exceeding the luxury tax threshold for a third consecutive year.
No one suggests that a trade of Price for Myers would improve the Red Sox on the field in 2020. But the deal could improve the long-term health of the franchise.
Means nothing when the team wins a championship. Sox made out fine on both contracts when 2018 is factored in. Both were key in the playoffs and earned their money.
Other than Price, can you name a single other pitcher on a 6+ year deal that was not worth it for the team?
Zimmerman
Actually Preller just might try to trade a player not on his roster to receive a player already on his roster. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility
Only if DiPoto is involved
The Padres would have to add some excellent prospects for that to happen…..
Article says preller wants to REDUCE salary now by finding a TAKER for Meyers.
No way he’s accepting a higher-salaried player in David Price, let alone attaching prospects.
This is what everyone is missing. The Padres and the Sox are looking for the same thing, reduced payroll. This makes them very poor trade partners for each other
Red Sox are looking to reduce payroll for CBT purposes. If the AAV of the incoming player is significantly lower, they could care less if the actual annual salary now and in the future is the same as the outgoing player.
Wil Myers is at $13.833 million AAV and Price is $31 million AAV.
The Red Sox would have to include at least $30 million to make this even possible for the Padres who are looking to trade Myers to lower their payroll.
Gary, It has been reported that AJ Preller IS WILLING to include prospects in order to move Wil Myers and the majority of his contract. The team acquiring Wil Myers wouldn’t be paying just for Myers, but for the privilege of obtaining the young prospects.
That’s great news but I don’t know if that would be the case with a trade for David Price and is 30 million-dollar X 3 years contract?
Myers, Hedges and a pitching prospect for Price
Price
Paddack
Richards
Lucchesi/Lamet
Davies
Not too shabby if the Padres can get that done.
Myers salary way to too much it’s over 90 million. With 1 million-plus buyout.
Not it isn’t. It’s 3 years 67.5M remaining. He has a 20M dollar club option for 23’ which would be declined in favor of a 1M dollar buy-out.
Sending his contract takes a huge chunk out of what’s owed to Price -96M
Adding a catcher like Hedges, a pitching prospect and some cash possibly, that’s a huge win for Boston.
That helps for AAV. That’s the biggest concern for Boston. Price’s AAV is 31 million. Myers is only 16. Price is more valuable but that extra 15 million in AAV would alleviate some stress on Boston’s payroll. Hedges fills in fine as a backup catcher. If they get a pretty solid pitching prospect back—that could work.
$13.833 million (6/83) for Myers and $31 million Price. (7/217)
To be precise, Wil Myers entire six-year contact was for $83 million. He now has three years and $61 million remaining, including the buyout of the 2023 option.
More importantly, Myers has an AAV of only $13.83 million for luxury tax purposes, a significant savings of $17+ million over David Price’s AAV of $31 million.
The Red Sox have money. They just don’t have an easy means to get under the luxury tax threshold. That’s the attraction of the Myers contract and its lower AAV.
Right. Myers+Hedges is 16 for AAV purposes.
With Price’s injury history the last 3 seasons, the Red Sox are not going to get anything other than CBT salary reduction for Price. No other prospects or Hedges or anything. 21 starts per season and a 3.75 ERA/3.82 FIP for $31 million doesn’t get you anything else in return. Not even the Angels would do anymore than take his salary off the Red Sox hands. Too much risk.
Price for Myers straight up might happen and the Red Sox might get prospects if they agree to pay half the $96 million he is owed.
I should rephrase that. If they were trading with a good GM, the Red Sox would not get anything other than salary reduction for Price. The Padres already traded two prospects for Profar when they could have had him for nothing the next day. So never say never Red Sox fans. Preller might make your dream of getting rid of Price and getting prospects in return come true.
“With Price’s injury history the last 3 seasons, the Red Sox are not going to get anything other than CBT salary reduction for Price.”
They do if they are taking back an overpaid clubhouse cancer who was below replacement level in 2019 like Wil Myers.
Koamalu stop the crap. Will Myers is worthless. Price is well worth 35 MM for 3 years. Perhaps you’ve fallen asleep and not realized that pitchers are worth far more than 1B who can’t bat the league average. Price is worth 3x what Myers is worth.
