Plenty of fans and folks in the game are no doubt frustrated by the uncertainty hanging over a dramatic duo of prospective trades centered around superstar Mookie Betts. MLBPA chief Tony Clark made clear that he’s got even bigger problems with the situation in a statement today.
“The proposed trades between the Dodgers, Red Sox, Twins, and Angels need to be resolved without further delay,” Clark says in the statement. “The events of this last week have unfairly put several Players’ lives in a state of limbo.”
Clark is referring, of course, to (a) the proposed three-team swap between the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Twins that involves Betts, David Price, Kenta Maeda, Alex Verdugo, and Brusdar Graterol; and (b) the cross-town deal that would send Joc Pederson and Ross Stripling to the Angels in exchange for Luis Rengifo, with other pre-MLB players also involved. These trades were reported on Tuesday but remain unresolved.
The slow speed of concluding the dealmaking isn’t the only thing that drew Clark’s ire. Reports have indicated that issues surrounding the health of Graterol gummed up the swaps. Clark is understandably displeased with those disclosures and the role they’ve played in keeping these players in limbo.
Clark continued: “The unethical leaking of medical information as well as the perversion of the salary arbitration process serve as continued reminders that too often Players are treated as commodities by those running the game.”
Uber-agent Scott Boras, who reps Graterol, also chimed in (via Jon Heyman of MLB Network, on Twitter). He notes that the young flamethrower was operating at full tilt late last season and knocked the Red Sox’ apparent medical concerns. “They’re relying on a cursory medical record review,” says Boras, “yet noted orthopedic doctors who saw him say there’s no issue going forward.”
These comments represent is the latest volley in a long-running, multi-front battle between the union and league. Labor relations remain fraught. Evan Drellich of The Athletic recently noted on Twitter that anticipated early bargaining discussions have yet to materialize.
As for the twin Dodgers deals, it seems that frustrations are building from various quarters. Angels owner Arte Moreno is said to be furious that the hold-up of the first deal has left his organization in flux, per Heyman (via Twitter).
You can blame the moronic red sox for the trade and then trying to get more because they were blasted by the general consensus. Need to just let trade go through you already agreed to.
I think the fans are tired of waiting for this to be resolved. The Red Sox should at least announce the reason for the delay. A Tommy John surgery is not going to happen under the radar. What is the hold up?
They can’t “announce” anything… if the delay is due to medical concerns, it is a violation of the players privacy for the Red Sox to disclose it publicly. And what you see a player do has nothing to do with the written medical reports, which the team dosen’t get until a deal has been agreed to in principle.
Really now,..You have to know that.
TedYazJimEd, you’re the voice of reason here. They should know that, as you said, but most fans on here just want to whine about the Red Sox because they stole signs. And everyone needs to stop with the comments that the Sox “didn’t know they were getting a reliever.” What a bunch of bull. Chaim Bloom knows what he’s doing, and I’m sure he has known throughout negotiations what he’d be getting in Graterol. But there’s a reason that physicals are done and medical reports exchanged, so that all parties will have every bit of info they need before making the deal official.
” The Red Sox should at least announce the reason for the delay. ”
This is the second time that the Dodgers – Mark Walter – has bailed out the Red Sox – John Henry – from a taxed payroll.
What does Mark Walter owe John Henry and when will the debt be paid off?
Amen! Every casual Twins’ fan knew Graterol had arm issues and that their FO and pitching coach had him as a relief pitcher. The clueless Red Sox claiming this was news and demanding twice what they agreed upon is shameless. This team was involved in sign stealing and now this. It will be a long time before I trust them. I hope MLB finds them back to AAA.
They’ll be asking for even more when they “discover” that Alex Verdugo doesn’t profile as a top of the rotation starting pitcher either. I’m sure they’ll demand the Dodgers throw in May in addition to leaving in Verdugo to go along with the Twins giving up Graterol and either Balazovic or Duran. Clearly everyone is trying to pull one over on the Red Sox!
If twins trade Balazovic to Boston I will happily neglect to buy Twins merchandise and tickets for the next decade.
I still can’t understand how I knew 6 months ago as a fan that Graterol is reliever material due to the common knowledge of his injuries, yet the RS and most of the initial posts on MLTR are clueless until yesterday. Glad everyone is on the same page finally and I put no blame on the Twins hiding anything, especially after reading the Boras comment.
Just look at the Pomerantz trade as to why this may be happening. Perhaps the MLBPA and the league can work on a better system where medicals can reviewed before trade details leak out. Such is possible if it’s agreed upon in the CBA.
Pomeranz didn’t miss a start for two years,, That was a great trade for the Red Sox. It was a terrible trade for the other team.
priceless!
If the Twins medical staff knew his ceiling was as a relief pitcher based on his ongoing arm issues… they must have been ecstatic to find out they were getting a quality middle of the rotation arm for that.
Maybe the Sox didn’t do their DD on him. Who cares? Bottom line now they know, and the rules in place say they can either take Graterol out of the deal because of the concern, or work something else out for another addition with him. Not sure what the hold is here either… seems like a simple renegotiation.
The Red Sox didn’t get his medicals until after the trade was initiated. Little thing called HIPAA
Finds them back to AAA? What???
The PawSox are getting called up to the bigs! Or maybe the SeaDogs will jump from AA!!! They’ve been waiting for the call…
Exactly. Plus, with the investigation looming over Fenway like a dark cloud, sox management have seen better days.
The problem with just announcing it is privacy issues if, for example, the Red Sox said looking at the medicals we believe Graterol is walking time bomb for TOS then you violated that. There are privacy issues involved period end of story you will never know the true reason. Maybe it’s as simple as Bloom not understanding he was getting a reliever or maybe it was much more then that. We won’t know.
You can blame all the Mlb insiders and trade rumors and everything else. Don’t jump the gun and announce a trade before it’s even finalized. Trades are not finalized until a medical review of the players involved. Therefore we should have never been told about this until it was finalized. Yes the clubs agreed to the deal pending medical review.
Thank you. Could have said it better
*Couldn’t
No he did mean could, sorry.lol
blame the teams for releasing that type of info to the media before an actual signing goes through.
He could have meant couldn’t, couldn’t he? Or could he?
The fans chatter about trade rumors created the whole sub-industry in the first place. I’m pretty sure Dierkes himself has said he can’t believe how heavily-referenced a site with “rumors” in its title is.
The market called for it, now the market hates what it created. Great.
The clubs involved never formally announced the trades. The Dodgers obviously have a leak in their front office and probably the Red Sox too. The Sox have a problem with their scouting staff. They don’t seem to have done their due diligence in regards to Graterol. Spring Training starts next week and the other three teams are left in limbo.
Trout27-knowing something was wrong last year can be very different than getting and reviewing records that point to a potential long term condition as compared to a temporary ailment.
Sox have been burned by GMs on the hot seat before(see: Pomerania, Drew). I don’t remember Clark or Bore-ass whining back then. Sox performing ordinary due diligence, as they should.
** Pomeranz
I like Pomerania. He’s the Hulk Hogan of pitchers.
Pomerania was better.
Damn auto correct. Every time I type in his name it gets changed to Pomerania.
Pomerania.—Song and Album by Deaf Leopards, on the K-Tel collection, “Auto-Correct Hits of the 80’s”
Lots of things Boston fans can complain about, but Pomeranz is not one of them. He didn’t miss a start for 2 seasons.
He was decent in 2016 and his ERA in 2017, the 2nd year of the deal was 3.32 in 32 starts..
You all need to stop whining. The Padres got a kid that will never pitch for them at all. They have reason to be throwing a fit.
Koamalu, it’s not whining or complaining about 5he results of the trade. You and I both know the Padres failed to disclose Poms’ medical until it was too late for a Boston to go elsewhere as the deadline had passed.
As long as you have somebody to blame I guess you never have to take responsibility looiebelongsinthehall. What, do you think Boston would have won the World Series in ’16 if Preller hadn’t intentionally and maliciously lied to you? Preller was absolutely the only reason the Sox failed? You and I both know that the Red Sox got their World Series title in ’18 due to cheating. So get over it.
