February 7: The trade is expected to become official today, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets, citing sources from multiple teams involved in the deal. Completion of the Betts blockbuster would serve as a precursor for the finalization of the Dodgers’ Pederson/Stripling trade with the Angels as well.
It’s not yet clear what type of alterations, if any, will be made to the deal. Heyman tweeted earlier this morning that the Red Sox have been seeking an additional top prospect from the Twins, although it’s difficult to envision the Twins parting with another highly regarded talent without additional pieces being sent their way.
February 6, 8:27PM: “Some involved [in the trade] are now suggesting it’s not a certainty,” MLB Network’s Jon Heyman tweets, as the holdup continues to center around the Red Sox, Twins, and Graterol’s condition. Boston is reportedly trying to “reconfigure” its end of the deal with the Twins, “meaning more than Graterol” would head from Minnesota to Fenway Park.
1:03 AM: There’s only a “slim” chance this trade will completely fall apart, per Jeff Passan of ESPN. The delay “is a problem but one we can figure out,” a source involved in the trade told Passan.
February 5: It has been more than 24 hours since the Mookie Betts trade was first reported, but the potential blockbuster featuring the Red Sox, Dodgers and Twins still hasn’t been finalized as we head into Thursday. There’s still confidence the deal will be completed, but there may end up being more pieces involved in the trade, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports (subscription link).
The Red Sox are slated to send Betts and left-hander David Price (and approximately half of the remaining $96MM on his contract) to the Dodgers. In return, the Red Sox are set to get outfielder Alex Verdugo from LA and righty Brusdar Graterol from Minnesota. The Twins are in line to receive righty Kenta Maeda from the Dodgers.
Despite missing the final couple of months of last season with back/oblique/core problems, Verdugo has already been medically cleared, according to Rosenthal. However, Rosenthal writes that the Red Sox do have some concerns over the hard-throwing Graterol, whom they now regard as more of a reliever than a starter after looking at his medical records. Notably, Graterol’s a past Tommy John surgery patient who has also dealt with other injuries. The 21-year-old missed two months last season with shoulder issues that limited him to a combined 70 2/3 innings at four different levels (including 9 2/3 in the bigs).
While it still seems that Boston will acquire Graterol if the trade does occur, Rosenthal notes the club may also require another player and/or cash considerations from either the Dodgers or Twins to push it over the goal line. Assuming the three teams are able to reach some sort of compromise on what would go down as one of the most significant trades in recent history, it should open the door for yet another high-profile swap involving the Dodgers. They’re working to move outfielder Joc Pederson and hurler Ross Stripling as part of a deal with the Angels, but that’s delayed as the Dodgers await word on the Betts deal.
The Dodgers trade with the Angel’s seems one sided in the Angel’s favor. Am I missing something!!??
Get it done.
Oh, okay Cam.
Aaaaaaaas yoooooooou wiiiiiiiiiiiiish…!
they hit a snag in the deal when, after giving everyone a full day to voice their opinions, Bloom realized that he is getting shafted and backed out. That’s the only ‘problem’ here.
It would be the prospect from the 3rd leg of a 3(really 4 given Angels deal seems intertwined)…team deal to hold up this complex AF trade. Lol
Don’t Blink Dodgers as Red Sox only other options require taking Wil Myers and/or paying Tax
Sit tight rich
Everything should work out but given the kid has already had TJ surgery and the Sox ownership memory of the Pomerantz medicals fallout as well as health disclosure laws, the delay seems reasonable, There’s no reason though to announce the players involved until everything is done.
Maybe bloom says let’s do this all internal.
I’ll kick you betts, price, and peraza. You send back verdugo, pederson, maeda and a lottery ticket.
Bloom releases JBJ on his non-guaranteed arb agreed salary and boston winds up another 11m under cbt as they would’ve been originally.
Pederson>JBJ both on 1 yr deals.
Maeda>graterol as a starter apparently, and boston chooses whether he makes 3m or 11m.
Verdugo the constant.
Maybe someone else takes jbj for a lottery pick if bloom kick in a couple mil.
Dodgers save whatever they were paying to try to get a potential 2b or at least utility inf.
Not impossible right? Not likely, but, not inpossible.
Not apparently. Maeda >>>>> Graterol as a starter right now, and probably forever. Graterol’s chances of being an effective starter are not good for multiple reasons.
I mentioned the same thing. The RS whine to the LAD that Graterol is damaged goods. LAD then offers to add Maeda instead of Gaterol, since it is the same deal to them. The RS complain that Gaterol was key since they wanted him more than Maeda, so the LAD have to throw in something else.
Since Joc was already on the move, and since they are slightly over budget, the RS offer to chip in some $$$, since they are ~ $18M under now.
As a side benefit, the LAD can still offer Stripling to the Angels for that kid.
Maeda’s Contract
Innings Pitched Bonus
$250,000 each for: 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200
Games Started Bonus
$1M each for: 15, 20, 25, 30, 32
People seem to think his contract is his base salary. It’s not. The Dodgers have been manipulating his starts and innings for years.
Maeda as a starter does not, you’re correct, make 3m anymore.
BUT, as a 32 game starter, hurling 200+ IP, Maeda maxes out at 14m/yr in salary.
To hit that many innings you must be effective, or, your manager would pull you.
I’d gladly take a healthy (32 start) effective (200+ IP) member of the rotation at 14m. Not only is it under what SP has gone for this offseason, but because it’s incentive based if he underperformed you pay almost nothing.
AltSox
Incredibly logical position.
I don’t know why the Red Sox are so worried about the cap. For you and me, who cares if they go over the cap by five to ten million. But they seem to care. Maybe they have big plans in 2021?
I’m just saying based on the limitation of this imaginary cap, things get complex. I sure wish the Red Sox would take Maeda and just get it over with.
Honestly I think chaim wants the floor of maeda but paying 500k/yr the first few years, the the 3 arb years at the end.
Maeda I think is a good deal as a known quantity and no cost downside.
Future years, you figure peak production, maeda costs you at the high end 70m. A top pitching prospect (ignoring possible extension) runs… if you keep it cheap maybe $20m in that same time.
Chaim wants that value…. but really he should just not get in a bunch over it IMO. The team can afford it, less risk/gamble, just not the lottery cost savings upside
The Red Sox cannot perennially go over the luxury tax limit. This would be the third straight year they’d go in the penalty box. At some point you’re going to have to reset that. Obviously they “could” pay the tax every single year but i don’t think anyone believes that’s the best strategy. It’s not solely for financial reasons either. The draft and IFA penalties are every bit as important. They have a team with obvious flaws and could use a reset year.
This makes too much sense to be the year you press reset. Recoup some pieces that will help In the near future. The Dombrowski style of roster creation doesn’t leave you much of anything left in the minors. They’re well overdue for a restocking.
How does Maeda cost 70 million? You just said he maxes out at 14. 14*4=56
Though I think you’re high on the 14 for Maeda. When I looked at it yesterday I believe it was just north of 12 per year if he hit all the incentives.
@jbigz12 mostly agree here. But I do have an issue with people saying the Red Sox can duck the luxury tax and still make the playoffs in 2020. They were already 12 games back of a wild card spot in 2019 and the other teams vying for Wild Card spots have improved this offseason.
I certainly don’t agree with that. The RS are not looking at the playoffs this year without some extreme luck going their way. The team is worse than last season. Would be hard to argue that it isn’t. It’s definitely not a bad team though. Could be an 82-85 ish game winner. Verdugo is a solid major league OF. Benintendi could rebound. Devers could get even better. Sale also could bounce back in a big way.
Team isn’t bad by any means. But the Yankees are better. The Rays aren’t any worse and even the Blue Jays made an effort to get better. Playoffs are highly unlikely.
Cots has this:
Base – 3
Max incentives – 10
Annual roster bonus: 150k
Omg it would another faulty trade if that pitcher the RS getting is defective. That would be horrific n they need to demand another pitching body.
If Graterol’s medical records are the snag for this blockbuster… oh man I would be so happy.
Hopefully it is, I would rather the Dodgers keep Verdugo for 5 more years than expect Betts to be the one piece that guarantees a WS win.
Whenever someone uses the word guarantee in a baseball discussion I’m always left wondering if they are watching the same game as the rest of us.
I’m left wondering if you comprehended the comment or you just jumped at your first chance to bark about something. Because Franky didn’t use the word “guarantee” as a guarantee of anything.
Agreed
In the statement “….than expect Betts to be the one piece that guarantees a WS win,” the word guarantee was actually being used poetically. I see the light now. Thanks!
Did everyone forget the Evil Empire also plays baseball?
Guy said Evil Empire when they’ve been absent from the World Series for a decade now hahaha
Haha so true Johnny! This dude is so miserable in his existence, I don’t think I have ever seen him post a positive comment on this site, and his comments are eeeeeevvverywhere.
So every scout and website thinks this guy is a reliever but this is new shocking information to the Sox?
Of course. Just like the Dodgers will be absolutely shocked when Betts shows up and they discover that he is really 5’7″ and not 5’9″.
Red Sox are so scummy.
Mikeytikey, go back to sleep in your crib.
haha good one
Yeah, they found out he only has 2 pitches, a 103 mph heater and a wipe out slider. Nobody with only those two pitches could ever become a starter. I guess Boston’s bullpen is set, with closer by committee. Worked out great last year.
You’re right. Nobody with an average velocity playing at 99mph with a sinking fastball which doesn’t miss bats and a good, but not completely dominant slider and no other pitches is likely viewed as a starter. Especially not when they’ve missed 2 of the past 4 years with elbow and shoulder issues between putting on 85lbs of body fat.
Graterol is not throwing 103mph as a starter. He sits at 98-99mph later in starts already.
Looked pretty easy 100 in the playoff series. Slider was nice too. Historically around 1 HR per 20 AB, and the sinking heat for grounders is a plus. How many top 100 pitching prospects in Boston system? (crickets..)
Minnesota would be happy to keep him, their other top 100 Balazovic, and their near-top 100 Duran..
Oops, one HR per 20 IP…lmao…
The Dodgers Angels trade is even more intriguing. There has to be a bigger name prospect coming back to the Dodgers because right now its way too lopsided. Marsh maybe?
Basically the Dodgers trading Pederson and Maeda to clear the Dodgers half of Price’s salary for this season while taking on 26 million for Mookie (give or take by subtracting Verdugo and Stripling’s salaries which is basically league minimum for each). Dodgers seem to have given up far more than expected in this trade, even if it’s been spread out between three teams.
Unshockingly, another hot take completely misses the point
There was no space for Joc with Mookie, even with Verdugo gone. Pollock had lower trade value and both kike/CT3 have more value because they back up the infield as well
One of Joc or Pollock had to go, and only one had value. And only one was walking as a free agent next year as well
Maeda is not a salary cutting move, it’s a get what Boston wants to complete the trade move.
Maeda is a “we’d rather give up Maeda than another one of our prospects type move” in my opinion. The Dodgers have interesting arms they could’ve given up. IE. Gonsolin, Josiah Gray
Dealing Maeda is absolutely a salary cutting move. It’s what keeps the Dodgers under the CBT. You want to know how much they value not paying the CBT? That’s how much.
Lmfao what!?
Minn agreed to give up a top 40 prospect for Kenta Maeda. Mr. we won’t start him in October
A top 40 prospect!!! Of course they traded him
He makes 3million dollars base. Do you really think NO ONE on the team makes more money? Hell, why wouldn’t they trade Kike or Taylor? They both make a lot more… what a bad take
OMG. Talk about your bad takes.
First of all, that prospect isn’t going to the Dodgers, he’s going to Boston.
Second, Maeda’s actual compensation over the last few years is closer to $12M. His base is meaningless unless he never throws a pitch. What he is actually paid at the end of the year is what counts against the CBT.
Third, he was on the bubble of remaining in the rotation before the Dodgers traded for Price. With Price he’s almost certainly a reliever.
And so on.