Or your opinion might change if he was wearing some nice Angel Red….
Pay attention….. that swap will not get it done money wise on the Sox size
@badco44. Run the trade through the Baseball Trade Values simulator (which does not even take into account the positive luxury tax implications for the Red Sox):
baseballtradevalues.com/trade-simulator/
Are you serious? May as well use your Xbox MLB game.
@Koamalu Alternative calculations are welcome (and I’ve never touched an Xbox).
The Red Sox wouldn’t do this though unless they felt they could also flip Myers to save more $ or the Padres paid some of his salary (which is unlikely given that Price would be going back in return and he’s kind of in the same boat – $ wise). The deal actually wouldn’t be bad except that the main/only reason the Red Sox are dealing Price to begin with is to dump as much salary as possible. So it doesn’t make sense for them to trade Price if all they’re getting back in return is another bad contract. Price for Myers would only save them $12M/year. Whereas if they trade Price elsewhere and even eat $30M they’d be saving $25M/year. Unless there’s another $ saving element for the Sox there’s just no way this deal happens — despite the obvious appeal both players would have to the other team – if $ weren’t the way it is. — MAYBE and that’s a big MAYBE if the Padres took Price and Bradley for Myers and a Prospect something could happen. But that seems really unlikely as well.
somebody needs to hit a liner off of Fernando Rodney’s face
Yo calm down.
the way rodney pitches you know that it wasn’t on purpose. His pitches have always been all over the place. He doesn’t have a straight pitch.
i do’t like him either but never want him hurt badly.
Fernando wanted me to say “Feliz Navidad, Gringo” as a response
Rodney felt absolutely terrible about hitting Charlie, he was clearly shook after it happened as we all were. There’s no way it was on purpose and there’s no reason for beef there
So their defense is other teams do it. I hope MLB nails them to a wall.
The ole Patriots defence
Being a rangers fan, I’d love to see tons of punishments for this, I mean the astros probably made Yu Darvish lose tons of money in FA, because he was great in the NLCS, but when he played the astros (especially in houston) he was rocked! I love me some Yu Darvish, and just for that I’d tell them to move the team to Montreal as punishment.
That would violate the Constitutional provision
of “cruel and unusual punishment!”
They scored 5 runs off Darvish in game 7, at Dodger Staduim, in less than 2 innings.
Yep, that CF camera at MMP paid dividends in that one! Really long zoom lense…being facetious of course. Not saying they didn’t do anything wrong, but the comments on here are just nuts and over the top.
And plus, it was kind of the rise of Playoff Kershaw in 2017… so maybe it is still in his head mentaly… so yeah quit ruining players careers.
Damn dude that’s kinda kinky.
Lol, for being a ranger.
Yu cost himself even more money with how terrible he was at the start of his career in Chicago…. He could’ve opted out and been playing with “stupid money” teams have been giving out this offseason
After last years second half he still could’ve opted out and got a higher AAV. He says he’s comfortable in Chicago and has no intention of opting out. As a cubs fan, I’m happy to have him on our side.
Lmao
Alrighty then. Other teams are involved in the identical activity, where do you think the idea came from? From a player joining the Astros from another team already using the system. I’m fine with punishment if guilty, just be certain that EVERY team doing this is equally punished, no “looking the other way” and claiming “this matter is now taken care of.” EVERY OTHER TEAM…
Prove it. We’re only talking about proven cheating here. Not lame conjecture. Prove it or shut up with your lame excuses.
Get this BS out of here. That’s an entirely unsubstantiated claim. Astros have been accused so many times by other teams, how can you even act like they aren’t the biggest culprit around
In other news, the Padres have no news.
Ryan Wheeler, The Padres have news….just OLD news. They need a team to take Wil Myers off their hands and can’t find one….OLD NEWS.
Disciple is likely? U guys think it’ll be Peter, Paul, Luke or Mark?
Thomas, because I doubt that MLB will do anything meaningful
Paul?
Paul AKA Saul
Sorry. Whn I saw Luke and Mark I immediately went to John.