They didn’t say he was taking an over the counter anti-inflammatory. He took an ibuprofen. At least read the reports before you start whining.
He never missed a start. Hurt players miss starts. Hurt players don’t make 32 starts with a 3.32 ERA.
Pull your head out.
Jaguar and Koamalu: I wasn’t complaining just explaining what happened. Poms was ok when he was healthy but missed a lot. Not sure where you got your medical degree because Motrin in the first line of anti-inflammatories and is available in both over the counter and prescription strength. Concern as I recall wasn’t the medication being taken but the reason for it. Also let’s wait and see what the MLB investigation reveals before passing judgment. I’m already on record here stating the punishment should be severe if they’re shown to have done big time cheating like Houston.
*Javia.
You know squat.
*Insert typical “Pads Fans” jargon here* -“Koamalu”
Preller didn’t tell the Sox that Pomeranz took ibuprofen for a sore arm. OMG! Off with his head! Wait a minute- has David Price ever taken an aspirin for arm soreness? I am willing to bet that he has. How about Betts? Has he ever taken an aspirin for a sore anything? I am sure it is all in his medical file, along with an orthopedic specialist’s report and x-rays, right?
Geez anouther Bozo that thinks everyone is guilty before the facts come out….get a life Javia
When there are medical concerns and off the field issues, I think that’s reason for a trade to hold up….especially when you are talking about the #2 player in baseball
Number 2 player in baseball lol. Really? Betts has one MVP year which looks like Cora and the Red Sox cheated for him to achieve. Even so you ignore Yelich, Bellinger, Semien, DeGrom to name a few and I’m not including any Astros which of Betts did cheat add Cole, Verlander, Bregman ahead of Betts. Betts is a good player but he isn’t number 2 in baseball, not even top 10.
lmao dude stop. Betts is absolutely only behind Trout. He has had TWO 9.7+ fWAR seasons. From 2014 to present Trout is the only player better than Betts. What a clueless take. Semien has only been a superstar for one season. What nonsense.
Hahaha. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until you put him outside of top 10.
LOL—- Semien—- OMG… ****ing clueles
LOL—- Semien—- OMG… ****ing clueles
@ strike 4 WAR is your lone measuring stick? So ignore the cheating scandals and exclude Semien since current performance doesn’t count to you, are you seriously saying Betts is clearly number 2 over even all these guys?
Yelich
Bellinger
Scherzer
Acuna
Soto
Cole
Bregman
Lindor
Arenado
Rendon
Chapman
Strasburg
Kershaw
@triumph I agree you’re right putting him outside the top 10 may have been wrong, I should have said outside top 5 to be less controversial. I still don’t think he’s the clear number 2.
Clueless because I responded to a post implying best players in baseball, originally obviously referring to the 2019 season and thus Semien was a top player in the game above Betts? Learn how to read and follow a conversation
People don’t remember as good as Betts was in 18, many including myself believed then and now that JDM was the team’s MVP.
Well I raised my son wrong and he went to Fenway on vacation and became a Red Sox fan falling in love with the city, stadium, and team. I failed as a SoCal father lol. But he agrees with you, he was routing for JDM in 2018 for MVP.
Semein? You just list all credibility.
No one is always right including me (other than our president but that’s not for this forum). I just felt JDM was the difference between a
17 and 18 and he made everyone at the plate more dangerous. In hindsight, perhaps the difference was the Houston trash cans in 17…
@Boogaloo As I said, in the 2019 season Semien was 3rd in MVP voting, is that hard to comprehend he was one of the best last season?
All I see are a splendid example of moronic sports fans speculating mindlessly about business that isn’t theirs. Unless any of you are team lawyers or management, you should STFU and wait for resolution — nothing your think, say, or do will alter the outcome.. Your witless drivel, blame, insinuations, innuendo, unsubstantiated “facts,” scapegoating, and unqualified opinions make this website a spectacular exhibition of clueless entitlement.
The outcry from the “moronic sports fans” definitely had an impact on Boston’s buyer’s remorse. Without the fans the sport is dead. They don’t need to “STFU”.
Source?
It’s an opinion you derelict.
And yet 88wines, here you are posting on the same “website …of spectacular exhibition of clueless entitlement.” You criticize yourself by posting here. Maybe you should ST*U. Of course none of us really know what’s going on with the RS, Twins, Dodgers blockbuster trade, but, we’re all fans who enjoy speculating and exchanging ideas. What’s wrong with that? Take your hangover from drinking your 88 bottles of wine elsewhere.
Cancel the deal send everybody back to “Start” with no one allowed to pass GO.Then roll the dice again.
Does Betts first pass go and collect $200.00? He seems to want every penny he feels he’s entitled to.
He won’t go to LA without it.
They did not agree to the trade. They agreed to a deal pending medical review so they have done nothing wrong
It’s all AJ’s fault.
Yeah. He didn’t disclose that Pomeranz was taking an over the counter anti-inflammatory. Then Pomeranz didn’t miss a start in 2016 and 2017. He was definitely hurt. All Red Sox fans should be whining and crying.
Preller was suspended for his actions.
Stop trying to make it seem likely nothing happened.
mlb.com/news/padres-gm-a-j-preller-suspended-for-3…
Hope they blow it up.
I’m a Red Sox fan of 55 years and I can honestly say I agree. Lets finalize this and move on. I mean, it’s not like we can’t use a bonafide closer.
This is all on the Red Sox for not bothering to look into the player they were accepting.
They didn’t accept the player, that’s the point….his Medicals came up with some concerns that’s the hold up, let’s not make this something it’s not
Yes you’re right
But you’re also missing the point of Clark’s complaint. Some team (prolly Boston) leaked the medical stuff, to leverage themselves to get more.
That’s the unethical part… Not turning down an injured player. It’s the leaking of it…. cmon
How do you suppose they make their position known without stating they have a concern? I’ve yet to read specifics which would really be the violation.
The original comment from the Red Sox on holding up the deal was theythought they were getting a SP and they wanted another top 10 prospect in addition to Graterol. Although the Red Sox did not know the details of Graterol’s medical, they knew theTwins publicly called him a relief pitcher.. this is about saving face after not being able to make a decent deal.
Wait.
The hold up is because Minnesota “labelled him a RP” and the RS thought they were getting a SP
Wtf
Hes a pitcher. It’s up to the RS to decide if he fits best as a SP or RP.
It’s not like he can never start just because Minnesota didnt think he would
The article clearly states he saw surgeons who stated there would be no trouble going forward with any previous issues he was facing
This is like Aaron Sanchez when with the Jays, the FO wanted him as a starter but realized hed excel and pitch with less injury if he was a 7th or 8th inning guy.
Houston traded for him knowing he had blister and arm troubles, yet still used him as a SP
Its up to the team who controls the player to determine where best to slot him in on the roster
And if it’s TRUE this is the RS holding up 2 trades for BS reasons. They should face some sort of repercussions from the league
Not a good look Boston, not a good look at all
Mariano came up a starter. I guess his being moved to the pen cost him big time.
are you an idiot, all these dealare pending a medical, if the team then finds something they don’t like they are entitled to not go through with it, especially if you are talking about trading your best player of course you wouldn’t want to to have the return have any issue, I don’t know why this is so hard to comprehend
I agree with you. Thats a big haul for a player that may have a pre existing condition and anyone in the medical profession knows thats not info the public is supposed to know.
Just an FYI. I defend construction accident injuries. Without an authorization, I have an investigator run a medical sweep on the injured person. It often comes up with providers and dates. What it doesn’t tell me is what the person treated for. I can also find out when testing was done and where without learning what body parts underwent MRIs or what the results were.
I don’t like the Sox as much as the next guy, but medicals are releases post agreement. It’s where the term “pending medicals” comes from. Tony Clark has been a terrible leader.
