The Phillies’ most recent offer to J.T. Realmuto is “believed” to be about $110MM, tweets MLB Network’s Jon Heyman. Jayson Stark of The Athletic reported last Friday that the Phils had recently put forth a new five-year offer worth “slightly” more than $100MM. It’s not clear whether that’ll get the job done, as Realmuto has reportedly been intent on setting a new record for average annual value among catchers — currently held by former Twins star Joe Mauer ($23MM).
Still, the Phillies’ chances have to be considered vastly improved from where they stood early in free agency. The Mets have inked James McCann on a surprising four-year deal, while other potential Realmuto suitors have spent heavily in other areas. Toronto agreed to a six-year deal with George Springer. The Nats have made several mid-tier additions (Josh Bell, Kyle Schwarber, Jon Lester). The Angels, too, have gone that route with Jose Quintana, Raisel Iglesias, Jose Iglesias and a new catcher of their own, Kurt Suzuki. Others could certainly enter the bidding, or one of those suitors could yet find room for Realmuto, but the Phillies have to be encouraged by how the market has panned out thus far.
A few more notes out of Philly…
- The Phillies were in attendance yesterday when right-handers Julio Teheran and Anibal Sanchez threw for teams, Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia reports. Either hurler would give the Phils some needed depth at the back of the rotation, and neither would be expensive after struggling through poor 2020 seasons. President of baseball ops Dave Dombrowski yesterday suggested he’s still on the hunt for rotation depth and could find some via minor league deals with non-roster invites to Spring Training. Sanchez has revitalized his career after one non-guaranteed deal already and could be forced to do so again. Teheran, though, won’t turn 30 until next week and was a perfectly serviceable starter as recently as 2018-19. It’s at least worth noting that Dombrowski, while serving as Tigers GM, acquired Sanchez from the Marlins and re-signed him to a five-year, $80MM contract that offseason.
- Odubel Herrera is no longer on the Phillies’ 40-man roster but remains with the organization under the five-year, $30.5MM contract he signed back in December of 2016. Herrera hasn’t played in the Majors since receiving an 85-game suspension under Major League Baseball’s domestic violence policy, though, and Dombrowski did little when speaking to reporters this week to indicate that Herrera has a chance of returning (link via Todd Zolecki of MLB.com). “We’re still in a position where we are discussing that internally,” said Dombrowski. While he noted that Herrera has gone to counseling, Dombrowski would only state that Herrera’s status is something the club will “continue to talk through from an internal perspective.” Herrera’s contract expires at season’s end.
Dumpster diving Dombro? That ain’t right. Go get Realmuto back, and quit wasting your time with AAAA pitchers like Teheran and Sanchez. If you want pitchers, there are still plenty of high-reward guys on the market like Williams and then more stable ones like Hamels. Go get those guys instead of the thrice failed options that you’ve inquired about previously. Sanchez could be an okay 5, but Teheran is fool’s gold each year.
Sad to say, but Teheran and Sanchez are light years better than Velazquez. Spencer Howard is going to be solid, but he needs some more time to develop. If the Phillies want JT, they may need to dumpster dive to fill out the bottom of the rotation.
I was disappointed to hear that Velasquez was offered arbitration. He has a long track record of a below average pitcher and the depth of relievers in free-agency is particularly deep.
@stevetampa — Yeah, but remember his 2nd start as a Phillie in 2016 when he pitched a 3-hit complete game shutout with 16 strikeouts and no walks? That was awesome.
A whole mediocre career kept alive by one great game.
It’s a joke my man, relax
I watched that game. Velazquez looked like he was about to embark on a HOF career. Looked like a tall Pedro Martinez.
VV should have been moved to the bullpen two years ago.I think that he would be a good addition now,as DD seems to be adding enough arms that some of them should work out well.VV would have made it by now as a starter if he was destined to be one.Too much up and down,mostly down,as a starter so what do they have to lose?
Yeah but can Teheran and Sanchez make a diving catch/putouts to home from left field? Maybe but I have yet to see it!
fwiw VV should move back to HS. he played there in HS and still has nice speed and a great throwing arm.
