It’s well known that Major League Baseball owners and players have been at loggerheads over several important issues during the sport’s shutdown. One of the key disagreements centers on the length of a potential season. The union side proposed a 114-game campaign with full prorated salaries over the weekend, but the owners clearly have other ideas.
While they have already proposed a sliding pay scale based on an 82-game schedule, they’ve at least kicked around the idea of something in the vicinity of 50 games. Even as few as 42 contests is a possibility, according to Bill Shaikin and Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times. At least to the owners, that would offer some sort of season while mitigating teams’ monetary losses during a year in which there may not be any fans in the stands. MLB claims it would lose $4 billion if there’s an 82-game, spectator-less season in which the players would receive full prorated salaries.
As of now, however, a 50-game season doesn’t look like something the players are going to accept. Commissioner Rob Manfred is allowed to implement as long or short a schedule as he wants; however, as Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic reported earlier, the players may be able to object based on the agreement the sides made in March. That deal says the commissioner’s office must make “best efforts to play as many games as possible.”
The players, like the owners, have finances near the forefront of their minds during this standoff. The league’s potential proposal would entitle the players to prorated salaries, but it wouldn’t move the needle enough for them during a severely truncated campaign. As Travis Sawchik of FiveThirtyEight tweets, 50 games is “not acceptable” to the union side. Furthermore, Sawchik points out this potential proposal wouldn’t make nearly enough of a financial difference in the players’ minds. They’d earn roughly 31 percent of their pay – about the same total as owners offered in their first proposal – per Sawchik.
Beyond the money factor, there’s concern on the players’ side over whether a 50-game season would be worthwhile, Jesse Rogers of ESPN.com explains. For instance, would it behoove the players to put themselves at greater risk for injury or contraction of the coronavirus during what would essentially be one-third of a typical season, wherein they’d earn far less money than expected? Rogers also wonders how such a shortened season could affect salaries down the line, as teams and players would have to weigh such a small sample of statistics in future contract talks.
This continues to look like a dire situation for the game, especially with time running out toward actually starting any kind of season (remember, the players would still have to go through another few weeks of spring training beforehand). Now, if the owners don’t offer another counter-proposal, the players will be “done” talking, Sawchik reports.
I just want to see some baseball to be able to enjoy something. It’s been quite the crazy year.
There’s going to be no MLB this year. Thanks so much scamdemic! Hopefully the fans come back. A lot turned their backs on MLB after the 1994 strike. This really is no different. It’s a game not a job just play it. I’ve been a baseball fan 30 years but this is starting to make me sick.
It is literally a job
What are you talking about? Lol they get paid to do a job…
It’s a game. You would gladly play it at the big level for next to nothing.
Its a game he says…what an idiot.
Lets be aware of the fans. Billionaires arguing against multimillionaires. It is just a game for than fans and during this crisis the league on both sides should get their #@*& together and lets play ball.
Timmy, you make a fair point. As a commenter said in another article, it’s the top 1% vs the top 0.1% . From the fans’ persepctive, it’s pretty deplorable. Yet it still is a labor dispute between management and labor. If either side gives up too much, it is poor negotiating skills. It sure would be refreshing to have owners open up their books. I suspect some small market tanking teams as well as owners like the Wilpons would have plenty of mud on their face if their books became open to the public.
“Scamdemic”? Is that American right-wing for ‘pandemic’? It’s a serious question. I live in Canada, which is a country like our Western European, Australian, and NZ allies. We’re serious people, not trying to fit in in some 4Chan cretin space. We’re not impressed by clowncar. phrases mimicked from Rupert Murdoch’s rightwing media outlets.
We get to watch, with no pleasure at all and in fact with considerable dismay, as your ‘country’ (to the extent it remains one) descends to the level of a wealthy banana republic, on a moral par with Saudi Arabia, Brazil and Russia. While it is interesting to watch this descent, it is one which as I said, causes no pleasure.
So if you;d like to discuss baseball, that’s what this board is for. But if you’d rather mimic whatever your Realty TV Clownshow leader just said, or what you were told on Murdoch’s propaganda network (which by the way isn’t even shown in the advanced world as it’s nothing more than a compilation of hate, racism and stupidity, packaged for those in the US drawn to the gutter), then please take your ‘scamdemic’ polemic (to give it a better word than it’s worth) to 4Chan or some other propaganda board..
Thanks. Hopefully you’ll give us your baseball comments from here on,
@Wilnersm Well said. Please move to the US and vote.
Your comment was too well thought out and Fox News didn’t give @manfredisajoke talking points for that so don’t count on a response
dynamite drop in monty
Post of da year!