This
Don’t really WANT to defend Clark but he didn’t take any issue with the medical side. His issue is how long the process is taking. He also brought up how players are treated and the arbitration process but the medicals themselves aren’t his problem.
I have a problem with him having a problem with players being treated as commodities. That’s what they are.
The real problem is the MLB is confusing current revenue with future popularity. Their understanding and commitment to promoting the game through basic social and digital channels is appalling.
No, they’re still people and not commodities. That line of thinking leads to dehumanization, unethical and unlawful treatment of other people (which by the way we are all human and on the same team), and if taken to the most extreme levels can lead to violence, unjust incarceration and ultimately open revolt, all of which this world needs to significantly cut back on and not increase. Stocks, 401k plans, real estate, and cold hard cash are commodities.
Well paid at that
his another issue is the medical became public. that’s on the sox.
Great take. It’s such terrible business sense by MLB with the lack of effort they put into marketing players these days. Trout is the greatest player we’ve ever seen and no one knows what his voice sounds like. No kids put posters of baseball players on their walls anymore because MLB doesn’t encourage anyone to make posters of players. The players should be markets unto themselves and they aren’t.
It’s Bud seligs fault. He created a culture of monetize everything at all cost and then the world moved to content marketing and baseball never changed.
Yawn.
There would be no issue about the process taking so long if the Media would just report trades when they are official.
Clark was also quoted as complaining about the unethical release of medical information…
Finally a dose of sanity
They can’t look at his medical records until the deal is agreed upon.
You can’t jump to that conclusion.This may honestly be where they found out more and won’t go through with the trade as is. Sox fans are overreacting to this trade. Betts is testing free agency no matter what. They’re gonna be able to dump a bunch of Price’s salary and get 5 controllable years of Verdugo, who is gonna be a badass. and another player as well.
That’s why they have a medical evaluation you dummy.
I think the Sox knew exactly what/who they were getting, they just weren’t prepared for the massive negative blow back…
Maybe they did. Maybe they didnt.
All we know is part of the trade said medical review, and, then the team entitled to the review said no go.
Twins can just quit the deal, end of problem.
Well duh they are looking into the player. That is the entire point
Boston is said to want a pair of wireless buzzers in the deal. Not sure what for though
Is Houston replacing the Twins in the deal?
I thought they wanted a pair of video cameras to mount on the Green Monster
Well I guess we he can thank the media for all this.
yeah really. if not for modern media reporting we would have no knowledge of the trade yet.
I guess the media has spies in MLB front offices just waiting on news like this…
Worth stating again, the Twins are absolutely right to balk at the Red Sox trying to demand a second top 10 prospect out of their organization. All the Twins are getting out of the deal is Maeda. They don’t owe anyone 2 top 10 prospects. That’s beyond absurd.
Then they won’t get Maeda and are stuck with an injured pitcher.
So be it. Graterol will still be a serviceable relief pitcher. One that immediately ranked atop Boston’s farm system.
And that’s fine. Twins will get more value out of Brusdar and that other prospect than they would out of Maeda. Maeda isn’t a top tier starter
That sounds like the issue. Now that they’ve seen the medical they probably don’t feel like they’re getting 2 top 10 prospects.
Exactly. It’s a three team trade, why single out the Twins as the team that has to pony up more?
Phantomofdb…. as a Red Sox fan …. I completely Agree with you…. Its my understanding that the Dodgers first have to trade Maeda to the Twins to get Graterol to then flip to the Red Sox… with that being said…. the Dodgers should provide another prospect…. The Red Sox have every right to say no to this deal because it was pending Medicals and all you fools that don’t understand that are just nitwits.
I’m not sure how the mechanics work?
Is it dodgers trade maeda to MIN, then flip him to BOS?
Or is it dodgers trade maeda to BOS, then flip him to MIN?
If it’s the latter, just dump MIN from the trade and keep maeda. I doubt LA would restructure to give joc to bos to make up for the lesser control/higher cost of maeda, but, maybe you get a piece from the la trade as a ptbnl just to end things. (Although from LA standpoint, they only expect to include maeda so why add more?)
Cooper, it better be a huge problem because what if it falls apart? The Sox still have the most to lose. It shouldn’t but I’m surprised it hasn’t already been settled.
Word is Boston was looking for two wearables to be named later.
If they actually asked the Twins to put in another top 10 prospect and leave in Graterol they might be looking for some edibles. I have no idea what they were on when they made that ask, but it must have been something pretty potent
Yep David Price and Mookie Betts are starving on the streets….c’mon hurry the heck up
Clark is right. This trade should have never been leaked prior to it becoming official.
It’s common for two team trades to be held up, but this is a four team deal and the Dodgers and Angels have nothing to do with the hold up.
I don’t blame Boston, I don’t blame the Twins. But the hold up affects players and teams and it needs to be resolved.
You can blame Boston
Of course the Dodgers are part of the issue. Boston wanted a big time cheap pitcher and LA refused to include their stud so they worked out a multi team trade. For right or wrong, Boston’s view of the Minnesota pitcher changed after seeing his medical.
How is Tony Clark still working for the MLBPA.
lots of compromising photos is my guess.
He also says that their lives are in limbo. Maybe the future of their careers are uncertain as to which uniform they might wear but nobody’s life is in limbo lol.
this is why Clark is such a bad president. focusing on issues like this instead of minor league pay is absurd.
Mlbpa doesnt represent the minor leaguers, just major leaguers. Minor leaguers are competition who take jobs from union members so while morally they deserve to earn more Clark has no incentive to fight for them.
“Why is the players’ union not fighting for a group that’s not part of their union”
I love ML Traderumors, but should these deals be announced before they are final? What other business operators that way?
1. do you understand what media is about?
2. if they waited till it was final they wouldn’t be rumors anymore would they?
Don’t shoot the messenger?
Blame the FO’s leaking stuff…
I absolutely agree it’s the front office’s faults. What other business do you not keep things to yourself before you do it
This is professional sports. There are major and minor media outlets assigned to cover every team and their job is to report on reports of rumors and possibilities.
That’s how media works. Send me your email address and I’ll Paypal you a quarter so you can buy yourself a clue.
This isn’t 1982. A clue costs at least 7.50 these days. #inflation #costs rise, wages don’t
I absolutely agree it’s the front office’s faults. What other business do you not keep things to yourself before you do it
I absolutely agree it’s the front office’s faults. What other business do you not keep things to yourself before you do it
If you’re not first, you’re last.
If you’re not first, you’re last.
So your duplicate post is not second but last?
Yeah, I really think it’s appalling that MLB Trade Rumors should reports rumors of MLB trades.
It’s not MLBTR’s fault you can’t have an immediate answer.
I love ML Traderumors, but should these deals be announced before they are final? What other business operators that way?
Since the word RUMORS is in the name of the site, then yes, MLB Trade RUMORS should be reporting on RUMORED deals.
Maybe the Red Sox realized they’re probably going to have Sale and Eovaldi on the IL most of the year and they only have two beds in the training room.
It’s all about the over paid players that make millions of dollars screw em all. If not for the fans then you got nothing players I can watch this on tv if I want. If I want
LOL
Most player salaries come from tv deals and not ticket sales fyi
Tony Clark is a union guy
Duh! Of course Tony Clark is a union guy – he is the president of the MLBPA.
So the Red Sox should not be diligent in examining the health of someone they traded for! Is it customary to do a physical before the trade? Not what I’ve observed in the past.
Only it seems there is no CURRENT medical problems.
They are griping about a previous concern that in the article clearly states Graterol saw a surgeon and has been told “there are no issues going forward”
Sooooooooooooooo.
What’s the hold up?
So, you never heard about the structure of someone’s body or joint, the size of a tendon, being more or less likely to suffer injury or reinjury?
There’s a difference between that and being “healed” or “cleared to return”…
The fact is, nobody outside a couple front office knows what is even going on.
I see some fans of other teams who are upset, mist be because they thought they were “winning” something, then talk out both sides of their mouths.