Yeah, and Matthew. You know, the gospels. I hesitated for a moment when I saw the list, too.
Popular scholarship points to Lazarus being one of the disciples now.
all of them, male an example of them!
You do realize that stealing signs has been around for over a hundred years. Case in point, but in 1972, in Boston, they had a guy sitting in the center field bleachers with a red shirt on with binoculars. He would see the sign of the catcher, then stand for a fastball, raised his right arm for a curve, or didn’t move if it was a breaking pitch. Other teams have done the same and even players on second base looked in to see the sign, which led to the whole league having to change the signs with a man on second. In 2019, in the era of technology, sign stealing has become easier to do and EVERY team is guilty of it, so if they want to put an end to it, they must penalize every team, not just a few, since they are all guilty. Some just made it more obvious than others did. lol.
Prove it, Ashleyr. We’re only talking about proven cheating here. Not lame conjecture. Prove they every team is doing it or shut up with your lame excuses.
Oh please, everyone does it? Care to show the proof like we have on the Houston Asteriks?
Sounds like you are making a pathetic attempt to justify their actions and their stolen world series title.
Innocent until proven guilty. Accept that your team cheated and that they should be punished. If there’s evidence of other teams cheating, then they should also be punished. Making a blanket claim that every team should be punished is just plain dumb and ignorant. Be objective.
Who! There is no one named any of these names in a meaningful position in the Astros front office
Nicely played…
Always wondered how AJ Hinch went from an awful player, to awful coach, to manager of the year?
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! All their success was purely cheating! Same with New England!
LMAO them cheating was purely idiotic, if so. Furthermore, any ball club could achieve success with a lineup of Springer, Altuve, Bregman & Correa among others, without doing so.
But they couldn’t hit over 330 with 2 out.
Randy_Watson
Sure they could achieve success but maybe winning the division and the WS for them takes cheating.
you could take a lineup of Shane Spencer and make him look like Mike Trout if you know what pitches are coming..
Someone needs to write a song …
Bang once for that fastball……
Bang twice baby for that offspeed..
1998 Shane Spencer IS Mike Trout
You can’t honestly think this is the whole reason Houston is good?
yes, I believe Huston was only good by cheating. Just look when Houston was playing A. The A’s swept them when Houston on road. There are many like this one where they lost on the road but could do nothing wrong at home.
ASTROS ARE GOING TO BE CONTRACTED AND ALL MEMBERS OF ORGANIZATION EXECUTED BY FIRING SQUAD
-certain recent MLBTR posters
A strong message HAS to be sent to stop this nonsense in its tracks. You aren’t going to do that with a small fine. You aren’t going to do that if players aren’t fined, too. Or suspended. Or both. And Luhnow and Hinch should just be gone from the sport. No excuse for that behavior. No tolerance, either.
I agree, and I’d love to see the Astros receive significant consequences, but some of the comments on recent posts have just been silly, talking about postseason bans and so forth
Yeah I don’t see titles taken back or postseason bans, etc., happening.
As they definitely should, but there is really no logical reason to think that they would be stripped of their 2017 World Series title since professional sports teams that were caught cheating have never been stripped of championships.
I doubt it will happen but if they vacate the title, it will be a long time before someone tries that again.
Take away the team’s next 3 first round picks. Maybe even their next 5. If you end up costing them their next Whitley and/or Tucker, they will definitely notice.
The organization is probably going to get a massive fine, I think. This may come down as the largest ever.
I don’t believe there will be suspensions, unfortunately.
They’re also not going to vacate any championships, or anything. For those wanting the hammer, the closest you might see to it is the loss of a few high draft picks. If they get hit with 2-3 years of that though, it won’t be insignificant. With their payroll rising already, depleting the farm could be a backbreaker.
There will be no big punishment for the asstros. This commissioner has no balls just like selig
Hope you’re wrong but of course that’s the fear. The fear is nothing much is done and the problem continues. That, of course, is what Stros fans would like. No repercussions and the opportunity to keep stealing signs to win.
Not true, even here in Houston folks see that if the league concludes that they did it, then so be it and live with the consequences. This online kangaroo court seems out of control.