This isn’t even a joke, there’s so many acronyms that I do not understand your post. Do you want people to understand your posts? Just type out the words. Why is it even the dumbest posters here still manage that much. But you can’t? Why? Laziness? Do you think it’s cute?
Unless the Phil’s plan on spending more than I expect I don’t see JTR as a good fit. If signing him means you have to run it back without fixing the pitching issues then you can probably expect the same issues.
Market is in Philly’s favor. I think JT could get by with $110M.. As a Marlins fan, I’d love to see the Phillies sign Anibal AND Teheran.
And Folty too.
Sign Him!
5./$110m is a screaming deal for the best catcher in the game who’s only 29. If the Phils get him for that, that’s the deal of the off-season. Can’t imagine some organization which otherwise wasn’t planning on spending doesn’t see that and ups the ante just because it’s such a bargain.
$22 million per for JT isn’t that much of a bargain. He may be the best catcher in the game but his overall value outside of that context is rather overblown.
That … is how you judge value, exactly. By supply and demand.
Only if there are multiple teams vying to possess “the best catcher in baseball”. That doesn’t seem to be the case. Teams aren’t buying the idea that he adds value worth his asking price. Seems like they figure that at that cost, they’d rather go with a low value catcher like most the rest of the league, and spend that money on a position where the overall value expectations are higher than what JT brings. In that case, his standing as the top catcher means little, he just is what his WAR says he is, so to speak.
The Mets would have been better off waiting to land Realmuto at 5/110. McCann should not be an everyday catcher, which will be apparent to them eventually. That said, he still improves them, so no loss outside of the lost opportunity for them to add the best catcher in the game. The difference in the $12M AAV is well worth it. Guaranteed production vs. a catcher who still has question marks.
Realmuto wouldn’t be this cheap if they were waiting. If anything,the move could be to sign McCann and lower the market for Realmuto, then swoop in and get him at the lower price.
I don’t think they’re doing this, but it’s not totally crazy.
He was looking for 150, and now they can have both guys for that price.
McCann is most definitely a starting C. Calls a.good game, excellent blocker of balls in the dirt, strong throwing arm, can hit. What are you looking for?
JT’s camp has been reported to be asking nearly $200M. I don’t foresee that gap being bridged, even if the numbers are off a bit, say, at $175M.
He’s going to ask for a lot and I don’t anticipate he will settle for less than Springer, now that his agreement has been reached.
Can’t help but wonder if the Phillies are just bidding against themselves with JT? Going down the list of teams it is hard to find other suitors who need a catcher, are trying to compete and are actually spending money this year.
J T is better than the other 29 catchers in the game, so all the rest would be better with him
I sincerely doubt there are any other suitors. I would love to see Philly tell him the offer drops by $10MM every week he waits. Either he wants to play in Philly or he doesn’t. They are offering to make him the highest paid C in the game, when no-one else is bidding! No reason to offer more.
you don’t know that..
Don’t listen to this guy. He think that pitcher wins and losses are important stats.
There are literally 30 teams (all of ’em!) for whom JT would be an improvement. Even if they have a good catcher they can certainly cash that guy in for a pitcher or whatever else they need, should they sign JT. At $22m, someone’s gonna give away a guy just to clear space to go after Realmuto. Or the Dodgers or someone else who have the money but don’t really want to spend it could jump in (they could turn Will Smith into an ace probably).
Nationals come to mind. And Cardinals.
Neither would go over $100 million. They’re both crying poor, and wouldn’t touch him at that price.
Nats haven’t spent much so far. 10M for Schwarber, 4M for Bell and Lester each. Still about $25M under lux, I think. They can do JTR if they want.
The Nationals need one more OF, a Third Baseman to compete with Kieboom (or a Second Baseman if they put Castro at 3B) and at least one more bench piece. While they will need a Catcher to replace Suzuki (unless they go with Welington Castillo) the Nats still have other needs.
If I remember right their contracts for Scherzer and strasburg are deferred. They can probably give jt 25mm for this season, but in a year or two it will really hamstring them.
Why didn’t Toronto spend 120-140 mil on JT instead of 150 on Springer? Then trade one of the current catchers for pitching.
