There’s been plenty of trade speculation since right-handers Mike Clevinger and Zach Plesac were optioned in the wake of their health-and-safety protocol violations, and while it’s still doesn’t seem as though the club is motivated to trade either player, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale writes that Cleveland is “at least open to listening to offers” on Clevinger.
That’s a sentence that should be met with plenty of disclaimers, of course. Few players in MLB are ever truly “off limits” in today’s game. Front offices will typically listen to just about any offers. If anything, it’s more rare to hear that a player is completely untouchable than to hear that a team will listen. And ESPN’s Jeff Passan underscores that while it’s possible that a team will put together an offer too good for Cleveland to pass up, the team is also by no means shopping him. The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal cites execs with other clubs in reporting that the team is “more open” to moving Clevinger than Plesac, which is no surprise given Plesac’s larger slate of club control (five years versus two) and Clevinger’s climbing arbitration salary.
The roadblocks to a Clevinger trade are plentiful. First and foremost is the simple fact that Cleveland is a better team with him in its rotation, and at 17-11, the Indians are a clear postseason favorite. Beyond that, Clevinger’s stock is at a low point. In addition to the recent demotion, the righty also walked 10 batters in 16 2/3 frames in his three starts this season. Most would bet on a pitcher with his track record righting the ship and bouncing back, but the most recent impression he’s made wasn’t necessarily a strong one.
The Indians likely wouldn’t weaken their current depth and sell low on a highly coveted asset simply to make a disciplinary statement; they’d need some big league help in return — perhaps in the outfield — and need to feel that they’re receiving long-term value as well … all without taking on too much salary. As a reminder, Cleveland spent much of the offseason working to curb its payroll, dropping from a $119MM Opening Day in 2019 to a $97MM mark in 2020 (prior to prorating for the shortened season). A club already working to trim its bottom line can’t be expected to add expensive pieces in the wake of substantial revenue loss.
All that said, it’s also not unthinkable that a deal might come together. The emergence of Plesac and Aaron Civale gives Cleveland what looks to be yet another pair of useful arms to add to a perennially deep supply. Triston McKenzie’s impressive debut over the weekend can only have made them more bullish on their depth. As we’ve noted here recently (and as highlighted by both Passan and Rosenthal), the Indians’ outfield has been a disaster. If they can line up on a deal that nets a big league outfielder with comparable (or greater) team control along with some legitimate prospect talent, that could at least speculatively be a framework.
There’s some uncertainty regarding Clevinger’s service time at he moment, as the Indians could technically push his path to free agency back a season should he spend 20 days or more at the alternate site on his current optional assignment. That scenario, though, would require keeping Clevinger on option beyond the Aug. 31 trade deadline — he was optioned on Aug. 14 — and his representatives could well take umbrage and explore a grievance. Clevinger’s track record is excellent, with a 2.97 ERA, 10.2 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9 over 464 1/3 innings dating back to 2017. As it stands, he’s controllable through the 2022 season with a pair of arb raises still in the offing.
There’s no indication that Clevinger and/or Plesac are being dangled to other clubs, but given their recent demotions, it’s to be expected that other clubs will try to pry them away. Virtually every contender is in need of pitching help with injuries up throughout the league, and the idea of acquiring a player with multiple years of control remaining is far more appealing than giving up young talent simply to acquire a month’s worth of regular-season innings, which is all any club is guaranteed with a rental arm in 2020.
Probably needs to be an NL team, but who?
I’d assume Cleveland doesn’t want to help anyone they’re likely to face in the postseason, unless it was an insane package.
LAD don’t really need him and don’t like to overpay.
ATL probably wouldn’t like the price or the off field conduct coupled with lying in the meeting….
SD has the prospects, but what about the motivation?
Heck, as it stands the NL west is looking at fielding up to half the teams in the postseason at this rate. Hard to see a borderline East or Central contender stepping up..
The Braves will take either or both!
With what as an offer?
Center a deal around Pache and/or Riley maybe?
More likely a deal centeres around Pache and Ian.
Realistically Braves won’t pull the trigger.
Trade can’t be both Pache & Anderson. I see it more as Pache, Muller, and someone like Patrick Weigel or Bryse Wilson
@brave new world- they might want Waters instead of Pache. I definitely think the Braves will end up with Clevinger. But, The Padres got a great chance also.
Yeah, I highly doubt Cleveland could get Atlanta to include both of Cristian Pache and Ian Anderson. That’s a deal they could get Lance Lynn plus a decent bullpen arm like Jesse Chavez and a nice rental third baseman in Todd Frazier, maybe even more.
In my opinion, the Braves should outbid anyone to get Lance Lynn. He’s the type of piece that could make all the difference in the world for them come playoff-time.
Lol
I think our best bet would be trade him to someone who’s not a clear contender like the angels, or the Giants. They need pitching, but have enough outfield pieces to get us interested.
Not a Farhan kind of move though, not yet at least. I don’t see him making any kind of splashy moves until 2022.
atuck, agreed. Farhan will spend or trade prospects once the aging contracts are gone and our younger/new core is established. Hopefully that’s as early as 2022.
It would be cruel and unusual for the Angels to get him. One of the reasons he was traded from the Angels was for not living up to their grooming policies
I love how the main point in the article is Cleveland is not shopping either of their players, even quoting Jeff Passan saying “the team is by no means shopping him.” The article then ends with “there’s no indication that Clevinger and/or Plesac are being dangled to other clubs.”
Yet every comment below talks about possible trade scenarios or whether they should or shouldn’t be traded! That’s pretty funny
The article also said- Bob Nightengale writes that Cleveland is “at least open to listening to offers” on Clevinger, Ken Rosenthal cites execs with other clubs in reporting that the team is “more open” to moving Clevinger than Plesac, it’s possible that a team will put up an offer too good for Cleveland to pass up. Just because a player isn’t getting shopped doesn’t mean they can’t be traded.
Yes, I also read those words, this scenario is like Pete Carroll listening to offers on Russell Wilson. That’s just what you say. You don’t trade a SP with 30+ bWAR potential because of one isolated error. Which is why the story opens with and ends with the same message.
What’s the name of this site?
The Braves 100% need to pull the trigger and deal Pache or Waters plus others to Cleveland for Clevinger
Braves can winnow if they bring in a true ace but they’re so stubborn they’re gonna end up completely missing their shot.
Clevinger, Soroka, and Fried in 2021 would be a fantastic trio. Then hope someone picks up the slack to be a solid #4
Do you remember when they traded away their SS of the future (Yunel Escobar) when he became a clubhouse pariah?
I’d much rather see the braves and red sox line up.
Devers,Eovaldi,Pillar plus cash and a piece or two going for one of Waters/Pache, plus a couple young arms. Maybe add Perez for a couple more prospects because of the extra year cheap control.