I was coaching first base for my team in the 90’s and sometimes I could steal the signs. I might say the batter’s first name for a fastball, last name if not. Some didn’t want to know. It wasn’t that big of a deal. Why don’t they just get the Navajo code talkers to give the signs? Tempest in a tea pot.
That way is legal. Having someone in CF with binoculars or using technology is not.
@whyhazee that’s offensive.
Padres have 3 options when it comes to myers.
1) keep him for at least another year. Problem is they want to win next year and need the cash to improve.
2) trade one bad contract for another that fits them better next year. Enter names like Price. The problem here is the starting pitching market has exploded this year. Latest reports are now the sox are wishful someone will take on all of his contract (doubtful still). At the very least the sox eat around 10m per year and trade him at a 20m aav. This still unlikely but maybe not impossible any longer. 3 x 15 – 20m now seems like the range. So if the Padres wanted to do a deal with the sox it would need to look something like this. Myers and 22.5m aav and price at 32aav. Price current value around 15-20m aav myers more like 7 aav.
Myers worth call it 5m aav, price worth call it 18m aav. Makes price worth 13m more per year then myers.
Current difference is 9.5m per year. So trading myers for price the padres would also need to pay down myers contract by around 4m per year. The fact is a 34 broken, declining price over paid by around 14m a year is still not as over paid as myers. So padres trade myers and 12m for price. Price would then cost the padres about 36m a year.
3) padres trade a boat load of prospects to get someone to take on all or part of his contract.
Talk about being in a bad spot.
The Giants are the perfect match to take on ALL of Myers contract and some Top 10 prospects. I think the reason it hasn’t happened is Preller doesn’t want to send prospects to SF that will beat the Padres in just a few years.
But with Preller’s job on the line to produce a winning team I don’t know if he has much choice. SF is one of the only large market teams who can absorb Myers contract.
An alternative would be Eovaldi from Boston straight up for Myers, bad contract swap. Eovaldi’s shortcomings would be muted at Petco and Myers should hit well enough in Fenway.
Preller could easily trade for Price and Kluber, and then sign Ryu and Bumgarner and then he has a contender with Paddack as the 5th SP. Sick. He could even start Gore in the opening day bullpen to use him as a lockdown late innings guy if Preller’s job really was “on the line to produce a winning team”, as those moves would certainly produce a 90+ win team (health permitting). His owners gave 1-year wonder Hosmer a massive deal, why not those 4 guys?
Only another 80 million bucks a year for old starting pitchers. Yeah, ownership is signing right up for that. Preller wouldn’t have a job tomorrow.
Re Yu Darvish – have you forgotten how he was rocked in Game 7 in LA? No center field camera there- same thing with Kenley Jansen in Game 2 – in LA. Let he is without sin cast the first stone – if MLB is serious about this investigation, they should expand it because the Stros mgmt has actionable details they ready to provide to MLB on teams such as the Yankees.
No center field camera for game 7 of the World Series? That was a joke post, right Bill? There is no defense for what has been disclosed by former Astros players. After baseball nails the Astros to the wall, then they can begin looking at other teams.
ie Yankees 2019
How do you know there was no center field camera in game 7?
I love that Culberson will be back in Atlanta next season. I’m not so sure Donaldson will though. If Texas. offered Rendon 32 million a year, they will probably offer Josh 28-32 million a year for 3-4 yrs. The Braves won’t be hurting much if he’s not back.
Why do you love terrible baseball players?
Astros 2017 World Series Champions*+
* – illegally stole signs
+- Dodgers awarded 2017 title
It’s truly the only way the Dodgers will win the Series again in my lifetime and I will take it. Cannot wait another 30 plus years.
“It’s truly the only way the Dodgers will win the Series again in my lifetime…”
Or at least as long as Stan “Division Title” Kasten is in charge.
Myers and Hedges for Kluber and some cash relief
Cleveland needs to include Lindor for the Pads to even be interested in that deal.
What is Cleveland rumored to be looking for for Kluber? Prospects or MLB players?
How is their left-handed relieving? A Hader for Kluber trade has been kicking around my head.