Because Realmuto doesn’t make a pitching staff better and has already shown early in his career that when the going gets tough he will make it known he wants out. He’d do that in Toronto. Springer plays to win, Realmuto plays for a paycheck.
Don’t fool yourself. Everyone plays for a paycheck. Realmuto played hard in Miami and Philly. Yes. He wants to get paid. Everyone does, but he gives his all.
Nobody is being fooled except for those believing Realmuto is a gamechanger. He’s really not. You didn’t refute the fact that he doesn’t help the pitching staff. I also failed to mention that Realmuto claimed he was open to an extension with Philly but chose not to sign. I suppose this is his 2nd unhappy stop and is willing to re-sign because Philly will shell out the cash. Sorry, I’ll take my chances with Springer over Realmuto.
You’re honestly the first and only person I’ve heard criticize JTR. I can’t imagine wanting Springer over Realmuto. And I like Springer a lot.
Depends on a team’s needs. Need a catcher? It’s JT. A CFr? Springer…. Springer will probably add more overall value… JT is bolstered because the state of the rest of MLB catching is mostly bleh right now.
Very true Cozmo!
I just think of previous/current OF contracts like JDM, Upton, Heyward, Cespedes, Blackmon, Hicks, and Fowler ext.. makes me a little nervous. IMO, JTR is entering his prime, where Springer is closer to the regression years. (Of course-that’s purely debatable)
His defensive numbers are great. His framing numbers are great. He controls a running game. and he is the best offensive catcher in the game.
He said he was open to an extension, not desperate to stay with an organization. You ever left a company to work for another because they offered more money? It would be ridiculous to expect you to “be loyal to your company” if they wont pay you your market value.
How come everyone calls Springer a center fielder when he’s only played half his games there?
You’re pretty disconnected. These players get a ton of pressure from their union to raise the bar. Its why Grandal did what he did, and its why Realmuto is waiting for a deal that raises the bar further for catchers. These guys believe in helping those who come behind them just as much as themselves.
“Just as much as themselves?” You are “disconnected.”
Thank you for this world shattering comment.
I think all his talk about wanting to raise the bar for future catchers is just an attempt to make it seem like he is on some noble quest, as opposed to just wanting more money. He need not have bothered. There is nothing wrong with just saying he wants XXXX dollars for himself, without trying to make it sound like it is about doing right for generations unborn.
Tidybowlman , Springer is called a CFr because he can play CF. The standard is basically, can you handle the position without hurting your team. Once that’s established, having any bat whatsoever boosts the value. Such is the state of CF in MLB today. Most that can field the position can’t hit. Springer can field the position and he hits very well. That makes him a prime CFr. Now, how long til he ages off the position?
@nebraska
He’s a FA! Highest bid is market value. Philly offering to make him the highest paid player at his position. Sorry he feels he is not getting enough. Tyler Flowers would be happy to sign, and then talk to Bauer with the JTR money.
you continue to post that crappola, and it is blatantly untrue
Springer fills a need for Toronto. JTR causes an excess, forcing a trade of a player who won’t return much. Kirk was rushed and has playing shape questions, and the others haven’t hit. OFs age better than Cs.
Joe Mauer got 8 years at 23 million annually coming of a recent MVP season. Realmuto is a perennial GG catcher who also had an MVP-like season but is a little older than when Mauer got his contract.
I think 6 years and 150 million (around what Springer got), would be fair for him and on point with his value.
He’s not getting 6 years 150 in this current market.
A. Mauer was way better than JT is now… B. Mauer’s contract turned out to be awful for the team
That contract didn’t age well once he became a dh/1st baseman
As a pure hitter yes. Defensively JT is better and doesn’t come with the concussion and injury issues. The long term outlook is better for JT than it was for Maurer at the time of his contract signing.
Who is giving that to him though? Right now it’s a one horse race with only the Phillies at the starting line. They made their offer, they are not going to add $40 million to it when it seems like no one else is bidding just to make sure the union is happy and he gets a deal like Springer’s
I could see a lot of teams jumping in. Nationals, Angels, Yankees (if they get creative), Blue Jays (who don’t necessarily have a need but could definitely jump in for an upgrade).
History has shown elite players get paid and “surprise” teams do pop up.