Imo theres probably over 20 teams interested in these 2 guys depending on the price-
Cle wont have a problem finding suitors
Even teams out of the race this year like the Mets/Reds (Stroman/Bauer) last year I could see putting in bids.
Reds could definitely be surprise suitors. Could start the package with India and one of Lodolo/Greene. I don’t think the Reds would really want to move Senzel, but I also wouldn’t rule it out.
Perhaps…and this is just spit-balling here.. Bauer would give the Reds a bonus by signing a one year extension at his currect rate for 2021 if the Reds were to trade for his best buddy in baseball, Mike Clevinger?
The deal suggested, Senzel, is not out of the question.. Greene & Lodolo are fine young starting pitching prospects.. and Jose Israel Garcia would have significant interest to the Tribe’s future.. Some kind of package in and around this grouping.. with either/or Cleveland & Cincinnati adding a MiLB prospect to balance the deal?
If the Indians can manage to pry Waters away from Atl for Clev, I’d be ecstatic being an Indians fan.
Really wanna see an OF of Acuña, Pache & Waters. Don’t take that from me.
I love the idea of those 3 in the OF too…but if we could get 2+ years of Clevinger to pair with Soroka and Fried I would take it.
We won’t have Sororka for at least half of next year, making it all the more important.
I’d rather they have to find a strong side platoon OF to pair with Duvall than either have to find 2-3 SP or cross our fingers again with the minors.
If Pache, Shewmake, and a pitcher or 2 could get both I would happily part with Pache
I’m not too high on Pache. I just don’t believe in his bat, and that’s exactly what we need in Cleveland.
As a Braves fan, I’d trade Waters for Clevinger in a heartbeat. Pick one of Pache or Waters, one of Contreras or Langaliers, Camargo and any two pitching prospects not named Ian Anderson. This is exactly the move the Braves need to make.
I hope Atl is getting Plesac in that deal too!
Yea I think Waters or Pache plus 1 of the C and probably just 1 low Sp prospect 12-18 range would do the trick tbh-
A deal id be willing to do if Atl and way more inclined to do so in the next week to get that extra playoff run in
That’s too much
I mean is it though?
We can find an OF. They have TDA and Alex Jackson, so you only need one Catcher. Camargo has checked out, and I’m honestly beyond ready to ship him out because he wants to start. And if you have Clev, Freid and eventually Sork again; there is more than enough depth still in the minors to find 2 back end starters.
This is a move you go bold for.
That’s ridiculous overpay for someone that divisive in his own clubhouse.
He made a mistake. He’s human. Was it a bad one? Absolutely. Do you pass on talent without ever giving them another chance? No.
You can have a clubhouse full of upstanding citizens or you can get 25 of the most talented players and win a WS. The Braves have done the former for far too long, which is why they haven’t done the latter.
Idk Run you say that now but what about when he’s opening up a playoff series up in ATL and buzzing down hitters?
Dude is a stud, top 15 Sp today in the league and super cheap the next 2.5 yrs – Think if those recent events didnt happen the price would be closer to Waters/Anderson so something to think about
The Nl is weak sauce right now outside LAD- You thread water next year till Soroka comes back then have Soroka Fried Clevi headlining you guys are easily the 2nd best team in the NL and matchup well in the potential LAD/ATL series later
Im Not a Brave fan but Id assume at some point you have to say the time is Now-
That can be greatly progressed in the next week
A rotation of Clevinger, Soroka, Fried is a World Series calibre 1-2-3. Clevinger, though, has a pretty big injury history. That’s what concerns me the most. Pay a large price so he can ride pine. It’s difficult seeing him get MORE sturdy as he enters his 30’s this year.
I can anticipate the rebuttal to my position. There is no perfect pitcher to trade for and if Clevinger were putting up multiple full seasons, his cost would be just nasty.
That rebuttal does have some truth but I don’t think the package to land him will properly value that risk. If anyone thought Strasburg was a bad deal then you should be against this one for the same reason.
I honestly don’t care, but ATL has a long record of preserving clubhouse demeanor at great cost…and with Kakes and Snit at the helm, I don’t think that has changed. If they trade for him, then they feel the clubhouse can withstand it. Frankly, ATL needs multiple pieces and trading for Clev would be the final piece. He’s not enough.
You beat me to it. Lol. I would have said any pitcher is a risk, it’s the nature of the position. Humans aren’t meant to throw baseballs that way. It’s a violent, unnatural motion.
You have to gamble at a point, though, either in prospects or cash. The Braves don’t have that deep of pockets where I can ever see them extending 200m on another top flight arm. This appears to be the path.
You make a fair point about Strasburg, but that’s not a deal I wouldn’t do either. Three arms and some offense give you a shot in any playoff series.
To me the bonus is the multiple years of control on Clevinger. If it were less I’d be more hesitant. I say go for it, though!
That’s a good point too, DMC. The Braves rotation has more holes in it than a tennis racket. We need at least two starters and a third basemen. Hell, we probably need four starters because we can all see how they are just going down like flies right now. There’s no way we can trade for all that so why blow it up for a season like this?
Yes, all pitchers are risky. I guess I just don’t feel like he is worth it. If the Braves won the world series in 2021, I would look back to acknowledge the risk was worth it. Hard to argue with results, but then, what if he gets injured and doesn’t give us more than 20 starts next year and we don’t win a world series during his time with us?
My friend, I think the winner of our difference of opinion would simply depend on the results because this really seems like one of those “to close to call” moments. I would prefer not if the package would be what I think it would be, a minimum of two top 100 guys and a lottery ticket or two but the cost would shift my opinion as well.
Either way, I think we are participating in an academic exercise because I don’t think Clevinger is going anywhere.
Appalachian- it’s bizarre to me how many people have taken Clevinger’s (irresponsible and selfish) mistake and turned him into a monster. I’ve read he’s divisive in the clubhouse, he’s a pariah, a clubhouse cancer! I hope some of them rage dump him in MLB fantasy so I can pick him up for my team haha
I think the people who point to “he made a mistake, he’s human, forgive” line of thought miss the big picture on a 30 year old vet and not a 20 yr old rookie…
#1 – he broke quarantine. That’s a mistake, and straight up stupid when your battery mate had issues and your manager had issues. STEEEERIKE ONE!
#2 – when his co-conspirator and buddy in crime plesac was caught, he stood up in the team meeting and spoke against punishment without admitting his own culpability. STEEEERIKE TWO!
#3 – still knowing protocols and all the rest, and, after time to reflect, clevenger saw his partner in crime get sent home rather than travel with the team due to protocols and to protect the integrity of the season. Post miami et al. He then boarded an airplane to fly with the team. STEEEERIKE THREE!
what’s the rule on 3 strikes again?
You don’t have to trade Clevinger. But if you bring him back anytime soon, if at all this season, my guess is train comes off the rails.