You’re both dreaming if you think the Indians will trade Kluber for that mess,much less include Lindor.
no way anybody will take Myers or Hedges they both suck bad.
Except maybe Boston. Myers, Hedges and a AA pitching prospect for Price might do it.
Indians decline Kluber’s option before doing that
Cleveland does not need Hedges. Cleveland also will never take on a bad contract like Myers. If Kluber’s contract were a problem, Cleveland would have just declined his 2020 option. If they trade Kluber this offseason, it will be to fill a need – not for salary relief.
the red sox now are trying to get rid of contracts of players who arent of value, like price, them getting myers, a bad hitting infielder would make NO sense, he wont have a position unless hes an everyday 2nd baseman, thats the true position we have nobody for, but they arent gonna sign his contract untill 2023 i believe and not get any value in his services, they are better of keeping price, also, they arent gonna cut loose a pitcher for a fielder, they will want a pitcher back and a good hitting backup catcher, which we do not have, aswell as a first baseman, thats why i sorta thought an angels/pujols deal MIGHT happen, while hes very past his prime he can still play first base and hit a few balls into the seats, hes just nowhere near an everyday player and the angels are stuck with him
And his no-trade clause guarantees they will be stuck with him. I doubt he would leave Southern California, with its great weather and not much pressure to win, for Boston right now. Especially since the Sox aren’t guaranteed to be good.
houston is 4th most populus city in u.s. move the rays to houston!
San Jose has a higher population than San Francisco and Oakland combined, move them there! They deserve more than a A-ball team, they have pro NHL and MLS teams already FFS! The Bay Area has the money and people to EASILY support 3 teams!
san jose is in the giants’ territory. a’s move was refused.
And let us not forget this is not the only time the Astros have been accused of cheating. In 2018 Trevor Bauer claimed the Astros pitchers were using illegal methods to increase the spin rates on their pitches. His claim is way more believable now and hopefully MLB will revisit this too.
Trevor Bauer claims a lot of things
…and they turn out to be true.. a lot of the time..
I don’t know how you’d increase your spin rate without using some sort of substance.
google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2018/05/02/tr…
The Astros pitcher with an appreciable jump in spin rate was Cole. Bauer and Cole also strongly dislike each other. Just putting that out there. You can decide if that factors into your opinion on Bauer’s comments
Trevor is either too arrogant to accept he doesn’t have the secret sauce for improving his spin rate and Cole figured something else out. Or he’s right and G Cole was using something illegal.
The simplest answer is usually the right one.
Bauer is a knucklehead, but he’s an honest knucklehead.
Imagine if the Padres never traded Kluber for an Ludwick
He still wouldn’t be with padres. LOL
No one would know his name.
Kluber was thrashing around at age 24 in either AA (Akron) or AAA (Columbus) when a coach helped him develop a unique breaking pitch – not really a slider, not really a curve, lot of velocity and lateral movement. That became his bread-and-butter, making his other pitches effective.
Had he stayed with the Padres odds are that he would have never become the CY Young pitcher he became with the Indians.
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Real baseball is not rotisserie league / computer baseball. The players are people. Coaches are people. What works or doesn’t work for one guy may not for another. It’s all about developing players, and the Padres have had an awful record doing that not just under Preller, but before him.
Minor correction: Charlie does play catcher, he’s the third catcher on the team even though he hasn’t had to suit up there yet. He’s grabbed the gear a couple times just in case.
You mean baseball is using means of “encouraging results”!?! How this isnt a bigger deal that steroids is beyond me. Barry Bonds might have had better than 20/20 vision and more juice in him than a case of Capri Sun….but he STILL actually had to face the pitching. Total joke…it’s WWE level professionalism.
The Astros electronic sign stealing is far worse than what MLB punished the Braves for in signing players outside the US, so the punishment should be far more in order to prevent others from doing the same. I thought the punishment, severe as it was, fit the Braves crime. I hope MLB finds a strong punishment that fits the Astros crimes.
True – its almost as bad as fixing WS games like the Blacksox.
@Pops, nope it’s even worse than that by far.