A walking contradiction with a masters in the art of D-baggery!
BlueSKY you’ve outdone yourself again. Let’s review:
“Second, Maeda’s actual compensation over the last few years is closer to $12M. His base is meaningless unless he never throws a pitch”.
Followed up with:
“Third, he was on the bubble of remaining in the rotation before the Dodgers traded for Price. With Price he’s almost certainly a reliever”
He can’t be a reliever and make 12 million bucks BlueSKY! In fact as a reliever he’d be hard pressed to make 5 million bucks! And while we are sticking to FACTS—the only way he makes 12 million bucks is if Maeda starts 32 games and pitches over 200 innings!
On what list is Brusdar Graterol a top 40 prospect. MLB has him 83rd
Replying to commonsense
Last years.
BP, I believe. And i trust them and BA more than MLB.
You’re a year late and a dollar short, then. Graterol dealt with a shoulder injury a lot of people expected to require surgery and his changeup didn’t develop as quickly as people hoped. He’s now looked at primarily (almost universally) as a bullpen guy and with the loss of innings, he won’t have a chance to pitch a full season in a rotation until 2022. Thus the major drop for him in the rankings.
Presumably he won’t be able to make it to the bonus levels if he’s in the bullpen?
Less innings = less money if I’m reading his contract?
And another genius misses the point
There was no space for Joc with Mookie, even with Verdugo gone. Pollock had lower trade value and both kike/CT3 have more value because they back up the infield as well
One of Joc or Pollock had to go, and only one had value. And only one was walking as a free agent next year as well
Mookie will make $27 million.
Pederson $7.75-9.5 million
Maeda $3.12 million plus incentives. A Max of about $10 million.
Stripling will make $2.1 million
Verdugo will make about MLB minimum.
The don’t even need Betts lol so gross
It would be so awesome if the deal feel through and all the Dodger fans had major premature ejaculation.
Homer. It would be so awesome if you learned to spell.
Premature ejaculation looks correct to me
It would be even more awesome if you deleted your account.,
There’s only one typo.
Boston strong-arming the deal now? Figures. Twins should pull back Graterol and see how Boston reacts. Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa be cool, minnesota, be cool.
Boston wanted a top/good young prospect starter. LA wasn’t willing to include Gonslin, May etc. Only reason Twins got involved PERIOD is because the current rotation they have maeda becomes the instant Ace.
Me? I’d be fine if LA went ahead and dumped the Twins from the deal, then sent either May/gonsolin instead since appears Graterol isn’t as healthy as led to believe (AJ Preller anyone).
Maeda becomes the instant ace? I mean I’ll take Berrios who just chucked up 200 innings of mid 3 ball. He might be the #2 because I’m certainly not a Jake Odorizzi believer but cmon.
And there’s no shot the Dodgers are going to send May. The deal will just fall through if that’s what it came down to. But it shouldn’t because the Dodgers have a ton of other arms that could go in his place.
Talk all day has been that the Dodgers will send Gray and then make a separate trade for Maeda with the Twins.
Red Sox don’t want a reliever and Gonsolin is destined to be a reliever.
Why is Gonsolin destined to be a reliever again?
Maeda isn’t the instant ace of the Twins. He’s the #3 starter behind Berrios & Odorizzi
You win the turd comment of the day. Boston appeared happy with the deal agreed to, but there is a reason trades aren’t official when pending medicals. The team saw the medicals for a key piece to the deal and it seems didn’t like what it saw. In good faith, it is saying “hey, with this new information we’re not getting the full value anticipated, how can we bridge that gap?”
It takes a special kind of bias to take a team balking a bit at medicals and paint it as strong-arming. Figures.
Ala AJ Preller with the Matt Kemp trade, the hips dont lie lol. And after all the posturing…they took Kemp anyways with nothing extra
Here’s how Boston reacts. “Sounds good.”
Twins could just pull back, trade straight up with Dodgers Graterol for Maeda and let Boston scratch their heads about their next move.
Red Sox are going to ask to add Josiah Gray or Tony Gonsolin to the deal…or maybe even Ross Stripling now that they know they are willing to give him up! In other words, if Brusdar is indeed damaged goods, the Sox need someone they can insert into their 2020 rotation or pen on opening day.
Imagine if this deal falls apart? What a train wreck that would be for everyone!
They got Pom Pom from the Padres a few yrs ago n he was hurt n never was able to pitch effectively in Boston. If you pitch hurt n can’t perform in Boston you will hear the BOOO birds loudly.
To make this statement a fact we will change it to:
Anderson Espinoza never pitched an inning in San Diego because he wasn’t healthy.
Actually, he had a great season in 2017, but continue….
Pomeranz put up a 3.32 ERA in 32 starts in 2017. Only Sale was better,. That is very effective. Got to get the basics right for anyone to take you seriously.
Wouldn’t be that big of train wreck for everyone. Twins seemed content until LA gave them a call. LA doesn’t need this trade at all. They already have West won. Would be just as good if they added some top bullpen arms at deadline. A main reason to doing this trade was for PR. Hey look we are spending money and trying to add people get better. Now they can be like, hey we tried.
this is actually about john Henry telling his front office, no, we arent trading the best player in baseball for 2 unknowns, get the dodgers to include a high prospect or no dice’
now they are juggling what to do, go back on the deal, or make up an injury? while im not saying graterol isn’t hurt, he very well may be, hes not enough as a return, the sox looked at that these 24 hours and realized they are essentially throwing away the next 5 seasons, they arent going to do that, they will keep betts for this year atleast and make a run at it, then overpay him as they should.
betts is better than trout?
No Way
He’s healthier than Trout has been over the yrs.
794 games for Mookie vs 863 for Trout since Mookie came up in 2014. An average of 144 games per season for Trout vs 132 for Mookie. 52.5 WAR for Trout vs 42.0 for Mookie.
Nice try. Betts only played in 52 games his rookie year because he wasn’t promoted until late June.
Over the past five seasons, he’s averaged 148 games played. Trout – 141
How does trading away a player one year earlier than you would lose him anyways (or sign him in free agency, which it could do even if it traded him now) throw away the next 5 seasons? That isn’t how baseball works…check out the 2001 Seattle Mariners for a good example of how trading away top talent doesn’t automatically ruin teams.
This is a team seeing the medicals for a guy with some injury history and having concern, which happens. Also, Verdugo isn’t an “unknown”.
Verdugo is a top prospect.
Verdugo is beyond a top prospect, he’s a starting caliber MLB outfielder for a contender. Verdugo had played meaningful innings for the Dodgers, one of the top teams in baseball. If he wasn’t being traded, he’d be playing 120+ games for LA.
John Henry saw that Paxton went down. That made punting on 2020 less appealing…?
they are essentially throwing away the next 5 seasons
———————————————————
They are throwing away the next 5 seasons, because they traded away one season of Betts for 5+ seasons of two guys?
Are you aware that what you said is exactly 100% backwards in all respects?
2……”unknowns”?
Its gonna be funny when the deal falls through.
Everyone has been talking as if it was a done deal. Imagine if it fell apart.
It’s way too important to LAD and BOS to fail because of another teams prospect
Would be great for us. Sox’ s are hell bent on getting under the luxury. More trade rumors. Maybe more teams will be in seeing the price wasn’t insane high and now Sox are more desperate. Or just a Price salary dump not eating as much $ and a Betts solo trade. We had the excitement of this trade already and now get 2 more trades! Then Twins now realize “hey we did need another starter” Same with Angels. Now I am rooting for it not to go through. Next year the Dodgers fans excuse will be because we didn’t get Mookie. Sox cheated us out of a championship in 2018 and again in 2020.
and i HATE long contracts, harper ,cole , a-rod, the only 2 ill ever say made sense will be mookie and mike trouts, you dont let that kinda talent get traded, no matter what, you get penalized pay fees whatever, but you make damn sure you sign them
Mookie is not going to be an exception to that
All pitcher contracts over 4 years is stupid. When was the last time there was a 5+ year deal for a pitcher that wasnt flawed in some way shape or form? Maybe CC, But even he had personal issues towards the end.
Scherzer and Greinke
Max Scherzer
It’s hard to find a pitching contract over 6 years that didn’t work out. Maybe Felix Hernandez. That’s about it.
Price
Hampton
Sutter
K. Brown
Zito
If Harper stinks the last 4 years or less it will be ok. He sold and will sell a lot of tickets jerseys beer dogs etc. Plus they own shares in Comcast so he made them a lot of money there. Don’t know exact numbers but Harper is banking them some serious dough. They only paid him so far what 20 some million and he has made them over 50 million already. Now factoring in baseball only he is over rated and not worth 330 million.
Mookie anything is possible but small speed guys don’t trend well for having long productive careers. Especially without peds. Look at McCutchen and then Ellsberry. That is most likely Mookies future.
Mookie is not a small speed guy. He is a power hitter. 30 HR per full season.
If he plays at his career average the first 3 years of a new deal through his age 30 season and then start to decline, he could retire after 8 years and a 10/350 deal would still be a win for the team that signs him.
A-Rod’s first deal he signed with the Rangers was actually a bargain. It looked bad because the Rangers owner wouldn’t invest anymore in the team and then had him traded and covered a good chunk of it to have it moved when in hindsight they should of just kept him. He performed at an elite level the entire length of the contract. Now the second contract he signed with the Yankees where they were basically bidding against themselves and had to eat the last couple years doesn’t look so good.
Verdugo and Meada for 1 year of Betts and 3 of Price. I don’t see why the Dodgers do this. Verdugo is young, inexpensive and controllable and has a ton of talent. Maeda is a decent back end starter. Betts is a great player, but is he enough to get the World Series?
Betts Is a luxury item for the Dodgers, someone to sooth the fan bases wantin need for a big move. Price (or another starting pitcher really) is what they really need to win the world series.
Mookie is good enough to win the NL MVP and World Series MVP. While his first year was decent, Verdugo is still somewhat of a lottery ticket with a concerning injury history. This is the right move for LA to make.
Just finish it already
Looks the Twins may have almost pulled a fast one. I don’t blame them.
An Astros fan who doesn’t blame a team for pulling a fast one? What a surprise.
Flags fly forever
See my user name? It’s an acronym for any Astros fan that has no issue with what Houston did to win the WS.
Sure they do. Just ask any dictator.
@astrosfan you’re trash
Flags fly forever
Some fly as long as mosquitos…remember that.
Astros WS flag should have a skull and crossbones on it.
What about an asterisk?
I don’t really nothing takes away the memories. Haters can pretend the Astros were the only ones cheating. That’s fine.
Astros fans understand that we were the scapegoat. We lost four valuable picks. That hurts, but Click and Dusty will be fine.
Make jokes, it’s cool. But if fans want to get outraged, why not minor league pay?
Oh my. If Minnesota has to raise their offering and Graterol still makes it as a starter for Boston, are we talking a double-fleece?
Unless his medicals are a disaster, I still think LA would do the Maeda for Graterol trade even if Boston is turned off by him. LA could end up keeping Graterol for themselves and adding different prospects to make Boston happy.
LA didn’t add any prospects when the Padres balked at Matt Kemp’s medicals. I seriously doubt they will now. At least nothing of consequence.
You’re also talking about a washed up player, not Mookie
Actually, you may be on to something Dorothy. Maeda for Graterol, if medicals are not terrible. Maeda wants out anyway.
Ooorrr just send Maeda to Boston and cut out Minnesota.
This “thing” has faces?
Why in the world would L.A. do that? They’re trading a cost controlled, high quality, mid rotation arm for an unproven bullpen guy with health issues? There’s a reason the Twins were getting mostly A’s and B’s on the trade overall. It was a really good deal for them even when fans were willing to believe Graterol could be a really good starter.
Boston obviously wants the deal to work, so who’s putting more on the table? Article mentions Twins possibily to add more.
I personally don’t fret our modern sports medicine system. These doctors and all the rehab programs are so top notch, I have to wonder what Bloom is getting at. Graterol is 21.