Less deadly than the flu and we shut down our entire economy. Your country has less people than my state, your leader is a blackface hypocrite. Left wing media in this country is comically treasonous. Take your high horse and jump off a bridge
Seriously the individual used one catchphrase while the remainder of his or her post pertains to baseball. The fact the you devolved into a little rant indicates you are the one with an agenda. I am not a supporter in anyway of the current US administration but your country has plenty of problems too. Concern yourself less with the land to the south and a little more with latent racism in Quebec and the disgraceful treatment of your indigenous peoples.
And also the disaster that is Canada Post.
wild bill tetley
Wilner, stop talking. You bought into the comment by responding from a position of hypocrisy. You basically feel your opinion means more than the person’s opinion you responded to. How is that right?
Not sure what “Realty” tv show you are referring to. Your name suggests you are an uninformed Blue Jays fan fed with lies from Rogers-owned entities. You buy into the propaganda and thus easily influenced. Again, please stop talking. You really do not know much judging by your handle.
You sir are a major league clown!
Wilnersm = triggered.
It is a little odd that the entire country was afraid to stop social distancing until there was something to protest/riot about.
There doesn’t seem to be much concern for the virus right now in most major cities.
Wilner, am I remembering correctly that you have been coming down against the players and their Union during these negotiations?
If thats true… after reading your above comment, I find it incredibly ironic and down right funny you would take a Right Wing stance on the issue.
Its the Left that has long supported Labor and Unions, all the way back to early Marx. The Right has long been against Unions. Moderate Right feels each individual should market their skills to potential employers on a free market basis, and the Far Right just assumes Unions are a Communist construct and a tool of the Devil.
You basically feel your opinion means more than the person’s opinion you responded to. How is that right?
America in a nutshell.
You can have an opinion, but you don’t have the right to demand that anyone respect it.
Is the concept of a bunch of people thinking independently confusing to you?
Ghostrobot and facts have an uncomfortable relationship.
Pax, have you spoken with many people abroad? Our president (who cannot lead)is a joke to most of the world that embraces democracy.
President who can’t lead? You mean the guy who brought us the lowest unemployment and strongest economy until the hoax? That guy?
@wilnersm, that’s a whole lot of politics and political assumptions to tell someone to not reference politics.
What is best—for the good of the game—died with Bart Giamatti. I wouldn’t be surprised to not see baseball again until 2021.
Yes the guy who had peaceful protestors tear gassed and shot with rubber bullets for a photo op.
@bot 18% CFR for Covid-19 vs 0.1% for the flu. If you don’t know what that means then GTFO.
You mean more deadly, since it kills a higher percent of infected people.
If they seeded nursing homes w influenza intentionally and purposefully mischaracterized homicides as influenza then influenza would probably have a higher CFR as well. Not to mention that Israel discovered today that 10x the people they thought have it actually already have had it. It’s ok to be sad your political party is full of hacks but you should be mad that they’re lying to you, telling you to shut down your business, arresting hairdressers, and then encouraging mass riots and looting.
@wilnersm, thank you.
Youraweakdude: The guy who cannot govern nor lead. Those are two basic qualities needed for a president. if you consider the pandemic a hoax, you may try to improve your critical thinking skills.
As we said in the ‘60’s “ Right on!”
There are flu vaccines. You don’t think that affects the number of deaths.
He did nothing but embarrass the world. All economies all over the world were booming. It has nothing to do with that assclown and you know it.
Paddy, you need to consider English classes. YOU’RE.
You say, have you noticed since the riots started there has been NO WORD about the Hoaxid-19?
You are (you’re) wrong, teacher. lol
Don’t even reply if you’re just going to argue about politics, this is a baseball website. You should take your own advice and just give us your own baseball comments from here on.
Yeah, we said in the late 70s too, lol
No, more like brittle old white men who cry when someone takes a knee….triggered into their own COPD or heart disease.
@Manfreds, it sounds like you’re old enough to think a bit more before entering a comment. Maybe you could give that radical idea give a try.
starting to make me sick of the whole thing too. i’ve been playing fantasy baseball since the late 90’s and while there have been ups and downs, this takes the cake. if there is ANY season at all this year, things will have to start happening at light speed. i’ve been surprised at how retardedly insistent the nba and nhl have been on finishing their current seasons. even at the risk of compromising next season, which is very much in serious jeopardy itself. dimtards have no sense of reality. they want to keep the country shut down to ruin the economy but they voted to finish their season. isn’t that cute. the league is going to lose billions, but let’s argue that we want more money. maybe we can bankrupt the mlb. let’s see some official announcements about dates and scheduling and quit the lebronese jive talk. that’s why i haven’t given a crap about the nba for 20 years and MLB is getting almost as bad.
Whole things gonna really be over once the first teacher misses a paycheck
There will be baseball.
There will be mlb this year. Night have to be a really small amount of games. Who cares. Baseball is Baseball. We’ll get at least 81 games.
I don’t see why not.