If that’s true, I really hope we have enough material for a future sequel to FIELD OF DREAMS with the ghost of Altuve, Correa, Springer Jr. Ease His Pain | Go the Distance
Disciple? Why they be picking on Jesus? EVERYONE steals signs.
Prove it. That’s the difference. All you have is supposition. Prove it or shut up. We’re only talking about proven cheating here.
Who was in centerfield decoding the signs and why aren’t they mentioned? Why aren’t they interviewed and investigated? Is this only happening at Minute Maid park it on the road too? The rabbit hole goes much deeper than we’re led to believe. To actually think I rooted for this team at one time. What a joke.
I don’t know who you “root for” now, but there are other teams doing the same thing; evidently the Astros got the idea from a player they acquired from another organization. It isn’t only the Astros…
Prove it or shut up. We’re only talking about proven cheating here.
Than that player needs to step up and say what other team was cheating and how, otherwise it just rings hollow.
@madjack you’re absolutely right! To add, why are the corporate sponsorships still affiliated with this club? A child knows enough about marketing to not be involved with an organization like this. A slightly older child is smart enough to start lawsuits over it.
They pulled out right away for Tiger?
Preller is new Rodney Dangerfield instead of “take my wife please” it’s take Wil Myers please
…no respect.
Point of order: that is Henny Youngman’s line, not Dangerfield’s.
They ought to just fine the Astros big time. Same goes for the patriots in football. Fine them or force new ownership
Fine Houston 500 million dollars, any amount is like nothing
Technically, a management firing should be placed on the trust of the individual ownership in respect to the business and fan base. The league shouldn’t have to fire anyone, the Astros should’ve done this right away like they did with Taubman. Why move so quickly to reassure fans and do the right thing, and then suddenly stop and keep quiet all this time for the bigger issue?
Why not just start handing out scripts like WWE?
They really need to lower the boom on the Astros. If not, where does it stop? Hidden microphones in the opposing dugouts and bullpens? Why stop there? Mic up the visitor’s clubhouse too.
mics are problematic on a whole other level. it becomes a privacy issue then.
The point being is Astros don’t seem to care what is or is not legal. Cheating is cheating whether it’s illegal use cameras or steroids. There are a lot of self righteous people who go nuts about the integrity of the game during the “steroid era” who shrug off what the Astros did.
Notice how that is their line in the sand the Astros but will not comment on video footage that saw down the tunnel from their dugout tables with laptops and monitors on it which is a violation. Not to mention the emails of executives talking with scouts about stealing signs. The sad part is the Astros will claim innocence even after the hammer comes down on them when the truth is that they are guilty as sin and there is video evidence to prove it. There is even video footage of springer guessing wrong on a pitch and after the pitch stepping out of the batters box and looking right at his dog out as to say “what the hell“.
Is that video on YouTube?
15 years ago the baseball world seemed to want to explode because players were taking PED. How dare they! Integrity of the game! Now…there’s insinuation that baseball teams in a large sense are completely rigging at bats. And it’s met with really not much….cackles and call outs. We have a handful of players who have been banned from the game for LESS infractions. We have someone like Buck Weaver banned for KNOWING and Comiskey refusing to listen or take a meeting. Yet we’re talking about potential fines and some suspensions for a team…among many others…that have very potentially caused concern over the integrity of seasons and post-seasons.
Baseball is NOTHING without reasonable integrity on the field of play. Say what you like about market size and the fairness of money and free agency…but this is SHEER game fixing. We’ve banned people for less. An intrepid journalism source needs to blow this league wide.
Red_Line_9;
Point of fact is that everyone in America that followed MLB knew for 5 years that players were using PED’s. Guys were showing up in Spring Training with 15-25 pounds of additional muscle and bigger heads. Some reporters wrote about it. Most made excuses. Finally the premier MLB writer – Peter Gammons – that had been making excuses for MLB for years and saying the accusations were unfounded, suddenly turned on a dime as undeniable evidence came out, and wrote the political line when exposed – “we’ve heard enough about it, let’s move on”.
LOL
It took Congress to hold hearings which were fought by both MLB owners and the player union.
