The second (or perhaps third) prong of the Mookie Betts blockbuster involved a cross-town swap between the Dodgers and Angels. But when the first iteration of the Betts agreement became bogged down in health concerns and re-negotiations, the intra-LA deal fell apart.
Accordingly, as things stand, the Dodgers still employ outfielder Joc Pederson and swingman Ross Stripling — two rather talented players — along with prospect Andy Pages. And intriguing young infielder Luis Rengifo remains with the Halos, along with whatever other players would’ve been included.
In theory, there’s nothing stopping the teams from resurrecting this agreement. It arguably would suit the Dodgers even better now, as the final version of the Betts swap cost the team an upper-level infielder and brought in a high-ceiling swingman with some MLB experience to go with veteran starter David Price. Adding Rengifo while parting with Stripling would restore much of the prior balance in the Dodgers’ roster situation. While Pederson is hardly extraneous now that Betts is on hand, his role obviously won’t be as robust.
Given the nature of the termination of talks, though, a revival doesn’t seem likely. Per Fabian Ardaya of The Athletic (subscription link), Angels owner Arte Moreno personally halted the prospective agreement as uncertainty lingered. His specific intentions aren’t known entirely, though as Ardaya writes, he has certainly operated with vigor and urgency of late after a string of disappointing seasons.
It’s interesting to wonder what could come next. For the Angels, there’s obviously a desire to add a rotation piece and perhaps pick up some more offense. And the club is willing to part with Rengifo in the right circumstances. It stands to reason that the Halos will continue working the phone lines even as Spring Training opens. Some rather notable candidates remain available, at least in theory, though at this point teams have likely already made their prices known.
And what of the Dodgers, who had notified Pederson that he was being sent out to Anaheim? These two veterans are still quite useful but will now enter uncertain situations with the knowledge they had been deemed expendable. No doubt the club would rather shed some salary and cash them both in for a younger, more flexible asset — as had been the plan when this deal came together. It’s possible the team will have shifting interest in talks involving these players. The ultimate Betts deal involved different pieces than had been expected. No doubt the Dodgers will be interested in any scenario that conveys long-term value and roster flexibility.
Whether there’s more action to come over the coming weeks is anyone’s guess. But the potential energy for movement is undeniable.
No one likes tomatos
First comment!!!
thats it fort pitt
First reply!!!
skyyalpha
We’re done here folks, let’s wrap it up and go home.
martras
I like tomatoes. I want to like the pink brandywine the best, but honestly, the cherokee purple is just so friggen good.
nymetsking
Tomatoes suck. Who wants to eat little pink bicycle tires?
TrueOutcomeFan
Fred Wilpon
Col. Taylor
Oh oh my…. friend you need to try heirloom/ home grown tomato
looiebelongsinthehall
It must be the way you slice them. Try the other way…
bige69
Cherokee purples are a gift from the heavens
TripleA
Gosh you are awesome. If I only I were first my life would be so complete.
wordonthestreet
You were not first as you did not actually make a comment
mcslims
This provided no additional details.
nymetsking
This provided no additional insight.
Rangers29
This provided no additional insight (2).
TripleA
This was really insightful.
phillyballers
Out of sight, out of mind.
OtisSnord
Blind and crazy
jrjalr
This provided no nutritional value
macstruts
Angels owner Arte Moreno personally halted the prospective agreement as uncertainty lingered
All American Johnsonville Dogs
Angels owner arte Moreno said F this deal due to not knowing wtf was going on.
mannyl101
Agree
Eatdust666
The Angels didn’t really need Pederson anyway.
TripleA
Hahahahah. Yeah. Cause they are real contenders.
TripleA
Hahahahah. Yeah. Cause they are real contenders.
Sabermetric Acolyte
Those grapes must be sour since I can’t have them?
EasternLeagueVeteran
Turn them into Vinegar (Bend Mizell)
RedFeather
Wondering if the Cardinals would entertain a trade?
adamsessler
Lol. The Angels need all the help they can get. If Joc was on the Angels, he would’ve finished 2nd in HR, 2nd in SLG, 2nd in OPS, 3rd in WAR. Statstically, Joc would’ve been the Angel’s best hitter not named Mike Trout.
Oh, & Stripling, he would’ve been the Angels’ ace last year. His ERA in 15 stars last season (3.60) was almost a full run lower than any Angels SP who started at least 3 games. The closest Angels SP would be Skaggs (RIP) who had an ERA of 4.29 & Canning’s 4.58.
Moreno should be proud of himself… Calling off a trade that makes absolute baseball sense b/c he got impatient & irritated. Way to cut off your nose to spite your face…
EasternLeagueVeteran
Peterson doesn’t have to be a platoon player. All through the minors and AAA he did NOT exhibit Splits differential the way everyone thinks. If given more ABs against lefties he would hit then better. It is just the way Dave Roberts manages him, and who said Dave Roberts has made you he right decisions which got them a WS title. Look up his minors splits. You’ll see
macstruts
Where is Pederson going to play? If it was with the Angels, the Answer would be, he’ll play RF, against RH pitcher for about a month. Then he’ll play very rarely.
adamsessler
“Then he’ll play rarely” b/c…why? Jo Adell?
Adell is only 20 yrs. old & not ready to contribute in the bigs. His 2019 batting line .289/.359/.475/.834 isn’t bad, but it’s also not great, esp. considering that this line was primarily bolstered by his AA numbers, while his AAA numbers are very mediocre. Plus, his 94 Ks in 305 ABs is alarming & a pretty good indication he isn’t ready to make the jump yet.
The Angels finished below-AL & MLB average in runs, SLG, & OPS, & w/ a record of 72-90. For anyone to say that they don’t need a guy who hit 36 HR w/ a .538 SLG & .876 OPS is ridiculous.
Ejemp2006
You assume Upton will be healthy?
macstruts
This is not about the Angels being better with Pederson. That’s not the discussion.
Dodger fan or Angel fan? How many ABs did Lux get in the PCL? What about Bellinger? How many ABs did Trout get at AAA?
You don’t move a top rated prospect to the PCL for half a season. Adell is not going to stay in the PCL for long. It’s not how you groom prospects.
