TODAY: The White Sox and Rangers have officially announced the trade.
DECMEBER 7, 11:57pm: The Rangers will also acquire lefty Avery Weems, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic relays.
10:59pm: The White Sox are acquiring right-hander Lance Lynn from the Rangers, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports. Righty Dane Dunning is heading to Texas in the return, Jeff Passan of ESPN tweets. The Rangers will also receive a second player, per Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. It’ll be another young pitcher, according to Mark Feinsand of MLB.com.
This is a major pickup for the White Sox, who are landing one of the most coveted arms on the trade market. Lynn was an innings-eating stalwart with the Cardinals for a large portion of 2011-17. Lynn then signed a one-year, $12MM contract with the Twins, and though he didn’t fare especially well with the club, he rebounded after a second-half trade to the Yankees and has continued to hold his own since then.
Lynn signed a three-year, $30MM guarantee with the Rangers before 2019, and that deal worked out brilliantly for the club. He posted a terrific 3.57 ERA/3.43 FIP with 10.31 K/9 and 2.59 BB/9 in 292 1/3 innings as a member of the team. The 33-year-old could have continued to serve as an asset for the Rangers’ rotation next season, but with the Rangers in a rebuild, president of baseball operations Jon Daniels and new general manager Chris Young elected to go in a different direction.
At one year and $8MM, Lynn will give Chicago – which is coming off its first playoff berth since 2008 – an affordable and effective No. 3 to plug into its rotation behind Lucas Giolito and Dallas Keuchel. The White Sox also have Dylan Cease, Michael Kopech and Reynaldo Lopez in line to compete for starting spots next year.
Considering the Rangers appear unlikely to vie for a playoff spot next year, their return looks good for one season of Lynn’s services.
Dunning, who will turn 26 later this month, is a former first-round pick and an an ex-top 100 prospect who is coming off an encouraging debut with the White Sox. Chicago originally acquired Dunning (not to mention Giolito and Lopez) from the Nationals for outfielder Adam Eaton in December 2016.
Dunning underwent Tommy John surgery in 2019, but he garnered his first experience in the majors a year ago and posted a 3.97 ERA/3.99 FIP with 9.28 K/9 and 3.44 BB/9 in 34 innings. Texas is certainly hoping Dunning will build on that effort and become a long-term member of its rotation. He’ll have ample time to reach that goal, as he’s controllable through at least the 2026 season. Given Lynn’s status as a one-year rental, adding an immediate rotation replacement with some early big league success and a good bit of upside is a nice outcome for Texas.
The Rangers also have high hopes for the 23-year-old Weems, a 2019 sixth-rounder who threw 60 1/3 innings in rookie ball that year. While Weems posted stellar numbers then (2.09 ERA, 11.0 K/9 against 1.5 BB/9), albeit against much younger competition, he is not regarded as a premium prospect at this time. He’ll give the Rangers another fairly polished college arm to add to their ranks, however, which is important for a farm system that is thin on pitching.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Damn! This is a big deal. The Rangers turned down Drew Waters from the Braves straight up for less than 1 and a half years of Lance Lynn. If this is true, I hope the White Sox weren’t dumb enough to give up a Drew Waters level prospect.
Worse. Gave up Dunning
This is a fair trade. Prospect is not going to be a big one.
Indeed! They’ll live to regret this move sooner rather than later!
Avery Weems is the prospect acc. to Rosenthal.
Braves never would give up Waters for 1 plus years of Lance Lynn.
But now that Rangers are open for business time for AA to see what it would cost for Joey Gallo.
Right, that was a rumor that was proven to be false..
Besides, everyone knows there are zero rumors when it comes to AA’s deals..He just gets them done or not at all..lol
Gallo is garbage! AA will not give anything for him!
@nyy42 The only garbage I see is you and your comment. Gallo is literally a Gold Glove outfielder, with 40+ hr power, high walk rate, and an ability to score 80+ runs. Prior to his 2019 injury he was well on his way to breaking out and being a top 10 player at the end of that year. He is only 27 & is controlled through the 2022 season while only making 5.75 mill this season.
Couldn’t agree with you more
Garbage? He just won a gold glove and was an MVP CANDIDATE in 2019 before he got hurt.
Sometime rumors come from the other team. A beat writer said that about AA and now people take it as the gospel. There are exceptions..
Dumb trade by the White Sox in my opinion. One year of Lynn compared to 4-5 years of Dunning, who looked really good in his first year!
Flags fly forever.
I don’t follow the White Sox much, but this doesn’t seem like a typical Rick Hann move at all. Not to be a troll, but as a DET fan…I kind of like it
Dunning is likable, but he lacks a good fastball. He’s a back-end starter and those aren’t that difficult to find.
Lynn is an over-the-top kind of move. With Giolito, Keuchel, Cease, and the wild card, Kopech, it’s easy to see Chicago’s pitching dominating.as long as they stay relatively healthy.
Factor that in with any kind of step forward from Robert and Madrigal, and it shouldn’t be hard to see how they might find themselves winning postseason games.
totally agree. Maybe there is an extension in the works? otherwise imo it’s a bad move to trade young pitching for a rental.
“but as a DET fan…I kind of like it”
Makes sense. Lynn will be long gone before Detroit is a legitimate threat.
Dunning has 6 years left
JDC it would be 6 years of control through the 2026 season per the article
Hey Priggs, you got it buddy! Lynn probably won’t be in the league, but I’m guessing Dunning will. You won’t see me holding my breath while Miggy’s contract is on DET books! I honestly didn’t mean that as a jab to WSox nation. I just see more potential in Dunning is all! That is not to say this team isn’t shaping up for a nice playoff run.
Kopeck as a “wild card?” You got that right. He’s been out of action for two years. They can’t count on him for anything, though. Any innings he pitches will be an unexpected bonus.
Seriously, who reported they offered? You may mean TEX asked for Waters/Pache for Lynn – and this why the trade never happened.
In what world? The Rangers WANTED Waters (or Pache), but the Braves weren’t interested:
FredMcGriff for the HOF
Nice trade for the Rangers.
Great deal for both teams!
This seems like typical old White Sox. Trade young talent to avoid spending money in free agency. I like Lynn, he makes them better for 2021, but beyond that?
It’s an exciting name, and maybe 2021 will be a very good year for them. But giving up a guy like Dunning for 1 year of anyone just seems too much. They could have signed someone, albeit a lesser pitcher than Lynn, without trading anyone. Dunning seems like one of those guys who does not have a phenomenal arm like Cease, but will be more successful because unlike Cease, he has command and throws strikes.
The rest of the offseason will determine how good a move this is. They have 37+ million coming off the books (more like 30 if you add Lynn’s salary). There are plenty of good FA options that would make them better, that are not uber cheap wishful thinking type guys. Beyond Springer, there is Rosario, Brantley, or Ozuna in right. I don’t mind the idea of forcing Brantly or Ozuna into right even if it is less than ideal defensively. Ozuna especilly, he won a gold glove in left a few years ago. I imagine he would not be worse than Mazara was.
Anyway, this should be the last of the trades, unless they are going to simply torch the rebuild and make self destructive decisions that nobody understands.
