DEC. 10: Infielder Leo Rivas is the PTBNL headed to the Reds, the Angels announced. The 23-year-old Rivas ranked as the Angels’ 25th-best prospect at MLB.com, which writes that the switch hitter has consistently “shown the ability to get on base, run and defend” throughout his minor league career. He owns a .252/.380/.362 line with 87 stolen bases in 1728 plate appearances in the minors. Rivas reached the High-A level in 2019. The Angels, meanwhile, are getting $900K in cash, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com tweets.
DEC. 7: In an out-of-the-blue move, the Angels have acquired closer Raisel Iglesias and cash from the Reds in exchange for right-hander Noe Ramirez and a player to be named later, per announcements from both teams.
It’s the latest indication that the Reds are looking to cut costs. In addition to their surprising decision to non-tender Archie Bradley last week, the Reds have also reportedly been open to moving right-hander Sonny Gray, who is owed two years and $20MM on his contract. Iglesias is signed for $9.125MM this coming season and will be a free agent following the 2021 season.
This is the second notable trade for the Angels under new general manager Perry Minasian, who last week acquired shortstop Jose Iglesias from the Orioles in exchange for a pair of minor league pitchers. Iglesias will give the Halos a more clearly defined closing option after non-tendering a slate of five relievers, including Hansel Robles and Keynan Middleton, last Tuesday.
Iglesias, 31 in January, has been the Reds’ primary closer for the past four seasons. He had something of a down year in 2019 but saw both his velocity and his bottom-line results rebound in 2020. This past season, Iglesias tallied 23 innings of 2.74 ERA ball with a terrific 31-to-5 K/BB ratio, eight saves and a 41.5 percent grounder rate. Since taking over the ninth inning following countryman Aroldis Chapman’s trade to the Yankees, Iglesias has been highly effective, pitching to a combined 2.95 ERA with 100 saves, 11.0 K/9, 3.0 BB/9, 1.13 HR/9 and a 37.5 percent ground-ball rate.
A return of Ramirez and a PTBNL suggests that from the Reds’ vantage point, this move was primarily a means of jettisoning Iglesias’ salary. Ramirez is two weeks older than Iglesias with a fraction of the track record. He’s pitched to a respectable 3.76 ERA over the past two seasons but done so with more questionable peripherals and primarily in low-leverage spots. Ramirez’s fastball sat at a career-low 88.8 mph in 2020 as his K/9 mark dropped to a career-low 6.0.
To his credit, Ramirez did have a nice year in 2019, when he gave the Angels 67 2/3 innings of 3.99 ERA and 3.72 FIP ball with averages of 10.5 K/9 and 2.7 BB/9. Statcast rated him in the 75th percentile or better in terms of average exit velocity, hard-hit rate, barrel rate, curveball spin and overall swinging-strike rate. It was a solid season, to be sure, but even that career-best year pales in comparison to the best efforts put forth by Iglesias.
Perhaps the Reds are hopeful that Ramirez can regain that form, and it’s certainly worth pointing out that he’s controllable through the 2023 season. However, Ramirez looked like a non-tender candidate just one week ago, and trading an established closer of Iglesias’ stature for a low-leverage reliever in need of a rebound looks like little more than a salary dump. If the PTBNL involved in the deal proves to unexpectedly be a prospect of note, the swap might look better, but the Reds have now jettisoned Iglesias and Bradley from an already problematic bullpen.
With Iglesias out of the picture, the Reds’ projected payroll drops from closer to $130MM to a bit more than $120MM. Lefty Amir Garrett and righty Lucas Sims are the in-house favorites to assume some of Iglesias’ high-leverage spots, particularly with Michael Lorenzen expected to move into the starting rotation. The Reds could still add some arms from outside the organization, but based on their activity to this point in the winter, it doesn’t seem likely that any additions will be especially high-profile in nature.
Pretty solid move by the angels. Didnt give up much
This is why the Reds rebuild was a disaster. They jumped the gun and decided they were contenders way too early. They gave up too much for what amounted to 1 season of Trevor Bauer since they weren’t going to contend in 2019 anyway. Then they way overpaid for Castellanos and Moose. Those 2 contracts along with Votto are keeping the Reds screwed in terms of payroll. They basically built a team that had to win it all in 2020. The end result was the Reds barely making the playoffs due to COVID related playoff expansion and then promptly getting swept. This team was not truly ready to contend in 2020. They were bad in 2019. They should have waited until their young core was getting them to the playoffs and then used the free agent market to add the finishing pieces to win it all for them. Instead they just decided they wanted the rebuild to be over and spent money like it was. The idea that the 2020 Reds were gonna win it all was laughable. Now they aren’t gonna be able to get rid of those Castellanos/Moose contracts because they are underwater so they are stuck trading away younger players to save cash. They are going to lose Bauer on top of everything. The rebuild is over and they are going to be worse next season then they were in 2020 when they were barely over .500. This is exactly how not to rebuild a team.
The Moustakas move is, and likely always will be, the most head-scratching decision here. Signing someone for their age 31-34 seasons to play mainly 2nd when said player had less than 50 appearances at the position prior to 2020, makes little sense.
I do understand the notion of acquiring the best players possible when given the opportunity, but even then, it doesn’t justify that signing.
IJLB – its funny that the reds signing Moose to that deal is (already) so bad, considering so many on here (and other sites) were roasting the brewers for not giving him a similar deal to keep him.
I said at the time it was a bad idea to give that much money over 4 years to him. He’s not a bad player by any means, but not worth 4/$64, especially for a small market team like Milwaukee.
Moose isn’t even that great of a player. Highly overrated. He’s streaky. Reminds me of Mitch Moreland. Solid but never the best guy on the field.
Not to mention all those who were roasting the Braves for not signing Moose AND Castellanos. They just keep hating on AA for not blowing up the rebuild, but I am so glad he isn’t weighing the Braves down with BJ Upton and Dan Uggla type of contracts.
That’s what all mid market teams should do. Don’t sign free agents to anything more than a year until the gm proves he can draft well enough to win. If more teams operated like this they would win and stay competitive longer. But I’m realistic and know how to manage and operate within a budget. I’ll wait for the mouth breathers to comment how the owner is cheap and if they just signed every free agent they would win.
Not really, the problem is votto , not castellano or mouse
The problem is all three. You are right in the sense that the Votto contract is clearly the worst of all of them but he was already signed to that mega-deal before last season. They shouldn’t have made matters worse buy spending another $128 million on guys like Castellanos and Moose. If they had just waited and kept some of the prospects they traded away for Bauer they would have more money to spend and could have spent it at a much more strategically appropriate time. They should have done what the Braves did. The Braves waited until the young core they drafted a traded for was good enough to win the division before they started signing big players. It seems like the peak of this Reds rebuild is going to be last season as it looks they are only getting worse now. Barely making the playoffs and getting swept out of the first round is a terrible peak for a rebuild. Fans expect serious world championship contention for several years after each rebuild and they should. Nobody wants to put up with multiple years of a bad team when the light at the end of the tunnel is 1 lame first round exit wild card playoff appearance followed by several more bad years.
