TODAY: The Brewers officially announced Bradley’s deal. To create roster space, utilityman Tim Lopes (oblique) has been moved to the 60-day injured list.
MARCH 4, 1:05pm: Bradley’s 2021 salary is $13MM, tweets Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. He’ll earn $11MM in 2022 if he declines to opt out.
10:45am: Some of Bradley’s salary is deferred, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post.
As to the defensive alignment with Bradley in the fold, Brewers manager Craig Counsell spoke to reporters today and firmly indicated that Cain is the team’s center fielder (Twitter links via Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel). Counsell wouldn’t mention Bradley directly, as his deal has yet to be formally announced, but he said his club doesn’t “…have any fourth outfielders. We have a lot of starting outfielders and we have to figure out how that works. But there’s playing time, absolutely.”
7:08am: The Brewers and center fielder Jackie Bradley Jr. are in agreement on a two-year, $24MM contract, reports Julian McWilliams of the Boston Globe. The second year on that deal is a player option, so Bradley will have the opportunity to return to the open market next winter if he performs well during his first season in Milwaukee. Bradley is represented by the Boras Corporation.
It’s the second major free-agent signing for the Brewers this winter and the second that provides the team with a huge defensive upgrade. Milwaukee also inked former division rival Kolten Wong, arguably the game’s premier defender at second base, on a two-year deal that guarantees him $18MM.
Bradley, 31 in April, figures to slide into the outfield alongside Lorenzo Cain and Christian Yelich. His acquisition could push Avisail Garcia, who struggled in 2020 during the first season of a two-year contract of his own, into a lesser role. It appears quite unlikely that there’ll be a universal designated hitter in 2021 at this point, but Garcia could still work as a DH during interleague games at American League parks. He could also slot into the mix against tough lefties and spell any of the other three on a given day.
Cain, meanwhile, carries a sterling defensive reputation much like Bradley, but he’ll turn 35 the same week Bradley turns 31. The Brewers could turn center field over to the younger of the two and slide Cain, who opted out of the 2020 season after just five games last year, into a less demanding corner outfield spot.
Prior to their deal with Bradley, the Brewers didn’t have much in the way of proven outfield depth in the event that a starting outfielder went down with an injury. The only other outfielders on the 40-man roster were Tyrone Taylor, Corey Ray and a trio of offseason DFA pickups: Billy McKinney, Derek Fisher and Tim Lopes. Bringing Bradley into the mix now gives them cover for a potential injury and allows them to rest Cain (returning at 35 after opting out of 2020) and Yelich (major knee injury at the end of 2019) with more regularity. More broadly speaking, the signing also simply improves both the defense and the lineup.
Detractors may brush aside the notion that Bradley can help to improve Milwaukee’s offense, but over the past six seasons he’s batted .247/.331/.438 — good for a slightly above-average 102 wRC+ and 101 OPS+. That line includes a .283/.364/.450 showing through 217 plate appearances last year. Bradley struggled in 2019 as his strikeout rate spiked to an unpalatable 27.3 percent, but he cut that mark by more than five percent last season in a rebound effort during the shortened campaign.
Bradley shouldn’t be problematic from a payroll standpoint, as the Brewers had been set for a decrease from their 2019-20 spending levels prior to the deal. The new agreement will take them to $105MM if the contract is evenly distributed and a bit more if the deal is front-loaded (which, speculatively speaking, seems likely). Either way, they’ll still be well shy of 2019’s franchise-record $122.5MM Opening Day mark.
The Bradley deal, in many regards, is reminiscent of Milwaukee’s surprise agreement with catcher Yasmani Grandal in the 2018-19 offseason. Grandal, like Bradley, was an elite defender at a premium position who didn’t find long-term offers to his liking and instead bet on himself by signing a one-year deal at a higher annual rate with the Brewers. Bradley’s deal doesn’t match Grandal’s $18.25MM guarantee (although it could afford him more than $12MM depending on the structure), but it gives him a nice safety net with the player option in the event that he struggles in 2021 or deals with a notable injury.
Aside from the Cardinals’ blockbuster acquisition of Nolan Arenado, it’s been a rather quiet offseason in the NL Central. The Cubs have made a handful of small-scale, one-year additions — but only after trading away Yu Darvish — while the Reds and Pirates have been mostly idle. Late agreements with Bradley, Wong and lefty Brett Anderson don’t make the Brewers a clear favorite even in a potentially lackluster division, but they certainly improve what looks to be a competitive club. And given the current payroll level and this front office regime’s penchant for late-offseason value plays, it’d be unwise to completely rule out any further additions.
2 years? Hahahaha, and he thought he was going to get 4+?
He and Boras can eat humble pie.
Yeah I know. What a couple a jerks for wanting a longer contract. I bet Scott and Jackie are really eating the humble pie you served them this morning.
Maybe if he doesn’t try for four years he ends up with one year. Still received a decent AAV.
I don’t understand why you feel like a professional athlete with a limited earning window MUST be “humbled” on the market simply because you don’t like an agent who asks a bunch of billionaires to pay a guy what he’s worth? Can you explain why this is? You literally giggled with delight because of this in your post. Strange.
Because that’s not what he’s worth. Evidenced by the fact that no one gave him a contract like he was asking for.
@A’sfan
Based on what he signed for, they were not asking for what he was worth. They were asking for more. Even what he got from the Brewers is an over pay, because 29 other teams weren’t willing to offer that much.
Exactly, why are you taking joy in the fact that he didn’t get that extra year or 2? Are you paying his salary? No stop that nonsense
@1984wasntamanual – how do you know what his value is? Is it written down anywhere? No. You said “Because that’s not what he’s worth” but that is 100% your opinion and not based on any facts or stats, like, at all.
@stymeedone your logic makes zero sense to me. Please explain further. Are you saying whoever signs literally any free agent is “overpaying” because they paid more than the other 29 teams? Seems that’s what you are saying here.
I don’t get this unless there is another move. Yelich plays every day so we have 3 highly paid, great defensive OF for two spots. I expect a big year from Avi in RF. That means 2 gold glove CFs? Why
Yes it is what I’m saying. (Unless an agent didn’t contact all options)
@cubs forever
I was providing an observation. No joy. No sadness. And Yes, the fans pay the salaries, ultimately.
@ A’sfaninUK,
Mr. Boras has far more money then most of the “billionaires” you refer to.
The Brewers signed him to that contract. Doesn’t that make him worth it? Obviously both parties agreed. I don’t understand
Brewers thought that they had too many Outfielders last year and look how that played out. They can rotate Bradley/Cain/Garcia enough to be able to get each one 350-400 plate appearances.
You’re only worth what someone is willing to pay for you
Angelsfan, it is possible for two parties to agree to a deal but the deal be not worth it for one side; an overpay. It’s possible.
“Limited earning window”. Does he die at 35? He can get a real job and work until he is 70 like everyone else.
Not everyone can be like you Joe. Catch for the Dodgers and then go play QB for the Buffalo Bills.
I think the Brewers were desperate to do something and saw Bradley as the only option available.
@A’s faninUK, He can’t. I can. In one word: Jealousy.
Weird thing, though, is he’s not even humbled. He just banked $13M guaranteed Has a fallback of another $11M in 2022 if he gets injured. If not, he gets to go back out and make more money next year. He doesn’t know what the word humbled means.
Market value is how much the highest bidder is willing to pay, not how much every bidder would be willing to pay.
That’s simply not true. Overpays do exist (not in this case but still). You’re entitling yourself to your own definitions of terms. Is Pujols presently being paid market value? When the proverbial government pays $20,000 for a toilet seat, is that “market value?”
Cosmo2
When the proverbial government pays $20,000 for a toilet seat, is that “market value?”
===================================================================
In some cases, yes. I’m quite certain that the gov’t regularly overpays, but in some cases, these items are not available over the counter. If you want a new crapper for the space Mars Mission, you are likely looking at a lot of engineering hours and custom-made materials.
Heh, you got me there… a space toilet for 20,000 may be a bargain
Boras’ net worth is $450 million. As a Nats fan I know the Lerner’s net worth is over $20 billion. I suspect that all MLB owners net worth far exceeds $450 million. The sad truth is Bradley much like all free agents is now getting what he should have gotten earlier in his career. The players and the owners need to address the lack of equity in the current system.
He may be right.
But it’s a very, very expensively delicious humble pie, though, @ZacharyPaul.
Wouldn’t mind getting in on a slice of that dessert myself.
mmmm-mmmmmm…tens of millions of dollars humble pie. Delicious.
They are definitely eating the pie on some very nice china……proably in a 10 million dollar house……and when they leave, they will both drive away in their 100K plus vehicles. Couple of losers for sure.
I like this^ guy!
Exactly. Man, good for the Brewers. We all knew exactly what they were going to do. Stearns was going to wait…& wait…& wait…& then he was going to scoop up the best players left.
Right on time.
Two years with one being an option? Thus better be like when Boston knew they had Els and let Damon walk and then replaced Els with JBJ. Duran better be the real deal.
Duran is the real deal. He’s their full time CF no later than next year and there’s a good chance he makes it up this year. Only issue is that he’s not on the 40 man roster right now so it might take an injury to get him called up in 2021.
Or a surprising hot start. My concern now is the outfield is weakened at multiple positions.
Adams falls in love with buzzwords and beats them into the ground.
This seasons word is “Slide”.
I’d be willing to wager that the bosox do not begin his service time this year
At least not the first couple of weeks. Bloom may not be the prior GMs but history shows ownership hasn’t been concerned about the clock with centerfielders. Otherwise, JBJ would still have one more year per MLB-TV.
@ZacharyPaul Did you really just mention contract length without taking the AAV multiplier into consideration? And then you fanboy all over Boras and JBJ just cuz they have money? Lol wow you’re a loser.
Way to Stan a bunch of millionaires ZacharyPaul. Mom must be proud of you!
@Zach and A’s Fan Why do any of you tulips care what any one of us think about the contract? I thought we were all entitled to our own opinion yet here we are reading your soft a#$ comment. I’m so tired of some fans making it out like the players are victims because the owners have more money. They have more money because they OWN the teams get it? You’re probably the types of fans who get mad when other fans boo the players too. Like I said you’re soft tighten it up.
Mystery Team
I’m so tired of some fans making it out like the players are victims because the owners have more money.
==================================================================
It’s crazy stuff, and the writers are even worse. On virtually any owner/player dispute, the writers take the players’ side. Why? Because it is a ‘union’, and the writers are taught to always to back the side of the ‘downtrodden, looking to put food on the table’.
The reality is that it is a bunch of owners who collectively make a couple of billion $ every year, against a bunch of players who collectively make a couple of billion $ every year.
It never occurred to me to ask the owner of the local auto repair shop how much he paid his mechanics, because it is none of my business. So why would I care how 30 billionaires and 750 millionaires carve up my $28 ticket?
Definitely. Boras knows how to overrate his clients. JBJ is a platoon player, if anything. Offensively, he offers very little.
Well Boras just got that platoon, overrated player the 6th highest AAV for any CF.
I absolutely agree the is no way the Brewers should have signed him period. They should signed Franco besides Shaw. Then I still would’ve unloaded Garcia or Cain and I love Cain. The Brewers messed up big time. It was time to put Taylor in right or left full time. We messed up anyways getting rid of Grisham. I don’t care what anyone says our outfield should be Yellich, Cain, and Grisham. Then we still would be way ahead of a rotation of Woodruff, Burnes, Houser, Peralta, Ashby, Kelly, Brown, Anderson, Davis, or Rasmussen. He’ll We would have been so far ahead this year with that scenario we could’ve afforded Arnaud at third or getting one of next year’s shortstop like Baez.