Angels aren’t in. They need to add at least one more starter, another Outfielder to at least platoon in RF, and possibly give Ohtani a significant salary increase in arbitration.
Yankees had to stretch LeMahieu’s deal over six years to keep cost down. And also added Kluber. There’s no getting “creative” here
Blue Jays could be possible but also need SP/RP help
Nationals could be possible but unlikely they sign a big money contract with Scherzer and Turner coming up and an eventual extension for Soto
False. Realmuto is not a perennial GG catcher. He has one GG, which came in 2019. Also, he has never had an MVP-like season. His only Top 20 finish was also in 2019 when he placed #14. That is not an MVP-calibre season. Don’t make stuff up and expect not to be called out on it.
BTW, Joe Mauer won three consecutive GGs and finished 8th or higher in the MVP voting four times. Check all the numbers like WAR and OPS+ and you’ll find that Realmuto isn’t close to being in Mauer’s league.
Just a quick comparison using fWAR
Mauer’s fWAR the 3 years leading up to the contract: 6.4, 8.4, 5.7 = 20.5
JT’s 2017-2019 if you don’t want to count 2020: 4.4, 4.9, 5.7 = 15
JT’s 2018-2020 (2020 prorated to 568 abs): 4.9, 5.7, 5 = 15.6
Mauer: “with the boomstick”
Looks like the Phillies could get Realmuto and Gregorius back given how the market is playing out.
And if that 23 AAV is a sticking point for Realmuto, 5/116 or thereabouts should get it done.
If I’m JTR I refuse anything less than 125 million guaranteed. And take a 1 year 25 million deal if anything. He should not get less than 6 years in a deal around 24-25 million annually.
You have to understand this is a pandemic-effected market. Things are different. Also a 30+ catcher taking a 1 year deal is way too risky.
He’s not taking a 1 year deal. 5/115-120 is where it will most likely land
This “pandemic affected” market is just fine if you ask me… Springer got a 6 year deal at 150 million at age 30. Dj Lemahieu got 6 years 90 million at age 32 and Liam Hendricks got 54 million for 3 years. All those guys are in there 30s. And all those contracts meet their value in my opinion.
I do honestly think JTR he ends up around 6 years, 135 million. If Springer got 150 million, JTR deserves something close to that number. DJ and Springer both got 6 years, I guarantee you Realmuto gets 6 as well. All star catchers are more rare than all star outfielders.
All of those contracts are over pays to get them done, in both years and money. There’s still 2/3 of the market left with a month ago
JT doesn’t appear to have enough suitors to drive up the price that high.
Nobody deserves anything
This is a free market
We gotta leave the “feelings” outta this
Prediction – He gets paid by whoever will pay him the most- Ive been saying Philly since day 1 , still think thats the case
Hendriks seems like a massive overpay considering you could of had the next 3 best relief pitchers for similar guaranteed money.
The top players were always going to be paid, pandemic or not. Maybe not at ridiculous levels, but paid well. It’s the mid-range and lower that saw the market drop out.
Just because it doesn’t appear like he has many suitors doesn’t mean someone will jump in to overpay him. Look at the Springer market. Mets were offering 125 million. He ended up getting 150 because one team jumped in motivated to get a deal done.
@stretch
Springer was always Toronto’s top target. They did not just “jump in”!
No. If you were JTR, you’d take the multi-year, guaranteed, 100M+ offer. He’s a 30-year-old catcher, entering an age when he will soon start trending down. It’s not a question of if he’s signing a $100M+ contract. It’s now simply a question of how much over $100M he’ll get and with who.
Lot of risk if you have a bad season. He could go from a guaranteed 110 to a McCann deal quickly
He should absolutely not take a 1-year deal even for $30M. One unfortunate concussion/injury will crater his long-term value. His stock is the highest right now.
Why would JTR take a one year deal? His stock is at its peak now. Literally the only thing that could help his market next year is not having a QO attached. He’d still be a year older and runs the risk of getting injured or struggling in 2021.
Minor detail: That Mauer contract didn’t work out so well.
Mauer is not Realmuto. Realmuto has speed, is better defensively, and has more power than Mauer.