If you want to mess Adell up, leave him in the PCL for three months. Not to mention, the odds of him not hitting in the PCL are extremely low. Ward deserves a shot at being the 4th outfielder.
If Pederson was free, then fine, I’d have him play RF for a month. But he’s not free.
macstruts
You assume a 32 year old who averaged 150 games who had a toe injury which led to a knee injury is not going to be healthy?
Sept 13th.
“The left fielder will receive a platelet-rich plasma injection next week to address patellar tendinitis in his right knee. He is expected to make a full recovery within six weeks.”
So, if there was issue, they would have found the issue by Halloween.
vtadave
Let’s see. Pederson against LHP:
2013 in AA – .568 OPS
2014 in AAA – he lkilled them – 1.020 OPS
As a big leaguer – .572 OPS
Which one is the outlier?
MrAngelFan
@adamsessler You never know how a player will transition from the minors to the majors. Some are great in the minors but can’t hit once they get up to the show. Some are average in the minors and are better in the majors. Adell’s numbers compare favorably to Tatis Jr. Tatis was great for half a season in the majors. Yes, Tatis and Adell strike out a lot. . It seems to be less of a concern in today’s game then 20 years ago.
Yes, the Angels lineup was average last year . All their most productive hitters missed significant portions of the season, Trout, Simmons, Ohtani, and Upton. They added Rendon, which is one of the most productive hitters last season. He will help the Angels score runs.. Adell has potential to be great, Joc simply does not. Trout is entering his prime years. The Angels would be better served to get Adell exposure to major league pitching sooner rather than later. If Joc could play first base, I would take him in a heart beat, but he cannot.
adamsessler
It’s not Joc’s potential vs. Adell’s. It’s Joc & Stripling v. Rengifo & other lower level prospects.
1. Adell WILL start the season in the minors. He only hit .264/.321/..355 in AAA last seasons, which suggests he could use a little more seasoning. Plus, the Angels would likely want to keep his MLB service time down if they can. Even if they do bring Adell up, they could bring him up slowly like the Dodgers did w/ Verdugo. Have Adell be the Angel’s 4th OF, be Joc’s RH platoon partner. There’s no reason to rush him to be the everyday RF.
2. Joc’s a 1-yr. rental. If things work out w/ Adell, then they let Joc walk at the end of the yr., & the Angels are satisfied w/ a full season of Joc & 3 seasons of Stripling in exchange for a package low-level prospects. Along those same lines, we’re not talking about potential going forward, we’re talking about production next yr. Adell may have more upside going forward, but Joc will almost definitely be the better player next yr.; it’s unlikely that Adell is going to hit 30+ HR, .538 SLG, or .876 OPS next yr.
3. Upton was injured most of last season, he is now 32 yrs. old, & is coming off the worst season of his career. Who is to say that he is going to be the same player that he was? Assuming that he does come back, what the harm in having depth? As you mentioned, all the Angels’ best hitters were dogged by injuries last season. What’s the harm in having a guy who is durable, young, & good for 30+ HRs a yr. on your roster.
4. Then there’s Stripling. The only reason he’s not an everyday MLB starter is b/c the Dodgers’ rotation has been so good (& their bullpen’s been spotty). On the Angels’ pitiful rotation, Stripling would’ve been the team’s #1 or at worst #2 starter last year.
The bottom line is that this deal was a great one for the Angels. It was completely lopsided in terms of talent & production, b/c the Dodgers were motivated by everything other than talent & production. For Arte to cancel the deal b/c he was hot-headed & impatient was simply moronic & goes to show why the Angels have been mostly mediocre under his ownership.
Bil522
If Adell could only slug .355 in the 2019 PCL there is almost no way he will be a any kind of slugger.
Koamalu
If Joc was on the Angels he would have been behind Trout, Rendon, and Upton on offense and would have only played 100-110 games. He would only be there as a place holder for Adell.
Stripling would have been a number 4 starter. There is a reason that he never got more than 21 starts. Injuries and ineffectiveness after 5 IP.
towinagain
Padres and Dodgers match up in this one. Pads need a lefty in Pederson and have a plethora of bulpen arms…hmmm Kirby Yates anyone?
burnt_reynolds
Wait, wait, wait… surely you’re not implying that SD would part with Kirby for Joc straight up… are you??
Javia
Why not? All the Dodgers would have to do is take Will Myers too.
terry g
hahaha
Psychguy
Indians need a talented major ready outfielder… Dodgers like Clevenger, could be the start of a bromance.
antibelt
Lol. One year of Pederson for Clevenger? Gtfoh
Psychguy
Clearly. I guess I have to spell it out. No Joc straight up for Clevenger would not get it done.
mathblaster
Clevinger*
A top 10 SP in the majors who just entered 1st arb year…every team would want him…
DarkSide830
that’s some odd “spelling”
Michaelchavez22
I like where your head is David722. I thought the same thing but added maybe Santana, Alvarez or Ferguson with Joc. If the Dodgers can offload Pollack and some of his $, I’d be happy with that.
rememberthecoop
Of course not. Indians would have to throw in Shane Bieber too.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
You could actually make a reasonable argument that Clevinger should bring more value to the Indians than Lindor given salaries and length of control remaining.
Cleveland is a completely logical spot for Joc, except for one thing: Cheapo Dolan has mandated for the past two years (and for two more) that they cut payroll by $23 million to buyout Sherman’s stake in the team.
ray714
You pollock haters make me laugh so hard. Dodgers aren’t shopping him and never were.
macstruts
A starting point would by Pederson and Lux. The Indians wanted Adell for Cleveninger.
Deleted Userrr
Joc wouldn’t even be in a Clevinger trade. If the Indians trade Clevinger it means their window has slammed shut. Loudly. So they would have no interest in a one year rental. Negative interest even.
mannyl101
I would love that! But….Cleveland is not a good trading partner! They want more & give less attitude! And we all know one for one is not an option! Could be a bigger deal!
redmatt
I, too, love exclamation marks!
Col. Taylor
THEY GO GREAT WITH ALL CAPS TOO!!
kdub53
LOOOOUUUDDD NOOIIISES!!!
jrjalr
I prefer question marks?
MrAngelFan
Weirdos.
outinleftfield
I’m sure the Dodgers could get Clevinger as long as the sent May and Gray along with Pederson. Pederson is just a platoon OF so he doesn’t provide much value.