Seeing as Franco still hasn’t signed even a minor league deal, signing him doesn’t seem to be a priority for anyone, much less the Brewers. Same goes for Gyorko.
Which is unfortunate as Franco looked like he was finally figuring things out in KC. If i were the Nationals i would at least bring Franco in as minor league invite to camp as insurance in case Kieboom continues to struggle
JBJ is an everyday CF and your opinion on his gameplay is bad and not rooted in any factual truth.
He’s a very good fielder but he’s not a good hitter.. he had a couple of years w some extended hot stretches, but overall he’s a below average hitter by every metric… and his inconsistency actually makes him less valuable than a hitter who’s consistently average
Milwaukee stiill has Avisail Garcia on the team, and can substitute him for Bradley when Offense is needed. Sigining JBJ gives the Brewers more flexibility.
He’s in fact an average hitter by every metric?
He’s better than very good in the field. Don’t minimize his value in center. Sox team ERA just further increased without a pitch being thrown
@Ma4170 JBJ had a .900 OPS vs LHP and .776 OPS against RHP pitching. What metrics are you looking at that says he’s below average because I’m seeing plenty that show him as at very worst, a league average hitter.
He’s actually an average hitter by most metrics. See the 102 wRC+ and 101 OPS+ over the last 6 seasons.
Metrics are not always the answer. If he could ever get consistently good at the plate, he could still be a star. He’s got the gloves the arm and still good foot speed. He knows how to position himself and how to run the bases. Most importantly, he fits in ANY clubhouse. You can’t say that about some others.
@Frank Diehl You wrote “Boras knows how to overrate his clients.” but that’s factually untrue, what he is doing is SELLING his clients – this is what agents are SUPPOSED to do!!!
If your agent is at the negotiating table like “Yeah he’s not very good” then your agent is incomentent at his job!
What’s good, @London?
But – yeah.
“Oh, heavens no, David Stearns. That’s far too much. I was thinking he should get like…10 for 2?”
Tell ya.
If some of these fellas were out selling for me they’d starve. True story.
Boras very often over-rates his clients and that is not necessarily his job. Look at the Stephen Drew fiasco from a few years back. His over-valuations sometimes cost his middle road clients money. There is a difference between selling and asking for a price so overly high that your client loses leverage.
The problem in my view is ethics go out the window when a so called agent represents too many players. There’s a built in conflict when the agent is potentially talking one player when also represents someone else, etc. I ran into this situation in my personal profession years ago. Many kids were represented by one attorney in separate suits against a building owner. A verdict then took all the insurance money with nothing but the building and personal assets left for several other cases. The building had minimal value due to mortgages and there was no other tangible assets. It ended up with the court lowering the value of the trial verdict and an arbitrator decided the values of each remaining claim out of the available limits. My argument then was how did that first case get to trial first which was in part manipulated by the attorney? That was a conflict like agents have in sports today.
And people here thought he’d only get one year guaranteed for $10M, or maybe two years for $16M. Instead, he gets up to $24M guaranteed, and the ability to re-enter the market next year post pandemic. All of our humble pie should be so profitable.
Man. Now I’m hungry.
But, yeah. Pretty much.
I thought going in he’d get a 3/39. This market was more difficult, but he can re-enter next year and gain even more money. He did fine.
The Mets absolutely should have signed him at this price, although he probably wasn’t at this price point when they inked Pillar. They still don’t have a CFer though.
D’accord.
I think he & Boras did very well, here. He actually got a raise from last season & outperformed all the estimates I saw for him.
Wanting a 4 year contract & instead signing a nice 2 year deal is far from a loss.
Maybe the mets were outbid. Again.
😉
But yeah. Bradley >> Pillar. All lolMets stuff aside, Pillar was a puzzling add. mets could definitely have used him. Lord. There defense is as bad as ours. Might even be worse!
Is there some rule I’m unaware of that says baseball teams in NYC have to play crappy defense?
Lord, and as an added bonus, he gets to go to a better team.
24 million is 24 million. More money than you and I will ever see in our life times combined.
Tell ya.
5-6 years I thought I had an outside shot at getting together my half of that.
But, nah.
1 million dollars? Really not that much money.
But.
24 million dollars? Now that’s actually a lot of money, bro.
he still got 24 mil brutha. What you got?
Boras is a jerk anyway (he’s the one of the main reasons that salaries are so high which, in turn, created a bunch of divas who give up after getting a big deal), but good for Jackie! He’s a good guy.. But no way in hell was he getting 4 years from anyone.. Glad he still ended up with a solid salary though (and hock is higher than I expected).
And don’t worry, Milwaukee will love and hate him at the same time. He is the most streaky hitter I’ve ever witnessed. One week he doesn’t miss a good pitch, hits .500 w/power, the next few weeks he can’t do anything but strike out.
This is why he wasn’t getting a 4 year deal. The defense isn’t going to make up for the lack of offense. It’ll be fun for ESPN though.
Everyone saying Brew Crew paid too much for defense. The Cubs and Jason Heyward say “hold my beer.” Settle down people.
I’m sure they’ll be eating more than humble pie with 18 million dollars lol
Centerfield?
JBJ is staying in CF. Cain’s legs are getting slower
Plus, it’s an advantage to have two legit CFers on the roster who bat from different sides. Increases roster flexibility and provides injury protection.
Look at me. I can play.
Well that was unexpected
Exactly
He didn’t get the 4 years but he certainly got paid.
A good move as long as JBJ exclusively faces RHP only.
JBJ had a .900 OPS vs LHP and .776 OPS vs RHP last season, please explain your comment.
.685 OPS lifetime versus lefties.
If you bothered to check the shortened 2020 season you should have checked a larger sample of his body of work.
WereAllJustGuestsHere51 mins ago
.685 OPS lifetime versus lefties.
===============================================
Way too many fans assume that, because a player has different splits, they are platoon players.
He could take the occasional day off against a tough lefty, but a GG CF with even a .685 OPS against lefties, is still a starter. Trout has bigger split differentials than JBJ, but still manages to start against both lefties and righties.
FWIW, most players have splits. The average lefty last year had an 83 point differential.
JoeBrady, sometimes you have to look at the roster before you make the decision. Brewers going Garcia-Cain-Yelich versus lefties will be a better option than JBJ starting.
What is funny is your case actually proves he shouldn’t start against lefties AND he’s overpaid. Using bad numbers to make your case is not a strong look.
.685 OPS lifetime against LHP is league average, and combined with ELITE defense, he is an everyday CF no matter what.
He’s definitely starting material but is his defense really ELITE, all-caps? He’s very good at a very important defensive position but I don’t think he’s top top tier for CF. Perhaps splitting hairs, but I wouldn’t call him “ELITE”.
3281 career PAs…
.752 (105 OPS+) v RHP
.685 (88 OPS+) v LHP
Last year was 60 games. I don’t think he’s THAT awful that you can’t play him against LHP, but go look at his career splits. Trying to use a 60 game sample while ignoring the rest of his career, and you’re asking someone else to explain their comment?
If you look at his year by year breakdown vs LHP, he was only bad in 2014, 2017 and 2018, all other seasons he was good to great, so its wrong to say he’s bad overall vs LHP, rather, he is inconsistent vs LHP.
In 7 full seasons, he’s had 4 where he was good to great vs LHP and 3 where he was bad. Please explain your comment.
Do you say “Please explain your comment” on every post you make or just the ones where you cherry pick stats to fit your narrative?
Lol
Platoon splits don’t really vary from batter to batter. I mean, they do statistically from year to year cuz there’s luck and randomness etc, but across the board righties do better vs lefties and so on. JBJ is a league average hitter. Better against righties, worse against lefties. Details beyond that are inconsequential. The even split between good and bad seasons vs lefties for a league average guy bares this out
Are you the president of the JBJ fan club?
Last season…. You said it right there.. What about his track record before the shortened, lack-luster MLB pitching season of 2020.
He’s streaky, and Milwaukee didn’t pay him that salary to play him against Lefties only.
-Does anyone actually WATCH games anymore, or just highlights? If anyone watched they’d know exactly what I’m saying.
You are saying JBJ is a perfect late inning replacement since he hasn’t hit for 8 years and isn’t likely to do so in his 30s?
2020 should make no difference in one’s evaluation of JBJ.
All glove no bat.
Platooning a pig doesn’t change them from being a pig. JBJ stunk at hitting for most of the last decade. I can’t remember the exact number of months he hit below .240 but it was over half the time for nearly a decade. That’s terrible hitting. Great fielding but the difference between him and a league average fielder in CF is 2 errors!!! Is it worth 2 errors to get a guy hitting 40 to 80 points higher?
It’s insanity to pay JBJ anything over $1M because that’s his replacement value. $12M is pure stupidity. $6M is pure stupidity. I love the guy but he is what he is………. a late inning replacement for defensive purposes only!
1 yr @ 12 Mil? Whatta overpay.
Its not rlly. There is no such thing as a bad 1 year deal because it expires and you can move on
The buyout at 11m for the 2nd season is the real overpay
If I understand correctly, its a player option, not a buyout. But just saying that will probably result in a 25+ reply p/ssing contest about option vs buyout because that’s what this entire comment thread has turned into..
This is surprising. It feels like an overpay and that’s not something we expect from Milwaukee. Certainly not when it seems like they are one of one or one of only a few offering that much. Boras is really that good at his job
Does this move Cain to a corner?
Or Bradley to the left side of the infield.
Cain becomes Ryan Braun and plops himself on that slightly discolored patch in the left field grass of *gag* American Family Field *more gagging*
Nope, it moves him to the bench.
We’ll see who sits. Any way you slice it, Avi, Cain, or JBJ leave a lot of money on the bench. At EOD, the bat(s) will play.
I don’t think Cain is going to the bench, unless he’s injured.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Cain is traded, and JBJ effectively is his replacement. I love Cain but he was pretty awful offensively 2 years ago, and then opted out last year. Although JBJ is not a great offensive player, he may be an improvement at this point. They’re both dynamic defensive players, but Bradley most likely has the advantage right now and Cain is at the age where he could drop off significantly at any time. If they can find a team willing to take on the bulk of his contract, I could definitely see Cain being moved
i like this move a lot… Milwaukee now boasts one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. Couple that with strong pitching and some potential bounce back candidates and they could be a dangerous team
so now they only need strong pitching! I would have started with that!
NYY42, you haven’t a clue. The Brewers pitching is far and away the most underrated staff in the game, and will rival any teams pitching staff in the game. They have the best 1-2 PRIME aged (24-29) starters in the game that will only become more dominant. 6-8 more competent or better starter arms to help spread innings, and far and away the best and most importantly dominate bullpen in the game. Williams/Hader K% of 40-50% is death to any and all potential rally’s.