Votto signed a team friendlier deal and never reached free agency. It was essentially a 10 yr deal at $22.5 deal – he provide 2 ~8 WAR seasons which is MVP level. Sure he’s not going to give MVP level anymore, but seems like it was worth it for what he provided at the front end.
Anytime I read someone say that the Votto deal is bad, it tells me that they don’t understand baseball economics. The overall value the Reds have gotten out of that deal is quite good. No long term deal ever looks good on a year to year basis at the end. Mike Trout’s last years on his extension will not be worth what he’s making. It’s just how it works.
You’re mainly right, but counterpoint: The Cardinals’ deal with Pujols
The problem is not the guy (Votto) who has led the NL in on-base percentage 7 times in his career at a steal of $20M per year. His talents were wasted on teams that couldn’t compete. Even in 2020, Votto had the third best OBP, followed by Moustakas. And Castellanos was 2nd on the team in home runs and RBI. None of these players were signed significantly above market last year for their historical or projected performance. Yall are missing the point lol
Thank you for pointing that out. Players like Trout could sign $50m 1-year deals every year, but they make concessions for guaranteed money for the backend of their careers. The teams know that, and these deals allow them to spread the contract over a 10 year period, which is preferable to a 5 year 250m contract that would diminish the rest of the team during the peak of the star player’s career. It’s smart accounting on both ends. You can’t just judge it based on a player’s obvious eventual decline when it happens.
This.
The Castellanos signing was the most idiotic with the Moustakas deal right behind. I wonder if MLB GMs will ever have brains larger than a mosquito.
The Reds went for it and failed. If you’re a Reds fan you can’t be upset with the team; you should be proud that your team made an attempt.
What they’re doing right now is the right thing to do, cutting salary where they can. It doesn’t mean they won’t be competitive next year. Reallocation of resources to address areas of need is a good thing. Heck, Reds could be better next year!
Votto, Mouse and Castellanos are all sunk costs. Reds may as well sell off some moveable pieces, save some money but try and improve the team at the same time. They can do it. The NL Central is up in the air so there’s opportunity to keep winning.
If you’re a Reds fan you can’t be upset with the team; you should be proud that your team made an attempt.
————————————————————
Not a big fan of ‘yeah, it was a really bad move, but we get credit for making such a bad move’.
Yes, you can be upset with a team going for it, the wrong way. For a smaller market team this blueprint was a disaster. It never made sense and had zero chance to be sustainable. In a division that bad you can build a team that’s good for more than a year.
Uh, @bovinecrab.
Obviously, they were unprepared for a season ruined due to a pandemic. Who wasn’t? The Reds were absolutely a viable contender in the NL Central. It wasn’t the most seemly of rosters? But it certainly was competitive.
Personally, I read this as *much* more about Covid than I do as a “failed” rebuild.
Ya know?
The Reds were competitive for all of the final two weeks of the season. Prior to that, they didn’t spend a single game above .500 except for Opening Day. Who knows how the rest of the 102 games would’ve played out.
Well…I never claimed they were some type of juggernaut, or whatever. But in comparison to the other NL Central teams I absolutely do think they compiled a competitive ball club.
Part of that certainly *was* due to the competition?
However lots of fans, MLB writers, etc viewed them as viable contender in their respective division.
Also, as you note who knows how the other 102 games would have played out. Maybe that last stretch provided more of an insight as to whom they really were.
Again, I just don’t really see this as an indictment against their rebuilding efforts. It’s really gotta suck for Reds fans, though.
I see your point, Bucky but here’s the issue. The pandemic didn’t hurt the Reds. It HELPED them. If it were a full 162 game season the there would be no expanded playoffs. The Reds were the 7th seed in a sport that usually only allows 4 seeds. Not only would the Reds have missed the playoffs without the pandemic but there would likely be multiple teams in front of them that missed the playoffs as well. This is a team that went on a slightly warm streak to finish 2 games above .500. Then they got swept in a 3 game series. They actually finished with a combined losing record in a season that gifted them a playoff spot due to a pandemic. I’m all for teams spending money to make themselves better. I think everyone is for the most part. The issue with the Reds is WHEN they decided to spend the money and WHO they decided to spend the money on. If a good team spends $64 million on a $64 million player they deserve credit. If a bad team spends $64 million on a $20 million player and blows up their entire rebuild to do it… well that’s just stupid.
No dog in the fight, but is “being competitive in the central” really justification to end your rebuild, and pull off multiple high cost trades?
Remember it’s not just Bauer, they gave the Dodgers Josiah Gray and Jeter Downs just a year prior for big name former all stars, past their prime
I guess my point is, they were competitive bc the central was bad moreso than they were good. It’s one thing to go for a division, it’s another to halt and backtrack a rebuild already in progress
Yeah, there’s a lot of validity in that.
I guess it depends upon the importance one attaches to making the playoffs. They were never going to be a favorite for the NL pennant, or whatever. Yet they did assemble a starting rotation that certainly could have contributed to an actual postseason run.
I’d wager there is a measure of regret right now, however.
I just see it all as extremely poor timing all around for them. I like when teams take a shot. Something a lot of fans never seem to acknowledge is just how many rebuilds *don’t* actually work out.
Bovine – where do I start? You have no idea whether the pandemic helped or hurt the Reds or any other team for that matter. Had there been a full season, they could’ve won the division or a normal wild card or yes they may have missed the playoffs: we’ll never know. As for your “slightly warm streak”, they won 11 of their last 14 games. Math isn’t your strong suit. Case in point: if the Reds were two games over 500 in the regular season and 0-2 in the playoffs, they didn’t have a “combined losing season” as you claim. If you want to claim that Moose wasn’t worth 4/$64, ok maybe that was an overpay (TBD). But the rest of your claims are trash.
Agree they “phillied” themselves…..however as a bucco fan, I’m jealous of them at least going for it. I don’t know what that looks like, cause I’ve never seen it…..sigh
Great for Angels fans bad news for Reds fans.
The Reds owed them for Cozart!
This!!!!!
No way. $6 million for a guy who lost it 2 years ago. Great deal for the Reds.
We have cornered the market on former Reds with the last name Iglesias.
Iglesias squared
Solid move for the Angels ? Wait till your “ closer” is called upon to actually close a game! This guy is terrible. Blood pressure meds in Anaheim are now going to sky rocket ! This guy has some wins… you know why ? Because he’s blows Saves and the Reds have to come back in the bottom of the 9th to win … if they are going to put him as a mop up guys or inning eater , fine but don’t expect him to close … Trout may get whiplash …
…For a marginally good middle reliever in Noe Ramirez.
As for blown saves, Iglesias stats show he had 16 in the last 6 seasons TOTAL. The Angels had 14 blown saves LAST SEASON, in 60 games.
besides, angels offense would give him 5 runs to mess with.
Uh… if it’s 5 runs then it wouldn’t be a save. As I said … if they are bringing him in to save games … you will be terribly disappointed. I never have understood this guy. He clearly does not have a closer mentality. If he comes in for a non save situation … he’s lights out. Put he is very shaken otherwise. You will see when your up 8-5 and here he comes in the 9th …. he may get the save sometimes but the final score will be 8-7 with the tying run on 3rd with trout catching the last out with his back to the wall or … he will blow the save. If the Angels traded for him to be the closer then they are seriously not trying to win.