Deleted Userrr
Would provide no value to the Indians because he’s a rental.
RootedInOakland
Renigfo would def be a solid depth piece for the Dodgers but this trade never made sense to me, might as well go all in on this Mookie season which should mean keeping the Joc/Pollock platoon one more year
Buzzed Capra
Yeah they were giving away Joc and Stripling.
NewYorkSoxFan
Dodgers were getting ripped off anyway… I’m sure they can find a better deal… Time is ticking though
OtisSnord
Nobody can say anything categorically about who was getting what kind of deal, because nobody knows what prospects the Dodgers were getting back.
adamsessler
Rengifo was the key part the Dodgers were getting back. That’s not saying much…
TrumpisMyGawd
We knew what wasn’t coming back so that told us more than enough.
bkbkbkbk
As a fan I love his chutzpah, but this was a terrible hill to die on. It’s not like we needed the prospect capital for another deal. I hope they re-engage for both teams sake.
paulslc
Interesting way to spell petulance
TrumpisMyGawd
I’ll buy an “o” for $1.
Rangers29
(Jon Daniels holding up Commisioner’s trophy at the end of the WS)
“I want to thank Arte Moreno for not trading for N.L MVP Joc Pederson, and CY Young winner Ross Stripling.” -Jon Daniels 2020 WS
3Men&ABibee
Like in MLB the show? Or OOTP? Because only in a fictional world is that possible. Rangers.. World Series.. 2020. That’s great bro. You made the joke of the year finals with Boston fans for pretending they’re not cheating *******. Kudos to you Rangers29
TrumpisMyGawd
That’s predicated on Jon getting fired and being another former GM added to LA front office. I think they’ll fire Preller and Daniels on consecutive days and fans of both LA teams will cry for what they had.
JustCheckingIn
Who wants to tell him that neither the rangers or padres play in Los Angeles?
Anyone?
TrumpisMyGawd
Read harder and then give it a good think but I’m putting a five minute timer on you.
Tom Healey
Misleading headline
DarkSide830
honestly need to know who else LAA would have given up
OtisSnord
Exactly!
danlwebb5
Extend and keep Joc.
BlueSkies_LA
Pederson had to know he was on the trading block long before he was notified of the trade being in place so that isn’t the issue. I also don’t believe the thinking that Moreno bailed on the deal because of how long it was taking to complete the Twins-Red Sox leg. The Angels canceled after that trade was resolved so saying it was connected makes little sense. I suspect it fell apart after the Pederson arbitration hearing. It make a lot more sense to assume that Friedman used his lower salary as leverage for return on the deal and Moreno balked at giving up more.
Cam
You’ll do everything to try and paint Friedman as a problem, won’t you?
Besides pure speculation, what are you basing that on?
BlueSkies_LA
Sigh. Yes it’s a speculation, nobody has anything but speculation to offer. You don’t have any explanation to offer at all, do you?
This seems to be clear to others but since isn’t to you, my speculation is based on the timing. It makes no sense for the reason to be the length of time it took to get the Dodgers-Twins-Red Sox deal to be finalized, because (wait for it…) the Angels bailed out after it was finalized. So that explanation seems far-fetched. When did they actually pull out…? Hmm, maybe there’s support for speculation around what happened right before.
TrumpisMyGawd
The deal — …— was dead early Sunday afternoon even before the Dodgers had re-agreed to a pair of amended trades with the Red Sox (for Mookie Betts and David Price) and the Twins (for prospect Brusdar Graterol, outfield prospect Luke Raley and the No. 67 overall pick in the 2020 MLB Draft).
By Fabian Ardaya Feb 10, 2020
BlueSkies_LA
The revised trade with the Red Sox was also announced on Sunday. If Ardaya has information suggesting that the Angels killed the deal only minutes or hours before the new trade was announced then maybe he should come out with it. Either way it’s difficult to imagine that the Dodgers were not keeping the Angels at least generally aware of progress. I mean, we were able to read it about here, right? Are we to believe the Angels were less informed than MLBTR readers? Pederson lost his arbitration hearing on Friday, BTW, so the reasoning that it changed the negotiations with the Angels on the return for him still stands
TrumpisMyGawd
If anything, Friedman has very good reason to believe that Arturo doesn’t care about value whatsoever.
Everyone knew Joc was going to arb and it is hard to see the two GM’s not having already taken that into account, particularly since this deal has ostensibly little to do with acquiring like value and a lot to do with shedding salary.
BlueSkies_LA
Of course they both knew and they also knew his value in a trade would be higher if the arbitrator ruled for the team. What we don’t know is what conversations occurred between the teams after that ruling came down but we can easily imagine it was about the return to the Dodgers. The deal for them was about reducing payroll but it was also about the return. The Dodgers aren’t giving these players away nor should the be.
restingmitchface
Angels pulled out, per Ken Rosenthal.
rememberthecoop
On time, hopefully. Arte and Joe are much too old to be dads again.
angelsinthetroutfield
Agreed. At least that scenario follows some form of logic. LAD likely wanted something equal to a $2.5m increase in prospect capital from LAA. Arte probably pulled the plug due to that
BlueSkies_LA
Logic doesn’t buy a whole lot around here. If logic leads to criticizing a sacred person, the resident Round Heads will come after you for spreading apostasy.
Cam
It’s not logic when it’s based around consistent pessimism on your part. You’re not trying to present a neutral point – you’re trying to present a point built by your pre-existing bias, which has been here for all to see for a very long time.
You know this, I know this. And to be completely honest, the Dodgers don’t need a part-time fan like yourself, who brings more negativity towards the team than anything else.
BlueSkies_LA
You’re so full of baloney you should open a deli. If you read what I wrote (I know, a real challenge in your case) you’d see I didn’t “blame” Friedman. I assumed he was after maximizing the return, which he should be. But you know, the other side can always say no, even to the Miracle Worker. Negativity, man you should know about that, because you see it everywhere you look, and you find it even when it isn’t there. This Dodger season ticket holder thinks you are about the saddest excuse for a fan he’s ever seen, and that’s saying a lot.