I think there are a number of teams out there with a better rotation. San Diego, Los Angeles (NL), New York (NL), Chicago (AL) just for starters
Brewers have a T-10 pitching staff, nothing wrong with that. The 4 teams you listed have pay rolls twice as high lol
true, there are better rotationa out there, but i think you’re hard pressed to find a better pitching staff overall. maybe the Dodgers…
NMK2 –
Of course there are better staffs out there, Captain Obvious. I don’t think anyone here claimed that the Brewers staff was the best in baseball…or anything close to that. All BudSeligFan was saying is that NYY42 apparently doesn’t pay attention to baseball, because the Brewers actually have a pretty decent staff. They have a couple excellent young starters and then some decent arms to fill out the rotation. Their bullpen is usually dominating. I don’t see anywhere where he claims they are the best in baseball, however.
woodruff and burnes are solidifying themselves as a strong 1-2… houser took a step back last year but still boasted elite spin and groundball rates (which will play into the strong defense)… anderson, lindblom and lauer at the back end of the rotation may not seem great on paper, but when you have Hader and NL ROY devin williams at the backend of a bullpen, then throw in solid bullpen pieces like Suter, Topa, Peralta, boxberger and plenty of upside from rasmussen, perdomo, wahl, black feyereisen, MIL starters only need to get through a lineup twice in order to be successful… need i mention that two of MIL’s top 5 prospects are LHP ready to contribute in Smalls and Ashby? pitching is a strength my friend, and the brewers are showing teams like your Yanks that you don’t need 500 mil guaranteed in your rotation to do it.
Try Bieber and Civale with the Indians.
Cain is gonna be a very good COF. Yea, the OF defense should be great.
WHY?????
You know what I like this move
C Narvaez
1B Garcia
2B Wong
SS Urias
3B Hiura or flip flop
LF Yelich
CF Cain
RF JBJ
DH when playing AL Vogelbach
Hiura is not going to play 3B
you like it cause you needed some offense and you didn’t get it? Rosario was a better fit and you wouldn’t have been stuck with that second year.
dpsmith22 –
They most likely won’t get to that second year…it’s a player option, and JBJ will be playing in an excellent hitters park. And I also wouldn’t mind being “stuck” with a guy who put up 2.1 war (bbref) in 60 games last year, either. Rosario hits HR’s and not much else. Low OBP (.300 or below in 3 of his 6 seasons) and a butcher in the OF (-1.5 career defensive war).
2.1 WAR in 60 games is a bad way to judge. WAR can go down just like it can go up. A month long slump and suddenly that stat is 1.5 WAR in 80 games. Over a full season JBJ is going to regress to his usual.
Cosmo22 hours ago
Over a full season JBJ is going to regress to his usual.
=====================================================
Exactly. And his usual over the past 6 years is a 2.9 bWAR.
JoeBrady: no contradiction in what I’ve said. Him finishing with a 2.9 WAR goes exactly along with what I’m saying. Without a regression to the norm a 2.1 WAR in 60 games comes to about 5 WAR over a full season. 1.5 in 80 comes to 3.0 over a full season. Nice attempt at snark but either my comments are over your head or basic math escapes you.
Cain isn’t playing CF with Bradley there.
You immediately lost all credibility when you typed Hiura at 3rd. Dude can barely make the throw from 2nd.
You are better off playing Garcia at 3rd bruh
OK Since a lot of talk here is the updated one
C Narvaez
1B Hiura
2B Wong
SS Urias
3B Garcia
LF Yelich
CF Bradley
RF Cain
That was a joke, you shouldn’t play either of them at 3rd. Do you watch baseball?
I am a yanks fan I pay attention to statistics. I honestly have never seen Hiura field before
Y2KAK-
What “statistics” indicate that either Hiura or Garcia could play 3B? By your logic, the Yankees should play Stanton and 3rd, or maybe Aaron Judge at SS
Lol. As a true Brewer fan the lineup will more likely look like this
C Narvaez
1B Hiura/Shaw
2B Wong
SS Arcia/Urias
3B Shaw/Arcia
LF Yelich
CF Bradley/Cain
RF Garcia/Cain
Think Shaw and Garcia will start the least but will each get 300+ ABs if healthy/competent
We should be sitting with a line-up of
c Narvaez/Pina
1b Huira/ Nottingham
2b Wong
ss Arcia
3b Franco
lf Yellich
cf Cain
rf Grisham
bench Robertson/ Lopes/Taylor
rotation of these guys
Woodruff
Burnes
Houser
Davis
Anderson
Ashby
Kelly
Peralta
Rasmussen or
Brown.
Never made that trade of Grisham or signed Garcia, JBJ, and Lindholm. Kept that money and gone after a nice shortstop next off-season. Would’ve been a hell of a lot better off
That was never going to happen anyway. Brewers will not match big money for Lindor/Correa/Seager/Baez/Story. If they want to spend they should try locking up Yelich before he puts up another MVP caliber season
They already locked up Yelich
Trade Cain to the Mets!!!
As a Mets fan, you can keep Cain.
You’re probably right. I just want a right handed true centerfielder
The Red Sox could use Cain and a truck load of other guys to fill their holes!
Brewers get an excellent centerfielder at a very reasonable price. Hopefully he starts hitting more consistently.
I wouldn’t say a reasonable price. Anyone who thinks JBJ is a .280 hitter off of last year’s short season is setting themselves up for disappointment. Over a full season there are multiple month long stretches of hitting .200 or less from him, which drop the full season numbers to where they usually are. The great defense is always there but the bat is a couple blisteringly hot weeks followed by a LOT of empty ABs.
The Brewers just won the biggest bonehead signing of the 2020-21 off season award.
PKCasimir –
You’re entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else. My opinion is that yours is incredibly ignorant
And my opinion is based on watching almost every game Bradley played while a member of the Red Sox. What is ignorant is your ignorance of the facts on which I based my opinion.
It’s reasonable, but a tad high with the second year. Even if he doesn’t hit like he did over 60 games for a full season (he won’t), he’ll still provide 12m in value as long as his legs don’t fall off.
I don’t understand why some people totally overrate defense. In a typical year he has around 300 total chances in CF. The vast majority of those are routine or fairly routine. It’s not like he makes even one outstanding catch a week, so in total we’re talking about maybe a dozen or so truly spectacular plays that a merely competent CFer wouldn’t make over the course of a season. That’s not worth $12M a year.
Overrate defense?
LOL
Have you watched any Met games the past few years?
Its not just catches, its keeping a guy at 1st on a ball hit to the gap, you can also have the luxary of playing more shallow to take away base hits if you have more range. You sir (kingken) obviously don’t understand baseball
Im pretty sure most people on this site arent using batting average as a good yardsticn for overall talent. A player can hit .250 and still put up monster numbers if they walk and/or hit for power
He’s solid but he’s 31. He is what he is as a hitter.
.900 OPS vs LHP and .776 vs RHP last season, I’m curious as to why people think he’s unplayable vs LHP? He’s improved over his career vs them, but that career OPS is .685, which combined with elite defense, means he’s an everyday CF no matter what.
He mauly not be unplayable, but I suspect the Crew would prefer Garcia — who is actually a plus defender in RF — to take the PAs versus LHP. You want abpkatoon edge, not a
He mauly not be unplayable, but I suspect the Crew would prefer Garcia — who is actually a plus defender in RF — to take the PAs versus LHP. You want a platoon edge, not playable
Because last season’s numbers were heavily aided by it being a short season. In a full season he always has long stretches of futility at the plate that drop his overall numbers significantly. Just because last year’s 60-game schedule didn’t allow him the time to “regress to his mean” doesn’t mean he’s a better hitter than all his previous seasons showed.
He’s only been bad against LHP in 3 of his 7 full seasons.
So just under half the time he’s bad against lefties. Not really a ringing endorsement.
“King”ken –
Newsflash: a large majority of left handed batters in MLB are bad against lefties
His bat isn’t as particularly good and worse vs lefties. There’s no justifying that bat without the good defense at the elite position, which JBJ has so, yep, he’s an everyday player.
I’m pleased Bradley will now make his three outs per game (minimum) for a new team. Good luck, JBJ.
Happy for him. Good team. Good organization. Gets the chance to see if he has “figured it out”. The word on him has always been that the talent is there. He just runs so hot and so cold. Don’t doubt what he can do, just look at 2018 postseason, he was a game changer. I hope he does well, a real ball player who can get after it.
Unexpected signing but the Brewers got JBJ at a good price. He had a good year offensively last year but it was a short season. I doubt that he could carry that production for a full season. He’s more of a platoon guy if anything.
A good price? 4x Kevin Pillar, who I feel is JBJ’s equivalent. Plus they will be stuck with him the 2nd year of him hitting .205.
Pillar has been in decline since his 2015-17 peak, JBJ has been pretty consistent throughout, that’s why its a good price. 2/24 is nothing to these teams btw.
I realize it’s nothing to them, but JBJ is NOT 4x Pillar. Comparison is real. Both hit 1 arm side, play good d, and have speed but can’t steal bags.
dpsmith22 –
Have you been in a coma for the last couple years? Pillar is average AT BEST defensively, with negative defensive WAR in each of the past two seasons. Not sure where you’re getting your .205 batting average from, either. He’s hit .247 over the last 6 years…so your intellect is telling you that he’s going to hit 42 points under that in one of the best hitters parks around? With a brain like that, how are you not a GM for a major league team?
He is not a platoon player. He is an every day cf. He will play 140-150 games a year.
Bradley in CF, Cain in RF.
$12 million a year for excellent defense? Seems like a reach. Game plan: just don’t hit the ball anywhere near JBJ.
Cain and Yelich are both natural CFs too, they have 3 CFs in the OF now, they are catching EVERYTHING!!!
Yelich hasn’t really played CF since 2017 and he wasn’t very good at it even back then. Please explain your comment.
As someone who grew up with Yaz, Reggie, Tony C, and then Rice, Lynn, Evans, this latest homegrown OF sure didn’t last long at all!
Ya, but do you remember Joe Lahoud???? Jose Tartabull?
So the Killer B OF of the Sox (Bene, Bradly, Betts) are all gone. Too bad; was one of the better ones, offensively and defensively.
I don’t quite get it from the Brewers’ point of view, but Sterns is a smart cookie.
Jose Tartabull filled in for Tony C. Joe Lahoud I think went in the Lonborg trade for Harper? And I also remember Ben Oglivie. I think Zupcic is my favorite name but he’s more recent than those other guys.
Tartabull started in the 67 series. I remember his name and his batting stance which were both unique enough that as a kid it jumps out as a vivid memory later in life. Yaz’s stance was iconic but Tartabull’s was very memorable because like Yaz he loved his hands high.
Tartabull and Joy Foy are always the two forgotten starters in trivia contests asking for the 1967 Red Sox line-up in the WS.
Ah, Dalton Jones, George Thomas. Jerry Adair…..where have they all gone.?
Lahoud was most memorable for keeping his pet stuffed gorilla, Mighty Joe Joe Young, in the dugout with him at all times. Drove “The Gerbil” ( manager Don Zimmer) nuts.
Of course Lahoud reacted to Zimmer’s accusation that he and Bill Lee had a “special friendship” by planting a big wet one on Spaceman’s lips. In the dugout, in front of God and everyone.
The two Sox radio guys at the time, Ned Martin and Jim Woods, knew they were getting fired at the end of the year (for refusing to read commercials while the game was going on; ya, there was a time when that didn’t happen), of course took Lahoud’s side and peed all over the Gerbil at every chance. Once when Zim went to take a pitcher out, Martin intoned “as the manager burrows his way to the mound”…….
hahaha great stuff. I’ve had to deal with Zimmer managing both the Red Sox and my favorite National League team growing up, the Chicago Cubs. I can remember watching Mitch Williams walk the bases loaded then striking out the sides and Zimmer looking like a heart attack was imminent. He was the worst manager until Cora but always worth the price of admission as he dealt with the stress related to his bullpen. I laugh just thinking about it, like Spaceman and LaHoud.
The former RS greats didn’t have the benefit of free agency.
Huh?
Whyhazee mentioned some long-time RS outfielders. One of the reasons they were there for a long time is because they didn’t have free agency.
Most he named, did.
Boston should have found a way to make this deal work for them.