The issue is to satisfy Boston, not Minnesota, martras.
The Dodgers realize they have a 2 year window left to field a ‘perfect’ team of veterans and youngsters. Kershaw, Turner, Jansen, Pollock are much closer to the end of their careers than their prime, so they are going for broke this season and it’s the right move for them.
While the Dodgers system is packed with young talent, you can’t predict how even Top 10 MLB prospects will perform under the bright lights of MLB or with the pressure of playoff baseball so Friedman wants to give them the best shot to win it all this season. Losing Verdugo and Maeda is a small price to pay to get one year of the most exciting player in baseball and another savvy veteran pitcher who knows how to win. With their farm system, the Dodgers are setup to be very good for the next 5-7 years but this team (provided the Mookie deal goes through) is set up to be excellent and should win it all so long as they stay healthy.
This part cracked me up: “whom they now regard as more of a reliever than a starter after looking at his medical records”
Graterol’s most likely outcome has always been a reliever. His ceiling was/is higher, that’s all. Nothing about his medical should change that. It’s like they got him, pending physical, and then had buyers remorse and used that as an excuse.
It’s fine to be worried about his medicals, but seems hilarious to be surprised that a likely reliever is a reliever.
The Tampa wonder kid was the last person in baseball to realize he is a reliever.
Unless there is something about his Medicals that cry out that Graterol is a likely candidate to start the season on the dl, this doesn’t make much sense. The prior TJ and last year’s shoulder impingement and return were all known even before seeing records.
You know, there’s a lot the astros did right to go with all they did wrong.
Remember Brady Aiken? Where is he now?
It’s easy to know graterol had tj.
It’s hard to say a medical staff LIKES how that ligament/joint look, and are confident in its ability to hold wear/tear with a guys unique motions, which is kinda independent of whether tj occured or was successful.
As others have pointed out, Graterol’s medical records may be suggesting Graterol is not fit for the workload of a starter. Which means Boston can’t rely on even trying to turn Graterol into a starter by getting that 3rd pitch worked out.
Is the real issue Graterol being unable to get that 3rd pitch working or the risk his shoulder blows up and ends his career if you try to make him into an MLB starter? My earlier Alex Meyer comparison was better than I thought.
This trade was submitted using the same app used during the Iowa Caucuses.
The question is, which one will be finalized first, this trade or the final Iowa results!
As a precinct captain at the caucus, this comment made my day!
God bless you, sir.
Follow up question, please!
Which gets resolved first? The primary or the trade?
Ah Sox…could have got a starting pitcher from the Pads and substantially more.
Sox are idiots. How could they resist a starting Padre pitcher and Myers.
Is hard to believe Lovin. Myers has been such a superstar.
Good point. Or they could trade Graterol for somebody Boston wants. The Dodgers can still make this work a number of ways.
Wasn’t I reading all day yesterday from every Sox fan on Earth how awesome this deal was for Boston? I doubt LA will even be willing to add Gonsolin. This deal took a very long time to put together. You cannot change the deal at the 11th hour. The Wilpons tried to do that. You will notice that their buyer just walked away. The same thing could easily happen here if the Sox try to get stupid and demand someone like May, Urias or even Gonsolin.
I hope it doesnt happen
I think we have a bitter Yankee fan!
met fan. Not bitter. Dodgers don’t need him and it’s a gross underpay
yes mookie is worth that contract unless you live in mass like i do you have no idea how truly special he is, hes a generational talent, theirs maybe 3 guys id ever say that about and the only, only contract i ever saw work long term was manny ramirez, when he signed that deal he lived up to it each night and every night, yes i know later he took steroids, i couldnt have cared less, he was the best right handed hitter in the game for over 7 years in boston and mookies that good, funny isnt it? the yankees just overpayed for a pitcher yet nobody is asking is he worth it? so, why do people doubt betts is, do you think when he turns 29 he’ll magically forget how to hit a baseball? grow up. Hes worth it, few guys are
I thought Massachusetts had good school systems?
Andy, lots of immigration into mass. Back in the day it was a big place for Puerto Rican migration among others. Dilutes the effect of the schools down some, and schools in some areas are much MUCH better than others.
So it’s not bad schools, it’s dumb Puerto Rican immigrants that are dragging good schools down? That is what you are saying AltSoxFan?
Does anyone else find that rude and racist?
It could’ve been left unmentioned, but if your community has more ESL students than the community next door, wouldn’t your scores be lower? I assume that if I took a test in Spanish, it would lower the scores of my school.
Racist or not, catering to kids who don’t speak English slows down class rooms. I don’t care if they are from Mexico, France, Italy or Hungary.
Why is that racist?
Mookie is well worth the 27 million this year. He is most likely not worth 300 to 400 million. Most players havnt been or won’t be. Especially a small speed guy. Boston fans will treat him like a better version of Ellsberry. Loved Mookie, what great times. So thankful he turned down our offer though.
And people have seen him. They put the Sox and Yankees on national tv 3 or 4 times a week it seems.
Mookie has averaged 7.9 WAR in his career. If Mookie repeats his 6.8 WAR from 2019, he will be worth roughly double what he is being paid. If he produces at his career average he will provide $36+ million in surplus value, If he puts up another 9.7-10 WAR season and he will have provided nearly double his $27 million salary in surplus value.
Mookie is asking for and if he plays a healthy 2020 season will probably get is $35 million AAV and 10+ years. At 28 years old, someone may give him a 12 year deal.
If he produces a 6.8 WAR average for first 3 years of the deal and then starting in his age 31 season declines at 10% per season for the next 7 years he will still provide surplus value on a 10 year deal.
If he produces at his career average the first 3 years of the deal, declines 10% per season over the next 5 years. he could retire after year 8 and still provide surplus value.
That is how good he is and why a deal with a player that produces at his level is almost guaranteed to be a good deal.
Mookie has averaged 29 HR per season the past 4. years. He is not a small speed guy.
and yes so is trout thats why he is never leaving anehiem, i honestly see betts making more, he steals more bases and hes a better outfielder. Its not even close, the only thing trout has on him is hes more of a power hitter, they are the 2 best players in baseball.its not even an argument
Except Mookie had 1 Mike Trout season and Mike Trout had 10 Mike Trout seasons.
How old are you kid 10? 11?
Debating Trout and Betts is asinine. Betts will couldn’t live up to a six year contract, nevermind a twelve year contract. He’s too small to get that money he wants. As a Red Sox fan, I’m happy he’ll be leaving…potentially.
Betts is a better outfielder than Trout? What a dumb comment. Betts is way too small to be sustainable for 10-12 years and $400
Million.
He’s better than Trout defensively. No, I am not a Red Sox fan, I’m just saying it because it’s true.
Betts is on a Hall of Fame pace and is the second best player in baseball… by far.
Trout is on a All-Time_Great pace and is the best player in baseball…. by far. .
I think when Betts moves to LA, he’s going to lose some WAR.
These teams are like the trade rumors commenters are saying we got fleeced
BETTS is Plausibly worth his asking price more then others but well never know till the end but for now current day I’d say yes him Trout possibly Belinger Ucuna Jr. When his bigger payday comes
Preller may not be done for yet
I am curious what they said about Verdugo. He was out the last month and was suppose to be back for the playoffs. Here we are in February and he is still having issues.
Price has the weird elbow and now Graterol’s medicals show something beyond TJ.
There are some hurdles here. It would be funny if it somehow blows up ony due to Graterol’s medicals.
Reports have specifically said Verdugo passed his physical and is not the hold up
That was most LA fans fear, since he seems to be a the centerpiece
I hope this thing falls on their faces
Now who’s a bitter fan. Yes you are, yes you are
The Red Sox found out about the Paxton injury and decided they have a shot at catching the Yankees this year and changed their mind about giving away Betts
Uhhhh
Ugh…. false hope the Red Sox aren’t about to trade there superstar and pay David Price to pitch for the Dodgers….. if ever there was a time to say “Wait! We change our minds” lol
For the love of God, please fall apart
what do the Dodgers and a lawn chair have in common?
Neither could win a world series the last few years?
They both fold up after Labor Day!!!
watch Price’s medicals screw this up
According to reports this morning, both Price and Verdugo medials have been cleared
Don’t teams look at the medical records before making a trade?
i think its usually agreed to, medicals are taken, and then becomes official. because of all the insiders we learn about these things before the medicals happen now.
They do. That is why the trade isn’t completed.
HIPAA laws don’t allow free access to the medicals of opposing players until the trade is in motion. But the access at that point gives the teams the right to cancel or amend a deal if something alarming is found. Apparently, the Red Sox saw Graterol as a potential starter, unlike just about everybody else who saw him as cheap version of Chapman who could be closing out Sox games for the next 5 years. A relief pitcher has less value to a team than a starter, so the apparent delay is the teams negotiating an additional player to add value to the Red Sox take.
This is the major leagues letting the Dodgers get there 2017 title back. Because all those trade where lopsided on the Dodgers favor.
I’ve heard rumors that price failed his physical
I heard the same thing, the doctor was appalled when he went to do the cough test and realized David doesn’t have balls
Rumor is dodgers are in trade talks with eckersley to acquire those separately.
Hold up is how much the plaque theyre mounted to above the fireplace is worth.
LMFAO
Tried to call Adam Silver for advice on how long to hold trades so the public believes it was negotiated between the teams rather than MLB. The only league remaining pro sports league that isn’t manipulated is the NHL.
any proof or motive?
Twins should pull Graterol from the deal and pursue a separate deal with the Dodgers for Maeda.
Also, what’s holding the Dodgers back from dealing Gonsolin? He’s good, but it’s not like he’s a can’t miss prospect, seems fair to me.
Why cant LA and NY work worked on a deal centering on Bellinger and Judge? Yanks get a lefty bat who can play RF and 1st and allow Stanton to go back to his normal position and play RF. Judge can go back to his hometown and play RF for LA.
Well Bellinger is a lot better for one.
No kidding. Not saying a one for one swap.
Go Cubs Go
Noone from the LAD, Twins or Sox has said anything about there being a “DEAL”.
Sounds like the usual media suspects jumped the gun.
The Dodgers, Twins and Red Sox have all agreed to the deal “pending physicals.” So pretty much everybody has said there’s a “DEAL”
The Twins just had their financing fall through on after the dealer excepted their offer.
The problem with the statement is that none of LAD, BoSox or twins said that. Only the media without saying who was leaking that nonsense.
Yeah the Angels are throwing in Jo Adell, you people don’t realize is the Dodgers are trying to dump salary to 1. Get Betts and Price on board and 2. Have the space to attempt to sign Betts in the off season. So they aren’t really looking for major pieces back.
Great trade Bloom an accomplished Allstar and MVP for two guys one with a back injury and shoulder issues and a pitcher coming off TJ Surgery and shoulder problems the last two months of the 2019 season. Wait till Mookie has a great year with the Dodgers and all we did was dump payroll to get John Henry under the Luxury Tax.
Hire a Manager Already!!!
This crap might work in Tampa Bay where they average 7,000 a game but not in a Major Baseball Market like Boston. The media and fans will not put up with this and Bloom will be scapegoated after this disaster in 2020.
The delay “is a problem but one we can figure out,”
Trains leave Boston, Minnesota and Los Angeles at 9:00 AM traveling 50 MPH. The Boston train heads west, the Minnesota train heads south and the California train heads east. The trains will all stop in Kansas City and exchange passengers. When each train has each of its passengers, it will turn around and head back. Which train will arrive back first and which train will arrive back last?.
Finalnder and 28rings make interesting points.
I have no doubt that there are things on Graterol’s medicals to raise concern, as talented as he is.
But there is also a possibility that the RS are warming up to the idea of challenging the NYY. Since the LAD are parting with Joc to get under the cap, and since the RS just moved under the cap by ~ $18M, maybe the RS want to reverse course, take Maeda instead of Graterol, have the LAD throw in Joc, and the RS kick in a minor leaguer and/or cash.