He’s not quite 30 yet, but I understand you’re probably rounding. At any rate, by your logic in this argument, are we no longer allowed mistakes past a certain age? What is that number, in your view?
When you look at the world, people make mistakes at every age. That never changes. We’re all human. I’m not going to judge anyone more harshly based off their age.
I also don’t really see what he did as 3 separate incidents. It was one bad mistake that he went down the rabbit hole on.
Anyway, we’re probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If I were a GM, he’d be on my team.
I have him on my fantasy team – took him 3rd rd (1st SP for me) – and I’d trade him for a high-end RP. He’s taking up a roster spot with no clarity on the situation – and his stats before his great escape in Chi-town hasn’t been worth the stash, even in a deep league.
I’ve included both “pariah” and “divisive” in recent posts about him, but I’m trying to paint a picture how some clubhouses could view him where silly antics, that ordinarily could wouldn’t be much of distraction, could potentially alter a team’s season/momentum if their games are postponed in droves (i.e. MIA, STL, NYM).
Run
I totally get what you mean. So many talk about forgiveness/boys will be boys/ one mistake but they are overlooking the big picture. The Guy on June 30th ran his mouth off about “teammates” and trust outside off and between the lines and how they didn’t need to run to daddy. Then he sends out a tweet basically saying he’s a bad ass who rules don’t apply too, then he does the deed and its aftermath. Anyone who thinks some players in a clubhouse who acquires him won’t think ” who’s this selfish punk prima donna” are kidding themselves .
He’s a 29 yr old ” man” who hypocritically defied all what being a teammate and trust is all about.
If he had manned up and owned it, said he messed up and apologized
rather then his Sunday antics , but he didn’t so he deserves what he’s getting.
A club with a few salty vets who could pull him aside and give him a earful might work but even then the PR aspect and the constant distraction has to wear on an established clubhouse culture.
Have to think the Angels will come knocking with Goodwin included as MLB talent (he’s slumping a little bit right now, but he’s been solid all season for the most part). IDK what kind of prospect haul the Angels can manage to give up though.
Not trying to say Goodwin would be a great centerpiece going to Cleveland, but he could help satisfy the need for an MLB ready OF. Add in a few solid prospects (Marsh? Paris? Jones?) and maybe it’s a good start?
Then again, Angels are out of it already and might just revisit attempts at acquiring an ace until the offseason…
I think Paris, Goodwin and a flier arm like Aquino would probably get it done.
Goodwin and those 2 prospects are not getting Clevinger.
I think Halo did a good job on speculation there. I don’t expect we are going to see any real discount on Clevinger despite his antics. He’s just to valuable.
I actually think that is as close to a reasonable offer as I’ve see. I don’t see them making a deal, just think they will keep both til the offseason. Just my opinion.
That package wouldn’t get Clevinger on the last year of his contract. The Angels don’t have what it would take to get him because they aren’t willing to deal Adell. You don’t get a TOR SP with 2.5 yrs of cheap control for a package headed by Goodwin. That’s laughable.
Marsh Renigfro Goodwin and maybe a teen prospect would be my guess-
Something Ana should be willing to do in a snap-
Perhaps Cle would like to double down on OF and take Marsh/Abrams omit the rest, they really have options and can call the shots-
This today was the whistle blowing
Frazier and Andujar for Clevinger
The Indians would not have a place for both Andujar and Frazier to play. Andujar is a DH only so than Frazier and Framil Reyes would have to play the corners which would be a defensive nightmare. Besides, it would cost more than Frazier and Andujar to get Clevinger.
John, I think Cleveland should just trade Plutko and Greg Allen for Aaron Judge. Obviously the Yankees will have to add a prospect or 2. But it’s a fair deal for both sides
So true. Go get him Cherny!
Andujar’s value is extremely low right now. I thought he was the 18 ROTY since I view Japanese top league players professionals but given his current status, the Yankees would have to at least double the offer especially when they could face the Indians in October.
How about Judge for Clevinger?
There actually IS a world where that exists so I like your post. Unfortunately its just not this one-
Would be super cool though but I think Cle wants more arb years and a lower tab on this one than Judge Persky
That is actually a fair deal.
Judge can’t stay on the field though.
@justwhoami- Nah, want no part of Clevinger or Plesac at all. I think one of them goes to the Braves for a young outfielder and a pitcher. The Yankees would be wise to steer away from both of these guys for sure. Maybe, the Indians can keep them both where they belong. In Cleveland
I guess I’d play the card “keep them both where they belong. In Cleveland.” If the best offer you have are Frazier and Andújar bc you damn well know you don’t have anything the indians would want. How’s the view from the Ivory Tower?
@usafaaron- I wouldn’t even give the Tribe that. They can keep him or trade him somewhere else truthfully. I could care less. Don’t want my favorite team getting COVID-19 anyway. He is to big of a risk to himself and others
And if the Rays or Blue Jays wind up acquiring Plesac or Clevingerr or both you’re going to be complaining about why the Yankees didn’t try to stop them.
Rays easily have enough ammo to pick up both if they choose to do so.
They have an MLB ready outfielder in Arozarena, they have infield prospects like Brujan and Edwards, plus young arms like Baz and McClanahan to in include in any Plesac and Clevinger deal.
Yankees would be stupid to allow them to go to a divisional rival without offering their own deal, especially the Rays.
@Marvels MAGA Man- I would be fine if the Rays or BlueJays Acquired Cleveland Clevinger. Hearing the Indians want 2 young pitchers, 1 middle infielder, and an outfielder. So it will cost plenty to get him. Thinking he will be traded to the Braves or the Padres who are loaded with prospects by the deadline, if not he’ll stay in Cleveland.
2 Yankee Hall of Famers???? Sure you want to go that high???? (Might have to include Refsnyder).
Look folks, Mike C. is going to get a HUGE return. I don’t care that he was a naughty boy who broke some rules. #1 he just got caught, and #2 who knows how many other bad boys are out there.
Indians need an impact bat right now, and some talent for the future. They’ll get both for Clevenger.
Frazier andujar deivi and Albert Abreu probably closer
@bronxbombers- I really hope not. This guy is as dumb as a box of hammers. He needs a lawnmower for his hair. He looks like a chic out there. Pass, no thanks
I wish I could be as confident that the Braves won’t go after Clevinger or Plesac but they are pretty desperate for pitching. They are bullpening 2 out of 5 games and it hasn’t been pretty. The Braves have a clubhouse culture that is very committed to their values with players like Freeman and Markakis so maybe they can keep one of the two in line.
If we have to get one of them, I would prefer Plesac for a few reasons. I might be completely wrong, but my guess is Clevinger was the leader. Also, I doubt there would be going any appreciable discount for Clevinger so the package to get him would be ugly.
My best guess would be that the two don’t go anywhere.