Ironically, Lance Lynn made his MLB debut in June of 2011 under new White Sox manager Tony La Russa who finished his HOF career that same season with a World Series championship. Lynn pitched predominately out of the Cardinals bullpen and was added to their postseason roster where he appeared in 10 games and was credited with one victory each in the NLCS and the WS.
The man who oversaw the draft that produced Lynn: Jeff Luhnow. Not surprised Tony La Russa would want Lynn as a part of his staff. They were together for the 2011 run which Lynn was instrumental part of.
And it finally happened! About damn time! And way to go White Sox for pulling the trigger on a trade that can put them in great position for next season. This is a great move.
Now let’s see what they gave up for this great move.
Dane Dunning and a prospect via Jeff Passan
Bad trade. Dunning has potential.
You want potential later or try to win a World Series now?
Every prospect does, sometimes you have to take a risk to get a good player. Can’t hug prospects forever. The time is now for the White Sox.
Bad comment. All guys have potential. What you expect to trade, two minor league roster fillers?
White Sox aren’t winning a world series any time soon.
Salty cause the Cubs dynasty never happened?
Win a World Series now. You have no assurance that a prospect will pan out.
Nope not til next October..
World Series my ass!!
What dynasty? Only talking heads said it would be a dynasty. Cubs fans hoped for one a dynasty sure. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want one. They won 2-3 ahead of expected. No one expected Jake Arrieta be nearly unhittable and for 2 games in 15 starts he was. The Yankees were supposed to start a new dynasty when they got ARod. And before him Jason Giambi. How many did they win with those 2? 1 WS.
The Dodgers were supposed to be a Dynasty as well. How many have they won since they stacked loading up on talent. 1 and it was an abbreviated season. No guarantees they’d win with 162 games.
The braves won 14 straight NL East titles. How many did they win? 1. That was suppose to be a dynasty as well. Yes the braves and Dodgers went to more world series than the cubs. They also lost 2 or more in that time frame as well. Id rather be 1 and done than make it every other year. And most 67% of the time.
I’m not salty at all. However even when the white sox win the world series their fans will be happy,thrilled, ecstatic and salty all at once. Salty because even though their team won, their team still will never be the best team in Chicago. They won’t even have the 4th most popular team in Chicago. It will always be
And depending on the person 2-4 and alternate. For me I only watch hockey during the playoffs. I would still put the hawks over the bulls and bears.
Sorry for the rant.
Yeah not salty at all.
I’m guessing that one hit a nerve with him. Wow!
You have to give up something to get something. That’s how trades work ya know?
“I only watch hockey during the playoffs”
Eww. This salty AND a bandwagon fan? Yikes.
wrek, why should White Sox fans care about their ranking with other Chicago teams? Fans can root for whichever team they please in any sport. What does that have to do with White Sox fans cheering for their team? If someone chooses to root for the Blackhawks why should a White Sox fan care? That rant offers little relevance, actually no relevance to a baseball discussion.
Agree Dunning looked last year. I would not trade good young players for 1 year vets. This is what destroyed the Cubs. Imagine if they still had Gleybor Torres, Jorge Soler, LeMahieu, Eloy and Cease.
If the Sox feel Dunning is too big of an injury risk, and they can sign Lynn can be signed for a couple, then fine. If this is a trend to trade away young players to win now. Then this is a slippery slope.
Let me guess…you’re the type to hammer the Sox for trading Tatis for Shields because you’re Captain Hindsight, but then when they trade a guy with potential in 2020 and you don’t know if he’ll pan out you’re good with it.
Cubsnomore – I agree. I’m excited to get Lynn, he should be a nice pickup. But if we learned one thing from this recent Cubs team, be careful about cashing in too many prospect chips too soon. Hopefully they bet on the right prospect to get rid of, and/or they think they’ll be able to resign Lynn. I’m still excited about this, hopefully it works out.
The Quintana for Eloy/Cease wasn’t a cashing in of ‘too many prospect chips too soon’, it was just a bad trade. Q was never worth that much, even with 4 years remaining on his contract. The Torres trade is a terrible example because Chapman helped them win the WS in ’16.. And the Cubs traded LeMahieu is like 1957 (ok, 2011), so not really relevant.
As for this trade, not sure yet. $8M for a great starter does mean that the Sox can still add a Free Agent without breaking the budget, which I don’t think they could have done had they traded for Wheeler.
“Great” starter, that seems like an exaggeration when describing Lynn
Big Hurt – it looks like you’re quoting me, but then you’re naming the players that cubsnomore mentioned. So I’m not really sure who you’re responding to. But if you’re responding to me, I think you’re missing my point. I’m not getting hung up on any one player or any one trade – I’m commenting on what I consider to be the appropriate time to start trading young players away to supplement a potential playoff roster.
Trading 5 years of a promising prospect for one year of a veteran, after only being one year into their competitive window, is a risky move. I like Lynn, but I don’t want them to make too many of these moves this soon into their competitive window.
If the Cubs still had Torres I probably would not own a 2016 World Champions cap. Torres is a fine player, but I don’t regret that trade at all.
If the Cubs kept all those players, how many World Series would they have won the last six years? One? Maybe none if Rondon, Strop, Edwards, Montgomery, etc. could not have gotten the job done.
Q was probably worth at least as much as Snell is worth right now. More control for less money. He was going to cost at least Eloy. Adding Cease made it an overpay, but Cease has not been a playoff caliber pitcher yet.
This is a way better deal than the Samardzija one even though they can’t tag Lynn with a QO. It helps both teams.
Wrek305 such an angry Cubs fan. This post says everything you need to know about him and Cubs fans in general
Dunning has potential, but you can’t judge him on 2020 performance. He really performed worse as last year went on. But again he was coming off TJS.
It likely was a fair trade and a good gamble on the part of the WS. Lynn is certainly no guarantee, esp pitching in that phone booth of a stadium.
@njbirdsfan, I know you were responding to someone else, but I honestly hated the Shields trade at the time, and it had nothing to do with Tatis. I thought the Sox were fooling themselves into thinking they were a playoff team and fooling themselves into thinking Shields was still a quality pitcher. It was a bad deal at the time because of whom they got and why; it’s a terrible deal in hindsight because of whom they gave up.
In 2019 he finished 5th in Cy Young behind Verlander, Cole, Morton and Bieber. in 2020 he was 6th (would have been higher had he not given up 12 runs in his last start) behind Bieber, Cole, Ryu etc., Yes – I would consider him great at this point in his career.
Dogbone – you accidentally posted a reasonable reply from your troll account. Go back to your normal account. ::)
Sorry ‘party’, I was responding to Cubsnomore, not you.
haha Well the Cubs ‘mastermind’ didn’t draft a single pitcher that made any impact on the club. Yet somehow he gets the credit for the world series win, but little blame for failing to produce a system. All he did was spend. That’s why no ‘dynasty’.
@Dogbone, his career HR/9 is 0.8. Last year was a career high at 1.4, which is still pretty good. I don’t think HR’s will kill him.
“What dynasty? Only talking heads said it would be a dynasty.”
Yeah, ok. Cubs fans were claiming they had a dynasty before they even won a World Series.
Yeah, imagine the WS they wouldn’t have in 2016. Those guys were all blocked at the time too. They would be an okay playoff team now, but you don’t want to just make the playoffs each year. It is about WS Championships. You trade blue chips to put you over the top. Dunning isn’t a blue-chip prospect. This doesn’t even hurt, you just got the 5th best pitcher in WAR over 2019-20. It is win now on the South Side.