“How dare they hold up the trade”… followed by “well we’d love to keep so and so, he will be way better than what was coming back.
Well, if you didn’t thinK you were getting something you’d pull out. Twins haven’t either.
Yeah, because every single medical professional will have the same opinion on everything. Per Boras, one surgeon said it was ok, so case closed…
Just because you don’t think there are medical concerns with all the info you… lol, doesn’t mean the Red Sox do not have concerns… that is their prerogative.
Such idiotic assumptions from a bunch of ***ing know it all’s, that actually dont know squat.
Ive never seen a trade take this long but I get it. Twins aren’t trying to get shafted and Boston does not want damaged goods. I can see twins backing out. As long as Dodgers get Mookie. Angels should be fine but its almost too good to be true for Angels fans
You want a speedy and ethical solution? quit. These players voluntarily sign off their medical reports to the mlb. Too bad Tony didn’t inform them on the possible consequences of being a major leaguer.
I think we should get rid of all the players, the ungrateful wretches. We could have the owners and front offices go out and play; I’m sure that the MLB Network would cover them and that TV ratings would be just fine. And fans would pay $200 a night to bring their family out.
No Eddie, they would just hire the next best..and you would be right there cheering them on with your peanuts and crackerjacks.
Not sure how to feel here. Medical holdups in trades are not a new occurrence, but they don’t tend to happen in such complex, multifaceted deals like this. The problem, from my point of view, is the tradition of these trades becoming public before all of the groundwork is completed. It’s undeniably reasonable that Boston would want to know the health of a potential acquisition before pulling the trigger, so why does it happen so late in the process? Tough to read the tea leaves when everything is drip fed from potentially dubious media sources. No way to know what’s really going on.
I think Clark’s frustration is more based on timing. if this was December or early January it’s not as bad but players are expected to report next week and aren’t even 100% sure where to report.
Agreed. If you’re the president of a union, you can’t have your members reporting to camp in Florida and start preparing for work only to find out they have to fly across the country and find a home while preparing to work in new surroundings and learning new coworkers.
Unions exist to protect the interests of their employees and I have a feeling the next CBA is going to result in Clark asking for the union to have the power to kill trades if they aren’t completed within a specified period of time, or that teams have 48 to officially complete a trade once it’s been agreed to.
Allriseforthejudge:
How is this any different than a trade deadline trade? Or bring a guy everyone knows at the deadline will be traded, just waiting for best and highest?
When you sign up for a job that said your employers can assign or trade your contract AT ANY TIME (ie don’t have a no trade clause) it comes with the territory.
Heck, our military servicemen and servicewomen live with this their entire enlistment. Unlike a baseball player, they can’t just quit to stop being shuffled around.
I’ve seen it suggested elsewhere but what if (BIG if) the Halos step into MIN shoes and take Maeda as well. Maybe send Suarez to BOS
Red Sox have a history Flunking the medical Report of JC Ramirez flunking the medical of JC Ramirez And the catcher Napoli
They were PAINFULLY stuck with a hurt Pom Pom in 2017. S that maybe some of the surging paranoia!
Boston had every opportunity to rescind the trade. They didn’t. They weren’t stuck. They made a conscious choice.
They were stuck because the trading deadline had passed. They could not turn elsewhere if they rescinded the trade and knew the kid they gave up could not provide immediate help.
Pomeranz had his best season as a red sox.
Graterol isn’t even hurt. Boston just doesn’t all of a sudden like the chances of him projecting as a starter. Still think the trade is fair all around. Red Sox getting back two good pieces for the future while shedding a ton of money They can’t really expect to “win” the deal much more than that.
Graterol isn’t even hurt? He has an extensive injury history including Tommy John surgery.
But those are past injuries…..
Do you know what currently means? Holy hell
Matt Harvey 2.0? He was healthy after TJ surgery then the very next year had to go out again.
Can an argument be made though in this case. health records are not public knowledge then when trade was agreed upon they got the medical records. After review and their own medical test they found something they didnt like it is their option to go through with it, drop it, or renegotiate.
If the dodgers found that Mookie’s hip was not 100% or maybe he had a touch of arthritis in his wrist that was not in the original med reports would anyone be arguing about dodgers wanting to adjust the deal?
Good response Roll.
Quick refresher on verb tenses:
“is” = present tense
“was” = past tense
He WAS hurt =/= he IS hurt.
And you don’t think them suddenly no longer having any faith in his ability to develop as a starter might have something to do with whatever they saw in the medical records, which they would not have been able to review until agreeing in principal to the trade? It’s not rocket science……..
An MRI changing Blooms evaluation to a RP is beyond ridiculous. He is clearly being rattled by the Red Sox fan outcry. Wise up and do the deal you agreed to. The return is really not bad for 1 year of Betts contrary to what whiny New Englanders think.
you think a Relief pitcher and an OF with injury concerns of his own is fair for Betts and Price? please don’t be in business.
You think David Price has any value??? LMAO stop. The Red Sox can negotiate with Betts next winter if they want. Its a smart move to get assets for him.
I totally agree . It’s a little light for Boston but overall I think a pretty fair trade for all the teams. In one year Betts could be back in Boston ..
Do you think another team like the Cardinals would take Price at $16m per? Next year if he stays healthy, the Sox might theoretically be interested in him again when the difference is $32 over two. Now that we know the approximate amount Boston is willing to eat, why not start over and separate the players for two trades?
I actually think Boston makes out best in this deal. They get 2 former top prospects that are just entering MLB and have 11 years of control over in addition to shedding over 70 million in payroll. Dodgers get the best player, by far, for only one year and Price is roughly equal to Maeda at this point in each of their respective careers for double the cost. Twins simply traded future potential for current production.
Getting snow in Pittsburgh, amk3510? You’re a genius. Put your teeth in and hit the nearest roadhouse
Go back to punching a picture of Kyrie Irving. I dont live in Pittsburgh lmao.
How is that beyond ridiculous?
Tony the Tiger needs to STFU. The front office has to put the teams needs ahead of the individual player needs. Besides, players get traded mid season all the time with no warning.
clark is trash and needs to STFU
Sorry this is happening to you.
stfu
“Players are treated as commodities “? That’s freaking stupid Tony. I was with you until you said that.
Dodgers are idiots to part with Maeda, Joc, Strickland and Verdugo, the three are as valuable this year to the Dodgers as Mook/Price would be in my opinion. We can say that the Dodgers and their fans are blinded from reality because they are drooling hard at the thought of having Betts for one season. After 2020 is all done and the Dodgers don’t win it all, then, you will see reality sink in. Maeda, Strickland, Verdugo, Peterson and Betts all playing for another club in 2021 and!! all that remains is an ineffective expensive old pitcher in Price.
Stripling, not Strickland
Change your name to don’t know more baseball. First of all PEDERSON is a free agent at seasons end too not just Betts. STRIPLING is a 6 starter with the Dodgers and has no place with them long term. Losing Verdugo might sting beyond 2020 but they have more than enough solid OF options. And they get a draft pick that has good value if Mookie leaves. Maeda is replaceable as well. A whole lot of nonsense you just typed
He’s Einstein compared to you.
Absolutely shocked im living in a Celtic fans head rent free. Go back to knocking on peoples doors to tell them Kemba is better than Kyrie.
amk3510 – I really like Stripling but he was always shoved to the back burner by the Dodgers. Glad he is off to the Angels. The Dodgers are loaded but Stripling is a solid mid-rotation addition for the Angels. Hope Patrick Sandoval is given a full chance to start for them as well.
Can’t blame them tho .. Betts and Belinger in the same line up is pretty heavy haha
I usually can’t stand Tony Clark and his constant whining and meddling. Normally, he’s an antagonist in my own little baseball world. But this, I agree with. The data revolution is making some really productive and competitive baseball teams, but at what cost? The players who bring so many people so much joy — and money — are treated like nothing more than data points. These are real people. They have lives, they have emotions and desires just like the people who make these deals. All too often I see that front offices don’t take this into consideration, and for once I’m glad that Tony Clark brought this up.
they are real people making loads of money regardless of what team they are on. please – the union should have bigger fish to fry.