Iglesias has a 2.49 ERA in save situations and a 0.73 ERA in savevs. In NON-save situations he has a 3.26 ERA
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=iglesra01&year=Career&t=p#outco_extra::none
He is one of the best closers in baseball. Great trade by Perry.
I think it was a very good trade for the Angels, too @Koamalu. (Hey, where are all the “but can he pitch” guys now? Because, yes! He can!)
Curious though.
What are/is “savevs”? If you get this, thanks in advance.
LOL. Supposed to be saves VS non-saves. Old fingers on a small phone screen.
Lifetime 106 saves in 122 opportunities=87%
Fair enough & no problem.
I mean…here I was thinking this was a metric I was unfamiliar with lol!
Man.
Some days I’m just not the fastest boat in the fleet. Thanks for getting back to me though, man.
I’ve followed the Reds my whole life… Iglesias is not the lock down closer they think they are getting. He is wild in the strike zone and can just completely implode. Plus the Reds basically stopped using him in non save situations because he was terrible. When he is on he’s electric but just be prepared to not have full faith in the guy. I’d still like to have him, just saying he’s not as lights out as people may believe.
I do like a well crafted & accurate rebuttal though, @5toolMVP.
Trust me, we went through much worse with Hansel Robles, despite what his numbers might look like. We are also very confident in our pitching coach Mickey Callaway working with the pitchers we are getting.
As another 50 year fan Goetta, you are right on point. He’s an adventure every time out and awful in non-save situations. Merely an above average closer (at best).
So what Reds closer wasn’t an adventure every time out?
Fans think a closers are automatic. They are not. They allow base-runners and they blow saves.
The Angel fans felt the same way about K-Rod and Percival.
Looking at Iglesias. In 2018, he came into the game with a lead 34 times, the Reds won 33 of those games. In 2017 30 times, the Reds won 28 of those games. In 2020 12 times, the Reds won 10 times
The biggest obstacle closers have is unrealistic expectations.
Even looking at 2019. He came into the game with a lead 43 times, the Reds won 38 of those games.
And that was a bad year.
Koamalu- I believe you’re right in that Iglesias is a better RP than letme… is suggesting but one of the best closers in MLB? That’s a stretch, over the past 5 years I’ve had him twice on MLB fantasy teams. ESPN and Yahoo teams- anyone else who had him on their teams will tell you: he will drive you crazy.
He goes thru stretches where he resembles an elite closer then follows that with 4-5 consecutive blown saves. Just when you think he’s about to get demoted he saves his job with 2-3 weeks of clean saves. He absolutely wrecked my ERA and Whip in both the 2015 and 2019 seasons.
How much of his volatility is the hitter-friendly band-box that is the GABP? I’m not sure….but no doubt he will feel more comfortable in the big A. Good trade for the Angels though, he is definitely an upgrade over anything they’ve had for years- their fan base can tell you all about inconsistent closers.
106 career saves and 16 career blown saves so that’s 87% save rate. I wouldn’t consider that horrible.
FYI – His last FULL season 2019… He had 12 (TWELVE!!) losses and a 4.16 ERA. One of the other posters nailed it he said he can be be absolutely electric at times. But he’s also wildly inconsistent and can implode especially in NON save situations when the game is typically on the line many other times as well
FYI – His last FULL season 2019… He had 12 (TWELVE!!) losses and a 4.16 ERA. One of the other posters nailed it he said he can be be absolutely electric at times. But he’s also wildly inconsistent and can implode especially in NON save situations when the game is typically on the line many other times as well…
In other news, after trading for Jose and Raisel, the Angels have announced that Julio Iglesias will sing the National anthem at all home games in 2021.
Perry off to quiet the start holy cow!
shhhh…
lmao Noe Ramirez
The PTBNL must be decent because I don’t see how this make much sense for the Reds, especially if they’re sending cash to Anaheim.
It’s a salary dump, they’re trading a guy who makes $9M+ for a guy who’s going to make like $1M.
It’s just like with Archie Bradley, the move isn’t about fielding the best team it’s about reducing salary obligations.
Oh god so 5/5 teams in the NL Central look like their number one priority this offseason isn’t going to be to win. Pathetic.
That describes most teams this year. It’s gonna be really weird. If you have an ultra wealthy owner willing to take advantage of other teams by going into the red to win, you could have a really good off-season.
That’s the dream of Met fans after suffering under the penny pinching moron-led Wilpon ownership group. The Mets don’t need to sign every FA, but they need to leverage teams cutting payroll. Raisel would have been a good option. The Angels have bigger issues, but it was a nice deal by them.
So true, but its why my Jays should finally pony up and spend. Through FA’s and trades we have a chance to really get some impact players to help the rotation and the lineup. I bet we will see a bunch of the FA’s be jobless until spring training or early season until teams figure out what the actually need and are willing to spend.
@JD, you’re right. The NL Central seems to hurting, in a collective sense, the most of all divisions in MLB. Whoever wins the division next year, and goes to the postseason, is gonna get blown out in the first round of the div. series.
An article on The Atlantic pointed out that both Central divisions are hurting this year. They combined to non tender almost as many players as the other 4 divisions combined with about as much, if not more, total payroll cut. And that’s on top of every decent sized option being declined.
No revenue sharing last year really hurt the smaller TV markets. Clubs that needed gate money got killed, and those are primarily in the Central divisions.
@Halos, I didn’t realize the AL central was so bad too. Total bummer. It may take multiple………many?……. years for these teams to recover
The Central’s Teams went 0-7 in the playoffs. They are that bad.
Welcome to flyover country in a pandemic.
I don’t think so. Raisel is better but not by a whole lot. Raisel has a year less of control and is owed quite a bit of money. The Value between Noe and Raisel are quite close when taking into account salary and years of control
You could field a team full of guys making the league minimum who would win 55 games and be more valuable than the Dodgers when you take into account their salaries.
True. That is the problem with the silly “marginal value” calculation to evaluate trades. It’s actually just a measurement of opportunity cost: It’s about theoretically freeing up salary to spend on someone else, in addition to what you get back in the trade. That’s the whole basis for it. But if you’re NOT going to spend that money on someone else, because of cash flow issues or because there’s no one to acquire that fits what you need, it’s a pointless exercise.
I agree with both of your statements, but not even taking into account salaries and years of control, there value in production isn’t far off. It would have been a better move to spend the difference in salaries, roughly 7 million on the free agent market. Instead of replacing Noe, now you are able to replace Hansel or Keynan, since the angels still need to replace them.
Depends on how much cash the Angels are getting from the Reds. They can still resign Robles but the difference between the two salaries isn’t great enough to prohibit the Angels from spending on bullpen pieces.
that’s not even close… I understand Noe posted a solid 3.00 ERA in 2020 but overall he’s no where near the level of Iglesias. Noe Ramirez is a passable middle reliever at best and Iglesias is a top 10 Closer — there’s a VERY significant gap between the two players. And obviously the Angels feel that way too because otherwise they wouldn’t be willing to deal a guy making $1M for one making $9+ and include an additional asset (PTBNL)
Jeff – definitely a salary dump….Noe Ramirez gives up too many walks and home runs to be anything other than a middle reliever. He was “average at best” coming up through the Red Sox farm system and has not changed.