JustCheckingIn
Or Arte is a hot head who doesn’t like to play second fiddle
Whattt!?!? That’s what the article implies. Omg it’s not Friedman! The world won’t end
Blue skies, you’re a joke of a fan
JustCheckingIn
You conspiracy theorists are f’n annoying. You know NOTHING about how Friedman works
But he produces a winner for you every year. So you complain! Go away
Rich Hill’s Elbow
While it may be a discount version of Stripling/Pederson, but would the Angels be interested in Cave/Dobnak of the Twins. Not sure who’d they’d get in return, but at the very least Sandoval is interesting arm to consider.
Who knows, maybe Eppler would be willing to deal Middleton, although that’d definitely mean the Twins would have to include another arm.
Finlander
Twins pass on reliever Middleton coming off TJ, nerve damage, and historical lack of control who has lost 5 mph.
Richs
I would like to see Nats get Pederson. This would be for 1 year. There current 4th or 5th OF Andrew Stevenson cannot hit and is only there for defensive purposes. Joc could replace some of Rendon offensive numbers.
bbatardo
I imagine if the Angels REALLY liked the deal they would be able to sway the owner.
Mr.Ward14
Smh Arte needs to go. He has done nothing to better this franchise as a competitive/winning organization. Putting butts in the seats is all he cares about.
He has made horrible moves (Wells, Mathews Jr, Hamilton, Pujols) and interfered in baseball operations as if he knows what he’s doing (which he clearly doesn’t).
This trade would’ve made the Angels a solid favorite in the West, instead we fall right back to mediocrity, a place Arte is all too familiar with.
Also, what do you think Trout and Rendon are thinking right now? Not to mention future FA. Do people really wanna play for an inept owner like Arte Moreno??
restingmitchface
Rendon wants to avoid the Hollywood style. Meanwhile, his new diva of an owner just cost Rendon some valuable new teammates.
angelsinthetroutfield
He’s done nothing! Except open the checkbook countless times for star level players. But apart from that NOTHING!!!
Mr.Ward14
Yeah, open the check book for expensive players who did absolutely nothing to help the team, except handcuff us financially for years.
Also, he missed on players like Beltre, resigning Hunter and Greinke etc Arte May open his wallet, but it never helps the team. He’s an idiot
angelsinthetroutfield
Hindsight is 20-20, the fact that he’s willing to spend in an attempt to make the team better should not be held against him. Hamilton/Pujols/Wilson were all signed with intentions on winning. Trout/Rendon/Upton are the next wave. Let’s hope they work out favorably.
JustCheckingIn
Well he actually opened the books for stars against baseball ops suggestions, then was shocked it didn’t work out
Let’s tell the real facts
Vin Scully
Moreno is an idiot. I am glad LA didn’t do the trade as described. It was selling low on Stripling and Joc.
NyyfaninLAA land
Well obviously there would have been added parts coming from the Angels. here. Brandon Marsh is my guess here – top 100 prospect plays CF, which Angels don’t likely need (though he could move) given Superman in CF for 10 more years. And there may have been more – speculation was 2 LAA prospects.
LAD wasn’t trading a power bat OF (even if a Platoon) and a likely SP who would have been perhaps the Angels #2 for a utility IF / possible 2B..
macstruts
“Moreno is an idiot.” Oh brother. Anyone who thinks Moreno is an idiot is an idiot.
Moreno is an “odd duck”, but he’s a man of integrity, which makes him better than most of the owners out there. He opens his checkbook, which makes him better than most of the owners.
Put it all together, that makes him one of the better owners in baseball.
Buzzed Capra
Consider the source.
Vizionaire
have earned a billion let alone billions from nothing? you are a moron!
Finlander
Pulling out the checkbook is not being an idiot. But, writing the check out to the wrong person…well…
Rangers29
Trade proposal: Dodgers / Rangers
Rangers get: Pederson, White, and Stripling
Dodgers get: 5 million, Eli White, Scott Heineman, and Kiner-falefa.
DarkSide830
Mitch or Tyler White?
Rangers29
Tyler
chino31
No, Vanna
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
The Dodgers politely say no thank you to that package. The Dodgers have the Heinemman and White skill sets already in their system, and continuing to add to the backlog makes no sense, especially since the Dodgers particularly have higher upside than the two mentioned, unless it’s impact.
Rengifo was interesting because of his plus D, ability to Switch, and some of the pretty impressive underlying numbers at 22. Dodgers would realistically be a bit better off trimming the depth a bit, as there are a handful of guys with potential niche careers, but no real shot to stick on this roster or any in the close future.
NyyfaninLAA land
Aside from this deal being laughable (and you likely / hopefully were joking) I’m not sure a deal could even be structured in this way. Think money changing hands (except for small deals / PTBNL or cash) has to be for salary offsets, not bribes.
Bluemarlin528
Way to go Artie, let personal feelings get in the way adding to your team. Stripling would have been the Halos opening day starter and would’ve saved 1.75 mil on Jocs arb.
Its rather apparent that Billy Eppler is a puppet.
macstruts
I would like for the Angels to acquire Stripling even if it means acquiring Pederson.
Pederson is an expensive luxury, Stripling is necessary.
NyyfaninLAA land
What? Pederson is a 3 WAR player making under $8 million. And a lefty bat in a lineup with little of that (don’t give me flukey LaStella or Goodwin as options). That he’s a FA after this is perhaps an even better opportunity for them as they could get a comp pick (which has more future value than his salary) if he has another good year or shows he’s learning to hit lefties., and they have Adell coming.
I agree Stripling is also a very good addition and a deal just for him would also be a good thing. If Arte indeed balked (because playing second fiddle to the Dodgers priorities?) that is a sad state of affairs.
macstruts
Don’t give you Goodwin or LeStella? Am I not suppose to give you Adell either? If the Angels wanted a 4th outfielder, they could have acquired one on the free agent market.
Pederson is a platoon 3rd outfielder. But on this team, he’s a fourth outfielder. That makes him a luxury.
Funny thing though, I can’t remember one person advocating the Angels acquire a 4th outfielder all off-season. But now all of a sudden they need one.
itsgood2btheking
@macstruts
Pederson is a platoon OF but based on production he’d be the angels 2nd most productive OF. He put up 3.3 bWAR in 450 AB’s last yr and there’s no reason to believe he’d put up significantly less with the angels.
macstruts
The fact of the matter is the Angels have a projected outfield for the next two years. I don’t see that changing.