Mauer was 10x better then Realmuto in his prime. Best hitting catcher I’ve ever seen
Mike Piazza was best hitting catcher I ever saw, but Mauer was amazing in his prime.
@Mike Piazza was barely a catcher though. I know he spent his career there, but he wasn’t great defensively and couldn’t throw runners out. He was just such an amazing hitter. Like unbelievably good.
It would have been more believable if you had seen the inside of his medicine cabinet.
@lolmutz i don’t know. i never really believed that. i guess everyone in that era will forever be suspected.
Sure, I see what you mean. Santa Claus COULD be real too!
Johnny Bench? How about Yogi Berra? Can you imagine what they would get in today’s market?
Mauer was an exceptional defensive catcher. Better than Realmuto, who is good, but not in Mauer’s class. He moved off the position due to a concussion. Occupational hazard. Mauer will make the HOF. Nothing in Realmuto’s career says he’s a HOFer to date. I like Realmuto. He is the best catcher in the game today and hope he gets as much money as he can, but he is not Mauer.
Of concern to anyone signing Realmuto is Mauer started his big contract at 27. Realmuto is already 30.
Mauer also had to be moved off the position because of concussion issues. We don’t know how things would have turned out had he been able to stay behind the plate
Mauer was MLB’s marketing golden boy (when MLB cared) and Twins’ franchise player and his contract also reflected that. The dude was also on a HOF trajectory.
In all actuality he is going to be your first baseman in 3 years anyway, when they get tired of Hoskins’ act. So pay him the 23,000,001 that he wants.
Hoskins act? Hes a good player
A portion of the Phillies fandom is convinced Hoskins is destined to be a flop.
Realistically, Hoskins may legitimately be a DH candidate in 3 years, so Realmuto could have 1B/DH opened up for him. However, I suspect you would try to work JTR behind the plate for as long as possible.
Hoskins OBP is great. I’d love to have more players with that “act.”
Hoskins is more than usable at 1B. He only has -6 DRS but 1.1 UZR/150 and .9 range runs above average at first throughout his career. Might not be the next Keith Hernandez but he gets the job done.
23 million for a first baseman who isn’t as good a hitter as Hoskins? Seems odd.
At this point, it seems as if the bargaining power really is in the teams favor. Realmuto wants the record contract when the amount of teams willing to do so are slim, especially for a catcher. Hopefully he doesn’t pull a Kimbrel. Give him 4/100 if he wants a record AAV.
Phillies need to just tack $1m onto the AAV of the best offer he verifiably gets from someone else and call it a day.
It would be such an Angels move to slide in with 5/120 and snag JTR, ignoring their pitching once again
@Rangers29. Are the Rangers not spending big for someone to play in the new stadium? They wanted Rendon for third base last year. Rangers have had a quiet off season. Could the Rangers use Realmuto or Bauer? Surprised the Rangers didn’t go after Springer.
Phils need to make their offer and put a deadline, take it or leave it, date. Hell, if they make a deal for a major league average catcher, that gives them more $$ to fill other needs. They weren’t a .500 team WITH Realmuto and Gregorius! They still need two above average, proven starting pitchers and at least 2 more bullpen arms just to keep pace with the other NL East teams.
I think it’s time to admit that Philly is in a rebuild year and start trading off what other teams might want.
@Jim okay if Phillies are trading off pieces. What’s it going to take to get Wheeler?
The 2020 Phillies with an ML bullpen were easily a .500 team. They finished only a few games below .500 even while hamstrung by a historically lousy pen. I wouldn’t go for a rebuild just yet.
Legit question: Wouldn’t it make sense for the Mets to match 5/120 since the combination of Realmuto & McCann would extend both their careers and provide better overall production from the position?
No, the Mets have other holes that should be addressed more than having the best catching tandem in the league.
Holes or upgrades? There is no outfielder available that’s worth sitting Dom in LF. They can use another bullpen arm and another starter, but honestly do you believe McCann will start 100+ games and be decent? He could, but he’s never done it before and at best, you’re still watching Nito for 60 games.
I think the upgrade at catcher might help the pitching staff an provide more of an upgrade than replacing Davis or Dom.
It’ll certainly sting to lose Dom’s bat in the lineup, but that OF defense is unplayable. They really need JBJ.