There are 96 days from July 1 to October 4.
So they can get up to 96 games in, taking one day off every other week and playing one double header every 2 weeks- one home and one on the road.
The owners’ claim about losing money by playing more games is just false. Unless they are guaranteed all TV revenue regardless of whether games are played, they get more revenue per game than they pay in salaries. And if it’s all guaranteed, they ain’t losing money because of playing games.
So both sides have incentive to play more games. Manfred is just using the number of games to extract more concessions from the players, and this is not the time to do it.
July 1st? You really think that is even remotely possible? Any player that was considering holding off surgery should do it now. Example:Chris Archer. There will not be a season, so there’s no sense in losing out 2021 to surgery.
This is the season where the Mariners put it all together just have a fat asterisk next to it
Keep haggling over silly money as people riot, unemployment increases, and our societies deep issues are bleeding out on tv
agreed so many other important things the country needs to address before baseball billionaires and millionaires whine about not getting what THEY think they deserve.
That’s because everybody just cares about themselves and this been going on since the beginning of time. and probably why people say just play baseball we don’t care if the owners lose money. As long as I get my baseball games in.
Unemployment went down last week. FYI
That’s good. People going back. So used to the up-left trend…
Here’s the latest. Just like it was a month ago, there still won’t be a season.
The owners don’t want a season. Not without gate revenue. These proposals are simply a way to try to position the lost season as the players’ fault. Ugly & transparent. Bad stewardship of the game.
There will be gate revenue though. Maybe not immediately but there will be
just cancel the season since both sides are being crybabies about the length of season and money. no play no pay.
Yeah I want it cancelled as well. But my team is totally devoid of any talent. Might feel different if my team had a chance to win.
these over paid babies need to get their asses on the field today !!!
Said from behind a device while your shoulder is likely similar in size to some ballplayers’ wrists.
That’s exactly what the billionaires who own these teams want you to say/think.
I agree with the players in that I want more games played and their original salary offer was really bad, but the players have to offer to give some too here!
They did. They offered to play 114 games for a salary prorated for 82 games.
Are you sure that’s true? My general understanding was the prorated pay was for all 114 proposed games, so roughly 70% of their contract would be earned. (This year alone)
Not sure thats true pads fans.
My understanding was they wanted to play 114 games for 114/162% of their original contract salary.
Even if there is a season. The winner of the World Series won’t feel like they really won.
I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. The WS champion will certainly feel like they won the WS.
It would be more respected than Houston’s 2017 title.
Get over the bs about Houston and their title. They won.
as will the team that wins this year.
They won like the reds in 1919, sure
Oh I see. Betting on games is the same as so called sign stealing? Great analogy. Not to mention the eras being light years apart.
no they will. its only fans that think that way. the 2020 champion in whatever sport is still the champion regardless.
MLB continued on in spite of WWII because the country and it’s people needed it during hard times. Nowadays it’s millionaires and billionaires arguing over money while the nation is in turmoil and desperate for a distraction and some hope. Terrible look for both sides.
Yes, millionaires and billionaires do argue over money. Not sure what makes that such a revelation.
this isnt a war. there is much more of a domestic threat present here.
@BKS1110, as a history buff, I think you made a great point. The circumstances (war vs. pandemic) are certainly different, but the point remains: distractions like sports are good for people.
Most all of the players fought in WW2. They had batter with 1 arm playing they were so desperate for players.
The owners appear to be outmaneuvering the players on this. They can make basically any claim that they are using best efforts to play the most games – health, scheduling, travel, integrity of game.
The players will look bad if they decide not to play 60 games when the other sports are starting up in crazy formats to finish their 2020 seasons. They’ve agreed to pro-rated salaries in the previous agreement, and now they’re upset that the money isn’t enough.
Separately – what a strange world we live in that the management is asking for fewer games, and the labor is asking for more.
It’s been clear since the start of these “negotiations” that the objective of ownership has been to make the players look bad if they failed to produce a season. It’s all about who is blamed, not about solutions. This cyncial ploy seems to work like a charm for a lot of fans.
That may be an owner objective but it also appears that’s the players’ objective too. The owners said that they wanted to pay less than the pro-rated pay for 82 games and the players countered with not only would they get paid more than that but that any player who didn’t want to play could opt out and still get paid. All you need is a high risk family member and any parent over 65 is high risk.
Maybe but I put more of this on ownership’s doorstep because they had to know from the start that the players were never going to accept revenue numbers on faith alone. The money in the game is the one big secret that ownership is determined to protect not just now but for next year’s CBA negotiations. They’ve been playing hide the pickle all along.
Unlike the players’ unions in other sports the MLBPA has never shown a willingness to work with MLB owners. You can say that’s deserved since MLB owners have colluded and not treated the players well. That said, the owners have a strategy for negotiating with the players and it’s naive to think they’ll abandon that because of the pandemic.