You’re right not salty. Never was.
More like angry. Hahahahaha
Not at all.
Sorry but I can’t see this move for Lance Lynn being the move to put them over the top. I still think they’re inexperienced. Will this help sure. Until they get a guy like that can truly put them in position to be at the very top. I don’t see the white sox winning anytime. Still 3-5 years away.
My Bovine Crab: potential
is not a guaranteed thing…..
Rangers29, you gotta be hyped.
MY FATHER HAS ARRIVED CHRIS YOUNG BABABABAYY
Now Young needs to move Odor and I’ll call him my Father
That would put Young in the hall of fame…..
This was a great move by the Rangers! Hopefully this is an indicator of things to come for your team from this point forward. Imho, they just did what the Rays normally do to teams, and the return is going to yield dividends for years.
For Love of the Game
Who’s your daddy?!?!?!
Finally. Let the dominoes fall!!
Say it with me, “that’s it”
White sox Cornering the market nice!
Is a nasty top 3.
Kopech could really make this rotation deadly.
Or trade Kopech and another piece for Blake Snell…
Exactly then they are set
@mlb1225 if he lives up to hype it could very well be the case!
Not nasty none of those guys are proven aces
I’ll take four number 2 starters in the rotation over a single ace. That’s a very solid group of pitchers.
@yankeesrebuild2016 you have cole on a 9 year albatross contract and he underwhelmed in year 1 lol white sox rotation is way better than yankees.
Cole got the equivalent of a 5.94 WAR following 6.6 and 5.7, Given the challenges of Covid, a fine year indeed. He underwhelmed? Not.at.all. Give us more. As far as the Yankee rotation goes for 2021, I would guess it’s a work in progress with Tanaka, Paxton and Happ out the door. Wayyyy too early to make pronouncements.
Underwhelmed?! Your comment list all credibility at that point, if it didn’t at albatross contract.
The white Sox rotation has a lot to prove. Cole did very well his first year(in a bandbox I may add). Sounds like a hater to me. I know you aren’t saying this, but I really hope you aren’t trying to say you’d rather have one of the unproven kids(with lots of potential I may add) over a proven commodity like GC. If you want to long term sign a real number one starter(something Sox don’t have, a bonafide ace), it costs a lot of money. No albatross, that’s just what the market is for an ace SP. so either you are hating on the Yankees or you have no clue about what an Ace SP costs. I find it funny everyone hates the Yankees for spending big on Cole but Washington can do it two or three times over(not 325 for one guy I know but add the big three up and it’s almost a half billion/over half billion). Deferred over a period longer than the planets have been around too I should add. But no hate for the way they sign guys. Strange. I guess committing half a billion to three guys is ok but don’t spend 325 on one of the, if not the best(top 3 arguably) pitcher in the game. I have learned from reading the comments section only the Yankees and angels can sign bad deals.
No New Yorker or homer here. Just a realist about the price of SP. Learn what supply and demand is. The demand for great SP is high, the supply is not. So the price is high. See how that works?
Anyone who actually thinks that Cole “underwhelmed” obviously is clueless.
Keuchel won the CYA. Giolito has placed 6th and 7th in CYA voting the last two years. Lynn 5th and 6th. If an ace is a guy good enough to be the top starter on at least half the teams in the league, each of those guys qualifies. Kopech, I’ll grant you, is unproven, but he has the potential to be the best of them.
Yeah I wouldn’t call that nasty but it’s solid
Define “ace.” Based on my definition, not even half the teams in baseball have an actual ace.
What the Sox do have right there is a couple guys that would be a #1 in a lot of rotations. If not #1, they’d be #2 in damn near any rotation. That’s good.
They also have a couple prospects with legitimate ace ceilings on the way in Kopech and Crochet. They’re in a really good spot.
Now here we go
Dunning has to be the one going back plus a smaller piece
Now it’s up to La Russia not to screw it all up. Man’s being given a gem of a club. Keep him away from the booze!!!
You know that’s not gonna happen. LaRussa is gonna have as much booze as he wants. To quote Carlito, “NO MATTER WHAT!.”
Love the quote my guy
I have a feeling LaRussa already hit up much of the roster trying to get them to make him a batch of Coquito, not caring it’s Puerto Rican and much of the roster is Cuban. The ice breakers are always so important.
Ducky Buckin Fent
That name sounds familiar. Ya know, there’s a Tony La Russa that’s has about 5(!) decades of experience playing, coaching, managing, & being an executive in MLB.
It’s actually a pretty impressive resume.
Which “La Russa” are you referring to?
The drunk guy
Ducky Buckin Fent
That’s one helluva witty retort! Do you work off a list or do you just simply spin that verbal magic out of thin air?
Either way it’s impressive man, serious.
Past success doesn’t guarantee future success by any means.
No it doesn’t but experience and success is much better than not having either. Much better.
Exactly, when a company looks to hire a new manager..Nine times out of ten, the guy with the best resume gets the job..
However, there does come a time, when the man with the most experience isnt necessarily the right man for the job. Sometimes with advances in technology, it is better to get someone that’s more familiar with how things are done now, than one that’s been out of the game for a minute..
Would that be like hiring Chris Young for GM vs hiring Tony LaRussa for manager?
Father Time undefeated and will come for us all. Connie Mack and Casey Stengel had similar resumes at the end.
Might be fine but I don’t think he’s right call at all for that team.
Cute response. Autocorrect was not my friend, but you came outta left field with your next level snark, and for what reason? We all know his resume, AND his two DUIs . . . so what’s your point chief?
Yeah, it’s pretty impressive that’s he’s in his mid 70’s and still getting DUI’s. That’s some strong dedication to the bottle. Well done Tony, role model for all who want to become an idiot drunk.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Valid point is valid. You’ve convinced me. I get it now. Those 2 dui’s should completely negate all of his past experience & success.
Except…well… they didn’t.
Jeeez. Now what?
Experience and resume matter so much, it’s why valentine was a resounding success in Boston….
Wait what? Did I say that? I was obviously being sarcastic, and commenting how strange it was that he was partying like a maniac so late in life. Now what?
Ducky Buckin Fent
Ya know…I’m not even sure why I’m defending the guy anymore? I’ve never held all that much of an opinion on him one way or another.
So I don’t even know, man.
As for “now what?” I do have a clear answer to that. Sunrise at 7:39. I’m going goose hunting. Now.
Oh, hey, good morning.
stan lee the manly
Not to defend DUIs because there are no excuses for them, but LaRussa was just barely over the legal limit when tested. That doesn’t really scream “partying like a maniac” when that could be as simple as the difference between having two and three beers with dinner.
50 years you said it. Hes old nothing in common with young players its ok they won’t win anything with him anyway.
Finally something!!! Wish it was the Jays but still!
Great move for the ChiSox!
stove is COOKIN
Dane Dunning, sounds like a good deal both ways
Yeah, seems like a good get for Texas
Wow. Solid win now move. Really nice trip to lead that rotation.
good move White Sox!!
I’m not sure “cornering the market” is appropriate- but you sure landed a great white shark !! Congrats!! I’m a Jays fan and had hoped that Lynn was on our radar but we’re slow on the draw!! That’s like securing a rear naked choke on a whimp- the grasp that you’ve got on the A.L. Central!!!