Offensively, they are set. They are not going to bring anyone to replace Pujols or Upton.
The Angels didn’t need Pederson. After Adell gets here, Pederson is not going to play. Adell is not going to sit at AAA, and he’s not gong to sit in the big leagues. The Angels are going to give Adell every opportunity. And those thinking he’s going to play for Upton are crazy.
TrumpisMyGawd
Joc’s had wRC+ of 139 and 137 vs RHP the past two years. He has a 2020 like that, he’s your best player against RHP not named Mike Trout.
macstruts
Manila, So What?
He’s not going to play for Upton who has 72 million on his contract. He’s not going to play for Trout, and he’s not going to play for Adell who the Angels wouldn’t trade for Clevinger.
He’s be the best hitting 4th outfielder in baseball, but he’d still be a 4th outfielder.
Mr.Ward14
Yeah, you’re right, the Angels don’t need a 264/36 RF when they have Goodwin. *eyeroll*
While Adell struggles in triple A, and Goodwin struggles against LHP, I’m sure you’ll be wishing we had Joc at leadoff playing RF.
macstruts
Do you people make this up as you go along?
1) Goodwin hits LH just as well as he hits RH. 815 OPS+ last year. 842 lifetime.
2) No one with a clue would leave a #2 prospect down in AAA for much more than 200 ABs. NO ONE!!!
3) You think Adell is going to struggle in the PCL where Taylor Ward hits 306/527/584? Who for the first month of the year, will be the teams 4th outfielder.
4) If you want to screw up a prospect, give him 500 ABs in the PCL.
OtisSnord
In order to get a comp pick for Joc, they’d have to give him a $17 million qualifying offer. Which would be insane.
Koamalu
La Stella – .272/.345/.397/.743
Goodwin – .255/.320/.461/.782
These guys are a steady presence at the plate. Not starters, but steady LHB.
Pederson would be a great rental in RF. A definite upgrade over Goodwin. Maybe as much as 2 WAR better. He is not going to be offered a QO by any team. The QO will be $19 million or more in 2020 so he would take it immediately. It would represent a $12+ million raise for him.
Stripling has never went past 21 starts in a season and averages over 2 DL/IL visits per year. Good when healthy but never pitched a full season. .He would have been a nice fill in until Ohtani is ready.
Since the 2 prospects coming from the Angels have never been named, we don’t know who the Dodgers were asking for. Neither Pederson or Stripling are worth a high level prospect. We have read here that the Angels were not willing to part with Adell, Marsh, Adams, Jackson, Knowles, Soriano, or Paris as part of this deal. Ramirez and Vera are probably off the table also.
Not much in the way of new information in this article, so nothing we can add to why Arte said no.
adamsessler
The Angels finished 72-90 last season. For anyone to say that they couldn’t use Stripling or Pederson is just nonsensical.
Stripling is not injury-prone, esp. compared to the Angels’ pitching staff. He had 1 stint on the 10-day DL b/c of a toe injury in 2017, & another stint on the 10-day DL b/c of a strained neck in 2018. That’s it. That’s not much.
Stripling seems like he doesn’t pitch a full season b/c he’s bounced back & forth from the rotation to the bullpen, largely b/c the Dodgers’ rotation is so good. The Angels have never had that issue, so it wouldn’t be a problem for Stripling there. He made 21 starts in 2018, & only 21 b/c he wasn’t a starter until May. If he began the season as a SP, he’d likely have started 25+ games that yr.
He started 15 games last yr., & that number isn’t low b/c of injuries, but b/c he was pitching out of the bullpen most of the yr. Those 15 starts are only 3 starts less than the Angels’ team leader, Heaney, who had 18. In those 15 starts, Stripling’s ERA was 3.60, which would’ve far & away the best ERA for any SP on the Angels. He wouldn’t just be “a nice fill in until Ohtani is ready…” He’d be the 2nd, or at worst, 3rd starter in the rotation. After Ohtani & maybe Heany, assuming both are healthy (not a safe assumption) the Angels rotation is hot garbage.
macstruts
Of course the Angels could use Stripling. And for the first few weeks of the season, they could use Pederson.
But we still don’t know what they would have cost.
adamsessler
“…for the first few weeks of the season, they could use Pederson.”
Lol. The Dodgers won 106 games last season & used Pederson in 149 games to the tune of 450 ABs. The Angels won 72 games & were below-league average in SLG, OPS, runs & HR. I’m sure the Angels could use him for more than a few weeks of next season.
Upton is aging, coming off the worst season of his career, & an injury plagued season.
Jo Adell is only 21 yrs. old, was mediocre in AAA last season, & struck out 94 in 305 ABs.
Pederson is a reliable slugger who has hit 25 or more HR in 4 of the last 5 seasons. He’s reduced his K-rate every yr., & while he doesn’t hit for average, he walks enough to keep his OBP decent. If he were on the Angels last season, he’d have been the 2nd best hitter on the team, despite the fact he doesn’t hit lefties…
As for the package in return, Rengifo was the centerpiece in the package to the Dodgers. That’s not much…
macstruts
This just isn’t sinking in, is it?
Fletcher had a 3.4 WAR last year. Would you trade for him and bench Lux?
There is no guarantee Lux is ready. Lux only hit 240 last year. He only had 200 ABs at AAA. Maybe you want to give him more ABs in the PCL to make sure.
Baseball prospectus had Adell the #2 prospect last year. Lux wasn’t in their top 100.
IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK ADELL WILL DO!!!!! He’s going to be up. No one keeps great prospects in PCL for more than a couple months. There is a much greater chance Lux tanks in LA than Adell will in AAA… Then what?
Adell is coming up. Period. And he’s going to play.
Is it sinking in yet?
JustCheckingIn
God you’re dense
Lux also showed elite plate discipline and power, neither of which Adell has shown in AAA
Sure, Adell will smell the majors in 2020. But to turn away an 850+ OPS bat because you like the 21 year old with a 34% K rate May be ready at some point, is really f’n dumb
The intelligent thing would be to not rush Adell and have him improve his plate discipline. 35% K rate in AAA is easily 40% + in the majors. You really think that’s playable? Cmon you homer
Lux had an OPS over 1.100 in AAA. Adell was under 900. You’re drunk if you think they’re comparable
macstruts
CommonSense… you have none.