And if anyone says ‘yeah, but the RS have no minor leaguers, I am already pre-hating you.
Mookie was never going to sign an extension and his ask price of $420,000,000 is way too much especially in the last half of his contract. Whoever signs him will regret it (just like Pujols)! The Redsox would have needed to trade Mookie even if there was not a CBT reset! This trade was a smart long term move!!
I agree. However, on Pujols, it should’ve been presumed that they would regret only the last 8 years of the contract. I still fondly remember arguing with the Angel fans telling me that this was a great signing of a generational talent.
Mookie will be going into his age 28 season when he signs as a free agent. Albert Pujols was going into his age 32 season. Not comparing apples to apples.
Mookie shouldn’t have any decline for at least 3 seasons. For Pujols, his age 32 season was the 2nd in the inevitable post 30 decline for MLB players.
Pujols was still a highly effective hitter for the 1st 5 years of his deal, even though he was in obvious decline. The Angels mistake was the age they signed him at, not the dollar figure. .
On paper this was the Master, Friedman, taking advantage of, his student, Bloom.
I’m happy and excited about Verdugo passing his physical. This deal appears to be a total win on paper for the Dodgers.
It’s almost a Quid Pro Quo ‘though.’ The Sox trade one of the top 5 players in baseball and arguably a pitcher Friedman and Bloom were familiar with. The Sox would send along $45 M over 3 years to pay him to pitch for the the Dodgers.
Last week there was speculation–the Dodgers and Angels thought about reuniting Price with Maddon in Anaheim. So the Dodgers get Betts for Verdugo and the Angels get Price for prospects.
At first glance it appears the Sox got two damaged goods players for Betts–what do you think Mr. Bloom??? Mr. Friedman???
I don’t think the Red Sox did that badly. They got rid of Price and traded Betts for five years of Verdugo and they are going to end up with a pitcher.
Verdugo had a 3.1 WAR last year in his 23 year old season. Even if he averages that, the Red Sox score big.
Also something that is not being noted. Betts is going to have less defensive value in LA than in Fenway. Verdugo will likley have more in Fenway than LA. Fenway has a big RF, which means the better defensive player you are, the more value you’ll have, and vice-versa.
Agree completely! I would rather have 5 years of Verdugo than 1 year of Betts then have him walk. How many times has he said he will become a free agent and walk…..too many to count. Everyone who thinks it is a bad idea to trade Mookie presumes he will resign. I highly doubt he wants to stay!!
How do you know he is going to be that good compared to an established player like Mookie Betts as opposed to a rookie who had one year? Are you kidding me? John Henry has the money. Make an offer of 350 million for 10 years and an option year.
It sure is easy too spend other people’s money isn’t it?
Yes, I agree. I would rather have 5 years of Verdugo than 1 year of Mookie. Almost everyone forgets that Mookie is gone after 2020. How many times has he said he is going free agent…..too many to count. The Red Sox needed to trade him to get someone for him and they got a very good starting outfielder.
Agree completely! I would rather have 5 years of Verdugo than 1 year of Betts then have him walk. How many times has he said he will become a free agent and walk…..too many to count. Everyone who thinks it is a bad idea to trade Mookie presumes he will resign. I highly doubt he wants to stay!!
Maybe Mookie just does not like living in Boston…….
Dodgers need pitching. Their staff of Buehler, Kershaw, Urias, May, Wood, Nelson??? They’re thin at Pitching w a bunch of injury question marks. Trading Stripling AND Maeda is crazy risky. You need at least 7 durable starters to make it through a season. W their shaky bullpen and Treinen wreck, it could be a disaster by going all in on Mookie.
Dodgers need pitching. Their staff of Buehler, Kershaw, Urias, May, Wood, Nelson??? They’re thin at Pitching w a bunch of injury question marks. Trading Stripling AND Maeda is crazy risky. You need at least 7 durable starters to make it through a season. W their shaky bullpen and Treinen wreck, it could be a disaster by going all in on Mookie.
Padres. You left out Price (if deal goes through), Gonsolin, Ferguson, Santana and White. They have enough starters to make it through the season.
Dodgers need pitching?. You do not seem to follow teams outside San Diego.
Add Price or Stripling and Meada. One of that group will be there. There is also Gonsolin and Gray, So it’s a staff that goes nine or ten deep.
If the Dodgers need pitching, EVERY team in baseball needs pitching.
If only my team was that “thin” in starting pitching.
Yes there are question marks but you do realize that urias is 22 and was VERY good last seson. May is a top prospect in baseball (probably a reason for that), and Nelson, in his 3 starts, proved that he still had the stuff to be a 1-2 in any rotation.
Actually, the rule of thumb is 12 starters will be used per season.
I’m gonna laugh uncontrollably if the deal falls through and the Sox wind up having to pay Price AND Betts and can’t get under the luxury tax, but at the same time, this trade is good for baseball.
Boston’s only other option, it would seem, would be to ship Betts and Price to SD and there’s absolutely NO chance the Padres would include any of their top 5 prospects now. Not if the LA deal falls apart.
Why do people say Boston has buyers remorse and now wants more because the fans think they are getting hosed?
This deal was NEVER completed or announced, No trade is complete until medicals are reviewed and approved, the difference here is because of the magnitude of this trade it got leaked and the sport writers jumped the gun in announcing it, but be clear….this trade was never announced by either team or MLB
Teams agree to trades all the time and due to medicals back out, but we never hear about them
Still not seeing this trade from a Red Sox perspective. Basically, this is the start of a rebuild or retool and your trading your 2 best trade chips for a reliever and a corner outfielder. (I do like Verdago in Fenway).
I believe they would have done better unloading Betts at the deadline.
I read alot of Sox fans saying its a B trade. We had to get rid of Betts. Well, just because you have to doesn’t make it a good deal.
This was a salary dump and I cannot see it any other way.
I gave it a B. Agree that July probably brought back more if you want to go into a real rebuild bc or wouldn’t have gotten enough money off the books without trading other significant pieces to get under the tax. Getting under the tax restores picks and pool money which are both important. They got a cheap MLB ready OF who through 400 ABs has shown he can hit and he plays good defense. They don’t view Graterol as just a reliever, thus the holdup when the exam may indicate he might be for health reasons. He is a top 100 prospect who has also gotten a taste of the show. You get 2 MLB ready or near ready players and lux tax relief instead of more lower level prospects which you would want for a rebuild.
Betts has more value to a team trading for him now because 1, they get his entire year of production and 2, they can obtain the compensation pick by extending the qualifying offer, thus they will likely offer more. I get that there would be desperate teams in contention that might make a dumb offer at midseason to get them a half year of Betts. A first half injury could destroy that option and leave Boston stuck above the tax line.
Most really lopsided deals happen at midyear just look at Chapman for Torres , and others. Cubs are satisfied bc it worked out with a WS but that is a lot for what 30-40 innings. Those trades happen in July not February.
They are trading for 5 years of a young OF that they expect to perform at a 4 WAR level. Verdugo produced 3.1 WAR in 106 games last year. They are also expecting to get an MLB ready starting pitcher with a high ceiling. Graterol’s elbow and shoulder might now be up to that, which is why this trade is being delayed..
The Dodgers may have to include Gray or Gonsolin and another prospect to get this deal done with Boston then pursue a separate trade with the Twins for Maeda. The Twins don’t have another MLB ready starter to send to Boston.
The Red Sox not only “overpay” they also blow the “caveat emptor” due dilligence part of things.
How on earth can you keep getting sold a bill of goods time and time again?
Seems like everyone in the world knew Verdugo had a bad back and Graterol had a bad elbow and shoulder.
Don’t these guys ever lookup this stuff on the internet before they make a trade?
Any logical reasonable operation would have known exactly what was going on with these guys before they announced this deal.
The fact that this issue is coming up now is a joke.
It frankly makes the whole Red Sox front office look inept.
Actually they are pulling a four way trade. The Dodgers and Red Sox need to lose payroll. The Angels can absorb some and the Twins can absorb some.
Just because you don’t see the complexities doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
And just because “you” see complexities doesn’t mean they do exist.
They exist. By your earlier post, you completely missed one of them.
You’re wasting your time on this website.
You should clearly be working as an Assistant MLB Complexity Analyst.
The world and certainly the MLB needs more people like you to thread needles and avert complexity issues now between 4 teams let alone 3.
Not to mention the complexity of how one teams complexity impacts numerous other teams complexities not withstanding their own.
All kidding aside you can find yourself chasing your tail on this issue LOL.
But you are definitely a bright guy and I appreciate your input.
Yes, Chasing your tail is correct. We have limited information and we try to put that together the best we can.
Calling it here and now. The trade is going to fall through.
I doubt it. It’s possible of course, but I doubt it.
“Calling it” just after you read an article suggesting exactly what you’re calling? Bold.
My contact in the Red Sox FO says the trade isn’t any closer to being done now than it was 3 days ago.
Plain and Simple, the Red Sox need to dump 43 mil in Salary, more than the Dodgers need Mookie Betts.
If I’m the Twins, I tell the Red Sox to go talk to the Dodgers about additional compensation. They traded Graterol to the Dodgers for Maeda & the Dodgers then flipped him as a part of the Betts’ package. I wouldn’t send the Red Sox anything in addition if I was the Twins.
That’s how I see it too.
There is no way the Twins give up more than Graterol for Maeda
Amen
This is turning out to be a disaster. I wonder if Boston wants a different player or if it’s an additional player. I think the Twins can afford to throw in a 2nd tier arm like Griffin Jax
This is turning out to be a disaster. I wonder if Boston wants a different player or if it’s an additional player. I think the Twins can afford to throw in a 2nd tier arm like Griffin Jax
Maeda is not enough of an impact piece for the twins to be throwing in additional pieces on TOP of their #3 prospect. Twins didn’t gain a ton in this deal, the Red Sox are the ones from the needy perspective needing to dump payroll. Twins have no reason to give up anyone additional and it’s a front office fail if they do.
This is going to go down as the big trade that almost was.
Minnesota should not be asked to add more to this deal. As Eric stated above, Minn traded Graterol to LA for Maeda, so he was technically Dodgers property when he was flipped to Boston. If LA likes the upside of Graterol, they should keep him and throw in Gonsolin instead. If LA thinks that is too much, Boston can send a lower level prospect back to balance the trade.
I don’t like the idea of the Sox getting Maeda. Their goal here is to get young, controllable assets with upside. Maeda only checks the controllable box. Boston definitely needs a quality, young pitcher back in this deal. I wonder if Boston would pivot back to San Diego if this deal falls completely apart. Wouldn’t that be something! It just can’t include Myers.
Except the Twins acquisition of Maeda also is not finalized. Meaning Graterol is still a Twin. If the Red Sox want more than Graterol from the Twins, the Twins would either have to pay up another prospect or bow out of the deal. Personally, if they’re only giving up Graterol in the deal, I like it for their side. But if I were them I’d just back out if Boston wants more. Boston and LA are the two teams who vehemently want the deal done. It helps the Twins, sure. But Boston gets their precious salary relief and prospects while LA gets the superstar. If I were the Twins I’d just say “This is what we’re willing to give, take it or leave it.”
What I am saying is if LA is happy with Graterol for Maeda, then it’s up to LA to switch out the prospects going back to Boston. If the sole reason for them trading Maeda was to get the prospect for Boston then maybe they don’t do this deal, but if I were LA (with their aging bullpen) I’d seriously consider doing this deal with Minn even if Boston walks away.
@dorothy – you answered your own question. Clearly LA isn’t interested in graterol or they would’ve done the deal previously.
Maeda is better depth because he’s capable of starting, got more pitch variety than graterol, and, doesn’t have the health question marks with the prior TJ and shoulder issues in the recent past.
For a well rounded roster, as LA I keep maeda over graterol.