I agree. They just got much weaker on D in the OF. From the outside looking in, it’s kinda hard to see what this team is doing. Luxury tax concerns aside, they just haven’t put together a very good team, in a division when mediocrity, gets eaten for lunch.
Don’t sleep on the Red Sox this year!
Wake us up if they climb into 3rd
Boston is rebuilding. Letting JBJ walk was an e z decision as they are paying some 35 million this season for players not on their roster and roughly another 15 for Sale not being there 1/2 the season.
I think Boston eventually unloads everyone. Devers has 3 years of control left and Bogaerts is priced right for a power hitting ss. If they can get top value for those 2- I bet they unload everyone and bottom out for a season or two so they can pick at top of draft. Then build around that core.
Sale, 32, is only owed a touch over a 100 mil for next 4 seasons. I’d take a healthy Sale over nearly every other staff’s ACE. He has a lot of value at that price too if he comes back healthy 2nd half.
Bloom and co. are doing what they have to do. But this is not the mid-small market 5 year rebuild where they trade away every marketable player for prospects over and over, throw all the youngsters up against the wall and hope some stick.
This is a very measured rebuild that is happening faster then people here think. Example – the Jays will be fortunate to finish above the Sox for one year in the next 5.
Samuel – Quick reality check. Who on the Red Sox is as good as Guerrero, Biggio and Bichette during the next 5 years? It sure as heck isn’t Bogaerts, Devers and Verdugo. The Blue Jay players are younger and improving and with pedigrees. The Red Sox have Bogey who will opt out for more money. Devers who can’t field and Verdugo who is a tweaked back away from a long IL stint. Jays beat them all 5 years.
Bloom’s so called measured rebuild is very similar to Friedman’s in LA. All he does is sit and not pick anyone up and let the great minor league players in their system graduate and keep the 90+ wins happening. The problem is Bloom blew=up the 90+ win team when he sent Mookie to LA with Price. So, instead, the measured rebuild as you call it is a team sitting on 65 wins and hoping the guys who graduate to the majors can lift them to .500. Duran, Houck, Dalbec, Devers, Bogaerts, Vazquez all pre-date Bloom just like Seager, Bellinger, Turner, Kershaw, Jansen, Pederson, and Urias all pre-date Friedman. Neither Freidman nor Bloom are half the GM DD was. If Bloom doesn’t give his mentor Mookie there are no rings in LA. Bloom will soon be out of a job and I’m guessing Friedman will hire him and give a yacht as an overdue bonus for the Mookie deal.
The “measured rebuild” that will create “sustainability” is what we call “MARKETING HYPE”. They are words used to confuse the masses into thinking the rising prices and lowering of the quality of the product is perfectly acceptable because in the end all things will work out. TRUST IN BLOOM.
Sorry, but the guy is unqualified for his job just like Cora and will fail. I just wish we could move the failing along so a new OWNER, GM and MANAGER can bring back the days of competitive play in Boston.
Horrible take.
It’s a rebuild. If you’re looking for it to be pretty in the present, it won’t be. All rebuilds are ugly. You’re way misjudging Bloom. He’s got a good plan. You just gotta deal with losing for a bit. Funny how fans (especially from Boston or NY) claim they understand the concept of a rebuild but as soon as their team has the audacity to not win every year, the GM is a bum. Very short sighted.
Dodgers were able to win because Seager led them with his performance. Mookie wasn’t the only reason. If DD was that great why has he been fired a couple of times. Friedman has never been fired. And won’t be in the near future.
Dodgers were able to win because Seager led them with his performance. Mookie wasn’t the only reason. If DD was that great why has he been fired a couple of times. Friedman has never been fired. And won’t be in the near future. Of course you wish for them to fail.
Theodore – You do realize some of the greatest people in history were fired multiple times? Right? Being fired isn’t something to be shamed about on a website like this. DD got fired because the racists that offended Mookie wanted to move him and DD refused. That means that ownership’s goals and DD goals didn’t align. That’s a great reason to fire him. That says NOTHING about what a great job he did. He won a ring. He had a great plan for the Red Sox through 2022. He did nothing wrong, he simply no longer aligned with the screwed up vision of a racist ownership group. To me, he should be proud of getting out once he found out why Mookie didn’t want to stay. Good for him.
I get that you are a Friedman Kool-Aid drinker but do the homework. Check out the roster that won the WS and how many DID NOT come from Friedman. He had a great roster, just like Bloom did, and rather than throwing away Bellinger and Kershaw he kept them and coasted while the other great players in their minors graduated to the majors. That must have taken some incredibly deep thinking sessions to come up with a plan to basically do nothing but sit at the helm of a ship that is sailing beautifully before he arrived Until he stole Mookie , he had just as many rings and his predecessor. He takes credit for the LA success but people who know what was in the organization before Friedman arrived know he had very little to do with the success. His biggest impact was changing the manager not procuring talent.
He should change agents who could not “read the JBJ market”. and I take too long for the insistence
I don’t know what to laugh at more.
A – the humble pie that JBJ and Borass have to eat this morning and the crow sandwiches at lunchtime.
or
B – that Steve Cohen has certainly changed things with the Mets as shown in the exact type of offseason that the Wilpons showed from time to time before the implosion. At least Cohen’s GameStop investment will pay off. The Mets will look great on all the MLB video games. While in real life…
Marlinsfanbase-You need to get over your obsession with the Mets. We get it you don’t like them. But its weird how you pop up in all these Mets comment sections. You should be excited about your Marlins. They signed Gio Gonzalez to a minor league deal. That’s got to be the biggest move they made this offseason. Championship here we come.
Marlins fan is just annoyed that Cohen has the subtlety and intellect to come up with an actual plan as opposed to Marlins fan’s own “spend money on every big name or bust” ham-fisted approach. An approach that requires no intellectual ability to come up with and which rarely works. It’s gonna be fun when the Mets are in the thick of things in late August and the Marlins are yet again in sell mode, watching from the cellar.
MarlinsFanBase2 hours ago
I don’t know what to laugh at more.
A – the humble pie that JBJ and Borass have to eat this morning
=================================================================
Silly comment, imo. They got $24M. MLBR predicted him to get $16M/2, and he got 50% more. It’s people like you that are eating humble pie.
Lol Boras over played his hand again. Same as Arrieta. Ended up with a shorter term contract for less money after spring training had already started. JBJ is 31 and this was the very best time to get a multi year deal. I suspect besides the player option the team might also have a buy out. Decent move for the Brew Crew. Cain might be riding the pines and released during the season. I believe it’s the last year of his contract and he has struggled.
The Brewers won’t release Cain. He’s owed 17M this year and 18M next year. They won’t absorb that kind of financial hit..
Why is everyone so down on Cain. Past his prime, sure, but still a valuable player. If they release him he’s getting snatched up in 2 seconds.
I suspect a trade may be in the works, with the Brewers eating a small portion of the contract. No way he’s released…
JBJ on the Brewers makes National League Central race a 2 team race. With basically a 1 year contract he will be especially motivated. Another typical Brewer’s move!
I love the Cubs, Cards, Reds and Brewers in the NLC, fwiw
JBJ doesn’t make a big enough impact to change much of anything
Glad the Braves didn’t sign him. He can’t hit worth a lick and $24M is laughable, especially in this environment.
JBJ had a .900 OPS vs LHP last season, and 2/24 is nothing “in this environment”, just stop lying. If your Braves signed him you’d be singing the opposite story.
So you know me better than I do, got it. Also, CAREER .685 OPS vs lefties unlike you cherry picked small sample size stat. Lol what a clownbag!
Singing? The Braves could be “singing” right now for that price. Obviously they didn’t think the tune was worth that much.
I do take back what I said about Cain while his 19 season was not to his level it wasn’t a complete bust.
I’ll always like JBJ. He’s a good person, played hard, good presence on the team. But he was always swinging for the fences, and far too often that meant striking out. He just never turned into the top of the order hitter he was projected to be. Though we saw bursts of it when he would decide to go the other way instead of trying to pull everything out of the park.
Still, an amazing defender and a solid overall player for his time in Boston. I’ll never forget him throwing the ball from home plate into the center field stands at Fenway. Insane.
good person? laughable.
dpsmith22 –
Man, you have really littered this thread with idiotic comments. One after another. Do you know Bradley Jr. personally? Didn’t think so.
He hit .444 against fastballs last year, a number I personally doubt he can sustain.
Never the less, I digress.
Obviously he’s great defensively, but people mentioning platooning this guy I don’t get. This isn’t Joc Pederson.
As a Cubs fan, i must admit I cringed when I saw Pederson signed with the Cubs. While I don’t hate the guy and I certainly hope he does well for us, when I saw he signed with the Cubs because they were NOT going to platoon him, it was concerning. Looking at his versus LHP slash line, I just don’t see how you can let this guy near the batter’s box with a LHP on the bump.
To be fair, the sample size is small, so you do wonder what he could do if given more opportunities against LHP. As a veteran guy at this point with a little more knowledge of the game, he might be able to craft a little different approach against LHP to have more success.
Obviously most hitters don’t have even splits. If Joc could just figure out a way to even mash against LHP with a halfway decent OBP, that would probably be enough to make him an everyday player.
You are making too much out of this. They will give him a shot at hitting lefties. If he is struggling 2 months into the season, you will start seeing more platoons.
“You are making too much out of this.”
This isn’t a Wendy’s, it’s the MLBTR comments section.
JBJ literally had a .900/.776 LHP/RHP OPS split last year. The platooning stuff is strange. Because of his elite defense, all he has to do to be an everyday player is have a .675 OPS from both sides.
Garcia has a career .812 OPS vs LHP. You don’t play JBJ v lefties simply because you don’t have to.
If there’s an injury, sure, run him out there every day. It’s not dumb to have 4 starting caliber outfielders on hand
you don’t pay 12 mil per for just an ‘everyday player’
He’s an everyday hitter but an amazing defender. That equates to better than everyday
Laughably pathetic .685 CAREER OPS vs lefties but sure, let’s go with the cherry picked small sample size stat.
In case you haven’t noticed, it is extremely common for LHB’s to struggle against LHP’s. Most LHB are “laughably pathetic” in that situation. Bradley also bats roughly 2.5x more often against RHP’s. Why are you making such a big deal about his struggles against lefties? Kinda picking on a smaller sample size stat yourself
@kcj his career ops vs righties is not good either, .752. also, he has 853 ABs vs lefties so you’re just wrong. Face it, he’s just got a good hitter at all.
A’s fan, you are putting way too much stock in one half season of statistics. I agree with you that JBJ is a starter on most teams, but you’re way over emphasizing that .900 number. Stats swing in both directions but tend to regress to a norm. The norm is a more reliably predictable stat.
Cosmo2 –
I have to agree with you there. Not sure why he’s so fascinated with that either. We get it, he had some luck in his 59 ab’s against lefties last year. Over his career however, Bradley has struggled vs. LHP, just like most LHB do.
Not sure why people are hating on Boras.
Based on other deals for second tier outfielders, Bradley got a solid deal.
He ripped the Brewers off bigly
2/24 is not ripping off ANY team. Ever. For any player.
Fairly large exaggeration, but agreed with caviot of any 2.0+ WAR player
A’sfaninUK
March 4, 2021
2/24 is not ripping off ANY team. Ever. For any player
‐——————————————–
Although I’d gladly take 2/24 to play any sport on any team. Giving me that money would be ripping off the team who stupidly gives it to me
But for JBJ it seems a decent deal. Not good, not bad, just decent
You are a MLB player? Who are you?