Noe.
Many HBP and BB.
Did the Reds decide they need a pitcher that will defend it’s batters that are getting hit?
2019-2020 they get HBP a lot more than they hit other team’s batters.
Not that it’s very honourable, but I think owning the plate and making the opposing bats uncomfortable can be helpful.
Hitting guys for bat flips, watching home runs, stealing bases is poor sportsmanship to me. But if the other team keeps hitting your stars, or if they slide late, absolutely flatten your catcher or some other aggressive move, then they need to answer the bell.
Noe sticking up for Lucroy moved him into my good books.
He has no control, he might’ve hit him by mistake.
But Marisnick needed some form of payback in my books.
Ramirez is nice to have on your side. Not for a high leverage situation so much. Better than the average mop up option out there.
Filthy – “Not for a high leverage situation so much.”
I totally agree…
Noe will get to see plenty of HR watching and bat flips pitching in GABP.
As long as it’s not Adell, Marsh, Detmers, or Rodriguez, it should be a win for the Angels
It won’t be any of the players you mentioned, probably a player in late teens early 20’s similar to Perry’s other trade for the shortstop Iglesias. Reds are cutting costs and last year noe had a higher war then Iglesias and has years of control left.
Could have had LH Brad Hand for $10MM without giving up a body. That makes the Value of a RH reliever like Iglesias at $9.1MM very little. Don’t expect a top prospect back.
My guess is Inglesias will make about 7.5
But your point is valid. They are not going to get a top prospect back.
The Reds are sending cash in the trade though
Perry “Ya’ll got any more them Iglesisas players”
Dialing Enrique’s agent now
Fluffy on line 2
Perfect…lol
They considered Julio, but he was busy with Willie counting all the girls they’ve loved before.
Really interested in knowing who the PTBNL in this is. Otherwise, huh?
Trout
yeah in 2035
that will be a disgrace even then.
Does it still have to be a PTBNL for a non-roster guy? Or did this rule end with the WS?
Gruß,
BSHH
Nice, Bauer too? Might as well go all in now, Trout isn’t getting any younger and that Rendon contract is gonna be a drag within a few years
@Kanucklehead- I was thinking the same thing if the Halos offer Bauer 5-7 years and $28-30 million annually expect him to sign there. Especially after missing out on Cole last season.
He wants a year to year deal, maybe two at most with the pandemic. Bauer views things differently than most and I respect him for that.
He recently said he’s open to multi-year deals. Somebody offers him $100+MM on a three or more year deal with the right AAV, I think he’ll take it.
not with yankees, for sure.
He’s walked that statement back since, bestno.
Bauer, per his agent, said they are open to all contract options …1yr, multi year.
I wonder if he’s open to changing his last name to Iglesias…HMMM
Reds are even paying down the salary? Seems like a good move by the Angels.
They have cornered the market on Iggies!
Dump salary do they keep Gray now?
I think that’s the idea.
Scary Perry!! Just the beginning Walsh for Snell is next
Pretty sure the Rays have enough Walsh types.
Kayjay- It would be nuts to give up Walsh! He was killing it when he got promoted, if he came up sooner he would’ve probably taken the ROY from my guy Kyle Lewis. Angels need to balance the Rendon/Trout/Shohei/Pujols contracts with cost controlled hitters like Walsh
Angles, you’re doing it right. That’s one big step in the right direction.
Pretty obtuse move, for sure
That was quite an acute observation.
That seems like the right response to that comment.
You guys see all the Angel’s angles.
And one small step for mankind
Everyone’s vernacular is so ambiguous to me. I R not educateted. =D
Something tells me that PTBNL is going to make halo fans cry
I highly doubt it. Iglesias doesn’t have as much value as you think. And Noe isn’t a scrub.
Yes, I don’t the player to be named later is meaningful.
The basically got Iglesias for a lot more than they could have gotten Hand.
The Reds did well getting a guy that isn’t going to cost anything, for a guy who is going to cost seven and a half million.
If the reds are sending cash it will be decent prospect no question.
I don’t think I’ll cry, but I’ll wonder if one year is worth it.
@Halo. I thought similarly. Why not just offer Hand 2 year $16 million or see if he bites on a 1 year $9 million contract? Or maybe they did and he turned it down but I just don’t find that likely.
I like the upside here, hope Reds are covering a majority of his salary or this is a head scratcher. but it’s a start to a new bullpen!
I’m sure it’s not a 1-for 1 trade, the news just broke ….but if it is, nicely done Angels.
As a halo fan this actually makes me sad. I liked Noe. But this should help the club so good move. Nice going Perry! Keep it up.
Terrible pitcher, super likable guy
Terrible? The angels have had bullpen problems before Noe even got to Anaheim. And he has never been the issue. He’s not bad, definitely MLB worthy even on some top tier teams.
@andrewgauldin, Noe was fine in low to none pressure situations. He isn’t a guy you could put in the late game, when it tied or a close game vs good teams
Probably true. But he’s not a terrible pitcher, and he wasn’t the problem. He could still be a necessary piece to the bullpen even with the addition of Iglesias or other Late inning relievers
I agree with you, Andrew. Noe was a low cost, low leverage innings eater that served the Angels very well the past few seasons. Hate to see him go, but a nice upgrade for the Angels.
Another nice under the radar move by Perry. Keep it rollin’.
Finally, an Angel’s GM building a bullpen using more than just waiver claims.
Cornering the market on Iglesias’
Finally. Took way too long for someone to point that out. Lol
Seriously, what’s all that arguing up there about?! I’m just trying to find this joke right here!!
Gotta be a drag for Reds fans…..depending on who that PTBNL is? Could be significant.
It will be a non-prospect, trust me. This is a pure salary dump, and there probably weren’t a lot of takers. $9m rellievers with an uneven recent record are not in high demand (we just saw that with Brad Hand, who is about the same player at the same price as Iglesias and no one wanted to even claim him).
The Angels rotation is absolute garbage. If I were them I would go out right now and just stockpile bullpen arms since the market is saturated with them and walk out of this with AT LEAST a super bullpen. I’m not sure signing Bauer is a smart move by them as they already have massive dead weight contracts on the books as it is and they need multiple guys in the rotation. I would honestly consider trading for Sonny as well since he’s only at 10 million per. And although Bauer was great this year, it was an aberration as he is no where near THAT good. He’s solid but not a #1 as the numbers this year indicated.
Do you follow the Angels at all?
Bundy, Canning, Heaney and Barria are far from garbage. You should look at what they did last year before making such comments.
Yup agreed. We need an ace and to stay healthy. That’s much better than a lot of teams.
The Angels had a 5.52 rotation ERA last year. Better than the Tigers, and that’s it.
You should dig deeper my dude. Its because we trotted out people like Matt Andreise and the corpse of Noodles Hahn which heavily skewed it. Also if you look at FIP instead (which is more accurate) the Angels were almost dead league average in SP.