All three teams agreeing to the terms of a three team deal is what makes a three team deal. This isn’t a two team then flip to a another party after the first party is established. That would be two, two team deals.
I knew this would be in Minnesota’s court.
Fully agree!
Na I think they should have LA throw in Bellinger, Seager, May, Kershaw and Gonsolin. Seems fair for a… oh sorry I’m being satirical. That’s not exactly how trades work. Twins knew of his condition and are held liable of their part of the deal. Even if the trade is through LA, if they can’t luster the deal everyone walks empty handed. So the extra piece has to be through them.
Maeda is also the most team friendly deal structure I’ve seen for a SP.
He literally gets paid based on health and production, because if he isn’t getting results, he doest start or hit innings thresholds.
You get control for almost as long as a rookie SP trade asset. You have a track record and know what he can put out against mlb caliber hitters. You only pay for what reasonable production comes out there. I’d love to slot him in at number 4 in boston’s rotation over some unknown quantity rookie.
This is ridiculous. The Twins can’t catch a break on trades. They get f’d on Dyson and get nothing out of it, and now because of the lazy Boston front office on not doing due diligence on everything that was public knowledge, that now it’s ok to just turn your back on the deal and everything is fine? Total bs on all of this. I hope Falvey and Levine don’t cave into this nonsense. If Bos and LA want this deal to get done, then they can’t be that demanding on the Twins or else it’s on the Dodgers to make up the difference and I’m sure they’re not thrilled on that.
This is some epic fan fiction
Right. This is a must do for the dodgers and Red Sox. The twins are a supplemental piece because they’re getting an ok arm out of the deal.
In no way, shape, or form, should they be funding this deal with their prospects without getting something better than Maeda in return
FACT
seeing the twins said that he would be in the bullpen for this year but moving to the rotation in 2021 how were the sox to know if there was a medical issue that makes the move to the rotation iffy until after the deal is worked out? no medical records can be looked at until the deal is agreed upon. and then all deals are subject to medical review.
You mean to tell me Boston didn’t go over medical stuff before they agreed to aquire a player? Or was the report of the trade premature?
Report was premature.
No trade happened. When they got to medical record review stage, something about graterol didn’t pass muster.
Remember Brady Aiken? 1st rd choice that the Astros didnt like how his tendon looked and felt it had a durability risk, signing didn’t happen?
Could be similar. It’s one thing to know TJ happened. It a whole other thing to examine what things inside the arm look like and determine what you feel the longevity is there based on what you see.
No team announced any trade. Someone leaked it due to the teams and fact betts/price were involved.
There was no final agreed trade, just a proposal subject to due diligence. Sort of like having an offer on a house, doing an inspection, then saying either you need a concession based on the findings or cancel it.
What? You do medicals after? Can you imagine the strategic risk of showing medicals of all the players that people might want?
When the trade was announced, it clearly stated that the deal was agreed to, pending medical reviews. So I don’t think anyone purposely did anything disingenuous here (like Preller did with Pomeranz in the Boston trade).
It sounds like the Boston medical staff reviewed Graterol’s films and determined his arm would not hold up long as a starter given the stress the extra innings would put on it. Teams don’t give out medical info ahead of time (it might even be illegal to do so with HIPPA laws), so this is just a case where a team followed its process and didn’t like what they found.
but they were getting him knowing the Twins had already publicly moved him to the bullpen.. so they were getting what the Twins sold as a reliever.. there was no promise he was going to start…
That makes no difference to Boston how Minnesota intended to use him in 2020. Boston is looking for a starting pitcher (which Graterol was all season in the minors). So they did this deal with the intention of him being in their rotation. After reviewing his medical records, the doctors determined that he wasn’t likely to hold up as a starter given what they saw, so that significantly reduced his value in Boston’s eyes. While Minnesota did say they planned to use him in the bullpen this year, they did not say “because his arm probably won’t hold up as a starter”. That is the issue here.
Also, the Twins said they planned to move him back into the rotation in 2021, but felt he could help the team more as a reliever in 2020.
I wouldn’t doubt that the report was premature. The goal of the media isn’t to be factual anymore, it’s more about who can report it first.
hand red sox cheaters some spare change!
this deal doesnt happen. Too much negative reaction from the fan base.
The deals are agreed upon before seeing any official medical reports. That’s why the players must pass the physicals post agreement.
Gotta love the jump-the-gun Picture of Mookie in the Dodgers home uniform yet the blurred out background is really Fenway.
Do you guys like these Photoshopped anticipatory pics? I don’t think I do.
Boom goes the dynamite! Wilmer Flores is crying somewhere right now..
I think the deal still gets done. Dodgers throw in a couple of lower tier prospects like Marshall Kasowski and Conner Wong and the deal is done.
Alright now I officially don’t like Boston, this is a trade you agreed to. Now you’re trying to pull some BS when a guy passed his physical and you think you can get more? Manfred needs to step in and finalize this thing. A deal is a deal.
Did Graterol pass his physical? I haven’t seen those reports.
The deal was agreed to, pending medical reviews. Clearly stated by all parties when they announced this deal. With some trades, they don’t announce it ahead of time so they can get the medical reviews done before making it public. Since this trade was so high profile and had media swarming every day for updates, they released the announcement with the caveat of medical reviews were pending before the deal was officially finalized. Nothing disingenuous about it.
Keep dreaming Christian. A trade is always done pending a physical
just because a player passes his teams physical it doesnt mean there is nothing wrong with him. Could be that the twins said yes he can start and the physical says he cant start for a couple of years and needs to be babied in the bullpen. that would make it worth holding up for the sox.
and the infamous player to be named later.. or as I call them the PBJS ( peanutbutter and Jelly sandwich..)
The Twins front office clowns try to pull one over on Red Sox nation. Now they’re going to have to phony up more for a slightly above average journeyman pitcher.
Twins had announced they were moving him to the pen over a week ago… he wasn’t promised as a starter.. that wasn’t where the Twins had him slotted..
And what the twins felt they needed to slot him as has nothing to do with anything here.
Graterol spent his minors time as a starter. Boston needs and wants a starter.
Chris sale was a starter in the minors. Chicago had him start out as a reliever. Was that supposed to mean he wasn’t capable of ever being a starter and everyone was supposed to assume that?
Clearly no.
Medical review/diligence is to make sure a player’s medical condition meets what a team expected to get in the deal.
Apparently there is (some) unknown issue here that we aren’t told due to confidentiality/privacy.
All that matters is, one party said the medical review wasn’t satisfactory. Now the other parties have to decide what to offer to offset the objection.
Starting to sound like this trade may not happen. Everyone back to their original teams.
Braves need to swoop in and blow this up. They can and it’s in their interest come October. Get a 3 way going and include San Diego – to make LAD’s season a long and difficult one. Give Red Sox a young starter with high ceiling and have SD pitch in a solid high level OF prospect. SD sends 1 or 2 low level high upside players to Braves to replenish low level pipeline. Mookie to SD. Sox can send Price in separate deal or include to land with Braves and $$$ offset. Ender can go to Sox
Angler – in your scenario who gets stuck with myers, or more importantly, who absorbs the salary?
SD isn’t taking mookie’s $$$ with wil’s $$$ on the books.
BOS doesn’t want the $$$, it’s the only, ONLY real reason to trade betts, to clear the payroll and swap into cheaper controllable players while getting under the cbt line.
ATL isn’t giving away money for free in addition to a mlb ready SP, then only getting back two really low level prospects in return.
That deal blows up over myers $$$.
not really if the sox took myers and money from SD and atlanta took less money from the sox for price could still work out close to the same amount below tax threshold for sox.
Boston needs to complete this deal more than the other teams. if I’m the dodgers or twins i know that. have the twins throw in their 30th ranked prospect so Boston can save face and call it a day.
Boston can’t complete the deal without getting a SP to plug into the rotation. There’s a hole there and it needs to be filled.
You’ve got a better chance of boston cutting MIN out of the deal and taking maeda plus a very low ranked la prospect back instead of graterol and a lottery pick.
If graterol can’t stand up to being a SP he can’t fill boston’s requirement for the trade.
In an ideal world you’d like to think when a deal is reported that the deal has been done and that the press are reporting the deal correctly and that due diligence has been done on each player’s health before it’s released to the press.
You’d also like to think that a reporter could get each team on the record of what actually happened rather than what’s just banter.
But I guess that’s asking too much.
At this point I don’t know what to believe until a deal is actually signed on paper.
So I’m going to wait until I see the teams actually signing a legal document making a trade official.
Guess this is a lesson for all of us on this website.
It’s called TRADE RUMORS and not TRADE FACTS.
The media actually was spot on when they reported this deal. It clearly stated that a deal had been agreed to PENDING MEDICAL REVIEWS. With all the interest and media coverage around this, it’s not surprising it was announced ‘early’ as many other sizable MLB trade have been in the past. It’s rare that teams find medical concerns that could unwind the deal but certainly not unprecedented.
It’s just ODD that this has become an issue.
And yes, as you correctly stated above, PENDING MEDICAL REVIEWS.
But it just looks so bad the the Red Sox, Twins and Dodgers either don’t really KNOW everything about a player beforehand or that maybe they are deceiving each other.
It brings to mind the due diligence on Aaron Hernandez from the Patriots and how much effort each team puts into investigating each player thoroughly beforehand.
And yet here we are?
Is it asking too much that the medical reviews be done before a deal is announced?
What’s the point of announcing a deal when it’s not a deal?
It’s counting your chickens before they hatch.
And to see all that potentially wasted “expert analysis” on how the Dodgers have already won the World Series with this trade.
It just makes everyone look bad.
Now the deal has to get done because it’s been announced.
Or everyone has egg on their face.
So in essence we may get a bad deal just to save face?
Normally the medical review is just a formality. It looks like the Twins were saying something about Graterol that the medical records are not saying. Personally it looks to me like the Twins said yeah he could start for you this year and the medical report says no to starting for at least a year if ever. So my guess is the Sox are asking for another minor league player to make up the difference in him being a reliever and not a starter. Now there may be a chance that he could start but if that chance is 2-3 years away then the deal makes no sense as is.
If this falls apart can you imagine the players having to go back to their original teams? Mookie would be fine and leave at the end of the season. Price on the other hand would be as disgruntled as any player possibly could…..it’s going to be interesting
Price has known all offseason his deal was being shopped. There’s been plenty of stories. He’s been quoted giving the standard lines about there being a business side to things and you control what you can, go along with what you cant.
Why don’t the Red Sox just get Maeda instead of Gatorade?
They’ll essentially be getting Price-like production based on his last 2 seasons.
“Why don’t the Red Sox just get Maeda instead of Gatorade?”
Maybe they’re dehydrated, or even just thirsty?
Probably because of the potential 12 million dollar salary.
Which, again, is another reason twins hold the cards in this deal and shouldn’t be pointing up more prospects.
As a RS fan, I’d be open to that. I’d rather have a healthy Gaterade, even with the question of whether or not he’d be a starter, than Maeda. But I also wouldn’t make it a deal-breaker. And like I said earlier, if I could arrange to have LAD throw in either Joc or Stripling, I’d be all over it.
If Maeda to the Twins was a seperate trade then the Twins are not liable to add compensation to the Red Sox the Dodgers are. Perhaps knowing this is why the Dodgers are trying to get additional prospects from the Angels in the Joc Pederson trade.
My speculation is this:
Dodgers offered verdugo to the red sox plus maeda. Either the sox or dodgers, at boston’s lack of interest in maeda, discussed what MIN would offer for maeda.
Mechanically picture maeda as passing through boston for trade purposes, but effectively moves LA->MIN.
Based on the range of offers, boston was able to state what they would be interested in accepting from MIN.
Upon completing medical review, boston decided graterol (their identified return) failed to meet medical expectations, and isn’t sufficient return for Maeda as the balance of their compensation.
That is why the ask is from MIN, and not LA.
Just my guess.
Now mechanically picture Chain Bloom hanging up on the Dodgers FO in the first place, and high-fiving his assistant.