“Any player” means “any professional baseball player” I just didnt feel like writing all that out, because I assumed it would be obvious what I meant. SIGH
By definition I was a professional. I played in an Independent league, I could certainly hit better than most pitchers and play passable OF D too. But I wouldn’t deserve 5 figures let alone 7 or 8
No need to be so hostile either, it’s a bloody chat board not life or death
A’s fan, your comments here are generally sound but this one is way off the rails crazy. 2/24 is an overpay for MOST players and arguably is for JBJ. I certainly don’t think it’s a rip off, but the argument could be made that it’s too much.
Who should get the money generated by professional baseball?
Augold5 –
2.0 war is 55 games isn’t anything to sneeze at
KCJ: WAR is a bad stat to use for smaller sample sizes as regression to the norm can bring it down over time, as I stated in an earlier comment. For example, after one month in 2018, I think it was, Andrew Jones was at a 0.7 WAR. Projected out that’s like a 3.5 WAR season, but in the end he finished closer to zero.
I was averaging his WAR over his last 5 seasons… only one was below 2
While I did think that your original comment was in reference to his 2 war from last year, FanGraphs “estimates” of $/per war for suggest that a 2 war free agent is worth the contract JBJ just signed.
Cosmo2 –
I understand what you’re saying, however it shouldn’t be overlooked that Andruw Jones was toast by 2018
KCJ, Yes, a completely different situation. Just used it as a example as to how WAR can look very different after a larger sample size is accumulated. For the record, I do think JBJ is a valuable player and I wish my Mets had signed him at that price.
100. I will never understand the hate Boras gets. He is unequivocally, the best at his job……in all of sports. This guy gets his guys paid. All this “well he drives the price up because his guys get paid so much”, is laughable. Scott Boras is a capitalist, in a increasingly socialist society. If I was a good ball player and not a RV supply salesman, he would be my agent, no doubt.
He gets *most* of his guys paid. There are certainly cases where Boras and the player seem to have overplayed their hand and end up settling
I don’t like him because he blatantly lied in the Carter Stewart grievance against the Braves.
As if Boras’ clients wouldn’t get paid without him. Man he’s got so many of you so hoodwinked.
Because he was offered more $$ and another year or two but Bor-ass wanted Springer $$.
So you end up giggling with delight that JBJ doesnt get the most money he could possibly get on an open market? I thoroughly do not understand this vitriol and needing to say “good! boras didn’t get the money he said he would get for his client!” over this.
If he had originally asked for 2 yrs/$24mm on a players options, would he have gotten that? No. You start big and negotiate. Is this really so hard to understand?
eddiemathews, that’s not necessarily true. Asking for more than you’ll get is what amateurs THINK is a good first move, but it isn’t necessarily. Had JBJ just asked for 2/24 initially he’d probably have gotten it. The “ask for ten if you want five” strategy isn’t as sound as many think. Asking for too much can hurt your leverage.
I disagree.
Say a player is worth roughly a million dollars. Several teams are willing to pay that, and, in order to outbid other suitors, possibly pay more. The agent’s opening offer is ten million. Most, if not all teams involved say, “see ya, we’re out of the bidding.” No more bidding war, leverage gone. Had the agent simply asked for a million or slightly more, a bidding war could have pushed the price up, in other words, the player would have had more leverage. The other very high initial ask actually pushes the final price down. The whole, “I’m gonna ask for an amount everyone knows we’ll have to come down from, but it’s my tactic” is a dumb game. Transparent and dumb, in my opinion. The idea that your initial offer, if fair, will automatically be countered by a lesser offer from the team is a false assumption. Ask what you’re worth and many will just give it to you. Ask too much and many just walk away; move on to a different asset. Less suitors equals less leverage which often equates to less money.
Huh?
Who’s going to take on that salary for that production?
They could have gotten JBJ for far less.
Except that Boras’ method produces the best contracts for major league baseball players. So your theory, while pretty, is wrong.
His method doesn’t. That’s the mis-perception. See Stephen Drew. Also we don’t know what, say, JBJ, would have gotten if the initial ask were more reasonable. It is your logic that is faulty. The scenario I painted is apt to the situation.
I don’t HATE Boras. Do I think he’s long-winded and loves the sound of his voice? Yes.
I also think that if he’s your agent, you have to separate your wants/needs from the Boras soap opera and make sure you’re advocating for yourself, because he can cost you money if you aren’t careful. I’m sure Bradley was hoping he would pull the rabbit out of the hat like he did with Hosmer, but that type of deal is probably a thing of the past at this point.
Who has Boras cost money?
In many cases he looks bad, because he places the starting mark very high. And in some cases, he reaches the high mark.
JBJ wasn’t hurt by Boras. He was hurt by a glut of tier two outfielders in the market that have already signed for unimpressive amounts.
2/24 gives him I believe the best deal among the second tier (or second best if you consider Ozuna second tier).
In this market, that’s a win. Frankly, it’s a better value than what the White Sox got out of Adam Eaton, who cost 8 million+.
Lorenzo Cain takes over the Ryan Braun role and Jackie Bradley takes over the Lorenzo Cain role. Avisail becomes the solid 4th OF he probably should have always been. Been clamoring for this since it became clear JBJ wasn’t getting his 4/60 + or whatever he was on about early.
Cain can’t hit well enough to cover Braun’s role
Really? I think he could equal a 101 ops…and he also plays defense
perhaps he can’t match Brauny’s power, but if Cain’s hitting closer to the middle of the lineup, he can def go .290/15/75/15 and no one would be terribly surprised.
This is basically a one year at $12 deal. If he hits well he leaves if he doesn’t he stays. This should improve the defense some, not too sure it improves the offense at all.
Boras and JBJ settled for a cushion contract that they can say isn’t with the players option.
Glad JBJ got a contract
Another over-play by Scott Bor-ass.
why do you care?
I’m doing this from memory, so it could be wrong, but in 2020 Boras negotiated 2 $300mm deals, 5 $200mm deals, and 8 $100mm deals. Maybe it was 6 $100mm deals…not sure. Anyways, he gets his players paid. JBJ could have said he wanted a long-term deal; five years. And Boras said he could maybe get him four years at $8mm per, two years at $10mm per, or a solid one year deal. JBJ said let’s see what’s out there….and this is what was out there. Boras’ clients get paid. He does what he’s paid to do, and does it well.
Nice to see teams in the Central spending a little bit. Cards are the favorite, but I still think this division is up for grabs. 2 year-24 seems like a good deal for JBJ.
There’s so many posters in here who are giggling with delight that Scott Boras got his client $24 million dollars as if its a bad thing to get him more money, which is so bizarre to me. Boras belongs to no team, he just is there to get billionaires to open their wallets, but you guys think that’s worth celebrating that he didn’t get his client like $60 million dollars or something? Why??? Has nothing to do with the game at all!
Exactly. He doesn’t care he didn’t get tons of money. Boras makes enough money from other great players. He still got a good deal if anything
Because some of us think that Boras’ brash and exaggerated style actually hurts some of his mid tier clients and, by extension, the game itself.
A’sfan – You seem like a very irritating person.
Would have been a Met if there was a DH
Probably will have a second shot next offseason.
Brewers > Cardinals
This gives the Brewers a ton of depth in both the IF and OF now. I imagine Cain doesn’t play more than 120 games this season to keep him fresh, plus the 10-15 days off for Yelich and JBJ and Garcia will still start 70+ games and get 300+ ab this season. If JBJ hits something like .250/.425/.745 with his def this will be well worth it.
A great move by the Brewers, not so hot for Bradley jr and Boras.
May all our “failures” turn out so well.
Cain is still a top 5 CF in the game and an exceptional base runner at the top of the order. Where you folks get off saying he’s moving to bench has me baffled. The dude has arguably the best jump and ability to read the ball off the bat, and routinely snags gems that would otherwise be homers. He’s a starter on my team for sure.
I don’t know the full reason for picking up JBJ, but I’d guess it’s to push Garcia who didn’t thrill so far, and is most certainly a quality depth piece which is what the rest of the league is also accumulating. If anything, it makes me worry that they don’t have much faith in our AAA outfield prospects who are about to wilt on the vine if they don’t get their shot at the bigs soon.
At 35, Cain is not playing more than 120 games. I think this has more to do with keeping him fresh than worries ab Taylor/Ray. Taylor has looked fine in his brief stints and will be a solid 5th OF
You’re right, he’s not going to the bench, but in fairness you can’t say for sure he’s a top five CFer. He’s now 35 and basically missed a season, with his last really good year being in 2018 when he was 32. He could still catch the ball in 2019, but the bat regressed significantly.
It’ll be interesting though, because if he bounces back, he likely remains the better overall CFer compared to Bradley. Be interesting to see how they deploy the two.
Regardless, the Brewers are stronger today than they were yesterday.
Buddy… he won a gold glove in 2019…….. quite better and more valuable than being able to “still catch a ball”
At least someone is stepping up to challenge the Cards in the Central. The rest of the division certainly isn’t.
Because the cardinals did so much in the off-season?
Redsux are the new Marlins. You hate to see it.
Solid defense up the middle. Good deal for Milwaukee.
Still a lot of money for a one win player. Equals 1000 soldiers. Did you see where military bases are opening food pantries for military families who cannot make rent or buy food on $24 k a year with spouses in Iraq and Afghanistan? Something wrong with this.
Before saying he is a 1 WAR player, did ever occur to you to, you know, actually look it up? Or does being wrong not bother you?
1.3 in 2019 and .2 in 2020? 2021 projection is 1.4. His trends are downward. He is not a 2 win player. Also his drc + is below average the last 3 years. He grades out as a slightly below average player.
Also WAR is a dumb stat, Bradley is average at best..
You have to include dWAR lol his ovl WAR has averaged a little over 2 the last 3 years
Baseball Prospectus as reference. WARP and DRC. Other sources show ops+ declining over last three years. Projections based on defense and speed also don’t account for leg injuries. He is on the wrong side of 30.
Diggy, average is about 2.4 WAR. 0 WAR is replacement level, in other words, well BELOW average. JBJ is a somewhat above average player and the stats reflect this generally
JBJ had a 2.1 bWAR in 2020, in 55 games, and a 1.5 fWAR. Again, did it occur to you to check the numbers, or did you check them and decide they didn’t fit your point?
Diggydugler5 hours ago
Also WAR is a dumb stat, Bradley is average at best..
=========================================================
Gain, this is illogical. Even if you disregard WAR, he has an OPS+ of 101 over the past 6 years, and a top-tier defensive player. If someone is average in one category, and great in the other category, he has to be an above-average player.
That’s beyond discussion.
Well, one win and one WAR are actually very different things.
Cat got your tongue Joe?
No idea what that means.
Jackie Bradley Jr. could be the difference maker for the Brewers in what looks to be a tight 4-team race with the Cubs, Cardinals and Reds for the NL Central crown.
The Cubs??? They will be 4th place. Cardinals probably have the best chance this season so I think it goes Cards, Reds Brewers, Cubs
So, you THINK the Cubs will be in 4th place, not the Cubs WILL be in 4th place.
Part of the problem here is that people think they know, then confuse a future reality with what they think.
Just picking on you to make a point.
I know I’m annoying.
Yes I say I “think” because what if for some reason several Cardinals(or other teams in the division) players die or are injured for half the season
Oh damn, death might be a little extreme lol
I’m just leaving it open to possibilities, and while there are players in the MLB that I hate, I don’t wish they would die. I’m not one of those people….
Never even thought Milwaukee was a possibility. I thought LoCain had it locked down, both the outfield and the highlight reel
This just in, JBJ lifetime OPS+ is 94. Three years over 100.