Don’t play baseball for a living, I guess.
Players can’t have it both ways. Allowing teams to bid against and trade with each other for their services is what makes them commodities. It is also what allows them to earn $300-$400 million contracts. When people bid on you you are a commodity. If not you make league minimum.
Then tell the players to quit this job and find another that will care about there lives,emotions, desires.
Clark is right. This trade should have never been leaked prior to it becoming official.
It’s common for two team trades to be held up, but this is a four team deal and the Dodgers and Angels have nothing to do with the hold up.
I don’t blame Boston, I don’t blame the Twins. But the hold up affects players and teams and it needs to be resolved.
Sox found Out Graterol arm is bad so now they are trying to get LA to take Evoldi too
Sox don’t want another Tyler Thornburg debacle. Plain and simple.
Or Carson Smith. F all this noise blasting the Sox for rightfully holding this up. We’ve been dealt enough useless broken pitchers in recent years. It’s one thing to whiff on the return of a Travis Shaw but Mookie is a generational talent on a hall of fame trajectory, if they feel they have to trade him they HAVE to get this right. I’m not happy with trading him, but if they’re going to I’m glad to see they’re trying to not screw it up.
I might be spitballing here, but what’s the limit to seeing a medical record and then rethinking your position
If he has a hangnail can you reneg?
If he bruised his shin by walking into a table right before can you reneg?
If there’s a absolutely 0 problems currently but you suspect maybe there might be in 2 years, can you reneg?
It appears as tho he has a clean bill of health with doctors telling him hes good to go
So what are the Sox claiming here?? Really??
Sure thornburg was bad, so was pomeranz
But now are the RS going to do this with every P they trade for
I’d really like to know the standard MLB has to allow teams to veto on health concerns, but not knowing I can only speculate that only a CURRENT injury that would sideline someone or not be able to be medically cleared to play would constitute fair grounds to veto
Which based on the article clearly isnt the case, all his injuries are in the past and doctors say hes clear to Pitch now
If that’s the case, Boston deserves some repercussions as its BS to try getting more value after you agreed to a trade days ago
A hangnail? Are you serious? Of course that would be ridiculous. But we’re talking about a pitcher the Red Sox clearly thought they could groom into a starter, then they see a redder flag than the Soviet Union’s in the medicals and with the new, fuller understanding of his arm no longer believe he will ever have the durability to be a starter. That clearly changes the value of the return in a huge way. So yeah they need to receive something more for the deal to meet the value threshold of what they see as an acceptable deal. I don’t see what is so challenging about this for people to understand.
I disagree, that leaves too much room for interpretation for the teams who in cases like this exact one, can agree to one thing, leak it and then change their mind not based on factual medical advise but what appears to be blowback from a fan base.
It should be cut and dry, after you agree to a trade a non biased medical professional should be appointed to do physicals on all involved and revue previous medical records to determine if player A is being traded in good faith
I have a hard time believing the RS didnt know
A. At least a brief history of his medicals prior to agreement
B. That many Minnesota baseball writers have stated Graterol is likely (not garunteed) to be a RP for the foreseeable future
C. Further moves would be made by the Dodgers to alleviate the OF congestion and lower salary post trade
AND
I find it hard to believe in this season of “Let’s not step outside the rule book while everyone is under a microscope post Astros punishment and Boston certainly being #1 team under a microscope” that Minnesota would say to Boston “yea, no hes great! We were gonna have him as our #3 this year and hes gonna be our #1 in 2-3 years” followed by “what TJS? We dont know anything about that”
If any of A,B or C are true then Bloom and any advanced scouts who JOB is to track and grade OTHER TEAMS PLAYERS are a fraud and should be terminated immediately.
turnerg—- let me explain this to you as simple as possible….. The Red Sox have not agreed to the trade yet…. they are not “vetoing” a trade that has been consummated…. because it hasn’t been finalized….. they have every right to say no based on the medicals–plain and simple.
Let me rebuttal
YES they did accept a trade, which is the only reason they would have his medicals to be “rethinking” this trade
NO they dont have every right to veto a trade they agreed to to view the medicals
Neither of knows any of the rules that govern such activity in MLB. But I’d be willing to bet theres some sort of structure and verbiage to cover the who what when where and whys of trades being completed or vetoed
None of what you said in that reply was correct at all and just bias redsox fan denial.
I’m a Jays fan, I have incentive to see Betts leave, but I’m not siding with Minnesota for that reason, its because its BS what the RS are doing.
And why is Minnesota even being targeted for extra compensation, technically Minnesota traded Graterol to LAD for Meada which is fair value especially if hes a RP for life which ppl are claiming
Even if he ends up an 8th inning guy that’s plus value for a few years of cheap Meada who will be a #2-4 depending on the quality of staff hes on
Why aren’t they asking the Dodgers for more?
Oh that’s right they are probably getting plus value for the 4 years of Verdugo for the 1 left of Betts
Wtf. Greedy mother f****ers
The league would jump in if there was not real concern. The amount invested is so unreal and Dirtywater is right. DD’s time was highlighted by the Sox being involved too many times in trades involving pitchers that soon suffer major injuries.
I hate Boston but only the PRINCIPAL of the trade has been agreed to. No players have changed teams, therefore no trade has been made. And yes, Boston DOES have an absolute right to back out of a proposed trade after reviewing the medicals because EVERY TRADE IS MADE PENDING MEDICAL REVIEW AND A SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED PHYSICAL EXAM BY THE ACQUIRING TEAM’S PHYSICIAN.
Boston doesn’t like what they see in Graterol’s medicals as determined by THEIR team doctor and probably several other physicians. The CBA says they can back out or demand supplemental compensation to increase the overall value of their return. Period. Stop making stupid arugments.
You know you’re making a dumb comment when a Yankees fan is siding with the Red Sox.
Clark is an important piece–a former player who knows what he’s talking about. If I remember correctly he was a pretty good player with several teams. A checklist should be developed so things like this don’t happen again.
MLBTR.com also needs to have a policy of protecting players and teams when trades have been made, when physical exams and medical info has not been exchanged and the deal not truly finalized.
This deal will be over, the Sox will have a new manager in time for Spring Training. The grass will be green and the the speculation about another season of Baseball will be upon us.
Only the media says there was a deal . None of the teams involved have said anything. Until the LAD,Sox,Twins & Angels all publicly say it is a deal, there is no deal.
As a dodger fan, I just want to tell Boston fans that Verdugo is a great player. And although he isn’t Betts, I would say that one year of Betts is easily worth 4 years of Verdugo. Congrats on getting him. He will likely be a 10/300 player in 4 or 5 years.
p donk— as a Red Sox fan I hope you are right about Verdugo… from a positive side I really think Price will win (if he stays healthy) 15- to 18 games this year for your team. As far Mookie… he will be excellent for your team as well, but I am guessing he will have a solid 7 to 7.5 War season…. but he will not sign an extension, he is going to the highest bidder Next December.
False. Verdugo is a slap hitter with an injury history.
He is not fast (4 SBs in his career?).
He is like a poor man’s Jackie Bradley, but with less strikeouts. more injuries and a worse base runner.
I would rather have Betts for 1 year than Verdugo for 5
Really. Right now Kenta Maeda doesn’t know if he should report to Glendale, Arizona or Fort Meyers, Florida. And he’s supposed to report in 3 days.
Betts has a little more time, but it can’t be fun. Lives move, families. Houses need to be rented stuff needs to be shipped.
At least Stripling and Pederson are good with their current arrangements as Tempe and Glendale are close together. Getting through downtown a rush hour can suck, but not compared to LA.
I understand what your saying. I do. And must suck for them. BUT… this is the occupation they chose and this type of thing goes with the big checks they’re cashing.
I remember getting a 2 month notice that my unit will be “relocating” to Southeastern Afghanistan for 13 months.