Hahaha omg – thats rich, and how ironic! You comment on Clevinger’s intelligence by confusing the phrase he’s “dumb as a bag of hammers” with “he’s dumb as box of rocks.” You have to admit- that is rich, and really funny.
@bronxbombers- the Yankees got to keep Frazier anyway. Especially with Giancarlo being injured all the time. I say we hang on to Schmidty & Deivi. Let Clevinger & Plesac be the Indians problem. We don’t need a distraction in the clubhouse.
@Yank4life. Not to mention, Yankee fans have to be intrigued with how Frazier is playing right now. The kid would be on pace to have a 16 WAR season if this were a normal year. Obviously nobody keeps up that sort of pace but how do you take that out of your line up, right now? I think I might be a little to enthusiastic for Frazier because I have become somewhat of a fan of his but it seems reasonable to say that if he keeps going like this, albeit at a more normal pace, he is earning his spot on a very deep and talented line up.
No chance, Cle way too smart too bite on that chum
Is that statement to me? If it is, I wouldn’t think Frazier is enough to get Clevinger. I’m just acknowledging his increased value.
That’s the proposal I expected to see.
Where are all of the serious trade rumors?
Deadline in one week ?
Am I at the correct site?!!!
Teams might be waiting intill Monday to see where they are and that’s why Deadline at Midnight.
Since all trades for prospects will likely be limited to guys in the 60 man player pool, all the young players are the ones that aren’t realistic bait for a reliever with an expiring contract.
I don’t think this deadline will see all that much action. There’s a lot of challenges.
Clevenger for Jasson Dominguez, Anthony Volpe and Estevan Florial.
Cleveland will want part of deal to be a controllable MLB outfielder. I don’t see the Indians trading for an all prospect return.
Exactly hockeyjohn- if CLE trades Clevinger which I seriously doubt, it’s because they feel they have excess pitching and a need for a current middle of the order bat. No way they part with such a (proven) good SP for prospects. They have to capitalize this yr while Lindor is in the lineup
@bucketbrew35- Nah, Yankees are not trading any of those guys for Clevinger. Forget it. For 2 years of control that is all? smh
So, the #57 prospect in baseball with tremendous athletic traits, a guy who has spent 5 YEARS between A and rookie ball and has a 40 hit tool and a guy who hit .215 in rookie ball. For a pitcher who would have cost Lux and May last offseason? Sure. Why not.
Seriously, that offer is straight Dominguez for Clevinger. Those other 2 are absolutely worthless.
I agree with Hockeyjohn…this teams going for it the next 2 years folks, they are not taking projects but they are willing to deal from a position of strength
Lmao is that a joke? That would absolutely never happen
Plesac and Clevinger and Zimmer for Adell and Bundy
Put down the pipe.
Or pass it. Puff, puff pass. People don’t have good manners like they used to
No way that Cleveland will accept that offer.
What? lol Not a chance, if I’m the Indians brass and that’s the offer I laugh after I hang up.
No way Angels need Zimmer because have Trout.
I don’t think the Indians would be willing to let go of both (at least not in the same trade) as well as Zimmer, and giving up another good pitcher is the exact thing the Angels shouldn’t be doing
Adelle is a legitimate, blue chip trade asset if the Angels decided to use him in such a way. His 51 AB’s don’t take that away. So if the Angels want Clevinger I would assume the trade package starts there.
But Bundy doesn’t have the value you think he does. Similar to Adelle but in the the opposite direction, his 38 innings of ace like production doesn’t erase his years of mediocre to terrible performances. Nobody is going to take him and expect he will continue pitching like an ace. If he consistently produced like a no.3 after this year, I would be impressed. I don’t think YOU believe in him either or else you wouldn’t have thoughts of cashing in his short sample size.
Adelle is a start for Clevinger but you will have to give a bit more and I doubt Bundy is what the Indians would reach for so adding Plesac to that just seems silly. Zimmer doesn’t seem like he is worth a whole lot but that just makes this trade even worse.
What’s Cleveland looking for? Benintendi plus would make sense from a value perspective, the nature of the plus would be another question.
Yes but no way Red Sox need Clevenger but maybe Plesac.
Benintendi only has two years of control and has not hit since last year. That will not get any Indian pitcher.
Then send in Benny and Pillar and, a top ten team prospect for both clevinger and plesac.
Cleveland is NOT trading Clevinger for a package headlined by benny, whose value is at an all time low.
They’re definitely not adding plesac too by adding a 1 month rental career twilight OF and a prospect what would likely be unranked in Cleveland.
You want BOTH Clevinger and plesac?
Trade starts with devers. Add benny as a middle piece. Then you’re probably tossing in a class a pitcher or two. Even then you might be swapping out a class a guy for one of dalbec or casas.
I’m low on the make up of clevinger, but you’ve got to remember – while plesac was dumb to break quarrantine that’s all he did as all guy who actually is young enough to count as you’d all stupid. Not about to be 30 like clevinger, who also stood up and misled the whole team speaking for plesac before breaking protocol all drain by getting on the plane. So what plesac did was maybe 1/4 as bad as clevinger”s behavior.
Of the two, plesac is the easier to regain team trust and apologize, not like there haven’t been other guys making his same mistake this season.
@hockeyjohn. Your statement about Benintendi “has not hit since last year” is equivalent to 39 AB’s. Sounds a lot longer the way you say it.
I meant to say since half way through last season. I am trying to do too many things at one time.
LOL! I feel ya. Just looked at his splits. His last 100 AB’s or so have been pretty terrible.
this is just due diligence. doubt they trade him now with less leverage.
you shouldn’t covet
If I’m the Indians GM, here’s the offer I would make. Clevinger for Goodwin, Marsh, and a PTBNL. Goodwin has been a solid player for LAA, and Brandon Marsh would be a player who would help a minor league system with not many major league ready bats. The Los Angeles angels would get a good pitcher that they would need. If that would get LA to bite they could defiently throw in a depth piece, like Rodriguez, Plutko, Hentges, etc.
That is one of the better offers that I have seen made on here. I would think that the Indians may consider that if it was offered.
Scott, Arrieta (Philly eating 80%), Haesley for Clevenger. Gives the Indians a filer arm for spot starts this year with Philly eating a majority of the cash. A top shortstop prospect to replace Lindor and a serviceable young outfielder with upside.
i dont think Philly would give up Stott and Haseley just to save 20% of Arrieta’s salery and make an upgrade at a position that they are fairly set at.
So, Cleveinger and LIndor for Torres, Frazier and Andujar?
No way Torres is leaving New York, but Frazier and Andujar is an interesting package.
and what else? I like those two but that doesnt get Clev and Lindor and perhaps not even one of the two.
@emac22, we’re not trading Torres & Frazier. Just let Cleveland Clevinger go to the Angels or wherever. Braves can get him also. Yankees should definitely pass. No need for this guy.