I wish MLB was like the NFL and NBA, two sports owners and players are in it together but it isn’t.
Personally, I think the owners need to cave. They may lose more money but they’re going to lose money regardless. No matter how they squeeze the players they aren’t getting the revenue. They can’t afford to lose the season. Save the hard line for next year’s CBA negotiations.
I think you are correct, but I also think you are a savvy consumer of this kind of stuff (just being on MLBTR proves it). You’re looking at the games both are playing and seeing it like it is.
I don’t know how the players are going to spin this for sports radio/newspaper and TV snippets – where many of their casual fans are.
I want you to take a percentage of revenue, but I’m not going to tell you what that revenue is. You just have to trust me.
That is what the owners are trying to do here. F that.
You want me to take a percentage of the revenue you get, open your books and show me penny for penny what that revenue is. Otherwise GTFO.
In what ways should the players be working with the owners? Serious question.
I don’t believe the owners will abandon their strategy. I expect them to stick to the script and hope all the blame falls on the players. That is the script now just as it always has been. My point is it’s a mistake that they’ve made before and will again, probably.
Ownership should be looking at this longterm. Most of them will still be owners long after most of the current players are retired. They should flip a few pages back in the baseball history book to see how labor unrest has damaged the sport and hurt their business. The fundamental problem as I see it is ownership is fragmented and couldn’t decide on the day of the week if their lives depended on it. The commissioner is put in a weak position because he always has to be able to count to at least 15. A stronger and more decisive management structure would help.
This is good. I’m surprised how cavalierly the owners are with respect to putting the games back on. Just as many food businesses here in NYC are open for pickup and delivery, even though they are probably losing money, they are also serving the community, and the community will remember them when things reopen. I don’t believe many baseball fans will “quit” next year if baseball returns, but it’s altogether possible that some just won’t spend at the same level or go to as many games. That’s going to hurt the bottom line.
That, and flat out lying about their financial circumstances.
All this maneuvering by both sides is more about the 2021 CBA negotiations than it is about this year.
The owners probably do own the trump card, they can say we are going to play X number of games and there is not much the players can do about it other than strike. I am sure they realize that is not the best strategy and will likely play whatever season is put upon them as long as they get their pro-rated salaries as agreed to in March.
In the March agreement the owners said that they had to make every effort to play as many games as possible and no where does it say in front of fans. The MLBPA has already presented a plan to play 114 games. The owners presented a plan to play 82 games. They can’t come back with less than that number or they violate the agreement.
The march agreement also calls for economic feasability.
Mlb’s comments are consistent.
114 games at mlbpa proposed 114/162% salary is unfeasible.
82 games at 82/162% was unfeasible and not proposed by MLB. What was proposed was a reduced sliding scale salary that appears to be equivalent to playing 82 games at a salary equivalent to somewhere around 50-ish/162% original
So 50ish games at 50ish/162% salary IS consistent.
I don’t even want to see them come back at this point, and let the players get nothing. I’m not one to usually, or ever, side with ownership. But they need to lock out the players. Manfred, the owners and the MLBPA need to restructure the financial model of the sport to match that of the NFL and NBA. The disparity in local television revenues, even with revenue sharing, is out of control and is only going to get worse.
The MLBPA has nothing to do with baseball’s financial model, media revenue, or the revenue disparities between the teams. That is entirely on the owners.
So yeah, the solution is locking out the players. Sheesh.
There should be a salary cap and a salary floor with more revenue sharing between teams.
If the players don’t step up there will not be a season and they won’t be paid anything more than the first amount owner’s gave when the shutdown began. Privately owned companies are not required or expected to open their books – that is a dumb request. Whether it is $4 billion or some other number, owners will lose money with no fans in attendance. The only question is, do the players want to be paid at all. I’m sure the Angels would rather not pay Pujols and the Padres not pay Hosmer.
Asking the owners to open their books was not a dumb request when the players were expected to split revenue. They had every right to know exactly what revenue was being considered, and more importantly, what revenue was not being considered.
I used to agree with you about the idea that the owners would lose money playing without fans. Then a lot of people took a hard look at the owners calculations and found them to be amiss. So no, it is not a given the owners will lose money playing without fans even if a season is 82 games long. A shorter season means more than likely the owner make money. The owners have benefited from record revenues the past several seasons, so they could afford a loss this year in order to save a season. But instead they choose to play games and negotiate in bad faith with the players.
But the players have no power. All they can do is sit out and not get paid. Good luck with that.
Scott Boras says something entirely different.
The numbers I’ve seen from fangraphs state that the owners will make money on every extra regular season game. However, the owners are proposing fewer games, which is consistent with “we are losing money on every regular season game”. They’re trying to mitigate losses without losing the season. I agree that the owners’ numbers can’t be taken at face value and the losses are probably exaggerated, but people who don’t have the books don’t know what they’re talking about because they have incomplete information.