@vtadave nice job missing context. If “healthy” was used in the statement above or did you miss that part? When healthy angels team era was closer to 3.8 when canning 3.9 era, heaney 4.33 era and bundy 3.29 era started. When suarez, Terehan, sandoval pitched to over a 6.5 era…fixing the problem starts with more quality starting pitching. Take out the last 3 mentioned and it’s a good base definately not the worst in the league.
Please stop with those pesky facts.
Canning had a 4.00 and his fip was mid 4s… Harris started like 5 games… the only real piece in their rotation is Bundy who isn’t exactly know for being consistent
barria not harris. auto correct got me
So VTDave, you don’t follow the Angels closely.
You are judging their rotation on players who wont be in it next year. You are judging Ohtani on two starts.
Bundy, Canning, Heaney, Barria – you proved his point. Much closer to garbage than any word you want to describe that starting rotation.
We are all guess.
Then I guess the A’s top four were garbage,
Bundy 3.29, Canning 3.99, Barria 3.62, Heaney was 4..02 prior to being blown up by the Dodgers in his last start of the year.
Not close to garbage.
5 games pitched for Barria… you might as well leave him out… He is a 4.50 ERA in a normal year…
When left alone in 2018, a young Barria held up well. He did so again at the tail end of 2020. In between, the Angels jerked him around and he suffered mightily.
I would like to see what Barria could do with 20+ starts. He’s not an ace, but he may be a very serviceable #5.
Dalton, who is the real Barria? The guy who had the 3.41 ERA in 2018. The 3.62 ERA in 2020. Or the 6.42 ERA in 2019?
Do you know? Hard to label someone as garbage who has been good two out of the three years he pitched.
So a league average pitcher in a normal year?
Those are well above league average ERA for starters.
ERA + of 125 and 123? That’s league average? Morris got in the Hall of Fame with a 105+ ERA. Blyleven was 118+
I’m not comparing him to those pitchers but no way can anyone thing those ERA+ is league average.
Same crappy argument a year ago Halo. You need new material. Or a new team to objectively look at the Angels. Heaney is consistently mediocre, Bundy could revert to pre-2020, young guys are unproven. Stop it. Your rotation is garbage.
My argument last year is if you Know the Angels starting pitcher’s will suck, then how can you be so sure the A’s starting pitching will be good.
I was pretty much right on the button.
My Argument was always A’s vs the Angels. And it was pretty darn accurate.
Having a great bullpen isn’t everything. Jays had one of the best bullpens going into the last couple weeks of the season but they Semi imploded because no starter other then Ryu was going more then 4 innings. If it’s going to be another condensed season teams are gonna need to have a really good combination of arms that can just throw innings.
Chemo- The Starting rotation is not garbage. Do some research before posting your garbage
it is still quite bad…
@dalton1017 so far you look very informed so while you are ahead why don’t you go ahead and sit down. Sorry you hate the angels, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Opinions aren’t facts.
You did this same song and dance a year ago and you were proven wrong. Let’s not make this a repeat performance. Your squad needs Bauer and one more arm at the very least.
That’s like 27 teams in the league that needs Bauer and one more arm if they want to compete with what the Dodgers are rolling out there.
Needing an ace like Bauer is quite a bit removed from Garbage.
Until you get Bauer, your rotation is garbage.
big and good move
All your Iglesias are belong to us
Comment of the day! lol!
All they need now is Julio to complete the trifecta
The Angels need to add another dependable bullpen arm. Obviously they like him a lot more than Hand.
Thats why I don’t think the PTBNL is someone that is going to hurt for the Angels to see leave.
Everyone could have had Brad Hand at $10M without giving up anyone, so even assuming the Angles like Iglesias more, why would they send Ramirez + someone significant for Iglesias at $9.125M. What the Angels are giving up in this trade is their willingness to absorb salary.
Perry wasn’t yet GM when Hand went through waivers. That could be a factor. I’m also puzzled how every team passed on Hand. Perhaps there is something else going on there. Injury? Declining metric? Attitude?
Thirty teams passed on Hand.
What was going on with hand is a big drop in velocity.
The drop in velocity is interesting, but a lot of the other stats for Hand still look really good. Solid K/9, BB/9, WHIP, FIP etc…
That was like the opening move of the offseason, so I think there were some teams who were unwilling to pick up salary at the outset. They’ve been proven right since this offseason has shown there are other opportunities to get relievers on cheaper contracts. LAD just got Knebel at half the price for basically nothing, Iglesias available here for less $ with CIN sending some cash, guys like Bradley hitting the market who are going to get half of what Hand would if picked up off waivers.
It probably ends up with Hand getting a 2 year deal at a lower AAV because the market isn’t paying backend relievers $10M per year right now.
Frankly, now they need Hand. Make Iglesias their 8th inning guy.
Angels are collecting players named Iglesias.
The first of many “that’s it” majority takes from this offseason. If you’re saying that over and over again as a fan you probably need to realize you don’t have any idea of the value of players right now.
I think you’re right that many of us are going to be having that reaction to a whole lot of trades this offseason. There are going to be some salary dump that would make Charlie Finley proud.
Ok
In my opinion gambling is still going on in the reds organization.at least pete bet on the reds to win but I feel like the gm position of the reds for some years are betting on the side for the reds to lose.
An inept organization.
Minasian has helped build really good bullpens in Atlanta. I’ve been curious as to his approach here.
Solid first strike.
Minasian Has made a couple of good trades things are looking up
finally we got a good GM Be patient give him a little more time he’s slowly Plugging up holes
PERRYYYYYY!
Great start. I love this move.
Also, I am already tired of the “But it’s not Bauer” people. I’m even more tired of the “Wrong Reds pitcher” people. Bauer isn’t even a Reds pitcher. SMH
(Not in comments BTW. These people exist in droves over on Tweeter.)
Wow the Reds really went for it for one “season” before throwing in the towel completely.
It’s a small market (smallest in MLB) that’s very dependent on gate revenues for their budget. They need salary relief, and this actually wasn’t a half bad way to get it. Ramirez can pitch a little.
Noe Ramirez isn’t a mlb caliber pitcher ! Reds should dfa him to be honest and transparent about what’s about to happen with them ! As for the player to be named later if there’s a option to take cash instead they are taking cash for sure , probably getting back the cash they are sending lol! They just wanted Iglesias gone
Noel – agreed, Noe has never been a mlb quality pitcher. He is AAA depth pitching in the mlb only because there are not enough quality pitchers to go around. I watched Noe come through the Red Sox system and was glad when he was traded to the Angels.
The Red Sox trotted out pitchers like:
Godley, Kickham, Leyer, Hart, Springs, Covey, Hall ….none of which should have been in the mlb. For that reason I hope there is no farther expansion as there just not enough quality players to go around. It creates a huge disparity between good and bad teams. (Great if you root for one of the good teams). I would prefer several teams from cities unable to support a team to move to cities trying for a new team than expansion.
The best part of this trade, Noe Ramirez is gone
That Angels back end could be naaaasty now with Iglesias, Buttrey, and Mayers…
Btw, the Angels have traded for two players with that last name Iglesias in a one week span. That’s history.