Wow! This is a huge addition for the White Sox. Now the free agent pitchers should start signing soon. I wonder who’s next? Would love to see Garret Richards land in Boston.
Now the question is what did the Rangers get?
I’m not sure “cornering the market” is appropriate- but you sure landed a great white shark !! Congrats!! I’m a Jays fan and had hoped that Lynn was on our radar but we’re slow on the draw!!
Chris Young is not even there for 5 minutes and already has more sense than Daniels. You have to trade your assets while you still have them, Jon. Not sit around and do nothing.
FATHER F TIME CHRIS YOUNG IS MY DAADYDYDYDYDYDY
WE JUST GOT DANE DUNNING HOLY FU
Chris Young putting his ivy league education to use .. joking aside … Both teams did very well .. With Lynn The Sox didn’t need Dunning anymore … and the Rangers get upside and pedigree for one year of Lynn … Young got that deal done in what 25 seconds as Texas GM? Why was it so hard for Daniels? I get Lynn had value as a teacher for the young pitchers … but get upside back and give Lynn a chance to win … not an “Ivy League” concept JD
Yeah, this was a really solid deal for the Rangers. You basically got pretty much what could be a pitcher just as good as Lynn, but younger ,cheaper, and for more years…Plus, the other prospect coming back to you guys..
Congrats on a great deal Rangers fans, and congrats tonwhite Sox fans as you guys got a proven vet for a title run this season..
As a Ranger fan I like this trade. Seems like people think Lynn is the second coming of Nolan Ryan. He was very good here but if the return is just decent the Rangers will have come out well.
For both teams I like this trade. The Rangers are not going anywhere and if it’s Dunning they get a pitcher with potential.
Flags fly forever and to get a top of the rotation starter for a starting pitcher with potential is the type of move you like contending teams to make.
It’s nice to have a real trade for a change that isn’t about the almighty buck.
Show of hands: How many of y’all are happy that I can move on from Lynn trade proposals now?
Please retire it lol
Ducky Buckin Fent
Is Dunning > Andujar?
Good trade for both clubs. Dunning is promising. And the Good Sox are now looking like a team in the AL to be reckoned with.
I’m happy though!
They also had a report that the 2nd prospect is a pitcher. I love it! I was ranting this morning about how 2021 needs to be dedicated to stockpiling pitchers. This is a huge step in that direction.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Yeah, I think the Rangers got a pretty good return, man. Good for them. Dunning is already in the bigs. No reason to mess around with service time with pitchers either.
God gives pitchers a finite amount of bullets. Why waste them in AAA? So you’ll get a chance to see him right away next season.
Pretty good old fashioned prospects for veteran trade. Hot stove might be getting going. I think a lot of clubs were waiting to see what would happen with Lynn before looking at free agents.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
I’d rather have Dunning over Andujar.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Good heavens, so would I, @mcgriff! & I’d definitely throw in more assets in *addition* to Andujar for Dunning.
Adjujar is not a good baseball player. He’s a DH that may be able to hit but likely will never be able to get on base.
He’s a dime a dozen.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
You can give some Gallo trade scenarios now.
No. I want to keep Gallo. Don’t jinx it. Lol.
Seriously, I want to extend Gallo, but that’s an entirely different matter,
Ducky Buckin Fent
Gallo is the guy I want on my squad. I kinda figured he’d be next to go? I’m not really basing that on anything though. Just pure supposition.
You are best trading him for prospect, By the time the Rangers are competitive, Gallo will be passed his prime.
Gallo to Atlanta lol
Seriously though, I know you love Gallo, but what would it take a team to at least make Texas interested in trading Gallo?
It’d have to start with Waters. Especially if Gallo jumps off to a 2019-esque hot start next season. That sounds like a lot, but it’s a great outfielder for a great outfielder prospect. I, personally, don’t want to trade Gallo because I don’t like the hole it would leave on the team.
Now that Lynn is gone who is the next Rangers player you’re gonna start bombarding us with hypothetical trades involving? lol
Well… Odor needs to leave somehow, either by trade (a depressing one) or just plain release. Other than that, since I don’t want Gallo gone… really nobody. Free agent time baby!
Rangers sign Lynn cheap, get CY performance and then get DD’s?
Personally Lynn is one of those guys I’ve never been able to trust very much.
To his credit he’s done well, though I’ve always viewed him as a guy pitching above his head. I feel like he’s a gamble waiting to blow up on someone one of these days.
Not hating, if he continues pitching strong he’s a great addition obviously. Just pointing out I’ve always been skeptical of him
It’s probably the beard and the bloated mountain man look. He looks like just came back from a month long camping trip each time he takes the mound.
And now the White Sox have two of them with Lance Lynn joining Dallas Keuchel. Maybe Rick Hahn trades for RF Charlie Blackmon and the White Sox could be ZZ Top.
I love this. Impact of Lynn on a rotation with Cease and Kopech could be a big deal. Dunning’s a significant piece to deal but this is a fine time and place to do it. It’s not like the Rangers were going to take Lopez or something.
Lynn is the perfect pitcher to teach both Kopech and Cease the value of throwing the fastball with movement … Really teach them that there’s no real need to try to be cute … Batters can know what’s coming and as long as it’s moving its harder to hit
That’s true to an extent, but both of those guys (especially Kopech) have great secondary stuff. Cease has a 70-grade fastball + a 65-grade curveball and Kopech has an 80 fastball and a 65 slider. They are nothing alike.
If they needed to learn to throw strikes and move the fastball around, they already have Keuchel on the roster.
Late night move!
Wow, this is a big move. I think the White Sox should’ve gone after Bauer, but Lynn is a really good top-of-the-rotation pitcher and could definitely help lead the White Sox to a championship. Now all they need is one more outfielder and a closer and then they will be loaded next year.
I think they should go after Springer, but apparently they don’t want to invest that type of money in a corner outfielder for whatever reason.
Springer would be a good addition, but I think they will probably focus on someone cheaper like Brantley or Rosario.
Springer would be great, but the Sox need a left-handed bat.
They need someone who can hit right handed pitching more than they need someone that can bat left handed. Go get Springer for RF and Scwharber for part time DH.
Bauer too. Its only $$$
Can you say James Shields 2.0? About the same age. Same bulldog mentality. About the same career ERA when they joined the White Sox
Dunning for Lynn is nowhere near the same deal as Tatis for Shields. That was a midseason deal, one day after Shields got lit up for 10 runs in 2+ innings. Lynn has been in AL top-3 for pitchers’ WAR in each of the past two seasons.
The comparison is not who was traded for the pitchers, its the two pitchers going to the White Sox.
Lynn was not in the top 10 in WAR for pitchers in 2020. He was not in 2018 either. He was in the top 10 in 2019, but that was the only time in his career.
Scroll back through the years.
AL… also most people prefer fangraphs when it comes to sabermetrics… BR is definitely not as good.
Yeah, I realized BR has some problems with their war when Austin Nola got 10 war back in 2018… He did have a good season, but it wasn’t close to being worth 10 war. Also, pitcher war is notorious for being less accurate than hitter war, so I don’t really pay much attention to pitcher war anyways.