So you want the Mets to spend 30+ million per year on catching?
It’s not the best use of resources when one of them isn’t catching and there is no DH. If there was one, they’re better paying less for a bat first guy. Realmuto also wouldn’t sign on to catch part-time.
By the time Opening Day rolls around, Realmuto will be 30. Sure, he’s the best offensive catcher now, but will he be in 2 or 3 years, especially how prone catchers are to injuries (concussions, etc.). They are not the same player, obviously, but look how fast Lucoy fell off the map. If I’m the Phils, I use that money elsewhere.
Phillies are an example of why teams should rebuild. They spent stupid money, which is to say they spent money stupidly. It’s exceptionally difficult to buy a title now with the CBT and more teams spending $150M+.
You need prospects, whether acquired through trade or draft, and the Phillies just didn’t have them. I get that rebuilds are difficult, too, but the Padres, White Sox, Cubs, and Astros have all successfully used the process to build playoff teams, the former two are WS contenders this year. People knock rebuilds, but when done with honest intentions of competing in the near future and a desire to spend money when the time comes, I don’t have a problem with them.
Philly is {they} prime example of how it can all get out of control fast on the ledger even when starting from spotless-
They might have jumped the gun a year or 2 early but really I think its been the drafting and development part thats been the hindrance all along not upper management
They have just gotten no help really internally whatsoever
Philly is also an example of why rebuilds dont always work so…
@hyrax this makes sense, but the Phillies problem isn’t rebuilding. They’ve rebuilt for decades. Most of the 90s was a rebuild. 2012-2018 was a rebuild. It’s not that they’re not willing to rebuild, it’s that they don’t do it well. The Phillies have a historically bad track record when it comes to prospects. So as a fan it’s easy to sit back and say, “Hey they should rebuild.” But it simply doesn’t work.
Also of note, they aren’t as bad as people think. They’ve dealt with serious injury issues the last 2 years (as has everyone), but they spent time in 1st place, playing like a playoff team before the inevitable collapse. They have some real good talent, but they’re just missing those extra pieces to put them over the top. This isn’t a rebuild team. They have the core talent. They need the depth.
I think the Odubel thing is just to bait a trade. unless he kills it in AAA and the Phillies have a clear need he isnt coming up.
I had such high hopes for Odubel. Thought it was a great (first) signing to get them on their way –
Ultimately his failure caused another failure in Cutch-
Guy owes Philly a solid comeback or at least some trade value (unlikely w the baggage)
I might be the only poster that has been saying that Goofy should get another shot..He’s getting $10m and they say they want to upgrade CF..Hasley and Quinn are not reliable..
watch out! arte may be too tempted by realmuto!
I had 5/105 to Philly all along – Seems he may draw a little North of that now…..
Who exactly is the other bidder tho?? Im not sure there is one at all who’s willing to pay a catcher 100 mill…..
Would love if somehow CWS could shake Grandal (maybe add a small prospect in trade) and go sign JTR
No way do the Phillies add Oduble Herrera back on their 40-man roster and add his salary back on the payroll. They’ll buy out his 2022 option at the end of the year.
His salary is already on the payroll..use it and let him play..they give druggies 2nd and 3rd comebacks…why not him?
I meant toward the luxury tax. They’ll give him the Rusney Castillo treatment until they can get rid of him. Plus it’s one thing to do steroids or a recreational drug. It’s another thing to harm another human being in a domestic violence case.
Different situation mlb1225… rusney was signed before latest version of agreement and never was on the 40 man roster at all if i remember right .. herrera has played on the roster so it counts
Realmuto is overrated but the Phillies are desperate.. Dollar per dollar, he’ll provide considerably less value than the catchers on the good teams.
Julio’s arsenal consists of 2 pitches.Cookies and lollipops!
Herrera did it to himself.Go overseas and rebuild what’s left.
125 million is alot.Tools of ignorance & longevity.No red flags?
Real is a great player but 5 yrs 125 mil?Tools of ignorance has its ways of finding you.Injury longevity,choose 1.No red flags?
Still a .500 team.
Sign JT……. DD
Braves now rumored to be “in” on Realmuto.