If the Reds are just giving guys away, I want the White Sox to make an offer for Gray.
What’s your offer?
Why would a trade include a PTBNL at this point in the calendar? Maybe the Reds get a choice between a couple of players playing winter ball and get to make their decision after seeing them?
Often PTBNL’s are based on whether a player stays healthy (whether that’s the guy being traded, in this case Iglesias, or some minor leaguer that ended 2020 on the injured list).
Thanks. It just seems like that’s usually an in season trade scenario, but like you said maybe it’s more about a certain player being ready to start next season. I just thought maybe it might have to do with a lack of scouting opportunities last year that might be available now in winter league.
With no minor league season last year, the Reds may simply want to look at the players before choosing.
Someone better warn the Angels to not use Iglesias in any inning, other than the 9th, and only in an actual “save” situation. He can’t pitch otherwise… (jus typin)
When did the Reds resurrect Marge Schott? I must have missed it.
Her spirit was probably awakened after the 2016 election.
There’s no room for TDS in baseball.
Wow that’s a really solid pickup for the Angels. Iglesias is a top-notch reliever and while Noe Ramirez put up solid numbers in his own right last season, he’s still clearly not on the same level as Iglesias who’s been a top-10 caliber CL the past 4 years. $9M is a good chunk of $ but assuming he pitches to his norms (2.50-2.80 ERA and 10+ K/9) he’ll be well worth the $ It’ll be interesting to see who the PTBNL — if it’s an actual legit prospect or if it’s really just a throw in. If not for the $9M I would assume it would be a solid prospect to acquire Iglesias… but if the trade was mostly $ cutting based it may not have taken as much to acquire him.
In defense of Noe Ramirez—he was not a high-leverage kind of guy.
that’s OK, since the bullpen covers many roles. What he did do well is step into a game and stop the bleeding, often in the mid-innings, and stabilize the team by pitching a couple of innings.
He might not want to be the guy who comes in with the bases loaded and no outs with a 1-run lead in the 9th, but a guy who comes in with the team down by 2 in the 5th and the SP flailing, gets out of the jam and pitches 1-2 scoreless innings, and keeps the other team from running away with the game has a role in that bullpen as well.
Reds are such a bad franchise self destructing. Bradley pitched well and they toss him for nothing. Trade Iglesias. Rumored to be trading Gray? Yikes.
Baseball is a business. The Reds are the smallest market in baseball with one of the smallest TV contracts. You connect the dots.
The killer was, on top of it all, losing revenue sharing in 2020.
The Reds attempt to compete was very short lived and disappointing. No doubt.
Well, if you are given an understandable budget cut, shedding salary in the bullpen is probably better than cutting it elsewhere. You can probably run a cheap bullpen that is effective given the market this year.
Two Iglesias, Angels, something about fish. Is there a holier organization with more birthright now?
Julio and Enrique sing the national anthem on opening day.
That actually would be awesome if they did that.
Angels have cornered the market of available Iglesias’
Hahahaha….has anyone noticed that the Angels just acquired two guys with the same sur-name? Hahahaha.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Every team has their type.
The Angels love players with the last name Iglesias.
The Reds love out-of-options relievers.
2021 AL west standings.
A’s 91-61
Astros 86-76
Rangers 76-86
Mariners 74-88
Angels 72-90
A’s 91-61
Astros 86-76
Who cares
Who cares
Who cares
Reason for A’s to win the division: Strong mix of pitching and offense. solid bullpen and the farm to pull off trades to improve.
Reason for the Astros: really there isn’t much of a reason to think the Astros will be very competitive. they will be without Verlander and lost their entire OF… but I think a big year from Bergman and Tucker along with having Correa and a few others will make them a winning team for at least one more season.
Reason for Rangers: Their bullpen has the potential to be the best in the division. SP had some major issues but they have a couple of bright spots in Cody and pitching prospects like Winn and Crouse. Their offense has a ton of young players with good upside Solak and Calhoun could both hit .280 with 25+HRs and if they do that it may be the protection Gallo needs to succeed.
Mariners: Unlike most of the AL west their strength may be their starting pitching… which isn’t really that good.
Angels: so far this off-season all they have done his get much worse a SS and find someone for the backend of the bullpen who is actually okay. bullpen is still terrible though and their rotation is laughable
I think Solak bounces back next season, and I think Calhoun finally gets comfortable in the box again next season. Just that gives Gallo enough protection to make this offense click. Not to mention maybe getting Kim and replacing Odor’s production with Kim. Just to look at our offense, we would have a nice mix of hitters style wise: Gallo, super power; Solak, hard line drive hitter; Calhoun, lives in right center gap; IKF, contact hitter with potential to elevate his launch angle; Taveras, speedy contact leadoff hitter; Guzman, hits righties, lefties own him; Trevino, quietly a good bottom of the order bat; Kim, contact hitter with good line drive potential. If all of those things go our way, then our offense would click, but I doubt this happens…
Plus our pitching will probably suck outside of Cody and maybe a few good pickups.
Rangers29
Gallo super streaky.
Calhoun ready after getting face mashed?
Falafel with a soph slump?
Solak gets a real chance or bounced around?
Excited to see what Taveras can do.
Promise you the Jays are getting Kim :p
Rangers pitching looked promising before 2020. Maybe Gibson, Lyles, Allard provide something this time.
Bullpen?
Could see a better season, but a lot of questions needing the right answers.
INK is entering his 3 rd season…
Oo my bad, overlooked his utility days, looks like 4th if you count 2020 as a season. IKF established!
Not a lot of power though? Gets on, can run and field, I like him.
All about the pitching. If the bullpen is looking strong, then there will be hope I guess.
Mariners pitching was no worse after trade Walker surprised me.
Astros pitching survived after losing Verlander also surprised me.
Some arms throughout the division that could swing the results quite heavily just by getting hurt before April..
@Dalton1017, the A’s and Astros are both losing key players. Losing Hendrix and Petit will hurt the A’s bullpen. The Astros window is almost completely closed. Seattle can’t hit and have no bullpen. Do they have young starters with potential? Yes most definitely. The Rangers have one good starter, a inconsistent bullpen and the most overrated lineup in baseball. The Rangers and Mariners need more pieces than the Angels. They Angels filled a stop gap SS, until one of their SS prospects are ready, or sign a better SS next off-season. Now is this the move going to put the Angels in the playoffs next season? No obvious not. Is this a step in right direction? Yes definitely
calling the Rangers lineup overrated is hilarious… it is veiwed as one of the worst in the league
Dalton-Seriously? It’s December 7th and you’re making 2021 final standing predictions. If your that serious, Go to Vegas and drop a weeks pay on that nonsense. SMH.
that is as it stands
Dalton look how the National media looks at them, they are always predict to have one of the best lineups in the majors.
And yet the Angels struggle to contend despite the strong batting order. Why is that? Pitching? Yet Angel fans cannot come to grips with the fact their team struggles on the mound. We remind them and they scold us. Rinse and repeat the following offseason.
If you don’t believe it just read the comments from Angel fans defending the starting pitching. Angels would lose 90 in the AL East with that staff.
who says angels are not getting good pitching? that just proves you are nothing but a troll!