Dunning for one year of Lynn? Yikes
Nooo… that’s a good thing… people said I was crazy for saying how much I thought Lynn would go for, yet here we are!!! lol
Dunning has upside potential and skills but let’s not act like hes the second coming … It was a good trade for both … Dunning is solid but it’s not like you got Greg Maddux 2.0 for Lynn
Exactly, I’m surprised at the amount of love Dunning is getting. I mean he has the potential to be a mid rotation guy if
things break right, but that’s it.. That has value for sure, but man people are jocking this guy hard.
@bush1, seriously why are people so thrilled about Dunning? He looks like he can be a solid mid-rotation pitcher in the future, but Lynn is great now and the White Sox have other prospects who have similar potential as Dunning.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
I’m not even a Rangers fan. 5 years of control with Dunning for 1 of Lynn is impressive. Especially considering the Rangers will do nothing spectacular in 2021.
I’m more of a high upside/higher risk prospect fan. But who knows what the market is right now, and Dunning is probably a fine get. I was just a bit shocked at how everyone loves him on here. The scouting reports are kinda blah at best. Not that those are always right.
No, but may have gotten 5 years of Lynn 2.0!
I think we like him because he’s the only prospect we had who threw more strikes than balls. Hyperbole, of course, but Cease killed the Sox with all the free passes he gave out. Lopez, too. I never saw Dunning as an ace, but I still think it’s a bit of an overpay giving up 5 years of him for one year of Lynn. If the Sox are making win-now moves, I really hope they get more aggressive in RF. I know the comments about not paying CF prices for a corner OF, but that’s just stupid. If they’re going to really go for it, they can’t take half measures. Springer puts them over the top; Rosario or Schwarber are definite improvements, but won’t vault them into the same ballpark as the Dodgers.
Meh. Dunning has potential but 35 innings is a real small sample size, against some of the dregs of the AL central. Hes just a guy
I think the White Sox overpaid here. Dunning has very high potential and is controllable for the next five years vs. one year of control for Lynn. I suggested a few days ago that the White Sox should trade Stiever and another secondary piece for Lynn, so obviously they gave up a bit more than I thought they’d have to in order to land him.
That being said, Giolito/Lynn/Keuchel is a potent top 3 going into next season, and it’s always possible they could add another starter via free agency.
Could the white sox potentially overpay on this? Yes. But Dunning is nothing but potential. While Lynn is a proven TOR commodity. Unless you’re happy stuck in rebuilding mode every year… you have to take these kinds of moves. Huge win for the sox here right now. In 4 or 5 years? Who knows.
Dunning is a steep price to pay. I wouldn’t like this deal from a fringe contender, but the White Sox are close enough that it works here. If the team is good enough on paper to have a legit WS chance, and I think they are, then a deal like this where you send 5 years of a probably good starter for 1 year of a great starter makes sense. They still need a solid RF though to really put themselves in prime position, but if they’re willing to do this then they should keep adding.
If this was like the Red Sox or Phillies, or some other team on the outside, then I think there’s too many holes to fill in order to justify it and they would be giving up too much value. The White Sox are like a piece away, so it’s not an overpay in their situation.
Overpaid Ban? I’m sure the Rangers asked for Kopech or Cease. Dunning is an easier piece to give up. And plenty of mediocre prospects have years “of control”. Who cares. Overall a solid post though, so don’t get me wrong.
Perhaps I’m a bit biased because I’ve always been a huge Dunning fan, but I think he has a higher ceiling than Stiever. He may lack the pure stuff of Cease or Kopech, but he’s much more polished than those two in my opinion, and could even end up being the most successful of the three. I probably would have given up Cease before Dunning.
And thanks for the compliment, I try!
@HBan22 Not sure that Stiever (Sox #7 prospect) is that different than Dunning (#5) as a trade chip. Your trade suggestion of Stiever plus another secondary piece is pretty close to what actually happened, depending on what the 2nd player was. Weems is really a throw-in, so Stiever + Kincannon or something is similar to this one, Dunning + non-top 30 prospect.
I actually see Stiever as having more potential than Dunning. Obviously, less experience, but better control. Time will tell how much of an overpay it was, but I agree with you on that point.
Starters are really coming off the board in both the trade and free agent market ….. the leftovers could get expensive.
I wonder how long before relievers start to move..
So adam eaton ended up turning into giolito lopez and lynn, pretty nice return
it goes farther actually. giolito and Lynn (lopez isn’t value) came from what originally was Hector Santiago.
And they got Hector back…eventually
Hector Santiago….and Drake Laroches innocence
DUNNING!! I LOVE THIS DEAL ALREADY
if Dunning can stay healthy that’s a great pickup
I liked what I saw from Dunning last year, so I’m disappointed the Sox traded him away. But I get that they needed to upgrade the rotation and Lynn was a very affordable way to do that for 2021. So it’s probably a fair deal.
Hopefully the fact that they went the least expensive route dollar-wise (for that level of pitcher) means that they’ll be able to spend on other upgrades at least at the level of Rosario/Pederson/Bradley (RF), Colome/Hand/Yates (closer), Casali (back-up catcher), and maybe another starter for depth (Quintana?). I’d love if they went deeper into their pocketbooks, but there are opportunities to improve the team without necessarily spending a ton of money.
Lance Lynn was really fun to watch as a Texas fan. He is probably a vigilante justice warrior who rides a Harley in his free time too, he just has that feeling about him. Great dude, always helping others on the team, and he’s not afraid to give his honest opinion about things.
People on here might think I hate the guy by how often I talked about trading him, but I really did like him. I just wanted to capitalize on his value, that’s a business matter, not a personal matter. Plus, by trading him now, he helps this team way more than he could’ve by staying here. This helps more.
Nice pick-up for the Chi-Sox. Just as long as he’s not going to the Yankees. I was scared, from the last time he pitched in NY.
I don’t like this deal. I would have rather offered both of Cease and Lopez and would have kept Dunning.
By far a better option!
I’m sure the White Sox would’ve preferred that deal too, but Lopez has no value and Cease isn’t worth what Dunning’s worth.
Actually, Cease has more upside than Dunning.
He did, for sure. But I’m not sure that’s still the case now. It’s debatable, I suppose.
Cease throws harder, but Dunning has pitched better. The velocity gives Cease his upside, but he hasn’t shown the ability to get consistent results, so he comes with more risk.
Upside means little if you can’t turn it into production. Look at Mazara. I get that Cease has time to develop and could make a Giolito-esque turnaround, but that’s certainly no guarantee.
Cease may have more upside, but I think Dunning will be more successful. He has command and throws strikes. Cease has a long ways to go before that can be said about him.
I’d like to think they talked to Katz about this before deciding which young pitchers were available. I’m hopeful he sees something in Cease that he thinks he can fix to get him on the right track.
@Priggs89, If they reach their full potential, Cease is better. He’s simply more talented. But I feel a bit jaded on calls like this because they probably asked Menechino if he could fix Mazara before they got him and he went on to have the worst season of his career.
I think you have to take 2020 numbers with a grain of salt. It was a weird, unprecedented season that affected everybody differently. JDM, Victor Robles, and Josh Bell were among the 5 worst position players in baseball. Javier Baez looked like a pitcher with a bat in his hands. Altuve and Hiura were significantly below league average at the plate. Arenado slashed .253/.303/.434. Yelich hit only 12% better than league average. I could keep finding examples, but I think it’s fairly obvious that it was just a weird season.