It’s not often you’ll see a Jays fan agree with a Yanks fan but i’m totally with you on this one Yank4Life. Even though we have lost 3 SP this past week ,I want no part of Clevinger in a young jays clubhouse.
A club with some salty veterans might be worth having a look if the price is right.
@MarcoRock68- smart man, and well said. Thank you.
Here come the low ball offers for Clevinger and Plesac.
Cleveland is in a lose-lose situation.
They keep them down they get disgruntled cause cleveland is messing with their service time which also ruffles the feathers of the agents.
They call them up they get to deal with player reactions and media constantly asking players about them.
Either way Cleveland is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I disagree, ofc the recent events didnt help but pitching is in such demand around the league and Cle actually has it in spades to deal –
I actually think they still play on the top of the hill today with what they can and cant do in the next week- Thats the great luxury is that they dont need to do anything at all and can hang up the phone quite easily on any low-ball attempts-
If I was a Gm id be targeting Clev and Pleasac to some extent right now not running away- I think one gets dealt this week and if its Clevinger I think it will be a pretty darn good package coming back to Cle
I don’t think you are right about service manipulation. The “disciplinary action” was very much a player driven element. But I agree we are seeing plenty of offers that don’t make since or is just flat out not a good value/value trade.
Of the two, clevinger is the one who has a worse service time case – simply because he:
1) broke protocol after multiple teams were shut down,
2) likely lied/hid it (you know before the team meeting they had to ask who knew what),
3) spoke for and misled the whole team when speaking for plesac,
4) broke protocol again attending the team meeting,
5) broke protocol again getting on that plane.
When other players are really high risk, as is francona, and when a guy shows he can’t handle the protocols and won’t come clean when seeing how big a deal it is around plesac’s team meeting… you send him down for the safety of all. A simple suspension keeps him from being ready to contribute in the future be shutting him out.
Plesac only broke protocol once as other guys around the league have. Difference is, youth, small sample, and other depth. Not unusual for them to want to evaluate others, who have in turn performed adequately.
Pache, Newcomb & Shewmake for Clevinger & Mercado
I think a trade with the padres centered around abrams makes some sense. He would be your replacement for lindor. Doesn’t help you this year but he maybe ready as soon as next season. Which means cleveland could trade lindor in the off season or at next years deadline.
Right now Abrams is blocked by tatis and cronenworth.
Only problem is that the Padres are one of the few teams who are not in desperate need of Clevinger. And they LOVE Abrams.
True. Though adding a near ace level pitcher is tempting. I do love some cronenworth so abrams would most likely have to play the outfield. I think clevenger would slot in the 1 or 2 spot in the rotation right away.
Lamet
Clevenger
Paddack
Richards
Davies
Gore replaces richards next year. Patino replaces davies the year after.
Padres have been doing bullpen days for the 5th spot most of the year. They need a starter who can pitch deeper into games as well. The bullpen has been the biggest weak spot.
Think last year’s trade between the Padres, Reds, and Indians. Cleveland will want help now in the outfield, and help in the future. I doubt they will trade anyone for all prospects.
I agree hockeyjohn. While the Padres do have a lot of good young prospects, the needs just don’t line up. The Padres are currently short on OF, which is exactly what the Indians need. The Padres will not under any circumstances trade Grisham. While Will Myers is hitting great, the Indians don’t want anything to do with any $20 million per year contracts.
Another three way trade would be the only way that the Indians and Padres match up. You are very correct that the Indians would want nothing to do with Wil Myers.
Padres don’t need starting pitching. They need relievers.
And they’re not trading Abrams for a reliever.
Putting Plesac or Clevinger or any starter they’re using would be a waste of assets.
Cahill and Watson from SFG can be had without giving up much and fills needs in the pen. Both are rentals I believe. Ona, Lawson, and Ruiz should be enough to acquire both.
Nvm. For some reason thought Ona, Ruiz, and Lawson were part of the 60 man pool.
But Tucupita Marcano is and he’s ranked like 13th or 15th in the Padres system. Be a little bit of an overpay but for Gausman, Watson, snd Cahill you could make the case for going all in and fixing the pen knowing that you have Tatis Jr, Abrams, Arias, and Miller in the fold..
They can do it as a player to be named later as well.
Need probably not. They also don’t need a shortstop.
I agree they will never trade abrams for relievers. Though relief is their greatest need. Not a lot of great relief options out there either.
You can NEVER have enough starting pitching. Specially at clevengers level. I bet the dodgers even check into clev.
If the rumor about wanting two young pitchers, middle infielder and an outfielder is true.
Then trammel, arias, weathers or one of the many other young pitchers they have may fit better. That starts to feel like an over pay.
I do know this clevenger is really good and it will cost something good to get him.
Abrams is most likely moving to CF.
Pham is a FA after 2021 and Myers after 2022 if, and when, they decline his club option.
Grisham, Abrams, and Trammel are potentily the starting OF come 2023.
Defensively, they’d rank as one of the best if not the best come 2023.
The Brewers will regret trading Grisham. They probably already do.
Na Abrams will be moving to CF. this guy is a game changer no chance he goes he will debut at a young age as well
Could see the Jays jump into trading for Clevinger. Teoscar Hernández, Jordan Groshans and another teens prospect would start the conversation.
What are you smoking?
a clubhouse pariah with 2 yrs of control for …
1- 40+ hr guy-950 ops with 3 yrs control
2- Top 50 Prospect with major upside
3-other teen prospects?
That call would last all of 5 seconds – click.
Teoscar is not a .950 OPS guy over a full season by a large margain. He’s had a good start but any GM woulf be foolish to be this is who he is.
After his recall last Yr in June thru the end of the Yr he had an . 873 OPS this year thus far he has .993 . Will he keep at 950 likely not but he has turned a corner with his potential.
Oh yea and after the all star break he had a .939 OPS. So that’s 3.5 months of .950 Ops – Arm/Power/Speed -starting to take walks . Defense isn’t the hottest but the man had potential that he is now showing for an extended period.
Now what would you consider a wide margin do tell?
Teo has had 318 AB’s of elite batting when you combine this year and the second half of last year. Is that really enough consistency to proclaim him as a 950 OPS kind of player? That still sounds like the far end of a short sample size to me. He did have a good 2017 but that is unarguably a small sample size. Lot’s of players are really good for portions of a season.
Then there’s his glove. He has been almost perfectly neutral this year with 0 DRS and a 1.5 UZR but 2018 he looked like a man with cinder blocks for hands and feet.
When I look at him I see a bat that is anywhere between above average to elite with a glove between terrible to neutral. He looks like any combination of these things to me until he can demonstrate the ability to hit like that for a full season of at bats. Hell, players have gone a full season with that kind of production and we learn later that one season is not enough to conclude a player is elite.