JDLM lifetime OPS+ is 102. Also, three years over 100.
Rings? One to Zero.
Good signing for the Brewers.
It is a good pickup for the Brewers for the price and years.
Bradley gives platoon flexibility and depth while providing gold glove caliber D.
Their defense up the middle is going to be a LOT better this year with Wong and Bradley on board.
For that deal you would think the Mets would have jumped in. They would have looked real good with Bradley’s glove in center.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a trade in the works for one of the other outfielders. My guess would be Cain maybe to the Mets they could use a CF.
OK….
The Mets could have signed Bradley for 50% less then Cain is due, but now they’re going to trade players to get Cain?
Yea, makes no sense. Mets ain’t trading for Cain.
The most important aspect is this keeps Garcia from reaching 550PAs, and thusly his 3rd year will not be vested.
Always a good idea to keep an eye on the money, but I don’t think spending this much on JBJ was exactly meant to “save” money on Garcia’s contract next year
I suppose that all but ends any chance Brauny comes back for one final ride…
Nice to see that half this board is personally responsible for paying Jackie Bradley’s salary. It’s a good signing since he is better than what they currently had and they are not locked in long-term. If he got 12m or 9m or 15m – who cares? Brewers can afford it and it isn’t my money.
The central is a 4 team race and basically comes down to which 2020 players who stunk (Bryant, Baez, Yelich, Suarez, etc.) bounce back and general baseball luck/randomness.
1000 soldiers at war paid $24 k equals one player while their families are in poverty. We remain at war while these families couldn’t afford a game ticket. I think that is just wrong.
No one cares, were here to talk baseball, nit politics
Also your math is wrong lol
24,000 times 1,000 equals 24,000,000.
Do you know how to use a calculator augold?
Salaries are not paid all at once. That would be 500 soldiers paid 48k over two years. Also, dont blame MIL or MLB. Its not like they are supplying charity for these players, its all from expected profit from tv deals and fans. So yes… ik how to use a calculator lol
In nurse follars –
No one on this baseball comment board gives a crap that keep spewing out of your mouth. The same crap, over and over and over. Enough already….go find a rooftop somewhere to preach from, not a baseball comment section. Good god
That’s $24M that should have been spent on pitching. The Brewers are the best at misallocating their limited resources.
What starter were we gonna sign for 12M AAV that would have made our staff that much better?
What pitchers were available at that price? The Brewers have been down that road before: Jeff Suppan, Kyle Lohse, Randy Wolf, Matt Garza….None of those deals worked out. Mid-level starters always seem to be overpaid.
Top Jimmy doesn’t know how to read statistics on pitching staffs. Top Jimmy doesn’t understand that the Brewers staff is in the top half of the league. Top Jimmy doesn’t get that adding a couple of gold glove quality defenders (Wong, Bradley) will help improve the above average pitching staff even further.
Jackie Bradley Jr. and Scott Boras beat the projections of MLB Trade Rumors (two years, $16 million), FanGraphs’ Craig Edwards (two years, $18 million), and FanGraphs Median Crowdsource (two years, $20 million).
Boras worked his magic again by reportedly starting his demands well above the projections.
The Brewers signed him to that contract. Doesn’t that make him worth it? Obviously both parties agreed. I don’t understand
No it doesn’t necessarily make him worth it. Not sure what you’re not understanding. People sometimes pay too much for things. It happens.
If the Brewers were going to pay more than 10 million on a FA they could have went to 15 a year for Odorizzi. Pitching is a bigger need than a defense only OF. This is going to bite Stearns like all the other 1 year signings he made last year.
Odorizzi is mediocrity personified. In two of the last four years, he has been below replacement level, and in another he was league average. At 15M–if he would even sign for that–I would pass, The Brewers lack outfield depth because their minor league system is devoid of true prospects. Bradley isn’t a star, but he provides insurance in the event that Cain is in decline and Garcia doesn’t bounce back.
Good player. Hope he turns heads there and get more next year. Only wish Sox would’ve signed him instead of Renfoe But it is what it is. Brewers will be happy with him.
But I thought he was guaranteed to sign with the Red Sox because they didn’t trade him!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
He was never guaranteed to come back. A QO for him would have been dumb.
People on here kept saying the Red Sox didn’t trade him at the deadline because it would have made it uncomfortable for him to come back. And @AtlSoxFan even said that trading him would be viewed as retribution for him protesting that one game. Well he didn’t come back anyway!
Counsell is a liar. They didn’t sign him for 24m NOT to play CF.
Exactly. If he’s not playing CF his value drops drastically. His bat is not good enough for a corner OF.
Exactly. If he’s not playing CF his value drops drastically. His bat is not good enough for a corner OF. And his defensive value is in CF.
Yep. JBJ’s value is 100% tied into his playing CF. Just like Realmuto. His value is as a catcher. At another position his value plummets.
I have to agree with you there is something going on with this signing being made.
Finally a baseball executive says what I have been saying for years. Pujols lied about his age. He is actually several years older than what he portrayed. The Angels should void the contract and sue him for fraud.
“Finally somebody is saying without actual evidence what I’ve been saying without actual evidence for years!” Voiding a contract would require said evidence. Can’t void a contract cuz some loudmouth shouts their speculation as if it were known fact.
I do like the salary deferral (with out knowing what that is.. yet) gives some financial security for the player and keeps the near term salary down.
JBJ must be a good club house guy in addition to his D. Me thinks his offense numbers
look way below average to be paid this much, especially if a platoon develops..
Lets hope a trade is in the works for Cain or Garcia, because the young talent in the OF
will never have a chance to see the field.
The boy wonder strikes again.
Unfortunately, the young talent in the OF never materialized. Taylor is 27 and Ray is 26, and neither has done anything in the minors.
What young talent? Lutz and Mitchel are not ready yet, Ray and Taylor are far from starting caliber at this point and both are 26+
This is most likely a one-year deal. Lutz and Mitchell need at least a year before they’re ready. Ray has been a complete bust and at 27, is a non-factor. Taylor is a 4th outfielder and missing out of a year on a 4th outfielder is of little consequence. Signing Bradley does not effect the Brewers young OF talent in any way
Good for him. He doesn’t have a big bat, but his glove and clutch hits helped the Dox on the post season. I wish him well.
How many guessed that JBJ would sign with MIL? I’m sure they were subjected to heavy criticism for the prediction.
Dont understand the hate on this sign that ive been seeing
Brewers had to overpay a little since its a 1 year deal and an option. They did the same thing with Grandal.
They did not give him a mega deal and im happy for that. But with the decline of Cain offensively and the fact he may slide into the new “Braun role” of playing sparingly, this makes total sense.
Plus, he will love hitting in miller park
You can always trade him at the deadline if the season goes south too and get some nice pieces back. Every contender needs a guy like JBJ come playoff time
Trade him where? Not many teams wanted him before.
I dont see too many balls finding alleys or bloop singles dropping in with this defense. Will help the meh pitching staff tremendously.
Not sure what you mean about “meh pitching staff”. The pitching staff is what carried them into the playoffs last year. They have quite a few under the radar prospects coming up quick to bolster it even more. That bullpen is one of the better ones right now. If you said meh offense, I would have to agree based on last years showing.
As a red sox fan that has watched EVERY GAME this guys been in all i can say its about time!, he was truly someone you just never felt was ‘right’ with the team, never a good hitter and by no measure was he an ‘elite’ defender, i know sites wanna say he was, but 90% of what he caught was nothing more than fly balls hit at him, yes sometimes he made a SPECTACULAR save and catch that would define the game, which i saw both in person and on tv, but following that everynight with 3 strikeouts got old, im more surprised he was on the team as long as he was. Im just glad they finally cut bait, im also glad this forum isnt filled with people saying how amazing he was, Great guy, great smile, amazing leader with an electric personality, all true. Below to semi average baseball player, Had some AMAZING saves and catches, but hes not the guy you build a team around, i admittedly dont know much about the brewers, i just hope hes not their lead off hitter.
Highly likely he’s back on the market next offseason after collecting $13M this year, but he has built in protection if he gets injured with the $11M for 2022. Nice deal.
Brewers love to do this. Get guys for spots they already have covered. They are on such a tight budget that Hader has been rumored in trades for three years straight, but they have money for this move. So weird.
Mil 21 Payroll at 89 mill right now
53 mill to 4 OF in Cain Yelich Bradley Garcia
60%…. Its certainly interesting for a small (ish) market …..
Perhaps Cain for Familia works for NYM and Mil now?
Why would Milwaukee want Familia? As a rule, you don’t move an everyday player for a one-inning pitcher (especially a bad one-inning pitcher). If the Brewers were to move Cain, they can do much better than that.
Good Q Cey……..I was expecting it as well
Answer – To get outta the 17 mill Cain is owed next year
Familia is expiring after this year , its basically 2 bad underwater contract swaps
Mil loves those live arms in the pen as well in bulk…Im not so sure Cain will even be more valuable than Familia (whoes good when on ) this year tbh… Not sure Mets even have faith in Cain but the CF fit makes sense … Cain has negative value as well so this proposal would be about as good as it gets to unload him imo … More of an accounting/fit/money trade than a talent trade …they do happen ; think Kemp back to Dodgers trade
What about Betances’ $6M instead of Familia’s $11M?
Re Cain at this stage of his career, Nimmo is bad defensively but I wouldn’t sit him for a declining glove. The Mets’ problem is no DH. If they get a real CF (not Cain), it would force them to sit an important everyday bat (Alonso, Smith, or Nimmo). Dreadful as Nimmo’s defense is, they probably should ride it out until at least the trade deadline.
With all the athleticism in today’s game, it’s odd how there are so few quality CFs. Chris Taylor would be the starting CF on quite a few teams, which will make him an intriguing FA next winter.
I believe the upcoming amateur draft is loaded with top SS prospects. It might be time to start converting some of these guys into CFs or at least OFs. The Dodgers are doing that with McKinstry.
Betances is fine, Brew prolly kicks in 4 mill for 2022 then but same trade basically
If Im the Mets, Im looking at what Cain provides between the ears just as much as on the field.
I don’t believe they have a player with *much (late) postseason exp to date – He’s also a pretty good fit (If he’s still the old Cain/big if I know ) Hes always been a great great great clubhouse guy
I would never worry about being (tooo) deep, things tend to work themselves out naturally
**On a different note- I totally agree with the lack of good CF in the game today- Dodgers were brave, brilliant, and bold moving a gold glove 1B off a position to CF….It has worked masterfully and I believe we will see another gold glove from Belli very soon in CF as well . I myself was always a guy that was able to play pretty much 7 outta the 8 starting defensive positions on any given day….I always found CF too be the most difficult position to play/gauge/master thats why I find it so amazing what Bellis doing right now and sooo quick !!
Also for the first post…Cain , barring the Dh , will not be f/t unless they plan on getting Avi Garcia fit for a 1b glove soon which might interfere with Hiura potentially –
I wouldn’t be shocked if there was a corresponding move by Mil be4 OD
Mil is smart, the 60% doesn’t make total sense to me, but the puzzle might not be completed yet… I wanna wait and see before I analyze this Bradley signing completely. Far as Mets, they just seemed most logical fit and might have some extra money to burn whereas most teams dont today… Id easily chose “field” over just them tho if in fact they were looking to offload Cain
To get the best of Cain, he needs a couple days off a week. When he’s fresh, he’s a better hitter. As a Brewer fan, This deal was more about insurance. Garcia was terrible last year. Throughout his career he’s been good one year and bad the next so they didn’t want to rely so heavily on those two. Now they don’t have to. Personally I like Tyrone Taylor a lot but he’s already in his late 20’s and he still has an option. I could see a trade of either Cain or Garcia at some point to help somewhere else but I think they’ll have Cain, Bradley and Garcia rotate in the two of spots. Don’t forget Yelich has some back issues that flare up a few times a year. He’s not a guy who’ll play 160 games. More like 145-150.