The Red Sox already had a great deal on the table. Now they want more?
Why are the Twins even involved!!?? The Dodgers are way overpaying the Twins for this “prospect” (who’s really fat).
I just don’t get how the Twins shoehorned themselves into this deal and came away like bank robbers!
The Dodgers aren’t getting him. The Red Sox are. If it goes through that is…
Says they guy who commented about the players weight?! Graterol has a 100 mph heater!
@jorge
The Dodgers are way overpaying the Twins for this “prospect” (who’s really fat).
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He’s not really fat. He’s Clemens or Joba Chamberlain type of fat.
The famous PLAYER TO BE NAMED LATER ………. Crash Davis
jessecc08 above lays out the most significant fact that is driving discussions at this point: the Red Sox need a trade to take place more than the other two teams. The Twins and LAD knew that fact going into these negotiations and that fact hasn’t changed.
The LAD acquired Graterol for Maeda because Graterol is the player that Bloom wanted in addition to Verdugo to finalize this deal. The LAD knew even less than Bloom about Graterol’s medicals because they had no interest in acquiring him for any purpose other than to satisfy Bloom. Bloom has every right to want something more or in place of Graterol but he needs to look to the Twins, not the LAD. If the Twins are unwilling to satisfy Mr. Bloom then he needs to turn to Mr. Friedman and ask for something comparable to Maeda but not more. If Bloom wanted Maeda, the deal would have been consummated long ago. The LAD may well be willing to keep Maeda and offer Bloom a player that they, the LAD, value to be equal to or less then Maeda. The bottom line is that Friedman needs this deal to take place far less than Bloom. My money is on Mr. Bloom blinking before Mr. Friedman.
The. Dodgers. Never. Acquired. Graterol.
With all due respect, I think we are saying the same thing about Graterol. The RS issues over Graterol’s medical condition are with the Twins–not the LAD. WE may disagree over how motivated/compelled/pressured each team is to make a deal; but, the RS need to deal with the Twins if they have a problem now about Graterol being insufficient compensation for them to make this trade.
Dude, that’s not how a three team deal works. You make it seem like MIN doesn’t know there’s something going on between LAD and BOS. Or like MIN is holding on line two for LAD to find out BOS wants Graterol.
“You make it seem like MIN doesn’t know there’s something going on between LAD and BOS”…
No, actually I am saying the opposite. In these negotiations, the Twins knew full well that Graterol was of interest to the RS–not the LAD. The RS problem is with the Twins, not the LAD. It’s the RS who most want/need this deal. The LAD have all the leverage as the RS do not want to delay trading Mookie and: 1) being unable to reset their tax liability and, 2) maximize Mookie’s value by ensuring he caries a comp pick with him if he doesn’t re-sign with the team that trades for him.
Boston’s front office is a joke. Graterol’s (past) arm and shoulder issues are public knowledge. The Twins also have said he will not be starting this year and coming out of the pen. Why are Sox throwing up the red flag now? The owner must have felt the heat from the fans and told the gm to renegotiate.
There’s nothing to say it’s the fact there was a TJ or a shoulder issue itself that is the dealbreaker.
Many players have TJ and have no lingering effects after. Likewise, players have shoulder issues that dont affect their future.
Every body is slightly different though. there’s internal structural issues you can’t read about in the news, you need to review imaging and reports, maybe examine the player.
My favorite comp is Brady Aiken was drafted 1st and expected to be capable of playing in mlb. Then imaging showed internal structure that (to the experts examining it) led them to give an opinion there was too much risk it wouldn’t hold up to the rigors of being a SP. Ultimately, he wasn’t signed.
You want to blame someone in your head, fine. But there’s a reason there’s a medical review contingency in these deals. To get mad at someone for exercising the rights they bargained into a deal is kind of ridiculous IMO, but, to each their own.
Why are Sox throwing up the red flag now?
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What happens in a trade is that, after the teams agree to a trade, they exchange the medical reports on the players. Verdugo was all types of hurt at the end of the year, but apparently the RS doctors saw no l/t concerns.
But something on Gatorade’s MRIs look worse than expected. The idea of his injuries being public knowledge are absolutely meaningless.
The enemy of the good is the perfect. The Red Sox have, with the initial trade, accomplished their primary goal of offloading contracts and getting some upside. Will they overreach and have someone walk away, or will they be able to extract more?
If the Twins add another top 15 prospect with Graterol, we riot in the streets Hancock.
If I’m the twins im not adding anything. They are getting the least benefit of anyone. Either the dodgers pay up or deal is off.
I believe the dodgers will pay up. The Dodgers fans expect mookie, sox fans are happy keeping mookie. Let’s not pretend like the sox are poor.
Perhaps they pivot back to the padres though that wouldn’t get them under the cap but would provide the talent they need.
You’re joking. Dodgers least to blame here. Sox picked out their prospect who had a history. Sox dealing in bad faith or Twins hiding other things on medical? Probably neither but I don’t see how the Dodgers pony up more. Sox more desperate to cut payroll. Maybe getting cold feet. Anyhow as a fan I would not mind pulling the trade back. I like Betts but I would bet that the Dodgers don’t re-sign him if they traded for him sh o an expensive rental. Plus I don’t like the Pederson-Stripling trade do maybe it’s best it didn’t work out.
Didnt blame the dodgers but I see them as the team to blink.
Their fans already have betts in the lineup. Sox fans want to protest.
Twins certainly dont have much skin in the game.
Dodgers will give in or no deal. That will hinge on how high of a quality prospect do the sox want.
Dodgers are in a rough spot here.
@Simodine This move is being driven by the Red Sox. The Dodgers will win their division with or without this move. The Red Sox will not win their division with or without this move. The Dodgers are the only possible landing spot for Betts and half of Price’s annual contract. If the Red Sox cannot make this move than the are stuck over the luxury tax. and have no flexibility moving forward. The only other possible destination was the Padres where the Red Sox would need to take the Wil Myers contract, keep Price and still be over the tax threshold. The Red Sox need this deal to happen more than the Dodgers.if they want a contending team in the near future.
False.
The Red Sox can go over the luxury tax this season and then be under it next season.
They will just have to pay up in 2020..
After this year, the Sox will have $45 MM – $70 MM coming off of the books (Betts, JBJ, likely JDM, Perez and Workman), They can easily be under the tax.
They can also trade Price (2 years left), Eovaldi (2 years left) and the horrible Castillo contract ends (this is only a cash flow situation, but they will save $14 MM in cash).
If the Twins/Dodgers don’t sweeten the pot? The Sox should just keep Mookie and Price and try to make the playoffs.
Unless the NL goes to the DH next year, I doubt JDM will opt out. And if the Red Sox get under the cap this year, they’ll have a much better chance of resigning Betts.
Joc would probably play LF with Verdugo in RF and Benny in CF if he is still with the Sox Opening Day. I like Maeda as a #4 starter..
Most AL pitchers are RHanded–so more lefty bats are fine with me.
Benny, Xander, JDM, Joc, Devers, Verdugo, Chavis @ 2 B, Moreland, Vazquez.
So scratch Graeterol or the Dodgers can keep him for a prospect–we get Vertugo and Pederson for Price and Betts. We could take Stripling for a Sox PTBNL.
No, Joc would not play LF because the Red Sox aren’t trading for any one-year rentals. If they wanted an established player with one year left on his contract they would keep the one they have.
If Graterol is not a satisfactory pitching prospect for Boston, Twins should immediately pull him out of a deal and stand pat until a team comes calling with another offer. I expect Boston specifically requested him for the deal, Twins didn’t “push” him on Boston. I still think Boston is making adjustments to their plans as a result of Paxton’s injury. They currently employ several pitchers with injury history.
Fell off track at last sentence – I had meant that Boston currently has several pitchers with previous arm troubles and has also employed them in the past. So it seems interesting that they are now dissatisfied with Graterol. Maybe Texas would flip Allard to Boston and take Maeda.
Finlander- without knowing what about the medical review was unsatisfactory we really don’t know.
I doubt it’s the fact there was TJ in and of itself because, as you say, every club has employed pitchers with prior arm issues.
My assumption would be that it is either how the arm healed from the procedure, or, how something inside looked regarding likelihood of reinjury and/or probable inability to withstand sustained workload that concerned them.
My guess is that the Twins had previously inquired on Maeda’s availability, and were told no. Then the RS insisted that LA take Price. That’s a better fit for LA than Maeda, so the LAD decided that, instead of them kicking in a second prospect like Downs, they could get Minny to do so.
For all we know, maybe MN already offered Gatorade to LAD in exchange for Maeda.
And I think there is a decidedly non-zero chance that you are right on Paxton. If the RS, for example, thought they were 8 games back, the loss of a not-easily replaced guy like Paxton might cut that down to 3 games back, and maybe worth changing plans for.
I’ve been saying this since before the trade. If we add Verdugo & Joc, instead of Betts & JBJ, that might be the best lineup in BB. Our weakest hitter might be Chavis, and he could hit 25-30 HRs.
But we’d need a pitcher back, and i would pay up for either Maeda or Stripling. Along with a top-rated offense, a rotation of Sale, ERod, Eovaldi, Maeda & Perez would re-define thinness, but would be more than reasonable, until injuries hit.
Graterol is the the more crucial piece for the Sox. It was up to the Dodgers to wedge him away. Verdugo will be backing up Rusney Castillo in the minors. Best player dealt Mookie second best Graterol.
Pass the duchie ‘pon the left hand side Zzodikoff.
“Mr. Zzodikoff “what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I’ve ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having heard it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!”
Mookie – 27.7m; Price 32m (x3)
If we shift all of mookie and pay down the thrown around numbers of 48m on price, boston sheds 43.7m to lad.
If you take back verdugo (~500k), joc (8.5m?), and maeda (as a SP just assume he hits 11m of ~14m possible max) thats 20m in new commitments.
But you then at the least can shed 8m+ of jbj by just releasing him if you cant trade him, since arb contracts aren’t fully guaranteed yet.
So, -43.7 in trade, -8m jbj, +20m in trade. Sox drop 31.7 in salary commitments towards cbt, and, could lower that by just slightly controlling how many incentives maeda is allowed to hit this one season.
You flip joc at the deadline if you’re out of contention, you save more. Then JDM picks up a little corner OF with someone else. Big deal.
Point is, sox could take those guys on if they and LAD wanted to cut out the middlemen.
The. Red. Sox. Aren’t. Taking. Joc. Pederson. In. A. Mookie. Betts. Trade.
And I’m pretty sure deliberately stopping Maeda from hitting his incentives is against the rules.
Not against the rules whatsoever Dodgers have done it the last 3 years
What rules. Don’t sign a contract loaded with incentives like that. You knew what you were getting into. Teams limit inning use all the time and players are really powerless to stop them!
Incentives or not, teams are expected to act in good faith wrt vesting options and milestone bonuses.
Against the rules haha. They are his employer. They can move him to bullpen or not play him at all. On top of that he signed the contract with those incentives in it.
Yes. They. Are. If. Available.
At this point, you are just being obstinate. Even if they have no chance, which certainly would have, Maeda is a good-priced SP, which they need, with 4 years of control.
And Joc would still be a fine trade chip come July.
@JoeBrady Joc is basically a known quantity at this point. At the deadline, he will be a known quantity with only 33% as much club control remaining and that the acquiring team can no longer QO.
His trade value is going to drop like a rock between now and the deadline. Not a guy you trade for to be able to flip in July. Like with Betts, you basically have to win a championship in 2020 to make trading for Joc Pederson worth it.
A yes or no will suffice. Will Pederson be worth more, or less, or the same as Castellanos at the trade deadline? He is probably a better players, but even if he is equal, Castellanos still got a decent return.
Joe, I don’t know what answer you are looking for, but less.
BTW does Castillo’s 44million count against the cap?
What cap.