*And no, I’m not trying to say Mazara is/was ever good. I’m just saying I’m willing to chalk up his year to it being 2020.
That being said, even if we just assume Mazara is terrible now and ignore everything surrounding 2020, I am still 100% on board with getting the coach’s opinion before making moves, especially ones involving young players. They are the ones that get paid to actually develop these players, not the front office.
Cease may have a higher ceiling than Dunning, but he also has a much lower floor. Dunning is already looking like he’ll settle in as a very solid #3 type starter, whereas Cease could end up as a legitimate #2… or in the bullpen. He needs to learn how to throw strikes if he wants to be better than Dunning.
Cease struggled in 2020 but he’s clearly the higher rated prospect between him and Dunning.
He was the higher rated prospect, no doubt.
You lost me when you still had Keuchel as your #2.
This is a very solid move for the White Sox. It gives them a solidified starter who pitches 200 innings and has been consistently solid for many years. Not to mention he played under LaRussa.
Dunning is a stud but also carries a giant question mark, can he stay healthy is the highest concern. But for Texas and the Sox this is a move than benefits both needs. Especially when the Sox have Kopech, Steiver, Kelly, Crochet, cease, and Matthew Thomson. So giving up 1 top prospect for someone who can get the job done now, works in favor of the White Sox.
Spare Tire Dixon
That’s a nice rotation for Chicago.
I think the Sox should check on Realmuto next. Let JT and Grandal trade starts at C and DH to stay fresh. Let Engel have RF.
You posted that somewhere else and it makes as little sense here as there. They have Vaughn coming up to DH. If they’re not comfortable with him, Cruz is better as a DH and cheaper, plus won’t demand a long contract. There’s very little reason to have JTR on that team. Engel as a platoon option is fine, but only as a platoon or late-inning defensive replacement. If they want to give him regular playing time, they should get Pederson. If they’re not after Springer, though, I’d rather have Rosario or Schwarber.
rick hahn’s drunk.
This White Sox GM is off the charts good. Owners will be offering serious bling to this guy. And soon. Incredible job.
That Avery kid… he’s Baby-Bumgarner.
We have Baby-Bumgarner. He has that 3/4 style, his pitch selection is just like Bumgarner, and he’s lanky. Kinda low-key like the pickup…
More lefty arms doesn’t hurt.
I think a lot of Bumgarner’s results are due to some intimidation coming from his large mound presence. And fantastic control.
At Avery’s age, Bumgarner had 2 WS rings. Rare beast to be called up and succeed so early.
LHP college style that have made it since Bumgarner drafted, some a bit closer to Weems draft pedigree, Tony Watson, Justin Wilson, Dallas Keuchel, Aaron Loup, Matthew Boyd, Josh Osich, Travis Bergen, Devin Smeltzer, Josh Fleming, Nick Margevicius, Tarik Skubal
Compared with Bumgarner and the round 1/1S group from that timeframe (HS & College included): Price, Miley, Minor, Skaggs, Pomeranz, Sale, Fried, Heaney, Marco Gonzales, Manaea, Rodon, Freeland, Sheffield, Newcomb, Allard, Lauer, Kay, Puk, Peterson, Trevor Rogers, McClanahan, Bubic. Gore on the way.
Missed Snell. Probably others. Sorta quick compilation.
A chance Weems makes it. But a greater chance for Lodolo from his draft class. Always fun to see it play out. Hoping both make it.
Mostly hoping that Avery Weems’ cousin Randal doesn’t tell Miss Finster what mischief goes on at Recess.
6 years of control of Dunning + Weems for a single COVID season rental of Lynn. Lynn has been very good the last two seasons, hope he stays durable. Overall, I expect this trade to produce more value for the Rangers. WS or bust for the White Sox.
Next step of the Rangers off-season: Get rid of Odor.
Third step: Sign Kim.
Final step(s): Go get Walker or Sugano for the rotation, and Urena for the bullpen.
Let’s go Rangers!
‘Next step of the Rangers off-season: Get rid of Odor.’
Try a Glade Plug-in.
That Rick Hahn. Hes a baaad man!
dave frost nhlpa
I like how earlier in the day it was Lynn for Frazier and others. Gotta be kidding me.
i would easily take Dunning over Frazier. Frazier is a avg type of OF benefiting from playing in a ball park that plays smaller than my son’s T-ball field…
Nice get by Texas.
Overall, I like this trade. I was really interested in seeing how Dunning would develop but I suppose you have to give to get. My only concern is that I thought the rebuild was about acquiring and developing young talent for sustained success. I understand you can’t keep all prospects and rely on them to be all stars. I guess I’d feel better if Lynn had an extra year attached to him.
Still a nice trade for both sides.
Lynn’s contract makes this a garbage deal for the White Sox.
Lynn’s contract being only $9MM is what made it a deal for the White Sox! Covid losses are making the white Sox frugal. Their time is now, but now is not a great time to be spending if you’re a business.
IT’S A 1-YR CONTRACT! DUNN IS WORTH MORE THAN THAT. LYNN WILL BE BACK IN A RANGERS (or ANGELS). UNI BY 2022!
AND YOUR BUSINESS KNOWLEDGE IS HORSES***. WITH A REGIME CHANGE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND MULTIPLE VACCINES ON THE WAY, THIS IS PRECISELY THE TIME TO INVEST.
True, yet Reinsdorf is a billionaire near the end of his life. When you die, what does it matter whether you have 1.5 billion or 1.4? He can’t take a cent with him. The kinds of losses billionaires experience in this time are meaningless. And absolutely pitiful to be used as a justification for someone like Reinsdorf not to spend. He has owned two Chicago sports franchises for 80 seasons, and has delivered one championship that was not the result of winning the lottery with Jordan.
In the long run, Rangers won this one big time.
It’s not the Frank Robinson trade.
Basically the White Sox traded away Dunning who was projected to be no more than a third starter in a pitching rotation for a proven third starter like Lynn.
For those of you who have loved baseball as long as I have … it’s sad when a 3.57 ERA is referred to as terrific. Our pitching standards have went down substantially… I think serviceable , decent , steady, fair … in my opinion would be more in line , not terrific. Pitching in general has changed so much with pitch counts … quality starts .. people are getting paid millions because they can pitch 6 innings and only give up a few runs. Wow how things have changed.
Years ago, a pitcher named Claude Osteen was appreciated quite a bit. He had 11 straight 200+ innings seasons. Lifetime ERA of 3.30, nothing fancy. 196-195 record. 14 straight seasons of double digit losses. Traded for Frank Howard and Jim Wynn.
I’m not saying that Lance Lynn is Claude Osteen. What I am saying is that a lot of fans have failed to see the value in a pitcher who takes the ball for turn after turn, year after year, and keeps your team in the game.
Lynn had a 2-3 bad outings toward the end of the season that hurt the ERA.
Lynn was our current version of Colby Lewis – mad-dog mentality and will never give in!
Really hate to see him leave Texas but he would have wasted away here.
Literally every team in the majors would love to have a guy who pitches 6 innings every start with a 3.57 ERA.
I know Cole starts don’t mean a thing, but Weems had a 7+ era and still got drafted in the 6th round. Just crazy
This is only a good deal for the Sox in name/splash/get their fans excited value. Unless Lynn throws up a Cy Young caliber season and the White Sox win the World Series this will look dumb as early as 2022. Even if Dunning is an average pitcher over the next 5 years they’ll still wish they had him. Great deal for Texas.