The players proposing a 32 game increase and another salary advance wasn’t exactly in good faith either. It was a way to get players 114/162 of their salary instead of 82/162 while exacerbating regular season losses for the owners. The cherry on top was pushing the playoffs out until November, where there’s a higher likelihood of playoff cancellation.
Fangraphs’ calculations are correct. The owners make money per game simply because TV revenues are greater than player salaries. The claim that they lose money playing more games is false. Unless their local TV revenue is guaranteed regardless of whether they play games, they make money per game. And if that were the case, they have plenty of money for salaries. Any losses come from non baseball activities.
The players made an opening offer that is a bargaining position. I find it more important that they opened the door to deferred salaries.
With 96 days in July, Aug, Sept, and the first four days of Oct, there are 96 days to play games. The March agreement says “as many games as possible”. They can get plenty of games in and make plenty of money.
@pauly,, They do if they are asking you to take revenue sharing. The owners are trying to say they are losing money but won’t show how. If they want the players to believe them, they have to open the books.
The question is not whether the owners will lose revenue, its if they will lose 100% of revenue by cancelling the season while still having expenses, or do they want to get some revenue?
Think about it baseball fans one would think that 2020 is a lost season wait until 2021 when and If when baseball is resumed fans will not return like it used to be it could take 5 years before it get back to normal the sad point is the fans has to suffer.
I would love to think about what you wrote, if I could decipher that one, long run-on sentence.
That sentence is an abomination. Unfortunately, as a college professor I get writing such as this in many undergraduate papers.
In all their furor with the owners who are trying to minimize damages from the pandemic, players seem to have forgotten that baseball’s enormous contracts exist only because the selfish, hearltess owners signed them.
Things will get far more acrimonious after this next free agent class. People were mad at the marlins and pirates for being cheap in Free Agency. Expect 2/3 of the league to be the Marlins next year as they internalize the risks to their business.
owners sign mega contracts to make more money out of them.
What’s going to really suck if there’s no season is the Dodgers traded all those assets for Mookie Betts with no guarantees he’s going to resign with them. Would hate to have to worry about that.
The second part of that is Mookie was offered a 10 yr deal for 300M and he won’t get that much after this trashing of the league is over.
Oh wait next is the good part with all the mouthing off by Boras he will get nothing this year if there is no season. Oh wait he will get maybe 5 percent of his share of players who got the 170M total!
with all the intrinsic risk of injury the same and likely even greater given most players are experiencing baseball downtime in april and may for the first times since middle or elementary school, I just don’t see a single starter ramping up their entire livelihoods and careers again for 8 starts before another offseason. The law of diminishing returns has likely eclipsed for starting pitchers entirely by now.
i honestly doubt you can call it downtime. most likely these teams have players working out to some extent from wherever they are. starters throwing short sim games per few days or throwing pitches each day. i don’t think they will need that much ST as well for that reason.
But then they don’t get paid
this is it. the owners have to open their books. they cant push for a short season in the claims that that is the only way they wolnt – not make less money – LOSE money and then not back up what would be a loss. if the owners could prove a x% loss in any large number of games, then players will move off their “no more cuts stance” and take that % cut to play that number of games. until owners are responsible, however, they will have to suck it up and take some losses. (if they would even lose money whilw paying the players in full, which isnt a given given that players could be making less than 10% of the overall money these teams take in in a normal year for all we know) im 100% with the players here – the cowardice of the owners must stop.
Cowardice of the owners? Thirty-four major league players have contracts for over $20 million this season. Many of that group would be overpaid if they received just a third of that amount. Owners were far too generous.
I will respectively disagree with you about owners opening up books. I don’t think they will nor should they. These are not public corporations that have to answer to investors. I’ve worked for private ant public companies, and the stark reality is that privately held companies only answer to themselves.
It’s simple. Do an 82 game season with prorated salaries and allow fans. Fans that aren’t afraid get to attend while those afraid can watch on TV. Players that don’t want to play can forfeit their pay for the yr but still accrue service time. The fans get games, the owners and players get money. Win-Win-Win
So those fans who aren’t “afraid” will never come in contact with those who are “afraid”?
Lose-lose-lose. Go to the back of the class.
People come in contact with sick people all the time and never thought anything about it until they were told to panic. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness doesn’t stop where unnecessary panic starts. Your kind of thinking is lose-lose-lose.
Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness means uneducated people like you don’t get to make important decisions for the rest of us.
A practical stance if we apply today’s social distancing measures and masks. Don’t leave the house if you feel ill, keep 3 seats between everyone and sanitize the heck out of the one or two sections that will get used. I would be willing to attend since my household doesn’t have any high-risk individuals and I would observe any rules that would be implemented. Sounds like a fair middle road.