No matter how bad it might be to not know where to report, it’s still a whole lot better than a 9-5 gig. He’ll be fine. It’s not that serious.
Halo – he knows EXACTLY where to report for ST, right where he did last year. Until a trade is final, and your gm calls you up, you’re part of your current team. Period.
This is no different than the month leading up to the trade deadline. Everyone knows it’ll settle eventually. Odds are before games start being played and injuries could happen this spring.
But unless you argue there’s no more in season trades, and move the trade window from after the final out of the WS until the end of the winter meetings, spare us all the attempted drama.
Blame the Rosenthals and the Heyman’s of the world for this as once again they want to be the first to report everything, before there is a consummated deal… and the Red Sox have every right to examine the medicals closer and do their due diligence before finalizing this deal.
BS on blaming Rosenthal & Heyman since it’s they’re job to tell Baseball fans & it’s not their fault that there is an issue with the Minnesota prospect who has had TJ Surgery in the last couple of seasons & had a shoulder injury in 2019
Cooper, I blame it on their team sources who leak this information.
I absolutely agree it’s the front office’s faults. What other business do you not keep things to yourself before you do it
I absolutely agree it’s the front office’s faults. What other business do you not keep things to yourself before you do it
Boston is in shambles right now.
That’s it, veto the trade and have Betts go to San Diego for Myers (1/2 his contract) and Arias!! 🙂
No he goes back and signs a team friendly extension and Price, Eovaldi and a Pedie all suddenly retire, freeing up the Sox payroll…I just watched Judy Garland and clicked my heels when she did…
Ideally, team doctors would perform their evaluations prior to the announcement of a trade. Unfortunately, all trades are agreed to “pending” physiicals.
The teams never announced the trade.
Gee Tony Clark hasn’t publicly itched & moaned about other trades that have been held up even after they’ve become public but I guess since one trade involves Mookie Betts Tony wants to itch & moan about this trade hitting a snag.
Shut up Tony & let teams work through the hangups with the Minnesota prospect
Waiting for Theo to swoop in and trade Bryant for Verdugo and a prospect
Not enough. Bryant has two years
Bryant is not even close to Betts level. Betts has 37 fWAR in 5 years, Bryant has 27.8
F*** Boras
You can Not blame the Red Sox.
They were confused.
John Henry got messages from Jim Crane.
Red Sox owner thought two bangs on the dugout garbage can means make the trade.
Turns out 2 Bangs means:
Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction, also known as Tommy John surgery (TJS), is a surgical graft procedure where the ulnar collateral ligament in the medial elbow is replaced with either a tendon from elsewhere in the patient’s body, or with one from a dead donor. The procedure is common among collegiate and professional athletes in several sports, particularly in baseball.
The procedure was invented in 1974 by orthopedic surgeon Frank Jobe, a Los Angeles Dodgers team physician who served as a special advisor to the team until his death in 2014. It is named after the first baseball player to undergo the surgery, major league pitcher Tommy John, whose record of 288 career victories ranks seventh among left-handed pitchers.
Duh !
Red Sox can’t say that they weren’t aware Graterol projects short term out of the pen when there was a article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune 2 weeks ago covering all this extensively. Noted his arm issues and how Twins saw him being used this year. He was quoted as being fine not being a starter at least for now. If Sox don’t know this, they’re pretty lousy at basic player evaluation. I think they are blowing smoke.
He’s a two-pitch flamethrower, he put up good numbers starting in the mid-minors but I don’t think anyone was seriously projecting him making 33 starts a year for his whole career
Trade was probably conjured up by MLB to take attention off the rampant cheating that two recent champions have been involved in.
Poor, poor millionaires are slightly inconvenienced. When is Clark gonna learn how to negotiate instead of whine in the press like a b*tch?
He’s a former baseball player and doesn’t have the slightest idea how to negotiate. It’s not his fault, he just shouldn’t be the MLBPA President.
It is his fault. he should never have taken the job and should resign asap
keep quiet on trade talks until deals are finalized. problem solved. fire any leakers or whistle blowers.
I’m sure the owners are quaking in their boots over what Tony Clark says.
Hard done by millionaires playing a game they love. Spoiled athletes.
What resolution comes first, this trade or official Iowa results?
Smart money says to never gamble on anything involving Iowa this time of year. I’ll take the trade and the over.
Sure, Tony….it’s a life or death situation. How f’in stupid.
This is all posturing by Tony Clark and the agents. Every trade is contingent upon review of the players’ medical records. That is standard procedure.
Posturing in labor relations? Hogwash!
Who cares how long it takes. If the internet didn’t exist we wouldn’t be getting instant updates. It’ll be complete when everyone is happy and it’s complete. Deals aren’t done until they’re done.
All the people complaining about how “Boston knew this” or “Boston was aware of that” are ridiculous. I hate the Red Sox with a passion, but they knew nothing until his medical records were furnished. You can’t expect a team that doesn’t have access to specific, detailed, private files to know what they were getting because the media reported something a week ago.
Medicals aren’t exchanged until the framework of a trade has been agreed to. Anyone with common sense knows there’s something serious in Graterol’s medicals that scared Boston off, but none of us will ever know what that is due to HIPPA. Maybe he never fully recovered from TJS? Maybe the shoulder injury affected his rehab? Maybe his shoulder is worse than Minnesota allowed anyone to know about publicly because they wanted to retain his trade value?
If Boston feels Graterol’s medicals show he needs surgery and/or won’t be able to perform for all or part of the season, or longer, why would they agree to take him without getting something of immediate value in addition? There are any number of things that could have torpedoed the deal here. Graterol is obviously not fully recovered at best and at worst, still injured. Possibly severely enough to lower his value and change his overall prospect status. Stop blaming Boston for not knowing something that was unknowable until the trade was agreed upon.
Honestly nobody here truly knows what happened. Is it possible that the Twins concealed some serious additional injury or condition? Sure. Is it possible that the Sox are trying to make something out of nothing to extract more value out of the trade? Absolutely. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Medical reports can often be ambiguous, especially when trying to predict future risk of injury. Only the people who have actually seen the medical reports know for sure what is happening. Everything from us is just a guess.
Spot on. No one has any idea what’s going on. We know he had TJS and an impingement. We also know he was throwing 100 in October. Maybe the RS doctors see something they think is dangerous, while an equally qualified MN doctor sees nothing.
How many years has it been since Tanaka had his elbow problem? Still pitching.
Allrise, just look at the video of Graterol throwing his wipeout fastball against the Yankees in the ALDS. Not fully recovered? The only real question was why would the Twins be so silly to unload a pitcher who can sit down the Yanks like Graterol. In that regard the Red Sox might want to take him asap and clam up.
Throwing 100 after TJ and a shoulder injury may very well be the reason his medicals don’t check out for Boston’s doctors. Throwing hard isn’t the only part of being a pitcher, and the fact that Minnesota was so willing to give up him for Kenta Maeda of all people suggests they know something about his health that nobody else knew and were hoping Boston wouldn’t figure out that they got fleeced until it was too late.
If a prospect like Graterol was really what the Twins advertised him to be, a healthy flamethrower with a high ceiling, they wouldn’t have parted with pitching at a time when they need all they can get. Graterol clearly, at minimum, isn’t as healthy as Minnesota said he was, at least according to Boston’s doctors and I’m sure several others.
I have new respect for a Yankee fan that actually gets it…. nicely stated.
Seriously, the number of people on this thread who are bashing Boston for wanting fair value for one of the 5 best players on the planet are preposterous. I’d love nothing more than to see Betts shipped out and Boston mail in the season, but the Twins trying to, seemingly, underhandedly unload damaged goods is just bad for the game.
I hope the trade falls through and Brusdar Graterol wins a Cy Young award for the Twins in 2 years. Damn it.
Haha, I want to hear the tone of that “Damn it”. My buddy would always top stories off by a finishing touch like that.
It could happen!!! Damn it.