@WereAllJustGuestsHere, the Angels had 14 blown saves. Missed the playoffs by two games. Do they need to improve the starting staff? Yes most definitely. The Angels had the second worst bullpen ERA in the majors this year, only behind the Phillies. The Angels had the second worst ERA for starters only behind the Tigers. The A’s was bottom of the league in starting pitching ERA. What was the biggest difference between the Angels and A’s? Was the A’s had a better bullpen. Which pretty much all their best relievers are FA. Do the Angels need to go out and get two top tier starters? Yes they do. But so does every team not named the Dodgers or Reys.
I’m not really sure how the Angels having such a high ERA in their starting rotation is relevant. Last year is last year.
How is Teheran’s 10+ ERA relevant?
How is Ohtani’s 37.8 ERA relevant?
How is Suarez’s 38 ERA relevant?
I doubt Sandoval’s ERA of 5.65 is even relevant.
Could they use another starter… YES. And if his ERA is anywhere near four it would be a huge add for this team.
Wereall-You’re not telling us Angels fans something don’t already know. We’re just tired of people in here following the same 2 narrative threads every time the angels make a transaction
#1 Angels need pitching
#2 Mike Trout has only been to one PS series.
#3 Okay, We got it. The FO is working on it.
You missed the 8-seed by 2 games. Stop it.
HaloHonk – Glad you are admitting it. But your Angel fan buddies are still delusional over the rotation. You and others built the rotation up (without Bundy’s emergence BTW), and it’s still a major problem. Yet aside from this comment from you, nobody wants to admit how bad the rotation is. The defense of the rotation is absurd. You need Bauer and another arm. Angels need Bauer in the worst way.
Well, you misrepresented my point of view. I’m really sure you are misrepresenting others.
He seems to be HaloShanes alt account.
I wonder if Minasian had been in charge when Hand was let go if he’d have picked him up.
He’s still available, far as I know.
Yes, but he probably will want a multi-year deal now. Minasian might not be comfortable with that just yet.
What difference does it make if he’s still availible?
The Rule 5 draft is this week, so the PTBN is likely someone LAA didn’t protect, and the Reds want to see him clear before they take him, for the sake of a 40-man roster spot.
Overall? If you’re a Reds fan, it’s yuck. Angels fan? No brainer.
actually that isn’t really the case most of the time they just have a list of prospects they are interested in then they watch tape or scout the players. I can think of maybe 2 trades in the last five years where a ptbnl was someone who was in danger of being picked in the rule 5.
So the Reds spent the last several seasons trading prospects for major league talent and giving out big contracts in an effort to become competitive… apparently for one whole (or one half, really) season. It’s as if they went completely all-in for 2020, failed, and now are ready to blow it all up again.
Highly disappointing.
The way they blew it up last time is still fresh in the minds of Reds fans. The return they got on their veterans in trades was horrifically light. I expect that what comes back in a Sonny Gray trade will have most of us dry heaving. I think it’s becoming pretty clear that the vacancy at SS will ultimately be filled by a Freddy Galvis again if they’re lucky. Most likely it will be a below replacement level stopgap with an OK glove and no stick whatsoever willing to take a 1-year $1M contract at most.
I’m not an Angels fan but if I was I’d be very pleased with the job Perry Minasian is doing so far. That’s two solid trades already.
Red’s gm has no clue how to build a roster.
No central is currently down to 3 contenders for the next 5 years
As a Pirates fan, I resemble that remark.
The Cubs and Cardinals are cutting salary as well.
Wow. Reds finally start making strides at being a playoff team for multiple years and end up one and done. Even if they wanted him, there’s no way Bauer re-signs with that sinking ship.
Wow. Reds punt on this season. Makes the Bradley non-tender even stranger.
It does, and now the Bradley move almost makes it look like we could have seen the Iglesias trade coming. At least the Reds got something for Iglesias, they flat out gave away Bradley after giving away two prospects for a half-season of him.
They made the playoffs, reds rebuild starting again
OMG – Did anyone notice that the Angels now have TWO players named Iglesias?!
You’re about the tenth commenter to post this. Did you not read any comments?
Mo – FYI – My comment was sarcastic and poking fun at all of the redundant comments about the two players with the same name. Sorry that wasn’t more obvious.
Got it. Thanks. Whew! Someone who gets it! 🙂
That PTBNL better be pretty good because that’s a huge downgrade. The reason baseball is dying is because it’s predominantly run by owners who don’t give a rat’s ass about winning
Ding ding ding
The second teams were allowed to call themselves “rebuilding” was the second it all started going downhill. When you set the bar far below “title” you breed irrelevancy.
Despite the fact that you’re absolutely right, someone I’m sure will be along shortly to lecture you on the economics of baseball which will, no doubt, make us all feel better. We can blame it on anybody and anything, but at the end of the day the Reds have launched a fire sale about 3-4 years earlier than any of us expected.
I don’t see why the two need to be mutually exclusive. I fully understand baseball economics. I also understand a family not wanting to spend hard earned money at the ballpark of a team who is openly not trying to win. All those nights not spent at the ballpark or watching the game on TV are missed opportunities to turn the youngsters into fans.
I’d rather have Some Ramirez.
1 year of a closer seems to be surprisingly below market value to me, is the trade market really that overrated that no one wants to move anyone out of their top 20 anymore?
As a reds fan I’m going to choose to look at this optimistically. Iglesias isn’t great or even good 75% of the time. We have studs on their way up (Lodelo & Greene). And we picked up what looks like 2 players under team control for multiple years and lost an over priced bottom tier closer for his last year. Sending money worries me a little, but short stop is the priority right now and rightfully so. I’m hoping this move pushes the front office in the direction of feeling better about pulling the trigger to get Lindor or Story.
“Isn’t great or good 75% of the time”
Yet he closed 87% of save opportunities.
Sure if he had a 3 run lead. 1 run games was more like 50%
Great move for the Angels. All they need now is 5 starting pitchers and they should be able to contend in the upcoming season.
Feel like this is a weak return for CIN.
First Jose Iglesias and now Raisel Iglesias. I guess Julio Iglesias and Enrique Iglesias are next.
These are pretty ok moves so far.
If your last name is Iglesias, there’s a good chance you’re gonna end up in a Angels uniform. Just a heads-up
Angels add two churches to the team. A closer and a defensive SS. Is there a theme going on here?
Pray for an Ace starter?
Nice job Perry! Keep building the staff..
Wouldnt this move be out of the red?
The reds are dumping salary to get a good shortstop. Probably semien or Gregorius, but most likely Didi.
Not sure the DiD,i at this time in his career, is going to be too excited to play for a team committed to a “rebuild” that most likely will last for at least a couple of seasons….pretty sure he’ll have other offers comparably in salary that will never lead him to accept playing for a team committed to losing!
That one year playoff run was amazing, time to rebuild
Reds are the worst ran team in baseball by a mile. It’s not even close ! They traded away 3 top 100 prospects, other prospects, and blew their whole wad last offseason to barely squeak into the expanded playoffs. And now a sell off. What a complete joke. I feel terrible for every player forced to come up in their system.