I agree except for the masks. The heat and masks don’t mix. You’re just asking for heatstrokes.
I mentioned it because I think MLB would mandate it but I agree with you! In lieu of masks maybe temperature screenings at the turnstiles? We’re just spitballin’ here…
Unfortunately it is not that simple. If you could magically appear in your seat and not have to move at all it’s perhaps workable but since we live in reality, it is not. People will still have to move back and forth coming into closer contact with others. We all know everyone will be diligent for the first few weeks but as times goes on complacency will set in and bad things will happen. Also, although you may be healthy and no one in your immediate household is in a high risk demographic, you can still get sick and spread it to others, may it be at work or on the street
Why not? All jokes aside: limit contact, 6 feet of space, follow CDC rules, wear a mask in public, no handshakes, 3 people max occupancy in restrooms, etc. We can all make it work or at least try? The players on the field will be under the same microscope. I’m working on the assumption that crowds would be (very) limited. Everything goes to pot if anyone gets sick anyhow. I don’t think we know all the answers but it is a worthy discussion to ponder.
This. People clearly aren’t afraid of mass gatherings anymore. If we’re not ending this absurd isolation now we might as well pack it in and all go into padded rooms for the rest of our lives.
If the players do not accept what was agreed to in March( with them getting FULL pro rated salaries and 82 games, but not 114 games), then just cancel the season. Then it will be obvious the only “Health” they care about is their financial health.
However there was never an agreement to pro rated salaries that was never offered and the league and union both have email copies of that! So now what?
The owners just said full pro rated salaries. The players though are not getting 114 games and unless you are like Carlos Carasco who had Cancer, you are not getting paid without working
The March agreement did not specify 82 games. It said “as many games as possible”
If there is no season, I think the Phillies have to be awarded the championship since they had the best spring training winning percentage.
That’s the only way they’ll win one!
Loggerheads? Even my journalism teacher in High School said not to use that word – and that was a couple decades ago…
Baseball will be played as, right now, the only true hurdle is the number of regular season games. And the two sides are not that far apart.
I would LOVE to see baseball return. We need it. But due to the players’ disgusting greed and selfish, myopic view of the world, I hope the entire season is canceled and nobody gets paid anything. In fact, I don’t really give a damn if MLB ever comes back after their behavior during these troubled times.
The owners claiming $4.2 billion in losses is laughable. They are including each clubs debt payments. That’s not the players concern. Give a real dollar amount based on players cost and television income and give losses off of that. Fans have been loyal in many cases for their entire lifetimes. Treat them with respect and let’s get a season together.
Why shouldn’t the cost of the business be included?
Players are paid because of the time they invest but owners shouldn’t get paid for investing time and money?
Well surely if we are calculating “cost of business” aka the debt payments for the loans. Then surely we should include the increased value in assets that the owners have benefited from. These loans that are tied to the teams are often used to develop stadium sites and build up surrounding real estate. I don’t see the players asking for a piece of that.
But the return on investment (increased value of each franchise) is not recognized overnight. More so today. If new owner(s) have to pay, for example, $1 billion for a franchise, they’ll have to pay back that loan + interest and taxes. Owners are only going to reap the rewards of that investment (franchise value) if A). values skyrocket immediately, or B). after some length of time.
Also, I’ve never heard of a company including the value of a business into their day-today profit and loss. Such behavior would skew the balance sheet and make companies look more profitable than they really are. The SEC arrests people for such practices.
My patience is at an end. They get paid to do something that is nothing more than for our amusement. They are not important and we can live without them. We may be a on the verge of doing that anyway. I, for one, will have marginal interest if they can this season. The game has changed and is not nearly as fun to watch as it used to be. I live in Canada. Summer is our “nice weather” season and I certainly can find other things to do.
Valid point, have fun moose watching.
Good one. Did you see the moose that went pool hopping in people backyards in Ottawa this week. More entertaining than shifts and strikeouts. True story .
Sounds entertaining, I’ll have to look it up!
Baseball has about $850 million in national tv money for an 81 game season. Unless their are penalties in that contract, for less than 162 games, which is possible. There is probably an extended playoff kicker on those contract. Local tv contacts prorated range from 20 to over 150 million for rights. They will take some losses, some clubs more than others. Debt payments are most likely going to be due whether or not teams pay. The players are being greedy by trying to get 114 games in but the owners are more so by claiming personal debt as losses. That’s like claiming you make less money to your boss because of credit card debt.
I don’t think it’s possible for us to know what money they’ll receive nationally or locally. Their contracts are based on a particular number of games. If there are clauses that say what happens if MLB doesn’t deliver those games they could adjust payments in a way that isn’t proportional. Or the clause could simply make the contract null for the season MLB fails to deliver. Either way MLB will likely need to renegotiate these contracts just to maintain goodwill.