ALL players trades are subjective to medical reviews. This is a perfect storm where 4 teams are involved. After the Pomeranz mess I am not surprised the Red Sox are saying enough is enough with teams hiding stuff in their medical reports.
I posted on an earlier, when the trade wasn’t even announced, that it would be funny if it was the Twins prospect that would hold it up. That turned out to be prophetic. I thought it would be Verdugo’s back/oblique and Price’s elbow. They both passed.
check out Nostradamus over here
In Boston he is known as Nostraahhh-daaahh-mus.
This trade was wicked haaaard.
Boras and Clark do not agree on the commodity point. It’s contradictory. Players are in fact well paid commodities, and that’s why Boras is a very rich man. It’s such a dumb, labor union thing to say. Just imagine a world were the players always owned their own labor and they all split the revenue equally after paying all their expenses.
Boras saying something stupid? LOL just about everything he says is garbage.
Been my opinion for years, that Boras is baseballs biggest problem.
“…too often Players are treated as commodities by those running the game.”
To Tony Clarke: Baseball is a business, and the players actually are a commodity…
I think we should get rid of all the players, the ungrateful wretches. We could have the owners and front offices go out and play; I’m sure that the MLB Network would cover them and that TV ratings would be just fine. And fans would pay $200 a night to bring their family out.
Careful what you wish for. I imagine in 50 years (if the world lasts that long) millionaire human players will be replaced with quite acceptable and quirky and individualistic robot players who won’t get paid a penny. I could be wrong but I think I’m right; luckily, I’ll be dead by then.
Injuries could get interesting…
Why not just find a different 3rd team??
I hope Manfred gets sick of it and doesn’t approve the trade.
Why give Boston exactly what they want?
I’d like to see the Twins take back Graterol and offer Zack Littell and either Sean Poppen/Jorge Alcala to the Red Sox, or, if necessary, in a separate deal to the Dodgers for Maeda. Graterol would be the dominant closer the Twins have needed. Since the consistently inconsistent Trevor May and Tyler Duffey will be FAs after ‘20 and ‘21 it didn’t make sense to offer Graterol in the first place. Under no circumstance should the Twins give up more than Graterol for Maeda.
Twins should swap out Graterol with Enlow and then add depth to the deal with Dobnak and Littell.
Whatever. I hope the Red Sox blow the whole thing up and walk away. I’d rather have Betts another year and be stuck with Price than take on Verdugo, a scumbag complicit in the assault of a seventeen year old woman.
People were complaining when the doctors impressions led to the Astros blowing up the agreement in principle with Brady Aiken.
The doctors were right in that one too.
The part that makes you KNOW the medical aspect of this is complete BS is that they now want to add a top 10 prospect to the deal….
Lives in limbo??? Will they be making millions with teams they are on or same millions with another team ?? Boo boo what a rough life.
yeah, i think Arte has a right to be mad about this
I love how half the anti-union types in this thread are all over Clark just because…well, its just any reason to, and they can’t even understand is the problem is when the teams announced the trade. Everything leading up to the trade was totally fine and par for the course. Instead of both teams announcing the trade, they should have said “both teams have agreed to the structure of the deal” which is the correct language here. Then after everyone passes physicals, you announce the trade.
When a team announces a trade, in the press that means it’s completed. This has screwed a lot of people’s lives here, people have zero idea how many satellite companies exist based on MLB. Its not just “the millionaire player”.
But why are the other half of the anti-union types all over Clark?
Tony Clark is a piece of crap…He screwed over the Red Sox as a player and it still continues today. His true colors shine through with every statement!
and the sox leaked the medical of a player.
I don’t recall ANY team issuing a press release announcing the trade?
Source?
Cancel the deal send everbody back to “Start” with no one allowed to pass GO.Then roll the dice again.
Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.
“The events of this last week have unfairly put several Players’ lives in a state of limbo.”
Like the real world when people lose a job, relocate, etc.
” too often Players are treated as commodities by those running the game.”
Then stop referring to it as a “business’
I’ve lost three jobs because of relocation. In one of them, my boss came into my office one week after I was hired to say he was leaving. It’s almost like the world doesn’t act as planned sometimes.
All these posts are missing the real point –
Under Henry, the Red Sox have a track record of administrators interfering with their GM / Baseball Ops guy. Only DD had the cache to get past that.
The Sox baseball people knew the issue with Graterol – what FO in MLB doesn’t?
This is Sox FO politics. Someone(s) is trying to clip Bloom’s wings on his first major move and got to Henry.
Note the leaking on the “Red Sox Reportedly Plan To Name Ron Roenicke Manager” as the clueless media happily went along.
Samuel. The Owner is the boss. He can veto a trade. A Doctor looks at the medical records and makes an evaluation, Medical records are confidential, they are not public information.
The Sox baseball people knew the issue with Graterol – what FO in MLB doesn’t?
—————————————————————————–
Nonsense. Everyone knew he had TJS and everyone knew he had a should impingement.
But that’s all meaningless until you look at the MRIs. Think of it like going to the doctor for a bad knee. The doctor knows you have a bad knee, but he doesn’t know how bad without looking at the MRIs. Maybe it is a slight meniscus tear that you might literally never need to deal with. Maybe you two months away from an operation.
Why is it that so many people in here don’t understand this obvious fact?
Because common sense is in short supply.
Being reasonable isn’t allowed.
And keeping a clear and level head would make one a pariah.
Yes, common sense is in short supply. Let’s review –
This trade dragged out for a week with “any day…” in the media.
The Twins badly need starting pitching. They are on a budget. They have a young top prospect ready to pitch, yet they put him in the bullpen and make no mention of the fact that he’ll compete for a starting job in 2020? They take on a #4-5 starter making 300-600% more then the prospect they gave up that has another 5-6 years of control.
That trade involved hundreds of millions of dollars. The Red Sox alone had to have at least 50 people on staff – from scouts to personnel people to medical people to lawyers to marketing people to who knows – going over every single detail multiple times. Meetings. Emails. Phone Calls. Skype communications. They know the stakes. The other 3 teams did as well, and they had at least dozens of people each going over all aspects of the transactions they were involved in. All know the media is hovering.
Yet they need a medical report to tell them that Graterol cannot hold up as a starter? One of the least important players in a trade that involved 4 franchises? The Red Sox owner didn’t know the situation until he got a medical report on a prospect?
This is a mess. Something is more then a bit funny here.
So what you are saying Samuel is you buy a car because it will drive down the road without checking out the engine or taking it to a mechanic to see how long it will last or if there are any hidden issues.
In the end, they talked over based on the information they had available to them. Which was a prospect that primarily was a starting pitcher in minors and ranked as one of their best prospect..
I mean i guess there is the off chance a team COULD bring up a very young starter and throw em in the bullpen when rosters expanded to get them a taste of the big leagues but i mean that would be damn near impossible right? No one would want to ever even think to do that.
If the twins are so sure about their prospect, why not offer condition that he could be returned for another top prospect between ranks say 3-8 based on an agreed source if an injury occurs to that potential area or receive some kind of additional compensation. It will “move” this along.
@Samuel-
They take on a #4-5 starter making 300-600% more then the prospect they gave up that has another 5-6 years of control.
That trade involved hundreds of millions of dollars. The Red Sox alone had to have at least 50 people on staff – from scouts to personnel people to medical people to lawyers to marketing people to who knows – going over every single detail multiple times. Meetings. Emails. Phone Calls. Skype communications. They know the stakes. The other 3 teams did as well, and they had at least dozens of people each going over all aspects of the transactions they were involved in. All know the media is hovering.
Yet they need a medical report to tell them that Graterol cannot hold up as a starter?
——————————————-
1-It is a ridiculous assertion that Maeda is a #4-5. I believe he is #39 over the past four years, and incredibly consistent. And he has 4 more years, so it is not like the 6 years left of a prospect is some huge advantage.