There’s zero chance Garcia moves to 1B unless something happens to Hiura. They need to find AB’s for Vogelbach with no DH and he’ll get some time at 1B against tough RH. I think this signing might be bad news for Travis Shaw. unless he clearly wins the 3B job. Bradley gives them the LH bat to go along with Yelich, Wong and Narvaez. which means less of a need for LH bat at 3B
I’m watching today’s game and sitting far enough away from the screen that I have to squint to see the information rolling across the bottom of the screen and I see JBJ got $2.4M for 2 years and I think to myself “that’s a bit high” but good for JBJ. Upon further review I see that is says $24M!!!!! Holy crap did Boras have a gun to the head of the GM in Milwaukee?
Bloom was an idiot when he paid $11 after years and years of bad hitting. JBJ finally doesn’t have a bad year so it’s one decent year out of 8 and Boras gets him $12M a year? Tell me that guy doesn’t earn his money!!! Wholly crap that’s insane money for a one dimensional player. The only way to justify that kind of money for JBJ is if he’s playing in Yellowstone!!!
I’ve always like JBJ so I’m happy for him but somebody needs to check to see if the Milwaukee GM and Owner have been taking the same brain boosters that Henry and Bloom have been taking!!! WOW!!!
You lost me when you said 1.2M AAV was a good deal. Are you dense? My god. Name a 31yo OF who won a GG has been an AS that got a deal that low… wow
Are you dense? Seriously. I’ve watched the guy fail for 8 years. Next time read what I write so you don’t make an ass of yourself. His replacement value is $1M. Let me say this in a way someone like you can comprehend….. HE IS WORTH NO MORE THAN $1M because he is a defensive replacement for late in the game. NO TEAM SHOULD START A PLAYER WHO HITS UNDER .240 FOR OVER HALF THE MONTHS DURING HIS 8 YEAR CAREER.
The Red Sox should have sent him packing or used him as a late inning replacement during his controllable years. That way they didn’t blow so much money the last couple of years for a one dimensional player!!!
FYI… the ONE All=Star appearance was a joke. Steven Wright also made it that year which speaks volumes to the credibility of the selection process. JBJ hit .267 and like every other year until 2020 his OBP was under .350. Voted an All-Star ONCE in EIGHT seasons, great argument!! The same with ONE golden glove award in 8 seasons.
Value is based on performance not accolades. Accolades are often political not performance based. JBJ raised his lifetime average to .239 after hitting .283 in 2020. That’s 7 years of crap hitting and 1 partial year of not sucking.
You think a 31 year old who couldn’t hit in his 20s is suddenly going to hit in his 30s? And his defense is going to get better as he exits his prime years?
Ramon Laureano makes $575,000 this year.
I rest my case.
He’s better than JBJ, he’s younger than JBJ, He throws better than JBJ. He’s faster than JBJ. He’s just ONE example of a sub $1M CF who sets the REPLACEMENT VALUE for JBJ. Laureano is more experienced than Duran but if Duran can hit .240 3 of the 6 months during 2021 he’s already better than JBJ offensively. If he makes two extra errors, I’ll take him over JBJ in a heartbeat.
Someone who thinks Bloom is an idiot doesn’t have a case.
KD, your entire argument is based on one very faulty and incomplete stat: batting average. Therein lies your misunderstanding. Can’t judge a players offense solely on batting average.
Did you seriously use a pre-arb salaried player in this argument?? Also he is better than replacement, thats what WAR literally measures. Lastly BA is a lazy stat to use. His career OPS or even OPS+ is better than lg average and 31 is not that old anymore given modern training regimens. So if no team should start a player who is lg average at hitting (ignoring any other aspect of the game) than half the league shouldn’t start. Idk why I am wasting my time arguing with someone who obviously knows nothing about baseball
Also errors are not how defensive(especially OF defense) is measured. You lack even basic baseball stat knowledge. Where did you learn the game playing MLB the Show??
Judging a hitter on batting average alone… a CF based on errors… I think someone got lost on their way to talk radio
See your response is typical of the new metric generation. It lacks comprehension of the game. Let’s see what does average impact?
First, number of doubles, triples and home runs. The less hits by definition the less of the three categories combined with singles. If less hits then less times on base because the walks are based on pitches out of the strike zone you shouldn’t swing at. Consequently, if walks are a given, they are irrelevant to the discussion of hitting. Walking has nothing to do with your swing, your ability to hit a baseball which is the fundamental premise of offense and most importantly it has nothing to do with the success of the hitter if you assume a hitter will walk the same number of times whether he get 100 hits of 5 hits.
So, given a choice between a guy hitting .239 or .280 I will always take the .280 hitter because it’s easier to teach strike zone control over hand eye coordination.
Cosmo2 – As I read each of your responses I realize how little you know about baseball. Errors and batting average are two key fundamentals of baseball. You may want to put a glove on sometime or pick up a baseball bat so we can talk intelligently about the game. As of right now, you seem to be nothing more than a metrics guy who doesn’t understand the formulas and their shortcomings.
So given a choice between multiple stats you choose to base your conclusions on just one? What kind of science is that? You’d take a guy batting .280 with 10 HRs and a .315 OBP over a .235/20/.400 guy? You’ve no leg to stand on, your argument is baseless and hollow. You realize your antiquated ideas would be laughed at by every GM in the sport?
All the metrics, stats, analysis etc that we have and you base your understanding of the game on just two stats without any qualifying or perspective and you think I’m the one who needs to be schooled? Ridiculous. No front office would agree with your methods
Cosmos2 – You are missing the point. If you have a hitter hitting .280 he will walk the same amount whether he hits .280 or .239. You take the .280 hitter obviously.
If you want to debate whether it’s easier to get a .239 hitter to jump his average from .239 to .280 or teach a player whose walk factor is 0.050 to be 0.091 I will tell you it easier to teach plate discipline than hand eye coordination.
If your ridiculously rudimentary comment is that a higher OBP is better than a less one, I say to you … thank you Einstein.
This seems an overpay to me. He’s been a below average hitter in each of the last 3 full seasons, and his stats were skewed in a small sample size last year with an unusually high BAbip. If he sucks, he will take $24m from the Brewers over two years. If he is good, he will take his $13m this year and walk. Brewers take on all the risk with this deal.
If he’s good, wont the Brewers still benefit?? Also where are you getting below average from? Average OPS is around .710. He has averaged a shade over .730 OPD playing stellar D at a premium position.
Augold5 – Clueless wonder, you have no idea what you are talking about. First, if you want to brag about OPS use OPS+ jackass and his is 94 for his career. Since you don’t know crap about what you are talking about here is what that means…… he sucks. 100 is average. So for his 8 year career he’s considered below average as a hitter. His batting average shows he can’t make contact and be successful. His OPS is made up of a .239 batting average and a .082 ability to walk. His ONLY redeemable quality is he can walk like an average Joe. He’s not as bad on the walking side of OBP that he is on the hitting side.
Whoopee lets pay the guy $12M.
Also, moron, REPLACEMENT VALUE is exactly that. What would it take to get an equivalent player to play Center Field for your team. If a controllable player can do it then your team doesn’t have to pay $12M and my example of the Oakland As excellent young player who is controllable establishes that JBJ’s replacement value is $1M or less. I don’t care what he’s achieved in his career all I care about is can I find the equivalent total package for a better price. The answer is yes.
There are 30 teams in baseball who all have multiple CFers in their organization and each one of them not in the majors may represent an equivalent set of skills with better hitting and slightly less fielding. Duran is a perfect example. He will be a far better player than JBJ in the future because he can hit far better than JBJ. His defense is excellent but is slightly less than JBJ and his COST is insignificant to what Boston paid JBJ in recent years.
All teams should consider their alternatives and find the Pillar type players who play CF to get a cheaper solution and if you want to minimize costs, find the excellent hitting young CF in another organization and trade for them. It will also cost less than $12M!!!
Number #1 jbj hater people lmao
I don’t understand all the hate his only advance metric for his career thats below average is SO% and its 4% higher. Thats 20SO over a 500AB season. You’re telling me that one SO every 8 games more than average is soooo terrible lol. His OBP is still higher than average even with the added SOs. He’s not being paid to be a top of the order hitter. He’s getting paid to be an average hitter and to play stellar defense at a premium position
It amazes me how some fans care so little about defense, particularly up-the-middle defense. Getting Wong and Bradley and Wong in one off-season is quite a nice haul.
Oops, make that just one Wong.
Two Wongs don’t make a right? … sorry, sorry, couldn’t resist
His D is very good and, yes, at a premium position. But stellar? His D is being a bit overrated here.
There is a lack of quality defensive CFs these days. Bradley is among the best. CF and C are the hardest two positions to fill. Very few teams are solid at both.
Who plays better OF def and is being paid less than JBJ? Pre arb excluded
You hit it on the head. Boston screwed up. As a pre-arb or an arb he should have been converted into a defensive replacement and the .239 batting average could have been replaced with a .280 to .300 hitter and the Red Sox would have won more games!!
Remember a very key stat. Take Bradley’s fielding and compare it to league average. 2 ERROR difference. Let’s say it was 10 (5 times reality) he still isn’t worth the lost batting average of his replacement. He is a late inning replacement ONLY. He has been for 8 years but Boston never gave up hope that he would hit one day so they hurt their team by making him a starter not a late inning replacement. Then, he finally has an acceptable year hitting and they let him go!!! So typical of this GM and Ownership group.
How many .280 or .300 hitters are signing 2/24M dollar deals?? You’re living in fantasy land
Augold5 – Drugs? Are you taking drugs before writing your comments? Your question is irrelevant. Who cares? That’s not what the discussion is about.
JBJ costs money. In 2020 he got $11M which was far above his value. What is the market for a CF with his OPS+? Well lets look at some of them on the highest payroll teams!
Cody Bellinger – Paid $16.1M with career OPS+ 141 about 50 points higher and just $4.1M more than JBJ and his OPS+ of 94
Aaron Hicks – Paid $10.5M by the Yankees who normally overspend. His OPS+ 108 means he is a bad choice for that much money but he’s still cheaper than JBJ!!
Brandon Nimmo – Paid $4.7M by the Mets OPS+ 130 5 years of service
I’d rather have Nimmo than JBJ especially when you look at cost.
Odubel Herrera – Paid $10.35M by Philly OPS+ 102 5 years of service again a better deal than JBJ but totally overpaid. Both Roman Quinn and Adam Haseley are paid 535K by Philly and both have performed better than JBJ in limited major league time. Philly needs to rid themselves of Herrera like Boston did with JBJ. Clearly, fools like Milwaukee and you would still go after him!!
These two back-up CFers are precisely why paying JBJ and Herrera over $10M is absurd. My point ONCE AGAIN is that you can find a player who will be paid under $1M and not take a step down in total skill.
Mike Trout – Paid $37.1M OPS+176 after 10 years. Here is an example of the type of player who deserves the money he makes unlike JBJ or Herrera.
Victor Robles – Paid $575K for Washington. They dumped their JBJ equivalent and replaced him with a controllable player costing under $1M.
Trent Grisham – Paid $575K for San Diego. They dumped their JBJ equivalent and replaced him with another controllable player costing under $1M.