Yankee Stadium payments are quite different then personal credit card debt.
I don’t think those media contract revenue streams are as secure today as they were when the deals were struck.
I expect some will be trimmed in bankruptcy as media companies lose audience and advertising revenue.
Yeah but they can still get a whole season in. Play 10-12 7 inning games a week and start playing at 9am. Have baseball all day and people will watch. Instead owners bow to corporate pressure and choose scripted reality tv vs baseball
We should declare a national MLB Protest day and burn all the jerseys.
Send me a jersey and I’ll burn it for you. I have never owned one. I don’t buy or wear that stuff.
To the MLB and MLB players.. America needs you all.. with all that’s happening around this great country of ours.. we need you.. you all need to
Find a medium and get this season going.. baseball could be that shifts this horrible year we’re having into something more positive.. we need a positive change.. we need to see Cole hot 101 mph .. we need to see Mike Trout hit a 545 ft shot or climb the wall and steal one.. we need to hear the giants play by play announcer say…. IT. iS. OUT OF HERE!!!!!. Let’s go
People are waking up to the fact we are talking about entertainment. Like Netflix.
The only difference is the skills they bring that are different.
They had better resolve their issues. They need each other to survive.
No one needs baseball.
Owners are projecting losses vs “forecasted revenue.” So their loss claim is horse****.
That’s why they started with the split offer.
That always made the most sense. That way everyone loses (or wins) equally. It’s what they do in the other sports.
The owners proposed starting July 4th now they only want a 50 game season. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Screw both sides. I hope they don’t play at all.
They have a least another week before they need to make a deal. It looks to me like they end up aroung 82 games, with prorated salaries, after that the players will have to make some other concessions.
Lot of right wing but jobs on here today. It’s baseball not a political page Jesus
they tell players to take whatever is handed out to them by the league but they don’t follow stay-home directive.
Some people freely surrender their liberty. Others have a problem with that.
liberty comes with responsibility to the society. if you are not wearing masks and stay in public you are putting others to risks. where is their liberty to stay healthy?
They should’ve just mutually agreed to cancel the season back in March. That would’ve saved all this worthless drama which is going to damage the sport for a generation.
The bottom line is that neither side is negotiating in good faith. The players only want to play if they get most of their money, which means a season that’ll last all but to the beginning of winter. That idea is stunningly stupid and absolutely impossible. This is not up for debate.
The owners on the other hand, billionaires all, don’t want to do the right thing and absorb their losses. They’re being wildly tone deaf under the circumstances and frankly, if there was any justice in the world most of them would lose their franchises and end up destitute. This also is not up for debate.
The bottom line is that it’s one group of greedy rich people arguing with another group of greedy rich people with both sides lying through their teeth in attempt to get public support.
“If there was any justice in the world most of them would lose their franchises and end up destitute”… that is a bit of an over reaction don’t you think?
Shhhh, it’s not up for debate!
The game really needs an economic reset so maybe some good will come of a cancelled season if that is what ends up happening. It’s ridiculous that it costs what it costs to go to a game in certain markets. A family of 4 can’t even think about going to a game for less than $600 (minimum) between the tickets, the fees, the parking, the concessions, etc. Relatedly, no one needs to make $55K a plate appearance, or $1.2 million a start. Not Trout. Not Cole. Not anyone. So go ahead and cancel the season. Hopefully that will adjust the market (via the fans who really hold all the power anyway) and make the game more accessible and less expensive to enjoy.
According to Baseball Reference 68,494,752 people went to MLB games last year. The reason that prices are what they are is that people are willing to pay it. If magically every player in baseball decided to play for minimum wage, ticket prices wouldn’t be reduced. Ticket prices follow the laws of supply and demand, Besides, who are we to judge how much someone is worth? The Phillies decided Bryce Harper was worth 330 million. Harper didn’t write a blank check. The owners create the market value. Players just want management to live up to their obligations
The owners could go to a 76 game schedule and agree to a 152 game regular season going foreard. Anything less than that is a waste of time and effort for everyone.
But part of the deal has to be fans allowed in the stands under pre virus occupancy rules at all venues.
As a lifelong fan it pains me that it is june and we still dont have baseball. I totally understand why and support the decision but when its deemed safe it’s time for the owners and players to put selfishness and greed aside and come to a mutual agreement for the good of the country and the fans who have supported this great sport since it onset. Dont make it a political issue. Our country needs the distraction of our american pastime. And whatever has to happen to make that happen needs to be a priority.