2-And, again, you seem to think that, just because the RS FO can read on MLBTraderumors, that Graterol has had TJS, that this is somehow equivalent to a doctor reading MRIs. Next time your knee hurts, why even go to the doctor? Just call the doctor up and tell him your knee hurts. Why bother with an MRI?
Sorry, but your post makes no sense.
Clark, Boras, Moreno can all kick rocks they should know that a trade isn’t finales until medicals are reviewed. Information is leaked so fast nowadays that something like this was bound to happen at some point. People there was no trade until medicals and physicals. Before everyone was trying to get the trade out there first these things weren’t announced until the trade was finalized. It wasn’t finalized Mookie and Price were never called by the front office to tell them they are being traded to the Dodgers it was media trying to get a jump. Most of the time they are right but in this case Boston sees something they don’t like in Graterol’s medicals. People the trade wasn’t finalized yet everyone overreacted this had nothing to do with front office politics this is simply a trade that was announced by the media before it was finalized simple as that. I’m sure Bloom can give a rats ass about what those guys think. Bloom is just going to do what he thinks is the best interest of the Red Sox and that is that end of story.
Don’t really care if they’re miffed. This isn’t a long delay and the concerns are completely understandable.
Yup. I’m a RS fan. I don’t care if it takes a couple of days to resolve. Folks were complaining last week that a trade was taking too long. I think they just like the action.
Let’s be clear the Red Sox are trading arguably the 2nd best player in the game and a very accomplished left handed startling pitcher who appear to take the Dodgers from a very good team to potentially the best (at least top 2) teams in MLB. Definitely the National League best in terms of talent. Still need to play the games but they won 106 without Betts and Price.
They’re paying about 50% of Price’s salary. So in return they are getting Alex Verdugo who is a talented prospect that has had shoulder injuries along with some obvious maturity issues. But he has good talent with upside and he passed his physical. Then they are supposed to be receiving the so called #1 pitching prospect of the Twins who throws 96 to 100 and should be a really good starting pitcher for years. At least that’s what they were led to believe. So they receive his medicals only to learn that he’s not ready or capable of being a starting pitcher at least not for a few years. That’s a bunch of BS. Why should the Red Sox agree to the deal just because some feelings might be hurt and some player families are in limbo for a few days as to their new team. They are a bunch of spoiled babies who are out of touch with the real world. They need to get over themselves. If the Twins misled the RS they should step up and fix the problem. If not it’s really up to the Dodgers since they involved the Twins to achieve what the RS wanted in the deal. Otherwise the RS should say if we can’t come to an agreement by Sunday, let’s kill the deal and move on. Others teams (Padres etc.) would love to trade for Betts and if the RS are willing to pay 50% of Price’s salary that’s a quality starting pitcher for $15M a year for the next 3 years. I laugh pretty hard when I read comments that the RS should just accept the deal as is and move on. They can easily keep Betts and Price and pay the CBT fees, then maybe trade Mookie and Price at the July trade deadline unless the team is playing really well. If I were them I would never accept damaged goods because some players or teams are upset or their feelings are hurt. I will be very surprised if they don’t figure out an acceptable solution to this deal. I thought it was strange that the Twins were willing to trade their #1 pitching prospect for Kenta Maeda but now it all makes sense. He’s damaged goods.
tldr
LOL
Just felt like saying…… The Houston Astros suuuuuuck!
Lol – but do you believe the Astros were the only team cheating? And I would question how much that cheating really helped them win vs all the talent they had and still have. I’m not an Astros fan but I believe the problem was systemic in MLB. The Astros got caught. Let’s see what the Commissioner says about the Red Sox next week. I hate the cheating but I think a lot of teams were playing that dirty technology sign stealing game. Hopefully it’s over…
It was good to see AJ Hinch do an interview and stand up to be accountable. I hope Alex Cora and Carlos Beltran do the same. If it’s true most of the banging trash can scheme came from Beltran, I hope he steps up and says “this was my fault” not AJ Hinch or Alex Cora. I (Carlos) was the key stakeholder to drive the scheme every day even when we knew AJ was not on board. Obviously the players were on board. They should at least acknowledge publicly one time what they did was wrong and unacceptable and then end the discussion and go play the game w//integrity.
I could never be called a Boston fan but in this instance i can totally understand their hesitation if they spotted something in the Medicals. It would seem very likely ( due diligence ) that they knew they were not getting a mid rotation starter or higher . Very likely they thought they might be getting a young stud closer of the future . Look no further then the Blue Jays trade with the White Sox back in Dec 2011 for Sergio Santos.we thought we were getting our stud closer and he missed 85% of the first 2 years due to injuries. In fact he required surgery soon after the start of the 2012 season. It was rumored at the time that there had been issues noted in his medical but the jays went ahead with the trade. Classic case of buyer beware. However as i mentioned in another thread on the trade if the Sox back out of this and Betts were to get injured prior to trade deadline!!, they might get very little as a return. Food for thought.
“Get the trade done! Betts won’t extend and Price is mean.” – Red Sox fan
Who cares what Clark, Boras, Moreno think.
I care what Moreno thinks. I’ve disliked him since he bagged on Hamilton. Hamilton was a recovering drug addict. Moreno knew the risks when he signed him. He then he apoplectic when Hamilton has a relapse.
I hope the current deal is superseded by a deal cutting out LAA, just just watch Moreno’s head explode.
Your ri
interesting how it’s unethical for MLB teams to release medical information but when Scott boras does it it’s okay
You’re right on gmb 883
Tell Clark and Boros to go pound sand already…
The idea that Tony Clark’s outrage is worth more than random sound waves is laughable. He is already well known as the worst MLBPA representative in its otherwise exemplary history. Boras is just doing his job, knowing that Graterol is worth more in the long run if perceived as a starter (although great call @g8752). And Moreno? Really, who cares?
BOS has only been “reported” to be worried about Graterol’s medicals — they have issued no statements — so they have broken no privacy rules. Did BOS leak it? There’s no indication of that. You’d think that LAD is the most motivated to get it done, so maybe it was them. Or both. Probably not MIN.
Either way, a extra week won’t matter. Either BOS will get an extra lottery ticket from MIN or some sort of PTBNL based on whether or not Graterol needs another surgery in the next year or whatever. Or maybe they just cut MIN out, BOS will take Maeda and give LAD less cash for Price. Or they find another third trading partner. There’s no way this scuttles the larger deal.
I don’t think it took me 10 seconds to realize that it was a really bad deal for the players. And as I learned more, I realized it was even worse than I had imagined.
IRT the trade, I too assume it will go thru in one form or another. Most of the deal is Verdugo for Betts. Bloom is probably looking more long-term than I am, but the difference between Maeda & Graterol doesn’t look that big.
True but the difference between Graterol and Maeda is clearly big enough to Bloom that they went out and roped MIN into the deal. Maeda is a win-now play, even though he has four years remaining under contract. To MIN’s credit, this shows that they are going for it this year. (OTOH, maybe they were just trying to trade their damaged Corvette for a solid Camry.) Graterol is a future play with pretty interesting potential either as an Eovaldi-like starter or a late-inning reliever if he stays healthy.
Any talented prospect being injured sucks, so let’s all hope everything checks out in the end and we can start watching baseball again in a couple weeks.
Agreed – Sounds like the RS are willing to take Graterol and see how things go with his arm issues but understandably, they want more. He’s obviously not what they thought from a health perspective. So either the Twins step up (as they want Maeda as an add to their staff to make a run this year) with another good starting pitcher prospect or the Dodgers step up with one of their prospects or find a 4th team to compensate the RS. Of course the Dodgers will have to give the 4th team a player or cash etc. I think we all know this deal won’t die because it’s hard to go back after players know their is an agreed trade in place. Mookie would be fine because he’s a true professional and he loves playing in Boston (just wants $400M) but Price would probably be difficult. The young players are not established so it’s not likely to be an issue for them. I hate the prima-donna complaining because they play a game they love while making a lot of $$$. If they want to choose where they play become a FA and get your agent to market yourself to that team. Otherwise shut up and play. Lol