As a Rangers fan, I’m loving this deal! That said, I think ChiSox fans should be pretty thrilled, as well. Lynn is a old-school innings eater, and a great guy to have in a clubhouse loaded with young talent. Every young pitcher on that staff will benefit from having Lynn on the team.
I like Dunning, but you have to give to get. There’s room for improvement, but even if his ERA stays where it is, that’s plenty valuable to any team.
Lance Lynn was a hot name at the trading deadline last summer including rumors about a deal with the White Sox. Wonder what the asking price was then vs now? I like Dunning a lot but Sox needed a sure thing. Would have liked Lynn in Game 3 vs Oakland.
The Sox would probably have needed to add Stiever, but I think Daniels was looking for a top 100 prospect.
1st, this is what it took to get him? The Braves couldn’t do this during the season??? What a joke AA. What a freaking JOKE!!
2nd, the Nats go taken to the bank in that Eaton deal. The Sox flipping Dunning for Lynn just made that deal even better for the Sox. Nice work there. Got to tip your hat to that
But what would the Braves offer? Kyle Wright and Bryse Wilson are not nearly as valuable as Dunning at this point. The Rangers probably wanted Ian Anderson for Lynn last summer.
Saying Wright and Wilson aren’t as valuable as Dunning is quite laughable. Maybe, just maybe Wilson isn’t. But then again, he looked like cy young against the Dodgers, one of the best teams in the history of baseball
Hate this deal. Trading prospects for rentals is something a contender should do at the end of their window, not the beginning. Not saying Dunning is a ToR starter, but trading him *and* having to send another pitcher back? Please tell me the other pitcher is not named Stiever, Kelly, or Crochet.
I don’t hate the deal, but I agree with your point. If Lynn helps them win a ring then it won’t matter to me. And if they resign him and get multiple years of quality production out of him, I’ll be ok with that too. But I do hope that they rely more on FA acquisitions moving forward to supplement this roster, rather than trading too many prospects away.
I’m thinking it is just the opposite. When you get to the point where you are making a run, that’s the time to go over the top. Once the run starts to end, that’s when you start keeping your prospects and trading your vets.
@JoeBrady I’m with you on this one. When the window is opening up is when they should be acquiring pieces to get them over the top. They can also afford to do that at the beginning of the window because they have young talent locked up on cheap deals.
If they were at the end of the window and their star players cost 3 or 4 times as much and were about to hit FA, then they would need to horde prospects in order to replace that production and offload expensive vets to free up salary to sign other contributors.
A perfect example of this right now is the Cubs since their window is shutting right now. Baez, Bryant, Rizzo all in walk years and they already had to shed Schwarber’s salary. If they trade prospects for rentals they’re going to be in big trouble the next few years after they lose that FA class.
I’d feel much better about the trade if Lynn had another year left. I know the return would go up a bit, but why couldn’t they have gotten Gray instead? The Reds are looking to slash costs and take subpar returns. Those two for Gray, I would have had no problem with, even if another lesser prospect had to be included.
@hyrax I totally agree. Reeks of being cheap. They prefer to trade young talent than spend money in free agency. Pretty simple.
We’ll see if that rings true. They have 37 million coming off the books. Either they spend, or we’ll know the above is the real motivation for the trade.
The Winter Meetings heated up on day one and with been virtually.
Perhaps he’ll sign an extension with the Sox.
This Ranger move is the exact type of trade DET still needs to be seeking out. Leave no stone unturned! Nice trade!
If Lynn has a good year then it’s a good trade for the Sox. If he underperforms or gets injured then it will be like the Quintana trade for the Cubs. They gave up Eloy because Q was supposed to improve the 2016 team. Q was decent but we expected more.
It’s true that Lance Lynn will need to produce for this trade to work out for the White Sox, perhaps even including a 2021 championship as a prerequisite. That said, I don’t equate the loss of Dane Dunning on a par with the prospect package the Cubs gave up for Jose Quintana at the 2017 summer trade deadline. Dunning is a MLB ready talent with 6 more years of control but just entered the top-100 prospect list for the first time after his nice, abbreviated debut in 2020. Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease were each top-100 prospects back in July of 2017 with the former also being in the upper echelons of the rankings.
This is the way to do it. Cincy and Philly annoy me. The had some half-assed rebuild, where they then traded off prospects before they were in position to compete. Particularly Cincy, who traded Gray and Downs when they were a 67-win team headed to 75-win team. Now both are laboring under financial constraints, without having seriously competed.
The WS, OTOH, played .583, and now are a legit candidate to come in 1st and beyond. This is the time to make the over-the-top move.
I thought the Rangers screwed up and held on to Lynn for too long, but Dunning is a great return for one year of him.
Well that was an interesting plot twist as to why Lynn wasn’t traded at the deadline. Used it as leverage. Makes significantly more sense than the thought that nobody was willing to give up a good package, makes you wonder which teams was he try to steer himself away from.
Dane Dunning is trash on MLB the show
Great representation of real life.
Great trade, both teams got what they neeeded. Lynn has been an innings eater and Lynn has been the 8th best pitcher since 2018 to present. The Rangers need to rebuild and young pitching is hard to get, so I like this deal!
I’m loving this trade for Chitown!
Get rid of the softball players
Gallo is the ultimate softball player
He should be playing in a Wednesday or Friday night beer league
Good move by the White Sox. I like it. Now “Just Win Baby”
Buyer Beware – last time Lance Lynn pitched in the AL central his stat line….8-7 5.10 era. I think sox fans are setting themselves up for disappointment.
This move looks more like JR wanting a short-sighted lower salary solution to address the need in lieu of spending on FA or taking on a pricier existing starter multi-year contract in trade. Wouldn’t be surprised if Dunning is better than Lynn as soon as this year. Agree wholeheartedly with getting a starter, but not the method nor rental aspect. Katz……their best/excellent offseason hire…. will have to earn his money improving the 4th/5th starter spots since Dunning was a more reliable pitcher (though not upside) than erratic Cease and flaky Kopech.
@cwsascension Exactly. They prefer to trade young talent to spending in FA. Pretty simple, and the word that describes the type of owner Reinsdorf has always been is cheap. He has delivered one championship in 80 seasons of ownership that was not the result of winning the lottery with Jordan.
The payroll of this team is not close to what it was when they had absolutely pitiful teams in 2015 and 2016. They are not going to win a World Series acting like a small market team, making trades like this and pinning their hopes on cheap players performing like top tier guys. We’ll see what they do the rest of the offseason.
Solid trade for both teams. The AL central is wide open for the taking. Push in the chips and go for it or stock pile mediocre prospects and lose every year.
With the Twins losing relievers and their DH and having to fill in a chunk of their rotation, not to mention hoping their OF prospects fill in well enough for Rosario, I think the Twins take a step back next year. If Lewis, Kiriloff, et al, are as good as advertised, they’ll be back soon, but with their changes and the Indians very likely getting rid of Lindor, the Sox should have little trouble winning the division, barring injuries.
This looks like a win-win from the outset.
The White Sox get a good, dependable veteran to plug into the top 3 of the rotation. They are a team that is now in their window.