I’m not saying he is in Trout/Bellinger/Yellich territory but the guy has shown the combination of power/speed/arm to make him a well above average player with 40+ home run power. He was recalled June 5th last yr so we are a month off a full season that makes a trend. How many players have finally put it together in the 27-28 yr old range? i can think of 3 off top of my head Jose/Edwin/Josh.
Furthermore stabilization rates for sample size per fangraghs.
Slg- 320Ab
OBP-460 Ab
318 AB can no longer be called a small sample size.
My original point being that Teoscar + Groshans+ Other prospects is an overpay for Clevinger even without the potential clubhouse friction./bad PR .
As well he’s had 392 Abs since his recall not 318. 290 last yr Post June 5th and 102 this year.
I guess that makes Fernando Tatis Jr. a regular .315/.400/1.000 60-Hr 30-SB player?
Wow! He must be with the entire minor league systems of the Dodgers and Rays combined!!
He’s had 452 career AB -projected over a 600 Ab season= .315/.383/.996
45 Hr- 29 SB . Whats so crazy about that? The guy is a star player.
read what i said above about stabilization rates in statistical analysis or is that too complex?
What difference does it make how many players you can recall that have figured out how to be a .950 OPS guy? Only a few? Of course. That is some very elite, rarefied air you are putting him in. You DO think of those truly elite players like Yelich.
Of course 318 AB’s are a small sample size. That isn’t even a complete season. If you said he had the potential to be the kind of player that does that, there wouldn’t be an argument. Also, your projections don’t matter to this conversation because fangraphs is projecting what his production would be if he continued at that rate.
I didn’t use Fangraph “projections” i used those numbers from their statistical analysis for stabilization of samples size.
It’s 392 AB not 318
( meaning Teo has enough at bats Since June 5th last yr to make it likely his break out is real. )
Do i think he will be year after year 950 ops for the next 10 yrs – heck no but i do think he will have a year or 2 in that range.
You do understand the concept of stabilization of sample size?
The projections were for Tatis over a 600 AB season based on his career AB thus far. Not for Teo.
Stabilization of sample size uses his stats and expands them to what they would be if he had completed the season at that rate. That is a projection.
Additionally, I did acknowledge his production from 2017. I separated the two because all this really shows is that he had to small sample sizes where he carried an elite bat that is separated by a significant amount of play that’s greater than both those periods combined. His longest period of consistently batting like a 950 guy was 318 AB’s.
If your sentence that you don’t believe he will consistently play as a 950 OPS kind of guy is true than our argument is semantic because we both believe the same thing. We’re just arguing over the use of terms, such as what IS a small sample size. Had you said Hernandez will probably have a few years in his career going forward where he produces around 950 OPS while other years putting up respectable numbers, nobody would be debating this issue with you.
What you have to realize MarkoRock68 is that any 392-AB stretch is not indicative of a player’s regular performance. It could be, and in Teoscar’s case likely is a career high, not the new normal. If it was then Aaron Judge would be a yearly .300/.420/1.100 60-HR player based on what he did in 2017. Tony Gwynn would have been a yearly .390/.450/1.000 player based on what he did in 1994. Neither one was or is that player with regularity. And none of the rest of us believe that Teoscar’s regular production will be what it currently is.
Stabilization of sample size does not take his historic number and project them . Sorry you are wrong on this. What it means how large of a sample size is needed before an outcome with a high degree of probability .
In baseball it varies depending on the Stat.
OPS is what? SLB + OBP correct?
This is the reason i gave the 2 numbers .
Slg- 320Ab
OBP-460 Ab
Follow so far?
Thus with the number of AB’s he’s had since his break out last year after he was called up- qualify as a sample size large enough to rule out this being a ” hot streak ” and rather is likely a true break out.
As this pertains to my original comment, with his age factored in ( 27 ) which is usually considered to be “prime” is it not?
Then in the 2 yrs 1 month remaining before Clevinger is a FA . Teo is very likely to be a 950 ops hitter. Could be 910 could be 970 but the average for those 352 games in the 950 range.
This isn’t some rookie out of the blue, he has the talent , has shown flashes just taken a while it put it all together as did guys like Jose/Edwin/Josh.
I would not trade a player in the middle of such a career breakout as Teo for a pitcher like Clev with the baggage and injury risk, let alone Teo + Groshans +….
Savvy?
Javia
Go read up on stabilization of sample size and how it pertains to baseball and predicting a players breakout. These are not “career” numbers they are” prime” years. You know a players prime?
Wow. You talk but you do not listen. In 2017 Aaron Judge was 25. He hit .284/.422/1.049 with 52-HR in 542-AB. That number of AB is enough to stabilize any sample number. If 392-AB is long enough to rule out a “hot streak”, then that should be his regular performance should it not? It’s not. They are relatively close, but they are also his career high. In the 2 full years after, he has hit 27-HR in each. NOT 50 plus! So maybe, just maybe, your prediction system isn’t foolproof?
Also, I think it is incredibly arrogant to call Hernandez a 40-HR guy when he has never once hit more than 26-HR in a year! I wouldn’t even call Judge or Stanton 40-HR hitters. They have both hit over 50, once. Aside from that they have never before or again hit over 40-HR. Judge in 3 years and Stanton in 10!
That was pretty informative, Javia. Think maybe I need to talk a little less and listen a little more myself. =)
What kind of numbers could Judge have put up if not for injury?
Let’s put a pin in it , remember this convo and revisit post 2022 season.
I’ll send you both $20 amazon cards if i’m wrong. 950 Ops over 2020/2021/2022 averaged 🙂
If they could stay healthy Stanton and Judge would be reg threats for 40 hr ..
I have read up on stabilization of sample size. And I know that 500-AB is enough to stabilize a player’s OBP, SLG, OPS, HR rate, K rate, Walk rate, Contact rate and Flyball/Groundball/Linedrive rates, among others. And yet baseball is full of players who have 1 or 2 years outside the norm that never repeat or become the norm.
You know what, how about we just leave it at this: Cleveland certainly does not value Hernandez anywhere as much as you do. So go ahead and keep him. They will not make the trade you suggest.
I hope they do keep him i don’t want him anywhere near the jays. I was shooting down the trade suggestions by some else as being too steep for Clev before you 2 hijacked my reply to someone else . I’m making a case that Teo is in the midst of a break out. Plain and simple. Might he he get hurt? sure. Might he falter sure . but he’s a guy entering his prime who has displayed high level talent on and off for 3 yrs and now the sample size is large enough to say he is experiencing a break out with a high degree of confidence . As i said lets revisit end of 2022 and ill totally own it if i’m not +-5% of my projection.
Agreed. And same.
How dare you… are you claiming a guy like Harper can have one really really great season and then default to merely lots of good for the rest of his career?
Trammel is another option from the padres. Im sure cleveland would want another guy or 2 as well. Maybe Trammel and arias, outfielder and a shortstop. Padres got trammel in the Bauer, reyes trade. This type of trade doesn’t seem to far off from that one.