Front offices will do anything to save their jobs. Even if that means trading away their future just to barely make the playoffs with no chance of winning the world series. In hopes of securing an extension for putting together a playoff team.
We haven’t had a true closer since Houston Street.
You still don’t…just wait and see…lol
Titanic-you must be a disgruntled Reds fan,
Not so much with the team iself…but I shuddered everything he went to the mound…
What happened to Robles last year?!
Or is it what happened to him in 2019?
Another COVID cost cutting move! Never understood the moose signing. Bad time to be a free agent.
Every game I watched Raisel Iglesias pitch in, he blew the lead and lost the game. Even though the Reds should’ve gotten MUCH more for Iglesias, time may show that the Reds didn’t lose this trade.
Enrique will be here to comment later
He just has some unfinished business with Mickey Rourke to attend to first.
Oops, back to rebuilding. So close, Reds fans! Maybe 2027.
Angels seem to be stocking up on Iglesias’s
If starting pitching is going to continue to be an issue for the team than a shutdown closer is certainly a very good addition
This is the 20th comment on the fact that this is the second Iglesias deal for the Angels in a week. Oh, and the third comment (at least) that Iglesias means church. The church fact was noted and repeated when Jose was acquired last week. Apparently very few commenters read the comments before they post.
Thank you for counting. I didn’t read through all of the 200 comments on the thread but thanks for pointing it out
Iglesiai?
“All the Iglesias are belong to us” -The Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles.
Calling All Iglesias
My analysis of the trade: https://maxsportingstudio.com/making-sense-of-the-raisel-iglesias-trade/
Iglesias is a classic case of stats not telling the whole story. Wait until he’s called in with a three run cushion to nail down a W, and Big Flys start raining down on the bleacher seats. Been there, seen that too many times! Good riddance…and I don’t care what they got back for him…
seen that too many times!
————————————————–
In the past 4 years, he has 100 saves. Only 4 RPs have more saves over that period. Of those 4 RPs, all have more blown saves.
So, statistically, you certainly have not seen that too many times.
Angel fans wanted to replace Percival. They wanted to replace K-Rod.
Fans expect closers to be automatic. I never take them too seriously when they complain about their closers when they are not.
2017-18 he was sensational (although he gave up too many dingers in 2018). 2019 he was simply awful, and I mean AWFUL. 3-12 with an ERA over 4 and a WAR barely above replacement value. 2020 he was quite good. If the Angels get the “normal” Raisel, they will be happy. If they get the 2019 version, well ….
One thing to watch re Raisel. You can ONLY bring him in with a lead. If you bring him in when you are tied or behind, you will be sorry. I don’t know why this is, but Reds fans know this all too well.
I don’t understand this at all. They finished a 7-year rebuilding campaign last year, snuck into the playoffs with a .517 winning percentage.
For most teams, this is the start of a 5-year run to various levels of contention. But the Reds finished 8th in the league in BP ERA, and are dumping their closer and another good RP? And not prohibitively expensive players.
And this after springing for $39M per in three FAs last year. The combined look is awful.
They traded two good prospects for Puig, even though they had no shot of competing in his one year in Cincy.
They then traded a top prospect for one year of Bauer.
So they traded Gray, Downs, Trammell, Fairchild and Van Meter, and added $39M in payroll, for a one-year shot at the playoffs?
Or, put another way, They could signed Bauer, Iglesias, and Archie Bradley, for the same money used to sign Castellanos, Moose, and Akiyama?
The COVID effect
Should have kept Bradley
Look…. this is just dumb on the reds part. Commit to your fans. You were on the cusp of having a really good team and it’s falling apart in front of their eyes without any really good explanation as to why…
The team they signed couldn’t win and they can’t afford the team they signed. Seems like a pretty straightforward explanation.
The Reds got rid of salary that may not have been worth 9 million on the open market for two players. Not a bad deal for the Reds.
In my opinion mlb should investigate the vegas sports books to see how much krall bet on the reds coming in fifth in division.
Maybe True, but anyone could have gotten Brad Hand for 10 million. Iglasias was not worth 9 million yet the Reds dumped his salary and got two players.
The sent back cash and got below replacement level players. Your comment is misleading.
The Reds got a serviceable Major League RP. And a long shot prospect.
And they basically got that for whatever cash they are sending the Angels way. Do you know how much that is?
Iglasias isn’t worth 9 million.
$900K
Since Iglesias isn’t worth his salary. But lets say he is worth exactly his salary. The Reds got a serviceable major league RP and a long shot prospect for 900 grand. That’s a pretty good deal by the Reds.
Hand wasn’t claimed by a single major league team at 10 million.
Yep I was glad to see it only took 900k in cash to dump that salary… It makes me like this move a whole lot more.. He was way overrated and very inconsistent. People keep pointing out his save stats but look at the number of losses he’s had over the past the 2 seasons.. And yes I know Wins & Losses are obviously a terrible stat for starters but it’s actually pretty relevant for late inning relievers and his loss numbers were atrocious…
Biggie, he is not a lights out closer. But he is solid. Nine million is over market rate for someone who is expected to be a solid closer.
The Angels needed someone. He’s not bad, but the Reds dumped his salary and still got a serviceable bullpen guy in return.
It wasn’t a bad deal for the Reds.
Yep I agree. I actually think it’s a good move for both teams. He can definitely be great at times but like many closers he can also be wildly inconsistent especially in non save situations. I hope he kills it for the Angels; I think part of the reason the reds did this is they feel comfortable with Amir Garrett coming in and being just as effective if not more so at 1/4 the price plus they like he’s a lefty…
Do the math it’s not that hard. Noe’s 1.1m + 900k = 2m off of 9.1 = 7.1 for Iggy. That is a good price for a good closer type. HANDS DOWN!
I wonder if Leo Rivas is Luis Rivas’s son?
And wow, I didn’t realize how horrible Luis Rivas was during his career. I guess back at the time before sabermetrics were invented, he probably looked OK on the field for the Twins, but after they were invented, he sucked.
Baseball Reference? Stathead is advertising. How much longer?
Now the angels need to get Julio Iglesias to sing the National anthem, and they’ll have the market cornered in Iglesias’.
The Angels should now try to sign Archie Bradley and the pen would be much better. They still could use a lefty in the pen.
If your starting rotations are less than solid then build up the bullpen, especially with most starters only going 5-7 innings at best.
Trout… YES!!!!!!
I’d rather have Bradley than Iglesias and Bradley was going to make millions less. The Reds should have signed him the traded both to the Angels and kept their 900 thousand.
Now that would have been a good deal for both teams.
“They still could use a lefty in the pen.” – trout27
Brad Hand? Imagine Hand, Bradley and Iglesias? Who says you can’t dream? 🙂
@MoRivera I don’t see that happening. I wouldn’t want Hand. Even though he had great numbers last year, his velocity is declining the past few years. I am happy with Iglesias. He has good numbers in 3 of the past 4 season while playing at GABP. He has to be better than what we got out of closers last year. The other Iglesias fills the void left by Simmons leaving. The Angels need starting pitching. If the Reds are starting a fire sale, I hope the Angels go after Gray. Bauer would be nice but half MLB wants him.