I can’t spell this out any more than I already have and you are so dense you don’t understand.
Adell is not staying in the PCL. PERIOD!!!!!!!!! So what are you going to do with him?
Your answer seems to be… Keep him in the PCL.
And I keep coming back with star prospects don’t spend months in the PCL.
And you keep saying… keep him in the PCL.
As simply as I can say… ADELL IS NOT STAYING IN THE PCL.
So based on that, what do you do with Adell? Keep him in the PCL?
JustCheckingIn
Lmfao. Boy that’s a great argument
He sucked in AAA. sure let’s have him strike out 40%+ in the majors and see how he succeeds
He’ll be under 200/300/400. If you think that’s better than a player developing, you deserve to watch your opinion crash and burn
but yes, the angels have the player development juggernaut and the dodgers are the ones who suck at developing prospects. Sure big guy
macstruts
You obliviously are completely ignorant regarding the PCL.
Have you ever been in a PCL park, ever watch a PCL game on TV?
There is a reason why Lux, Bellinger and Trout all got less than 200 PCL ABs. It’s because it’s not a development league.
You really are clueless.
life4_soul
Why not keep Joc and just have Betts play Second .
dirkg
For this trade to fall through when the others ended up being resolved, these would be the scenarios for the Angel’s to “pull out”:
…
1) The Angel’s had another deal for a starting pitcher and saw an opportunity to pivot
…
2) The Angel’s had second thoughts about taking on that much more salary for 2020
…
3) The Angel’s didn’t want to give up the minor leaguers that had not been announced yet as part of the deal
…
4) Arte Moreno pulled rank and got impatient waiting for a deal that seemingly looked lopsided in the Angel’s favor and gave them a lead off hitter and a crucial affordable SP.
…
What scares me as an Angel’s fan is that all indications point to #4.
macstruts
I have heard from a very reliable source it’s #4.
dirkg
That’s what I’m afraid of…Carole needs to take Arte to a remote island for a vacation and allow Billy and the crew to do their jobs.
johndietz
If anyone thinks Rengifo was the only piece going to the Dodgers y’all on crack. Angels will be fine this year.
angelsinthetroutfield
Wonder if we’ll ever get to know what the additional pieces were
youngTank15
You mean players, not pieces.
angelsinthetroutfield
Yes, I do mean players. Though technically it’s could have been money which would be a “piece” of the trade package
OtisSnord
I doubt it. Although if the Angels put together a deal for Robbie Ray (Please, not Matthew Boyd!) or some other SP, we might get a hint in what prospects are included in that package
OCTraveler
Pedersen, Baez, Klbert Ruiz to the Tigers for Boyd
Thurman8er
1. Billy Eppler gets way more flak than he deserves. The GM works for the owner.
2. You can’t fire an owner so please stop suggesting that.
3. We have no way of knowing if this was a steal for the Angles since we never heard what the other piece was.
4. The current rotation will not get the job done.
5. The Angels are still looking, and may get a deal that does not include and arguably superfluous piece like Pederson.
6. Sometimes being an Angels fan sucks.
7. Angels haters need a better target. Might I suggest the Orioles?
Thurman8er
I can’t believe I typed “Angles.” I am tired.
neurogame
Well, one could call Arte getting bent out of shape over the deal “obtuse” while his anger is “acute.”
Too bad these trades aren’t “equilateral” for all sides but you never know how prospects fair in the long-run or how veterans play in a new league/environment.
bobsugar84
Moreno acting like a baby. It took too long and now I don’t want it even if it makes us way better!! Waaaahh!! Haha
norcalblue
Moreno is an idiot. He had an opportunity to add two valuable assets (at a discount) to his team. These assets are exactly what his team needs to compete. The egos of people with power are often their greatest weakness.
As a Dodger fan I am personally pleased this deal feel through. Strip is better than Wood and will be a valuable rotation piece for the LAD if he is not traded elsewhere.
amk3510
Still have absolutely no clue why the Dodgers were going to toss in Andy Pages. Stripling and Joc is more than enough to dump for Rengifo. Thanka Artie for backing out of a great deal.
neurogame
As passionate as an owner as Artie is, he has just shown to have poor instincts when demanding a big signing or trade. When he oversteps his GM, these decisions have rarely worked out for him.
He insisted on trading for an diminishing Vernon Wells and his $86M contract when the Angels lost out on landing Beltre.
He wooed Josh Hamilton for $125M, then the 2nd highest AAV in baseball, calling it a great signing when it was the pitching rotation that needed the most help after losing Greinke.
He helmed the Albert Pujols signing.
He wants to be involved but you hired the people around you for a reason. Joc and Stripling would have helped his team immensely, especially since the are pitching-thin.
macstruts
He helmed the Albert Pujols signing.
Then good for him. That led to a 3 billion dollar TV contract.
neurogame
Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him. Then good for him.
One playoff appearance in the last 9 years for the fans.
One playoff appearance in the last 9 years for the players.
Mike Trout, one playoff appearance in his career.
dynamite drop in monty
You ok?
macstruts
Wow… New Angel fan?
So Arte for 16 years.
2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2014
The previous 33 years.
Before Arte, 1979, 1982, 1986, 2002.
TrumpisMyGawd
When did he buy the team? And if that’s the year he bought the team, how responsible was he for 2004?
macstruts
manil.
Well he added Vlad, the AL MVP and Colon in 2004, so I’d say he had a pretty good hand in it.
neurogame
Yes. I was emphasizing the object pronoun because if he’s working in the best interest of “him,” he’s not working for the bet interest of everyone in the organization.
adamsessler
Great… And 3 yrs. later, the Dodgers signed a TV deal that was worth $8.35B.
macstruts
The Dodgers are the Dodgers. The Angels are the Angels.
clayram83
His decisions seem like they’d come more from a distanced fan than from a smart executive. Typically it’s the fan who keeps calling for a big position player signing while it’s the FO’s job to take care of the things that they don’t care about, like pitching. Seems like that relationship is reversed out in Anaheim.
macstruts
clayram83
Since Arte Moreno took over the Angels :
Name a team that: has acquired a future Cy Young award winner through free agency.