Bauer was a headache and now clevenger is in some what of a similar spot.
I would hope Clev mgmt tunes out the noise and hangs on to Mike Clevinger. All of these old men criticizing a 29 year old phenom’s talents somewhat youthful decisions need to remember they were young once too.
And when did breaking quarantine & being young become an evil such as physical assault or theft. Tune out the noise. There are 29 other teams that would love to have a Mike Clevinger on their team.
You talk about him like he’s a 17 year old high school kid. He’s a grown man. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
If Clevenger is dealt, why not to Boston as CB’s first splash? I realize he’s building but I’ve said it before, it should be as a hybrid. You pick up and develop in part to build and in part to have available when the right deal comes a long. Sox can use the money they saved by not signing Brock Holt (tongue in cheek) to stay under the threshold this year. Seriously, a deal could be considered as long as they remain under the numbers this year. While others could give up more in any bidding war, will they?
I think the dirty little secret is that bloom really isn’t planning to try to win again in the next 2 seasons.
Too big a market not to do anything this off-season provided there’s a full season next year with fans, which is presently unknown. Clevinger made a fool of himself and risked the health of others but since he’ll get another chance, the Sox need pitching.
Take all the clubhouse aspects out of it for a minute and just look at the talent.
Clevinger has 2 yrs of control- and those arb yrs will not be dirt cheap. He’s a 4-5 War pitcher x 2 =8-10 War for the 2 yrs of control.
So any Team willing to give up young MLB calibre talent – 6 yrs control- even a 2 War player would give CLEV 12 War. I know it’s apples and oranges but the only teams that it even makes sense to give up really top talent for Clevinger who would be a team wanting a # 2 pitcher to be the final piece in making them WS favorites .
The Reds. Lindor and Clevinger for Hunter Greene, Anthony Desclafani, Philip Ervin and some other lower prospect.
Judge Small, that offer would not get you one of the Indians let alone both player. Desclafani is a rental and Ervin has little value. Please remember that both team’s needs must be met for any trade to happen.
HockeyJohn is right. You have Hunter Greene up there and he IS a very valuable prospect but the biggest problem with that is Cleveland wants major league ready players that will impact their team immediately, outfielders preferred. Greene hasn’t even pitched in AA yet.
The player they would ask for is Nick Senzel because he fills their need. This is assuming his injury is just the 10 day variety that he is already a few days through. But Senzel alone wouldnt get you Lindor OR Clevinger. He would be a start for one of them.
Most teams that could be fits for Clevinger don’t really line up in a trade. The Indians need major league ready outfield help; I’d always take more pitching, but a pitcher coming back as the primary piece defeats the point of trading Clevinger because it doesn’t really make you any better in the short term. Their infield is mostly set, and it would be risky to assume that a young bat at a different position could move to the outfield on such short notice.
The Dodgers have a deep system, but not really in areas the Indians need. Same with the Braves, and I’m not as high on Drew Waters as his prospect ranking because I have serious doubts about his plate discipline long-term.
The best fit I can think of is going back to the Angels in a deal that includes Brandon Marsh, but Marsh alone isn’t enough to do it and the Angels have a pretty thin system beyond him and Adell. Maybe a three-team deal could work, but at this time I don’t really know if that’s feasible.
Send him to Pittsburgh!
I think it’s the Braves then everybody else. They have 2 OF’s in the top 50 MLb prospects, and pitching prospects to make the deal go.
ATL Gets: Clevinger
CLE Gets: Drew Waters, Touki Toussaint, and Tre Harris. Or Pache, Shewmake, and Wilson.
Toussaint and Harris? No thank you!
I think if anyone expects Clevinger will have some kind of discount because of his antics, you will be sorely mistaken. I have never been fond of Clevinger. Before this year, he has had a difficult time staying on the mound but if you want him, it’s going to really cost you, especially this year.
I’m a Braves fan and so know their system best so if I guessed at what a package looks like, it would be either Pache or Waters with another top 100 guy from our system and then a lottery ticket or two. That’s a lot to pay for a pitcher that’s going to be riding the pine far to often.
some of these offers here are crazy. just because he broke the rules doesnt mean the Indians are just giving the guy away like free candy. you dont get a top handful pitcher in the game for scraps, projects, or castoffs.
Nor are they getting a King’s ransom like some think. The number of teams willing to give up high end talent for a guy with 2 yrs 1 Month are limited to true WS contenders. As another commented, teams that match up – wants/ needs and where they are in competitive cycle are limited.
I heard one person guess the Giants as a trade partner. Giants are better than I thought they’d be, but they sure aren’t going to be contenders before his deal is up. Anything they gave up for him would be wasted. Padres seem to be a popular guess, but the needs vs supplies don’t match. I’m guessing Braves.
Deivi Garcia, Frazier, and another prospect (Luis Gil/Michael King type) for Clevenger?
I think Dodgers should offer a trade based around Julio Urias. LAD get a rotation upgrade now, Cleveland gets back a young starter that’s also really good, less expensive, and has one additional year of control.
Eh, as a Dodger fan I don’t feel; that’s a trade that has to be made. Outside of his last start., Urias has looked good. Cleveland would also want someone in addition to Urias. That someone would be a player that can step in now. I don’t see a match in that regard. One month of pre-free agency Joc Pederson might not be acceptable. Matt Beaty is a possibility, though he figures to get increased playing time when Joc leaves as a free agent. No one else on the Dodgers’ Major League roster is expendable, even for a pitcher as good as Clevinger.
I mean that’s the idea, Urias has been really good. You swap three years of cheap + great for two years of really great. I agree that LAD would have to add more but think a guy from the back half of the top prospect list gets it done.
I’m thinking Cleveland would want a bat who can provide a lift now as well as Urias. Beaty will never be a star but is skilled enough to handle a larger role. The Dodgers can then add the type of prospect you suggest (and maybe get a low-minors prospect in return). Btw, my gut tells me that Urias will never become the pitcher Clevinger is now. That’s what’s tricky about trades: knowing when the time is right to surrender a player. Had Friedman not kept Verdugo out of the Machado trade, the Betts deal might not have happened.
I see clevinger and Lindor getting traded, but the question is will it be packaged deal or who will be the first domino to fall for the Indians, but the best trade partner is the dodgers, because they have the prospects and players to dish off and still be successful
CBS Sports reported today that the Yankees are discussing trades with the Indians, presumably about Clevinger. There’s too much smoke around Clevinger rumors for there not to be a fire. He is going to get traded, but the question is to whom?
General managers are always talking to one another. It’s part of their job. While the Yankees are likely talking to Cleveland, you can bet other teams are also doing this. Clevinger and Plesac are good pitchers and everyone is looking for quality starters. If the Indians trade one or both, they will do so after considering offers from quite a few teams. Should the Yankees want Clevinger, they will have to beat all those offers. The Yankees certainly don’t have the inside track.