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So stealing signs is unique? I read you years ago here. You’re a sharp guy. You know darn well that there have been numerous cases of teams sticking guys with binoculars in the bleachers, and having them relay signs to hitters. Goes back to at least the 1920’s, and have popped up numerous times since.
We live in a country where the majority of its people have no sense of history, and consequently, no perspective. They get indignant over every perceived (and often manufactured) infraction of unwritten rules. Often resulting in a mob mentality that demands those innocently framed are hanged and butchered for all to see.
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I’m waiting for MLB’s investigation to complete. I guarantee you that no matter what is found and whether penalties are assessed or not, sign stealing will continue. Electronics are simply too advanced, with new breakthroughs literally being rolled out each week, and there’s too much money in the sport.
5 years? Try 10-15. I know that one for fact. Teams knew…teams supplied them.
If the Astros are found guilty, here a punishment idea.
Take away their first three rounds of draft picks in 2020. Their first two rounds of draft picks in 2021. Their first round of picks in 2022. A total of six rounds of picks taken away.
And a big, nasty fine ($5MM) and a fine for every player & coach ($50K). Hinch and Luhnow should be out of the sport for at least two years.
Not going to happen. Max fine ever is $2 million. That is probably what they will get plus lose a 1st rounder this coming season.. The GM and manager will get a hand slap suspension in spring training and and a small fine. .
Then we will move on since what they did and almost every other team in baseball did is not possible today.
Death penalty: dissolve the franchise and give their assets to the other teams, fire and blackball all staff, fine Crane a trillion dollars and burn Enron Field to the ground. Then, nuke the place from orbit…gotta be sure.
Thats funny. Stupid, but funny.
Tip of they day…don’t buy Enron stock.
Dear Apologetic Astros fans,
PLEASE STOP MAKING IGNORANT BLANKET EXCUSES FOR BLATANT CHEATING. IT MAKES ALL ASTROS FANS SEEM DUMB AND IGNORANT. HOLD YOUR OWN TEAM ACCOUNTABLE FOR CHEATING. STOP SAYING EVERY TEAM DOES IT. STOP SAYING IT DIDNT HAVE AN EFFECT. STOP SAYING THINGS LIKE “WELL THEY STILL LOST AT HOME”.
THEY CHEATED. THEY WON A WORLD SERIES IN A YEAR THAT THEY WERE CHEATING.
ACCEPT IT.
I am a Angels fan and want to see us beat them every game and still know that the cheating was no more blatant than what the Red Sox god caught doing that same year with the smart watch. That the Yankees got caught using in the playoffs that same year.
The Astros hit worse at home than on the road. There was no benefit that can be demonstrated. I watched every video of every at bat that supposedly proves they cheated and they hit about .200 in those at bats. There was no benefit in those at bats that can be proven.
Find your caps lock. Stop being a complete okole.
One of the alleged ring leaders, Carlos Beltran, hit so poorly that year that the second half he barely played.
I ain’t sayin’ it didn’t help them, but I do question how much.
Exactly…
If you cheat and it doesn’t help you that much it’s no longer cheating, right?
Rangers are better off signing Franco and Shaw , let them both compete for the starting position and throw the other one on the bench
The Astros claim that what they did is the norm for the industry seems like it’s just about the likeliest defense they can make. But when you get caught you have to be able to prove that’s the case. The writer did mention one wittness claiming this is true but us readers really don’t know anything more than SOMEONE said this. We dont know how credible he or she is or if the statement this person made had any evidence.
At first I was annoyed that the Astros wouldn’t just except responsibility but then I thought about how that turned out for the Braves. When they were investigated, they excepted responsibility and completely cooperated and complied with MLB and the comissioner still came down on them like a sledge hammer. You could see that the MLB wasn’t just discipling the Braves for their actions. They dealt out a really harsh punishment to set an example. So if that’s what the Astros have to look forward to if they play dead then hey, why not give some push back? Why not defend yourselves?
You bring up valid points but MLB reported that Mike Fiers came forward I’m his own volition to report the cheating scandal. I agree, probably most, if not all, MLB teams do some type of rule-breaking as an industry standard. But, it seems they are peeved at this one because it is beyond the scope of the industry standard.