Name a team that has acquired a future MVP winner through free agency.
Name a team that has acquired the #1 free agent pitcher three different times.
Name a team that has acquired the #1 free agent player four time different times.
It’s funny how few people ever say anything nice about Arte Moreno.
TrumpisMyGawd
Nats signed Max.
macstruts
Manil.
It doesn’t happen often, does it? So we have the Angels who have done all four, the Nats have done one. I’m sure there are others that have done one or two over that last seventeen off-seasons.
neurogame
Arte can’t take too much credit for Vlad. “Yes,” he wanted to put a stamp on the team in his first Winter Meetings as owner of the Angels and went against the grain, giving out a 5yr contract to a player who’s medical history deterred other clubs like the Mets from offering more than 3yrs, however, a deal was already in place with the Dodgers. The deal was in limbo though as the Dodgers were in the process of being sold to the McCourts and the contract would have muddied the financials. Vlad fell into their Angel laps.
The starting outfield for the Dodgers that year was Milton Bradley, Juan Encarnacion and…………. Dave Roberts! And once the sale was finalized, the Dodgers’ biggest free agent signing became Jose Lima.
macstruts
neurogame
I get what you are saying but Arte doesn’t get enough credit for things he does and takes all the blame when things go wrong.
It’s really neither, it’s a mixed bag. He does some good things. He does some bad things.
Trout wanted to stay.. Ohtani wanted to play here. That doesn’t happen if players don’t like playing for him.
neurogame
That’s very true. If Arte was in the personality zone of, say, James Dolan or Jeffery Loria, I would be shocked if money would have overridden a terrible owner.
Arte’s heart seems to be in the right place, but that’s also what makes some of his decisions puzzling. If he’s hiring smart, capable, trustworthy people, let them do their job!
619bird
One would think the Dodgers would rather trade these 2 out of the NL if they could and I don’t think they’ll trade within the division to a potential young up and coming team like San Diego.
prov356
There is more to the story. I wonder if the Dodgers upped the price once Joc lost his hearing and required Adell as one of the prospects. It’s suspicious that we never heard who the other 2 players going to the Dodgers were. That’s my speculation, but Moreno has not been known to me as being irrational like this.
Rexhundler86
With pages in the deal, they were asking for marsh, that killed the Kluber deal
prov356
I hadn’t heard that Marsh was the ask from the Dodgers. I hadn’t heard anyone specific.
Koamalu
We know for certain that Marsh was not one of the prospects in the deal. None of the Angels top prospects were.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
That quite honestly is an egregious statement. It’s really more likely nobody heard about the last two prospects, because they never got that far. They probably got to the list of different prospects, but seeing as they decided to wait on Joc’s arb and the Betts trade, didn’t come to an understanding before Artie became impatient.
prov356
Egregious? That’s a little extreme. As I said, I was speculating.
neurogame
If Friedman “required Adell, he should have been prepared for Eppler to laugh while hanging up the phone. A streaky, platoon outfielder who can’t hit lefties and is in his walk year for a young, cost-controlled top 10 prospect?
No way Friedman even presented that idea.
prov356
Again, like I said, it was my speculation that might explain what appears to be an irrational decision on Moreno’s part.
em650r
Dodgers should be calling Cleveland, Toronto and
Baltimore
its_happening
Why would Baltimore or Toronto want Pederson?
empirejim
Artie’s team needs pitching, everybody knows it. Then he lets the snafu with the Betts deal get under his skin and he nixes the Pederson/Stripling deal. Where’s he go next? Taijuan Walker? Lol… Maybe he can try to get Lincecum to put the bong away for a while?
Maybe Artie is a passionate owner, but he needs to let his GM do the deals or name himself the GM.
nebelski
So… What exactly is so “intriguing” about Rengifo? Obviously not all of the players going to LA have been mentioned, but he doesn’t seem that impressive.
adamsessler
It’s the Angels’ loss. The trade was completely lopsided to the Angels’ benefit in terms of talent & on-field production, specifically b/c the Dodgers’ motives for the trades had nothing to do w/ talent or production.
If it is true that Arte personally intervened & cancelled a trade his baseball people made b/c of impatience & irritation, then it really is telling about why the Angels have been mostly mediocre since he bought the team.
Finlander
I already hate myself for saying this…but the Yankees make sense as a fit. Only 1 year, a needed power lefty bat loving the short porch. And Paxton is down. Maybe something like Joc, Strip, Nelson (can he be traded?) for Kahnle, Wade and Frazier? It would be fun to see two heavyweights squeeze out a deal..
Sherm623
The deal broke down when Pederson told Maddon that he didn’t really want to play 2b some of the time
TheAdrianBeltre
This is underrated.
brucenewton
Moreno being stubborn and impatient. Cost them a valuable swing man and a starting outfielder. Rengifo isn’t getting them that anywhere else. Angels would have been much better off with Goodwin as the 4th OF and Adell spending a full season in AAA. Oh well Arte.
macstruts
There is no freaken way Adell is going to spend a full year a AAA. That’s beyond crazy. I’ll be nice and stop there.
And who were the Angels giving up?
bravesfan
I don’t see how they can keep Joc now when they basically owned him in arbitration and then tried to trade him away for scrap, then got stuck keeping him. Just seemed like a win for the angels …
The Human Rain Delay
If I were Fried and Arte was still willing to listen id propose this –
Price- Kiki -Pages- Edwin Rios- 9 mill (3 mill per)
for
Renigfo- Ty Buttrey
Obstacles for Angels -Taking on 20 mill this year, Price risk, Arte’s temper-
Angels- Gets- Arm in Price, some prospects (Rios could be Dh post Albert) Pages a nice far out play
Obstacles for Dodgers- Losing that maybe #3 ish starter come playoffs-
Dodgers get under CBT easily with room for a deadline take in (6-10 mill under depending where you look)
Dodgers lose all Price risk, further clear out the 2022 payroll for big free agent offseason
Get to keep Joc now all year for Pollock platoon
Dodgers Add another low key great bullpen piece imo in Buttrey, he was just over-worked last year in 2nd half-
Dodgers Get 10 years of cheap service for Kikis last year and 3 wildcard years from Price
Now I know Dodger fans will think we are being screwed here again but I dont think its enough still tbh or in other words the Angels would REJECT this offer if presented-
Interested to hear from mostly Angel fans and anyone nuetral more tbh than Dodger fans on this- I do think the Dodgers try and get under the Cbt this year, and leave some incoming money room before the deadline – Other avenues almost all lead to taking less value imo on pieces going out….here we get 2 young cheap players that help immediately (Renigfo becomes Kiki and another good pen piece too add with Grat to the pen
neurogame
As Price gets older, I don’t believe he benefits from an AL style line-up with the DH. He’s better off served on an NL team with the pitcher batting 8th/9th. You would want Stripling instead as he’s younger and costs less. He could be starting on half of the MLB teams but the he’s just rotation depth on the Dodgers.