I believe he gets traded, too. My guess is the Braves for Waters, Muller, and a mid-level prospect. Dark horse: the Cardinals offering Dylan Carson. He’s exactly the big bat that Indians are looking for, so him and maybe a little more could get it done, while giving the Cards a serious 1-2 punch in Flaherty and Clevinger.
Clevinger and DeShields or Zimmer to the A’s for Ramon Laureano and two top 25 prospects.
That would be the type of deal the Tribe is looking for.
I couldn’t see the A’s even considering trading Laureano. If they would, the Indians would probably jump on that.
Before his knucklehead incident you would have said the same thing about the Indians and Clevinger..
You want to trade for a top 30 starting pitcher with two plus years of control it’s going to hurt,you aren’t getting him for scraps and leftovers.
Take the Bauer deal as an example,the Indians got five plus years of control of a 37 home run hitting DH/OF and some decent prospects for one plus seasons of Bauer.By that yard stick this deal is a little light going the Tribe’s way.
Clevenger to the phillies for kingery and eflin
2 times 0 still equals 0 Brown Trout.
Cleveland gets Kyle Lewis and George Kirby.
Seattle gets Zach Plesac and Aaron Bracho.
That’s actually interesting. If Lewis can continue to hit like this (small sample size so far), he’s exactly the kind of player Cleveland is looking for. If I’m Cleveland, I say yes. Not sure if I do it as Seattle, but pitching is always highly valued and he has a slightly longer track record than Lewis.
Plesac for Teoscar Hernandez. Straight up.
I’ll do Clevlenger and Lindor for Frazier Garcia Andujar
Yankee fan?
Cleveland is more likely to keep Clevinger down at the Alt site for another 8 days (where they gain an extra year of control) than to trade him. Plesac has far too much team control to seriously consider trading him. Especially since being optioned, he won’t become Super 2 eligible.
Someone has to seriously blow their socks off for Cleveland to deal either. That offer will need to include a capable MLB ready OF with at least one other highly regarded prospect.
Highly doubt Plesac is traded. He’s too cheap and talented for the Indians to consider it. Clevinger is about to get significantly more expensive, though, and they’ve been trading guys near the end of their deals so they can remain competitive while still being cheap. It’s actually a brilliant strategy, save that they’re very unlikely to ever be favorites.
I would trade Pete Alonso and Rosario for Lindor and Clevinger
Mediocre first basemen defender and a terrible SS for two stars yeah right.
What does defense at first base have to do with anything? It’s the least important defensive position (hard to make much of an impact unless you’re reeeaaally bad or Keith Hernandez) and Pete’s not too bad a defender anyhow.
I think the Indians are likely to trade Clevinger. It fits with their MO. They trade Kluber not just because of the injury, but because they didn’t want to pay him. They trade Bauer because they didn’t want to pay him. It seems a foregone conclusion that Lindor will be dealt at some point, because he, too, has become a bit expensive for their tastes. Cleveland will get back enough pitching prospects, which they develop as well as anybody, to maintain their competitiveness in the AL Central, and will try to strike gold on the OF or other prospects they receive. With Civale coming into his own, they can lose Clevinger and still make the playoffs. They’d have Bieber, Plesac, Civale, Carrasco. The first three would compare favorably with a lot of other rotations’ top 3.
My guess is he goes to the Braves for Waters (don’t see the Braves letting Pache go), Wilson (or Muller if they’d rather get a lefty into that rotation), and maybe a mid-level or lottery ticket guy. Braves could use a rotation upgrade and look to have an OF logjam. Indians are the opposite. Finding some sort of deal would make a lot of sense for both.
A Toronto sports writer suggested Lourdes Gurriel Jr. and Anthony Kay for Clevinger. Lourdes has 4.5 years remaining of cheap team control, and his 1.8 fWAR in 343 PAs in 2019 extrapolates to a ~3 fWAR OF. Kay is mlb-ready and projects to be a solid (if unspectacular) middle-of-rotation pitcher. Not a Clevinger, but he could step right into the Cleveland rotation. I wonder if Cleveland could be tempted?
Doubt it. 3-WAR players are decent, but not enough to put a team over the hump. Clevinger is, especially when rotations shrink to 4 in the playoffs.
Gurriel should be the only OF not touched. Teoscar should be the guy to go. They’d have to add another piece to balance it out.
Seriously…..why don’t the Tribe include an OF in any trade talks. What can they possibly do with all of those 4th OF types? Are they going to acquire a guy like Waters or Marsh and platoon them too?
All of these guys would be decent options for a team that needs a bench guy. They aren’t everyday starters. I’m sick of this….it’s disgusting!
– Zimmer
– Naquin
– Allen
– Luplow
– DeShields
– Mercado
I do think that Domingo should get everyday AB’s….bad average but has power and has actually been making good contact.
Also….
Why not give Jake Bauers a shot? How much worse can he be? These guys are hitting a combined .150 if that! At least Bauers hit .220 with decent pop. Throw him in LF and let him learn more on the job. I’m so frustrated….don’t you think the front office and Doland are as well?
Padres trade Trammell/Weathers/Olivares/Naylor for Clevinger.
Clev gets a top lefty prospect still two years away and immediate OF help.All young,cheap and controllable.
Weathers was a borderline top 100 prospect before this year. He was a LHP with plus control, a plus changeup and plus pitchabiliy. Now just in the last year he has increased his velocity by 4 mph. From regularly 90-93 to 94-97. I doubt he is going to be traded.
The Clevenger for Judge idea is getting dismissed too easily here. Clevenger is in the Cy Young ether; Judge is in the MVP ether. Both players have warts, but both fill immediate/long term needs.
Clevenger belongs in the Big Apple; he’d be a mega celebrity; Suzzy W. would have him in the sack in 2 days. There’s nothing to dislike about Judge, but the frequent trips to the IL seriously compromise his value. And he’s middle-America all the way.
I for one think it’s a perfect trade. Some of these proposals are from left field; Indians are NOT trading Clevenger for a bunch of suspects, even if they come from SD. They’re too smart for that. And the “character issues” may or may not be true. And if they are, who cares; this ain’t choir boy practice. The list of players who were “trouble” while they were performing to a high level is long, long and long.
I think the Pads will end up with Clevenger. I could see the Angels offering a package centered around Marsh. Maybe the Dodgers also if they dangle Urias and Ruiz.
Absolutely no chance urias is delt for injury prone pitcher. It’s not much of upgrade pure non sense.
Honestly from a matching up perspective the only teams that make sense are Braves, padres and angels. Dodgers aren’t dealing urias.
Padres have plenty of talent on roster and minors to entice cleveland. Angels can offer adel or marsh + and Braves can offer some form of Pache/waters +