I’d hate to say but if the players don’t concede some on either the length of schedule or a reduction of their pro-rated salaries, there’s not going to be a season this year. When a league stands to lose 40% of its revenue due to no fans in the stands, there is no chance the league (overall) can make money this season. I’m sure a few teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc..will be able to make some profits even after revenue sharing, the majority of teams stand to lose $100’s of millions if not billions of dollars collectively. Even though owners know it’s important to their fan base (and more importantly to them, team valuation) to play some baseball this year, they are not going to do so if they stand to lose this much money. IMO, the ball is in the players union’s court as to whether or not there is a 2020 season. Owners are willing to take large losses this year to play but they are not going to take 100% of the losses themselves. In other industries, there would be layoffs, travel restrictions or even office branch closings to try and mitigate said losses. In baseball, the option is to either take a salary reduction or just cancel the season. It’s a shame it has come to this but we should have a final answer by the end of the week. Fingers crossed both sides can concede and we’ll see some baseball this summer. If not, at least we’ll have the NBA & NHL to watch until football gets here!
nba has paid 75% of salaries already. that’s why they are not fighting. mlb, on the other hand, is proposing to pay 25% of salaries of the highest paid players.
For sake of argument, NBA played nearly 70% of their season.
What these owners and players dont realize is basebase is not a necessity. What would happen if baseball went away? Its not like all hospitals closed down, or all mechanics went away (you get my drift), sure we would miss it for a while but in a generation it would be a distant memory. It would be like the end of a TV series that ended. We would hate it but we would fill the void with another sport or activity, tv would replace it with something and all would move on. As a baseball fan for almost sixty years (reds) I would certainly hate to see it end, but what these participants needs to understand, is they are providing entertainment, skilled I grant you, but they are not absolutely necessary. So billionaire owners can you absorb losing your teams complete worth? Can a fantastic athlete like Mike Trout, or Mookie or a number of our heros make thirty million dollars a year at another job? So owners take a loss for one year( thats assuming they would really) you can surely afford it and players take one for the country (which needs you now) and play for a few million dollars this one year (thats more than a lot of your fans make in their lifetime) cause surely you can afford it and lets PLAY BALL!!!
50 games ?!? Owners conceding to corporate pressure like they always do. Owners don’t care how many fans walk away. They will conform to corporate pressure and do as they bid.
Open up the stadiums and concessions to fans and play the rest of season out in full. Pay the players their due. If you believe in the first outbreak then you will surely fall for the second one. Rest of us will enjoy taking our families to games while enjoying nations pastime.
I am getting really tired of this tug-of-war between the owners and the players. If they really valued the people and the fans they would have come to an agreement to give people a glimpse of hope and enjoyment. But alas no, everything has to fit perfectly to either the owners’ or the players’ agenda and no concession can be made. Who is the baseball for? The owners, or the players, or the fans?
I dont think people realize how ridiculous baseball without fans in the stands is going to be.
It isnt the TV attraction folks seem to think it is.
MAYBE football can get away with it but that’s doubtful.
Just cancel the season if you think we are all going to give each other this bogus virus by going to a dumb game.
So by “bogus virus”, you mean THAT virus literally entire world has been suffering from?
Yes, the one that every other country but us has moved on from, and the one with inflated numbers.
In Taiwan we had 6 dead. No lockdown. Many residents returned from China (1 million) and many students from infected areas in Europe and US returned to Taiwan. No outbreak.
40% of COVID deaths living in nursing homes. 90% of deaths over 50, most with other diseases.
The suffering came from lockdown measures to stop what was nothing more than a bad flu in healthy people under the age of 60
Taiwan’s response to the virus was excellent but not because nothing was done and certainly not because the virus isn’t dangerous.
Also, 25% of deaths in nursing homes, not 40%. Etc.
wild bill tetley
There’s that word again. Seeing lots of crowds on TV. Spiking? Meh. Stay Bogus, Blue.
Blue is an expert. His THEORIES are the right ones. Or maybe he’s trying to justify why he can’t ever come out his house again since he lives in Lala land
There’s that bogosity again. Where did I use the word spiking? Nowhere, so you are simply doubling down on bogus. Sorry you don’t like being called on it.
Might be best of the players just set up their own league .
The owners will use 2020 to put the screws to players for a long time. Those with long term contracts wont go for it but the younger players should break off
The MLB season was dead as of a week or two ago when the first obviously extreme proposal from owners was made. The reaction from the MLBPA and players themselves made it clear the owners low-balled so hard it was taken as an intentional insult rather than an attempt at negotiation. The MLBPA responded in kind with a ridiculous plan to play baseball into November.
It shouldn’t be too long before owners declare the season over and reach out to the government for a bailout threatening the collapse of MLB, yadda yadda. I’m assuming that’s the ownership strategy at this point.
“Owners contend that ommissioner Rob Manfred”
I know it’s a typo, but it is more appropriate of a title for him. Especially if the season is omitted.