Can you see the pattern yet? The Phillies had two great replacements waiting in the wings and most teams have at least one waiting in the wings to lessen the cost of CF play. The Red Sox and the Brewers both could have identified those players and traded for them or promoted them from within as is the case of Duran in Boston and sufficiently replaced JBJ. More offense and less defense. Not bad defense, just less defense. More offense? Possibly much, much more offense.
Here is the lesson you need to learn. Paying premium prices for players like Trout is completely justifiable because there are plenty of other roster spots that can be filled for $1M or less that are close enough to average or slightly below average players like JBJ that it’s financially irresponsible to pay big bucks for JBJ or Herrera. JBJ is especially bad because he has an 8 year track record of sucking at hitting. Trends that long don’t lie.
@augodl5 Too many clowns look at things like a .239 batting average. and because they don’t know anything bleat that JBJ must be awful.
In fact he was a 2 win player at CF in 2019, and pro rated to an impressive 5.7 WAR in 2020. That last was obviously fueled by luck (a .343 BABIP for the year, vs 298 for his career), but if you normalize that he still had a good year, a 2-3 win year.
2/24m is a respectable deal, though the opt-out obviously adds some value to Bradley. Still, he has some upside. A 3-win, even a 4-win season isn’t out of the question, and his defense, baserunning, and willingness to take a walk along with respectable durability suggests he should hold up in 2021, even though age 31 is often the time when CFers fall apart.
Still, my team, the Mets, should certainly have picked him up. They needed a solid 2+ win CFer badly, and were already willing to spend 2/6.5m just for a backup OFer.
Wasn’t expecting the Brewers.
David Stearns and the Brewers franchise are a clear cut example of why the “Wunderkind” Theo Epstein’s way of building a team is absolutely wrong. Epstein took over a Cubs franchise that already had cornerstones Kyle Hendricks and Javier Baez in the system and a few solid trading chips at the MLB level. Tanking for draft picks while aggravating the fans of a big market team like the Cubs while trading away every decent player in an effort to build a championship caliber team was a waste of time. Yes, they finally got that championship but a few short years later they are back into the same boat only worse. They have bloated untradeable contracts (Heyward, Kimbrel) and an empty farm to offset those contracts. Now the poor Cubs fans are stuck paying high prices for tickets to a team that barely has an offhand chance of the playoffs but doubtful (like every year except those wonderful 3). Next year they will lose Bryant and others maybe getting a comp pick for Bryant but watching the rest walk for nothing. Epstein traded away what should be cornerstone players for a few months of the best closer in the game at the time and what amounted to a solid #4 pitcher. Imagine if the Cubs currently had Gleyber Torres at 2nd and Eloy Jimenez in CF. Plus Dylan Cease in the rotation. Instead they were given away only because the Cubs were a big market team. Stearns would never let blue chip prospects like them just because he could sign players like Heyward or Darvish.
Stearns never let the Brewers completely tank. He held on to his players unless he was able to get overpaid in a trade. Year after year in his rebuild he still put a competitive team on the field. He never chased high priced free agents and made shrewd trades like Lucroy, Smith, Segura, Gomez, Parra, Thornberg, Jeffress, and Gallardo. You can’t say he was beaten on any of those trades and in the long run he won the overwhelming majority. Only trading 2 blue chip prospects (both acquired in trades) for Yelich. Also, bringing in coveted free agents to give the fans hope (Grandal, Cain, Bradley). He drafted well, and was willing to give players like Shaw and Davies a real chance to stick in MLB. He never gambled on long term contracts or threw away their best prospect for a mere 3 months of a player. His rebuild lasted half the time of a typical Epstein and his team is still a solid contender while the Cubs trade their best pitcher for middling prospects and a mid rotation at best starter. You have to think Stearns would have gotten a way better return for Darvish. Not a single team has given Epstein or his protege a fair trade. Since he overpaid giving up so much for a few months of Chapman the rest of MLB started looking at Epstein for the joke he is. Look at what the Padres have managed to build in a similar timeframe as Epstein had with the Cubs. Epstein was an Ivy League math major. He builds his teams on statistics. Team architects like Stearns, Luhnow and Preller have set the example on how to build a team using the draft by having a keen eye for talent. Cashman and Friedman have set the example of how a big market team should rebuild. Had Epstein done something similar to Cashman the Cubs would still be a contender today. The Cubs need to trade Heyward and Kimbrel for whatever salary relief they can get. Sign every mid rotation arm they can afford next year. Trade Bryant and Rizzo at the deadline for whatever prospects they can get. Talk to Baez, Hendricks and Happ about extensions and trade Contreras to a contender. They can add talent to their farm. Get something for players they are not going to resign next year while also locking up a solid middle infield on the right side of 30 and a solid veteran pitcher to lead the staff. They should see if Contreras would be enough to pry Sanchez and a prospect or two from the Yankees. The Yankees need a field general to finally return to the World Series and Sanchez doesn’t seem to love the game like most pro’s and getting him out of NY will keep the pressure off of him. Paycheck players like Sonny Gray, Jackie Bradley, Sanchez, Cespedes and Heyward never seem to produce unless they are in a contract year. Sanchez will continue to flop until his walk year and then he will turn it up and will sucker a team out of a Realmuto type of contract. His walk year should coincide with the Cubs return to contention. Even if the Ricketts family is indeed as broke as they pretend, if they follow the Stearns model they could be back in the World Series in a couple short years. They have some valuable players right now and if they decide to pay all or a good portion of their contracts they could get premium nearly ready prospects in return. Send his top scouts around AAA to scout players with the AAAA label. Take a roll of the dice on a couple of them like the Yankees did with Urshela, Tautman, Voit and the Brewers did with Shaw. There are a bunch of players stuck at AAA because their position is blocked by a superstar in MLB. A GM that puts scouting first will always win the trades involving players of that caliber. Who knows, maybe they will find the next Voit or Donaldson. Cashman gave up a meh middle relief pitcher in exchange for Voit and since Voit put on his jersey on day 1 he has been patting himself on the back. Hopefully no team is foolish to let Epstein run things ever again. Unless it’s the Red Sox. Would love to see them embark on a 5 year rebuild. Sorry about the novel. Been up for a couple of days and I tend to write novels like this when I am.
Stearns offseason a year ago was abysmal and embarrassing. He’s turned it around this offseason, but let’s stop pretending he has any “model” after the poor decision-making coming off two playoff appearances. Even with this offseason the Brewers still might miss the postseason.
He actually does have a model. Don’t sign middling, getting too old talent to multi-year contracts. Swoop in at the end of free agency and pick up talent, paying market rate, but on a one-year deal. That part of the market just didn’t develop last season.
Except the Cubs have a WS and the Brewers don’t. Being competitive while not getting over the hump is nothing to brag about.
It took the Cubs 100years to win a world series so the Brewer’s have a few more year’s to get there.
@thecoffinnail Yes, Epstein building a WS winning Cubs team for the first time in 100 years was just “wrong.”
ROFL.
After that the Cubs only won 92 then 95 games. What a dismal failure! What a one-hit wonder! They made the postseason both years, fell to 84 wins in 2019 (but with a true talent Pythagorean won loss record of 90-72), then racked up a pro rated 92 wins in 2020.
More failure!
Seriously, friend—get a grip. They’ve been doing fine even with some awful luck, like Bryant going from superstar on a HOF track to just a pretty good regular, or Heyward having an impossible to predict dropoff. The guy’s still winning 90 a year even with some worse than average luck.
Sorry he didn’t win a bunch of WS, though. Clearly the guy’s a loser. A HOFer among execs but, to you, somehow a loser.
—Fwiw you’ll do well to get past your antiquated notions about “field generals” and the like. In this case, catchers are no longer the leaders they once were, and should you actually study the subject you’ll discover that the catchers of postseason teams are no better or worse than their players at other positions.
Holy long comment Batman!
thecoffinnail2 days ago
Epstein took over a Cubs franchise that already had cornerstones Kyle Hendricks and Javier Baez in the system
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According to Baseball Reference, the Cubs acquired Hendricks on 7/31.12.
According to Wiki, Theo joined the Cubs on 10/12/11.
Doesn’t that make Hendriks a Theo acquisition?
Further, doesn’t this then argue the opposite of your point? The Theo basically inherited only one player on which to build?
Just another overpay for a free agent., but in 2021, $13M is chump change anyway. In the long run Bradley won’t make enough of a difference to matter.
Seems a bit overpaid, especially for a team that’s outfield was set enough and JBR wasn’t exactly needed. But oh well, not too much to complain about. I just don’t love seeing bad to avg players getting overpaid.
Regardless of how this Division looks, it’s Cardinals division to lose. Brewers maybe the only other team who could fight for the divisional crown, but I believe Cardinals have it with 88 total wins with Brewers at 85, Cubs 78, Reds 68, and Pirates at 43 wins.
Any kind of rebound from 2 of Yelich, Hiura, Garcia and Narvaez, along with added production at CF from additions of JBJ/Cain and 2B from Wong should put the Brewers higher than 85 wins.
Wow, we need some new MLB news quickly. Well over 300 comments on a JBJ story? You know things are slowing down when that happens!
Brewers are also rumored to have their sights set on Betty Jo Bradley !!
Brewers are also rumored to have their sights set on Shortstop Betty Jo Bradley !! As well as Billie Jo and Bobbie Jo….
You’re aren’t funny. Don’t try. You’re just embarrassing yourself.
Unfortunately for the Brewers, Bradly will strike out way more times than making a catch that a league-average outfielder would have made. If there is such a thing as a ‘clutch hitter’ Bradly is the exact opposite.
His SO rate is 4% higher than average… thats 1 SO every 8 games. Did you even look at stats?
Flat out dumb signing by Brewers management
The Mets with no real CF and a first-baseman with very little outfield experience playing left field will have to answer why they didn’t sign JBJ when he went so cheap and for only 1-2 years.
As a Mets fan I am disappointed because their defense will be their Achilles heel and will keep them from progressing any further in the playoff picture assuming they even make it.
In general of course I am happy they made the Owner, GM, and management switch but they stopped short after some opening good moves and it will cost them for sure.
That being said I will still follow and root for them as I am stuck with it. 🙂
Yea that OF defense is gonna be rough, and add Davis at third… oof
Sandy Alderson acknowledged the Mets defense will be bad but he strangely didn’t seem all too bothered by it. That puts extra stress on a pitching staff knowing they are going to have to get a lot of outs themselves. Also means the offense is going to have to score a lot of runs to make up the difference
Good for him.
Alderson was a buffoon to waste 2/.6.5m-plus on Kevin Pillar when Bradley went for a 12m AAV.
He could have had Bradley for, effectively, 8.75m for 2021.
He could have also signed the KBO’s best player, Ha-Seong Kim, for 2021 for an AAV under 8m. Given Alderson is paying 3.55m for backup Jonathon Villar, he could have upgraded to Kim for around 4m, or upgraded to Gold Glover Kolten Wong for 5m at 2B and in the latter case moved Jeff McNeil to 3B., gaining a projection of 3 wins.
Unbelievable, how incompetence still plagues the Mets. It turns out Steve Cohen is just a pre-Madoff Wilpon. Plenty of money but not enough brains, and no ability to hire a good FO.
Are we sure Kim is such an upgrade over Villar? Plus, Villar is a bench piece. Was Kim gonna sign to be on the bench? Does anyone pay that amount for a bench piece? And what projection has Wong as an upgrade of 3 wins? I doubt he’s even a 3 WAR improvement and one WAR does not equal one win (can’t emphasize that last point enough).