If by Castillo you mean Rusney Castillo in BOS, and by cap you mean the CBT, and by $44m you mean $14m in 2020 salary, the answer is no, it doesn’t count unless he is added back on the 40 man roster.
It was part of a grandfathered exception to a former CBA which couldn’t happen anymore.
There’s no cap
Can I infer that that this MEDICAL REVIEW hangup is designed to extort LAD into giving up more since the world has anointed them world champions in 2020 and now they can’t possibly back out of the deal with expectations that high?
The David Price jinx is already getting the better of LAD.
What if this deal goes through and the Dodgers don’t win?
What if they don’t even make the playoffs?
What if Boston wins it all after dumping Betts and Price?
Imagine Draft Kings gaming bets on that unlikely scenario.
Seriously, how many teams can spend a guaranteed $78MM for a one year rental and a 34 year old pitcher?
Twins thinking they can power their way out of this is funny.
Power their way out of this?? Huh?
Yeah, like the deal is too important for Minnesota to object adding a piece to rectify the discovered inaccuracy. I’m saying they don’t have the power in this case to back off and forfeit the entire deal. I’m saying that Minnesota is the used car Salesman without a signature in this thing.
Seriously, how many teams can spend a guaranteed $78MM
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Actually, their combined salaries are only ~ $43M this year.
Actually, the guaranteed money plus the one year rental works out to be a little more than just this year’s numbers.
Sure, but that’s for two more years after this one. It’s $16M per, which everyone can afford, not just the LAD.
Actually, it is $43M not $78M. RS are sending approximately $50M to Dodgers.
Not many that’s why at around 16m (price) per the sox are better off trading them separately.
Brings in more teams. Certainly a team like the angles would have interest at that aav for price.
Can still get the same or greater returns for betts.
This deal just looks bad for the sox.
As a RS fan, I think the deal looks good for us.
*** THE SOLUTION *** Twins should get creative and include the second prospect Boston requires but ask for Ross Stripling along with Kenta Maeda in return. This would be ideal for a team in need of starting pitching. I really hope this happens!
Not much of a solution since Stripling is already part of a deal with the Angels…..
Get real! And why would the LAD agree to do that?
The dodgers should simply send more to Boston. The twins already gave up too much for what they are getting in this deal. It’s not rocket science. Dodgers have the prospect capital anyways. They can afford to let a least 1 go considering the crazy return they are getting
For a team that needs a solid starter Maeda is a good addition. He is a known quantity, a proven performer. Graterol looks like he has great stuff, but he’s not proven and has had shoulder issues. He could be a great pitcher, he could be a complete bust because of the shoulder. He’s a gamble.
No, the Dodgers should not.
Well, you can’t.
Oh man how awkward would it be for this deal to fall through and Mookie & Price have to report to spring training next week lol
I don’t think so.
Mookie wanted to stay in Boston:
boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2020/02/05/mookie…
The Red Sox fans want Mookie to stay in Boston and he will be absolutely fawned over this season.
David Price has been crabby for 4 seasons. He pitched the Sox to a World Series title after he was lustily booed in the 2018 Divisional Series versus the Yankees (I should know, I was there).
apnews.com/36c06ab3ff8f4445bf35488faee56d68/David-…
“Price trudged off the field to a chorus of boos from the Red Sox fans who had cheered him when he took the mound just an inning prior.”
So he will be content making his $32 MM per season.
I really hope the Sox get cold feet and the trade falls through.
You should really hope that Boston gets under the cap and then resigns Betts and they get out from under the Price contract.
There is no ‘cap’, there are luxury tax penalties.
The Boston owners make plenty of money and the Sox are not getting rid of the entire Price contract.
After this season? The Sox will only have two years left of Price and they can always trade him next year.
The Sox can pay the luxury tax bill this season AND re-sign Mookie Betts.
They can also cut JBJ (save $11 MM) and trade JDM (save $23.75 MM) and will be under the luxury tax.
Verdugo and an overweight pitcher with a bad shoulder?
I would rather have Betts and Price.
OK, luxury tax threshold, you really didn’t understand what I meant? And you want to spend someone else’s money the way you seem fit.
It doesn’t matter how you want to spend their money, the only thing that matters is how the Red Sox want to spend their money. And they seem not to want to spend millions of extra dollars on taxes when they can reset the cap (oh sorry, luxury tax) this year.
“There is no ‘cap’, there are luxury tax penalties.”
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Y’all need to stop with this. Everyone in here, or maybe 99% of them, know exactly what people are talking about when the term ‘cap’ is used.
Boston should definitely do their best to ensure this deal does not fall through at this point. Take it from a Jays Fan, we held onto Donaldson heading into 2018 season and he got injured, all we received for him was a pitcher (Merryweather ) who coming off TJ who has only pitched a few minor league innings in 2 years. Rumours have it that the Cards offered Flaherty in the off-season prior=Would LOVE to have him in our rotation now. Can you imagine the backlash now after all the media attention to this deal ,if it falls through and bad luck strikes and Betts gets injured and has no takers at the dead-line. Sox fans who like to see this deal cancelled- careful what you wish for!
I said that at the time, and the same with Baltimore & Machado. The risk is virtually 100% on the downside. I still remember all the posts from the Pirates fans. They that, if the LAD didn’t want to pay an exorbitant price for Vazquez, that PT should just hold onto him.
IMO, if you decide to trade a player, you follow through
Twins should NOT give anything else period! The pitcher we are sending has command of four pitches. Reaches 100. Twins should have kept him
I hope they keep him!
I would rather the Sox deal with the Dodgers directly with their prospects.
Or better yet, have the trade fall completely apart.
If he really had four pitches and reached 100, you’d be starting him instead of Maeda. He has two pitches, and a fringy 3rd.
What’s with the fake photo of Betts in Dodger blue? Not cool. Journalistic outlets should not be legitimizing fake images, even if it’s just for fun.
You must be the life of the party
We’ve come a long way since the air-brushed Topps cards of the 1970s!
I have an airbrushed Nolan Ryan card when he was traded to the Angels.
From afar, this delay looks like nothing more than Boston panicking. Nothing changed in regards to Graterol’s health status. Everything they know now they knew before. But it is a huge trade and they are having second thoughts. They want to get under the luxury threshold, and this trade makes sense for that. It sounds like Betts wants to hit free agency so he will walk at the end of this season. They can hang on to him and hope for a wild card, or trade him for some good, much cheaper guys and then take their shot at signing him as a FA. If they try the wait-and-see with the trade deadline the return will be far inferior.
Makes sense to me to trade him on multiple fronts, but I’m just a lowly fan.
Nothing changed in regards to Graterol’s health status. Everything they know now they knew before.
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Incorrect. Teams are not allowed to inspect another player’s medical records until they have agreed to a deal.
From the Twins standpoint this is Graterol for Maeda. Which is a fair trade despite what most Twins fans are saying. If Boston wants more in the deal they should be looking to LA for any additions. In reality the Dodgers got a pretty good deal in the original reported trade.
It’s not bad, given the team-friendly contract that Maeda signed. It’s hard to find good solid pitching for that low of a price.
Yep. Twins fans get caught up in the hype of this kid. I saw enough of him to feel it’s worth a gamble to trade him. And getting a proven MLB arm for him is a win for the Twins.
The Boston FO is a joke. Any casual Twins fan knows that Graterol has had arm issues and that the Twins’pitching coach said he’d be pitching out of the BP. This is a cheap ass face saving gesture after getting too little for Betts. I hope the Twins stick to their guns and don’t let the sign stealing Red Sox bully them. I’d rather the deal collapsed than give the Red Sox another penny.
Any casual Twins fan knows that Graterol has had arm issues
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Reading Rotoworld that Gaterol had TJS is not nearly the same as seeing the MRIs.
IRT the Twins sticking to their guns, as a RS fan, I’d prefer that as well. Graterol has a great arm, but the prospect of locking in a #3 like Madea is appealing to me.
Those darn sign-stealing Red Sox! Disband the franchise, that’ll show ’em.
PLEASE LORD LET THIS TRADE FALL APART
Any news on white Sox trading for arenado
$35M might be a bit steep for us to have a backup 3B.
3 way deal. Sounds like Friedman knew about Graeterol and wanted to loosen up more money for the Dodgers. Perhaps was willing to sweeten the deal with his former Rays friend, Bloom, without using Dodger prospects. The Sox probably didn’t want to take on Maeda and his potential salary.
So it appears Friedman and Bloom can resolve by adding Dodger prospects. to the Betts/ Price for Verdugo Transaction. It may be too late for the Dodgers to cancel the trade with the Angels.
If the Dodgers took JBJ and his $11. M contract–it would save face for Bloom and remove him from the Sox roster. Friedman could then release him. Complicated process.
This off season has been hilariously bad (for the MLB)
Actually in a way it’s been good. It’s attracted the attention of a lot of people who ordinarily wouldn’t give a dam about baseball. Even bad publicity can be good when you’re a sport that is losing viewers to the NFL, NBA, soccer, etc. ESPN caters to the other leagues more, so publicity can only help in grabbing more viewers.
I think it’s been great. The salaries have gone crazy, but it ain’t my money. AZ has announced their arrival. The NYY and LAD have substantially upped the ante on a West Coast/East Coast rivalry. The LAA have finally decided to compete. And the RS have taken a step back towards relevancy.
I am still hoping to see Stripling in there, even if the RS have to give something back.
But unless Gatorade is really hurt, which kind of kills MN’s part of the deal, then the whole issue can be washed away with an exchange of international money.
One more reason why the trading of draft choices should be allowed. It’s easier to settle on, say a 4th round draft pick, than to figure out if MN has to give up their #7 prospect.
This just sounds like a new GM probably a real smart guy looking at the medicals and seeing something he or his doctors don’t like. Bloom appears to be a meticulous individual some may say deliberate and just wants to make sure. Since we aren’t privy to what is in the medicals then we can’t know. It’s all just a guess. If they see something that indicates a future TOS surgery and that’s what they believe they better blow up the deal because you can’t take that chance. We just don’t know and probably never will unless the deal gets blown and Graterol needs TOS half way through next season then we will have a good idea why Bloom was so cautious of the medicals.
Twins should pull out of the deal and target Miami for starting pitching.
* yawn* wake me when this trade is really done.
This deal is taking forever..FOR…EVER
Interesting. If the Red Sox don’t like the medicals of Graterol, why do they get a second “top prospect”? Why not someone different? Looks like some 11th hour gamesmanship for a bigger return.
So, just so I’m clear. RS give out bad contracts to players like Sale & Eovaldi and their solution is to dump a player who is arguably one of the top five players in the game?
You have to ignore the name. They are trading one year of a 6.6 WAR player, for 5 and 6 years of two other players. That’s all there is to this.
No not really. The Sox are not willing to pay Mookie Betts the $420M for 10 years that he wants. He expects to be paid close to Mike a Trout $. Even if Sale and Evoldi did not receive new contracts they were not likely to pay Betts $420 for 10 to 12 years in which he would be 38 to 40 years old. They could keep him this year at his $27M and only trade Price and JBJ and get under their $208M to reset. That would include paying some of Price’s salary (50%).
I doubt any team would take on 50% of Price remaining contract and all of JBJ contract unless Boston included some of Bostons top remaining prospects or one of their best young players . What would be a teams incentive to help the Sox get rid of 2 x dead contracts without a sizable return.
sox are stupid. shouldve demanded lux or may. Dodgers schemed this. Good for them and their dynasty
No way they get Lux and probably not May. Cheap control for years of Verdugo is probably a fair deal for 1 year of Betts. Boston also gets Graterol and gets out from under half of Price’s albatross deal. I think they did just fine, all things considered.
Yeah, and why not ask for Smith and Downs as well? I mean, I guess we could ask for them, and maybe we did.
But we weren’t getting them. And it is silly to think that all we had to do was to ask them.