BigTuna
Seems like non-Angel fans are the only ones irked by Arte’s decision to back out of the deal.
I am pretty happy about it. Never been a Joc guy. Don’t need Dodgers leftovers to compete this season.
Now I’m hoping Arte signs Puig just for spite and trades for some SP/RP help. Upton Trout Puig in LF CF RF doesn’t sound too bad to me…
wu tang killa beez
Joc to Oakland ! The A’s are ready to take over the AL west and they need that lefthanded power bat. Time to spend money Oakland
LetThereBeLux
Joctober looks best in Dodger Blue so I hope the relationship isnt frayed. A starting lineup of Joc, betts, belli, turner, muncy, seager, smith and lux looks a whole lot better than any that includes Beatty/AJ/kiké/Taylor in it day in and day out. Joc is an under rated left fielder defensively as well
JustCheckingIn
Ahh, the logic “we have 72M upton so we Can’t afford to have 7.75M Pederson who’s eons more productive” is just fantastic
Follow that up with, we don’t need Joc, we have a 21 year old in AAA who struck out 30% of the time last year… let’s rush him to the majors as soon as he’s a super two!
And you fools wonder why the angels have sucked for so long. Teams aren’t supposed to deny massive talent upgrades because of pipe dreams. That’s how the Angels fans apparently think
macstruts
I think you guys are clueless. Or you don’t understand baseball. Or maybe it’s the PCL you don’t understand.
Pederson is not going to play for Upton. The Angels are not going to leave Adell in the PCL. The Angels are not going to sit Adell on the Bench.
So what will the Angels do? Send Adell back to AA where he can actually develop or keep him in the PCL where everyone rakes?
I don’t think you guys are all that bright. Adell is going to come up and he’s going to play. Ready or not. The reason for that is you don’t keep star prospects in the PCL.
JustCheckingIn
Bro, if everyone rakes, why did he suck in AAA?
Your own player disproves your point.
He needs plate discipline and pitch recognition. Either he learns in AAA vs the best non-majors… but much better than anything in AA or below….. or he strikes out 40% of the time while you’re trying to dethrone the Astros. How is this a fricking question?
JustCheckingIn
Adell has a 670 OPS in AAA. He raked Leaves on his way back to the dugout, that’s about it
He’s young. Let him be young. Don’t ruin it cause your impatient. Jeez
MrAngelFan
@Commonsense By what measure is Pederson eons more productive than Upton. Not by WAR or OPS+, Upton is better. WRC+ numbers are similar. Pederson is also a part time player. Upton can hit both lefties and righties. There is nothing that suggest that Pederson is “eons” ahead of Upton.
The Angels have not been bad for so long. They had the best record in baseball in 2014. The Angels have always developed quality starters. Shoemaker, Garrett Richards, Adenhart, and Clevinger were set to take the baton from Weaver, Lackey, and Ervin Santana. All 4 are quality starters. The Angels wouldn’t be in this predicament if those 4 panned out. One guy gets killed by drunk driver, two are always injured and one gets traded for nothing by the worst GM in history. Bad luck is not something exclusive to the Angels. The Rays were going to good for years to come when Matt Moore and Chris Archer first came up. Things haven’t exactly panned out for those two either..
You also have to factor in that most teams don’t match up well against the Astros in recent history.. Most teams would not win the division if they were in the same division as the Astros. However, there is some question to the validness of their success.
JustCheckingIn
-upton sucks with the glove in LF. Joc plays a servicable RF or LF
-Upton’s wRC+ last year was 92. Joc’s was 127
Ops? 724 v 876
WOBA? Upton- 302. Joc? 362
Upton had a negative WAR in 2019, Joc was 3.0.
Upton struck out 10% more than Joc in 2019. Upton is also breaking down physically,
On top of being unproductive on the field Compared to Joc
Exactly what tells you Upton is better, other than he was better say 5 years ago? Lmfao
MrAngelFan
So you base all your argument on last year. Is your point that Joc is better than Upton with tendinitis? If you are simple and that short sighted, I give you that. Upton didn’t have his legs last year. If you ever played, you know how difficult it is to hit without your base.
So one year of injuries and all of a sudden Upton is breaking down. You need to look at his career again and look at the numbers of games played each year. He is rarely injured. He did not have surgery. He is healthy. Nothing suggest he is breaking down physically. He had a freak accident in the last game of pre season.
Upton has been over 4 WAR four times. He has been over 5 twice. Wake me up when Joc gets there with his eons of production that he has more than Upton.. LOL.. Your point doesn’t fact check again.
Upton was rated #33 on top 100 right now 3 years ago, and #67 two years ago. He is healthy once again and will be back this year. One injury season does not define a player. The 10 years of consistency prior to last year do.
Look you seem like a nice troll that just blurts random nonsense without any facts. “He is breaking down physically”? Did you see his medical records? In reality, he is rarely hurt. Base your argument on fact, not made up points so people won’t think you’re an idiot.
crazylarry
Arte typical cry baby. Taking my toys and going home.
iknoweverythingesq
Imagine it- walking home down the 5. Dragging his blankie behind him sucking on his thumb.
stevenlhume
Arte just had to quit playing cause his poop was done.
zeppy123
Joc and Stripling was a steal for the Angels. Cancelling the trade was lame and not smart.
mccourtscorpse
must be awesome having such a petulant owner as Morono. the Dodgers are basically giving you arguably your second best starter and a monster bat but noooooo its not happening fast enough for ME. lol what a maroon.