The Rangers shed payroll now and get a young pitcher, with some upside in Dunning and another prospect.
If Kopech is healthy I can see the White Sox trying to package him for a #1 or #2 starter. Give them a RF and one more dominant arm and they are going to be tough to beat.
One of my fellow writers at Max’s Sporting Studio further analyzed the trade:
Deal makes sense on both side. Dunning is at best a 3-4 starter who throw 90-93 and biggest asset is control. CWS get a proven starter workhorse only downside is mileage on the arm. I’m going to assume CWS will wait to see which Kopech/Crochet takes the other starter position and which one becomes a closer.
One year of Lynn is not enough for Dunning. 2-3 years, then yes. Someone stated it perfectly, this is the type of move you make at the end of your window, not the beginning.
I have a feeling like others have pointed out that this is all basically a reflection of Reinsdorf continuing to show himself as a cheap owner without fail. Trade young talent rather than spend money in free agency.
They have 37 million coming off the books, and a payroll nowhere near where it was even in 2015/2016 when they had absolutely miserable teams. If they don’t have any willingness to approach that level of spending again, this rebuild is basically a scam. They are not going to win a WS with a sub-100 million dollar payroll.
Too early in the offseason to pass judgement, but recall the “success” of their offseason last year. Grandal and Keuchel were the only gets that were not total disasters. Encarnacion, Mazara, Cishek, Gio Gonzalez, all beyond terrible. We will see what they wind up doing, this is hardly a move to get people excited about if they don’t make several key signings without trading anyone else.
So both their long term deals worked out well, but they missed on their 1 year flyer deals? That still sounds like a successful offseason…
But you’re right, it’s too early to judge. If they do nothing else of note, this trade will be questionable at best. If they are able to add a legitimate threat in RF and add to the bullpen because Lynn is only making ~$8m, this is a fantastic trade.
Priggs: if the ‘bargain’ Lynn salary sacrifice of Dunning means they shockingly reverse course and sign Springer, that is phenomenal. If they get platoon Joc, injury prone Brantley or some other defensively challenged stopgap as their other key move, that is tough.
Lynn is 33 years old, and one year away from free agency.
This means he’s looking for a longterm deal in 2022.
The Sox will have to offer a 34 year old #3 pitcher 3 yrs/$50MMish to resign. This is why the trade is bad for the White Sox.
If they’re willing to move top prospects, it should be for elite players with more than a year left on their contract.
And let’s be real here, Dunning is an MLB-ready #3/#4 starter on most ballclubs.
The only this trade works is if the Sox get to the WS in 2021.
I don’t think they’ll re-sign him. But I agree, I would have rather they’d gone after Gray or Wheeler if they’re giving up trade capital. Both would have cost more, but I think they could have kept Kopech and Vaughn in either case.
Unless they got a divorce, I think the Wheeler family made it abundantly clear that they do not want to be in Chicago when they turned down more money to play for the Phillies.
He doesn’t have an NTC, so that’s not a roadblock. It’s one of the downsides of a contract.
But ChiSox Dunning was NOT an elite prospect
FG has him as a 45 FV with a 90-93/94 FB. I like the return for Texas, because bad teams need #4 SPs. But teams like the WS are a good team, and another 6-year #4 is not vital, at this time.
ChiSoxCity, Dunning throws low 90s in his mid-20s. He is a control guy who might be a 4th or 5th starter. Elite guys with years of control like Blake Snell would have meant Kopech, Vaugn, and someone like Stiever. This is the type of deal you have to do to get over the top. The Sox have Kopech, Cease, Stiver, and Lopez (if you count him) for 2 spots in the rotation. I like the chances that 2 of those guys take a step forward this year under Katz.
In truth, you really only need one of those guys to take a step forward. A playoff rotation is 4 guys and the Sox, as currently constructed, should certainly be a playoff team, especially when Cleveland trades Lindor and the A’s lose Semien. Having a good #5 is just a bonus at that point.
Of course, most teams need to be blessed by the baseball gods to have their opening day starting rotation intact come playoff time. That is why I expect the White Sox to add an additional veteran SP to their mix this offseason, perhaps another fan favorite in Jose Quintana who would join just signed FA Adam Eaton on the southside in 2021.
Q is awful.
I don’t want Q back. If we knew we were getting the Q of old, sure, that’s a great add; unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. Tanaka is going to be more expensive, but has good playoff experience and has been pretty consistently good throughout his career. Not as durable, I know, but much better of late.
Maddux, Kyle Hendricks, …
The White Sox just became one of the three most interesting teams to watch for me because of their rotation. They don’t YET have a clear ace that would be considered an ace on any team. They do have a stable full of 2’s and 3’s, though, giving them a whole lot of depth.
The White Sox are built to challenge the notion that you absolutely must have at least one Gerrit Cole or a Shane Bieber type at the top of your rotation to win the world series. Or perhaps Giolito will take another step forward and the notion will get further support.
I think Giolito is up to the challenge. He damn near matched Bieber pitch for pitch the 2 times they went head to head last year, and in his first (and only) career playoff start, he was practically unhittable for 7 innings. Hopefully he gets more opportunities to pitch in the playoffs in 2021.
I mean, Gio did get close to a Cy Young in 2019. While 2020 wasn’t ideal, it wasn’t *that* bad either; it’s very possible for him to hit full Ace status in 2020.
I think every team would *like* to have a proven ace at the top, but three very solid starters at the top all of whom you’d expect to be able to compete with top playoff teams seem sufficient.
At this point, I don’t think they have any more changes to make on the pitching side other than a couple of midlevel RP signings perhaps. The question is the bats – do their young bats step up this year (particularly Roberts and Madrigal), or do they really need one more very good bat for consistency? I think an Eaton/Engel platoon is sufficient in RF if Roberts and Madrigal step up, and Jimenez and Anderson keep up their 2020 levels, but if they don’t, the Sox are a bat short.
Giolitto is an ace…. coming off a great season he follows it up with a no hitter and an outstanding playoff debut…. He is an ace…. in his prime
His run prevention looks more like a no.2
By definition, only one guy in baseball would be considered the top guy on any given team. I mean, if you had Bieber, deGrom, and Bauer all on the same team, one of them is your #1. It’s an awfully strict definition of ace. Mine is a little looser: a guy who would be #1 on at least half the teams in baseball. Under that definition, Giolito qualifies.
Spare Tire Dixon
Lynn and Eaton. Next a closer, right? Maybe they just re-up with Colome.
And if not Hendriks, Hand before Colome.
BHAM! Big, Harry, Audacious Move by Chisox. BHA beard, too.
The White Sox and Royals appear to be putting pressure on the Indians and Twins. Indians have solid starting pitching but now have a huge hole in the back end of the bullpen and are at best offensively suspect at the moment. Twins find now need three starting pitchers, bullpen help, and may lose Cruz. The AL Central is now wide open
Royals are probably two years away. It’s what makes the signing of Santana curious. They certainly have some talent, but not enough to challenge for the division yet.
I like it. If he does well, extend him. I like Dunning a lot, but we need a solid Top 3 and now we got them, with Cease and Kopech on the back end, our rotation is set. Lopey can move to the pen, but I still think Lopez or Kopech may both be closer material when things shake out. We’ll see.
“If he does well, extend him.”
Doesn’t Lynn have a say in that?