Holy crap people really love to over value their fav team’s players. Stripling is a swingman bullpen arm whos value is next to nothing on the dodgers roster, pederson is an expensive rental platoon outfielder coming off a career year, and Andy Pages is only the 29th best prospect on the dodgers. Regnifo will be a 23 year old middle infielder under team control for league minimum, comes with minor league options, and has plenty of upside. He holds a good amount of value to a team like the dodgers. He’s insurance for kike, taylor, and or seager/lux if either gets traded. Of course most fans wouldn’t understand that.
Kenta is a 4th or 5th starter, who gives up a top prospect, let alone 2 for that? Like trading for Joe Blanton and giving up Lux.
Maeda is a high #3, not a 4/5. I have no idea how some of you people come to these conclusions. Maeda actually ranks #39 in MLB over the past four years, That’s more like a #2.
Shove it Dodgers
I think where the deal got sideways is when you look back at where you wind up.
What we ultimately have is:
Betts for verdugo only.
Price +48m for graterol only.
You look at those as two separate trades and you feel there should at least be some lottery ticket or intl money with mookie. Then you say with that much money on price he’s a market value 3rd pitcher with upside. A poorly conditioned, broken, injury ridden, high risk potential-reliever-only isn’t really worth it.
Maybe that’s the realization bloom finally had. Other teams nudged him take a tiny step here, take a tiny step here, take a tiny step here… finally he looked back at where he wound up and said whoa… or, maybe the medicals on graterol are rrally that bad. Who knows.
Verdugo being involved in A sexual assault! Didn’t Bloom due his diligence on checking this guy out ? Are you telling me that the Fans and Boston Media are going to be okay with this? This is an utter disgrace in trading a top echelon player for a guy involved in this !!
beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-do…
From your article:
“Baldwin approached her and began fondling her breasts, then put his hand under her underwear, fondling her …… This wasn’t consensual, she told them. She was passing out during the act. He gave up trying when the rest of the group re-entered the room”
1-If it occurred, it was Baldwin.
2-If it occurred, it stopped when the rest of the group re-entered the room.
The implication of #2 being that Verdugo was not in the room.
Verdugo filmed it and did not attempt to stop it
1-The article mentions “One of the players filmed the girl’s beating”. It does not say that Verdugo filmed it.
2-Even if Verdugo was the one doing the filming, I’m not aware of any illegality of filming two people fighting.
So we know it was not Verdugo that sexually assaulted her. By her testimony, Verdugo was not in the room when she was sexually assaulted. We know someone filmed her fighting with some other girls, but we don’t know if it was Verdugo, and even if it was, it likely wasn’t illegal anyway.
“Verdugo was reportedly present for both the girl’s beating and for the sexual assault on the girl by Baldwin” It’s right there in bold print in the article.
“He gave up trying when the rest of the group re-entered the room, perhaps, she said, out of frustration.”
It’s right there, in some sort of print. She said ‘when they re-entered the room’. That pretty much implies that he had to be outside the room, in order to re-enter the room.
That article is a very slippery slope. Sounds like a witch hunt. If 1- someone is not present 2- has no prior or after the fact knowledge how can they in any reasonable sense be considered guilty of an offense! This smacks of being guilty before innocent. To me its a writer trying to make a name for herself.
There is no excusing the act describe it is vile -however writers should be very very careful they do not smear a young persons reputation without knowing all the facts.
If i am drinking with someone and i leave their presence and they then commit a crime without my knowledge what-so-ever how can i be guilty. !!!
I don’t want to be unsympathetic, but there just lacks a whole lot to find Verdugo guilty of anything, let alone anything guilty. According to related articles, the police did a thorough investigation, without filing charges.
One of the notes on one of the articles: “When detectives tried to continue the investigation by contacting her, she shut that down. She didn’t want to talk about it.” And that is probably not uncommon. But it’s a bit of a reach to find Verdugo guilty of anything.
Back when Chapman was accused, it turns out there was absolutely nothing to it, except for Chapman firing off his gun in his garage.
They need to ask for Jhoan Duran to begin to fill out our pitching depth in the farm system. Were in desperate need of pitching in both leagues.
You might get Duran in lieu of Graterol, but not both unless you’re planning on sending Mookie and Price to Minnesota instead of LA
The Twins should pull out of this deal. The Red Sox we’re willing to do the deal for one top 10 prospect from the Twins but now they want a second. Everyone with half a brain knows Graterol has a history of injuries and was projected as a reliever. This is more about the public outrage at how little the Sox we’re getting in return for Betts. I hope teams think twice before dealing with those cheating Red Sox!
Rumor mill has it Graterol showed up at physical grossly overweight. So Red Sox get Sandoval and Thornburg in one player. Hope Twins do pull out.
Do players show up for physicals? I thought the teams just exchange medical records?
Yep Mr Griggs. Twins have no obligation to bail the Sox out of their tax crisis and restock their miserable farm system. And why do the Sox care about getting a starter back when they are punting on 2020 anyway?
No matter which way you spin this, it is Ugly and bad because he did not stop it and try to help the girl. This is how these knuckleheads get themselves into situations like this. Why do you think the Dodgers got rid of Baldwin? There were other prospects you could have gotten than this knucklehead! How about a second baseman because Pedroia is kidding himself with this ridiculous comeback, going on the third season. How about a starter,
“because he did not stop it and try to help the girl.”
——————————————————
According to the girl, “He (presumably Baldwin) gave up trying when the rest of the group re-entered the room, This means he wasn’t in the room.
This is not going to be good for Bloom in picking this guy up
Rumor mill has it Graterol showed up at physical grossly overweight. So Red Sox get Sandoval and Thornburg in one player. Hope Twins do pull out.
He’s been a big boy for few years now, like 260s. He gained the weight years ago.
He was at Twinsfest in late January and no one reported a weight gain from where he was before so I’m assuming nothing has changed with that. And they definitely would report a noticeable weight gain, as they always do with Sano.
Here’s a good one by Bill James:
In a series of tweets by Bill James from Nov 8, 2018, some of which were later deleted, James challenged on social media “to explain why a player making $3 million a year is underpaid” “If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them,” James continued. “The game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever. The players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are.”
Yet last nite I saw a report on the MLB network that Bill James said “The whole idea of building a championship team is to acquire players like [Mookie Betts]. It’s a sad day when you have to give one away.”
So according to Bill James Mookie is only worth $3M per year for tops 12 years.
By my math that’s $36M,
How does that square with James’s comments above and Bett’s reported failure to accept a $300M deal Boston offered him?
Is it any wonder why the man is no longer with Boston as an adviser?
Thank God we have John Henry as owner in Boston. He obviously knows how to make money and if he thought Betts was worth a reported $420M that Betts wanted then he would have signed him.
Logic would tell you that John Henry thought he could get a better deal elsewhere and I agree.
If Tampa and Oakland can both have better records in 2019 than Boston with a payroll a fraction of Bostons then it doesn’t take a genius to see that he has an overpaid team. I compliment him on having the balls to stand up to those that have put him down for trading away a possible Hall of Famer.
Having a Hall of Famer is no guarantee you will win a World Series or even make the playoffs.
If it did Mookie would have gotten Boston to the playoffs in 2019.
Baseball is a team sport. A team requires balance to win. If you overpay 1 player at the expense of the rest of the team then you’ll have weaknesses, resentment and a lack of incentive on your team.
So why not raise the CBT threshold?
Bad idea for the fans.
They’ll pay a fortune to watch a game.
If you haven’t noticed many teams stands are empty now.
So we traded a All Star MVP who helps feed the homeless in Boston and is Community Involved for a guy who filmed a horrible act and another pitcher who is overweight coming off Tommy John Surgery and two months of shoulder problems. In Tampa Bay where no one cares about baseball ⚾️ this might be okay but not in Boston
So if no one in Tampa Bay cares about baseball, with attendance and payroll a fraction of Boston’s, then how did Tampa have a better record than Boston in 2019?
And lets not forget that “every other team in MLB baseball” had a lower payroll than Boston in 2019?
Are you saying that the answer is to pay a player like Betts even more money to lose?
Please explain your plan on how Boston wins with one of the highest payroll in baseball already.
I know …. just keep spending more ….. right?
A winning team requires balance and assuming they aren’t outspent, which Boston clearly wasn’t, then the solution logically has to be that we could be doing much better in Boston for what we are spending.
Tough to see it but the man was offered $300 M and turned it down. If someone can pay him that level of money and win then good luck to them.
As I said above:
“Having a Hall of Famer is no guarantee you will win a World Series or even make the playoffs.
If it did Mookie would have gotten Boston to the playoffs in 2019.”
You are about to trade one of the best players at his position since Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski for a Character Flawed Ball Player who has had discipline problems with the Dodgers and an injured overweight pitcher coming off Tommy John Surgery! You okay with that? I’m not and we should keep our own home grown player Mookie Betts!!!
1-Unless you have proof that Verdugo filmed the fight, then you shouldn’t accuse him. Nothing I have read says it was Verdugo. And filming the fight is in poor taste, but not illegal.
2-While he had TJS and had a shoulder impingement, he also throws 100, and was healthy enough to strike out two Yanks in the playoffs in one inning.
It wasn’t a fight it was a sexual assault on a minor.
You have to read the article. Or you have to take my word on it. Or you have to come up with a different article.
There was a fight between the victim and two other girls. Someone filmed it. We don’t know who. But even if Verdugo filmed it, I doubt it was illegal.
There was a sexual assault, but the victim says it was Baldwin.
As this is a serious matter, you should read up on it before accusing Verdugo.
You see the medicals on the pitcher you want and you don’t like them so be it trade is nullified it happens. The Twins are kicked out of the deal and the Dodgers and Red Sox try and work it out if they can’t so be it. Walk away just walk away.
Barstool is reporting (take that with a grain of salt) that this has more to do with the Verdugo Snapchat controversy.
What was that?
What does having a better record have to do with attendance? The Fans in Tampa Bay fo not support the Rays period
It’s a good thing they won or they would have lost.
What does having a better record have to do with attendance? The Fans in Tampa Bay fo not support the Rays period
What does having a better record have to do with attendance? The Fans in Tampa Bay fo not support the Rays period
Well you answered your own question.
If, according to you, a better record has nothing to do with attendance then the fans will still come to see the Red Sox if they lose.
So why pay top dollar for a losing team?
The fans are coming anyway.
If they came to see Betts “lose” last year they’ll come if they lose without him.
But all kidding aside.
Maybe if they win without him fans will come too?
Maybe? What do you think? Is that possible?
Ted Williams and Carl Yastrzemski, 2 great Hall of Fame players.
Neither great player ever won a World Series.
I’m old enough to remember going to games when the stands at Fenway were always empty. I’m talking 2000 people with Yaz in 1963.
Attendance finally turned around with the 1967 season.
The Impossible Dream.
So you can thank Yaz for baseball mania in Boston.
Yaz was and still is the best.
A great player and always a class act..
Have some confidence in John Henry.
The man has won more World Series (4) in the last 15 years than anyone else.
Maybe the man knows what he’s doing.
No one comes to see Tamp Bay play and they gave a cheap payroll because of that
It ain’t over til it’s over right?
Nobody goes there anymore because they’re too good. Right?
An additional top prospect? Oh sure, Boston, who’d you have in mind–Kirilloff? Lewis? Get out of here with that BS.
“The trade is expected to become official today, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets”
I read this as “Check back in June”.
“The trade is expected to become official today…”
We determined that that was a lie.
Twins run away from this. Get a pitcher later with one of your excess shortstop/outfield options.
The Red Sox are a train wreck if this trade goes down or if it does not go down. Looks like Bloom does not know what he is doing and Henry is letting him do this!
You always provide such in-depth informative insightful analysis.
It’s truly amazing you’re gracing us with your expertise and not working as a GM.
I mean I keep re-reading all of your above comments and I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the next comment.
Some are so good and so classic that they were posted 3 times.
Keep up the great work.
If not a career as a GM you certainly have a career as a baseball journalist.