It’s analogous to pitchers and line tar. Many use it and it’s a non-issue because it’s an industry-wise issue, but when Pineda came out after bathing in it, he was dealt with. Only they know what happened and I think they’re trying their best to mitigate damage. MLB is going to castrate them and the team will feel the effects of this for a long time, in many MLB analysts opinions.
Mike Fiers only came forward after he had reported it to his team when they were going to play the Astros.
I dont know that we disagree. The force of my point is, why shouldn’t the Astros fight this if they know they’re going to get crucified whether they cooperate or not? Im also thinking that you used pine tar as an analogy and not intended to be a perfectly similar situation? Because the Astros violation goes further than one player.
**autocorrect on my phone. Should read pine tar, obviously they’re not cheating with line tar……….yet
Read the article. The Astros argument is that at the time it was not beyond the industry standard. The camera was already there in all stadiums. All they did is ask for a live feed which was not against the rules at the time.
Today no team can do that because there are no live feeds anywhere in the stadium. They are all on an 8 second delay just like your TV at home.
At this point, the Astro’s stance boils down to, “okay fine we did it, but so was everyone else!” This is pretty much a full 180 from their smug denials throughout the years. It also is comparable to an argument where big industries defend against negligence by arguing “compliance with current industry standard.” Such argument does not hold water. To me, this is no more than an admission of wrongdoing. I have no specific suggestion of punishment, but I think it should be fitted to harm them over the next few years. I would hate to see them get slapped at the upper level and use it as an excuse to tank. That is why I do agree with international spending restrictions as well as draft-related punishment on top of management suspensions.
I think the Astros are right about not having installed a purpose built camera, but that just makes it all worse. There’s no reason to have a special feed. A live feed (preferably but not even neccesarily in HD) is all you need. I bet half the teams in baseball do it, and I bet those half are made up overwhelmingly of the teams with seemingly the best “luck” in recent seasons. If there aren’t receivers in helmets going click-click when an off speed is coming, I’d be shocked.
San Diego should trade Hedges to the Angels
If the Astro’s are found guilty (there isn’t much doubt there) the punishment has to be huge.
Front Office from GM on down and all coaching personnel from those seasons get a minimum one year ban,doesn’t matter where they are they get the ban.The really egregious offenders should get even more severe bans.
Astros forfeit all picks in the June draft and all their international money for 2020 and 2021.
This is the line in the sand that can’t be crossed and the Astros ran right by it, banging on a can and winning a World Series and giving everyone else the bird.
MLB has to make it hurt so much no other team would dream of doing it ,because revisiting this in the future will weaken the appeal of the game to all fans..
Astros are going to get a $2 million fine and lose a draft pick or two. Luhnow and Hinch will get a suspension and a small fine. $50k maybe. Thats its
The bigger question is whether other teams that have been caught like the Yankees will also get penalties?
George Steinbrenner was BANNED simply sending a private investigator after Dave Winfield. Good lord….if the front office receives less than a one year ban itll be atrocious. This type of thing is the integrity of the game on the field. It needs to be dealt with just as gambling would be. These front office guys dont have a union to help them them…bust them hard.
How could any major League contract offer not be better than a minor league deal from the Braves? Unless (which is kind of seems like is the case) the Braves are technically signing him to a minor league contract in order to just utilize the 40-man spot until Spring Training ends and then have essentially guaranteed him a major League roster spot after that. If not that just doesn’t make sense – as of course ANY major League deal would be preferable to a situation where he would wind up in the minors regardless of what team it were on.
It could be that Braves AAA team is very close to his home.
Braves should save the money and sign Maikel Franco to play 3B. He’d come so much more cheaply, and he is more than capable of batting .260ish with 25-30 HR. His range doesn’t match other 3B of more renown, but he catches what’s hit to him. If the Braves wanna spend big on a 3B, wait two years and go after Arenado.
No. Look at his splits, Arenado is not nearly as good on the road.
Regardless, it does seem that the investigation is progressing and disciple of some sort seems likely.
Proofreading is crucial.
Texans are gay
I’ll take your word for it.
Heyman: “a deal for Kluber before spring training is unlikely”
Next day: “Kluber traded to Texas”